DONKEY of the race

[markabilly]

Race is not over, but clearly the donkey of the race must be, without any doubt, whoever (or whatever) turned the red to green for Massa.

What the heck???????


So if the wdc goes to someone other than Massa.........what a joke.

Last year massa ran out out of gas trying to qualify....so that is just about par

[MrJan]

Hardly a joke. It's about being a team and if your team isn't good enough then you can't win the WDC. Annoying for Massa but nothing he can do about it and it's just one of those things that creates a World Championship.

[Daika]

His name is Kimi.

[ioan]

Ferrari team are Donkeys all but the drivers.

[johngordon]

Massa looked fantastic today, his quali time was on sheer pace and not low fuel as expected. That semi auto pit system needs binning. Its hard being a ferrari fan this season, the organised well oiled team that has been around for the last few years has been replaced by chimps in red suits. There is still a chance for massa but it pains me to realise this as it is just going to be thrown back in my face by ferraris current incompitence.

[F1boat]

Kimi Raikkonen.

[Daniel]

The guy who designed the system for ferrari.

[herra47]

Kimi 2009 DHL champion..

[veeten]

Let's face facts, it was a team effort to screw up that badly. Silverstone looked like a great achievement compared to this. :s

[gm99]

Ferrari team are Donkeys all but the drivers.

Well, Kimi didn't exactly cover himself in glory today, either, did he?

[yodasarmpit]

This week it goes to Ferrari, Mass and Kimi

Ferrari for the pit system.
Massa for pulling out in front of the Force India when he hit the tyre wall, forcing Sutil into the tyres.
And finally Kimi for screwing up what chance the team had for points, he gets the fastest lap again, but is no where in the race.

[Garry Walker]

Well, Kimi didn't exactly cover himself in glory today, either, did he?

But he got screwed pretty badly by idiotic rules, yes?
So did Massa.

[Garry Walker]

but is no where in the race.

Did you watch the race or were you drinking?

Kimi was in 3rd, with more fuel than Hamilton and fastest man on track before the SC. Massa or Kimi would have won the race and 1-2 was likely. Now both of them got screwed by rules thought up by idiots.

[ShiftingGears]

Well, the donkey of the race definitely wasn't one of the drivers.

[Nikki Katz]

Aside from whatever idiot invented Ferrari's pit device, for me the Ferrari drivers weren't as bad as they have been. Massa was totally dominant until Piquet's accident. After that he did seem to give up a bit, but aside from being pretty much last he also had an unknown amount of fuel in the car due to the pit incident, which slowed him nicely for a lap or so. The spin at the end was a bit silly though. Raikkonen had to queue behind Massa in the pits, which explains his lowly place for much of the race. He again set the obligatory fastest lap when it really didn't matter. The only thing you can really throw at him was his crash a few laps from the end, which while a little careless, was at a corner that the organisers seem to have built to create an accident.

My donkey of the race was Kovalainen. While he was in the end closer to the points than the Ferraris, Raikkonen queuing behind Massa's awful stop didn't seem to affect him anywhere near as much as Kovalainen, who emerged towards the back and stayed there. Unless that's just because Ferrari don't look when releasing their drivers in the pits :)

[yodasarmpit]

Did you watch the race or were you drinking?

Kimi was in 3rd, with more fuel than Hamilton and fastest man on track before the SC. Massa or Kimi would have won the race and 1-2 was likely. Now both of them got screwed by rules thought up by idiots.
Holly ****, crashing out is not a good result.
Maybe I should have worded it, "ended up no where"

Ferrari and bad driving respectively killed both Massa's and Kimi's chances.
The team, with the pit system, hurt Massa.
Kimi shot himself in the foot.

[yodasarmpit]

My donkey of the race was Kovalainen. While he was in the end closer to the points than the Ferraris, Raikkonen queuing behind Massa's awful stop didn't seem to affect him anywhere near as much as Kovalainen, who emerged towards the back and stayed there. Unless that's just because Ferrari don't look when releasing their drivers in the pits :)
Actually you have a point, Kova was awful, I'd forgotten all about him as he was almost no existent during the race (again)

[wedge]

Rubens Barrichello - tried to throw his gloves into the crowd but instead it flew into the sea! :D

[Garry Walker]

Holly ****, crashing out is not a good result.
Maybe I should have worded it, "ended up no where"

Ferrari and bad driving respectively killed both Massa's and Kimi's chances.
The team, with the pit system, hurt Massa.
Kimi shot himself in the foot.

