Some Canadians are trying to build an oval track

[MDS]

This is something I've been hearing about for a while Apparently some Canadian developers are looking to Middle-East oil money to fund a 1 mile oval outside of Buffalo, NY/Southern Ontario .

It's not a terrible idea. Like most track proposals I doubt it will come to fruition, but I would think their odds would be better at getting an ICS race than a NASCAR stop.

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1239734

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/10/06/daily43.html

[SoCalPVguy]

Some Canadians are trying to build an oval track -

Good Lord --- Why ???

[Chamoo]

Why don't they build it somewhere there isn't a good race track around. Niagara is within distance of the Toronto Indy and Mosport. Why not build it somewhere like Vancouver to replace the Vancouver Indy.

[Easy Drifter]

This one has floated around off and on for at least 20 years.
The reason for southern On. is simple. Population base. GTA 4 to 5 million people. Add in Hamilton, St Catharines and Buffalo plus the tourist draw of Niagara Falls.

[nigelred5]

I've got six or eight of them here in the US they can have as far as I"m concerned.

[call_me_andrew]

Canada already has plenty of oval tracks. Very few I would use for an IndyCar race, but they're their. Just as the Canadian Tire Series.

[philipbain]

Building an oval track in Canada is a good idea, hopefully it will lure NASCAR to venture outside of the states! All I would say is to not try and be too clever on the layout of the track, Rockingham in England is a great example of nice idea, shame about the layout, it positively eliminates the possibility to overtake as its a 1.5 miles track with 4 distinct turns, hence the straights are far too short for any meaningful drafting. The Eurospeedway in Germany would be a better example to follow, a 2 mile Tri-Oval aping Pocono, a much better track, some lovely long straights and just enough variety in the corners to keep it interesting.

[Easy Drifter]

The talk is a 1 mile oval. Ontario's current biggest is a 5/8 mile.
The Fort Erie council are in agreement and the Mayor is with a Ont. trade mission the the Mid East. It is led Ont.'s Minister of Int'l Trade, a heavy hitter in the Ont. Govt. She is also pretty good looking but has had to tone down her clothes for this mission. She favours Minis and Stiletto heels neither of which would go over well (officialy) in the Arab world.
From the sounds of it the promoters (former racers) have done their homework and have most if not all approvals in place including enviromental.
Just the same I expect there will be 'nimby' opposition and if it goes to the Ontario Municipal Board I would expect an up to 2 year delay.
Calabogie, in a relatively remote area, took years to get approved and then had restrictions on hours of operation and # of events.

[philipbain]

The talk is a 1 mile oval.

Thats excellent, single seaters are always good entertainment on the 1 milers (which is why Indycar used to run a few of them back in the early-mid 90s), it would be nice to see IRL run there, perhaps in place of one of the NASCAR cookie cutter tracks. Infact, taking the '93 Indycar season as an example, they didnt run any 1.5 mile tracks, the only ovals they ran were either 1 milers (4 of them) or the big 2+ mile super speedways (2 of them).

[16&Gtown]

This is something I've been hearing about for a while Apparently some Canadian developers are looking to MIDDLE-EAST OIL MONEY to fund a 1 mile oval outside of Buffalo, NY/Southern Ontario .

It's not a terrible idea. Like most track proposals I doubt it will come to fruition, but I would think their odds would be better at getting an ICS race than a NASCAR stop.

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1239734

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/10/06/daily43.html

So the canadians support terrorism?? I knew it!!!

[Easy Drifter]

Yes. That is why close to half our combat troops are in Afganistan and our Navy has ships patrolling with the US Navy in the Mid East. :angryfire

[Easy Drifter]

No. He is busy harvesting the wine grapes in Niagara region so North America will have some drinkable wine!


Kidding aside the Cdn. Troops along with the US and Brits and I think the Dutch are the only ones at the sharp end of things. All the others stay in relatively safe areas.

[16&Gtown]

No. He is busy harvesting the wine grapes in Niagara region so North America will have some drinkable wine!


Kidding aside the Cdn. Troops along with the US and Brits and I think the Dutch are the only ones at the sharp end of things. All the others stay in relatively safe areas.

Well as a member of the US Army who will be in Afghanistan come next spring. I was obviously joking!

[Easy Drifter]

Sorry, I get a little touchy.
Try paracuting into the jungle in Malaysia behind Commie lines with the SAS. :p

[16&Gtown]

Sorry, I get a little touchy.
Try paracuting into the jungle in Malaysia behind Commie lines with the SAS. :p

I'd love to! going to airborne school in april! cant wait!

