800 billion vs F1

[markabilly]

In one week, the usa intends to increase its national debt by about 20 percent to bail out banks--700 to 800 billion gone buying something worth nothing. This year's budget will now go up about 25%, the deficit for this year will go from 400,000 billion to 1,200,000 billion (or 1.2 trillion--three times larger than any other yearly deficit), national debt will go from 2.7 trillion to 3.4 trillion. All in about a week...

It was that or another depression so they say. The two equally worthless presidential candidates are arguing about whose tax cut is greater, while if taxes were raised 30% across the board, it might come close to paying off the increased deficit and about 40%, it would remove this year's deficit......http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy07/sheets/hist01z1.xls ......Anyway or maybe they will just print more money so it will not be like anything actually was paid, the national debt stays the same.....but back to important stuff....like does Lewis have a "for-real" girlfriend or is it just for show???

[gloomyDAY]

Feels as if the U.S. financial institution is about to get the rugged pulled from their feet! Unfortunately, there has been a lot of infighting on both sides of the aisles between Democrats and Republicans. President Bush wants this approved immediately without any court oversight or strings attached. Others, mainly Democrats, would like there to be clauses to help the middle class keep their homes. Washington is broken and neither candidate has the bollocks to make a comment on the future bill. Shame...

Oh wait, didn't Angelina Jolie get a new hair dresser? Like, oh my God!

[Tazio]

It's time to "stock" up boys, and girls!
With guns, gold, gasoline, and water! :(

I hear Paris has a new Tat' ;)
on her hoochie :p :

[Jag_Warrior]

The estimates of $700-800 billion to bail out the various financial institutions are probably low, according to several economists. The final bill will likely top $1 trillion, especially if the Big 3 auto makers get in line for their turn at the public feeding trough and the economy doesn't begin making a turn for the better by year end. Meanwhile, Alan Greenspan claims that neither candidate's economic ideas will work longer term, especially McCain's, since his plan dismisses tax increases, does not cut spending and takes money out of the Treasury to fund tax cuts. So basically, any way you cut it, we're screwed.

But I hear that Britney Spears has cut back to two packs a day. Go Britney, go! :bounce:

[markabilly]

When both parties were arguing ten days ago about whose TAX CUT (ranging from 10 to 20% depending on income) was bigger and better as their chief economic policy for what will cure all problems, (okay Obama also says let us use the oil reserve to be even more dependant on the middle east, while McCain says let us just go nuclear power all the way), I said these guys are both totally clueless.

Greenspan is right about will happen, but his stupid policies were a major cause of the problems that have been creeping up for the last ten to 15 years............buying short term happiness in exchange for long term getting screwed.

and for the rest of the world, all week the european and russian markets were reflecting the same problems.

[Rollo]

Why the USA needs a military budget of nearly 8 times that of China and about the same as the rest of the world combined is totally beyond me. $515bn is a base and recurrring amount and probably is somewhere in the order of about 3-4% of GDP.

[Tazio]

Why the USA needs a military budget of nearly 8 times that of China and about the same as the rest of the world combined is totally beyond me. $515bn is a base and recurrring amount and probably is somewhere in the order of about 3-4% of GDP.One hundred billion is spent on (not so) clandestine activities in other sovereign nations.
The rest is to make sure WE have our dumb @$$es covered if they retaliate! :beer:

[Mark]

I think I'll just go and and spend millions of pounds on credit and when they start asking for it back I'll get the government to bail me out :mark:

[rah]

I think I'll just go and and spend millions of pounds on credit and when they start asking for it back I'll get the government to bail me out :mark:

Don't be so conservative. You should spend billions. The governments have so much money, they won't mind. This is capitalism at its finest.

[ioan]

So, if the government doesn't bail the finances out of the sh!t what are you going to do? Move to Africa? :rolleyes:

[schmenke]

I missed last night's headline news.
Anyone have the results of the Emmy awards? :mark:

[Rudy Tamasz]

In light of this I somehow feel no guilt underpaying taxes.

