Sutil & Ferrari

[hmmm - donuts]

In pitstops at both Valencia and Singapore, Massa was released into the path (or nearly into the path) of Sutil. At Singapore, it appeared that Sutil hit the barriers whilst trying to avoid Massa who was recovering from a spin. And at Monaco, Sutil was shunted out of the race by Kimi. Sutil must think he's on a Ferrari hit list!

[yodasarmpit]

I was actually surprised Massa wasn't penalised for causing Sutil to crash at Singapore, though his race was over so a penalty wouldn't have done anything anyway.

[truefan72]

I was actually surprised Massa wasn't penalised for causing Sutil to crash at Singapore, though his race was over so a penalty wouldn't have done anything anyway.

It could/should have been reviewd and if deemed unsafe driving that caused the accident of another driver, he should expect a 5 grid demotion for the next race. Trust me if it had been a McLaren that spun, then corrected themselves into oncoming traffic, we would have seen a different outcome.

Heidfeld was given a 3 grid demotion for affecting a driver's ability to perform. Massa should be reviewed for contribution to the end of a drivers race.

Wait till it happens to a non Ferrari car that causes a ferrari to crash out, then the rules will miraculously change and these incidents will be now classified as inappropriate.

[F1boat]

Yes, the evil emperor Maxpaltine and his Ferrari lackeys have now an eeeevil plot against Sutil and hurting him they will hurt somehow noble British Knight Lewis the Lionheart. Cunning is Maxpaltine, for he punished Massa himself for his failure at Sepang, giving him a stop/go penalty. Little McLaren knew, that somehow this is against Lewis as well...
Sorry about that, but I am really tired from this topics and yet they annoy me, so I need to comment them ;)

[ioan]

It could/should have been reviewd and if deemed unsafe driving that caused the accident of another driver, he should expect a 5 grid demotion for the next race. Trust me if it had been a McLaren that spun, then corrected themselves into oncoming traffic, we would have seen a different outcome..

What a load of manure.

[ShiftingGears]

I was actually surprised Massa wasn't penalised for causing Sutil to crash at Singapore, though his race was over so a penalty wouldn't have done anything anyway.

How did he cause Sutil to crash? Sutil went into the corner too hot regardless of anything Massa did.

[truefan72]

How did he cause Sutil to crash? Sutil went into the corner too hot regardless of anything Massa did.

not really, he was on the ideal line into the corner and just as he turned into it, there was mass, he had to break and avoid outright hitting him,therefore he went into the barrier. I'll try and find the onboard footage of Sutil which demonstrates that clearly.

It was hardly sutil's ineptitude that caused the accident but more of an avoidance resulting in a crash.

[truefan72]

What a load of manure.

which of course is used as a magnificent fertilizer. So yeah, it's a good point.
spin your car, then correct it without regard to the lap traffic and cause and accident is at the very least warranted an investigative review by the stewards.

Trust me if it were Hamilton who did that move, you would have been all over him like a cheap suit, accusing him of being boneheaded, dangerous driving, disregard for competitors, and would have happily sung the praises of the stewards who would have issued him a penalty for dangerous driving, so spare the pomposity about the proposition of a warranted review of the incident, just because its a Ferrari and your favorite driver.

[truefan72]

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7hMNH1J6Q

sutil had to avoid mass, no room to turn the car properly and crash.

and the situation was completely blind to him until the very last second

[truefan72]

and sutil's comments

"I think it was a good race as the race pace was good and I felt really confident in the car. We lost a little in the first safety car period as we were a little too late coming into the pits but after that it was nice to be able to push. It was just so unlucky when Felipe spun in front of me and then suddenly pulled away. The way was blocked, but I avoided a crash with him only to go into the barrier myself. It's really disappointing as we've had so much bad luck already this year. It's Fuji next though, which I really enjoy and know I can perform well on."

[hmmm - donuts]

Difficult one to call - not sure it was worthy of punishment, but certainly worthy of investigation.

[truefan72]

Difficult one to call - not sure it was worthy of punishment, but certainly worthy of investigation.

