Liberal Arts

[Rudy Tamasz]

Stuff like History, Sociology, Philosophy, History, International Relations, are they any good? Are they of any use to the society?

Some people on the other threads maintained a strictly utilitarian approach to the education. They favored "hard" sciences and polytechnic stuff. I think liberal arts are just as important, just in a different way. What about you?

[LeonBrooke]

Absolutely they are important, I love history, and I'd love to be doing a few history papers at uni if my timetable wasn't completely full with nursing...

[Ian McC]

History must be important Rudy, you mentioned it twice! :D

As someone once said, "you get an ology you're a scientist!" ;)

Is 'liberal arts' the correct term for those?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I'd say History is important

but Sociology, Philosophy, Psychology aren't worthy subjects unless you really want career in that field.

Traditional Hard important subjects

Maths
Physics
Chemistry
Geography
History
Biology
Engineering
English Language

Career subjects (liberal arts)

Accounting
Economics
Sociology,
English Literature,
Foreign Language (French, German etc...)
Philosophy,
Psychology,
Business Studies,
Environmental Science,
Design Technology
Graphic Design
Politics

'Doss' subjects

Media Studies
Film Studies
Sport
Music
Art

[Alexamateo]

I am going to go out on a limb and say they are even more important now. In our modern world, rapidly advancing technology makes what we learn today obsolete in only a few short years. What that means is that we must be prepared for a lifetime of continual learning, not just the 16 years or so we are in school. I believe it's as important to establish a framework or platform and know "how" to learn, and the liberal arts provide that framework. Oh, you'll still be studying the technical sides as they relate to your chosen fields, but it may or may not be in a traditional school setting.

[BeansBeansBeans]

'Doss' subjects

Music


How so?

Professional session musicians earn fortunes, and you need a degree in music to pursue this career.

[BDunnell]

Of course these subjects are important, regardless of whether they offer a direct path to a career.

[slinkster]

'Doss' subjects

Media Studies
Film Studies
Sport
Music
Art

Both media studies and film studies could lead to careers in Journalism. And Art would encompass Graphic Design and illustration careers.

of course these subjects are important. I don't get sociology as a subject myself... but all the others I see benefits to soceity. Physchology is just as worthy as other areas of medical interest.

People are.. well people and we all have different things to offer the world if we care enough to do so... I've achieved high grades throughout my education but I wouldn't class myself as an academic, I choose arts over more academic subjects because it fits into my persona, my interests and has influenced what I do for my career.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Both media studies and film studies could lead to careers in Journalism.

I'd say English was more important, if you wanted to be a jounalist. I don't see how you can be educated to have an opinion on films :confused:

[slinkster]

That's not what it's about... it's about mise en ecene, cinematography... if you've ever read a decent review of a film they probably take these things in to account. If you just read nuts who give films a a score out of ten or whatever, that's probably why you don't get it. And yes of course English is important, hence why alot of these courses are offered as sandwich courses to be coupled with things like English. Just because I didn't do an English degree doesn't mean I can't communicate as well as someone who did.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

T Just because I didn't do an English degree doesn't mean I can't communicate as well as someone who did.

Just because I didn't do film studies doesn't mean I can't appreciate films as much as someone who did. :p

[Storm]

I would have loved to study the 'arts' that you mentioned Rudy...
Sadly I had to go and do engineering (electronics!) and then I have to work doing silly bits of software programming and such. Although my favourite subject was physics and science does interest me a lot, I think I would have equally appreciated learning more history, geography, languages and music.
(of which I did or was not able to do any after high school..)

[Drew]

I studied Sociology and to me it just seems to be a vicious circle. People are enticed to learn it, then go on to Uni to study it just to become teachers and complete the circle...

[BDunnell]

Both media studies and film studies could lead to careers in Journalism.

There are other, and I would say far more important, aspects of being a journalist than studying it as part of a media studies degree.

[Hazell B]

I never knew what 'liberal arts' really meant :mark:

Some are good (I'm going from the lists on here when I say that) and some pointless. Most students doing the liberal arts will end up in unrelated jobs, so what's the point for them I have no idea, but I can see some being incredibly handy.