Kimi lost the most amongst of all drivers due to the SC, with the exception of Kubica and Massa, because he had to queue up behind Massa and due to the general mess with Massas pitstop, he lost even more there.
Massa and Kimi deserved to be the 1-2 today, but bad luck due to idiotic rules cost them.

[JSH]

The designer/builder of the FIA controlled refuelling equipment. There have been waay too many issues related to them this season.

[janneppi]

My donkey of the race was Kovalainen. While he was in the end closer to the points than the Ferraris, Raikkonen queuing behind Massa's awful stop didn't seem to affect him anywhere near as much as Kovalainen, who emerged towards the back and stayed there. Unless that's just because Ferrari don't look when releasing their drivers in the pits :)
Kovalainen lost few places in the start after banging wheels with Kubica. He ended just ahead of Kimi after the first pitstop, passed one or two cars but since he had less fuel than räikkönen, wasn't in a position to pit as late. Not a good race by any means, but far better than let's say Piquet jr's, who started it all. ;)

[gm99]

The designer/builder of the FIA controlled refuelling equipment. There have been waay too many issues related to them this season.

I don't think the refuelling rig is to blame for Massa's problem, he was just released by his team before the nozzle had been removed from his car.

[janneppi]

My donkey of the race was Kovalainen. While he was in the end closer to the points than the Ferraris, Raikkonen queuing behind Massa's awful stop didn't seem to affect him anywhere near as much as Kovalainen, who emerged towards the back and stayed there. Unless that's just because Ferrari don't look when releasing their drivers in the pits :)

Kovalainen lost few places in the start after banging wheels with Kubica. He ended just ahead of Kimi after the first pitstop, passed one or two cars but since he had less fuel than räikkönen, wasn't in a position to pit as late. Not a good race by any means, but far better than let's say Piquet jr's, who started it all. ;)

[Mickey T]

Massa and Kimi deserved to be the 1-2 today, but bad luck due to idiotic rules cost them.

Garry, the same rules applied equally to every car in the race and ferrari knew about them long before they went to singapore.

instead of blaming the rules, shouldn't you be blaming the team's management of the circumstances those rules generate?

after all, hamilton contrived to finish third with the same set of rules from roughly the same track position as the two ferrari drivers.

[VkmSpouge]

Pretty much the entire Ferrari team including the drivers. Both Massa and Raikkonen looked very good early on before the safety car...and then it just all fell apart in so many ways. When Felipe Massa has a bad day he really has a bad day. While Raikkonen had played himself quite well into a good 5th place, he threw it away and into the wall. Ferrari will be thankful that Hamilton's lead is just 7 points and McLaren's lead is just 1.

[Mickey T]

Kovalainen lost few places in the start after banging wheels with Kubica. He ended just ahead of Kimi after the first pitstop, passed one or two cars but since he had less fuel than räikkönen, wasn't in a position to pit as late. Not a good race by any means, but far better than let's say Piquet jr's, who started it all. ;)

kovalainen was there?

barely noticed him.

i'd have to give it to Kimi. again.

that was a pure brain-fade crash from someone with his mind elsewhere.

[elinagr]

Ferrari Team And Kimi ( Lol )

[Mickey T]

oh, and the director in the first half of the race was especially deserving of a mention.

you looked at the times in the strip at the bottom and saw close fights all the way through the field. lots going on, people jousting and closing on other people and we saw none of it, except in replay form.

you looked at the screen and you saw a ferrari or a mclaren all on its own, looking like it was qualifying.

dull as, until a soon-to-be-ex f1 driver rescued a dull telecast.

[janneppi]

after all, hamilton contrived to finish third with the same set of rules from roughly the same track position as the two ferrari drivers.
Massa would have propably been ahead of Hamilton, or at least right there with him if it weren't for the fuel hose.
And Kimi had no hopes for a win since he had to wait for Massa to pit first. He probably lost a bit of time and places in Massa's aftermath with mechanics gathering themselves from the ground.

Kimi's off was a rookie mistake, so sucks to him.

[truefan72]

DC for holding up LH... relax kidding

It will have to go to the pit crews of Ferrari and RBR, then kim, then Kovaleinen for doing nothing in the race.

[Jag_Warrior]

The guy who designed the system for ferrari.

I agree with that! ^

Whoever designed that light system and whoever decided to keep it, once it proved to have (serious) issues.

