OK, hand's up those who weren't expecting this

[ioan]

I'm not surprised at all.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70626


"I felt I drove a really good race and was moving through the field very quickly when the circuit was at its wettest," said Hamilton.

"If it had kept on raining, I feel pretty confident I probably could have even won from 15th grid position; but, as the circuit dried out, my tyres overcooked and I had to defend my position from Mark Webber.

[yodasarmpit]

Can you explain what you are reading into that statement, because other than him stating he could win (I think second was possible) then I don't see a problem.

Please do offer your opinion rather than a nondescript statement, where we have to guess what you mean.

[ioan]

I'm just making fun of it.

Every time he didn't win a race, even when he didn't finish because he had an accident, he comes and tells us how he could have won it, IF!

I find it funny, and I'm happy he does it, cause it's a sign that he isn't confident about himself and needs to up himself publicly to feel better.

And having Ron Come and echo his words every time to give a bit more support to the poor little aggressive mouse, it's funny too!

[F1boat]

He is like this. I no longer read his statements.

[BDunnell]

I must agree that he's become a rather graceless interviewee, but he's hardly alone in this within sport.

[Daniel]

I must agree that he's become a rather graceless interviewee, but he's hardly alone in this within sport.
Agreed. I do think this is down to him going through childhood being groomed for this rather than some of the other drivers who had a slightly more "normal" life before being a racing driver.

[BDunnell]

Agreed. I do think this is down to him going through childhood being groomed for this rather than some of the other drivers who had a slightly more "normal" life before being a racing driver.

I think that's exactly it. One can hardly blame him for it — or indeed anyone, because it's not really something to which blame can be applied.

[Big Ben]

now who knows what would have happened? maybe he's right. If, if, if... after an if I'm capable of having done a lot of things too. He would have won the wdc last year hadn't he been so stupid... never heard this one... if lewis hamilton had been a test driver last year mclaren would have won a title. How does he like this if?

"With the third conditional we talk about the past. We talk about a condition in the past that did not happen. That is why there is no possibility for this condition. The third conditional is also like a dream, but with no possibility of the dream coming true."

[BDunnell]

now who knows what would have happened? maybe he's right. If, if, if... after an if I'm capable of having done a lot of things too. He would have won the wdc last year hadn't he been so stupid... never heard this one... if lewis hamilton had been a test driver last year mclaren would have won a title. How does he like this if?

"With the third conditional we talk about the past. We talk about a condition in the past that did not happen. That is why there is no possibility for this condition. The third conditional is also like a dream, but with no possibility of the dream coming true."

I once read about a great piece of grammatical graffiti in South Africa around the time of the end of apartheid: 'The past is tense. The future? Perfect.'

[Daniel]

I think that's exactly it. One can hardly blame him for it — or indeed anyone, because it's not really something to which blame can be applied.

Yup. If someone wants to have that sort of life in the hope that they'll become WDC then good luck to them. I'd love to be driving in the WRC as a works driver but not if it required spending my whole childhood doing an apprenticeship...... Lewis will have squillions of pounds to do whatever he wants to do with himself in his later years but he will never have another childhood but at the end of the day his choice makes very little difference to me so whatever :)

I don't however like how the person that this life has manufactured comes across in interviews. Perhaps Ron should do something different with his next project and make him/her a little more personable :)

[Tonieke]

and i don't understand how someone can have an opinion about another person NOt knowing the person personaly...Maybe lewis is the nicest guy around..maybe not...is he arrogant because he say all the time he's great or he's the best ?..maybe..maybe not...I think each competitive sporter has this attitude..or should have...that's what makes the difference between a winner and a "hanger-on" to me....or like I said before every champion needs to be a bit of an "asshole"



and after all I like him for his racingskills....not for what he does besides the track..what he says or not says etc etc...

[BDunnell]

I don't however like how the person that this life has manufactured comes across in interviews.

There is a certain level of 'overconfidence' that comes across very badly, and, having previously given Hamilton the benefit of the doubt over those who constantly criticise him in this respect, today I saw what the critics mean in his post-race interview with ITV. Hopefully he will get better with age — Häkkinen did, Mansell didn't, though their starting points were different to Hamilton's.

[Big Ben]

or like I said before every champion needs to be a bit of an "asshole"

then Kubica and Vettel are doomed

[BDunnell]

and i don't understand how someone can have an opinion about another person NOt knowing the person personaly...

I would tend to agree with this, but you can get a fairly good idea in many cases.


like I said before every champion needs to be a bit of an "asshole"

Not sure I'd go along with that. While there are probably certain character traits that are common to successful sportspeople, I doubt you'd find many people who would describe Jim Clark as 'a bit of an asshole', for example.

[Tonieke]

Yup. If someone wants to have that sort of life in the hope that they'll become WDC then good luck to them. I'd love to be driving in the WRC as a works driver but not if it required spending my whole childhood doing an apprenticeship...... Lewis will have squillions of pounds to do whatever he wants to do with himself in his later years but he will never have another childhood but at the end of the day his choice makes very little difference to me so whatever :)

I don't however like how the person that this life has manufactured comes across in interviews. Perhaps Ron should do something different with his next project and make him/her a little more personable :)

daniel and what do you think about people when "there's people out there not sharing the same view on things like your own"...you just start ignoring them and call on others to do the same ? isn't that also a bit arrogant to do ?