[Easy Drifter]

When I said jungle that was it. Not clearings, jungle. The real fun was getting down from the tree you were in. :D

[Easy Drifter]

Funding from Kuwait a done deal. 65,000 seats expandable to 100,000. 1 mile oval and 2 1/2 mile road course. I have not seen details of the layout but a 2 1/2 mile road course in the infield would be nothing but turns with the exception of the amount of oval used. I do not like any of the road courses within an oval and that includes Daytona and Indy where they have a 2 1/2 mile ovals!
There will be the usual nimby opposition I am sure but with the mayor of Fort Erie and his council (he was on the trade mission) and the provincial Govt. in favour I expect it will proceed.
The area is suffering from plant closures (GM and John Deere are just two). The Niagara fruit growing farmers, a very large proportion of Ontario's fruit is grown there, are hurting from imported fruit a cheaper prices. The wine industry remain strong and produces many good wines, often medal winners. Ont. Ice Wine is generally considered the world's best.
The big problem I forsee is who is going to race there besides the NAPCAR Cdn. Tire series. NAPCAR say they have no gaps on any of the major series calendars and have no contact with the promoters. IRL race in Toronto only 100 miles away. ALMS run at Mosport, about 160 miles away and the track is owned by Dr. Panoz who is ALMS. Grand Am is a possibility for the road course.
Actually I expect NAPCAR, once they study the demographics might change their mind. They have no ovals closer than Mich. and the population base within say 200 miles of the track probably exceeds 6 million. The greater Toronto area alone is 4 million +. Buffalo is just minutes away if there are no delays at the border. Rochester is maybe 80 miles. Erie Pa. and Cleveland are easy drives all on multi lane highways. Detroit is no more than 3 1/2 hours. The closest NAPCAR race is at the Glen on a road course.
Add in the tourist draw of Niagara Falls and Niagara on the Lake and a huge number of hotels in the Falls (mostly on the Cdn. side). Many good restuarnts and most wineries have tasting tours and some good food.
Again I think NAPCAR once they have done a little research may change their mind.
Some of their current tracks are starting to hurt from dropping attendance and Canada is NAPCAR crazy.

[MDS]

NASCAR said no.


Still, Thibert said investors and local officials have been in negotiations with other racing leagues. He said he couldn’t identify them yet.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081017/SPORTS01/810170447/1004/SPORTS

Obviously they are negotiating with the Canadian Tire series but the only other racing series in the world that races on ovals is the IRL. I wonder if this track is the reason Loudon wasn't on the schedule this year?

[call_me_andrew]

I wonder if this track is the reason Loudon wasn't on the schedule this year?

That really came down to the date. Someone wanted August, the other wanted July, and they just couldn't reach an agreement.

What ever happened to that Sanair track I've heard so much about?

[The instant classic]

i am from canada, and i must say 99.9% of canadians dont give a damn about racing, racing is not a big thing up here, as everyone knows canadians love there hockey, there is no race fans here, maybe a small bunch, i went to the champcar race last year, and the fans that i studd beside couldnt tell you anything about the drivers, they tough PT was the leader but he went out at lap 1, so as a Canadian race fan, trying to bulid a oval here is pointless sad to say

[Easy Drifter]

IRLfan: Ever been to a stock car race? They usually pack the joint. When the WoO come to Oshweken the place sells out days in advance and that is on dirt.
Umpteen local tracks run every Fri. and Sat. nights in Ont. and Quebec especially.

[The instant classic]

IRLfan: Ever been to a stock car race? They usually pack the joint. When the WoO come to Oshweken the place sells out days in advance and that is on dirt.
Umpteen local tracks run every Fri. and Sat. nights in Ont. and Quebec especially.
i have but that was in 2002 at Cayuga Speedway for some stock car racing, that was awsome, but that was the last time i went to a canadian track till last year, and was just shock over the lack of fans, but stock car racing is bigger then open well i can see why no fans showed up,
i havent been to that stock car race you talk about yet, i fell away from stock car racing in 2003, but every week now im getting more into again, and in alot of ways falling away from indycar/open weel racing :eek:
but i will for sure,,check out that track, i love watching the fri and sat daynight guys race, i rember watching David Ragan,,Clint Bowyer,, and yes the evil Kyle Busch :devil: ( on tv but still watching them) and see the stars they are now,

[Easy Drifter]

The WoO is not stock cars. It is winged 850HP sprint cars on dirt. They race 50 to 60 times a year all over NA.