[Dave B]

Massa and Kimi deserved to be the 1-2 today, but bad luck due to idiotic rules cost them.
Were we watching the same race? Poor pit-stop management and driving mistakes cost them dearly today - they may even have thrown away the constructors' championship.

[Daniel]

Were we watching the same race? Poor pit-stop management and driving mistakes cost them dearly today - they may even have thrown away the constructors' championship.
I'd have to agree. I didn't see any rules which hurt Ferrari. Just their own stupidity and relying on technology for technologies sake :mark:

[Corny]

Simply Ferrari..

[Sarah]

Kimi

[jens]

Safety car rules? ;)

Among drivers... As a fan of Jarno, I will happily nominate him as a candidate. :D Although it can be acknowledged that he was only one of two drivers, who was on a 1-stopper, which was obviously a clearly slower strategy on this particular circuit, then Trulli never seemed competitive during the weekend and it looked like he didn't seem ready for the challenge of a night race and a very exhausting race in such way. In most weekends he has been driving well this year, but this was clearly a disappointing performance and he needs to raise his game for the last three rounds. And he got passed a bit easily today too, although obviously it's quite difficult to block, when you're several seconds a lap slower. :p : I don't know, what the name of the corner was, where he got passed on a few occasions, but I was surprised he never took a defensive line there, which looked strange and untrulliesque. Maybe considering the pace he had already lost belief of getting anywhere and was just hoping for a safety car.

Well maybe Piquet can be nominated as donkey... oh wait, he is actually the driver of the race, because he is a real team player and helped team-mate Alonso to a race win from an impossible situation. ;)

Interesting that Kimi made a similar mistake like at Monaco - in P5 with three laps to go... thankfully he didn't hit the driver ahead of him (Glock) this time. Street circuits don't seem to be Kimi's strength - at least after the ban of driver aids...

[Robinho]

mr pit release light thingy designer

[jso1985]

Rubens Barrichello - tried to throw his gloves into the crowd but instead it flew into the sea! :D
He should have been arrested for enviromental damage :p


But he got screwed pretty badly by idiotic rules, yes?
So did Massa.

For the record, Kimi would have got screwed by any SC rules, current or old ones.

and how the hell did Massa get affected by it?

[Zico]

mr pit release light thingy designer

I dont think you can blame him.. its the person who chose to keep it after it became aparent that it was flawed.. it seems the mk1 eyeball is still the best and most reliable method.

As someone mentioned previously, keep the light system but hang a big LCD screen in front of the driver with 180 Deg view showing exactly whats happening with the pit crew behind him and at an angle where he can see any cars coming down the pitlane, that way you remove the reaction time/release decision choice of the lolipop man/light system.. and its the drivers fault if he impedes any other cars exiting the pits.... sorted.



Donkey(s) of the race... Ferrari full stop.

[aryan]

Scuderia Ferrari deserve the glorious crown. No doubt about that.

Kimi. Where is he? Is he on drugs or something? He sets fastest laps, and then it seems his mind wanders away...

Piquet. He doesn't deserve to be in Formula 1. Waste of seat.

Heikki. Lack of race craft.

Truli. Opting for a one-stop strategy and thinking that he could spend half the race on super-soft tyres which barely last 2 laps.

[CNR]

I don't think the refuelling rig is to blame for Massa's problem, he was just released by his team before the nozzle had been removed from his car.

maybe the refueler was expecting the nozzle to come out so he pressed the button to say he had finished but the nozzle got stuck.

[Ranger]

Apart from the slow-witted stewards and Ferrari, Jarno and his strategy man for a failure of simple logic. High-graining option tyres will not last 20 laps, yet alone thirty!! Although I suppose, causing a 10+ car train that holds up the Force India's has got to be some sort of acheivement in today's F1.

[truefan72]

Scuderia Ferrari deserve the glorious crown. No doubt about that.

Kimi. Where is he? Is he on drugs or something? He sets fastest laps, and then it seems his mind wanders away...

Piquet. He doesn't deserve to be in Formula 1. Waste of seat.

Heikki. Lack of race craft.

Truli. Opting for a one-stop strategy and thinking that he could spend half the race on super-soft tyres which barely last 2 laps.

sorta agree with everything you say, except. I still think kimi is a top 3 driver. Having an off year and will bounce back nicely next year, when the fire returns to his belly.

