Roth asked not to return next year?

[BobGarage]

According to the bloke in the sky sports studio (uk tv) the IRL have asked Marty Roth not to return as a driver next year. They have, apparently, told him his team his welcome back, but they want to see someone other than himself in the drivers seat.

[VkmSpouge]

Clearly his team isn't bad the performances of John Andretti and Jay Howard showed that Roth cars could run reasonably well. I would hope that Marty chooses to retire from Indycars and focus on running his team for one or two good drivers.

[SarahFan]

dude had a decent qualifying run.... but dropped like 15 spots in the first 5 laps.....rediculous

[NickFalzone]

dude had a decent qualifying run.... but dropped like 15 spots in the first 5 laps.....rediculous

There's no question that with $$ and some experience, a driver/owner like Roth can make a solid qualifying effort on ovals. But it takes more than that to run a great race. Marty has some real knowledge and expertise from his driving that he could bring to a role as team owner. But he does not need to be competing in 09 with what will be one of the strongest IRL fields in many years. I thought Jay Howard did a reasonable job when given the chance this season. Howard and Meira might be a decent Roth Racing team if they decided to go in that direction.

[SarahFan]

There's no question that with $$ and some experience, a driver/owner like Roth can make a solid qualifying effort on ovals. But it takes more than that to run a great race. Marty has some real knowledge and expertise from his driving that he could bring to a role as team owner. But he does not need to be competing in 09 with what will be one of the strongest IRL fields in many years. I thought Jay Howard did a reasonable job when given the chance this season. Howard and Meira might be a decent Roth Racing team if they decided to go in that direction.

he's canadien... how about PT and Ranger

[NickFalzone]

PT acted like he was lowering his standards for Vision, so no, will not go for Roth. I do think the PT will find a ride though, possibly a full Vision-Walker team next season, or at least a road course team.

[SarahFan]

PT acted like he was lowering his standards for Vision, so no, will not go for Roth. I do think the PT will find a ride though, possibly a full Vision-Walker team next season, or at least a road course team.

I hope so.... love him or hate him he sure makes things more enjoyable....

[LTalbot]

I think it's a shame if this is true. I love good competition, but like in Formula 1, for every Ferrari, there is a Force India bringing up the rear. It's Marty's team, and if he wan't to continue to drive, he should be allowed. It's not like he finished last in points either. I wish I could run and drive for my own racing team.

[16&Gtown]

I think it's a shame if this is true. I love good competition, but like in Formula 1, for every Ferrari, there is a Force India bringing up the rear. It's Marty's team, and if he wan't to continue to drive, he should be allowed. It's not like he finished last in points either. I wish I could run and drive for my own racing team.

Well I think it is a different story when you are endangering others just to live out your personal dreams. just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you are qualified... Why should just anyone be allowed to drive? Noone is saying he can't have a team. I think it's a SAFE move

[IWUTitan90]

Well I think it is a different story when you are endangering others just to live out your personal dreams. just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you are qualified... Why should just anyone be allowed to drive? Noone is saying he can't have a team. I think it's a SAFE move

I think Tony George, Barnhart and Cotman should, all three, sit down with Marty and encourage him to become solely an owner. Explain to him the thanks you have for his participation as a driver, their desire to have him remain a part of the Indy Car Series and show him, in detail, the path that Chip Ganassi took to become the succesful team owner he is.
But in NO way should they just "kick him to the curb". It's an awfully fine edge your trying to ride by saying it's a "safety" issue. How is he any less safe now, compared to last year, when they needed him for car count?
Don't get me wrong, I agree Marty is in way over his head, but the truth is, 365 days ago, the league WANTED Marty Roth to participate.

[racer69]

I think he probably should give it away...

but what right do the IRL have to tell teams who can and can't drive their cars. Roth obviously has done well enough to get the relevant licence to run Indycars, and while not quick, he hasn't caused accidents for others....surely if they're asking Roth to pull out, Milka Duno would be receiving the same treatment.

[MDS]

I think it's a shame if this is true. I love good competition, but like in Formula 1, for every Ferrari, there is a Force India bringing up the rear. It's Marty's team, and if he wan't to continue to drive, he should be allowed. It's not like he finished last in points either. I wish I could run and drive for my own racing team.

