Dirty racing from Hamilton

[Viktory]

Incidents with Webber, Fisichella, in the first chicane, and Glock just after

He moves within the braking zone, pushes people off the circuit... I think the way he behaved today is a danger to the other drivers.

[gloomyDAY]

http://cornerstork.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/crying_baby.jpg

[Viktory]

that was a pointless post..

[gloomyDAY]

So is this thread...

[Viktory]

So is this thread...

so you think safety is pointless?

[Bradley]

Incidents with Webber, Fisichella, in the first chicane, and Glock just after

He moves within the braking zone, pushes people off the circuit... I think the way he behaved today is a danger to the other drivers.

Just posted the same comments in the How many lane changes by Hamilton to keep Raikonen behind? thread. I have a lot of respect for all the other drivers, without exception, for keeping their cool and sportsmanship while Hamilton is passing them.

[gloomyDAY]

so you think safety is pointless?No, just your lack of judgment in making this thread. There is a balance between being aggressive and being reckless. Hamilton was the former and never the latter.

[dwf1]

well the only one that was close was Webber.......Everyone moved in the braking zone because everyone braked on the wet line and then moved across. Ive been karting with pro karts alot of the time and ive been alot closer than them so stop your moaning

[Tonieke]

so you think safety is pointless?

No it is called racing..defending his position hard..JUST like Kimi did goin into the chicane in Spa ! But as far as I remember that was ok for you..so don't see why you make a point of it this time ?

[Dave B]

It's not a tickling contest, it's motor racing. I saw parallels with Michael Schumacher today.

[dwf1]

No it is called racing..defending his position hard..JUST like Kimi did goin into the chicane in Spa ! But as far as I remember that was ok for you..so don't see why you make a point of it this time ?

yeah of course it was ok.....IT WAS A FERRARI!

[Bradley]

There is a balance between being aggressive and being reckless. Hamilton was the former and never the latter.

That's nothing about racing or being agressive, that's just lack of respect.

If everybody should race like him, he would have passed exactly NOBODY (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=97420) today.

[dwf1]

It's not a tickling contest, it's motor racing. I saw parallels with Michael Schumacher today.

If it is, can we put feathers in the cockpits and they recieve a penalty for the laughing!!

FIA: drive-through for Car 1 for laughing

[BDunnell]

It's not a tickling contest, it's motor racing. I saw parallels with Michael Schumacher today.

Me too, and I never thought there was much wrong with Schumacher's driving standards despite all the moans about him. He was just super-aggressive and so is Hamilton.

[gloomyDAY]

That's nothing about racing or being agressive, that's just lack of respect.

If everybody should race like him, he would have passed exactly NOBODY (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=97420) today. :laugh:

The drivers should now politely ask one another to pass.

[BDunnell]

Like I said in another thread, I reckon some people here would be appalled by Dijon in 1979, to give one example, were a similar scrap to occur today. "Villeneuve could have caused a huge accident by diving down the inside like that...", that sort of thing.

[dwf1]

:laugh:

The drivers should now politely ask one another to pass.


Vettel: Hi Bourdais, may i lap you?
Bourdais: yes you may, sutil, would you mind moving to you left?
Sutil: no I don't mind, for you, ANYTHING!!

[Sleeper]

The only move I had a problem with is when Webber came at him into turn 1, should have left him a few more inches there. Other than that, everyone was doing the same thing (moving back towards the racing line under braking) because T1 is so tight and no-one would be able to pass otherwise.

Fisichella's ducking and diving to keep people behind is more of a concern to me.

[BDunnell]

The only move I had a problem with is when Webber came at him into turn 1, should have left him a few more inches there. Other than that, everyone was doing the same thing (moving back towards the racing line under braking) because T1 is so tight and no-one would be able to pass otherwise.

Fisichella's ducking and diving to keep people behind is more of a concern to me.

Not me. I thought it was good, resolute defending in a slower car.

[HereIam]

if Glock or Webber ended up in the wall breaking some bone, you wouldn't call it just 'dirty racing'...

[dwf1]

Like I said in another thread, I reckon some people here would be appalled by Dijon in 1979, to give one example, were a similar scrap to occur today. "Villeneuve could have caused a huge accident by diving down the inside like that...", that sort of thing.

how many 25sec pens would he have got that day!!
and safety is better today....stop moaning!!!

[BDunnell]

if Glock or Webber ended up in the wall breaking some bone, you wouldn't call it just 'dirty racing'...

But they didn't, and if you took that argument to its natural conclusion, F1 wouldn't exist 'because it's too dangerous'. I agree that a line has to be drawn somewhere, but it seems to me that some people want that line drawn at a point that rules out any driving that's a bit more aggressive than the norm 'because it could cause a big accident'.

You could say that of Alonso's passes on Schumacher round the outside of the 130R at Suzuka in 2005. They were fantastically exhilarating to watch, but they could have been bloody dangerous. Should he have made the moves? Of course he should.

[dwf1]

If f1 was mad safe, no-one would watch it. Ive had to write health and safety forms on karting and its difficult because so many things can happen.....f1 would not happen if safety come into it

[HereIam]

But they didn't, and if you took that argument to its natural conclusion, F1 wouldn't exist 'because it's too dangerous'. I agree that a line has to be drawn somewhere, but it seems to me that some people want that line drawn at a point that rules out any driving that's a bit more aggressive than the norm 'because it could cause a big accident'.

You could say that of Alonso's passes on Schumacher round the outside of the 130R at Suzuka in 2005. They were fantastically exhilarating to watch, but they could have been bloody dangerous. Should he have made the moves? Of course he should.

in normal conditions, I would agree, but today it was just too wet for silliness...

[tinchote]

It's not a tickling contest, it's motor racing. I saw parallels with Michael Schumacher today.

I agree :up:

The problem is that many on these forums, for years, have even called MS a criminal for moves like that. I think that's the reason why this thread exists. It would be nice to see that people calling LH a criminal, too ;) :D

[dwf1]

in normal conditions, I would agree, but today it was just too wet for silliness...

Too wet!! the incidents you are on about happened later in the race when it was just as dry as spa so don't say it was too wet, Fuji was too wet!!

[elinagr]

dirty racing because he is dirty?:P

[F1boat]

Hamilton is dangerous. I am happy that he didn't hurt anyone.

[ioan]

Incidents with Webber, Fisichella, in the first chicane, and Glock just after

He moves within the braking zone, pushes people off the circuit... I think the way he behaved today is a danger to the other drivers.

Totally agree, he made at least 3 very dangerous moves, where he pushed other off the circuit or touched them in the braking zone.

Was listening to Wurz's commentary and he said that these dangerous things shouldn't arrive, and are all discussed in the drivers meetings and briefings before the race.

[gloomyDAY]

Hamilton is dangerous. I am happy that he didn't hurt anyone.Yes, Hamilton is dangerous. He was stalking down the drivers like easy prey. As Dave said before, this isn't a tickling contest. Racing at its best!


Totally agree, he made at least 3 very dangerous moves, where he pushed other off the circuit or touched them in the braking zone.

Was listening to Wurz's commentary and he said that these dangerous things shouldn't arrive, and are all discussed in the drivers meetings and briefings before the race.Well, there is a simple solution this problem, F1 shouldn't be dangerous anymore. The speed limit should be capped at 65 MPH in order to ensure safety and boredom. As I stated in another thread, the drivers should also ask for permission before attempting a pass.

[VkmSpouge]

Lewis Hamilton was racing very aggressively today but the only move that got me concerned was the wheel banging with Mark Webber.

[ioan]

Well, there is a simple solution this problem, F1 shouldn't be dangerous anymore. The speed limit should be capped at 65 MPH in order to ensure safety and boredom. As I stated in another thread, the drivers should also ask for permission before attempting a pass.

Or even easier, the drivers should stick to some of the driving ethic, at least those who ever knew what that is, and I'm sure at least one of them never heard about this concept before.
If the only way he can pass is by bullying others of the track with very dangerous moves, than he better go to a destruction derby, and take DC with him too.

[dwf1]

Yes, Hamilton is dangerous. He was stalking down the drivers like easy prey. As Dave said before, this isn't a tickling contest. Racing at its best!

Well, there is a simple solution this problem, F1 shouldn't be dangerous anymore. The speed limit should be capped at 65 MPH in order to ensure safety and boredom. As I stated in another thread, the drivers should also ask for permission before attempting a pass.

65mph!!! thats a bit quick......make it more 40mph

[ioan]

Lewis Hamilton was racing very aggressively today but the only move that got me concerned was the wheel banging with Mark Webber.

Pushing Glock on the grass at more 250 kph was even worse and the outcome could have been catastrophic.
But hey, this is what you get with a driver that thinks with his balls, cause he got no brain.

[dwf1]

Pushing Glock on the grass at more 250 kph was even worse and the outcome could have been catastrophic.
But hey, this is what you get with a driver that thinks with his balls, cause he got no brain.

You drive with mirrors the size of pins and spray going up then don't cut me up as I hit your back wheel

[Daniel]

I think Hamilton did some great overtakes today but I think that move on Webber was unacceptable. It was dangerous and deliberate. I think it should at least earn him a warning. It was easily enough to put both cars out of the race. If Hamilton doesn't stop with this sort of move then someone's going to get hurt. If you call that good racing then good for you. If you want to see people needlessly put in danger then go and watch boxing or bullfighting.

[PSfan]

Yes, Hamilton is dangerous. He was stalking down the drivers like easy prey. As Dave said before, this isn't a tickling contest. Racing at its best!



No its the dumbest way to race for a championship... What if the toyota Hamilton pushed to 2 wheels off the road lost it and collected Hamilton? How about cutting right in front of ALonso and messing up his downforce... would have looked real good if the Renault lost control and slammed into the back of Lewis, Webber was clearly catching Lewis before the incident, and dropped back, probably from some damage from their tires hitting, which could have easily have happened to Hamilton as well...


And whats really great about it all was Hamiltons stupid comment about "Kimi could have been more fair" which makes Hamilton a hypocrit...

[Tonieke]

here.....especialy made for you ioan and all those other Hamilton obsessed people...

Manual :Print it out..hang it on your wall...and start throwing them darts at it..

I have been told it helps in working off your frustration ! at least if you don't miss that is ! ;-))

[ioan]

You drive with mirrors the size of pins and spray going up then don't cut me up as I hit your back wheel

He was just passing Glock, so there was no need for mirrors, he knew he was there and he pushed him wide on purpose.

[dwf1]

To tell the truth, I would like everyone to shut up. Its been a brilliant days racing with a new winner and everyone yet again goes on about Lewis's driving whether good or bad. Lewis had a decent race and thats it. Some people just can't keep off his back.....whether it is a motive of not liking the guy or team or just some other dark motives, that I rather hope it is not.........I remember cool runnings quote and if anyone has seen the film, they can find the quote..........I hope he can silents all the people who get on his back........

[yodasarmpit]

Ohh dear god, this is F1 motor racing.
I don't know about some of you, but I actually want to see them race aggressively.
Bloody hell, some of you would argue any point so long as it was in opposition to big balls Lewis :)

[ioan]

I think Hamilton did some great overtakes today but I think that move on Webber was unacceptable. It was dangerous and deliberate. I think it should at least earn him a warning. It was easily enough to put both cars out of the race. If Hamilton doesn't stop with this sort of move then someone's going to get hurt. If you call that good racing then good for you. If you want to see people needlessly put in danger then go and watch boxing or bullfighting.