But spot on with everything else. I've tried to give NPJR the benefit of the doubt all year and he was pretty good in GP2 as well, but I do think that he is over matched in F1 and seems like out of all the 22 drivers who started the year, the least deserving of his seat. Perhaps the Renault team managment philospohy of motivation by pressure isn't the ideal situation for him...or any driver for that matter. The only one who seems to have flourished these past years under their system was Alonso. Despite that being said, Nelson still has not produced sanse his one fluke podium.

[longisland]

Rubens Barrichello - tried to throw his gloves into the crowd but instead it flew into the sea! :D

I wonder if Rubens will get a fine for littering from the Singaporean government?

[ioan]

Well, Kimi didn't exactly cover himself in glory today, either, did he?

Compared to the chimps in red from the pits Kimi is still doing great!

[aryan]

sorta agree with everything you say, except. I still think kimi is a top 3 driver. Having an off year and will bounce back nicely next year, when the fire returns to his belly.
.

Well, I pray you are right. He is still my favourite driver, you know... I'm not happy about his form this season, but he is still fast, really fast, and it's all a matter of having his head in the right place.

[Storm]

Ferrari team for effectively ending their teams chances in the WDC and WCC

[MAX_THRUST]

Ferrari press man for denying the light was not green when we had all seen it was green....

[jens]

Ferrari team for effectively ending their teams chances in the WDC and WCC

Well, in the WCC they are only 1 point behind, so it's not possible to say it's already over!

Here was also a mention about a 1-stop strategy. While it was clearly slow, I think it was used purely together with the hope of a safety car and as we saw, under those conditions Jarno would have finished 5th without car failure. Safety car is an issue in F1 these days and strategists have to take this into account. The same can be said about Alonso's strategy. Starting from the second half of the grid to make an early pitstop would have made absolutely no sense in "normal racing conditions" - they must have hoped for a SC too.

[SGWilko]

maybe the refueler was expecting the nozzle to come out so he pressed the button to say he had finished but the nozzle got stuck.

Do me a favour - how often do we see sticky nozzles (is this the p0rn thread? ;) ), they should take that into account, and not give the all clear UNTIL the nozzle is free.

If I remember correctly, this phenomenon is termed as 'common sense'.

[ioan]

Well, in the WCC they are only 1 point behind, so it's not possible to say it's already over!

I knew you would say this. Still I would like to know why do you keep defending them while they are slowly but very surely losing it.

[Knock-on]

The Ferrari team get this award collectively.

After a great qualifying, they were in prime position. Massa's Ferrari was head and shoulders above the McLaren and even Kimi decided to wake up before the second half of the race. Must be something to do with it being held at night.

OK, the poor lad on the rig made a cock-up which would have cost Massa about 30 seconds but why the hell weren't his pit crew racing down the pit to sort him out.They could have been there in 20 seconds and had him off after 30, still in with a chance of some points. It seemed to take twice that!!

Then we have Massa himself. We all hear these excuses that it's the tyres, or the brakes or whatever but he looked pathetic for the rest of the race. He was the fastest driver at that circuit in the fastest car but he gave up. At least kimi tried to stay in the fight until he picked up the last part of the Donkey award for going to sleep early instead of winning his team a couple of vital points.

So, it's Ferrari for me although an honorary mention for HK yet again. Ron knows a lot more than me but I do question just what job he's doing for the team at the moment?

[JSH]

I don't think the refuelling rig is to blame for Massa's problem, he was just released by his team before the nozzle had been removed from his car.

Well I gotta check the Ferrari press releases, but when the crew caught up to Massa at the end of pitlane they had alot of trouble getting the nozzle out... was it like that originally or if the whole incident caused it to jam is the next question, but later in the race there was someone else(can't remember who) having trouble getting the nozzle out.

IMO, they seem to be on the ragged edge of having nozzles that jam. Someone needs to revisit the tolerance stack.

[ioan]

IMO, they seem to be on the ragged edge of having nozzles that jam. Someone needs to revisit the tolerance stack.

Exactly!
Also the teams should try them out again and again and make sure that everything works perfectly. What use is there to make a perfectly balanced race car spending hundreds of millions if a stuck refueling nozzle will mean you lose everything?

[Knock-on]

Well I gotta check the Ferrari press releases, but when the crew caught up to Massa at the end of pitlane they had alot of trouble getting the nozzle out... was it like that originally or if the whole incident caused it to jam is the next question, but later in the race there was someone else(can't remember who) having trouble getting the nozzle out.