[call_me_andrew]

As I recall, WoO does have a late model stock car series now.

[Easy Drifter]

You are right although most people sort of ignore it and really only pay attn. to the Sprint Cars.

[Mark in Oshawa]

To say Canada isn't into racing is to ignore the success of the Toronto races, the big crowds in Edmonton and Vancouver for CART and the obvious packing of the house every time the cars hit Circuit Gilles Villeneuve.

What these guys building this oval are attempting to do is what the builders of Kentucky, Iowa or any of the more recent ovals want and that is attract a NASCAR date from one of the three big series.

The obvious success of NASCAR in Montreal finally opened up the eyes of those idiots in Daytona Beach to the market up here and if they have a first class oval up here to run their Nationwide Date on, Montreal might have a hard time hanging onto the race since it is the preference of NASCAR to be on ovals. They go to road courses mainly because the market they are trying to reach doesn't have an oval with the infrastructure they need.

The reasons are obvious why an oval like this would work in theory. The Market is more than ready for NASCAR up here and although the IRL would look at it, I think this track is being marketed with NASCAR in mind. There are the millions very close, NASCAR has said they are courting the Canadian market with the domestic series and the Nationwide date in Montreal. The location is great for Americans coming north and the size of the oval sounds like a rational idea considering people have soured on Cookie cutter 1.5 mile race tracks.

That said, this is a gamble and when the economy is going south, I cant see it.

This proposal is still a long shot and that is the reality. I have heard big names attached to ovals up here before and a shovel full of dirt was never even moved. I will believe this when I see it. I think if this proposal came along 15 years ago, it would have been a success. Now? not sure....


The market for ovals is saturated.....for either the IRL or NASCAR and lets face the reality a track nowadays needs BOTH forms of racing to pay for the costs of building....

[Chaparral66]

OMG! Canadians want to build an oval racetrack?? :D

[Mark in Oshawa]

Chap....we have lots of ovals. Short Track stock racing is big in Ontario and most of the country really. We have dirt ovals and bullrings that are paved. The issue has always been the chicken and egg story. If someone ploughed up 500 acres and dropped a quarter billion to build a first class oval with a mile or so and 100000 seats, would the IRL and NASCAR give them a race? 20 odd years ago if such a facility existed in Southern Ontario, there is no doubt in my mind the Molson Indy would have been on this oval and NASCAR may have given Canada that Cup date many people know would work up here.

The problem is no one in Canada had taken that risk and with the tradition of racing at the CNE grounds for OW cars, I now wonder if an OW oval race would work here. Any oval in this market would be aiming towards NASCAR.

This oval proposal is like a lot that have popped up over the years. There is a market of major proportions in Southern Ontario that has proven to support racing but no one is quite prepared to gamble the money it would require. They say they have Arab investors for this...but in the light of the liquidity crisis in the banking world....do you really think any race tracks of this size have a shot of getting off the ground in the next 3 years?

[Chaparral66]

Chap....we have lots of ovals. Short Track stock racing is big in Ontario and most of the country really. We have dirt ovals and bullrings that are paved. The issue has always been the chicken and egg story. If someone ploughed up 500 acres and dropped a quarter billion to build a first class oval with a mile or so and 100000 seats, would the IRL and NASCAR give them a race? 20 odd years ago if such a facility existed in Southern Ontario, there is no doubt in my mind the Molson Indy would have been on this oval and NASCAR may have given Canada that Cup date many people know would work up here.

The problem is no one in Canada had taken that risk and with the tradition of racing at the CNE grounds for OW cars, I now wonder if an OW oval race would work here. Any oval in this market would be aiming towards NASCAR.

This oval proposal is like a lot that have popped up over the years. There is a market of major proportions in Southern Ontario that has proven to support racing but no one is quite prepared to gamble the money it would require. They say they have Arab investors for this...but in the light of the liquidity crisis in the banking world....do you really think any race tracks of this size have a shot of getting off the ground in the next 3 years?

I'm kidding Mark, I know Canada has a strong short track tradition. In fact, what I liked about the old CASCAR was that the short trackers also raced on roadcourses, giving them a variety that short trackers down here don't get exposed to nearly as much. If memory serves, CASCAR held races at several CART events.

Seriously, if you build an oval in Canada, I think you're right, it would have to be one that would attract NASCAR, but that doesn't mean it couldn't hold an IRL event, once a NASCAR date is established. Both series have raced at the same venues plenty of times in the US, no reason it couldn't work up North, especially in Ontario. But I agree that the financial state of affairs here in North America need to settle down before serious consideration can begin.