what's the point of medals ? (Proposed new scoring system)

[Bagwan]

http://sport.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/10/26/F1-Ecclestone-plans-new-scoring-system/

Nice touch for continuity .
Will they need to look like cups , like the trophies ?

I don't quite know what to say .

[Nikki Katz]

??????????

I seriously hope that that's a joke. I've heard many stupid suggestions over the years (anyone remember Max's rotating drivers suggestion?) but this is possibly the worst.

I actually like the current points system - it gives points far down enough so that it's not just the same few cars that score every race (like the old F1 scoring system in the later years) but not so many to make it needlessly complicated or adding to the possibility of championships from midfield positions (e.g. IRL, last years of ChampCar).

[yodasarmpit]

I can see where he's going to an extent, in theory you could win the drivers championship having never actually won a race, and the emphasis should be on winning.
I think the margin of points between 1st and 2nd and 3rd should increase to reward the winner, or introduce points for pole and fastest lap at least.

[Nikki Katz]

But that means that you'd have to end up on the podium to get any sort of result! It's hard enough for some teams to finish top 8 all year. Surely teams would pull out...

[christophulus]

Ridiculous idea, this isn't the Olympics. Isn't that what the trophies are for on the podium?

The system has been fine for the past 60 (nearly) years, why the hell does it need changing now? Give the winner 12 points or the runner up 7 and then leave it alone!

[woody2goody]

There are so many things wrong with what Bernie is saying.

For a start the season hasn't exactly been one sided, the drivers already get trophies, and there's been plenty of great racing this year.

I think everyone should ignore him he's clearly lost the plot and is only thinking about his wallet. That's why Canada, the USA and France have been axed over countries with NO motorsport history at all.

[yodasarmpit]

For a start the season hasn't exactly been one sided, the drivers already get trophies, and there's been plenty of great racing this year.

Exactly, this season and last have been more open than it has been for a long time.

I do sort of agree that winning should be rewarded, rather than just consistency. The balance of points should favour the winners.

[Hawkmoon]

Methinks Bernie's showing the beginings of a touch of senility. He's 77 after all.

I like the way he says that he's convinced everyone that points have to go. Can anybody see all the teams agreeing to this? Perhaps by everyone Bernie means himself, Max and their imaginary friend Bob. I'm sure Bob and the rest of the inhabitants of Fairy Land are quite amenable to the idea.

[Rollo]

Under this system...
Minardi - 20 years of competition was worthless.


Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone believes that Lewis Hamilton will win the Drivers' title next Sunday but says he never wants to see such a one-sided ending to a season again.

One sided? At one stage we had three drivers with a shot for the title, and the title race has actually come to the last event. Perhaps Bernie needs to get his medication changed... hopefully to cyanide pills.

[Areez2006]

I can see where he's going to an extent, in theory you could win the drivers championship having never actually won a race, and the emphasis should be on winning.
I think the margin of points between 1st and 2nd and 3rd should increase to reward the winner, or introduce points for pole and fastest lap at least.

I agree with you on putting more emphasis on winning. I read in another thread where someone suggested it being 12 for 1st instead of 10. But a medal system seems like it cause more confusion than better racing.

[Hawkmoon]

Under this system...
Minardi - 20 years of competition was worthless.

They will still score points for the WCC so Minardi's toils wouldn't have been entirely worthless.




One sided? At one stage we had three drivers with a shot for the title, and the title race has actually come to the last event. Perhaps Bernie needs to get his medication changed... hopefully to cyanide pills.

I think what Bernie wants is a type of Super Bowl/Grand Final/FA Cup Final finale where the winner takes all. We don't have that this year as Hamilton basically only needs to finish to win. This bothers Bernie because he thinks that not as many people will be watching as it's an almost forgone conclusion. Think of the dollars lost! And all because that young Hamilton didn't have the decency to win the title by a point with a win at the last race. For shame on you Lewis, you inconsiderate so-and-so! Think of Bernie's retirement fund next time please!

I'm somewhat surprised that Bernie doesn't want throw out the points for that last race and have the top four shoot it out for the crown. Think of it! Hamilton vs Massa vs Raikkonen vs Kubica! Winner takes all! Last man standing!

Now, where did they put those clowns?

[racer69]

I think its a great idea, the champ should be the one with the most wins.

And for those saying Bernie is getting old, he first suggested this idea back in 1982!

