Heartbreak for Bourdais

[mervyn charter]

In today`s pre race show on ITV it was revealed how emotional Bourdais was after he lost a podium on the last lap at Spa.

I could only imagine how he felt after his misfortune at the start of today`s race. Today he could really have showed why he is a four times Cart Champion. A podium was there for the taking.

Sebastian really seems to be under pressure from his bosses. This could have lead to his problems at the start.

I think Toro Rosso should sign him for next season as he has done a solid job in his rookie season, and will certainly improve from this year`s experience.

I am not overly impressed by any of the people like Buemi/ Senna /Sato who are talked about as potential Toro Rosso Drivers.

Only Luca Di Grassis and Maldando really impress me from GP2.

[Shifter]

Because he raced in Champcar, American fans have a stake in seeing him in F1. He's a bit of an adopted countrymen, and the only current driver with any real ties to the U.S.A.

So, I think he deserves another year!!!

[markabilly]

Unfortunately talent does not have a lot to do with it. It appears that Red Bull has made it clear they want "market penetration" in Japan, so if red bull ad writers get their way, Sato is in and SB is out. Alas!!!!

[PSfan]

Was it just me, or was Bourdais shafted a bit by the race starting behind the safety car?

Under normal circumstances, Bourdais would have been stalled just prior to the parade lap, been dragged into the pits and essentially would have been starting from pit lane, except by starting the race under a safety car it looked like there wasn't a parade lap, meaning Bourdais lost a lap that he wouldn't have if the race had a normal start...

[aryan]

Absolutely gutted for him.

Yes, Torro Rosso need to sign him up for next year. He has race craft, he is fast. He needs to stay. He is the only Frenchman in the sport, as well as having strong ties to the U.S. It's good for the sport. good for him, and good for Torro Rosso.

[markabilly]

Absolutely gutted for him.

Yes, Torro Rosso need to sign him up for next year. He has race craft, he is fast. He needs to stay. He is the only Frenchman in the sport, as well as having strong ties to the U.S. It's good for the sport. good for him, and good for Torro Rosso.


Then u better explain to Red bull about how the markets there will be adversely affected and therefore signing Sato to penetrate Japan, will not offset those losses

otherwise........

[veeten]

unfortunately, I have to agree with markabilly on this. Remember, it's Red Bull, the same folks that used a similar deal to get an american driver into F1, not to increase viewership of the sport but to increase market in the US for their drinks.

Instead they chose to put their sponsor dollars into a NASCAR program, and even moved said driver into a Stock Car.

Do you honestly believe they won't do the same if the possibility to achieve a larger asian market penetration requires an asian driver?

[aryan]

Then u better explain to Red bull about how the markets there will be adversely affected and therefore signing Sato to penetrate Japan, will not offset those losses

otherwise........

Easy.

Population of France: 60 million.
Population of France that will not follow F1 with no Frenchman: 300,000

Population of US: 300 million
Population of US that follow F1 due to Bourdais: 250,000

Population of Japan: 125 million
Population of Japan that will only watch F1 if Sato is there: 6

550,000 > 6. Case made :p

Where did I get the stats from? Keep it a secret: the Rhodesian Bureau of Statistics :D

On second thoughts though, isn't Red Bull, the drink, illegal in France? In which case, it would explain why the added French viewers are not important to Red Bull.

[ShiftingGears]

In today`s pre race show on ITV it was revealed how emotional Bourdais was after he lost a podium on the last lap at Spa.

I could only imagine how he felt after his misfortune at the start of today`s race. Today he could really have showed why he is a four times Cart Champion. A podium was there for the taking.

Sebastian really seems to be under pressure from his bosses. This could have lead to his problems at the start.

I think Toro Rosso should sign him for next season as he has done a solid job in his rookie season, and will certainly improve from this year`s experience.

I am not overly impressed by any of the people like Buemi/ Senna /Sato who are talked about as potential Toro Rosso Drivers.

Only Luca Di Grassis and Maldando really impress me from GP2.

Bourdais needs to sort out his nervousness.