Totally agree, there is a limit to aggressiveness, even in Boxing and IceHockey, and so much more when traveling 300 kph on awet track.

Those who think it is OK are no f1 fans, just ordinary people who watch race for crashes. :down;

[gloomyDAY]

Why are some of you being so sensitive?

Nobody was hurt and the racing was incredible.
This is just another thread to bash on Lewis.

There is always a thread like this after each race. We should probably designate a thread where everyone can bash Lewis after every race and then the rest of us can get on with the real objective of sports - enjoyment.

P.S. This is my last post in this thread. If you disagree with anything I have posted, please refer to my first post. Thank you!

[dwf1]

He was just passing Glock, so there was no need for mirrors, he knew he was there and he pushed him wide on purpose.

no in wet conditions you look in your mirrors under acceleration to see if they have a run on you. Been there done that........Racing changes alot in the wet, thats why lewis tried to stay tight on the corner to KEEP the position

[ioan]

No its the dumbest way to race for a championship... What if the toyota Hamilton pushed to 2 wheels off the road lost it and collected Hamilton? How about cutting right in front of ALonso and messing up his downforce... would have looked real good if the Renault lost control and slammed into the back of Lewis, Webber was clearly catching Lewis before the incident, and dropped back, probably from some damage from their tires hitting, which could have easily have happened to Hamilton as well...


And whats really great about it all was Hamiltons stupid comment about "Kimi could have been more fair" which makes Hamilton a hypocrit...

Hamilton is a brainless idiot, a fast one, but a stupid one too.
Today's incidents are clear indication to why he doesn't want to take part in the GPDA, they would hung him because of his stupid moves.

[ioan]

no in wet conditions you look in your mirrors under acceleration to see if they have a run on you. Been there done that........Racing changes alot in the wet, thats why lewis tried to stay tight on the corner to KEEP the position

Glocks front wing and front tire was just a bit behind his front wheel, I'm pretty sure he knew he was there, unless he is blind and then he shouldn't in F1, idiot + blind id enough reason for that.

[Viktory]

Hamilton is a brainless idiot, a fast one, but a stupid one too.
Today's incidents are clear indication to why he doesn't want to take part in the GPDA, they would hung him because of his stupid moves.

Quite ironic that it was the head of the GPDA he almost took out as well...

[dwf1]

Totally agree, there is a limit to aggressiveness, even in Boxing and IceHockey, and so much more when traveling 300 kph on awet track.

Those who think it is OK are no f1 fans, just ordinary people who watch race for crashes. :down;

No there are some people who just watch f1 to purposely watch f1 to find a point to be critical against lewis........LEWIS HAS BALLS just like the other drivers.........I'd like you to race in a go-kart race.....you would moan so much you would lose your voice

[dwf1]

Glocks front wing and front tire was just a bit behind his front wheel, I'm pretty sure he knew he was there, unless he is blind and then he shouldn't in F1, idiot + blind id enough reason for that.

They were there when he had already known that lewis would squeeze him because the racing line goes along there........

[BDunnell]

Pushing Glock on the grass at more 250 kph was even worse and the outcome could have been catastrophic.
But hey, this is what you get with a driver that thinks with his balls, cause he got no brain.

Is there any need for the endless insults, ioan? And, by the way, the correct English is 'he hasn't got a brain'.

Anyway, the same could be said of many other moves, like Schumacher and Alonso going side-by-side down the Hangar Straight at Silverstone in 2003, during which Alonso got forced onto the grass. Did you think that was dangerous or just aggressive? I thought it was the latter, though I realise that you have a highly... er, selective memory when it comes to things like this.

[dwf1]

You should learn that when you overtake it is up to the person behind to position his car so that he does not get forced off......any racer learns that from the start.....alot of people just want him stopped so that he can not dominate!

[Daniel]

He was just passing Glock, so there was no need for mirrors, he knew he was there and he pushed him wide on purpose.

To be fair I thought the incident (if you can call it that) with Glock was OK. It was tough but it was OK. You could reasonably argue that Lewis had spray to contend with with that incident so I don't really think you can complain about it.

[BDunnell]

Ohh dear god, this is F1 motor racing.
I don't know about some of you, but I actually want to see them race aggressively.
Bloody hell, some of you would argue any point so long as it was in opposition to big balls Lewis :)

Absolutely. Once again, I'm getting utterly sick of some members who spoil what would otherwise be some excellent discussions about F1 with their opinions that are based solely on their own personal team affiliations and driver likes/dislikes, which is not how having opinions works. I don't class these people as proper F1 enthusiasts, as there is a big difference between fans and enthusiasts in my book.

[dwf1]

Absolutely. Once again, I'm getting utterly sick of some members who spoil what would otherwise be some excellent discussions about F1 with their opinions that are based solely on their own personal team affiliations and driver likes/dislikes, which is not how having opinions works. I don't class these people as proper F1 enthusiasts, as there is a big difference between fans and enthusiasts in my book.

amen!!!!

[Viktory]

isn't it better to keep this discussion in this thread instead of there being no specific thread and it being spread all over?
This is a discussion forum, people have differing opinions, and I thought this was a place to discuss this. Or have I completely misunderstood something?

[Daniel]

Why are some of you being so sensitive?

Nobody was hurt and the racing was incredible.
This is just another thread to bash on Lewis.

There is always a thread like this after each race. We should probably designate a thread where everyone can bash Lewis after every race and then the rest of us can get on with the real objective of sports - enjoyment.

P.S. This is my last post in this thread. If you disagree with anything I have posted, please refer to my first post. Thank you!

What about the fact that someone could have been hurt? Is that not of concern? Ah well who gives a **** lets do something when someone gets hurt or killed and not before :)

Even Brundle said TWICE "Lewis Hamilton is pushing his luck...." after watching the Webber incident. Now Brundle is hardly one to criticise Lewis for no reason is he? ;)

It's always funny until someone gets hurt isn't it?

[Dave B]

Absolutely. Once again, I'm getting utterly sick of some members who spoil what would otherwise be some excellent discussions about F1 with their opinions that are based solely on their own personal team affiliations and driver likes/dislikes, which is not how having opinions works. I don't class these people as proper F1 enthusiasts, as there is a big difference between fans and enthusiasts in my book.

:) :up:

It's becoming tiresome and predictable.

[dwf1]

What about the fact that someone could have been hurt? Is that not of concern? Ah well who gives a **** lets do something when someone gets hurt or killed and not before :)

Even Brundle said TWICE "Lewis Hamilton is pushing his luck...." after watching the Webber incident. Now Brundle is hardly one to criticise Lewis for no reason is he? ;)

It's always funny until someone gets hurt isn't it?


Anyone can be hurt anytime they get in a normal road car so lets stop doing that too???

[Dave B]

What about the fact that someone could have been hurt? Is that not of concern? Ah well who gives a **** lets do something when someone gets hurt or killed and not before :)

Even Brundle said TWICE "Lewis Hamilton is pushing his luck...." after watching the Webber incident. Now Brundle is hardly one to criticise Lewis for no reason is he? ;)

It's always funny until someone gets hurt isn't it?

One could equally apply that logic to Massa's early pit release at Valenia - y'know, the one judged to be unsafe but left un-punished as no harm resulted.

"Pushing your luck" is how you rise to the top. Staying just about the right side of the line between being ruthless and being dangerous.

[Daniel]

Anyone can be hurt anytime they get in a normal road car so lets stop doing that too???
Good point.

I stubbed by toe this morning. We should ban walking.

Of course we shouldn't stop on the road but you have to give people a fair amoung of room and not do anything unexpected. Why are we comparing driving on the road to driving on a race track anyway?

[dwf1]

Good point.

I stubbed by toe this morning. We should ban walking.

Of course we shouldn't stop on the road but you have to give people a fair amoung of room and not do anything unexpected. Why are we comparing driving on the road to driving on a race track anyway?

Which roads do you drive in?? obviously not in britain and definatly in Coventry

[BDunnell]

What about the fact that someone could have been hurt? Is that not of concern? Ah well who gives a **** lets do something when someone gets hurt or killed and not before :)

F1 is full of such incidents. Sometimes they look dangerous, sometimes they don't. What about my earlier example of Alonso's passes of Schumacher round the outside of the 130R at Suzuka three years ago, then? Those moves were potentially two of the most dangerous I've ever seen, for had the two cars touched the consequences could have been enormous, but of course it was right that Alonso tried the seemingly impossible and hazardous.

[markabilly]

Absolutely. Once again, I'm getting utterly sick of some members who spoil what would otherwise be some excellent discussions about F1 with their opinions that are based solely on their own personal team affiliations and driver likes/dislikes, which is not how having opinions works. I don't class these people as proper F1 enthusiasts, as there is a big difference between fans and enthusiasts in my book.


I agree. Ban them all. Let us start with those talking heads. Esp those on Speed TV and ITV. Obviously playing favorites and repeating opinions based solely upon who they like. Poor David Hobbes was about to have a cow when a mention of Spa would come up, and then suddenly say: "Well, I better not say anything for fear I will get in trouble.....'

Chop their heads off. And while at it, let us chop off all those fingers off all those posters that do not agree with you. After all, it is okay to have opinions consistent with yours, but not okay to be contrary, because we all know those who disagree, do it for reasons such as blind loyalty to their team or driver.....
Chop chop chop.

[Daniel]

Which roads do you drive in?? obviously not in britain and definatly in Coventry

What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? :confused:

[ioan]

No there are some people who just watch f1 to purposely watch f1 to find a point to be critical against lewis........LEWIS HAS BALLS just like the other drivers.........I'd like you to race in a go-kart race.....you would moan so much you would lose your voice

FYI I was watching F1 when Lewy was playing in the sand box, with his "balls".
And I never watched F1 for crashes.

[AndyRAC]

I'm surprised nobody has blamed Hamilton for the Hurricane in America - after all, everything is his fault.......

[dwf1]

Mika and Schuey with Zonta in the middle.....mika cut across Zonta but still called the greatest move ever and no protests

[BDunnell]

FYI I was watching F1 when Lewy was playing in the sand box, with his "balls".
And I never watched F1 for crashes.

We're obviously not talking about crashes, but the racing. I'd like to think that no-one on here likes to see crashes, unless you think otherwise.

By the way, do you have any idea what I was referring to when I mentioned Dijon in 1979 earlier?

[dwf1]

What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? :confused:

you were stating you give room on the roads

[BDunnell]

Mika and Schuey with Zonta in the middle.....mika cut across Zonta but still called the greatest move ever and no protests

Yes, that could also have been incredibly dangerous, but I'm glad it happened because it was fantastic. I fail to see what the difference is.

[dwf1]

FYI I was watching F1 when Lewy was playing in the sand box, with his "balls".
And I never watched F1 for crashes.

Then Dijon 79??? I don't watch for crashes...i watch for great racing

[ioan]

We're obviously not talking about crashes, but the racing. I'd like to think that no-one on here likes to see crashes, unless you think otherwise.