[Tonieke]

then Kubica and Vettel are doomed well I read about Vettel he likes to pull jokes on teammembers and his friends..so when he does I bet the "victims" think of him that way ! ;-)

[Tonieke]

I would tend to agree with this, but you can get a fairly good idea in many cases.

dunno..in many cases they are "just" acting in front of the camera...But are totlay different behindthe scenes..






Not sure I'd go along with that. While there are probably certain character traits that are common to successful sportspeople, I doubt you'd find many people who would describe Jim Clark as 'a bit of an asshole', for example.

Ok..true..maybe I should have used more like " a lot of champions" and not all ;-)

[Daniel]

and i don't understand how someone can have an opinion about another person NOt knowing the person personaly...Maybe lewis is the nicest guy around..maybe not...is he arrogant because he say all the time he's great or he's the best ?..maybe..maybe not...I think each competitive sporter has this attitude..or should have...that's what makes the difference between a winner and a "hanger-on" to me....or like I said before every champion needs to be a bit of an "asshole"



and after all I like him for his racingskills....not for what he does besides the track..what he says or not says etc etc...
People are always going to have views about people. I can't speak about any F1 drivers but some rally drivers are miserable so and so's and some rally drivers are great to have a talk to.

I had a good little chat to Nicky Grist once about an incident that happened back in 2001 at Rally Australia and he was very frank, open and honest which is how he comes across when you used to see him being interviewed. Drivers are around cameras and microphones too often to have split personalities. By the same token the late great Richard Burns was as much of a miserable bugger as he came across on the TV.

If people were making sweeping judgements about Lewis like that he was a bad person or something then yeah I'd think that was pretty silly but we're not.

After what BDunnell said I just watched Hamilton's post race interview and you have to say that Lewis not knowing who had won the race was pretty bad and stating that he would have won the race if they'd had rain was pretty arrogant :mark:

[Daniel]

daniel and what do you think about people when "there's people out there not sharing the same view on things like your own"...you just start ignoring them and call on others to do the same ? isn't that also a bit arrogant to do ?

I said I'd ignore you but I'll bite.

Is it arrogant not to want to bang your head against a wall?

I also don't agree that a champion needs to be an asshole. Take Sebastien Loeb for example. You'll not find a more respectful and decent guy in motorsport other than by the looks of it Sebastien Vettel :) Chris Atkinson is also another motorsport nice guy. He's not a champion but I don't think his issues have anything to do with him being too nice :)

Anyway back to ignoring you :)

[Tonieke]

People are always going to have views about people. I can't speak about any F1 drivers but some rally drivers are miserable so and so's and some rally drivers are great to have a talk to.

I had a good little chat to Nicky Grist once about an incident that happened back in 2001 at Rally Australia and he was very frank, open and honest which is how he comes across when you used to see him being interviewed. Drivers are around cameras and microphones too often to have split personalities. By the same token the late great Richard Burns was as much of a miserable bugger as he came across on the TV.

If people were making sweeping judgements about Lewis like that he was a bad person or something then yeah I'd think that was pretty silly but we're not.

After what BDunnell said I just watched Hamilton's post race interview and you have to say that Lewis not knowing who had won the race was pretty bad and stating that he would have won the race if they'd had rain was pretty arrogant :mark:

well maybe you are not..but there are others out here that do say those kinda things about him...

he said "I feel pretty confident I probably could have even won from 15th grid position;" he never said he was sure he would have won...that's his personal view on things...sure some people might find it arrogant..but well..ya know...if we would be all the same ;-)

[Daniel]

well maybe you are not..but there are others out here that do say those kinda things about him...

he said "I feel pretty confident I probably could have even won from 15th grid position;" he never said he was sure he would have won...that's his personal view on things...sure some people might find it arrogant..but well..ya know...if we would be all the same ;-)

"If it had rained we woulda won" was exactly what Lewis said.

[Tonieke]

I said I'd ignore you but I'll bite.

Is it arrogant not to want to bang your head against a wall?

I also don't agree that a champion needs to be an asshole. Take Sebastien Loeb for example. You'll not find a more respectful and decent guy in motorsport other than by the looks of it Sebastien Vettel :) Chris Atkinson is also another motorsport nice guy. He's not a champion but I don't think his issues have anything to do with him being too nice :)



well ya I know..but we only get to know them how they are when they are doin there job..not how they are in there personal lifes ? Look at Max...would you ever had thought he was into those kinda things fe ? hehe ;-)

I am more into rallying myself btw ;-)



Anyway back to ignoring you :)
lol..hehe..shut uppppppp.. ;-)

[Tonieke]

"If it had rained we woulda won" was exactly what Lewis said.

well he was the fasted at that moment....But ok..maybe he should have said..i might have won ! ;-) But again..I like him for what he does on track and care less for what he does or says off-track....although I am pretty jealous of his girlfriend ! :-)))

[BDunnell]

I also don't agree that a champion needs to be an asshole.

I think it's a real shame that this view persists, both in sport and business. I remember a few years ago reading an interview with Andy Priaulx when he started in the BTCC with Honda. He said his biggest fault was being 'too nice and letting people walk all over me', or words to that effect. Struck me as being an unusual response for a sportsman.

Unfortunately, I think the existence of the view that 'successful = having to be a ****' is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It turns people who are trying to be successful into ****s, because they think they ought to be. One sees this in those bosses who act in a certain way towards their staff because, basically, they can, rather than engendering a culture of mutual respect. In sportspeople, it's a great shame that we see the sort of mannerisms we see in Hamilton and, to a greater extent, Andy Murray, because these are successful British people who ought not to turn people off.