[harvick#1]

nothing wrong with the scoring other than maybe 1 or 2 more points should seperate 1st and 2nd to try and motivate drivers to race for the win more

[ShiftingGears]

Hell, how about the points tally of the drivers decides the starting grid of the last race, and the winner of the last race wins the championship?


No?

[call_me_andrew]

The championship comes down to the last race and he's complaining? I mean if the championship was decided at Spa, I might be inclined to agree; but that's not the case here.

[Rollo]

And for those saying Bernie is getting old, he first suggested this idea back in 1982!

In 1982 Keke Rosberg won the title after only having won a single race. Was this comment made because as a team owner he was jealous?

The problem with next week's race is that Hamilton barely has to bother. I'd much rather he and Massa had to race to the finish to decide the title.

What would have Bernie said abotu Mansell in 1992 or Schumacher in 2004? If a driver exerts dominance on the season by winning lots, then it would be decided early. In the case of Schumacher in '04, the title under Bernie's system would have been over by July 4 (which it pretty well was anyway).

David Coulthard has score more F1 points than another other British driver, but nobody really knows this because people look at race wins.
Um, that would be because his career has been going since 1994 and has made 245 starts? Is it only Barichello and Patrese who started more races?

Bernie you're an idiot.

[Hawkmoon]

I think its a great idea, the champ should be the one with the most wins.

And for those saying Bernie is getting old, he first suggested this idea back in 1982!

I agree, to a point. Where someone has significantly more wins, eg. Schumi with 6 over Raikkonen with 1 in 2003, he should be champion. But when the win total sits at 5-4 then you need something more than just wins to decide. That's where points come in.

The problem is that in Bernie's reacting to this season in isolation. If we used Bernie's medal system in 2003 then Schumi would have been champion before the last race and Raikkonen would never have been in contention at all.

Last year Kimi would have actually lead the championship going into the last race with a 5-4 win advantage over Hamilton and Alonso and wouldn't have had to win the race to become champion. He could have let Massa win and DNF'd and the McLaren duo could not have beaten him.

Bernie's medals will no more guarantee a close championship than any other system. What will probably happen is that 2nd and 3rd palces will decide the championship as drivers end up tied for wins. Not exactly what Bernie's after is it?

[racer69]

In 1982 Keke Rosberg won the title after only having won a single race. Was this comment made because as a team owner he was jealous?


From memory the comment was either made during 1981 (for 1982), or during 1982 (for 1983), have to check my RCN's

Not sure what he was jealous, Piquet & Patrese individually didn't exceed Rosberg's win tally in 1982 [ :) ]

[Mark]

I'm not sure really. I can see merit to the idea. But I really don't think it will work in practice. It wasn't so long ago they extended the points from top 6 to top 8 to give the other teams something to compete for, now they want to just make it top 3?!

[555-04Q2]

Here we go again :(

Why do they want to keep (excuse the pun) meddling with the sport :?:

[Bagwan]

Maybe the medals will be really heavy so they can be used as ballast , hung around the driver's neck .
Or , maybe they could be really big , and made of chocolate , so the driver gains the ballast , himself .

Perhaps they could be cup-shaped , and the driver would have to keep the champagne in the cup for the whole race , so he'd have to have multiple cup holders if he won too many , and he'd be fined or docked positions if he lost any bubbly during the race .

[Mark]

Maybe the medals will be really heavy so they can be used as ballast , hung around the driver's neck .
Or , maybe they could be really big , and made of chocolate , so the driver gains the ballast , himself .

Perhaps they could be cup-shaped , and the driver would have to keep the champagne in the cup for the whole race , so he'd have to have multiple cup holders if he won too many , and he'd be fined or docked positions if he lost any bubbly during the race .

No, he'll be made to drink the champagne before the race :p

[Knock-on]

Here we go again :(

Why do they want to keep (excuse the pun) meddling with the sport :?:

When you dig down deep enough, you will see some logic behind Bernies perceived bull.

Having 3 medals is obviously impractical but a way of getting people to toe the line about something else.

I have long said there should be a different points system with something like:

1st - 15
2nd - 10
3rd - 7
4th - 5
5th - 4
6th - 3
7th - 2
8th - 1

Gives points down the field but if your not in the top 3, you're going to suffer.

When the difference between 1st and 3rd is 4 points, why take the risk of losing 6 whereas when 1st to 2nd is 5 points, it makes a big difference.

[Bagwan]

Flowers . That's the answer to all this .

