Wilson to Penske ?

[seppefan]

After NHL once again let Wilson down this weekend it is time his management did something. Gearbox or whatever it has become a joke and it is time for JW to move on. How about Helio's seat...bit premature but.Or pop him into a KV car and get CDW back. Remember they loved JW and it looks like AU will not be back as the IRL US centric mangement are unable to see beyond....sorry thats another story.

[nigelred5]

Maybe it's not the just car that's the problem?? Don't get me wrong, I really like JW buuuuut????

I believe I've read that both JW and GR have some issues with fitting comfortably into the Dallara due to their height.

[NickFalzone]

I agree with Nigel, it's too easy to blame the equipment all the time. I look at Will Power's mistake and honestly some of these are just rookie mistakes as they're still getting comfortable with the car.

[bravefish]

Wouldnt write NHL off too quickly... it wont be long before they are challenging for the championship...

[seppefan]

Maybe it's not the just car that's the problem?? Don't get me wrong, I really like JW buuuuut????

I believe I've read that both JW and GR have some issues with fitting comfortably into the Dallara due to their height.

I agree that drivers often make excuses but do not remember Justin doing that. The team admit they had a geerbox problem at Surfers ( as they have had at most races this year ..) and they shortfuelled him, got the calulation wrong.......unless Justin should tell them how much to put in. Look at the stats, he overtook more cars than any other driver while setting the fastest or second fastest lap.

[F1boat]

Well, he won a race this year, that's not bad.

[Mad_Hatter]

...The team admit they had a geerbox problem at Surfers ( as they have had at most races this year ..) and they shortfuelled him, got the calulation wrong.......unless Justin should tell them how much to put in. Look at the stats, he overtook more cars than any other driver while setting the fastest or second fastest lap.

Here's my take,

Reportedly NHL have had personnel changes all year long, along with the Davey Hamilton incident, and the passing of PLN, they've been through alot. Complaints of too many work hours, weekends, and the like have left them with people quitting I heard somewhere(can't remember where). Their hard work has been rewarded with two wins and multiple front row starts on RCs and Graham at Milwaukee. Reliability problems arise in a more competitive atmosphere also. Bearing failures, suspension failures, engine failures, etc...


Justin's always a favorite, but I think it'd be a mistake for him to jump ship now. The group at NHL is too good to be off pace on ovals for long. Also, to be honest I doubt JW has enough oval experience to slot into a Penske Seat, if there is one.

[SarahFan]

Wilson would be avery solid fit at Penske...

with that said....wheteher it happens or not remains to be seen.... is it on the table?probably not...

at this point I expect Helio to be in his seat next year.....

[NickFalzone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Helio's trial most likely taking place halfway to 2/3rds through the season, wouldn't that be an issue for scheduling? It would make it difficult to attend races while that's going on. Do they just replace him for those races, or what?

Also, as a big Helio fan, I would like to see him in the car all season, but there are some significant challenges ahead.

[dataman1]

Here's my take,

Reportedly NHL have had personnel changes all year long, along with the Davey Hamilton incident, and the passing of PLN, they've been through alot. Complaints of too many work hours, weekends, and the like have left them with people quitting I heard somewhere(can't remember where). Their hard work has been rewarded with two wins and multiple front row starts on RCs and Graham at Milwaukee. Reliability problems arise in a more competitive atmosphere also. Bearing failures, suspension failures, engine failures, etc...


Justin's always a favorite, but I think it'd be a mistake for him to jump ship now. The group at NHL is too good to be off pace on ovals for long. Also, to be honest I doubt JW has enough oval experience to slot into a Penske Seat, if there is one.

The correct name of the mechanic killed in Indy was Davey Evans.

[SarahFan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Helio's trial most likely taking place halfway to 2/3rds through the season, wouldn't that be an issue for scheduling? It would make it difficult to attend races while that's going on. Do they just replace him for those races, or what?