Force India is miles ahead of Roth Racing. Adrian Sutil and Giancarlo Fischella are both well-trained and capable drivers. Their cars are full of sponsors, and they're more than capable of holding onto the back of the pack, if not better.

Marty Roth is is a threat to himself at best on street courses, and an annoyance on roadies and moving chcane on ovals.

[16&Gtown]

I think he probably should give it away...

but what right do the IRL have to tell teams who can and can't drive their cars. Roth obviously has done well enough to get the relevant licence to run Indycars, and while not quick, he hasn't caused accidents for others....surely if they're asking Roth to pull out, Milka Duno would be receiving the same treatment.

He hasn't caused accidents for others??? are you joking me? I mean it's bad enough we have the pretty much guarenteed 10 minutes of yellow within the first 50 laps of the race to clean up his mess. He has even added pit crew members to his target list. But then again, so has Danica...

[racer69]

He hasn't caused accidents for others??? are you joking me? I mean it's bad enough we have the pretty much guarenteed 10 minutes of yellow within the first 50 laps of the race to clean up his mess. He has even added pit crew members to his target list. But then again, so has Danica...

I'm not arguing he's caused accidents that have involved himself, but how many have involved other cars out on the track as well??

[16&Gtown]

I'm not arguing he's caused accidents that have involved himself, but how many have involved other cars out on the track as well??

Any accident is a potential hazzard to other drivers. Debris and others reacting to his accident are dangerous consequences that could be avoided if he just wasn't there.

[F1boat]

This is quite insulting IMO. The people who were loyal to the IRL are kicked out after Tony got the CART teams. Maybe Marty should leave and go to the Rolex Sports Car series championship.

[nigelred5]

He'd be better suited to the needs of driving a Rolex machine, but is suspect he wants to drive INDYCARS, not sportscars. IMHO, what he should consider is stepping down to driving a Lights car himself and allow a more qualified driver to run for him in Indycars.

[Chris R]

Marty Roth could do quite well for himself as an owner like Chip Ganassi and Dale Coyne before him. If he needs to scratch the driving itch get a historic car or two and go vintage racing or run himself in Lights while running a good IRL team...

THis situation is all about how it is handled - put the wrong way the IRL will lose him and his team - put the right way they could have a solid and loyal team owner for years to come....

[indy88]

Talked with a Roth crew member last week and he said Marty has asked for a 2009 budget to go Daytona Prototype racing next year.
Guess he'll be torturing those guys next year.
Marty Roth(The Sloth), worst Indycar driver all time.

[SarahFan]

Talked with a Roth crew member last week and he said Marty has asked for a 2009 budget to go Daytona Prototype racing next year.
Guess he'll be torturing those guys next year.
Marty Roth(The Sloth), worst Indycar driver all time.

I thought this guy was running on his own dime...

who did he ask for the budget?

[indy88]

Asked his team manager to put budget together.

[FormerFF]

I see in Curt Cavin's blog that Marty is selling his equipment, both cars and transporters, so I guess he won't be back. Sorry to see the team leave/relieved to see Marty out of the car. He could have been a good team owner.

[16&Gtown]

I see in Curt Cavin's blog that Marty is selling his equipment, both cars and transporters, so I guess he won't be back. Sorry to see the team leave/relieved to see Marty out of the car. He could have been a good team owner.

Thank Christ

[bennybigb]

Yay!! 2 less cars!!

Oh wait, why is a team going out of business good news? Someones gotta be a back marker, and it kinda sucks when last on the grid is still in the top 20.

[DanicaFan]

Now lets get Milka out of there and we can have some good races without moving hazards out there. :D

[NickFalzone]

Calling it 2 less cars is a real exaggeration. I can't remember how many races Roth ran both, but if it was half the season I'd be surprised, and with neither on the track the number was still at least 24 cars.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think Tony George, Barnhart and Cotman should, all three, sit down with Marty and encourage him to become solely an owner. Explain to him the thanks you have for his participation as a driver, their desire to have him remain a part of the Indy Car Series and show him, in detail, the path that Chip Ganassi took to become the succesful team owner he is.
But in NO way should they just "kick him to the curb". It's an awfully fine edge your trying to ride by saying it's a "safety" issue. How is he any less safe now, compared to last year, when they needed him for car count?
Don't get me wrong, I agree Marty is in way over his head, but the truth is, 365 days ago, the league WANTED Marty Roth to participate.


