Silly Season 2008-2009

[gloomyDAY]

First of all, haha beat you to it! :p :

Second, let's take a look at the driver's who are confirmed for 2009:

Ferrari - Kimi and Massa :up:
McLaren - Kovy and Lewy
Renault - No one has been confirmed.
BMW - Same as above.
RBR - Webber and Vettel :champion:
STR - Unknown even though Bourdais deserves another year.
Honda - :rotflmao: Bunsen? and someone else to throw in the meat grinder.
Toyota - Glock and Trulli
Williams - Rosy and Naka
Force India - Fisi and Sutil again? :rolleyes:

[Brutor]

My bets:

McLaren: Hamilton and Kovalainen
Ferrari: Massa and Raikkonen
BMW: Heidfeld and Kubica
Renault: Alonso and di Grassi
Toyota: Glock and Trulli
RBR: Webber and Vettel
STR: Buemi and Bourdais (I doubt Berger will bring another rookie driver to race alongside Buemi, based on that i believe the main contenders to the spot are Sato and Bourdais. I'd give 50% to each one, although i think Bourdais deserves another year)
Honda: Barrichello and Button
Williams: Rosberg and Nakajima
Force India: Fisichella and Sutil (maybe Chandhok?)

It basically depends on what Alonso will choose, if he chooses to stay at Renault this will probably result in the fewest number of changes on the grid over the past years, but if he chooses to move, that might change the lineups of 3 or 4 teams.

[Sleeper]

I think Kubica's already confirmed at BMW on a one year contract.

[Ranger]

Confirmed:
McLaren: Hamilton and Kovalainen
Ferrari: Raikkonen and Massa
Toyota: Trulli and Glock
Red Bull: Webber and Vettel
Williams: Rosberg and Nakajima
Force India: Sutil and Fisichella (I still wonder why oh why Sutil and Fisi are confirmed for another year.)

Unconfirmed:
Honda: depends on Alonso.
BMW: Kubica and maybe Alonso.
Renault: Maybe Alonso and Piquet or di Grassi
STR: Maybe Bourdais and probably Buemi.

Pretty straight-faced this season, methinks.

[truefan72]

oddly enough, Sato may find himself right back at Honda if Bourdais stays at STR

[pino]

Force India: Sutil and Fisichella (I still wonder why oh why Sutil and Fisi are confirmed for another year.)



Where and when did you read that Sutil and Fisi were confirmed ? :confused:

[Ranger]

Where and when did you read that Sutil and Fisi were confirmed ? :confused:
In August:

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/article/1218456106/formula_one/F1headlines/Force-India-to-retain-drivers-for-2009/view.html

Aug.11 (GMM) Force India is likely to field the same race driver lineup in 2009, high profile co-owner Vijay Mallya has said.

Mallya, the billionaire Indian businessman, told F1's official website that he is "happy" with both Giancarlo Fisichella and Adrian Sutil.

Which would seem pretty confirmed to me.

[pino]

In August:

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/article/1218456106/formula_one/F1headlines/Force-India-to-retain-drivers-for-2009/view.html


Which would seem pretty confirmed to me.

I wouldn't trust him, F1 Boss changes mind every day...wait and see ;)

[jens]

I'm quite hesitant about what Honda should do about Barrichello. He has driven a respectable season, but... I think Button needs a new and younger team-mate to push his motivation. Button knows that whatever he is doing, Barrichello - whose career is going to end soon anyway - will never become Honda's priority (and they won't sack him before Rubens). Against a newcomer Button would need to prove himself and his status as a No.1 driver in the team.

And secondly - last year Red Bull already made a mistake by signing Coulthard for one season too much. Honda must be cautious not to keep Barrichello "for too long".

About Force India. I think their line-up is quite OK for a backmarker team. Neither of them are worldbeaters, but a red lantern couldn't afford those anyway. I'd like to see Liuzzi getting another shot though.

[Garry Walker]

I'd like to see Liuzzi getting another shot though.

Why? He had his shot, he blew it bigtime.
I don`t understand the obsession so many people have with that guy at all.