Judging from some of the posts around here, some would revel from seeing an off at high speed.


By the way, do you have any idea what I was referring to when I mentioned Dijon in 1979 earlier?

The drivers involved in that battle never pushed each other out of the track into the wet grass at speeds approaching 300 kph.

[dwf1]

Yes, that could also have been incredibly dangerous, but I'm glad it happened because it was fantastic. I fail to see what the difference is.

I forgot when Kimi took the lead off fisi on the final lap in japan a few years back.....they moved right across the track and almost went off....thats the same!

[ioan]

I agree. Ban them all. Let us start with those talking heads. Esp those on Speed TV and ITV. Obviously playing favorites and repeating opinions based solely upon who they like. Poor David Hobbes was about to have a cow when a mention of Spa would come up, and then suddenly say: "Well, I better not say anything for fear I will get in trouble.....'

Chop their heads off. And while at it, let us chop off all those fingers off all those posters that do not agree with you. After all, it is okay to have opinions consistent with yours, but not okay to be contrary, because we all know those who disagree, do it for reasons such as blind loyalty to their team or driver.....
Chop chop chop.

;)

[dwf1]

Judging from some of the posts around here, some would revel from seeing an off at high speed.



The drivers involved in that battle never pushed each other out of the track into the wet grass at speeds approaching 300 kph.

no it was on to dust and sand which is just as easy to spin on!!

[Daniel]

One could equally apply that logic to Massa's early pit release at Valenia - y'know, the one judged to be unsafe but left un-punished as no harm resulted.

"Pushing your luck" is how you rise to the top. Staying just about the right side of the line between being ruthless and being dangerous.

Oh I agree and nowhere have I said there should be a penalty for Lewis for this. But he needs to be told that simply chopping a driver like that under braking isn't the right thing to do. Just as Ferrari were given a fine because although Massa's release wasn't dangerous it sure wasn't what you like to see in F1. Just like I don't like to see Webber constantly taken out by McLaren drivers who are either being overly ambitious (Heikki last week) or being borderline dangerous this week (Hamilton)

Pushing you luck might be about rising to the top but that's not how Brundle was saying it ;) 141 minutes on your Sky+ recording and you'll see what I mean :)

I like a good hard race and a bit of paint swapping is great in a touring car race but this sort of thing makes me think Lewis is a few sandwiches short of a picnic rather than that he is a great driver who knows his limits and knows how to defend and overtake cleanly.

[Daniel]

you were stating you give room on the roads

What does this have to do with the price of eggs in China or more to the point.....












THIS THREAD

[ioan]

no it was on to dust and sand which is just as easy to spin on!!

Really? I only saw one of them going straight over the white line, without being pushed by the other in the same time. :rolleyes:

I'm finding it hilarious how people are trying to defend such stupid moves as Hammy did today, and put it down to racing.

[BDunnell]

Judging from some of the posts around here, some would revel from seeing an off at high speed.

Who, exactly? I hope you're not referring to me. If you are, you are simply wrong.



The drivers involved in that battle never pushed each other out of the track into the wet grass at speeds approaching 300 kph.

No, but what makes that more dangerous than coming from miles back with locked brakes to dive up the inside, or banging wheels through a sequence of corners, something which could very easily launch a car into the air? Or is your definition of what's dangerous and unacceptable solely based on whether it's something Hamilton has just done?

[Viktory]

Oh I agree and nowhere have I said there should be a penalty for Lewis for this. But he needs to be told that simply chopping a driver like that under braking isn't the right thing to do. Just as Ferrari were given a fine because although Massa's release wasn't dangerous it sure wasn't what you like to see in F1. Just like I don't like to see Webber constantly taken out by McLaren drivers who are either being overly ambitious (Heikki last week) or being borderline dangerous this week (Hamilton)

Pushing you luck might be about rising to the top but that's not how Brundle was saying it ;) 141 minutes on your Sky+ recording and you'll see what I mean :)

I like a good hard race and a bit of paint swapping is great in a touring car race but this sort of thing makes me think Lewis is a few sandwiches short of a picnic rather than that he is a great driver who knows his limits and knows how to defend and overtake cleanly.

great post :up:

[dwf1]

you really must be that stupid.....read back....i metioned road driving!!!!!!! as you don't know what coventry is never mind where it is!!

[dwf1]

Really? I only saw one of them going straight over the white line, without being pushed by the other in the same time. :rolleyes:

I'm finding it hilarious how people are trying to defend such stupid moves as Hammy did today, and put it down to racing.

only saw one of who??? Villeneuve and Rene were all over the place in that race and hit a few times.....

[ioan]

Who, exactly? I hope you're not referring to me. If you are, you are simply wrong.

Stop taking everything so personally. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

you really must be that stupid.....read back....i metioned road driving!!!!!!! as you don't know what coventry is never mind where it is!!

Bad language, personal attack towards a fellow forum member! Reported to the mods.

[Daniel]

I'm surprised nobody has blamed Hamilton for the Hurricane in America - after all, everything is his fault.......

Please mate.... you're starting to sound like Ste898. Why can't he just drive like the rest of the people who throughout the race drove VERY cleanly with a few exceptions.

[pino]

dirty racing because he is dirty?:P

Not funny at all :down: and while I am here, I will let you know that I don't like most of your posts...so change your attitude or I will do that for you...

[dwf1]

Bad language, personal attack towards a fellow forum member! Reported to the mods.

Ioan you really are too easy to wind up!!!!

[BDunnell]

Stop taking everything so personally. :rolleyes:

Gladly, but I am still interested as to the forum members to whom you are referring. I can't think of anyone on here who seems to relish accidents, but if this is your interpretation, then so be it.

[BDunnell]

Not funny at all :down: and while I am here, I will let you know that I don't like most of your posts...so change your attitude or I will do that for you...

Well said indeed.

[Daniel]

you really must be that stupid.....read back....i metioned road driving!!!!!!! as you don't know what coventry is never mind where it is!!

:rotflmao: If you can't make a good point then insult your opposition. Good try mate :)

I do in fact know what and where Coventry is. I've actually stayed in Coventry unless you're talking about some other Coventry other than the one I stayed in which had the crap bombed out of it in WW2?

[dwf1]

:rotflmao: If you can't make a good point then insult your opposition. Good try mate :)

I do in fact know what and where Coventry is. I've actually stayed in Coventry unless you're talking about some other Coventry other than the one I stayed in which had the crap bombed out of it in WW2?

cool glad you know it. its quite nice when not on the roads there

[BDunnell]

:rotflmao: If you can't make a good point then insult your opposition. Good try mate :)

I do in fact know what and where Coventry is. I've actually stayed in Coventry unless you're talking about some other Coventry other than the one I stayed in which had the crap bombed out of it in WW2?

And, more importantly in the context of these forums, the former home of Coventry Climax — now rather forgotten in the F1 pantheon.

[ioan]

Ioan you really are too easy to wind up!!!!

Me? Should I get offended because you insulted someone else? Nah, I just don't like rude people. :laugh:

[truefan72]

Not funny at all :down: and while I am here, I will let you know that I don't like most of your posts...so change your attitude or I will do that for you...

:up:

yawn another Hamilton bashing thread
predictable.

1. bash Hamilton, feign outrage
2. attack those not sharing the same pov
3. then complain about being insulted by those people
4. then get into semantics about the issue
5. thread becomes yet another pointless exercise at trying to reason.

[dwf1]

but being rude towards Lewis is allowed is it?

[BDunnell]

Me? Should I get offended because you insulted someone else? Nah, I just don't like rude people. :laugh:

Is it not rude to accuse someone of having no brains and being stupid, then? Or is that actually an ancient courtesy that I've misinterpreted as rude all my life?

[dwf1]

:up:

yawn another Hamilton bashing thread

like everything is nowadays

[yodasarmpit]

I just don't like rude people. :laugh: Self loathing is a bad thing, you should really go and see someone about that. ;)

[ioan]

but being rude towards Lewis is allowed is it?

Is he a member of this thread? Didn't know it. Hey Lewy, where are thou hiding?! :D

[ioan]

Is it not rude to accuse someone of having no brains and being stupid, then?

Stating the truth never was an insult.

[dwf1]

You said you don't like rude people so you must not like yourself

[dwf1]

You have been rude towards lewis on here

[Daniel]

:up:

yawn another Hamilton bashing thread

Yawn.... another thread where people don't like what Hamilton does and want to discuss it and someone comes on here whinging about Hamilton bashing. How long till you play the race card? Really! How long till someone comes on here and says it's cos he iz black!


but being rude towards Lewis is allowed is it?

I'll be honest. If Lewis was on this forum I would perhaps not be so rude in some of the ways I talk about him. I think that's common courtesy. But Lewis is not here and is paid millions of pounds so I suspect me saying that Lewis isn't the smartest will roll straight off his back if someone were to tell him of all the horrible horrible things I say about him :)

[BDunnell]

Is he a member of this thread? Didn't know it. Hey Lewy, where are thou hiding?! :D

So people should be treated differently depending on whether you are speaking directly to them or not, should they? I think that is extremely rude.

[dwf1]

i'm going to work.....get more sense of drunks!!! (i work behind a bar)

[Daniel]

dwf1... if you want to talk about Ioan then start a thread about him! This thread is to talk about Hamilton and how some may perceive his move on Webber as being a bit off.....

[BDunnell]

Stating the truth never was an insult.

For one thing, it is your opinion, not the truth. Secondly, I very much doubt whether it is actually literally true that Lewis Hamilton has no brain.

This is really getting silly now.

[Daniel]

So people should be treated differently depending on whether you are speaking directly to them or not, should they? I think that is extremely rude.
Where does one draw the line? At what point between Dubya and Lewis does it become acceptable to be rude about someone when they're not about? :)

[Daniel]

For one thing, it is your opinion, not the truth. Secondly, I very much doubt whether it is actually literally true that Lewis Hamilton has no brain.

This is really getting silly now.
You have no proof of this! I want facts! Prove to me that Lewis has a brain otherwise it's just heresay from the Lewis zealots :p

[ioan]

You have been rude towards lewis on here

You better go tell him, I bet he'll appreciate it! :rotflmao:

[BDunnell]

Where does one draw the line? At what point between Dubya and Lewis does it become acceptable to be rude about someone when they're not about? :)

I don't think there's a line to be drawn.

[ioan]

So people should be treated differently depending on whether you are speaking directly to them or not, should they? I think that is extremely rude.

Each to his own, I guess.

You can be as rude as you want about me in another forum or talking to your friends. I couldn't care any less.

We have to try to respect each other on this board however, because we are a social group and making fun of or being rude with someone in front of the whole forum is something that might hurt one's sentiments.

At least this is my take on it.

[Daniel]

Each to his own, I guess.

You can be as rude as you want about me in another forum or talking to your friends. I couldn't care any less.

We have to try to respect each other on this board however, because we are a social group and making fun of or being rude with someone in front of the whole forum is something that might hurt one's sentiments.

At least this is my take on it.

I agree. People are always going to talk about other people behind their back. Now if Lewis was here I would perhaps say "You need to think more about what you're doing because in the end while your driving skill could win the title for you, your head is going to lose it for you just like it did last season" but since he's not here I'll just say that he's been a bit "stupid"



I don't think there's a line to be drawn.