Also, as a big Helio fan, I would like to see him in the car all season, but there are some significant challenges ahead.

does he have to be in the courtroom?.... I honestly don't know the answer


but with the court allowing him to race in Austarlia it certainly puts the Canada races in less risk for helio.....and if the lawyers can schedule the trial for after the 09' season (would it really be that hard?) then i expect to see helio in the car for 09'..... depending on the outcome 010' is certainly in jeoprady IMO

[NickFalzone]

There was a lawyer on Curt Cavin and Kevin Lee's radio show a couple weeks ago that spoke about this. His opinion was that the Australia leeway meant good news for other international races in 09, considering as well that they are all going in the opposite direction of Brazil in each case. But he did say that Helio would need to be present for the court hearings. Also if you ask me, Helio may do well in swaying the jury.

[Mad_Hatter]

The correct name of the mechanic killed in Indy was Davey Evans.

Sorry. Thanks for correcting me.

[nigelred5]

It wouldn't be out of question to find the defense asking for a continuance or two, more than a couple evidentiary hearings, motions for dismissal, etc. All tactics to delay trial and possibly work towards a plea bargain in such a case. I would also take into consideration that most of his actual "work hours" take place on the weekends so it wouldn't be impossible to still be in the car during the season. It's not totally unheard of for a defense team to request a time frame for a trial to start in a high profile white collar type trial.

[Ranger]

After NHL once again let Wilson down this weekend it is time his management did something. Gearbox or whatever it has become a joke and it is time for JW to move on. How about Helio's seat...bit premature but.Or pop him into a KV car and get CDW back. Remember they loved JW and it looks like AU will not be back as the IRL US centric mangement are unable to see beyond....sorry thats another story.

A solid debut season with a race win means that this rumour is stupid.

NHL are certain to move up the grid next year, as are most ex-Champ Car teams.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I think Justin did alright this year, Graham was usually faster but he made a lot of mistakes. They both won a race and in my book that's great performance for a transition year. However, Bourdais said he has options in America should he not get a new F1 contract, and I doubt he'd go to another team. And I think if that happens, Justin woukd get the boot.

[Chamoo]

I think Justin did alright this year, Graham was usually faster but he made a lot of mistakes. They both won a race and in my book that's great performance for a transition year. However, Bourdais said he has options in America should he not get a new F1 contract, and I doubt he'd go to another team. And I think if that happens, Justin woukd get the boot.

What are the odds that Bourdais would return to a 3-car NHL team? I know it's wishful thinking, but NHL doesn't seem like the team to dump a talent like Wilson under any circumstances.

[V12]

What are the odds that Bourdais would return to a 3-car NHL team? I know it's wishful thinking, but NHL doesn't seem like the team to dump a talent like Wilson under any circumstances.

The pessimist in me says that the team might struggle more for sponsorship, certainly enough for 3 cars, now that Newman is no longer around. But I hope I'm misinformed on that one. I heard that the McDonald's sponsorship when it first started (2003/4?) was a low-key token nod to PN's salad dressings being used by them. Has their involvement developed more into an actual title sponsorship deal? The car being painted all red with bigger McD logos in the past two years would suggest yes, but I wouldn't know.

[Will Rogers]

A solid debut season with a race win means that this rumour is stupid.

It never ceases to amaze me what people will say when they have no idea what they're talking about.

I'd be careful flinging the word "stupid" around when it might end up sticking where you don't want it to...

[MDS]

Here's my take,

Reportedly NHL have had personnel changes all year long, along with the Davey Hamilton incident, and the passing of PLN, they've been through alot. Complaints of too many work hours, weekends, and the like have left them with people quitting I heard somewhere(can't remember where). Their hard work has been rewarded with two wins and multiple front row starts on RCs and Graham at Milwaukee. Reliability problems arise in a more competitive atmosphere also. Bearing failures, suspension failures, engine failures, etc...


Basically a lot of people weeded themselves out at NHL. I'm not sure how many people left, but I know a guy who survived the whole season with the team. They did not have a day off from Feburary until after Chicago. Basically they put in 10 hour days for about 200 days straight. The upside to that is the people they have now, are fanatically bonded together and them and KVRT probably have the best chemistry among their core team in the paddock because they spent soo much time together.

I think everyone essentially wrote off 2008 with the idea that they were going to learn as much for 2009 as possible. With everything that has gone on at NHL this year I fully expect Justin to be a championship contender next year. Even as bad as this year was, they still won more races than AGR.