[Daniel]

Bourdais needs to sort out his nervousness.
I don't think Bourdais was nervous. I think he was sad. You've got a guy who is capable of good results once he gets used to the tracks, the team and the car and yet his bosses are talking about getting rid of him. What they should be doing is getting behind him and giving him another year and they'll really see what the guy can do. The guy is an amazing talent. Come on ..... people in the US have got behind a Frenchman and are supporting him! I think that means something :up:

[ShiftingGears]

I don't think Bourdais was nervous. I think he was sad. You've got a guy who is capable of good results once he gets used to the tracks, the team and the car and yet his bosses are talking about getting rid of him. What they should be doing is getting behind him and giving him another year and they'll really see what the guy can do. The guy is an amazing talent. Come on ..... people in the US have got behind a Frenchman and are supporting him! I think that means something :up:

Oh I certainly agree - he's got potential...but making an error like that at such a critical time is not something you'd want to see any driver doing.

[Daniel]

Oh I certainly agree - he's got potential...but making an error like that at such a critical time is not something you'd want to see any driver doing.
It's happened to most drivers thoug.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Oh I certainly agree - he's got potential...but making an error like that at such a critical time is not something you'd want to see any driver doing.

the fact that it took so long to fix it shows that it wasn't only Seb's fault. Must have been something with the gearbox.

[ShiftingGears]

the fact that it took so long to fix it shows that it wasn't only Seb's fault. Must have been something with the gearbox.

Well, I was wrong. That, coupled with Sebs comments point to a component failure. Which is rotten for Seb.

[52Paddy]

Really harsh luck for Bourdais. Given the pace that Vettel was on, I'd say Bourdais could have definitely made a high points finish yesterday if not a podium.

[PolePosition_1]

Was it just me, or was Bourdais shafted a bit by the race starting behind the safety car?

Under normal circumstances, Bourdais would have been stalled just prior to the parade lap, been dragged into the pits and essentially would have been starting from pit lane, except by starting the race under a safety car it looked like there wasn't a parade lap, meaning Bourdais lost a lap that he wouldn't have if the race had a normal start...

Yeah, I must be honest I'm confused. In the GP2 feature race, where they started under the safety car, they had a warm up lap and the first race lap under the safety car.

I know GP2 isn't an FIA Championship, but its monitored by the same Stewards - so you'd presume its subject to the same rules.

Has anyone got any clarification on this? I've searched the GP2 website with no luck on finding the regulations.

[Daniel]

Yeah, I must be honest I'm confused. In the GP2 feature race, where they started under the safety car, they had a warm up lap and the first race lap under the safety car.

I know GP2 isn't an FIA Championship, but its monitored by the same Stewards - so you'd presume its subject to the same rules.

Has anyone got any clarification on this? I've searched the GP2 website with no luck on finding the regulations.
Stewards don't decide the rules. They only enforce and interpret them :)

[PolePosition_1]

Stewards don't decide the rules. They only enforce and interpret them :)


Lol, I understand that. But you'd have to say its a fair assumption that they'd subjected by the same rules.

Can anyone source this up?

[ArrowsFA1]

Cruel, cruel luck for Bourdais. Watching the two Toro Rosso's on the grid before the start I was thinking how great this was for F1, and while Vettel went on and did the almost unthinkable, SB was left stranded on the grid :(

He created a great opportunity to help secure his seat for '09 by qualifying so well, particularly in light of his struggles this season, and a podium would surely have been on the cards for him, which would have made Toro Rosso's day complete.

Still, I hope he is given the opportunity to continue with the team next year.

[PolePosition_1]

Yeah, plus the most disheartening thing of all is that he had good pace. I watch the races with the live timing up, and he was quickest guy on the track at many instances during the race. A definate podium wa son the cards, you could argue even 2nd, but 3rd was for sure given his pace.

[52Paddy]

I know GP2 isn't an FIA Championship

Wow, thats news to me. I always thought it was. :eek:

[ykiki]

Since Vettel is moving on to Red Bull for 2009, why can't STR keep Bourdais to drive along side Sato?

Red Bull is illegal in France, so from a marketing point of view having Sato in is a no-brainer.

That said, putting Sato in the car and kicking out Bourdais on driving talent grounds is the kind of decision that suggests no brains anyway.

