1 engine 3 races from 2009

[CNR]

F1 teams agree cost-cutting deal


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7682905.stm

The FIA and representatives of Formula One teams have agreed to cut costs for smaller teams from next season.

[CNR]

Officials of three teams, who wished to stay anonymous, said that the cost of engines supplied to independent teams will be capped at $13.2m a year.


Officials of three teams
i think it may be
Ferrari
Toyota
Renault

[Rollo]

McLaren?

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1197083
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71239
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/170391-0/force_india_to_get_di_resta_and_mercedes_in_09.htm l
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4288193,00.html

It might very be in Mercedes interests to offer cheap engines to Force India, and this might be some sort of leverage perhaps to get di Resta a drive (esp. considering that he's contracted to AMG).

[ArrowsFA1]

A plan to make dramatic cost-cuts was agreed between the FIA and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) in a landmark meeting in Geneva, it was announced in a joint statement on Tuesday.

...while the statement did not detail any specific measures, autosport.com understands that four key points were agreed:

- Engine life will be increased from two to three races from 2009

- Manufacturers must be prepared to make 25 engine units available, at a cost of 10 million Euros, to customer teams

- There will be a further meeting between FOTA members in Brazil to determine testing kilometre limits for 2009, and an agreement in principal on the introduction of a standard Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) unit for 2010 or 2011. KERS is believed to remain open for teams to use next season.

- The sport's governing body and FOTA will meet again after the Brazilian Grand Prix to discuss measures to reduce costs related to chassis development and the continuation of the use of customer chassis in the future.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71638

The meeting was described as "very positive and constructive" :up:

[Dave B]

Funny how the threat of a single engine kicks the manufacturers into agreeing action ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Funny how the threat of a single engine kicks the manufacturers into agreeing action ;)
I'm not so sure that threat was the push that led to agreement because all along FOTA has appeared to be very united in its' approach, and there are no reports that the engine tender process has been withdrawn, so it appears that's still going to happen. Or perhaps it will be quietly dropped. We've seen that kind of thing happen before :p

[ShiftingGears]

It might very be in Mercedes interests to offer cheap engines to Force India, and this might be some sort of leverage perhaps to get di Resta a drive (esp. considering that he's contracted to AMG).

Force India should definitely try getting Di Resta in for 2009.

[woody2goody]

Force India should definitely try getting Di Resta in for 2009.

Exactly how good is Di Resta?

I've heard about his career and how he is doing in the DTM but does he have what it takes in an F1 car? I can see Sutil being the one to make way for him if he is, because Fisichella's veteran experience is invaluable to that team.

[pino]

Funny how the threat of a single engine kicks the manufacturers into agreeing action ;)

The winner here is FOTA, not FIA :p :

[wedge]

Force India should definitely try getting Di Resta in for 2009.


Force India confirmed they were keeping Fisi and Sutil during the Chinese GP weekend.

[I am evil Homer]

Exactly how good is Di Resta?

I've heard about his career and how he is doing in the DTM but does he have what it takes in an F1 car? I can see Sutil being the one to make way for him if he is, because Fisichella's veteran experience is invaluable to that team.

Well he beat Vettel in the same car and same team so if you take that as a benchmark, then potentially very, very good.

[V12]

Well....this certainly beats the single engine crap we've been hearing of. Maybe common sense has prevailed after all? I won't hold my breath just yet though.

Price-capped engines are an excellent idea, and something that should be applied for chassis in lower formulae as an alternative to a spec chassis.

Still, the fact Max and Bernie could even entertain the idea of a spec engine as an alternative, whether it was used simply for leverage or not, makes me still worry a little for the sport's future.

[ShiftingGears]

Force India confirmed they were keeping Fisi and Sutil during the Chinese GP weekend.

Which is unfortunate, really.

[truefan72]

The winner here is FOTA, not FIA :p :

yep

they actually stymied some of the fIA/mosley's proposals
1 engine for 3 races is asking for a fiasco and a farce of a GP weekend.

I don't even like the 2 race engine rule. these are high performance vehicles and should be treated as such.