[Ranger]

It never ceases to amaze me what people will say when they have no idea what they're talking about.

I'd be careful flinging the word "stupid" around when it might end up sticking where you don't want it to...
Maybe it's just me being pessimistic that this rumour thread started without any sources at all.

Wilson has had a better season than most converts, even with a race win... and yet that somehow means that he should pack his bags and join Penske because NHL have not done a good enough job?

The rumour is not stupid but the reasoning seems askew, considering it was Wilson's first year with NHL, who were debutants to the championship.

It defies logic that he would pack his bags and go after one season because of disappointment with the team. Unless Wilson and his management expected NHL to be constantly fighting for victories in cars they only got earlier this year.

Mind you, if any driver got the opportunity to drive for Penske, they would.

[Zeus]

Maybe it's just me being pessimistic that this rumour thread started without any sources at all.

Wilson has had a better season than most converts, even with a race win... and yet that somehow means that he should pack his bags and join Penske because NHL have not done a good enough job?

The rumour is not stupid but the reasoning seems askew, considering it was Wilson's first year with NHL, who were debutants to the championship.

It defies logic that he would pack his bags and go after one season because of disappointment with the team. Unless Wilson and his management expected NHL to be constantly fighting for victories in cars they only got earlier this year.

Mind you, if any driver got the opportunity to drive for Penske, they would.

The only reason to move would be money. NHL were top dogs in Champ Car and after a learning year in which they did better than most of the converts it would be expected that they will be near the top next year. Justin will be on a higher retainer especially because of his win plus a share of the prize stash so why move to ateam where you have no history. Penske won't be at the top forever.

[seppefan]

[quote="Malllen"]Maybe it's just me being pessimistic that this rumour thread started without any sources at all.


Really ?

[indycool]

There are several reasons this is unlikely, not the least of which is what Maillen said.

The first is that Helio is unlikely to be going anyplace. He signed a new deal with Penske. His lawyers are working out the problem with the IRS and one report has it that they've offered the IRS $5 million by Dec. 31st as part of the negotiations. IMO, this issue is unlikely ever to see a courtroom and Helio's apparent cooperation makes it unlikely that he'll be off the circuit.

Secondly, depending on how much you believe AR1, AR1 has a rumor that Hornish is returning.

Third, and several have said this already, N/H/L and Wilson did NOT have a bad season under the circumstances and tragedies that befell them.

Fourth, Wilson was in a considerably bigger pond than he was before.

Fifth, I've heard no report about the length of his contract with N/H/L.

Sixth, Bourdais is just whining every third second and making excuses about his F1 season, set a deadline for Toro Rosso to keep him and just said he had offers from here to try for some leverage with Toro Rosso that he doesn't have and is screwing himself up over there with 'tude.

Seventh, Penske has access to plenty of quality race drivers and I can't imagine Wilson being his first choice if he DOES need one along the way and I don't see a reason he wouldn't stay with Briscoe.

[MDS]

The first is that Helio is unlikely to be going anyplace. He signed a new deal with Penske. His lawyers are working out the problem with the IRS and one report has it that they've offered the IRS $5 million by Dec. 31st as part of the negotiations. IMO, this issue is unlikely ever to see a courtroom and Helio's apparent cooperation makes it unlikely that he'll be off the circuit.

If they can get it resolved, thats great, but I think is going to cost him more than $5 million. That amount seems light to me, I don't think that covers all back taxes Helio owes, much less the fees and interest I'm sure the government wants. Also, settlement negotations are rarely leaked to the press, so I doubt where this comes from.

From my reading of the indictment the Feds have him dead to rights on this. Its not like Helio signed away his Power of Attorney and someone else did this with his money, in which case I could see a jailless deal. If the indictment is to be believed Helio and his family had his hands on these financial dealings the whole way, and in my experience the feds are unlikely to broker down a lock-shut case without some jail time.

[Will Rogers]

There are several reasons this is unlikely, not the least of which is what Maillen said.

The first is that Helio is unlikely to be going anyplace. He signed a new deal with Penske. His lawyers are working out the problem with the IRS and one report has it that they've offered the IRS $5 million by Dec. 31st as part of the negotiations. IMO, this issue is unlikely ever to see a courtroom and Helio's apparent cooperation makes it unlikely that he'll be off the circuit.