[Daniel]

I think it's a real shame that this view persists, both in sport and business. I remember a few years ago reading an interview with Andy Priaulx when he started in the BTCC with Honda. He said his biggest fault was being 'too nice and letting people walk all over me', or words to that effect. Struck me as being an unusual response for a sportsman.

Unfortunately, I think the existence of the view that 'successful = having to be a ****' is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It turns people who are trying to be successful into ****s, because they think they ought to be. One sees this in those bosses who act in a certain way towards their staff because, basically, they can, rather than engendering a culture of mutual respect. In sportspeople, it's a great shame that we see the sort of mannerisms we see in Hamilton and, to a greater extent, Andy Murray, because these are successful British people who ought not to turn people off.
:up:

I've worked with those same people *shakes head*

Thankfully nice guys like Andy do get ahead in life and make a success of it.

[Daniel]

I would tend to agree with this, but you can get a fairly good idea in many cases.



Not sure I'd go along with that. While there are probably certain character traits that are common to successful sportspeople, I doubt you'd find many people who would describe Jim Clark as 'a bit of an asshole', for example.

Yup. My dad's friends wife knew Jim Clark and said he was a lovely guy :up:

[Daniel]

well ya I know..but we only get to know them how they are when they are doin there job..not how they are in there personal lifes ? Look at Max...would you ever had thought he was into those kinda things fe ? hehe ;-)

I am more into rallying myself btw ;-)



lol..hehe..shut uppppppp.. ;-)

Please do make some sort of attempt to construct proper sentences and use proper English please....

I don't get why you could be jealous of Hamilton's girlfriend. Don't get me wrong I'm sure he's probably a nice person but there are more attractive guys out there in F1 and motorsport in general. Webber, Vettel, Bourdais and Kimi to name but a few. It's like Hollywood, everyone goes on about how gorgeous these people are but if a lot of them didn't have 2 hours of makeup on and weren't famous they'd just be another person on the street that you wouldn't look at twice. Sarah Jessica "horseface" Parker springs to mind......

But that has nothing to do with Lewis, my opinion about him or this thread so I'll not mention it again but I just thought I'd mention it as you said it ;)

[mstillhere]

[quote="Tonieke"]is he arrogant because he say all the time he's great or he's the best ?..maybe..maybe not...QUOTE]

?????????

[markabilly]

While there are probably certain character traits that are common to successful sportspeople, I doubt you'd find many people who would describe Jim Clark as 'a bit of an asshole', for example.


Nor a number of other very successful drivers, people like Gurney, Bruce maclaren, Dennis Hulme, Mario Andretti (who was always very nice to me) but in the last few years, there is something of a tendency to find more drivers than not with that quality...




After what BDunnell said I just watched Hamilton's post race interview and you have to say that Lewis not knowing who had won the race was pretty bad and stating that he would have won the race if they'd had rain was pretty arrogant :mark:


Yes that was very rude and arrogant, as in which sebastian won and so on....would have won (sounds like classic sour grapes from a spoiled child).....and on and on.

If he were truly properly PR trained, then I think he would not do it. But he goes ahaed and does it anyway.

Whatever happenned to "proud in defeat and humble in victory"--sounds more like SV must have a bit more of a clue on that point.

[tinchote]

Such interview answers are particularly curious coming from a McLaren-groomed driver, as we all know how carefull they are (try to be? ;) ) in their PR.

Although now that I think about it, the "we would have won" is standard in every McLaren statement :D

[Mickey T]

Please do make some sort of attempt to construct proper sentences and use proper English please....



It's like Hollywood, everyone goes on about how gorgeous these people are but if a lot of them didn't have 2 hours of makeup on and weren't famous they'd just be another person on the street that you wouldn't look at twice. Sarah Jessica "horseface" Parker springs to mind......



i don't believe it.

i'm agreeing with daniel TWICE in the one post!

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm not surprised at all.
Me neither. This kind of thread has become all too predictable.

Again Hamilton is being bashed for things he didn't say. He didn't say he would have won. He said "if it had kept raining" he feels "pretty confident I probably could have even won".

[Daniel]

No arrows he said we WOULD have won. Those were his exact words.

[BDunnell]

Me neither. This kind of thread has become all too predictable.

I agree, for positivity is a rare commodity around here these days, but even I was moved to agree with the criticism on this occasion, and in the past I've considered it unjustified.

[ArrowsFA1]

No arrows he said we WOULD have won. Those were his exact words.
Well you're obviously getting those from somewhere else. I'm commenting on the quotes posted by ioan at the start of the thread.

[Daniel]

Well you're obviously getting those from somewhere else. I'm commenting on the quotes posted by ioan at the start of the thread.
He said it on ITV. On free to air TV. I don't care what Ioan said. Lewis said "If it had rained we woulda won" end of story.

If Autosport are quoting the interview Lewis did on ITV they are very much guilty of misquoting him.

I've watched it about 5 times now with Sky+ and there is no doubt as to what he said....

[Tonieke]

Please do make some sort of attempt to construct proper sentences and use proper English please....

I don't get why you could be jealous of Hamilton's girlfriend. Don't get me wrong I'm sure he's probably a nice person but there are more attractive guys out there in F1 and motorsport in general. Webber, Vettel, Bourdais and Kimi to name but a few. It's like Hollywood, everyone goes on about how gorgeous these people are but if a lot of them didn't have 2 hours of makeup on and weren't famous they'd just be another person on the street that you wouldn't look at twice. Sarah Jessica "horseface" Parker springs to mind......