I wonder how many other series run this rule out there

[woody2goody]

Force India confirmed they were keeping Fisi and Sutil during the Chinese GP weekend.

Thumbs up on keeping Fisi. Not sure about Sutil but he does have some rotten luck. However when he doesn't have bad luck he throws it in the scenery. Sigh... :)

[wmcot]

yep

they actually stymied some of the fIA/mosley's proposals
1 engine for 3 races is asking for a fiasco and a farce of a GP weekend.

I don't even like the 2 race engine rule. these are high performance vehicles and should be treated as such.

I wonder how many other series run this rule out there

Not drag racing - that's more like 1 engine for 5 seconds rule! I suppose we'll see a one engine per season rule in the future. (It will end up being an old Ford 289 V8!)

[CNR]

i think they should allow a engine rebuild between races this would save money
some parts would last more then 3 races

[ioan]

i think they should allow a engine rebuild between races this would save money
some parts would last more then 3 races

Problem is that teams would push the limits of the rule and rebuild the entire engine (change everything).

[Hawkmoon]

1 engine for three races is nothing new. When the 1 engine for 1 race rule was introduced Max had already flagged the extension to 2, 3 and then 6 races. By 2010 those engines will have to last 6 races. 3 years after that it will be 8 races. Way to cut costs guys because redesigning your engine to last longer won't cost much. :dozey:

Unless F1 becomes a spec series there is no way to cut costs. The teams will always spend what they can get. If they can't spend it on the cars they'll spend it on test tracks, wind tunnels, super computers, motorhomes, etc, etc.

[Mark]

Well that's what Norbert Haug was saying in China, that Mercedes have been spending a lot of money on making an engine be just as powerful in the second race. I wonder how much is actually saved?

[nigelred5]

Well that's what Norbert Haug was saying in China, that Mercedes have been spending a lot of money on making an engine be just as powerful in the second race. I wonder how much is actually saved?

I suspect very very little in the grand scheme of things. They may actually produce a few more engine a season, but development obviously continues. Cosworth did 1000 mile rebuilds in Champcar with very good reliability and a very very small loss of performance over that span of time. If the F1 teams can't build an engine to last half that long with the money they invest, they should be embarassed.

I say eliminate the pneumatic valve trains, even though they are very reliable. With a conventional valve train, RPM's immediately fall to +/- the 16,000 range. Unless I've missed something, I've yet to see a pneumatic valve train appear in a street car so the arguments that they are developing future technology is flawed. KERS coupled with a much lower cost / tightly managed spec but still open to all manufacturers is the way to move imho.

F1 can and should force a change to a much more conventionally constructed engine spec that can be produced and maintained at a miniscule cost compared to what they have now and still provide more than ample power in the 700-800hp range. As much as I appreciate the sound of a modern F1 engine It's simply not necessary to have engines that idle at 7K rpm and make most of their power at close to 20K. I'm sure all of the urban oriented races now on the schedule would also appreciate a bit quieter engine spec.

yet again, F1 and the FIA move one step closer to what champcar was ;)

[schmenke]

... Unless I've missed something, I've yet to see a pneumatic valve train appear in a street car ...

There's no need. Pneumatically actuated valves provide no real benefit to a street car that revs at ~5,000rpm.

[Daniel]

You will see pneumatic valvetrains soon enough. Camless engines will be with us in a year or two. Google Fiat Multiair and you'll see

[Tallgeese]

FIA is dominated by a bunch of lunatics. Mosley is so up & about because he escaped a scandal, & F1 is seen as too expensive to sustain. FOM & the GPMA should seriously consider breaking away from FIA for trying to force the wrong reforms on F1. Engine to last three races? That is just silly.

[ioan]

FIA is dominated by a bunch of lunatics. Mosley is so up & about because he escaped a scandal, & F1 is seen as too expensive to sustain. FOM & the GPMA should seriously consider breaking away from FIA for trying to force the wrong reforms on F1. Engine to last three races? That is just silly.

I disagree, we don't need FOM either.