Give the drivers a bouquet of flowers for a win , and lesser bouqets for second and third , and they have to keep adding that little packet of "keep the flowers fresh" stuff at every pitstop , adding precious seconds .
Leaves and petals could be examined after the race in parc ferme to determine the sanctions .
Aphids , thrips , and scale bugs would throw in a whole new dimension , where only certain pesticides would be allowed .
Bonus points could be given for growth , and this will hopefully inspire the adoption of the "greenhouse wing" , and the recycling of the tire warmers for heating the greenhouse , when China moves it's race to Tibet , where it's cold .

It would fall in with the green initiative at the same time .

[Mark]

Well you could give medals and have no points but still give the lower teams something to fight for.

i.e. The winner is the one with the most wins, then if they are tied it goes off silver medals and then from bronze medals, that's how the olympics works

Now there is no reason why you can't carry that on down the placings so it goes off number of 4th places, 5th places, etc etc. That way, especially for the lower teams, every result counts not just finishing in the top 8.

So on first glace you'd think the medal system would only mean racing for the top 3 but it could promote tougher racing right down the field.

[V12]

For once I agree with the general gist of what Bernie is getting at.

Of course, it doesn't change the fact that he and Max are still the biggest planks in the universe and if they get their way F1 will be dead by 2010, but anyway...

He's still approaching it the wrong way though. I agree that winners should be rewarded more, but, well, that's all I agree with.

It's nice when the championship comes down to the final race of the season, but it certainly shouldn't be expected as a birthright or taken for granted, we should just appreciate it on the occasions it does happen.

The problem is when people, i.e. Bernie, start to want a title decider at the final race at all costs, knowing how mentally ill Max has got over the past few months, we will basically end up with F1's very own equivalent of the Chase for the NASCAR Sprint Cup. *shudders*

As for the medal system, it would totally skew the history of the championship. The championship has always been points-based, with minor tweaks over time, and thats the way it should stay. Just give the winner 12 points.

[Mark]

The current point system was brought into replace 10-6-4-3-2-1 because Schumacher kept winning and thus winning the championship too early. The idea was to make a win less of a big deal and thus make sure Schumacher doesn't win as quickly with 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 but now they are saying the opposite?!

Personally I don't mind if the championship is won before the final race. It's quite refreshing to have a bit of a 'non-championship' race.

[V12]

The current point system was brought into replace 10-6-4-3-2-1 because Schumacher kept winning and thus winning the championship too early. The idea was to make a win less of a big deal and thus make sure Schumacher doesn't win as quickly with 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 but now they are saying the opposite?!

Personally I don't mind if the championship is won before the final race. It's quite refreshing to have a bit of a 'non-championship' race.

Exactly. If somebody kicks everyone's arse over the course of the season, they deserve to wrap it up early. Plus some of the best racing has traditionally come at the end of the season after the championship is wrapped up, because the drivers can let loose to some degree and just focus on winning the race without having to "drive for points".

I'm not sure on a return to 10-6-4-3-2-1 though, as while yes it is simple, rewards victory, and the winner gets a nice round number, I think in this era of ultra-reliability points need to go to at least the first eight finishers. To be honest given the extra reliability, eighth today is probably worth what sixth was 10-15 years ago, so that's fair in my book.

Having said all that, there's a school of thought that says that Grand Prix racing would be much better off as it was pre-1950, where there was no championship and it was winning each individual major Grand Prix that carried the prestige (this was still the case in the formative years of the championship as well).

Much like golf and tennis today I guess, a win at Wimbledon or The Open is remembered a lot more than being top of the rankings or order of merit or whatever at the end of the year.

[seppefan]

I agree with Bernie's idea. Spot on.

[F1boat]

I am so happy that Indy Car is united now. I won't have to bother with Bernie's so called sport. This is the worst idea ever. Makes NASCAR playoffs look tremendous. What about midfield teams, buddy? And IMO consistency is very important part of motorsport.
Sucker.

[Tallgeese]

I say go back to 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. The problem of competitiveness is solving itself. With Schumacher gone, Ferrari is no longer the awe of the F1 community & even McLaren-Mercedes are losing ground rapidly to BMW Sauber & Renault & Toyota will only improve, as will Red Bull. Put simply it's getting tighter & tighter now that the man-to-beat is gone. Some say go for 12, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 & on paper that seems fair, but I'd rather it be a top-six tier.