But that has nothing to do with Lewis, my opinion about him or this thread so I'll not mention it again but I just thought I'd mention it as you said it ;)

I give up on you daniel..i always tried to stay nice to you or anyone else..but there's a bunch of people out here (including you) that just can't stand if anyone has another view on things than there own..or when u are fan of a Certain Lewis hamilton u are just a dumb..who knows nadah about motorsports..who can't speak proper English etc etc etc.... !

[ArrowsFA1]

Perish the thought that the media might misquote, or produce a misleading headline :laugh:

Whatever, even if he did say "would" I just don't get what all the fuss is about. It can't be proved or disproved either way. The fact was he did move up the field quickly and raced a strong race.

Sebastian Bourdais suggested (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70635) he might have finished third but for his problem at the start, but I don't see the same criticism levelled at him for suggesting such a thing. Felipe Massa said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70637) "In normal conditions, in other words in the dry, I think I could have made it to the podium" and his words escape any sort of negative comment.

Face it, these are the kind of things all drivers say when faced with the press immediately after a race.

[Daniel]

That's because there is an element of self doubt in their comments which is how it should be. Not cocksure comments like those made by Lewis.

[Tonieke]

That's because there is an element of self doubt in their comments which is how it should be. Not cocksure comments like those made by Lewis.

U could have expected that kinda reply Arrows....They just can't say anything positive about Lewis...

[Daniel]

I've said plenty of positive things about Lewis. I just don't see why I should say something positive about what I perceive as being arrogance.

[ioan]

lol..hehe..shut uppppppp.. ;-)

You're getting a bit rude young man, better watch it before Pino does it for you.

[Tonieke]

You're getting a bit rude young man, better watch it before Pino does it for you.

..it was mend in a fun way Mister ioan...Not noticed the lol and ;-) ? you guys take things way to serious !

[ioan]

U could have expected that kinda reply Arrows....They just can't say anything positive about Lewis...

What?!
We all know he's got big balls!
Was that positive enough for you? :rotflmao:

[ioan]

..it was mend in a fun way Mister ioan...Not noticed the lol and ;-) ? you guys take things way to serious !

Some of us just don't like arrogant people, like Lewy for example!

And I didn't find it funny, neither were your LOL's and funny faces so expressive.

[BDunnell]

Some of us just don't like arrogant people, like Lewy for example!

Is this the sort of grown-up, respectful comment you were exhorting us all to make earlier today?

Moderators, I'm so fed up with this endless repetition of the same tiresome points by certain people that I shall not be posting in the F1 forums again. I really have had enough and I know I'm not alone.

[Tonieke]

Some of us just don't like arrogant people, like Lewy for example!

And I didn't find it funny, neither were your LOL's and funny faces so expressive.

than go report my post..seems u love to do that....

[ioan]

Is this the sort of grown-up, respectful comment you were exhorting us all to make earlier today?

Moderators, I'm so fed up with this endless repetition of the same tiresome points by certain people that I shall not be posting in the F1 forums again. I really have had enough and I know I'm not alone.

So, care to tell me where did I use bad language or I posted malign personal comments?
Or did I offend someone's sense of justice by asking him not to tell people to "shut up"?
Do you find it funny that he says to another forum member to shut up, or that he then backtracks and says it was just for fun?

[Tonieke]

So, care to tell me where did I use bad language or I posted malign personal comments?
Or did I offend someone's sense of justice by asking him not to tell people to "shut up"?
Do you find it funny that he says to another forum member to shut up, or that he then backtracks and says it was just for fun?

if you think i didn't mend it in a funny way and it was insulting....report my post..have me blocked....show you are a man ! *rolling eyes*

[Zico]

Ioan.. His initial one stop strategy plan depended on the conditions staying constant... if they had and he'd maintained his impressive pace, he'd have been up there.. or there abouts.... thats all he was saying.

Your hatred for Lewis is unhealthy.. You obviously study everything he says hopeful that some content can be used to ridicule him... continually.... and its getting rather boring tbh.
Ok, he talks too much for his own good but we all have our character traits good or bad, thats just the way he is and tbh I find your twisted Hammy bashing threads far more unpallatable and sad.

[keysersoze]

Well, I was watching SpeedTV here in the states and the play-by-play (Varsha) as well as the analysts (Matchett and Windsor--where was Hobbes?) were commenting on Lewis rocketing through the field in the wet, and saying that looking at his lap times he would be very close to Vettel if it stayed wet. Vettel was due for another stop, and Lewis had made his one stop. But it began to dry and LH had to make an ADDITIONAL stop for intermediates, so his strategy was not helped by the drying conditions.

If the broadcast team sees it--having immediate access to lap and sector times--and predict it, then it's OK for Lewis to say it--because it was quite obvious.

[Daniel]

No one has a problem with Lewis saying a win was definitely possible because he was certainly capable of winning. It's just that he said the win was totally in the bag which it wasn't.

[Zico]

It's just that he said the win was totally in the bag which it wasn't.




Lewis- "I feel pretty confident I probably could have even won from 15th grid position"


In the bag? Not even close...