For the record, I don't know one single journalists who has any respect for degrees in the subject. I'll admit the ones I know are older, certainly 35+, but they've all said young degree holders are pointless in the job. Good skills for writing and a nosey nature are all that count in the job! The degree holding moron who recently wrote about my partner made such a total hash of grammar, spelling (we told her how the spell his name three times and even put it in writing!) and facts the entire piece was wrong on every level. I should have written it myself :rolleyes:

I'd also like to know exactly how many prefessional musicians have a degree in music - in fact I'll wager it's under 20%. Put it this way, I bet there's more music degree holders (and drop outs) in MacDonalds and Tesco than music :p :

[LotusElise]

I think a good proportion of professional classical musicians have music degrees, as do a fair few music teachers.

Most journalists did not study journalism as a first degree, although most now have postgrad/professional qualifications as recommended by the NCTJ. I've always been told that journalists normally have a good degree in a rigorous subject rather than Media Studies or something similar.
On top of that, to actually get a job you should have the writing skills and nosy nature mentioned above. (I did try and become a journo but it didn't happen for various reasons.)

[Hazell B]

.... journalists normally have a good degree in a rigorous subject rather than Media Studies ....

That's my experince. I've often heard mutterings like "... wish I'd stuck at the <insert engineering, teaching, milk round, etc> when I've been sitting at some sporting event wondering what to write. :p :

They'd have been better with psycology degrees - talk themselves out of the stress then!

[Rudy Tamasz]

History must be important Rudy, you mentioned it twice! :D



That's a Freudian slip. :D I'm a historian in addition to other occupations. ;)

Some say here a degree is usseless for journalism, certified journalists can't write. It may be so, I'm not a journo. But I do a lot of writing at my job and it was my MA program that taught me to write. Now I can write anything from a paper article to a memo and that's how I earn my living.

[Hawkmoon]

Personally I think "Arts" degrees are the biggest waste of time a person can undertake at University. That's not really surprising as I have a degree in Info and Comm Tech, which is about as far away from "Arts" as you can get.

However, I think history is very important. We learn from our mistakes and history is nothing if not a long list of bloody big mistakes. It's things like psychology that I have difficulty in finding any value in. I don't mean to offend any psychologists out there, I have an aunt who lectures the stuff, but I just don't get it.

[jim mcglinchey]

[quote=

I think history is very important. We learn from our mistakes and history is nothing if not a long list of bloody big mistakes

A wiser man than me once said that if we dont study history then we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes.......and if we do study it then we'll find new ways to balls up!

[Mark in Oshawa]

History is always ignored, and shouldn't be really, but it should be taught more in concert with Poltical science, which also an "art" in many universities....Geography is the most useful of "libreal arts" and its degree has been devalued greatly IMO, but hey, I have a BA in Geography and haven't really used it directly to get a job in ages.

Geography teaches under its large umbrella climatology (global warming anyone?), mapping and cartographic sciences, urban planning, cultural and industrial geography, logisitcal science, and physical geography. All that stuff is VERY pertinent to today's world, but you basically have to live at school for about 6 years to get enough of one thing to make yourself employable. Even then, maybe not...

Most Libreal arts are useful to a degree, and out of them all, only Psych and socialogy seem to be taken as a lark. Psych has its uses, socialogy seems to be talking about nothing....

I think we over analyze a lot in this world, and gut feelings and instincts are often ignored. It is like the example of the Journalists who have BA's in Comm Studies or English and are dumb as bricks. They don't have that instinct for news, nor can they communicated it effectively. I suspect half the posters on this board show more instincts for journalism than some reporters do!!!

[agwiii]

History is always ignored, and shouldn't be really, but it should be taught more in concert with Poltical science, which also an "art" in many universities....Geography is the most useful of "libreal arts" and its degree has been devalued greatly IMO, but hey, I have a BA in Geography and haven't really used it directly to get a job in ages.

Geography teaches under its large umbrella climatology (global warming anyone?), mapping and cartographic sciences, urban planning, cultural and industrial geography, logisitcal science, and physical geography. All that stuff is VERY pertinent to today's world, but you basically have to live at school for about 6 years to get enough of one thing to make yourself employable. Even then, maybe not...