[jens]

Liuzzi matched Vettel in dry races at the end of 2007. One might argue that Vettel has improved since then though - but how much? Tonio may be inconsistent, but he can be very quick on his day. I don't expect Liuzzi to be a title contender, but he is good enough to race in F1. I think it may have been forgotten by folks, but in his very first race in F1 - Imola 2005 - Liuzzi beat the experienced Coulthard throughout the weekend. If this didn't prove he is quick, then what would? Liuzzi didn't "blow his chance bigtime" - if he had been destroyed by his team-mate, then yes, but it didn't happen. As long as he hasn't been beaten, the question "what if" always remains...

[gloomyDAY]

I'll have to agree with Garry over Liuzzi.

Give someone else a shot in F1.
There are plenty of stones left unturned.

What do you guys think about Nico Hulkenberg?

[ioan]

Liuzzi matched Vettel in dry races at the end of 2007.

Stop right there. Are you comparing a guy with 2 seasons in f1 with one who only did a handful of races at the end of last season?

As Garry said Liuzzi got his chance and proved nothing, "0".

[Roamy]

liuzzi couldn' beat scott speed regularly so bring speed back

[gloomyDAY]

liuzzi couldn' beat scott speed regularly so bring speed back :rolleyes: Enough! He's in America and let him stay.

Can we please move on? Thanks.

[jens]

What Liuzzi should have done to prove himself? And don't say he should have destroyed Speed. Maybe Speed was good too. :D


Stop right there. Are you comparing a guy with 2 seasons in f1 with one who only did a handful of races at the end of last season?

I haven't said Liuzzi is generally as good as Vettel (taking experience-factor into account, of course), but I'm saying he's not as bad as people are making him look like.

In the first few races Liuzzi beat Vettel quite easily and Vettel started matching Liuzzi in the last few races, when he was more comfortable in the car.

Bourdais has been trashed by Vettel way more badly than Liuzzi ever was, and yet I find it amazing how much defence and praise Bourdais gets despite his enormous inconsistency. I don't think that heavily criticized Liuzzi is any worse than Bourdais - maybe he is even better.

[keysersoze]

I wonder if Renault would take Button back? They've taken drivers for a second go-round before, and he'd be a better #2 for Fernando than Piquet or Buemi, IMO.

[Brutor]

I wonder if Renault would take Button back? They've taken drivers for a second go-round before, and he'd be a better #2 for Fernando than Piquet or Buemi, IMO.

At this point i'm starting to believe that whoever Reanult chooses to be Alonso's team-mate is gonna be a better decision than keeping Piquet. I mean, the guy can barely progress through Q1 and crashes almost every race. If Kovalainen had the exact same results of Piquet last season, he would've been already fired.

[aryan]

If Kovalainen had the exact same results of Piquet last season, he would've been already fired.

More than once.

That guy doesn't deserve to be in F1. Pure and simple. No matter what his father's name is.

RB also needs to go. He is old, and will do nothing spectacular. Give Bunsen a young new gun to beat (maybe Senna) and if he can't do it consistently, then throw him out too!

[gloomyDAY]

More than once.

That guy doesn't deserve to be in F1. Pure and simple. No matter what his father's name is.

RB also needs to go. He is old, and will do nothing spectacular. Give Bunsen a young new gun to beat (maybe Senna) and if he can't do it consistently, then throw him out too! :up: Yes, why is it so hard to get the also-rans out of F1?

[ShiftingGears]

:up: Yes, why is it so hard to get the also-rans out of F1?

Because the team bosses know what they're getting.

[ioan]

What Liuzzi should have done to prove himself? And don't say he should have destroyed Speed. Maybe Speed was good too. :D

None of them is bad. Even Yuji Ide was better than many other racers. That doesn't mean there is place for every talented driver in F1.

[ioan]

BMW confirms Heidfeld and Kubica for 2009 and also Klien as 3rd driver.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71185

[christophulus]

Looks pretty certain that Alonso is staying at Renault then.. not exactly a dramatic change next year!

[PolePosition_1]

liuzzi couldn' beat scott speed regularly so bring speed back

Yeah I agree, I liked Scott Speed, he definately deserves a place within F1. I heard a rumour he is doing very well in Nascar at the moment, can anyone confirm and give some more information on this?

[PolePosition_1]

Bourdais has been trashed by Vettel way more badly than Liuzzi ever was, and yet I find it amazing how much defence and praise Bourdais gets despite his enormous inconsistency. I don't think that heavily criticized Liuzzi is any worse than Bourdais - maybe he is even better.