[gm99]

Red Bull is illegal in France, so from a marketing point of view having Sato in is a no-brainer.


Red Bull has actually been introduced in France earlier this year after having been banned for years: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/08/technology/ad09.php

Indeed, this may have played a role why Bourdais was hired by Red Bull/Torro Rosso for the 2008 season in the first place (just as RB started sponsoring Bourdais' namesike Sébastien Loeb and his Citroën WRC team at the same time). Red Bull is and always will be about marketing first.

Red Bull has actually been introduced in France earlier this year after having been banned for years: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/08/technology/ad09.php

Indeed, this may have played a role why Bourdais was hired by Red Bull/Torro Rosso for the 2008 season in the first place (just as RB started sponsoring Bourdais' namesike Sébastien Loeb and his Citroën WRC team at the same time). Red Bull is and always will be about marketing first.

My apologies. I knew it was banned up until last year, but haven't been to France yet this year.

[Chamoo]

I was under the assumption that Bourdais was picked by Gerhard Berger, not Red Bull.

Also, I couldn't wait to watch the race. Bourdais had a real oppertunity to make it a 1-2 STR finish, which would be rediculous, but amazing to see.

I loved to hate him when he was in CC, but now that he is in F1, I feel for the guy and wish to see him do well, if only to represent AOWR better.

[aryan]

My apologies. I knew it was banned up until last year, but haven't been to France yet this year.

Yes, I believe it has only been legal since June this year though.

The French changed their law and now the amount of taurine in a can of Red Bull is legal.

Prior to this, Red Bull had plans to enter the French market using an alternative formula which lacked taurine, so they would have entered the French market in 2008 anyway.

I believe this was a major contributing factor to them hiring Bourdais.

[Speedworx]

Since Vettel is moving on to Red Bull for 2009, why can't STR keep Bourdais to drive along side Sato?

Because Bourdais is s.h.i.t

Buemi/Senna/Davidson are all WAY more talented.

[Ranger]

Because Bourdais is s.h.i.t

Buemi/Senna/Davidson are all WAY more talented.

Being beaten by Vettel means you are sh!t, yes? Based on that guy's performances this year that would be no great disgrace.

But lets get this straight. Senna was beaten by 2 team-mates in British F3 in 2006 and was wildly erratic in GP2 this year, which he probably should have won. Davidson hardly did remarkable things alongside Sato (of all people) last year, and makes a habit of making enemies. IMO the only guy of that list who might be better is Buemi.

[ShiftingGears]

Red Bull has actually been introduced in France earlier this year after having been banned for years: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/08/technology/ad09.php

Indeed, this may have played a role why Bourdais was hired by Red Bull/Torro Rosso for the 2008 season in the first place (just as RB started sponsoring Bourdais' namesike Sébastien Loeb and his Citroën WRC team at the same time). Red Bull is and always will be about marketing first.

Well, I'dve banned it on taste grounds. Dreadful stuff.

[markabilly]

Yes, I believe it has only been legal since June this year though.

The French changed their law and now the amount of taurine in a can of Red Bull is legal.

Prior to this, Red Bull had plans to enter the French market using an alternative formula which lacked taurine, so they would have entered the French market in 2008 anyway.

I believe this was a major contributing factor to them hiring Bourdais.


Okay the formula is very simple----how many people will pay how much money for Red Cow piss in france if they keep SB?

How many people will pay how much for red cow piss in Japan if they hire Sato?

How many people will pay how much for red cow piss in Spain if they hire Feranado??

My money says best bet is to go Sato and FA as teammates for red cow next year, and those whimpy Franks can go drink wine....

Besides, Red cow tastes so bad that only the germans, japanese and spanish are sufficiently without brains and taste buds to want to drink the stuff because some driver of their nationality is driving what looks like a can of the stuff with some wheels attached........

Just why do u think scottie not speed lost his F1 drive? Because he weren't that fast? Hahaha, he weren't that fast when they hired him.
They thought that USA would drink a giant cow of the stuff cause Scottie was a driving......then they did a little marketing poll in the usa and found out that if he weren't racing in nastycar, he weren't a racing driver, so scottie got promooed to the big leagues before he had a chance to knock the snot out of burger...so now he drives trucks and has his own girl to paint his toenails any color he likes...