Most Libreal arts are useful to a degree, and out of them all, only Psych and socialogy seem to be taken as a lark. Psych has its uses, socialogy seems to be talking about nothing....

I think we over analyze a lot in this world, and gut feelings and instincts are often ignored. It is like the example of the Journalists who have BA's in Comm Studies or English and are dumb as bricks. They don't have that instinct for news, nor can they communicated it effectively. I suspect half the posters on this board show more instincts for journalism than some reporters do!!!

We often see the creation of Colleges of Arts and Sciences within the University. It clusters together many disparate fields under one administrative (Dean) umbrella. I still like Aristotle's statement that Politics is the Mother of all Sciences.

[agwiii]

That's my experince. I've often heard mutterings like "... wish I'd stuck at the <insert engineering, teaching, milk round, etc> when I've been sitting at some sporting event wondering what to write. :p :

They'd have been better with psycology degrees - talk themselves out of the stress then!

Hazell B - I suspect that is because many people do not give serious attention to planning their careers, and are like willows in the wind. Instead of steering their course, they allow the wind to take them where it wishes. It's a tough one. I know a few people that somehow knew they would become a physician or a pastor, but they are the exception.

[LotusElise]

I studied (an am returning to study) Archaeology, which is usually classed as an Arts subject but can involve a lot of hard science - chemistry and physics for using and understanding the dating methods, biology, zoology or anatomy for interpreting human and animal remains, physics for understanding GIS (something I can't do!).

The arts side isn't a walk in the park either as you have to learn lots of different information about different periods and places and how they relate to one another. Sometimes there is more than one interpretation and you have to know all of them to argue your case convincingly. Sometimes you need history and ancient languages as well!
It is a very rewarding thing to study and academically rigorous. However, if you want to progress professionally, you need postgrad qualifications as the competition is so strong.

[Erki]

It's things like psychology that I have difficulty in finding any value in. I don't mean to offend any psychologists out there, I have an aunt who lectures the stuff, but I just don't get it.

Of course psychology is worthless in today's depressive and stressful world. :)
And getting to know how human thinking works is not a little thing and can be useful too.

[Hazell B]

Hazell B - I suspect that is because many people do not give serious attention to planning their careers, and are like willows in the wind.


That's certainly true of my generation and the ones before. Not so much now. These days they train like mad for a specific career then leave uni and get a job in a department store/call centre/bar for about ten years, then suddenly realise they wasted all that time in higher education :p :

Lotus, get yourself to York! They're crying out for people to dig up the corpses there. :)

[LotusElise]

I might be moving to York to study later in the year!

[Hazell B]

They recon that in York if you dig a hole anywhere at all within the City walls you'll find stuff.

In that case, why did a woman from Dover's museum have to lend them some atrefacts for the Yorvic Centre? :mark:

Anyway, if you do get to the area Lotus, you'll love it. Or dig it. Whatever :p :

[DocF225]

I'm a Chemist by training but I use Psych and Sociology every day in my job. I studied some philosophy as well which is useful in preparing arguments.

The Arts studies may not lead to High Paying Jobs or "useful" careers but often times it's those endeavors that make you a more rounded person and aid your ability to "thinK" tangentially.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think Psych should be more applied and less theoretical. I think it is a useful subject if there was a way of teaching it to give people some thoughts and ideas on how to handle stress, stupid people, irrational behaviour and general goofiness. Instead, you get lots of theoretical crap and how Freud may be not as smart as people thought he was, but it gives everyone an excuse to relate everything back to sex.

I think Psych is one of the most "mis-taught" arts....

As for my subject of study, It would have been useful if I didn't make the error of being a)too general and b) too big a hurry to see the "real" world. My degree is now not really useful in some ways, for I am now a over the road truck driver, but at least, my education did give me the value of work, the value of communication and the ability to think, which I think is more valued, even in my humble "blue-collar" job than some people realize. The number of times I have had to apply logic and psychology in my job would shatter some people, but most of it I learned through subjects other than Psychology. I would wager Political Science is a more applied art, and far more useful in ways you cannot understand, and I give it most of the credit as one of my minors to teach me to think and use persuasion.