Whilst its impossible to deny that Vettel has been the top dog at STR this season. Bourdais has in fairness had all the bad luck.

Just think, we have Australia, Belguim and Monza, where Bourdais has lost out on a handful of points. His 4 points could quite easily be closer to the 20 points mark.

I hope he stays in F1. I read a rumour of him going to Renault, however I find that highly unlikely, though would be really happy if it was true.

[wedge]

Looks pretty certain that Alonso is staying at Renault then.. not exactly a dramatic change next year!

Honda still haven't officially announced next year's drivers.

[Leon]

Honda still haven't officially announced next year's drivers.

Neither Toro Rosso and Force India

[Roamy]

Yeah I agree, I liked Scott Speed, he definately deserves a place within F1. I heard a rumour he is doing very well in Nascar at the moment, can anyone confirm and give some more information on this?

He has won many ARCA races this year and is leading the championship. He will make his cup debut next week

[Roamy]

:rolleyes: Enough! He's in America and let him stay.

Can we please move on? Thanks.

Get a grip - F1 is a international even and if one can take the time to talk about luizzi then mentioning speed who showed very well against him fits well into the conversation. So why don't you take your anti-American bullsh!t and move on!!!

[Brutor]

Both Speed and Luizzi had their chances to impress, but never showed themselves to be anything special. I agree they never had a good car, but i think that a true good driver can still stand out in poor equipment. Like Alonso in 2001 for example, in one season with Minardi he made it clear he had something special.

To be honest, i'd pick Klien over Luizzi and Speed although i recognize he also had his chances and failed to make a good impression.

[Roamy]

well I am a bit in disagreement. I think it takes a while to drive a F1 car. Matter of fact even if you change teams there is a definite adjustment of many races to get 100 percent on form. We are talking the pinnacle here and most guys even at the bottom don't have may flys on them.
So a couple of things with Toro Rosso. I think they have made excellent strides moving the car up the ladder. Vettel has be with them when most of the improvement came. SB is really not that far behind in only his first season. Liuzzi did have many races and much testing so iMO he should have really kicked speed's ass handily - As I recall he did not. With respect to Klien I think he has shown great speed at time but somehow fails to deliver, much like davidson. I really think the proper way to approach F1 is as a solid tester for a year before going live. The windows in f1 are pretty short for drivers so they need to maximize skills before the flag drop or they are less likely to take many chances and that will ultimately reduce their opportunity for the spotlight.

[ShiftingGears]

Get a grip - F1 is a international even and if one can take the time to talk about luizzi then mentioning speed who showed very well against him fits well into the conversation. So why don't you take your anti-American bullsh!t and move on!!!

If Speed's highlight is being about as good as Liuzzi then its not exactly the best reasoning to bring him back to F1, is it?

[gloomyDAY]

Get a grip - F1 is a international even and if one can take the time to talk about luizzi then mentioning speed who showed very well against him fits well into the conversation. So why don't you take your anti-American bullsh!t and move on!!!Anti-American? :laugh: That's a first!

Listen, I don't care about his nationality. Speed was the 'real deal' when at STR but getting into a fight with your team manager basically black balls you from achieving any greater success within the sport. Speed just needed better management and was basically mishandled goods. Can we move on?


BMW confirms Heidfeld and Kubica for 2009 and also Klien as 3rd driver.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71185So much for the silly season.

[truefan72]

Anti-American? :laugh: That's a first!

Listen, I don't care about his nationality. Speed was the 'real deal' when at STR but getting into a fight with your team manager basically black balls you from achieving any greater success within the sport. Speed just needed better management and was basically mishandled goods. Can we move on?


he didn't get into a fight with the team manager. the guy basically assaulted Speed and was lucky not to be charged with anything. Speed was deserving of an F1 seat but had the unfortunate curcumstance of being a Red bull young driver. All of them were uncerimoniously dumped by the team and the only one to succeed so far was Vettel, who luckily learned his paces at BMW. If he had started out at STR for the entire year and had gotten outclassed by Liuzzi like he was in the few races they drove together he too would have been prematurely gotten rid off as well.

The one thing we know about RBR/STR is that they have mishandled every driver from their stable of young talent. While at the same time providing a useless car until Ferrari decided to give STR the same spec engines as the SF team.