I don't get that. Are you saying we should all be perfect and never utter a word of negativity about another human being? :p

I do think that it just so happens that the issues which people identify with regards to Lewis tend to be to do with his attitude and the decisions he makes and are perhaps deemed as more personal than remarks about someone's driving skill. I mean I called Kimi the Donkey of the race last week and no one say "What a horrible thing to say!?!?!?!?!?!" but as soon as you go talking about Lewis' attitude or the decisions he makes you're being rude :)

Last week Kimi ran out of skill. Last week Lewis ran out of the ability to make the right decisisions and I feel he did so to a lesser extent today. It's really as simple as that and nothing malicious or personal.

[jens]

Bah, the biggest shame is that after great races we always find something to complain about. ;)

I personally don't think that Webber-Hamilton collision was entirely LH's fault, more likely it was 50-50. Lewis was ahead and Webber attempted a very late overtaking manouver round the outside to try to get alongside him. I think it was obvious it wasn't going to work.

The Glock incident was a bit dangerous, I think he (Lewis) should have left more room, but on the other hand we must take into account that the race was held in wet conditions and the visibility was poor, so maybe Hamilton didn't see that Glock wasn't completely behind him. But yeah - I agree LH should have been more careful here, because at worst scenario - without Glock's fantastic reactions in the wet - his race would have ended right there.

The most suspicious thing for me was Hamilton's aggressiveness over the kerbs as he took them (especially in the second chicane) with all 4 wheels off the racing track. But obviously on this circuit this is not a serious issue and was at times done by others too.

[ioan]

Bah, the biggest shame is that after great races we always find something to complain about. ;)

I personally don't think that Webber-Hamilton collision was entirely LH's fault, more likely it was 50-50. Lewis was ahead and Webber attempted a very late overtaking manouver round the outside to try to get alongside him. I think it was obvious it wasn't going to work.

That doesn't change the fact that Hamilton was the one wo changed direction and touched Webber's car.

[Tonieke]

Now if Lewis was here

what makes you so sure he isn't ?

[Tonieke]

That doesn't change the fact that Hamilton was the one wo changed direction and touched Webber's car.

I agree Ioan...he did cange directions..But let me see....last week for something similar it was said the driver on the outside should back off as the leading car is allowed to take the racing line...and therefore not need to leave space for the car besides him.....You agree there 2 Ioan ?

[BDunnell]

Each to his own, I guess.

You can be as rude as you want about me in another forum or talking to your friends. I couldn't care any less.

Personally, I wouldn't do that either, because it's unnecessary. Whenever I get a PM from someone saying something like 'God, wasn't (x) being a **** in that thread?', I always ignore it as far as possible because it really isn't important. I will always give my opinion, though, and if there's someone whose views I disagree with regularly, that won't hold me back.

[BDunnell]

We have to try to respect each other on this board however, because we are a social group and making fun of or being rude with someone in front of the whole forum is something that might hurt one's sentiments.

On this point, I respect more the views of people who don't always toe one particular line to the detriment of original thought. The posts of jens, for instance, are a very good example.

[ioan]

Personally, I wouldn't do that either, because it's unnecessary. Whenever I get a PM from someone saying something like 'God, wasn't (x) being a **** in that thread?', I always ignore it as far as possible because it really isn't important. I will always give my opinion, though, and if there's someone whose views I disagree with regularly, that won't hold me back.

I still say that you are free to say whatever you want about me in any other place. You can do it even here if you have the urge to do it, but it won't end pleasant at all.

I gave up answering to every personal attack, I keep it civilized and just report them to the mods and they will deal with it.

[ioan]

On this point, I respect more the views of people who don't always toe one particular line to the detriment of original thought. The posts of jens, for instance, are a very good example.

I didn't ask for your respect, and you can keep it all for yourself as far as I care. Just don't be disrespectful, like in this very last post.

[Daniel]

Personally, I wouldn't do that either, because it's unnecessary. Whenever I get a PM from someone saying something like 'God, wasn't (x) being a **** in that thread?', I always ignore it as far as possible because it really isn't important. I will always give my opinion, though, and if there's someone whose views I disagree with regularly, that won't hold me back.

Fair enough :up: At least you practice what you preach :up:

[BDunnell]

I didn't ask for your respect, and you can keep it all for yourself as far as I care. Just don't be disrespectful, like in this very last post.

I can only apologise for any offence caused.

[ioan]

I can only apologise for any offence caused.

This is why we should not offend each other around here. All we can do afterward is apologize, but that won't change the bad sentiments.

As for your last post, I was just pushing you a bit, no hard feelings.

[BDunnell]

This is why we should not offend each other around here. All we can do afterward is apologize, but that won't change the bad sentiments.

As for your last post, I was just pushing you a bit, no hard feelings.

Thank you ioan.

[ioan]

Good to see that we can ultimately act like adults.

Back to Hammy's on track behavior now.

[BDunnell]

Good to see that we can ultimately act like adults.

Back to Hammy's on track behavior now.

Yes, and I still disagree with you about it!

[ioan]

Yes, and I still disagree with you about it!

Same here, so I can understand that.

[Mickey T]

for me, the webber one was touch and go.

mark was a little optimistic, but had good grip and was on a tear. hamilton didn't just change his line, but he turned in way late, too, so when mark tried to take the normal second lane line, it was full of mclaren.

that said, hamilton did leave mark room (just, but that's all you really need) and didn't push him onto the grass.

i was perturbed by the glock incident, though. in fast corners, especially, you simply should leave the guy on the outside enough room to stay alive.

you cannot just push people onto the grass like that and it is a testament to glock's skill that he continued.

i thought hamilton was aggressive today and, in short, agree that the webbo incident was marginal-ok, but he was out of order in his move across glock's nose.

[Daniel]

for me, the webber one was touch and go.

mark was a little optimistic, but had good grip and was on a tear. hamilton didn't just change his line, but he turned in way late, too, so when mark tried to take the normal second lane line, it was full of mclaren.

that said, hamilton did leave mark room (just, but that's all you really need) and didn't push him onto the grass.

i was perturbed by the glock incident, though. in fast corners, especially, you simply should leave the guy on the outside enough room to stay alive.

you cannot just push people onto the grass like that and it is a testament to glock's skill that he continued.

i thought hamilton was aggressive today and, in short, agree that the webbo incident was marginal-ok, but he was out of order in his move across glock's nose.

If the Glock incident was intentional then I agree but I do think Lewis should have the benefit of the doubt because there was a lot of spray then.

[MJW]

Schumacher and Senna were also aggressive - that's racing these days, partly due to the Schumacher influence, its hard, the toughest win. Hamilton raced hard, very hard against competitors thats what it takes. If you dont like it quit, there are other sports. I am not agreeing with this style but Schumacher developed it and Hamilton is following in what became the style it takes to win. It not a "nice way" but winners are not nice guys, except Vettel.

[BDunnell]

If the Glock incident was intentional then I agree but I do think Lewis should have the benefit of the doubt because there was a lot of spray then.

And, in any case, these things happen. I can't reiterate the point strongly enough, but I fail to see the difference between any of these 'incidents' in the wet and making very difficult, risky passing moves at corners where contact could have major consequences. The line between such a move looking fantastic and being extremely foolhardy is a very fine one, but I'm glad that F1 drivers still take the chance. This is totally different from revelling in accidents or deaths, or even being overly excited by the concept of risk.

[BDunnell]

Schumacher and Senna were also aggressive - that's racing these days, partly due to the Schumacher influence, its hard, the toughest win. Hamilton raced hard, very hard against competitors thats what it takes. If you dont like it quit, there are other sports. I am not agreeing with this style but Schumacher developed it and Hamilton is following in what became the style it takes to win.

For some reason, we seem to have ignored Senna and focused on Schumacher in all these discussions of 'hard-v-stupid' racing, but I think you're absolutely right — with one exception, namely the idea that this is anything new. Farina, for instance, was known as a ruthless racer by his peers 60-odd years ago.


It not a "nice way" but winners are not nice guys, except Vettel.

We've covered this in another thread, and many of us have concluded that this idea isn't true. Many mention Barrichello in this context, too.

[MJW]

For some reason, we seem to have ignored Senna and focused on Schumacher in all these discussions of 'hard-v-stupid' racing, but I think you're absolutely right — with one exception, namely the idea that this is anything new. Farina, for instance, was known as a ruthless racer by his peers 60-odd years ago.



We've covered this in another thread, and many of us have concluded that this idea isn't true. Many mention Barrichello in this context, too.
I didnt look at the other thread I am a rallyman and only watch F1 when there is no WRC or Moto GP.

[Daniel]

Thing is you just can't push a driver off intentionally at such high speed. Imo if someone died from an incident like that the driver causing the accident through choice should face criminal charges. The move with Webber could have caused an accident but the chances of serious injury were virtually nil. Had Sutil gone off there without a front wing god only knows what would have happened. Yes this is sport but this isn't your playstation where you can press reset. Sure accidents happen but is it an accident when you do it on purpose?

[Jag_Warrior]

http://cornerstork.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/crying_baby.jpg

+1

:s mokin:

[BDunnell]

Thing is you just can't push a driver off intentionally at such high speed. Imo if someone died from an incident like that the driver causing the accident through choice should face criminal charges. The move with Webber could have caused an accident but the chances of serious injury were virtually nil. Had Sutil gone off there without a front wing god only knows what would have happened. Yes this is sport but this isn't your playstation where you can press reset. Sure accidents happen but is it an accident when you do it on purpose?

But generally drivers don't do much more deliberately than force people off line, and sometimes squeeze them out onto the grass, for the risk of damaging your own car and ruining your race, or being penalised by the stewards, is too great and not worth taking. This, after all, is why Senna punting Prost off deliberately at Suzuka in 1990 was and remains so shocking, because it was a deliberate, premeditated act. I'm always prepared to give drivers, no matter who they are, the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances unless there's very good reason to suggest otherwise. I'm not suggesting they're all saints, just that they ought to be given a bit more leeway on occasions.

[Daniel]

But generally drivers don't do much more deliberately than force people off line, and sometimes squeeze them out onto the grass, for the risk of damaging your own car and ruining your race, or being penalised by the stewards, is too great and not worth taking. This, after all, is why Senna punting Prost off deliberately at Suzuka in 1990 was and remains so shocking, because it was a deliberate, premeditated act. I'm always prepared to give drivers, no matter who they are, the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances unless there's very good reason to suggest otherwise. I'm not suggesting they're all saints, just that they ought to be given a bit more leeway on occasions.

Like I said I give Lewis the benefit of the doubt on this occasion because of the conditions with the Sutil incident. But the Webber incident didn't look good though.

[truefan72]

It not a "nice way" but winners are not nice guys, except Vettel.

I am sure that Schumacher sounded very pleasant and a breath of fresh air when he won his first GP. In fact I do remember it and how many loved his exuberance stating that it was really nice to see someone loving the moment and appreciating the win rather than the semi-jaded/reserved responses from other winners at the time. He was young, he was new, he came out of noewhere and said all the right things.