[GridGirl]

I was down in London visiting a client on last Monday morning and exited Canary Wharf tube station to pandemonium. I've never seen so many tv crews and paparazzi in my life and that includes at sporting events such as F1. I carried on following my directions along Bank Street when I realised that all of the papazzi were looking in my general direction. As I was wearing a skirt I checked the obvious to see if it stuck in my knickers and it wasn't. :p Thank God I thought so I then looked in through the doors of the building I was standing infront of and realised it was Lehman Brothers. Doh! As an Audit Manager I had a little chuckle to myself that it had gone bust and carried on. It was definately one of the craziest things I've ever seen and I really don't see all this credit crunch jazz ending soon.

[veeten]

Don't be so conservative. You should spend billions. The governments have so much money, they won't mind. This is capitalism at its finest.
Not capitalism, but the lingering after-effects of Keynesian economics. Legislative and executive decisions made in Washington, and then duplicated in state governments, have put undue stress on taxpayers and savers (be they member accounts of banks, S & Ls (yes, there are a few left still operating) or credit unions) to 'pony up' cash to pay for bad decisions and actions of those in the banking & investment world (Wall Street) whom were to be deemed trustworthy.

We should not be paying for this but there are way too many people that had their investment funds tied to all this, mainly those that are just pensioners or workers just contributing to their retirement accounts during payroll, that cannot be just thrown to the wolves to make up for it. The lynch-pin to all this is the Subprime Housing Lending/Mortgage fiasco, and the subsequent mess it created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_subprime_mortgage_financial_crisis

All of this comes on the slightly-cooled heels of the Savings & Loan debacle of the late 80's- early 90's, which it seems that our govwenment officials have not learned the lessons from. Just as McCain was one of those that took campaing contributions in exchange for favors to 'help' Lincoln Savings & Loan president Charles Keating in the 80's, Obama has been involved in the same kind of shenanigans with Fannie Mae. It's hard to trust candidates for higher official office when they are involved in such things that amount to influence peddling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_Loan_crisis#Financial_Institutions_Ref orm.2C_Recovery.2C_and_Enforcement_Act_of_1989

[donKey jote]

Here's a populist donkey solution for the state intervention:

give the 800 million billion wotsits to the people in debt, and let them give it back to the credit institutions while telling them to shove right up there with their credit ratings :p :

OMG but that would be like red pinko communism like, I'm not paying taxes for my hard earned bucks to go to the subprime subhumans :eek:
I'd rather my tax money goes straight into the golden handshake funds. That'll teach them ! :rolleyes:

good job I'm not an economist... the thought of the subprimes bailing out the likes of Lehmann & co. simply strikes a moral chord in me :D
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Jag_Warrior]

So, if the government doesn't bail the finances out of the sh!t what are you going to do? Move to Africa? :rolleyes:

I don't have as much of a problem with the government using this socialist approach to bail out these financial institutions, as I do with the executives of one of the firms being allowed to share in a $2.5 billion bonus fund (bonuses for what?!). I also have a problem with a condition (quietly) inserted in this backdoor legislation that these crooks and incompetents cannot be prosecuted for crimes related to this financial catastrosphe.

The house is on fire. Put it out. But don't buy new BMW's for the people who started the fire!

[veeten]

I also have a problem with a condition (quietly) inserted in this backdoor legislation that these crooks and incompetents cannot be prosecuted for crimes related to this financial catastrosphe.

then again, that's in the legislation because if these guys are brought up on charges, they would be free to bring forth damning evidence of involvement by legislators in what precipitated this whole mess. The worse part, for congressional members at least, is that several would have no place to hide their activities, would have to face the constituents in their home states, and would face from disbarrment from Congress to actual jail time.

'Conflict of Interest' would be the repeated meme in this whole debacle.

[Jag_Warrior]

Well, it's been nearly a week since this thread was first posted... and still no deal!