[Nikki Katz]

I say go back to 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. The problem of competitiveness is solving itself. With Schumacher gone, Ferrari is no longer the awe of the F1 community & even McLaren-Mercedes are losing ground rapidly to BMW Sauber & Renault & Toyota will only improve, as will Red Bull. Put simply it's getting tighter & tighter now that the man-to-beat is gone. Some say go for 12, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 & on paper that seems fair, but I'd rather it be a top-six tier.
But surely with new regulations next year there's an increased chance that one team will get it right and run away with the championship. Even last year Ferrari and McLaren were clear at the top, with BMW a distinct 3rd, so under the old system the other 8 teams would have scored very few points. Dominance in F1 comes and goes, it's not like Schumacher's 2002 and 2004 titles were the only dominant titles ever, and short of spec chassis and engines they probably won't be the last either.

[DazzlaF1]

Exactly, this season and last have been more open than it has been for a long time.

I do sort of agree that winning should be rewarded, rather than just consistency. The balance of points should favour the winners.

Of course it has, 7 different winners for 5 different teams, most open season since 2003.

Changing it to a medals system would be ridiculous, remember Minardi, to them finishing in a points position was like a win for them, and isnt that what F1 is all about, well not according to Ecclestone, he doesnt give a damn unless he keeps raking in the millions.

[woody2goody]

Points need to stay. Full stop. Why? Because points are a measure of success. Under Bernie's system, it would completely screw up the championship, and drivers would finish in undeserved positions.

For example, someone with 1 podium finish would be classified above someone who has finished 4th 10 times. That would be completely ridiculous in my opinion.

Another example is this year, David Coulthard would finish above Mark Webber in this year's standings, despite Webber having 9 points finishes and 1 points compared to DC's 2 points finishes and just 8 points.

I agree with giving 1st 12 points, but a couple of years ago I was experimenting with points systems, and I have two possible alternatives.

One is the MotoGP points system, which could be fun, but would result in a ridiculous amount of points rendering all points records completely useless in a matter of a few seasons.

The other one was 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 for the first 10 drivers. Yes there are a lot of points being given out, but with good reliability rates 10 points scorers isn't too bad, and there is a gap of 3 between 1st and 2nd.

To be honest, I think we should keep the current system.

[AndyRAC]

Oh dear me,I thought the FIA saved all their crazy ideas for the WRC - it appears not. This is just more meddling; there is Promoting a sport and meddlingg with a sport - Bernie is meddling. If the Championship is won in August - TOUGH!!! It's up to the competition to do something about it. I would change the points system though - only a 2 point difference between 1st & 2nd isn't enough. As we've seen in the WRC, Loeb has won 10 out of 13 but could still theoretically lose the title if the car lets him down - totally insane - anybody who dominates that much deserves the Title.
If there was 26-30 cars I'd go for the MotoGP points system, but as there is only 20 cars, that is a no-no. What about 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1??

Medals,..........whatever next,........brolly girls for the top 3!!

[wmcot]

...7 different winners for 5 different teams, most open season since 2003.

That's Bernie's definition of one-sided!

[Mark]

Remeber that Massa and Hamilton only have 5 wins apiece because Hamiltons win was taken off him and given to Massa. So without FIA interference it would be Hamilton 6, Massa 4, and thusly Hamilton would already be world champion.

[F1boat]

This example is not relevant, it is different year and I respect FIA's decision, but the Bernie's idea is ridiculous. Imagine a guy with 7 victories and 9 retirements beating a guy with 6 victories and 16 podiums. It is not fair. Sorry. Constistency is very important. It is part of the game.

[555-04Q2]

F1 should go back to the old 10-6-4-3-2-1 points system. It worked well for a long time. So what if a team gets it right and dominates. Thats what F1 is about, being the best. Teams and drivers that get it right shouldnt be penalised for doing a good job while the other stuff around.

F1 needs to shine up or I wont be watching it in the near future. Stuff the proposed crappy mickey mouse changes we have every year, give me cars with reduced aero, slick tyres and no ABS.

[gravity]

The points system used to be 9,6,4,3,2,1
it was changed to 10,6,4,3,2,1 to reward the winner
MS dominated and won the ch'ship "too early", so they tried to reward consistency with the 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1
Now, he wants to keep the championship going for longer by rewarding the winner again? LOL!

And Bernie complains that Lewis isn't racing for wins? They penalise anyone who tries to race. Stop penalising racing incidents and they might see more action!