[markabilly]

Well, I was watching SpeedTV here in the states and the play-by-play (Varsha) as well as the analysts (Matchett and Windsor--where was Hobbes?) were commenting on Lewis rocketing through the field in the wet, and saying that looking at his lap times he would be very close to Vettel if it stayed wet. Vettel was due for another stop, and Lewis had made his one stop. But it began to dry and LH had to make an ADDITIONAL stop for intermediates, so his strategy was not helped by the drying conditions.

If the broadcast team sees it--having immediate access to lap and sector times--and predict it, then it's OK for Lewis to say it--because it was quite obvious.


That is what the printed press is saying("could") but the actual statement (perhaps not at the same time) was "woulda won" and what else is left out of the printed press (so far) were the comments about SV winning, saying something to the effect of which Sebastian as though so what.....of course the printed press has got a nice quote where Hamilton sort of congrats Vettel

Perhaps if wonder boy had smaller balls and bigger ears, he might listen to Vettel and learn something.....

[ShiftingGears]

I don't however like how the person that this life has manufactured comes across in interviews.

I totally agree.

[ArrowsFA1]

No one has a problem with Lewis saying a win was definitely possible because he was certainly capable of winning.
Good. Because that's what he was saying.

It's just that he said the win was totally in the bag which it wasn't.
And once again Hamilton is being attacked for something he didn't say :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Lewis- "I feel pretty confident I probably could have even won from 15th grid position"


In the bag? Not even close...
For petes sake. Go watch the post race interview and see what he said...... If this silly argument continues I'll video my TV screen and stick it up on Youtube and then you can eat Autosport's misquoted words.

[52Paddy]

I don't like Lewis because he inspires time-wasting discussions. :p :

:s

[Daniel]

Good. Because that's what he was saying.

And once again Hamilton is being attacked for something he didn't say :rolleyes:
He did say it. Tell you what. I'll wager a years ban from the WHOLE forum against a piddly month ban for you if I can't prove what I've said. You can have a WHOLE year without me if I can't prove it. Tell you what I'll even offer anyone else the same opportunity and Pino can add a whole YEAR onto my ban for each person who takes the challenge up if I can't prove what i've said.

Put your membership where your mouth is ;)

[Tonieke]

He did say it. Tell you what. I'll wager a years ban from the WHOLE forum against a piddly month ban for you if I can't prove what I've said. You can have a WHOLE year without me if I can't prove it. Tell you what I'll even offer anyone else the same opportunity and Pino can add a whole YEAR onto my ban for each person who takes the challenge up if I can't prove what i've said.

Put your membership where your mouth is ;)

yaaa well said Daniel...lets deal with this like grown up men ! :-)))

[Daniel]

yaaa well said Daniel...lets deal with this like grown up men ! :-)))
Well when someone pretty much calls me a liar I don't take that well :) Perhaps I'm wrong ;) Perhaps he said could've instead of woulda. Perhaps I'm wrong and I'll be banned from the forums for a couple of years :p Wouldn't it be nice to be rid of me for a few years? ;) Come on give it a go ;)

[wmcot]

I don't like Lewis because he inspires time-wasting discussions. :p :

:s

I was just thinking the same thing! I would say the anti-Lewis posts are on pace to break the anti-Schumacher post records! ;)

I'm not a Lewis fan and I was a Schumacher fan, but now I'm seeing from the other side how boring and nit-picking these anti posts can be. I will criticize Lewis when I feel he deserves it, but saying something stupid (if he really did) is not worth bothering about. If he continues to go on about it, that's one thing, but anyone can say something that doesn't come across right on the spur of the moment.

[ArrowsFA1]

He did say it.
In which case you'll be able to provide a link to the quote where Hamilton says "the win was totally in the bag".

[Daniel]

In which case you'll be able to provide a link to the quote where Hamilton says "the win was totally in the bag".
No. I'll provide you video of him saying "If it had rained we woulda won" which is what I have always claimed he said! Nothing more, nothing less. Are we on? I'll leave this open till 7pm tomorrow night so as many people as possible can be banned for a month.

[Tonieke]

Well when someone pretty much calls me a liar I don't take that well :) Perhaps I'm wrong ;) Perhaps he said could've instead of woulda. Perhaps I'm wrong and I'll be banned from the forums for a couple of years :p Wouldn't it be nice to be rid of me for a few years? ;) Come on give it a go ;)

to be honnest..ya *whisteling* ;-))...oh Ioan this also was mend in a funny way..just in case you wanne hit the report button again !

[Tonieke]

No. I'll provide you video of him saying "If it had rained we woulda won" which is what I have always claimed he said! Nothing more, nothing less. Are we on? I'll leave this open till 7pm tomorrow night so as many people as possible can be banned for a month.


your words daniel..sorry !

*It's just that he said the win was totally in the bag which it wasn't.*

[Daniel]

your words daniel..sorry !

*It's just that he said the win was totally in the bag which it wasn't.*
You'll find that I was paraphrasing.

I've always claimed that what he actually said was If it had rained we woulda won

[ArrowsFA1]

No. I'll provide you video of him saying "If it had rained we woulda won" which is what I have always claimed he said! Nothing more, nothing less.
This is what you claimed he said:

It's just that he said the win was totally in the bag which it wasn't.
So it's gone from "woulda won" to "the win was totally in the bag".

It has got to the point when what he actually says matters not at all.

[Daniel]

This is what you claimed he said:

So it's gone from "woulda won" to "the win was totally in the bag".

It has got to the point when what he actually says matters not at all.
It's called paraphrasing dude.

The wording of what Lewis said is irrelevant anyway.