...and that's all I was asking for.
it was worthy of an investigastion

[Knock-on]

I feel sorry for AS.

Massa could see back up the track and still pulled out causing an avoidable accident.

Yet no investigation... probably because Massa didn't gain a competitive advantage :D

[wmcot]

...and that's all I was asking for.
it was worthy of an investigastion

OK, in the interest of fairness, let's add 25 seconds to Massa's finishing time. Happy now? :)

[Valve Bounce]

What a load of manure.

Yeah!! but where there's manure, there's gotta be a pony!! :)

[truefan72]

OK, in the interest of fairness, let's add 25 seconds to Massa's finishing time. Happy now? :)

just because massa was out of the points in this race doesn't mean the incident shouldn't be reviewed/adjudicated accordingly. He still is in contention for the WDC and WCC so whatever they choose to do invariably affects the overall competition.

When LH crashed into the back of Raikkonen, ending his and Kimi's race they didn't slap a 25 second penalty on them since they were out of the points and finished. They didn't hand down a time penalty to Rosberg either.

A grid place penalty would be warranted if he was found to have caused the accident by his own negligence, which would represent the typical ruling of ending another drivers race by negligence.

But this is all trivial since nothing happened.And my only point was that at the very least it should have been under investigation. But since it is a Ferrari and a Force India, the Stewards of course typically choose to do nothing.

Can you honestly tell me that if it were LH who spun and then corrected himself with oncoming traffic, causing Massa or Kimi to crash out that we wouldn't have 10 pages of post and most likely an LH penalty.
Many would be applauding the Stewards, while others would be crying foul, and the FIa would have come out with some new clarification as to drivers reentering the race after a spin.

[woody2goody]

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7hMNH1J6Q

sutil had to avoid mass, no room to turn the car properly and crash.

and the situation was completely blind to him until the very last second

Yep, it's Massa's fault, but I think he doesn't deserve a penalty as he couldn't help WHERE he spun.

However if another car gets a penalty for a similar thing in future then I will reverse my opinion.

[truefan72]

Yep, it's Massa's fault, but I think he doesn't deserve a penalty as he couldn't help WHERE he spun.

However if another car gets a penalty for a similar thing in future then I will reverse my opinion.

fair enough :up:

[Knock-on]

just because massa was out of the points in this race doesn't mean the incident shouldn't be reviewed/adjudicated accordingly. He still is in contention for the WDC and WCC so whatever they choose to do invariably affects the overall competition.

When LH crashed into the back of Raikkonen, ending his and Kimi's race they didn't slap a 25 second penalty on them since they were out of the points and finished. They didn't hand down a time penalty to Rosberg either.

A grid place penalty would be warranted if he was found to have caused the accident by his own negligence, which would represent the typical ruling of ending another drivers race by negligence.

But this is all trivial since nothing happened.And my only point was that at the very least it should have been under investigation. But since it is a Ferrari and a Force India, the Stewards of course typically choose to do nothing.

Can you honestly tell me that if it were LH who spun and then corrected himself with oncoming traffic, causing Massa or Kimi to crash out that we wouldn't have 10 pages of post and most likely an LH penalty.
Many would be applauding the Stewards, while others would be crying foul, and the FIa would have come out with some new clarification as to drivers reentering the race after a spin.

If Massa had of stayed where he was, Sutil would have gone past and Massa could have rejoined so his actions caused an avoidable accident that put another competitor out.

This is similar to the pit incident where Lewis put Kimi out and rightly received a penalty but because it's a Ferrari in this incident and only Sutil, it's not investigated.

As Woody says, we will see if the FIA choose to penalise a non Ferrari in the future.

[markabilly]

Yes, he wou;ld get a penalty but then the WDC might become all LH---whcih would not bother Bernie nor Max, but there are too many races left, and all that revenue that might be lost, so forget it boys.....


But I just love all this penalty stuff....keeps thos lawyers working hard on their appeals.......(old lawyers never die, they just lose their appeal..)