I like Vettel but declaring him the epitome of winners sportsmanship after his first win isn't really an honest assesment is it. Let's see how he would act after multiple wins, in contention for the WDC, batteling it out with his fellow drivers, who he would now consider on par in the talent and results department and you might hear a more expectant tone in his comments ala victories, podiums, missed opportunities, drivers noet yielding, etc.

[BDunnell]

I like Vettel but declaring him the epitome of winners sportsmanship after his first win isn't really an honest assesment is it. Let's see how he would act after multiple wins, in contention for the WDC, batteling it out with his fellow drivers, who he would now consider on par in the talent and results department and you might hear a more expectant tone in his comments ala victories, podiums, missed opportunities, drivers noet yielding, etc.

I couldn't agree more.

[ioan]

I like Vettel but declaring him the epitome of winners sportsmanship after his first win isn't really an honest assesment is it. Let's see how he would act after multiple wins, in contention for the WDC, batteling it out with his fellow drivers, who he would now consider on par in the talent and results department and you might hear a more expectant tone in his comments ala victories, podiums, missed opportunities, drivers noet yielding, etc.

As long as he doesn't start comparing himself with M.Schumacher and A.Senna it will be fine by me, and I think he will not go down that road, he's got too much class!

[Tonieke]

As long as he doesn't start comparing himself with M.Schumacher and A.Senna it will be fine by me, and I think he will not go down that road, he's got too much class!

I think that's exactly your prob wit Lewis ioan...him...at this young age already being so successful..there might come a day you have to change your signature here on the forum..."Michael Schumacher The Best Ever F1 Driver" ;-))

[ioan]

I think that's exactly your prob wit Lewis ioan...him...at this young age already being so successful..there might come a day you have to change your signature here on the forum..."Michael Schumacher The Best Ever F1 Driver" ;-))

I was talking about Vettel, not about Lewis. :rolleyes:

As for my sig, I think it will outlive F1. :D

[CNR]

all i can say is lew-ser is lucky they do not have the same rules in f1
WHY ARE THERE NO RACING ROOM RULE

if this was v8's lewis would have been given a drive through penalty

[aryan]

It's called racing. Get over it.

His tactics did remind me of a certain MS though. Interesting considering that all people calling for Hamilton's head today, used to think the same tactics used by their favourite driver was the best thing since sliced bread.

He is an aggressive racer. Fair enough. So was Schumacher. So was Senna. I am not saying he is as great as any one of them (he needs to win a couple of championships before I say that). I am merely pointing out the similarity in tactics.

Personally, I don't know if he knew Glock was there, and I reckon he should have given Webber a couple of inches more space, but as I said, it's called motor racing.

[pino]

I honestly enjoyed Lewis performance yesterday :up: He did nothing wrong and once again showed what a great talent is...a bit arrogant but still a great talent !

[ShiftingGears]

Should've got a warning for that Webber incident.

[leopard]

No, stewards are afraid of petition. ;)

I thought that kind of racing only exist in film, two cars nearly side by side, one of them trying to collide to finish the opponent off.

[wmcot]

I didn't really see anything in the race today that hasn't been done by others in the past. If we look at every potentially dangerous move, we'll have stewards reviewing the tapes of every race for any possible move that could have caused an accident. The winners can be announced over the Christmas Holidays and we can crown the WDC in February.

I'm not a Lewis fan, but if you don't want to see aggression on track, then maybe you should stick to watching races of historic cars where the owner/drivers are too afraid of ruining their paint job to even try to overtake. (I went yesterday to exactly that type of "racing" and I was bored to tears.)

[Tonieke]

No, stewards are afraid of petition. ;)

I thought that kind of racing only exist in film, two cars nearly side by side, one of them trying to collide to finish the opponent off.

nah not just in films..It happened before and it will happen again....check vid from a couple of years ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gql16hizyY

[leopard]

nah not just in films..It happened before and it will happen again....check vid from a couple of years ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gql16hizyY
Amazing race, there is only one way to solve out friction between both of them, give both of them the same red car,

[SGWilko]

Yawn - same 5h!t, different thread.

When that charisma bypass clinic opens, there will be a hell of a queue.... ;)

[PolePosition_1]

I agree :up:

The problem is that many on these forums, for years, have even called MS a criminal for moves like that. I think that's the reason why this thread exists. It would be nice to see that people calling LH a criminal, too ;) :D

Thats the thing, I don't think people called Schumacher a criminal for moves like Lewis did yesterday.

They called Schumacher a criminal for his unsporting moves. I didn't see anything unsporting from Lewis yesterday.

[PolePosition_1]

Or even easier, the drivers should stick to some of the driving ethic, at least those who ever knew what that is, and I'm sure at least one of them never heard about this concept before.
If the only way he can pass is by bullying others of the track with very dangerous moves, than he better go to a destruction derby, and take DC with him too.

I cannot believe this post is coming from someone who has a signature stating Michael Schumacher is the best.

Surely what we saw yesterday was symmetry to Schumachers aggressive driving style. As a Schumacher fan, surely you'd appreciate what we saw from Hamilton yesterday if you viewed it unbiasedly.

If Hamilton was a Ferrari boy, would you feel the same way? If not, did you not like the aggressive style of Schmachers?

[MrJan]

Yawn.

No worse than anything Scumacher ever did, just aggressive racing and the sort of thing we need in the sport. Try watching the Arnoux/Villeneuve battle at Dijon and tell me A) That it's any different from Hamilton and B) That it was overly dangerous.

People spend ages moaning that there is no overtaking and when you finally get a driver who has the stones and people start bitching.

[PolePosition_1]

Pushing Glock on the grass at more 250 kph was even worse and the outcome could have been catastrophic.
But hey, this is what you get with a driver that thinks with his balls, cause he got no brain.

Do you think Schumacher was therefore wrong to force Alonso onto the grass at Silverstone a few years back?

[Knock-on]

Good agressive driving.

Did he do anything wrong or are some people upset that he raced from 15th to 7th.

I find it amazing that the ones that saw nothing wrong with Kimi slamming the door at the last GP and forcing Lewis off track are the ones that are bitching here :laugh:

[MrJan]

I find it amazing that the ones that saw nothing wrong with Kimi slamming the door at the last GP and forcing Lewis off track are the ones that are bitching here :laugh:

Really?!!!! I fully expected it :D ;)

[SGWilko]

Good agressive driving.

Did he do anything wrong or are some people upset that he raced from 15th to 7th.

I find it amazing that the ones that saw nothing wrong with Kimi slamming the door at the last GP and forcing Lewis off track are the ones that are bitching here :laugh:

Sadly I am not suprised. Some on here have more faces than Big Ben. (yes, I know that is the name of the bell, and not the clock, but you know what I mean....) :down:

[Daniel]

Good agressive driving.

Did he do anything wrong or are some people upset that he raced from 15th to 7th.

I find it amazing that the ones that saw nothing wrong with Kimi slamming the door at the last GP and forcing Lewis off track are the ones that are bitching here :laugh:
Come on Kimi didn't move off line to push Lewis off.

[SGWilko]

Come on Kimi didn't move off line to push Lewis off.

Lewis took the line he was consistently taking on that curve. You should have gone to Specsavers...... :p :

[MrJan]

Lewis took the line he was consistently taking on that curve. You should have gone to Specsavers...... :p :

:up: Yup, thought it a weird line but he was in fact taking that line out of the first chicane on most laps and probably hadn't realised that the Toyota was right there.

The Webber move was aggressive but everyone in the paddock knows that Lewis will always race hard so should expect a bit of bumping if they decide to fight.

[ioan]

Lewis took the line he was consistently taking on that curve. You should have gone to Specsavers...... :p :

What curve :?: He pushed Glock on the grass while driving on the front straight!

[Knock-on]

Come on Kimi didn't move off line to push Lewis off.
Did Lewis?

Link please.

[SGWilko]

What curve :?: He pushed Glock on the grass while driving on the front straight!

I thought this happened after the first chicane after the start/finish straight. I am sure that piece of the track curves gently to the right.

Perhaps I need thicker specs? ;)

[ioan]

His pass on the Toyota Happened on the front straight, apologies if it wasn't the case, but that's what I saw in the endless replays.

[PolePosition_1]

I thought this happened after the first chicane after the start/finish straight. I am sure that piece of the track curves gently to the right.

Perhaps I need thicker specs? ;)

Nah, you are correct, it was exiting the second chicane where there is a curve.

If you disagree with it thats fair enough, your against aggressive driving, and you have a case, but personally I'm just shocked to see Schumacher fans having such a huge go when Schumacher did exactly the same to Alonso at Silverstone not so long ago, only different was that it was a completely straight line into Stowe.

[SGWilko]

Nah, you are correct,

Thank gawd for that, I only changed me bins a few months back! ;)

[Knock-on]

Nah, you are correct, it was exiting the second chicane where there is a curve.

If you disagree with it thats fair enough, your against aggressive driving, and you have a case, but personally I'm just shocked to see Schumacher fans having such a huge go when Schumacher did exactly the same to Alonso at Silverstone not so long ago, only different was that it was a completely straight line into Stowe.

I suppose it all depends if you're objective or hypocritical. :D

[Daniel]

Did Lewis?

Link please.
*sigh* Stop with this link crap. You know the coverage gets pulled off Youtube wherever possible..........

[Tonieke]

Nah, you are correct, it was exiting the second chicane where there is a curve.

If you disagree with it thats fair enough, your against aggressive driving, and you have a case, but personally I'm just shocked to see Schumacher fans having such a huge go when Schumacher did exactly the same to Alonso at Silverstone not so long ago, only different was that it was a completely straight line into Stowe.

little correction Pole..it was after exciting the first chicane..but still a curve to the right..no straight ! ;-)

[Tonieke]

here ya go...and not sure what he did wrong there even viewing it from Glocks point of view...Lewis is folowing exactly the same line as the car in front of him !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr84NX_mUVg

[wedge]

Saw nothing wrong with Lewis probably apart from banging into Alonso but it's aggressive racing at its best.

:up:

Either some fans prefer F1 being a procession or looking for any excuse to bash Lewis.

[PolePosition_1]

I suppose it all depends if you're objective or hypocritical. :D

Haha, I'm afraid your right.

I post regularly on the Facebook F1 Group too, and exactly the same topic was started. However its evolved slightly differently.

Where some are arguing if you disliked Schumacher but support Hamilton, you must automatically be a hypocrite.

I strongly disagree with this, because it all depends on why you disliked Schumacher. If you disliked him for being arrogant or an aggresive racer, thats fair enough, its slightly hypocritical.

But personally, I dislike Hamilton, because I'm an Alonso fan. But I respect Hamilton as a huge talent, and sportingly. While I respect Schumachers talent, I didn't respect him from a sporting aspect. So I don't see myself as being a hypocrite in respecting Hamilton on a sporting aspect and not respecting Schumacher on sporting aspect. Because I haven't seen Hamilton do anything totally unsporting yet :)

[PolePosition_1]

little correction Pole..it was after exciting the first chicane..but still a curve to the right..no straight ! ;-)

Haha indeed your right, in my head I still see the layout to when it was 2 chicanes before the curve.