I was assured of a win if it kept raining.
If it had rained I woulda won
If it had rained the win was in the bag
if it had rained I was going to win
I would've won if it had kept on raining

They all mean the same thing in the end anyway.

I understand if you don't want take up my extremely generous offer but please don't try this crap on me :dozey: What Lewis says is very much relevant because that's how we form our views of people.

I just want to say my very generous offer still stands :)

You've got 3 options

Stick by your man and Autosport and take up the challenge and possibly end up ridding the forum of me for a whole year.
Realise that Lewis said what I claim he said and that it's perhaps a little arrogant.
Realise that Lewis did say the things I claim he said yet don't admit it on the forum and sit there in your little corner with your arms crossed and a pout because it's not what you wanted.

[ArrowsFA1]

...please don't try this crap on me :dozey:
What crap?

My view was formed by the quotes in the post that started this thread. In my view they are the words of a driver telling the media how his race was. He says he drove a good race (I agree), he says he moved through the field quickly (he did), and he speculates that had it been wet he could have won (not entirely impossible).

I'm well aware of paraphrasing. It's what tabloids do to put a particular slant on a story. If you read the story invariably the attention grabbing headline does not match the content, but the intended impression has already been created by then so the substance of the story doesn't matter much. Invariably the story itself is pretty insignificant as well.

That's what we have here.

[Daniel]

What crap?

My view was formed by the quotes in the post that started this thread. In my view they are the words of a driver telling the media how his race was. He says he drove a good race (I agree), he says he moved through the field quickly (he did), and he speculates that had it been wet he could have won (not entirely impossible).

I'm well aware of paraphrasing. It's what tabloids do to put a particular slant on a story. If you read the story invariably the attention grabbing headline does not match the content, but the intended impression has already been created by then so the substance of the story doesn't matter much. Invariably the story itself is pretty insignificant as well.

That's what we have here.

The crap? The crap is when you almost go as far to say that I'm lying.

I was saying that I was paraphrasing when I said that Lewis said he had it in the bag......

I agree with your summary of what he said other than that he said he could have won. He didn't say that in the post race interview with ITV he said that he WOULD have won which is quite different.

Like I said my rather generous offer is still open! :)

[SGWilko]

Well, let us not lose sight of the following facts.

Lewis was pretty much the fastest guy out there on the full wets, passing people and making them look very silly. So, he certainly has a point about being good in the wet.

He had gone (admittedly, with help from two stoppers making their stops) from 14th (bourdais) to second before his first stop, and was closing in on Vettel fast. (where was Ferraris recently re-signed boy wonder?)

Had it continued raining, knowing the two facts above, there is every real chance he would have won.

Shock horror. :(

Edit, and he was on a very heavy fuel load.........

[Knock-on]

Fortunatly, ioan is on my ignore list so I haven't had the pleasure of reading the first post.

However, if I were to speculate, I would guess it was some sort of dig at Lewis for claiming he could have won if it had rained?

Is this just a case of Lewis stating the obvious?

Then we get the normal entorage bleating about him being arrogant, boastful etc which sinks to the normal driver bashing we seem to get on every thread.

Oh well, on with the bashing boys.

[Daniel]

Fortunatly, ioan is on my ignore list so I haven't had the pleasure of reading the first post.

However, if I were to speculate, I would guess it was some sort of dig at Lewis for claiming he could have won if it had rained?

Is this just a case of Lewis stating the obvious?

Then we get the normal entorage bleating about him being arrogant, boastful etc which sinks to the normal driver bashing we seem to get on every thread.

Oh well, on with the bashing boys.
Knockie :) My issue is with Lewis saying he would have won if it had rained. It's clear that he could have won if it had rained but to claim it was a sure thing is a little bit arrogant IMHO :)

[SGWilko]

Knockie :) My issue is with Lewis saying he would have won if it had rained. It's clear that he could have won if it had rained but to claim it was a sure thing is a little bit arrogant IMHO :)

Nope http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70626 he as quoted as saying COULD have won.

Don't worry, a C is as good as a W.... ;)

[Daniel]

Nope http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70626 he as quoted as saying COULD have won.

Don't worry, a C is as good as a W.... ;)

*Sigh*

He said WOULD on the ITV interview. I'll prove it in time.

[SGWilko]

*Sigh*

He said WOULD on the ITV interview. I'll prove it in time.

OK, fairy muff. I'll be the first to put my hands up and apologise when you post the link, as I've not seen that. :)

[Daniel]

OK, fairy muff. I'll be the first to put my hands up and apologise when you post the link, as I've not seen that. :)
No problems :) I'll put the video up tomorrow night. Will see if anyone's stupid enough to take my challenge before then though :p

[Daniel]

ROFL it's on the ITV site :)

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43963

[ArrowsFA1]

The crap? The crap is when you almost go as far to say that I'm lying.

I was saying that I was paraphrasing when I said that Lewis said he had it in the bag......
To paraphrase something is to express the meaning of (in this case) Hamilton's words in another way for a particular effect. By using the words 'the win was totally in the bag' the desired effect was obvious IMHO.

That's not me saying you're lying, or even "almost" going as far as to suggest that :rolleyes: I don't doubt that you heard him say "would" in an interview. Still, my point remains that he had justification for such speculation given his pace during the race, just as Bourdais and Massa (comments highlighted earlier) had justification in speculating at what might have happened to their races...

