And here I thought ratings were terrible!

[Wilf]

ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 - For the 17 races on the IndyCar Series schedule last year, race viewership averaged 1.7 million across the three networks, which was a 21.4 percent increase over the 2007 season (1.4 million).

Separately, ABC averaged 2.7 million viewers for its seven IndyCar Series races, up 10.1 percent for the same number of races in 2007 (2.5 million); ESPN averaged 707,000 viewers for four races, up 27.2 percent compared to the five races run in the 2007 season (556,000). ESPN2 averaged 892,000 viewers for its five races in the 2008 season, which was a 53.5 percent increase over the 2007 average (581,000).

So the integration of the two series did have a positive result, maybe something that can be improved next year. At least the trend is going in the right direction.

[Damon]

And yet ESPN/ESPN2 aren't broadcasting the other 13 races for 2009 and ABC has cut back from 7 races this year to 5 races for 2009.


I'll be curious to see how the viewership comes out on Versus at season's end next year.

[indycool]

Hard to tell. I've been watching a lot of cable in general lately and I've noticed HEAVY show promotion on all the networks and SOME promotion on one network for another network's shows. If part of the deal for Versus is a promotion trade or advertising say, on TNT, A&E, TBS, USA (or even the ESPN networks), that could be valuable in punching up the deal early.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ask a hockey fan how well being on VERSUS has worked for the NHL. It SUCKS and the fact that the series finally is unified now should have made ESPN hang in instead of going to VERSUS for some of the races.

The fact the ratings are up is of no surprise. For all of those who told me for years and years there was no reason for a unified series, I point only to the 21 percent increase in TV ratings. If stubborn stupid people were not running out sport on both sides we wouldn't talk of Indycar racing on Versus, we would be talking about how our sport was the equal or better of NASCAR on TV.

I don't like hearing Versus is going to be carrying any races. My hockey watching buddies in the US despise the lack of availablity Versus has. You cant get ratings if half the country doens't get your station....

[The instant classic]

i wolud love to say, omg indycar is getting bigger and better, but the increase over 2007, is nothing more then the ex champcar fans now having to watch indycar, if the ratings increase next year, then for sure indycar is getting bigger and better

[SarahFan]

ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 - For the 17 races on the IndyCar Series schedule last year, race viewership averaged 1.7 million across the three networks, which was a 21.4 percent increase over the 2007 season (1.4 million).

Separately, ABC averaged 2.7 million viewers for its seven IndyCar Series races, up 10.1 percent for the same number of races in 2007 (2.5 million); ESPN averaged 707,000 viewers for four races, up 27.2 percent compared to the five races run in the 2007 season (556,000). ESPN2 averaged 892,000 viewers for its five races in the 2008 season, which was a 53.5 percent increase over the 2007 average (581,000).

So the integration of the two series did have a positive result, maybe something that can be improved next year. At least the trend is going in the right direction.




2007 on the left, 2008 on the right. I'm no mathematician, but eyeballing these numbers, the ratings look flat overall from 2007. Overall they're just crappy ratings that tend to shift up and down slightly but no real significant gains or losses. It's possible Olympics brought ratings down here and there. I threw these into "rough" order by race, may be off by a week here and there. Ratings are primarily from wikipedia nielsens:

.7 Homestead .8
.6 St Pete .4
.4 Motegi .27 rainout .33 re-air
.3 Kansas .74
4.3 Indy 4.5
1.0 Milwaukee .8
.7 Texas 1.0
1.0 Watkins Glen 1.1
1.1 Iowa 1.1
.6 Richmond .9
1.7 Mid Ohio 1.3
Edmonton (can't find ratings)
.4 Nashville .5
.6 Kentucky .43* (overnight, not final)
.6 Sonoma .41
1.0 Belle Isle .9
.9 Chicago .8


^they are terrible....and those #'s don't wash with the alleged increases.....things that make you go hmmmm

[Chris R]

I cannot see a good reason to doubt the ratings released by ABC/ESPN - why would they lie?
Therefore - it is a nice boost from last year - here's hoping the Versus deal is better than I think.....