We're still thinking of same piece of track - but thanks for reminder :)

[Mickey T]

here ya go...and not sure what he did wrong there even viewing it from Glocks point of view...Lewis is folowing exactly the same line as the car in front of him !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr84NX_mUVg

it doesn't matter if he was following the same line as the car in front, because the car in front didn't have another driver alongside it.

one of the basic tenets of motor racing and racecraft is that you should not - especially in faster corners - simply drive your opponent off the road.

you should, wherever possible, push them onto a slower line, but you should always leave them a piece of road to drive on.

from looking out of glock's car, it looks to me as though hamilton thought he'd done the job on the toyota and it was gone. i doubt he even knew it was there, so it's reckless, not malicious.

[ShiftingGears]

His pass on the Toyota Happened on the front straight, apologies if it wasn't the case, but that's what I saw in the endless replays.

You might be thinking of his blocking of Webber. Forcing Glock on the grass was between the chicane and Curva Grande.

[Tonieke]

Haha indeed your right, in my head I still see the layout to when it was 2 chicanes before the curve.

We're still thinking of same piece of track - but thanks for reminder :)

yep ;-) ioan must have seen another race ! ;-)

[Mickey T]

yep ;-) ioan must have seen another race ! ;-)

probably.

he often seems to see another race!

[tinchote]

Thats the thing, I don't think people called Schumacher a criminal for moves like Lewis did yesterday.

They called Schumacher a criminal for his unsporting moves. I didn't see anything unsporting from Lewis yesterday.

I saw MS called a criminal on these forums for allegedly pushing Alonso to the grass at Silverstone in 03. I would pull the thread up for you, but unfortunately because of some glitch in the past, there seems is almost nothing from before 05 in the archive.

My complaint is not about LH's moves. When MS was pulling similar moves, he was called lots of non-nice things on these forums. These forumers would not take the argument that being aggressive is part of what racing is. But now that LH is doing the same, they are all for it. I find it hypocritical.

[Knock-on]

*sigh* Stop with this link crap. You know the coverage gets pulled off Youtube wherever possible..........

Well, thanks to Tonike, we can all have a butchers now ;)

Lewis was in front and moved across to take his line. Timo's front was level with Lewis's rear and he was on the outside of the curve.

What does he expect? For Lewis to give up the racing line in favour of someone that's behind him :laugh:

Remember Spa when Lewis was infront on the first part of the chicane before Kimi came across and forced him off track on the 2nd part.

Remember that?

I pointed out that although the rules prohibit that sort of move, I personally didn't see anything wrong with that move yet you think we should have a go at a driver that's infront, faster and just using the normal line?

You're having a laugh :D

[Tonieke]

I saw MS called a criminal on these forums for allegedly pushing Alonso to the grass at Silverstone in 03. I would pull the thread up for you, but unfortunately because of some glitch in the past, there seems is almost nothing from before 05 in the archive.

My complaint is not about LH's moves. When MS was pulling similar moves, he was called lots of non-nice things on these forums. These forumers would not take the argument that being aggressive is part of what racing is. But now that LH is doing the same, they are all for it. It's hypocritical, and it annoys me.

it goes both ways...

[Daniel]

I saw MS called a criminal on these forums for allegedly pushing Alonso to the grass at Silverstone in 03. I would pull the thread up for you, but unfortunately because of some glitch in the past, there seems is almost nothing from before 05 in the archive.

My complaint is not about LH's moves. When MS was pulling similar moves, he was called lots of non-nice things on these forums. These forumers would not take the argument that being aggressive is part of what racing is. But now that LH is doing the same, they are all for it. It's hypocritical, and it annoys me.

Yup. I just want to see good clean racing. Wheel banging is always going to happen but there shouldn't be needless wheel banging. If someone bangs someone else and breaks their car in the process I kind of think that's justice but when you bang someone else and your car continues on fine there should be some kind of warning or penalty issued if the move is considered avoidable. Last week Kova was penalised for what he did to Webber which was completely right IMHO. I just think that what Lewis did was sailing a bit close to the wind and even Brundle repeatedly said the same thing during the GP. A warning is the worst he should get and no more than that.

[Daniel]

Well, thanks to Tonike, we can all have a butchers now ;)

Lewis was in front and moved across to take his line. Timo's front was level with Lewis's rear and he was on the outside of the curve.

What does he expect? For Lewis to give up the racing line in favour of someone that's behind him :laugh:

Remember Spa when Lewis was infront on the first part of the chicane before Kimi came across and forced him off track on the 2nd part.

Remember that?

I pointed out that although the rules prohibit that sort of move, I personally didn't see anything wrong with that move yet you think we should have a go at a driver that's infront, faster and just using the normal line?

You're having a laugh :D

Oh for gods sake stop reading what you want in my posts. I have constantly maintained that Lewis should be given the benefit of the doubt with regards to the Glock incident as there was a crapload of spray.

What I was talking about was the incident with Webber where Hamilton moved off line in what was a rather clumsy move and whacked Webber. You can say what you want about it but it's not smart to risk broken suspension so needlessly if you're fighting for the title.

[Tonieke]

Yup. I just want to see good clean racing. Wheel banging is always going to happen but there shouldn't be needless wheel banging. If someone bangs someone else and breaks their car in the process I kind of think that's justice but when you bang someone else and your car continues on fine there should be some kind of warning or penalty issued if the move is considered avoidable. Last week Kova was penalised for what he did to Webber which was completely right IMHO. I just think that what Lewis did was sailing a bit close to the wind and even Brundle repeatedly said the same thing during the GP. A warning is the worst he should get and no more than that.

I see the situation with Webber exactly the same as with the chicane incident in Spa....webber was trying a move on the outside..just like Lewis did in Spa..But back than Lewis should just have backed of or waited another corner to make the move...because lewis was over enthusiastic to make a pass attempt at that spot and after all Kimi was in the lead so he could pick his line...Just don't get it why the same people who said this back than now see things differently....

[tinchote]

it goes both ways...

Of course.

[Daniel]

I see the situation with Webber exactly the same as with the chicane incident in Spa....webber was trying a move on the outside..just like Lewis did in Spa..But back than Lewis should just have backed of or waited another corner to make the move...because lewis was over enthusiastic to make a pass attempt at that spot and after all Kimi was in the lead so he could pick his line...Just don't get it why the same people who said this back than now see things differently....
Webber wasn't trying to go around the outside. He was trying to get a good line on the exist of the chicane....

[Knock-on]

Oh for gods sake stop reading what you want in my posts. I have constantly maintained that Lewis should be given the benefit of the doubt with regards to the Glock incident as there was a crapload of spray.

What I was talking about was the incident with Webber where Hamilton moved off line in what was a rather clumsy move and whacked Webber. You can say what you want about it but it's not smart to risk broken suspension so needlessly if you're fighting for the title.

Sorry Daniel, I thought you were talking about the Toyota.

Can you supply a link to the pass you're talking about?

[Tonieke]

Webber wasn't trying to go around the outside. He was trying to get a good line on the exist of the chicane....

ya just like Lewis tried to do in Spa not ?

[Daniel]

ya just like Lewis tried to do in Spa not ?
No one has a problem with the move Lewis was TRYING to pull off. I don't see the relevance of it at all.

[Dzeidzei]

It seems that the other drivers are starting to have enough with Lewis´ driving style. Timo saying that he´ll do the same next time.... Alonso complaining about Lewis´ lines.

Despite what Lewis´ fans say, his driving can be labelled as dangerous. Its not even an odd occasion, it seems to be his way. Yesterday Lewis was very lucky not to collect anyone (or himself) while doing his stunts.

Its a shame really. He´s so damn quick that theres no need for these moves. Yesterday in the rain he was definitely in a league of his own, no question about it. The problem is... if he wins wdc how big will his ego get? Almost as big as his balls?

Luckily its the team that starts to fcuk up his campaign as the decisive races come closer. I´d say this puts Felipe in a great spot for wdc. And of these two Id absolutely like to see Felipe win.

[Daniel]

Sorry Daniel, I thought you were talking about the Toyota.

Can you supply a link to the pass you're talking about?
No problems. Like I said Lewis moves off his line just a smidge under braking. It wasn't a full blooded chop or anything like that and I'm not calling for a penalty or anything. Just perhaps a warning or something. It's not exactly crime of the century and it won't be talked about for years to come I just think that you should give people a little bit more room than that.

[PolePosition_1]

I saw MS called a criminal on these forums for allegedly pushing Alonso to the grass at Silverstone in 03. I would pull the thread up for you, but unfortunately because of some glitch in the past, there seems is almost nothing from before 05 in the archive.

My complaint is not about LH's moves. When MS was pulling similar moves, he was called lots of non-nice things on these forums. These forumers would not take the argument that being aggressive is part of what racing is. But now that LH is doing the same, they are all for it. I find it hypocritical.

I'm not saying it wasn't dangerous, it was. But then so is racing cars at 200 mph in the rain. F1 is dangerous.

You may be correct, maybe those who are saying what Hamilton did was right said it was wrong when Schumacher did exactly the same. Thats hypocritical too. I admit that. But at the moment, I mainly see Schumacher fans complaining about what Hamilton did, and thats hypocritical.

[Tonieke]

It seems that the other drivers are starting to have enough with Lewis´ driving style. Timo saying that he´ll do the same next time.... Alonso complaining about Lewis´ lines.

Timo saying that just shows what lewis did was ok...as he's goin to do the same next tim he has the occasion...correct me if I am wrong ?

and dunno what Alonso's prob is ? Lewis passed him on the straight and was a full car lenght in front.....otherwise he would have "clipped" the nose of the Renault not..when he moved back on the racing line ?

it was all on the edge yes...But not over it in my opinion !

[Knock-on]

No problems. Like I said Lewis moves off his line just a smidge under braking. It wasn't a full blooded chop or anything like that and I'm not calling for a penalty or anything. Just perhaps a warning or something. It's not exactly crime of the century and it won't be talked about for years to come I just think that you should give people a little bit more room than that.

If he does something wrong, he should get a penalty the same as anyone else but you can't go around giving warnings to drivers just for racing hard and fast.

Schumacher was rightly criticised for his chopping and driving cars off track when trying to pass him. That was wrong and it was mainly ignored by the authorities.

Now, the same people on here that defended that are saying Lewis is a dirty driver when he hasn't done those types of moves and indeed, hasn't done anything wrong.

So, why the warning? For racing hard?

[Tonieke]

No one has a problem with the move Lewis was TRYING to pull off. I don't see the relevance of it at all.


than u should check back..people saying it was wrong for him to make the pass...Kimi should not give room to Lewis because kimi was the lead car..kimi was in the lead so he could pick the racing line etc etc...

[Daniel]

I'm not saying it wasn't dangerous, it was. But then so is racing cars at 200 mph in the rain. F1 is dangerous.

You may be correct, maybe those who are saying what Hamilton did was right said it was wrong when Schumacher did exactly the same. Thats hypocritical too. I admit that. But at the moment, I mainly see Schumacher fans complaining about what Hamilton did, and thats hypocritical.

But the question is whether the risks are needless or not.

Lets take the incident with Glock. Had that happened in the dry with good visibility I feel that would have been unacceptable. You just shouldn't force a car off at that speed. As it is it was wet and visibility was crap so unless Hamilton says he chopped Glock then we'll have to assume he thought Glock was further back and not alongside him. Benefit of the doubt. Thankfully the move with Webber was at a much lower speed to the chance of serious injury was virtually nil

[Hawkmoon]

:up:

yawn another Michael Schumacher bashing thread
predictable.