[Tonieke]

Knockie :) My issue is with Lewis saying he would have won if it had rained. It's clear that he could have won if it had rained but to claim it was a sure thing is a little bit arrogant IMHO :)

Nowwwwwwwwwwww...what if he did the interview right after he checked the laptimes..noticing he was the fastest in those rainy conditions...making a logic conclusion..stating he WOULD have won if it kept raining ?

[SGWilko]

ROFL it's on the ITV site :)

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43963

I stand corrected - my hands is in the air..... :)

[Daniel]

To paraphrase something is to express the meaning of (in this case) Hamilton's words in another way for a particular effect. By using the words 'the win was totally in the bag' the desired effect was obvious IMHO.

The desired effect eh? As in being the same as him saying "I would have won"? That's my point.


That's not me saying you're lying, or even "almost" going as far as to suggest that :rolleyes: I don't doubt that you heard him say "would" in an interview. Still, my point remains that he had justification for such speculation given his pace during the race, just as Bourdais and Massa (comments highlighted earlier) had justification in speculating at what might have happened to their races...

The thing is with Hamilton there was no speculation really. He said he WOULD have won if the rain had come. The only IF in that statement is in regards to the weather.

[Knock-on]

Are we argueing about Lewis saying that he thinks that if it had of rained that he would have won?

Surely that's a logical opinion to express.

He hasn't said that if it rained, it was in the bag, or it was definatly his race.

He just expressed his opinion that he thought he would win if it had of rained as he was up to 2nd. He was also on fresh wets and closing on Vettel who was on inters. If it had of rained, who beleives he wouldn't have won and why?

[Knock-on]

The desired effect eh? As in being the same as him saying "I would have won"? That's my point.



The thing is with Hamilton there was no speculation really. He said he WOULD have won if the rain had come. The only IF in that statement is in regards to the weather.

Daniel. I beleive he said he thinks he would have won?

[ioan]

ROFL it's on the ITV site :)

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43963

Excellent! :up:

[Daniel]

I stand corrected - my hands is in the air..... :)
No problems :) At least someone here is willing to admit that they got the wrong end of the stick and move on :)

[ioan]

No problems :) At least someone here is willing to admit that they got the wrong end of the stick and move on :)

Yep he's a fair guy, he also reckoned he was wrong in the McLaren debate last season. :up:
Some still didn't get half way to that.

[Tonieke]

The thing is with Hamilton there was no speculation really. He said he WOULD have won if the rain had come. The only IF in that statement is in regards to the weather.

why would there be speculation ? to me ...laptimes show it's ok for him to say that given the situation as it was at that moment...He would have won !

[SGWilko]

No problems :) is willing to admit that they got the wrong end of the stick :)

You sound like my wife!!!!!! LOL :D

[Daniel]

You sound like my wife!!!!!! LOL :D
Your wife is Australian and a man? :p

[ArrowsFA1]

The desired effect eh? As in being the same as him saying "I would have won"?
No. The desired effect of emphasising Hamilton's perceived arrogance.

[SGWilko]

Your wife is Australian and a man? :p

I hope not, but I double check tonight. :D

[Daniel]

No. The desired effect of emphasising Hamilton's perceived arrogance.
Oh for petes sake. In the bag, would have won it's all the frigging same. Stop waffling on and admit that Lewis was a bit silly and be done with it.

Even BDunnell can see what people are talking about and Ben is Mr Reasonable.

[Knock-on]

Why was he a bit silly? Have I missed that bit?

What don't you agree with Dan?

[ShiftingGears]

I don't remember Hamilton being particularly cocky at the start of last year, after his first win. Maybe he was, or maybe he's just got to a stage where he's believed the hype surrounding him.

[ArrowsFA1]

Oh for petes sake...
You asked the question Daniel.

[ioan]

No. The desired effect of emphasising Hamilton's perceived arrogance.

Your perception might not be the same with that others get, but that doesn't mean that you are right and the rest are wrong even when they bring the proof to the discussion.

[Daniel]

I don't remember Hamilton being particularly cocky at the start of last year, after his first win. Maybe he was, or maybe he's just got to a stage where he's believed the hype surrounding him.
Neither do I. I quite liked him back then. But it just seems like all the hype is getting to him and like you say he's beginning to believe it just a bit too much. Perhaps Vettel will turn that way in the future but until then he'll be an example of how it should be done :up:

[ArrowsFA1]

Your perception might not be the same with that others get, but that doesn't mean that you are right and the rest are wrong...
Absolutely right ioan :up: Completely agree with you :up:

...even when they bring the proof to the discussion.
Proof of what exactly? Proof that Hamilton said "would" (he is also quoted as saying "could") doesn't prove anything other than he said something. How people then interpret what he says is a matter of opinion.

[Daniel]

Absolutely right ioan :up: Completely agree with you :up:

Proof of what exactly? Proof that Hamilton said "would" (he is also quoted as saying "could") doesn't prove anything other than he said something. How people then interpret what he says is a matter of opinion.
There's no need to interpret anything. I would have won means I would have won. If he'd said could we wouldn't be here having this discussion as I think that's a valid point.

[AndyRAC]

Tough one, there is a fine line between cocky-arrogance/ super confident. Another thing, Hamilton shows something that too few British sportsmen have, a will to win and belief they will win. Too many are beaten before they take the pitch/court/track, etc So that is a good trait to have, however, somebody needs to have a word that the confidence is becoming arrogance.