[gloomyDAY]

he didn't get into a fight with the team manager. the guy basically assaulted Speed and was lucky not to be charged with anything. Speed was deserving of an F1 seat but had the unfortunate curcumstance of being a Red bull young driver. All of them were uncerimoniously dumped by the team and the only one to succeed so far was Vettel, who luckily learned his paces at BMW. If he had started out at STR for the entire year and had gotten outclassed by Liuzzi like he was in the few races they drove together he too would have been prematurely gotten rid off as well.

The one thing we know about RBR/STR is that they have mishandled every driver from their stable of young talent. While at the same time providing a useless car until Ferrari decided to give STR the same spec engines as the SF team.Yes, Tost was overboard. I couldn't believe that a team manager could assault one of his drivers. What can you do? Speed didn't get a fair shot at STR and no one else wanted to take a chance on his skills. Now, can we move on?

[Roamy]

where are we moving on to? bring up another subject before Speed has his cup debut and we need to re-discuss how good he is!!

[gloomyDAY]

where are we moving on to? bring up another subject before Speed has his cup debut and we need to re-discuss how good he is!!Read the title... :p

Any input on BMW's decision to retain Nicky? Think Alonso will go anywhere besides Renault?

[ioan]

The one thing we know about RBR/STR is that they have mishandled every driver from their stable of young talent. While at the same time providing a useless car until Ferrari decided to give STR the same spec engines as the SF team.

Yeah sure! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Any input on BMW's decision to retain Nicky?

There's another thread on this topic.



Think Alonso will go anywhere besides Renault?

No, he will not.

[jens]

Talking about Liuzzi again. Well, as I said I don't consider him as a top drawer nor I am looking forward to see him in a top team. But why are you against of seeing him at Force India?

People are positive about Nakajima and Bourdais, who are getting beaten by their team-mates.
Even Klien gets defence, who got clearly beaten by Webber and - by a lesser extent - by DC.

Unlike those, Liuzzi hasn't been beaten by a team-mate. It's true that Liuzzi hasn't had a proper yardstick yet, but this is exactly why a final conclusive assessment can't be given about him. If he got trashed by someone, I would have no problem saying that he doesn't deserve to be in F1. But it hasn't happened yet.

If Liuzzi drives for FI alongside either of current drivers, then we would finally get a proper comparison. Fisichella is a proven driver and Sutil is becoming one too (due to being paired with GF). If Liuzzi beats either of them (not an unlikely scenario IMO), then he would cement his position as a regular race driver in F1.

About di Resta. Isn't he going to drive for Force India in case they get Mercedes engines? I doubt it'll happen in 2009 (too little time for engine change), but maybe 2010 after a season in GP2?

[gloomyDAY]

Paul di Resta is getting a crack at the McLaren machinery soon.

How long before he stops wasting time in DTM and hops over to F1?

[keysersoze]

Silly Season update:

I know its only the first practice, but with the Renault's recent form and Alonso in P2, it seems very unlikely Fernando will leave. The team is on the upswing. It's also clear that they need a better #2, and keeping Nelson seems like a clear mistake. Are they refusing to make an announcement about him in order to make him seem valuable to other teams, like . . .

. . . Toro Rosso. This team would be taking a big risk to lose both drivers, but Berger seems inclined to risk losing Bourdais.

Rubens admits for the first time that he thinks he may not get renewed. Would Honda risk a new driver?

Nothing confirmed at Force India, and perhaps the new engine partnership throws both drivers' positions in jeopardy, contract or not.

[gloomyDAY]

Good call on Alonso and Renault. Upswing? You bet! Two consecutive wins is probably going to give Alonso plenty of motivation for next season and it looks as if Renault have the means to produce another competitive car. I'm hoping 2009 turns out to be one hell of a great time.

How many teams are still floating about with unconfirmed drivers?

[pettersolberg29]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_4349127,00.html

Semi - confirmation of Sutil and Fisi staying at Force India.

[jens]

So Paul di Resta is at best going to be a test driver in 2009 if Force India switches to Mercedes engines?

[truefan72]

still thinking that vettel is better served staying at STR.
bourdais and vettel make up probably the 4th strongest lineup right now.

hopefully vettel is looking through all the fine print in his contract looking for a way out. Perhaps that's what is taking STR so long to announce their 2009 lineups

[F1boat]

I heard that Honda hope to get Alonso. I hope that Fred will stay at Renault. I'd also like if they keep Nelson, because the Brazilian is improving in the second part of the season.