What will Bernie think of next? How about:

10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 points system

If u think about it, the best way to keep yr championship going for as long as possible is to not reward the early season winners... but then, you'll be left with what Bernie has now... Because of the small points difference, early season winners only have to finish (not race to the end) to win overall.

If we run through previous seasons (including those that were dominated by a single driver) would Bernie's new idea still work? Would those seasons have gone on for longer before the championship was finally won?

[Mark]

If we run through previous seasons (including those that were dominated by a single driver) would Bernie's new idea still work? Would those seasons have gone on for longer before the championship was finally won?

That would be interesting to see, but I suspect not, after all most F1 championships are won by the drivers who rake in the most points & wins in the first half of the season.

In fact has been said that the top 8 system means that it is harder for a driver to mount a challenge later in the season because a win only nets 2 points if their rival finishes 2nd to them.

[Mark]

I haven't got time to go into 2nd and 3rd places but here are the 'gold medal' tallies from the past few years

In 2006 and 2005 it would have come down to 2nd and 3rd places.

2007
----
Kimi 6
Alonso 4
Hamilton 4
Massa 3

2006
----
=Alonso 7
=Schumacher 7
Massa 2
Fisichella 1
Button 1

2005
---
=Alonso 7
=Kimi 7
Montoya 3
Fisichella 1
Schumacher 1

2004
---
Schumacher 13
Trulli 1
Kimi 1
Montoya 1

[Knock-on]

The points system used to be 9,6,4,3,2,1
it was changed to 10,6,4,3,2,1 to reward the winner
MS dominated and won the ch'ship "too early", so they tried to reward consistency with the 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1
Now, he wants to keep the championship going for longer by rewarding the winner again? LOL!

And Bernie complains that Lewis isn't racing for wins? They penalise anyone who tries to race. Stop penalising racing incidents and they might see more action!

What will Bernie think of next? How about:

10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 points system

If u think about it, the best way to keep yr championship going for as long as possible is to not reward the early season winners... but then, you'll be left with what Bernie has now... Because of the small points difference, early season winners only have to finish (not race to the end) to win overall.

If we run through previous seasons (including those that were dominated by a single driver) would Bernie's new idea still work? Would those seasons have gone on for longer before the championship was finally won?


:up:

Agree with all that.

Problem is that these days, the lunatics are in charge of the Asylum.

Bernie and Max come up with more and more outlandish ideas to "improve" the spectacle or to control the sport in ways the teams and fans don't want or need.

Elect me president of the FIA and I would change the rules to these.

Maximum Engine Size 2.5 litre
Maximum Length 4500mm
Maximum Width 2200mm
Maximum Height 1000mm
Minimum dry weight 600kg
Fuel allowance 5MPG for race
No refuelling during race
Maximum 2 sets of tyres per race and 4 for weekend from 2 nominated suppliers
Standard ECU
No LC
No TC
No ABS
Foot operated clutch
Maximum auro created down-force at 200MPH <= dry weight of car
No external aero devices apart from standard adjustable front and rear wings.
Drivers must have 180 degree visability and standard mirrors.
Cars have to pass safety tests
Anything not in the rules is allowed

[V12]

:up:

Agree with all that.

Problem is that these days, the lunatics are in charge of the Asylum.

Bernie and Max come up with more and more outlandish ideas to "improve" the spectacle or to control the sport in ways the teams and fans don't want or need.

Elect me president of the FIA and I would change the rules to these.

Maximum Engine Size 2.5 litre
Maximum Length 4500mm
Maximum Width 2200mm
Maximum Height 1000mm
Minimum dry weight 600kg
Fuel allowance 5MPG for race
No refuelling during race
Maximum 2 sets of tyres per race and 4 for weekend from 2 nominated suppliers
Standard ECU
No LC
No TC
No ABS
Foot operated clutch
Maximum auro created down-force at 200MPH <= dry weight of car
No external aero devices apart from standard adjustable front and rear wings.
Drivers must have 180 degree visability and standard mirrors.
Cars have to pass safety tests
Anything not in the rules is allowed

You'd have my vote, especially on that last line! Although if given a choice I'd prefer no limit on tyre suppliers, but still 2 is better than 1 :up:

[Bezza]

10-6-4-3-2-1 with an extra point for qualifying on pole - PROVIDING fuel-free qualifying is imposed so that we see true qualifying pace.

I don't like the current system, it rewards consistency over wins. You need to reward both - but wins first, rather than the other way round.

Bernie's idea has a good premise - to reward victories, but there is no reward for anything else at all. Anyone below 3rd is pointless - as no-one is really interested in the Constructors.