[Daniel]

Tough one, there is a fine line between cocky-arrogance/ super confident. Another thing, Hamilton shows something that too few British sportsmen have, a will to win and belief they will win. Too many are beaten before they take the pitch/court/track, etc So that is a good trait to have, however, somebody needs to have a word that the confidence is becoming arrogance.
I think Hamilton also has something which a lot of other British sportspeople don't have..... the ability to win :p

[Tonieke]

There's no need to interpret anything. I would have won means I would have won. If he'd said could we wouldn't be here having this discussion as I think that's a valid point.

againnnnnnnnnnn...and having prove because of the lap times....he was the fastest at that moment of the race..so with them data in mind he made a logic conclusion..stating he WOULD have won if it kept raining...

like someone else would say..damn if the 5 was a 6..I WOULD have won the lottery...is that being arrogant ? not at all !

[ArrowsFA1]

If he'd said could we wouldn't be here having this discussion as I think that's a valid point.
He did say "could", and in a third (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70659) interview he's said "I think a win was possible".

[Knock-on]

What a storm in a tea cup. To think we are debating what a driver thinks would have happened.


Hamilton reckoned he could have beaten Vettel to the win had the rain returned at the right moment.


"I think today I wasn't really lucky," he said.


"I think I drove a really good race.


"I took it easy at the beginning, and then started to close everyone down, and pulled off some good moves when I needed to.


"I was coming through the field, I think I was up to second at one stage, and if it had rained, I would've won.


"But it didn't happen."

As I said, what's the big deal.

Does anyone disagree with what he said?

He thinks he was up to 2nd and would have won if it rained but it didn't.

He was up to 2nd, he was closing fast on Vettel and was on fresh wet tyres.

If it had of rained, the inters of Seb would have been no good and he would have had to pit so what he is saying is logical isn't it?

Are we now criticising drivers for stating the bloody obvious :laugh:

[Hawkmoon]

Such interview answers are particularly curious coming from a McLaren-groomed driver, as we all know how carefull they are (try to be? ;) ) in their PR.

Although now that I think about it, the "we would have won" is standard in every McLaren statement :D


Me neither. This kind of thread has become all too predictable.

Again Hamilton is being bashed for things he didn't say. He didn't say he would have won. He said "if it had kept raining" he feels "pretty confident I probably could have even won".

Arrows I don't think ioan's having a go at Hamilton per se, he's having a laugh at McLaren's habit of listing all the reasons they could have won if only things had gone their way.

tinchote's knows where ioan's coming from and so do I, so maybe it stands out a little more for we Tifosi (am I allowed to call myself that even though I'm not Italian?).

[Tonieke]

Arrows I don't think ioan's having a go at Hamilton per se, he's having a laugh at McLaren's habit of listing all the reasons they could have won if only things had gone their way.

tinchote's knows where ioan's coming from and so do I, so maybe it stands out a little more for we Tifosi (am I allowed to call myself that even though I'm not Italian?).

Felipe is doin exactly the same as Lewis "In normal conditions, in other words in the dry, I think I could have made it to the podium"

It's a normal thing in sport to come up with excuses and stuff..not sure why anyone should have a laugh about these things...

[ioan]

Arrows I don't think ioan's having a go at Hamilton per se, he's having a laugh at McLaren's habit of listing all the reasons they could have won if only things had gone their way.

:up:


tinchote's knows where ioan's coming from and so do I, so maybe it stands out a little more for we Tifosi (am I allowed to call myself that even though I'm not Italian?).

In fact it's about the state of mind one has when reading other members posts.
If you want to see something negative than you will ultimately find it and than you will disagree with a post that wasn't meant to be a bash fest, only a lighthearted funny remark.

Common people let's try to see things for what they are not for what we expect them to be in order to have a dispute and settle some older accounts.

Cheers to everyone.

PS: I bet next time he won't win we'll get the same line from Hamilton and McLaren, and I will still find it funny and incredible that they are not realizing it. ;)

[Azumanga Davo]

What's the guy to do? Personally I don't think he going to do this:

Interviewer: What are your chances on winning the GP, Lewis?
Lewis: Well, I qualified rather poorly today and I don't think the race will go any better honestly. The engine is rooted, chassis is understeering like a chav in a Nova and I think the stewards will behave like d***heads and have a penalty next to my name afterwards...

Of course you are going to talk yourself up. It's what your fans, your team, your sponsors, heck even your family want you to feel positive and do well. ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Arrows I don't think ioan's having a go at Hamilton per se...
Perhaps, although it would be nice not to see Hamilton introduced into almost every thread under some pretence or another.

Cheers to everyone.
:beer:

[ioan]

What's the guy to do? Personally I don't think he going to do this:

Interviewer: What are your chances on winning the GP, Lewis?
Lewis: Well, I qualified rather poorly today and I don't think the race will go any better honestly. The engine is rooted, chassis is understeering like a chav in a Nova and I think the stewards will behave like d***heads and have a penalty next to my name afterwards...

Of course you are going to talk yourself up. It's what your fans, your team, your sponsors, heck even your family want you to feel positive and do well. ;)

The only difference being that we are talking about POST race interviews! ;)

[Azumanga Davo]

The only difference being that we are talking about POST race interviews! ;)

Well, that's fair, but then again would you air your troubles and strife through the media to millions of potential households? Teams still expect you to tow the 'happy' line, no matter what.

Look at Prost and Ferrari, the last case I can think of where a driver was fired for having some choice words that weren't exactly glowing towards the team. ;)