This is SO true. When CCWS was still in business, Marty Roth was a field filler in a thin field. They NEEDED that entry and he couldn't get anyone else in it or didn't want to. They allowed him to race on and off the last 3 years. A little late now to say he isn't qualified. Listen, if they tell Milka Duno to stay home, then you can ask Marty to quit driving. Until then.....well you reap what you sow.

Marty should own and not drive but I suspect if he was realistic enough to know he doesn't have the talent before, I doubt anything Cotman, Barnhart and the like will say will change much.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Oh heck...never mind...lol...didn't realize there was a second page and I quoted and posted before finishing....I guess Marty is realistic sort of after all.

[Marbles]

I agree that Marty shouldn't be in a race car. Nothing against 50 year olds (I'm in the neighbourhood myself) but even the uber talented Mario Andretti was making some questionable moves at that age... and he's in a different league than Marty. But having said that, Marty does fill the role of a Gentleman racer and that is, in many ways, the very spirit of motorsports.

From: http://www.wheels.ca/Article%20Category/article/419845


Oct 18, 2008

A couple of years ago, when there were two Indy car series, the people who owned them were frantic for cars. Champ Car and the IRL would literally roll out the red carpet for anyone who showed up. Sometimes, they went further.

In 2005, to fill out the field at Long Beach, Champ Car talked one of its Formula Atlantic owners into running a guy nobody had ever heard of. A total nobody.

"I don't have a Champ Car," said the Atlantic owner. "We'll get you one," said Champ Car.

"I don't have that kind of money (to run a Champ Car)," the Atlantic owner said. "We'll reimburse you," said Champ Car.

So they got him a Champ Car all right – a show car that had been on display in Montreal. They also got him an engine from the manufacturer that happened to be owned by Champ Car.

The Atlantic owner ran the guy in the Long Beach Grand Prix, but he emptied his bank account in the process.

Champ Car had a field, so they were happy. Nobody has heard of the driver since. The Atlantic owner is still waiting for the money that was promised to him.

Moral: They love you when they need you. Afterwards, not so much.

In 2004, only 33 cars showed up to race at the Indianapolis 500, which, for most of its 90-plus years, has been considered a full field.

The Indy Racing League people were happy to see Marty Roth of Toronto that year. Really happy. Without Roth, the first "short field" in the history of the 500 would have gone to the post.

Roth ran in four Indy 500s. He didn't have great success but he was never the slowest qualifier and he never finished last.

He ran a team full-time in the IRL this past season. Again, he did not enjoy great finishes (13th at Nashville was his best) but he qualified well four times – eighth in the season opener at Homestead-Miami Speedway, seventh at Kansas, 11th at Kentucky and ninth at Chicagoland.

I'm not great at math but Indy car racing was one big happy family this season and the average starting field was 26 cars, so if Roth qualified seventh at Kansas, say, then 19 cars were behind him driven by people who didn't go as fast as he did.

I'd say that's pretty good.

But not good enough, apparently, for the Indy Racing League. Roth has received word that the IRL is not fussy about having him around. They say he's too slow, that he's getting in people's way, that he doesn't fit "the demographic".

They love you when they need you. Afterwards, not so much.

So Roth has laid off 20 of his 25 employees and put his team up for sale – including four cars and a shop in Indianapolis – and he's washed his hands of racing with the IRL now and, he says, forever.

As far as he's concerned, the next time they need guys like him – which could come as early as March at Homestead-Miami when only 15 or 16 cars show up for the season opener (with the economy tanking like it is) – he will tell them to go take a hike.

"I actually have not talked directly to the IRL about this," Roth told me in conversation this week. "I've called; they won't call me back. But this is what happened:

"I was approached by three men at the last race in Chicago who wanted to get involved with my team – to run it and to market it. That has always been a big problem for me, a lack of budgeting. That and a lack of testing really did me in. When I could test, I did well – including on the road courses. When I couldn't test – and they wouldn't let me test most of the time – I had a hard time.