Secondly, depending on how much you believe AR1, AR1 has a rumor that Hornish is returning.

Third, and several have said this already, N/H/L and Wilson did NOT have a bad season under the circumstances and tragedies that befell them.

Fourth, Wilson was in a considerably bigger pond than he was before.

Fifth, I've heard no report about the length of his contract with N/H/L.

Sixth, Bourdais is just whining every third second and making excuses about his F1 season, set a deadline for Toro Rosso to keep him and just said he had offers from here to try for some leverage with Toro Rosso that he doesn't have and is screwing himself up over there with 'tude.

Seventh, Penske has access to plenty of quality race drivers and I can't imagine Wilson being his first choice if he DOES need one along the way and I don't see a reason he wouldn't stay with Briscoe.

None of us have a crystal ball, but there are several reasons why this could be very likely.

The Feds might well prefer a high profile conviction of Helio to show they mean business with others who would play fast and loose with tax laws. Lots of very certain-sounding bloviators were convinced that Martha would never do time...

Hornish might leave NASCAR, but Wilson is a better driver than Sam, and even Sam knows it.

Regardless of how NHL did this year, whether vs other teams or their own expectations, it wasn't the same team this year that it was for the past several, and it will be even less of a team next year.

Wilson has been in bigger ponds before, so the size of the IRL pond doesn't have too much to do with this. The quality of the ride does.

No report on the length of his contract with NHL? The contract that just expired?

Sebastian unhappy at STR? Doesn't matter, he's not coming back to the US.

Penske would have access to good race drivers should he need to fill an empty seat or should there be sufficient sponsor interest to field a third car. In either case, he would be hard pressed to do better than Wilson, who is better than a good driver, and much better than a good person. Wilson is the sort that Penske could invest in for the long term, as a driver and beyond, similar to how he continues to utilize the talents of Rick Mears.

As I said when I started, none of us have a crystal ball, but a long list of weak points doesn't add up to a strong argument.

[bravefish]

It never ceases to amaze me what people will say when they have no idea what they're talking about.

I'd be careful flinging the word "stupid" around when it might end up sticking where you don't want it to...


How do you know they have no idea what they're talking about when the reality is that no-one knows anyway...

[indycool]

Well, MDS, if you read my post, the $5 million, I said, was seemingly "part of" the negotiations. Who knows what any of the rest is, but, IMO, that would seem to be a start toward sorting this out.

This supposedly covers years 1999-2004. In 1999, Helio would have been a Brazilian national in this country at the age of 24. I was born in the USA, am more than twice as old as that, and guarantee you that even at my age, I wouldn't have the knowledge of how to run money through Panama to Switzerland or wherever. I hafta go to H&R Block to this day to figure it out every year.

So, it would appear that there's more or other people involved, or both. We don't know what we don't know.

"Wilson is a better driver than Sam and Sam knows it." Huh?

[Will Rogers]

Perhaps I should have said the Justin Wilson is a better driver than Sam Hornish, and that Roger Penske and Tim Cindric know it. Sam Hornish knows it too, but what matters more is that the people who would do the hiring know it.

[NickFalzone]

Will, there are many IndyCar fans that would disagree with you on that, but I think you do have a point. Certainly on road and streets, which ICS is focusing on more and more, Wilson is the better driver. That said, Hornish was improving on these circuits in 07, and he's the better oval driver by far. I like Wilson's personality more. But as far as talent goes on the IRL's mixed schedule of tracks, I'd say it's about even with an edge to Hornish (I mean come on, Indy 500, championship, he's no slouch).

[Will Rogers]

You are absolutely correct that Hornish is no slouch, and I meant no disrespect to Sam's ability or accomplishments. That said, it is still my belief that in equal equipment/the same car Wilson would be faster on the track, and would deliver better results across a season.

In addition, given the integral role that a driver plays on a team, I believe Wilson would be stronger in that role, and that he would have a bigger long-term future with a team in the sort of roles that either Rick Mears or Gil de Ferran plays with their respective teams.