It needs tweaking, but the best "option" for all I can't think of is to give points of 12 to the winner, keeping points for the top 8, even though my personal opinion is of 10-6-4-3-2-1 being the best.

In addition, all records of the past should be forced to correlate to 10-6-4-3-2-1 rules. So everything 2003 and beyond, in the record books, gives the same rewards. Therefore, we won't have a "present bias".

[DazzlaF1]

F1 should go back to the old 10-6-4-3-2-1 points system. It worked well for a long time. So what if a team gets it right and dominates. Thats what F1 is about, being the best. Teams and drivers that get it right shouldnt be penalised for doing a good job while the other stuff around.

F1 needs to shine up or I wont be watching it in the near future. Stuff the proposed crappy mickey mouse changes we have every year, give me cars with reduced aero, slick tyres and no ABS.

Well if F1 still used the old 10-6-4-3-2-1 system, it would certainly be much closer, Hamilton would have to finish on the podium in brazil to win it instead of a top 5 finish with the current system

Hamilton ........ 78
Massa ........ 73
Raikkonen ........ 52
Kubica ........ 50
Heidfeld ........ 38
Alonso ........ 37
Kovalainen ........ 34
Vettel ........ 18
Trulli ........ 13
Glock ........ 12
Rosberg ........ 10
Piquet ........ 10
Webber ........ 6
Barrichello ........ 5
Coulthard ........ 4
Nakajima ........ 1
Button ........ 1

[Hawkmoon]

There is no system on earth that will guarantee a last race shootout for the title. Except one.

The points are erased and the top two fight it out for the title in a last race "Grand Final/Superbowl" type affair.

Anybody like the sound of that? Didn't think so.

[jens]

So the WDC standings will look like a medal table? This might be the worst idea I have ever heard regarding F1 rules! :p :

I actually think Bernie's next idea might be nascaresque - with 5 races to go, let's say the Top5 will be put within 5 points, so it'll get interesting again.

We may discuss about the worth of a win, but points should be given at least to Top8 or Top10. There are 20 cars racing and others behind top teams need to get recognized too. I don't know, why is this top6 method so liked. It's used in no other motorsport series. In many series points are actually awarded to Top10 or even more. For example top15 in Moto GP. Would you like to see only top6 getting points in MGP too? And with that 10-6-etc system actually current situation would be less interesting, because other drivers behind LH and FM would be further behind.

[keysersoze]

From memory the comment was either made during 1981 (for 1982), or during 1982 (for 1983), have to check my RCN's

Not sure what he was jealous, Piquet & Patrese individually didn't exceed Rosberg's win tally in 1982 [ :) ]

Before jumping to any conclusions about the scoring system, we need to keep in mind that 1982 was a strange year, as two of the main title protagonists were eliminated during the season: Gilles was killed and Didier Pironi suffered career-ending leg injuries.

[keysersoze]

When you dig down deep enough, you will see some logic behind Bernies perceived bull.

Having 3 medals is obviously impractical but a way of getting people to toe the line about something else.

I have long said there should be a different points system with something like:

1st - 15
2nd - 10
3rd - 7
4th - 5
5th - 4
6th - 3
7th - 2
8th - 1

Gives points down the field but if your not in the top 3, you're going to suffer.

When the difference between 1st and 3rd is 4 points, why take the risk of losing 6 whereas when 1st to 2nd is 5 points, it makes a big difference.

Good call, Knock on. I posted this on July 1st:

IMO, there should be three priorities, in this order:

1) winning
2) being on the podium
3) finishing in the top eight

The bottom five on that list should receive one additional point for each place gained, as an incentive to keep pushing. Therefore,

8th: 1 point
7th: 2 points
6th: 3 points
5th: 4 points
4th: 5 points

Getting on the podium should be a leap in prestige as well as points, so I suggest TWO. Therefore,

3rd: 7 points

A runner-up position should be yet another leap in prestige and points, so I suggest THREE. Therefore,

2nd: 10 points

Winning, emblematic of the most prestige, should include a corresponding (and most significant) leap in points, so I suggest FIVE. Therefore,

1st: 15 points

15-10-7-5-4-3-2-1

[ShiftingGears]

The WDC has been decided in the final race for 3 years in a row. In seasons with 17+ races. Can't get much closer than that.

[Bezza]

Massa would be champion under 10-6-4-3-2-1 scoring system ;)