..... :beer: take a good look, no that ain't no red cow he is drinking..you can tell cause he drinks it right down and smiles

[call_me_andrew]

Since Vettel is moving on to Red Bull for 2009, why can't STR keep Bourdais to drive along side Sato?

I agree. There's room for everyone. Bourdais has shown some improvement over the last few races as he's become more accustomed to the new car. And as Malllen pointed out, there's no shame in being beaten by Vettle. Barrichello isn't a bad driver because he lost so many races to Michael Schumacher.

[ioan]

Being beaten by Vettel means you are sh!t, yes? Based on that guy's performances this year that would be no great disgrace.

But lets get this straight. Senna was beaten by 2 team-mates in British F3 in 2006 and was wildly erratic in GP2 this year, which he probably should have won. Davidson hardly did remarkable things alongside Sato (of all people) last year, and makes a habit of making enemies. IMO the only guy of that list who might be better is Buemi.

:up:

[markabilly]

Tost told Le Matin: "After what we noted this week, and in so far as we manage to find an experienced driver to race alongside him, I think we can take the risk of having Sebastien at Toro Rosso in 2009. You can consider than as an official declaration."

I think he meant Sebastien Buemi, not Bourdass......It don't sound good when you do have so lengthy experience and a season under your belt, and then your bossman says this.....I always felt that both Speed and VL had much potential, but while Speed is off getting his toenails done, as to VL I know not what came of him.

Actually given the new team manager eineer or whatever, formerly of ferrari (Giorgio Ascanelli) and now add in more presence from Newey, and esp., the ferrari engines, I am not so sure one should be looking down their noses at this team, and just maybe Vettel might just want to say, I think i will rather be here, then stuck with renault "can't figure out how to upgrade my engines" engines.

now if berger and tostie stay out of the way.......this team may actually start performing better than ferrari.....esp if they keep sv

Not sure at all about the marketing aspect, a swiss?? Not much of a market compared to other countries....but sato still remains as the "experienced" penetrator of markets for Japan...
http://www.autosport.com/images/space.gif

[spike]

The edition of the L'equipe of the 21/09/08

Babelfish translation from the French text:

"I had the explanation, this week. In fact, the team had chosen an cartography-engine different at the beginning, I did not know it and, under these conditions, the system of anticalage does not function in the same fork. I increased power as usual except that the system did not answer immediately, tells the pilot, too disappointed, Sunday evening, to share with his team the festival celebrating his first victory out of F 1, thanks to Sebastian Vettel. The stable had not prevented me EC engineering change but, on another side, it is of my fault: I did not know that the system functioned thus."

It was a sabotage ?

[weeflyonthewall]

Since Vettel is moving on to Red Bull for 2009, why can't STR keep Bourdais to drive along side Sato?

Hopefully SV will stay with Toro Rosso. Sato can take the Honda engine deal to Red Bull and team with Webber.

[Knock-on]

Wow, thats news to me. I always thought it was. :eek:


It's not an official FIA championship in the way F1 or WRC is but is subject to FIA regulations.

[Tallgeese]

Should be given a chance for next year. After-all, last race was not his fault, & besides, he is improving & adapting to the STR3, just needs another good race to prove it!

[Dave B]

His torment continues in Singapore. The poor sod can't get a break at the moment while his team-mate's confidence is sky-high after his win. Bordais' confidence must be through the floor at the moment.

[Knock-on]

I agree Dave. I think he has blown his chance for next year.

[ArrowsFA1]

I think Toro Rosso would be making a mistake if they dump Bourdais. He's a talented, experienced driver and unless Alonso takes a risk I can't see anyone else out there who would do a better job.

[jens]

While Bourdais has been at times seriously competitive (especially AUS & BEL), then generally he seems quite inconsistent. Hard to say, who would do a better job than him, especially as he has driven only one season against a relatively unproven driver.

[Tallgeese]

He has three races to go. If we consider his misfortune at Monza, & filter out the false start he would have probably finished 5th or 6th & bagged the points but unfortunately the car has been less mechanically faithful to him (even at Singapore) than it has to Vettel.