1. bash Hamilton, feign outrage
2. attack those not sharing the same pov
3. then complain about being insulted by those people
4. then get into semantics about the issue
5. thread becomes yet another pointless exercise at trying to reason.

Shoes on the other foot now. ;)

As time goes by it will be interesting to see if the amount of vitriol spewed at Hamilton approaches the levels that were thrown at Schumi.

For the record, I saw nothing that didn't make me smile. Hamilton was racing for god's sake! I just wish Raikkonen and Massa had been taking notes instead of driving around in a daze all afternoon.

[Daniel]

If he does something wrong, he should get a penalty the same as anyone else but you can't go around giving warnings to drivers just for racing hard and fast.

Schumacher was rightly criticised for his chopping and driving cars off track when trying to pass him. That was wrong and it was mainly ignored by the authorities.

Now, the same people on here that defended that are saying Lewis is a dirty driver when he hasn't done those types of moves and indeed, hasn't done anything wrong.

So, why the warning? For racing hard?

For causing an avoidable accident? Like I said it's hardly crime of the century but he does seem to be a little too aggressive for the other drivers liking.

[PolePosition_1]

But the question is whether the risks are needless or not.

Lets take the incident with Glock. Had that happened in the dry with good visibility I feel that would have been unacceptable. You just shouldn't force a car off at that speed. As it is it was wet and visibility was crap so unless Hamilton says he chopped Glock then we'll have to assume he thought Glock was further back and not alongside him. Benefit of the doubt. Thankfully the move with Webber was at a much lower speed to the chance of serious injury was virtually nil

Well, Schumacher done the same, in straight line on Alonso in the dry.

So straight off what Hamilton did on Glock wasn't as bad. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt in that he didn't see him. It was dangerous. But it was sporting in my eyes.

With Webber, again, its just aggressive, if I remember correctly Kimi forced Massa onto the white line / grass in Belgium last weekend on the first lap, no fuss was made on that. Its just aggressive driving style which is hugely entertaining and sporting. I don't have a problem with it.

If he knowingly forced Glock onto the grass, then I'd be disappointed. But with Webber, he did have enough room, it was just that Webber wasn't right on the edge.

[Knock-on]

For causing an avoidable accident? Like I said it's hardly crime of the century but he does seem to be a little too aggressive for the other drivers liking.

What accident?

I didn't see one, did you?

I think it's a little unfair to punish a driver for causing an avoidable accident when he didn't have one.

Not even Max has tried that one.... yet.

You seem so keen to punish him that reason and reality have left the room.

[Daniel]

What accident?

I didn't see one, did you?

I think it's a little unfair to punish a driver for causing an avoidable accident when he didn't have one.

Not even Max has tried that one.... yet.

You seem so keen to punish him that reason and reality have left the room.
Come on now lets stick with the facts :)

Please show me where I called for Lewis to be penalised :)

Does an accident need to involve one or more cars being disabled or having to go back to the pits?

[Knock-on]

Come on now lets stick with the facts :)

Please show me where I called for Lewis to be penalised :)

Does an accident need to involve one or more cars being disabled or having to go back to the pits?

Now I'm getting confused?

You called for him to get a warning for causing an avoidable accident. Isn't a warning penalising a driver or are warnings there to be ignored as they carry no weight?

An accident to me is not wheels touching just as Kimi running into the back of Lewis at Spa wasn't an accident, just a little nerf up the bum.

You really are losing me with this warning for causing an avoidable accident business and think you just want to see him penalised full stop.

Do you actually enjoy racing or see it as an excuse to victimise a driver? I saw a great GP last weekend. What about you?

Surely what we saw yesterday was symmetry to Schumachers aggressive driving style. As a Schumacher fan, surely you'd appreciate what we saw from Hamilton yesterday if you viewed it unbiasedly.

If Hamilton was a Ferrari boy, would you feel the same way? If not, did you not like the aggressive style of Schmachers?

I certainly saw shades of Schumi in Hamilton's approach yesterday.

To be fair, I've seen plenty of the same attitude from Lewis, starting in Monaco last year & then Hungary. Call it ruthlessness, call it arrogance, call it what you want, but I'm not surprised by it.

It may not make him the sort of person who is universally liked, but it will make him a winner.

That said, some day having such a ruthless streak does mean it will go wrong, he'll cause an accident and then all hell will break loose.

[MrJan]

It seems that the other drivers are starting to have enough with Lewis´ driving style. Timo saying that he´ll do the same next time.... Alonso complaining about Lewis´ lines.

Despite what Lewis´ fans say, his driving can be labelled as dangerous. Its not even an odd occasion, it seems to be his way. Yesterday Lewis was very lucky not to collect anyone (or himself) while doing his stunts.

Lewis isn't really a dangerous driver, certainly not on the levels of an early Massa (or the SPinning Top we saw at Silverstone). These low speed racing moves (that's what they are, genuine racing moves that show his determination to win) might cause a driver to go out of the grand prix but are less likely to cause harm to anyone any more than some of the stupid stunts that Felipe used to pull.

As far as I'm concerned it's nice to see someone who isn't afraid to bash wheels at times. Glock certainly has no ground to complain because he could have got out of the throttle (he wasn't going to pull off that move round the outside anyway) and Alonso has always been a little b**** pot calling the kettle black.

Thankfully we now have Hamilton to give us the same grit and controversy as Michael Schumacher yet all the Schumi fans are moaning about it without realising how similar Lewis and Michael actually are.

[Azumanga Davo]

The move was good initially, but Hamilton's returning to the racing line was rather clumsy to say the least. I think he should have been prepared for the fact someone actually nearly kept up with him. I think someone should really tell him to focus, daft errors he certainly doesn't need now at this stage.

Posted by a fan of Ham.

[Viktory]

According to Hamilton, Webber was the one that clipped Hamilton.

"I made sure I covered my inside spot, but I didn't want to stay there on the wet patch or I wouldn't have made the corner," the Briton explained afterwards. "He just clipped my front wheel and went on."

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080915141257.shtml

right...

[Daniel]

The move was good initially, but Hamilton's returning to the racing line was rather clumsy to say the least. I think he should have been prepared for the fact someone actually nearly kept up with him. I think someone should really tell him to focus, daft errors he certainly doesn't need now at this stage.

Posted by a fan of Ham.
Do you watch to see a good race or do you watch so you can complain about Hamilton? :rolleyes:

:p

[Azumanga Davo]

Do you watch to see a good race or do you watch so you can complain about Hamilton? :rolleyes:

:p

I believe that would be my first whinge on the scoreboard for him. ;)

[Daniel]

Now I'm getting confused?

You called for him to get a warning for causing an avoidable accident. Isn't a warning penalising a driver or are warnings there to be ignored as they carry no weight?

An accident to me is not wheels touching just as Kimi running into the back of Lewis at Spa wasn't an accident, just a little nerf up the bum.

You really are losing me with this warning for causing an avoidable accident business and think you just want to see him penalised full stop.

Do you actually enjoy racing or see it as an excuse to victimise a driver? I saw a great GP last weekend. What about you?

Seeing incidents and discussing them doesn't ruin an event for me. If it ruins the event for you then perhaps you should just watch the races, enjoy them and give the forum a wide berth :)

I've kept on stating that I don't want him penalised and if you continue saying otherwise I'll have to start reporting your posts to a moderator because this is just not acceptable. I've clarified my position so deal with it and stop making out that I'm saying one thing when I am categorically stating something totally different!

A warning is a warning. Warnings are to be heeded and not to be ignored. Warning someone in no way penalises them.

[Daniel]

I believe that would be my first whinge on the scoreboard for him. ;)
I know. I just wondered what it was like to accuse someone of something when it was quite clear they weren't doing it :D

For the record it feels good :cheese:

[Knock-on]

Seeing incidents and discussing them doesn't ruin an event for me. If it ruins the event for you then perhaps you should just watch the races, enjoy them and give the forum a wide berth :)

I've kept on stating that I don't want him penalised and if you continue saying otherwise I'll have to start reporting your posts to a moderator because this is just not acceptable. I've clarified my position so deal with it and stop making out that I'm saying one thing when I am categorically stating something totally different!

Please feel free to report me for asking you to clarify what you are saying. I must admit, if I had of called you a Twunt, a fecking idiot or an imbercile who hasn't a clue what the hell he's on about, then I would expect my post to be reported but I haven't.

Sounds a bit strange to me just as asking for someone to receive a warning when they haven't broken the rules but looking at your interpretation of the forum rules for reporting people, I begin to understand where you're coming from :D


A warning is a warning. Warnings are to be heeded and not to be ignored. Warning someone in no way penalises them.

So, why should he be warned if he's done nothing wrong and if a warning is ignored, what should be the outcome?

Surely, a warning is the prelude to a penalty if it happens again?

So, I ask again. Why should he be warned and what was this avoidable accident he caused?

Please feel free to report me for asking such insulting questions :p

[ioan]

I'm not saying it wasn't dangerous, it was. But then so is racing cars at 200 mph in the rain. F1 is dangerous.

You may be correct, maybe those who are saying what Hamilton did was right said it was wrong when Schumacher did exactly the same. Thats hypocritical too. I admit that. But at the moment, I mainly see Schumacher fans complaining about what Hamilton did, and thats hypocritical.

Let's make things clear.
I as a Schumacher fan, can acknowledge that he pulled some dangerous moves, mostly defending his position, during his long F1 career.

Going over to Hamilton now. He's had more dangerous moves in one race than MS in one full season. Mostly overtaking moves where he doesn't create or wait for a clear opportunity to pass (by using a different line or cleanly outbraking other drivers.
He just sticks his nose in and than when there is nothing more to do he pushes the other driver wide, out of the road, or hits their car or so on.
That isn't equal to defending your position, that is bullying other drivers of the track because otherwise he can't pass them.
And there were too many such moves already in his very short career.

As for your previous point about being called a criminal, just take a look at how many JV fans and JV himself accused MS of trying to kill him in that last race of 1997, and FGS it was in a hairpin where they were doing maybe 60kph, not on a straight close to 300 kph.

[Daniel]

If the warning is ignored he should get a drive through during the race or if during the last 5 laps he should get a 5 second penalty if he doesn't take the penalty during the race.

The accident? remember when he hit Webber going into the first chicane?

It's quite funny really you have a point. The forums rules are well known and have been posted and enforced by Pino for a while now. But here comes someone who feels that they know the rules and they're happy to push things to the boundaries and do things which are not explicitly stated in the rules as not being allowed. The F1 regs have been clarified.... perhaps the forum rules need to be changed/clarified to include people who deliberately disregard what people say on the forum. To me it is not acceptable for such rudeness to keep on happening on the forum. It's petty, it's juvenile and I happen to know you're actually a more intelligent person than you're showing yourself to be....

yet all the Schumi fans are moaning about it without realising how similar Lewis and Michael actually are.

I'm not. I realised that in Monaco 07, it was confirmed for me in Hungary 07.