[Valve Bounce]

I heard that Honda hope to get Alonso. .

They got two chances: slim & fat

[truefan72]

They got two chances: slim & fat
yep at the rate of Renaults improvement, Alonso would be foolish to jump ship. I suspect that next year, they will continue their battle with BMW and along with STR ( if they maintain theor current level) will join Mclaren and Ferrar as locks for the first 10 grid positions going into every race.


the same cannot be said for Honda.

[Valve Bounce]

yep at the rate of Renaults improvement, Alonso would be foolish to jump ship. I suspect that next year, they will continue their battle with BMW and along with STR ( if they maintain theor current level) will join Mclaren and Ferrar as locks for the first 10 grid positions going into every race.


the same cannot be said for Honda.

Leaving Renault to join Honda would be like sneaking from the jetty onto the Titanic.

[ShiftingGears]

This silly season isn't very silly.

[markabilly]

Anti-American? :laugh: That's a first!

Listen, I don't care about his nationality. Speed was the 'real deal' when at STR but getting into a fight with your team manager basically black balls you from achieving any greater success within the sport. Speed just needed better management and was basically mishandled goods. Can we move on?

So much for the silly season.


What is wrong with YOU??

How dare you speak such about Scot not Speddie?

Seems to me you need a little sunshine to ungloom your gloomy day...

[markabilly]

he didn't get into a fight with the team manager. the guy basically assaulted Speed and was lucky not to be charged with anything. Speed was deserving of an F1 seat but had the unfortunate curcumstance of being a Red bull young driver. All of them were uncerimoniously dumped by the team and the only one to succeed so far was Vettel, who luckily learned his paces at BMW. If he had started out at STR for the entire year and had gotten outclassed by Liuzzi like he was in the few races they drove together he too would have been prematurely gotten rid off as well.

The one thing we know about RBR/STR is that they have mishandled every driver from their stable of young talent. While at the same time providing a useless car until Ferrari decided to give STR the same spec engines as the SF team.

Amen brother Yankee!!

[Valve Bounce]

What is wrong with YOU??

How dare you speak such about Scot not Speddie?

Seems to me you need a little sunshine to ungloom your gloomy day...

Needs kool aid. :beer:

[gloomyDAY]

*crickets* *crickets*

[F1boat]

Any news about di Resta?

[gloomyDAY]

Anything on Honda's picks?

[Valve Bounce]

Anything on Honda's picks?

Last I heard, they had in mind Huey and Louey, with Dewey as test driver.

[Madmonk]

If Alonso stays put, this silly season isn't going to be very silly:

Barrichello gets replaced by Sato or Senna at Honda.
There's an open Toro Rosso seat for Doornbos, Buemi or Jani.
I think Piquet holds on at Renault.
Sutil, Winkelhock, De La Rosa, Paffett, and Karthikeyan all have a shot at Force India.

If Alonso moves to Honda (for some reason), all heck breaks lose.

[Hawkmoon]

If Alonso stays put, this silly season isn't going to be very silly:

Barrichello gets replaced by Sato or Senna at Honda.
There's an open Toro Rosso seat for Doornbos, Buemi or Jani.
I think Piquet holds on at Renault.
Sutil, Winkelhock, De La Rosa, Paffett, and Karthikeyan all have a shot at Force India.

If Alonso moves to Honda (for some reason), all heck breaks lose.

Renault have confirmed both Alonso and Piquet.

Honda have one seat alongside Button but even the Brit is yet to be confirmed.

STR and FI haven't confirmed their lineups so in theory there are still 5 seats up for grabs.

I personally don't think we'll see any changes. Vettel's move and DC's retirement could be the only changes from '08 to '09 with Beumi taking the vacant STR drive. Bourdais stays at STR with Honda and FI keeping their lineups intact. The only change may be a McLaren-Mercedes influenced change at FI.

[gloomyDAY]

Force India confirmed Sutil and Fisi.

Now it's only Honda & STR up in the air.

[gloomyDAY]

Force India confirmed Sutil and Fisi.

Now it's only Honda & STR up in the air.STR is going to be the year of the Seb's again. Not much of a musical chairs game this silly season. Everyone is pretty much static from last year (except for Honda). :)