[SarahFan]

released by ABC/ESPN -.

were they?

[SarahFan]

if ratings increased by 21% in a single unified season you have to ask: why did ABC/ESPN forego the final year of there contract?

again....things that make you go hmmmmmm

[NickFalzone]

I'll comment on this thread, since those are my numbers used in the side by side list above. My numbers are not likely to be as accurate as the ESPN/ABC numbers that were published at the top of this thread. Mine came from Wikipedia and were often based on "overnights" or predicted numbers based on a smaller sample. There's no source I could find of actual final #'s on all races, since they're often on cable and during afternoons, which regular nielsen listings like USA Today don't include.

The numbers that suggest an increase of 21% were reported on IndyCar.com the other day. What I will say is that just because IndyCar says their numbers were up, does not mean that is entirely true either. But are the likely to be more accurate than mine? Yes.

And as far as whether a rating increase would be a likely reason for ESPN to stay with the IRL, I don't think it was as simple as that. For one thing, it was a rating increase of 21% (maybe) but it's still a crappy set of numbers well below Nascar Cup or even regular Nationwide ratings. Additionally, you do not know the details of the VS or the ESPN deals. It IS possible that people high up at the IRL were offered OK money to continue with ESPN, and alternatively better money to go with VS, as well as longer airtimes on VS, more promotion, etc. And they went for the latter. I doubt that ESPN outright said "we're not broadcasting anymore IndyCar" and the IRL was stuck with VS. There were different options on the table and IRL folks went with the change. Personally I'm looking forward to the VS coverage as ESPN's has gotten pretty stale.

[call_me_andrew]

i wolud love to say, omg indycar is getting bigger and better, but the increase over 2007, is nothing more then the ex champcar fans now having to watch indycar, if the ratings increase next year, then for sure indycar is getting bigger and better

To date, I had assumed that Champ Car fans had not made the switch out of snobishness. For me, this is a surprise!

[The instant classic]

To date, I had assumed that Champ Car fans had not made the switch out of snobishness. For me, this is a surprise!
i know some champcar fans that have switch not many,, seems like half the champcar fans jummp on F1, but thats just what someone told me, and the other half jummp on indycar, but im just telling a 2nd hand story :mark:

[anthonyvop]

Cost is a major factor.
Covering a race costs $$$. Just count the camera's.

Now if you have an IRL race and it gets a 1.0 rating and compare that to something like Women's Beach Volleyball with an equal rating but costs much less to produce what would you choose if you were ABC/ESPN?

[champcarray]

Now, now Andrew, don't start the thread down that path!

As someone else on the thread has implied, the numbers should be up vs '07 simply because many CCWS-only fans (and I was one of them) are now watching the ICS races. I think the million dollar questions are:
- Have a significant number of other new fans have been captured?
- Can the series continue to grow the numbers in '09 on VS to meet their sponsors' insatiable desire for eyeballs?

[F1boat]

ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 - For the 17 races on the IndyCar Series schedule last year, race viewership averaged 1.7 million across the three networks, which was a 21.4 percent increase over the 2007 season (1.4 million).

Separately, ABC averaged 2.7 million viewers for its seven IndyCar Series races, up 10.1 percent for the same number of races in 2007 (2.5 million); ESPN averaged 707,000 viewers for four races, up 27.2 percent compared to the five races run in the 2007 season (556,000). ESPN2 averaged 892,000 viewers for its five races in the 2008 season, which was a 53.5 percent increase over the 2007 average (581,000).

So the integration of the two series did have a positive result, maybe something that can be improved next year. At least the trend is going in the right direction.

Nice. I hope that the series will continue to improve.

[FormerFF]

To date, I had assumed that Champ Car fans had not made the switch out of snobishness. For me, this is a surprise!


I was a CC only fan. I've watched about half the races this year. For me, the Saturday night races are the best, as I'm usually at home then. I also try to see the road and street races. I didn't watch the 500 when CC was around, and still don't. There's too much going on that weekend to find four hours to watch an oval race.