Already mortgages are not being funded, even for those with excellent credit. Already business and personal lines of credit are being canceled or reduced. Already one of the largest banks in the U.S. has failed (WaMu) after depositors withdrew $16.7 billion in the last week, and the sixth largest bank is teetering on the brink of failure (Wachovia). And the "poor unfortunate soul" who took over as WaMu's CEO less than three weeks ago... he stands to make between $12 million and $20 million for his 17 days of "dedicated service".

But Congress and the President... they might get around to buying some bandaids to patch up the sucking chest wound that they helped to inflict. Maybe! :angryfire

[harvick#1]

George Bush finally finalized his campain as the absolute "worst and more disgraceful" president ever in history. who actually voted for this idiot. I know I never did.

the one problem I have is this, where is this money gonna come from, from me??? so I can help bail out these CEO's who make millions a year while I get 40K a year at best. :rolleyes: why not let the banks fall, its life, another problem is the housing market, its not my fault these contracts have to makr 500K-1M dollar homes that no one can afford. this country went to the toilet so quick and I feel bad for McCain or Obama who have to take over teh biggest dip ever to be president

pathetic

[Jag_Warrior]

George Bush finally finalized his campain as the absolute "worst and more disgraceful" president ever in history. who actually voted for this idiot. I know I never did.

the one problem I have is this, where is this money gonna come from, from me??? so I can help bail out these CEO's who make millions a year while I get 40K a year at best. :rolleyes: why not let the banks fall, its life, another problem is the housing market, its not my fault these contracts have to makr 500K-1M dollar homes that no one can afford. this country went to the toilet so quick and I feel bad for McCain or Obama who have to take over teh biggest dip ever to be president

pathetic

Yep, they expect ALL of us to pay for this mess. Anytime the taxpayers are on the hook, in the end, it'll come out of ALL of our pockets. Not wanting to offend any fans of Sarah Palin, but you can't put lipstick on this pig of a bailout plan and pretend that it's not socialism. It is. It's classic government mandated redistributon of wealth, pure & simple.

But with all of that said, might we have to swallow some (greater) amount of socialism in order to protect and preserve what's left of our banking system? It appears so. Washington Mutual went under, but luckily a quick deal for the assets was reached between the FDIC and JP Morgan Chase. But let's say that Wachovia can't find a partner or a buyer before it too goes under. If the FDIC has to shoulder that burden on top of all of the others, depositors will be protected up to the $100,000 limit. But they won't necessarily get access to their money the next day. It might take a month, six months or a year. It'll depend on the overall situation. Average people might have problems paying their mortagages and other obligations if they can't get timely access to their money in Wachovia accounts. The debt and equity markets will sink even lower than they have already - and that will also create problems for average people. Unless we're completely "off the grid", all of us are affected by, or have ties to the debt and/or equity markets.

It's the domino effect that we have to be concerned about. It's a sh## sandwich. But after taking our obligatory bite, maybe the American people will exercise some needed payback on the low-life politicians who allowed this situation to develop.

To use a favorite neocon phrase from a few years ago: "You're either with us or against us."

If the American people have the balls and brains to voice that to Washington, the bribe takers in Washington can then decide who they stand with.

[Tazio]

Why the USA needs a military budget of nearly 8 times that of China and about the same as the rest of the world combined is totally beyond me. $515bn is a base and recurrring amount and probably is somewhere in the order of about 3-4% of GDP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Dj3d_bdNM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8szhQfJoL-s&NR=1

[Jag_Warrior]

Attention! Attention! All of you from other lands: please send America some of this. We need it.

http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/images/productimages/large/ky_jelly__42g_-_3_for_2_3518.jpg

[rah]

Attention! Attention! All of you from other lands: please send America some of this. We need it.

http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/images/productimages/large/ky_jelly__42g_-_3_for_2_3518.jpg

Lol, now just see if you can touch your toes....