[Tonieke]

Going over to Hamilton now. He's had more dangerous moves in one race than MS in one full season.
.

Just to be sure..you are talking about Monza there Ioan ?

[Knock-on]

If the warning is ignored he should get a drive through during the race or if during the last 5 laps he should get a 5 second penalty if he doesn't take the penalty during the race.

The accident? remember when he hit Webber going into the first chicane?

It's quite funny really you have a point. The forums rules are well known and have been posted and enforced by Pino for a while now. But here comes someone who feels that they know the rules and they're happy to push things to the boundaries and do things which are not explicitly stated in the rules as not being allowed. The F1 regs have been clarified.... perhaps the forum rules need to be changed/clarified to include people who deliberately disregard what people say on the forum. To me it is not acceptable for such rudeness to keep on happening on the forum. It's petty, it's juvenile and I happen to know you're actually a more intelligent person than you're showing yourself to be....

As I pointed out in my last post, I have not been rude to you. I have merely asked you to clarify what you are going on about.

I cannot see how that is petty or juvernile but possibly showing you a bit more consideration that you show in return but nevermind, that's your perogative.

Anyway, back to the debate as your views on my intelligence are irrelevant.

You believe that Hamilton and Webber touching wheels is Hamilton causing a avoidable accident for which he should be warned for and if he does it again, he should be penalised.

I believe it was racing and very entertaining.

Glad we agree to disagree.

[Knock-on]

Just to be sure..you are talking about Monza there Ioan ?


This is why I have ioan on my ignore list so I don't have to read those sorts of comments :laugh:

Try it, it's very refreshing :D

[dwf1]

As I pointed out in my last post, I have not been rude to you. I have merely asked you to clarify what you are going on about.

I cannot see how that is petty or juvernile but possibly showing you a bit more consideration that you show in return but nevermind, that's your perogative.

Anyway, back to the debate as your views on my intelligence are irrelevant.

You believe that Hamilton and Webber touching wheels is Hamilton causing a avoidable accident for which he should be warned for and if he does it again, he should be penalised.

I believe it was racing and very entertaining.

Glad we agree to disagree.


I agree to disagree on reasons about lewis but I know I have enjoyed the last two races loads but have had it ruined by people wanting to sanction certain drivers because of an unlike for them and then the FIA also ruining it. Goes on top that I'm a newcastle fan and the loads couple of weeks have been brill!!!! . . . . .not!

This is why I have ioan on my ignore list so I don't have to read those sorts of comments :laugh:

Try it, it's very refreshing :D

If you're "ignoring" him, why the personal dig?

[Azumanga Davo]

This is why I have ioan on my ignore list so I don't have to read those sorts of comments :laugh:

Try it, it's very refreshing :D

I find it actually makes the forum rather dull and empty... ;)

[pino]

Back to racing...thank you !

[SGWilko]

Back to racing...thank you !

15:00 at Ascot?

[MrJan]

15:00 at Ascot?

Tiny Gemstone each way please :D

[pino]

15:00 at Ascot?

Racing-talk and not the usual nonsense ;)

[MrJan]

Racing-talk and not the usual nonsense ;)

But then the forum would cease to exist :cheese:

[PolePosition_1]

Let's make things clear.
I as a Schumacher fan, can acknowledge that he pulled some dangerous moves, mostly defending his position, during his long F1 career.

Going over to Hamilton now. He's had more dangerous moves in one race than MS in one full season. Mostly overtaking moves where he doesn't create or wait for a clear opportunity to pass (by using a different line or cleanly outbraking other drivers.
He just sticks his nose in and than when there is nothing more to do he pushes the other driver wide, out of the road, or hits their car or so on.
That isn't equal to defending your position, that is bullying other drivers of the track because otherwise he can't pass them.
And there were too many such moves already in his very short career.

As for your previous point about being called a criminal, just take a look at how many JV fans and JV himself accused MS of trying to kill him in that last race of 1997, and FGS it was in a hairpin where they were doing maybe 60kph, not on a straight close to 300 kph.

How many 'dangerous' incidents has Lewis been involved in over the last 2 seasons?

I must be honest I can't think of too many....

I just don't see how you can critisize Lewis for his moves yet congratulate MS for his. They're both very similar in their approaches.

[Roamy]

I thought Hamilton looked excellent, finally someone who will get off their high paid ass and pass someone. He has shown some real good moves and great aggression this year.

[wedge]

Let's make things clear.
I as a Schumacher fan, can acknowledge that he pulled some dangerous moves, mostly defending his position, during his long F1 career.

Going over to Hamilton now. He's had more dangerous moves in one race than MS in one full season. Mostly overtaking moves where he doesn't create or wait for a clear opportunity to pass (by using a different line or cleanly outbraking other drivers.
He just sticks his nose in and than when there is nothing more to do he pushes the other driver wide, out of the road, or hits their car or so on.

That isn't equal to defending your position, that is bullying other drivers of the track because otherwise he can't pass them.
And there were too many such moves already in his very short career.


Both LH and MS are tough racers and don't make things easy.

In most instances, the other driver should learn to grow bigger balls and quite complaining.

[Bradley]

I thought Hamilton looked excellent, finally someone who will get off their high paid ass and pass someone. He has shown some real good moves and great aggression this year.

Maybe, but he wouldn't have passed many if they had shown the same agression towards him :

- imagine every single one of them crisscrossing the straight from right to left to right to left again to prevent Ham from slipstreaming (as he did in Spa)
- and giving him a little push with the wheel while he tries to outbrake them (as he did to Webber)
- and simply pushing him in the grass while he's trying to pass them around the outside of the corner (as he did to Glock)

Off course then they would all do those same tricks towards eachother ... Wonder how long that circus would be tolerated :dozey:


Hamilton is not used to being victim of "agression". He would probably immediately loose his self-confidence and start to blunder, as he did after Massa gave him a cookie from his own dough in the start of the last race of 2007 :p :

[Viktory]

well, Glock has said he'll be as aggressive as Hamilton was to him the next time they race each other, so will be interesting no doubt...

[Triumph]

Surely not more anti-Hamilton drivel! :rolleyes:

I've only been here a week and poor old Lewis has been going through it from day one!

Just live with the fact that Lewis Hamilton is something special. All the bitter jibes in the world aren't going to change that, so why not concentrate your energy on something a bit more positive, like supporting your favourite driver?

:)

[pino]

... so why not concentrate your energy on something a bit more positive, like supporting your favourite driver?

:)

Sadly that will never happen in here :(

[jas123f1]

I would say: Undeniably a bit dirty racing from Lewis and i can understund if Glock is furious with him..

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr129/Jas123F1/F1/LewisGlock2.jpg

[Triumph]

That proves nothing - apart from the apparent fact that you don't like Lewis Hamilton.

Niki Lauda said it all when he summed up the other drivers' opinion on the penalty given to Lewis Hamilton at Spa. Jealousy.

It looks as if we have another Michael Schumacher in the making here. Time will tell.

[Tomi]

It looks as if we have another Michael Schumacher in the making here. Time will tell.

in what way? you sure cant mean driver skill wise.

[Tomi]

well, Glock has said he'll be as aggressive as Hamilton was to him the next time they race each other, so will be interesting no doubt...

I was thinking the same yesterday, that in the future there will be a few guys wh dont give space anymore.

[Triumph]

in what way? you sure cant mean driver skill wise.

In several ways. His style has been likened to that of Schumacher, as has his tactical mind.

As I said, time will tell.

[Tonieke]

I would say: Undeniably a bit dirty racing from Lewis and i can understund if Glock is furious with him..

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr129/Jas123F1/F1/LewisGlock2.jpg

again..why should Lewis give Timo space and in Spa Kimi shouldn't have donne so for Lewis...Both defending there position not ? Can anyone explain the difference between both cases ?

[jens]

I agree with those, who say that with his racing attitude Hamilton reminds a lot of Senna and Schumacher. Remember how at Silverstone '93 Briatore was very annoyed, when Senna blocked Schumacher heavily. :p : Same cases can be remember with Schumacher too.

In order to succeed in F1 and to become a real star, it's needed to test the limits in every area - sometimes you fail, of course - and get bashed after that. Driving and racing on the ultimate limit seems to be the sign of great drivers. It may seem unfair, risky and even dirty, but I must admit I have some sympathy to Hamilton's racing style as he shows 100% determination to prove his words and try to be the best.

But Timo promised a payback to Lewis for his driving "style", so the future could bring interesting situations. :p :

[Tonieke]

+ look at the car in front of Lewis..exactly on the same racing line as the McL....so you can't accuse him either for driving an extreme line in order to push of Timo...

[Triumph]

Martin Brundle pointed out that Lewis wouldn't have expected Timo to have been there and went on to say that Lewis wasn't looking in his mirror (which I assume would have been apparent to Martin Brundle if he was), so that supports his original statement.

The payback threat made me smile. :) That puts the question of driver character firmly into perspective.

:)

[jas123f1]

That proves nothing - apart from the apparent fact that you don't like Lewis Hamilton.

Niki Lauda said it all when he summed up the other drivers' opinion on the penalty given to Lewis Hamilton at Spa. Jealousy.

It looks as if we have another Michael Schumacher in the making here. Time will tell.


What a B***S*** - i like Lewis, but it doesn't make me blind..

[jas123f1]

again..why should Lewis give Timo space and in Spa Kimi shouldn't have donne so for Lewis...Both defending there position not ? Can anyone explain the difference between both cases ?

Lewis actually puch him out from the track and it's far too selfish and dangerous.. how it should be if every one start to racing like that??

And this hasn't anyting with Kimi to do..

[ioan]

I would say: Undeniably a bit dirty racing from Lewis and i can understund if Glock is furious with him..

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr129/Jas123F1/F1/LewisGlock2.jpg

You're losing your time, as long as it's done by "the best thing since sliced bread" it will be cataloged by the "Teflon Boy" fans as hard but fair ( :eek: ) racing!

[Daniel]

Ioan.... you're just jealous because he's black and successful ;)

[ioan]

again..why should Lewis give Timo space and in Spa Kimi shouldn't have donne so for Lewis...Both defending there position not ? Can anyone explain the difference between both cases ?


+ look at the car in front of Lewis..exactly on the same racing line as the McL....so you can't accuse him either for driving an extreme line in order to push of Timo...

:rolleyes: :confused: :s :( :mad:

[ioan]

Ioan.... you're just jealous because he's black and successful ;)

I can't believe it that it took you almost 2 seasons to realize this! ;) :rotflmao:

What should I do now that everyone knows this secret? :confused: :laugh:

[Tonieke]

It's kinda funny to see each time the name Lewis hamilton drops in a thread a couple of people on here can't resist to start making fun of him...in a very childish way...so a "normal" discussion" is hardly possible....

...grow up I would say !

and I wouldn't call you guys real F1 fans either..because in that case you would have respect for every driver out there...liking him or not...

[ioan]

It's kinda funny to see each time the name Lewis hamilton drops in a thread a couple of people on here can't resist to start making fun of him...in a very childish way...so a "normal" discussion" is hardly possible....

...grow up I would say !

and I wouldn't call you guys real F1 fans either..because in that case you would have respect for every driver out there...liking him or not...

Take care, according to Pino that is a personal attack!