[indycool]

Pretty hard to tell, really. For example, the folks at F-Troop probably watch so that they can pick out stuff to complain to each other about.

But realistically, fans are drawn to drivers and many postings on all the fora are Graham Rahal fans, Oriol Servia fans, Justin Wilson fans, etc. And the competitors and teams themselves are pleased to have one series and THEY aren't grumping, so their followers are probably still following them.

[Cart750hp]

Sucks that Versus will run most races next year. Oh well, we'll see how this one goes.

[Mark in Oshawa]

CART, remember my post. VS covers the NHL now and every hockey fan south of the border that I know has panned the fact they are on VS because it isn't always available in all areas. Some cable companies don't carry it and some packages have it as a last option that most people and/or hotels don't go for. The numbers will be down just based on the number of sets available.

The fact ABC/ESPN just woke up to the fact OW numbers are not as big as they would like AFTER the merger says to me that they finally woke up and realized the only events they wanted to justify the cost of would be the ones that will get the ratings that cover the cost, hence only taking 6 dates.

I don't like this TV package AT all......but then again, at least in Canada I will see all the races. Last year of CCWS it was hit and miss to find the races so I suppose things could be a lot worse.

[Jacques]

ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 - For the 17 races on the IndyCar Series schedule last year, race viewership averaged 1.7 million across the three networks, which was a 21.4 percent increase over the 2007 season (1.4 million).

Separately, ABC averaged 2.7 million viewers for its seven IndyCar Series races, up 10.1 percent for the same number of races in 2007 (2.5 million); ESPN averaged 707,000 viewers for four races, up 27.2 percent compared to the five races run in the 2007 season (556,000). ESPN2 averaged 892,000 viewers for its five races in the 2008 season, which was a 53.5 percent increase over the 2007 average (581,000).

So the integration of the two series did have a positive result, maybe something that can be improved next year. At least the trend is going in the right direction.
The news may not be as good as they initially look.

Since Indy went from a 4.3 to a 4.5 rating, this translates to an increase of about 200,000 viewers. This alone may explain the "increase" for ABC races (from 2.5 million to 2.7 million), and for the bulk of the year's increase.

This may also explain why, despite a "21% increase," ABC still decided to drop Indy Racing. If the only thing of value, even after the merger, is Indy, then ABC may have decided to pay only for Indy and some selected races. The other 13 races are throw aways.

Is that still good news even after the merger ?

[Cart750hp]

Is that still good news even after the merger ?

Better news than the past 4 years of CC and past 4 years of IRL combined, yes.

What would be your option?

[Wilf]

The news may not be as good as they initially look.

Since Indy went from a 4.3 to a 4.5 rating, this translates to an increase of about 200,000 viewers. This alone may explain the "increase" for ABC races (from 2.5 million to 2.7 million), and for the bulk of the year's increase.



Except, in order for the average increase to go up 200,000 there had to have been an increase of 1.4 million viewers over those seven races. Producers will kill to gain a single percentage point. This is a significant improvement, not just for Indy but also for the other 6 races.

An awful lot of promotion work must be done to make the move to VERSUS work and I imagine it is going to be ugly early on, but if they realize this is going to be a long haul and plan their efforts correspondingly we could return to 1 million viewers weekly by the end of the season.

[indycool]

Well said, Wilf.....and we don't know that anybody "dropped" anybody.

[Jacques]

The point is that things are not as rosy as the Indy site makes them to be. Then, of course, that "optimism" could be another thing that was copied from CC.

It is not a matter of what "the option" could be; it is a matter that things need to improve, and they will not improve if people continue to fool themselves as CC used to do to itself.

Apparently, other than the same old fans, no one else seems to be so impressed by the merger - real sponsors, even less so.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Spin all you want boys. The ratings can mean anything you want but when ABC/ESPN gives half the series or better to VS, it is bad news. Ask American hockey fans...

[-Helix-]

Ask a hockey fan how well being on VERSUS has worked for the NHL.