IMO, they seem to be on the ragged edge of having nozzles that jam. Someone needs to revisit the tolerance stack.

I don't think that they had tried to remove it before the green light so don't think that was the problem.

Occasionally they do stick a bit but that could be because the pit try to remove it a fraction skewed or something.

Generally, after an interesting start with them, they seem to have got out most of the bugs and they seem very reliable so tolerance seems fine.

I still don't know why we had 3 fires one GP but making them any looser fitting could contribute to more.

Fortunately the emergency release worked perfectly and the crew were OK but there was obviously a sharp tug on the rig and holder which I suggest is why they had problems removing the hose.

[jens]

I knew you would say this. Still I would like to know why do you keep defending them while they are slowly but very surely losing it.


Surely Ferrari has weaknesses in several areas, but points-wise they aren't out of the game, are they? Since mid-season McLaren has slowly but surely closed the gap on Ferrari, but 2008 has been quite a strange season and anything can still happen. It's not like McLaren has been performing flawlessly either. Heck, I wouldn't be even surprised if BMW-Sauber won the WCC this year. :p : Only 15 points behind and if they manange a 1-2 at Fuji raced in monsoon conditions, then who knows?! :p :

I'd say 2009 may well be a more critical year for Ferrrari than 2008 - will they be able to keep their title-challenging form in the future...?

[Garry Walker]

Compared to the chimps in red from the pits Kimi is still doing great!

You know, you are being too hard on the Ferrari guys. There really is no reason to call them chimps, because they made one mistake. Did you call Massa a chimp when he spun out at Malaysia? What about when he just kept spinning out like a moron at Silverstone? What about when Kimi drove like an idiot at Valencia or when he crashed out yesterday? These things happen. Both Felipe and Kimi have to be glad that they have the luck to be driving for such a team with such a fast car, getting paid so much money.
Of course, the team has made mistakes. But so have the drivers. So you should do as Felipe and Kimi do and have the "we win as a team, we lose as a team" mentality. Not the "screw ferrari, they are chimps" attitude.

[Knock-on]

You know, you are being too hard on the Ferrari guys. There really is no reason to call them chimps, because they made one mistake. Did you call Massa a chimp when he spun out at Malaysia? What about when he just kept spinning out like a moron at Silverstone? What about when Kimi drove like an idiot at Valencia or when he crashed out yesterday? These things happen. Both Felipe and Kimi have to be glad that they have the luck to be driving for such a team with such a fast car, getting paid so much money.
Of course, the team has made mistakes. But so have the drivers. So you should do as Felipe and Kimi do and have the "we win as a team, we lose as a team" mentality. Not the "screw ferrari, they are chimps" attitude.

:up:

Totally agree with this.

Ferrari had a bad day at the office but they are still there and will bounce back.

Massa took it on the chin and publicly came out and refused to criticise the poor sod that made a mistake. Showed good character.

Perhaps his fans could find a fraction of the class Massa showed and get behind their team when things are hard rather than kick them when they're down?

[Garry Walker]

Massa took it on the chin and publicly came out and refused to criticise the poor sod that made a mistake. Showed good character.

Perhaps his fans could find a fraction of the class Massa showed and get behind their team when things are hard rather than kick them when they're down?

Exactly.

Massa, I am sure, would also not like the type of attacks Ferrari has been subjected to here today and yesterday.
As a Ferrari fan, I call for calmness and optimism.

[ioan]

You know, you are being too hard on the Ferrari guys. There really is no reason to call them chimps, because they made one mistake. Did you call Massa a chimp when he spun out at Malaysia? What about when he just kept spinning out like a moron at Silverstone? What about when Kimi drove like an idiot at Valencia or when he crashed out yesterday? These things happen. Both Felipe and Kimi have to be glad that they have the luck to be driving for such a team with such a fast car, getting paid so much money.
Of course, the team has made mistakes. But so have the drivers. So you should do as Felipe and Kimi do and have the "we win as a team, we lose as a team" mentality. Not the "screw ferrari, they are chimps" attitude.

You might think they deserve praise, I think they don't and above all I have a problem with the management of the team, because so many mistakes (I already lost count of them so many they did) can't be put on the back of individual team members.

[F1boat]

It is funny that few years ago it was the McLaren and the Williams mechanicns which made such stupid mistakes and even the Renault guys (Hungaroring 06). Now, sadly, it's Ferrari's turn... :(