Pretty damn good, why? The NHL went from ESPN not giving a rats behind about it after the lockout to having ESPN banging on the league's door the past year trying to get them back. I'd say that's a pretty good sign. (Though to be fair a change in management at ESPN has something to do with that. But they can't ignore the massive potential the NHL has now with Crosby and Ovechkin mania. Not to mention record high ratings last year with two of the most popular teams in the league meeting in the finals.)

The NHL on ESPN was HORRIBLE. Easier to find, yes. But ratings are about the same and we don't have to put up with golf highlights during intermissions and absolutely no coverage outside the actual game broadcasts.

Versus is a major upgrade and as a hockey fan I'm very glad the decision was made to move to a network that would treat the sport with respect and provide extended coverage never even dreamed possible back on ESPN.

Since you're Canadian I guess you don't realize just how bad ESPN was and how much of an improvement Versus is. Versus' coverage is probably subpar from a Canadian perspective but down here it's pretty much the best we've ever had.

Also, I've seen a TON of NHL on Versus commercials the past couple weeks (season just started tonight). If they do the same for IndyCar people should be pretty aware of where to tune in.

[Jacques]

Pretty damn good, why? The NHL went from ESPN not giving a rats behind about it after the lockout to having ESPN banging on the league's door the past year trying to get them back. I'd say that's a pretty good sign. (Though to be fair a change in management at ESPN has something to do with that. But they can't ignore the massive potential the NHL has now with Crosby and Ovechkin mania. Not to mention record high ratings last year with two of the most popular teams in the league meeting in the finals.)

The NHL on ESPN was HORRIBLE. Easier to find, yes. But ratings are about the same and we don't have to put up with golf highlights during intermissions and absolutely no coverage outside the actual game broadcasts.

Versus is a major upgrade and as a hockey fan I'm very glad the decision was made to move to a network that would treat the sport with respect and provide extended coverage never even dreamed possible back on ESPN.

Since you're Canadian I guess you don't realize just how bad ESPN was and how much of an improvement Versus is. Versus' coverage is probably subpar from a Canadian perspective but down here it's pretty much the best we've ever had.

Also, I've seen a TON of NHL on Versus commercials the past couple weeks (season just started tonight). If they do the same for IndyCar people should be pretty aware of where to tune in.

The average Hockey rating, iirc, decreased from 0.6 to 0.2 points when it went to Versus. Is that something good ? :confused:

[Damon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_NHL_on_Versus#Ratings


I do like the fact that the new president of Versus is excited about IndyCar racing and what they can potentially do for it though, we'll just have to see.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6604531.html



Davis also thinks Versus will drive a hit with IRL. In August, the network inked a 10-year pact with the racing circuit calling for a minimum of 13 races annually, plus a pit full of ancillary programming.

“[Indy cars] have been around a lot longer than NASCAR. We’re going to spend more time with the telecasts. We’re going to educate the viewers, expose them to more elements of the sport. There will be profile on the racers, including Danica Patrick,” he said. “There is going to be all kinds of programming during May leading up to the Indy 500. IRL absolutely has huge potential.”

[-Helix-]

The average Hockey rating, iirc, decreased from 0.6 to 0.2 points when it went to Versus. Is that something good ? :confused:

...

NHL on ESPN average: ~0.5
NHL on ESPN2 average: ~0.2
NHL on Versus average: ~0.3

hardly a major dropoff. and actually BETTER than ESPN2 which showed most of the games. So yes, I would say that is something good.

Not to mention the far better coverage is worth the 0.2 difference between Versus and ESPN.

[SarahFan]

...

NHL on ESPN average: ~0.5
NHL on ESPN2 average: ~0.2
NHL on Versus average: ~0.3

hardly a major dropoff. and actually BETTER than ESPN2 which showed most of the games. So yes, I would say that is something good.

Not to mention the far better coverage is worth the 0.2 difference between Versus and ESPN.


zero.5.3.2...

and there is some sort of argument "FOR" ratings not being crappy


give me a friggin break

[BobbyC]

Comcast (NASDAQ: CMCSA) is packaging Versus along with The Golf Channel, which airs the PGA Tour FedEx Cup first two rounds, selected winter tournaments, and the Fall Series as a package where many cable companies are required to carry Versus if they want The Golf Channel.

TGC and VS are both Comcast entities. Also appealing for Versus, especially in the South is their coverage of the Professional Bull Riders, and fortunately for VS, PBR and IRL can interact. Despite Adriano Moraes' retirement at the end of 2008, there is a group of great Brazilian bull riders who could cross-promote IRL races, and IRL drivers who can promote the PBR. Can you imagine Marchi, de Olivera, or any of the other bull riders coming to the IRL garage to promote the PBR on VS, and IRL drivers at the PBR events?

Texas Motor Speedway could easily do a PBR-IRL cross-promotion at the Fort Worth Stockyards, where the track promotes their races with events there.

Comcast is positioning Versus as a formidable competitor to ESPN, and Versus is crucial in BCS discussions -- Pac-10 and Big 12 games -- and also the Mountain West (the big BCS Buster conference) and the historic Ivy League is covered by VS.

Keep in mind too that the blackout rules for VS are different for the NHL than on ESPN.

[FormerFF]

...

NHL on ESPN average: ~0.5
NHL on ESPN2 average: ~0.2
NHL on Versus average: ~0.3

hardly a major dropoff. and actually BETTER than ESPN2 which showed most of the games. So yes, I would say that is something good.

Not to mention the far better coverage is worth the 0.2 difference between Versus and ESPN.

When comparing ratings, don't forget that the ratings base is measured against the number of households that the channel is available to. Since Versus was in about 25 percent fewer housholds than ESPN2, the total number of people viewing was about the same on Versus and ESPN2.

[seppefan]

i know some champcar fans that have switch not many,, seems like half the champcar fans jummp on F1, but thats just what someone told me, and the other half jummp on indycar, but im just telling a 2nd hand story :mark: #

Those that jumped to F1 will jump back after Bourdais was given the crazy penalty yesterday.

[Pat Wiatrowski]

#

Those that jumped to F1 will jump back after Bourdais was given the crazy penalty yesterday.

NOT TRUE! Many ChampCar fans were F1 fans also and will NOT be watching the .irl, SB or no SB.

[-Helix-]

zero.5.3.2...

and there is some sort of argument "FOR" ratings not being crappy


give me a friggin break

Well, in hockey's case you have to remember that they show one game which involves only two teams on one night where there might be 20 teams playing. Not to mention teams play up to 4 games a week so the ratings aren't going to be that high obviously. One regular season game in a sport that plays 84 regular season games just isn't that big of a deal.

IndyCar has less of an excuse though considering they only have one event a week in which everyone takes part in.

[-Helix-]

When comparing ratings, don't forget that the ratings base is measured against the number of households that the channel is available to. Since Versus was in about 25 percent fewer housholds than ESPN2, the total number of people viewing was about the same on Versus and ESPN2.

Uhm... no? I don't think you understand how Neilsen Ratings work. A 0.5 indicates 0.5% of TOTAL TV owning households are tuned in. The channel it's on has nothing to do with the rating.

It wouldn't make any sense the way you were describing it. Then networks would want LESS exposure so they could get better ratings...

[SarahFan]

Well, in hockey's case you have to remember that they show one game which involves only two teams on one night where there might be 20 teams playing. Not to mention teams play up to 4 games a week so the ratings aren't going to be that high obviously. One regular season game in a sport that plays 84 regular season games just isn't that big of a deal.

IndyCar has less of an excuse though considering they only have one event a week in which everyone takes part in.


.5.3.2

[call_me_andrew]

It does make sense. If the total number of viewers is unchanged, and the reach of your broadcaster decreases, then your fanbase is likely growing.

[-Helix-]

.5.3.2

Your debate techniques continue to amaze me.

And by debate techniques I mean arrogance.

[SarahFan]

Your debate techniques continue to amaze me.

And by debate techniques I mean arrogance.

.5

.3

.2


those are the #'s you are trying to rationalize......end of debate