"One of the people was Jim Freudenberg. Jim has an incredible resumé in racing (among other things, he was part of the management team at the Molson Indy races in Toronto and Vancouver). He and the other two felt I had a great demographic: the league is full of 25-year-olds all going after the same sponsors. I have my own demographic – I'm turning 50!"

Roth was excited by this turn of events. He's been beating his head against a brick wall all these years by acting as driver and – with wife Margaret – as team manager and marketing director. It's been a tonne of work.

"This was the icing on the cake," Roth said. "This was what we'd been waiting for."

However, when Freudenberg and the others went to talk to the IRL about their plans, they returned with news that Roth was not happy to hear. "The IRL told them that they didn't want me driving any more, that they wanted me out of the cockpit and somebody else should drive. They wanted me to just be an owner. The quote was: `His demographic is as an owner, not as a driver.'

"Have you ever heard of anything so stupid in your life?" Roth thundered.

"What the hell is an `owner demographic?' I'll tell you what it is, it's ageism. It's age discrimination. So I told Jim there was no way I was going to do that."

Freudenberg, according to Roth, went back to the IRL and returned with what would appear to have been some sort of compromise proposal.

"They told me they'd (the IRL) let me do Indy and `a bunch of ovals.' I said, `What ovals?' We're trying to develop a business here, we're trying to sell a product – to race and promote a sponsor – and they say they'll let me run a `bunch of ovals!'

"So Freudenberg says to them, `What about Toronto (where the IRL will race next July after a year's absence)? Roth is from Toronto and I could sell a sponsorship for Toronto tomorrow.' And the IRL says, `Okay, we'll let him run Toronto.'"

This is when Roth really got hot under the collar.

"This makes absolutely no sense," he said. "I can't run a race team like this. I have never heard of anything so ridiculous in my life. They're telling me what races I can run? It goes from none, to Indy and a `bunch of ovals,' to Toronto? The hell with it. I'll tell them what races I'll run – I'll run none of them!"

Roth, who freely admits he's licking his wounds, softened his tirade – somewhat.

"It's unfortunate," he said. "I put my heart and soul into this. I loved the IRL. I didn't see this coming. I didn't think we had a bad year. A couple of times we sat on the grid in front of AGR cars (Andretti-Green), in front of Penske cars and that's a really good feeling, being the underdog.

"And it's doubly unfortunate because now we won't be racing in Toronto – and now that Formula One's gone, how long will it be before Montreal opens up as a market for the IRL? I should be there."

I agree.

Roth finished 24th in this year's IRL standings. There were 15 drivers behind him, including Milka Duno and Mario Dominguez.

If the IRL hasn't sent those drivers – and others like them – the same message, they owe Marty Roth an apology.

[garyshell]

"What the hell is an `owner demographic?' I'll tell you what it is, it's ageism. It's age discrimination. So I told Jim there was no way I was going to do that."

...

"It's unfortunate," he said. "I put my heart and soul into this. I loved the IRL. I didn't see this coming. I didn't think we had a bad year. A couple of times we sat on the grid in front of AGR cars (Andretti-Green), in front of Penske cars and that's a really good feeling, being the underdog.


Hello, Cleopatra.

Marty, Marty, Marty. Ageism? Hardly, it's called YOU CAN'T KEEP PACE. You are a moving chicane and a danger to those around you on track.

You may have sat on the grid in front of an AGR or Penske car (through no accomplishment of your own). But the moment the green flag dropped you were right back at the tail of the pack. As always.

Gary

[FormerFF]

Sorry Marty, I'm 50, and I can tell you that if I stepped back in a race car, I'd be slower, no matter what I did. My vision isn't as sharp, my reactions aren't what they were, and my balance isn't as good. There's a reason there are no 50 year olds in Formula 1, and why there are no competitive 50 year olds in Indycar. Age does slow you down.

[MDS]

"It's unfortunate," he said. "I put my heart and soul into this. I loved the IRL. I didn't see this coming. I didn't think we had a bad year. A couple of times we sat on the grid in front of AGR cars (Andretti-Green), in front of Penske cars and that's a really good feeling, being the underdog.

I'm sorry, but if he couldn't see this coming I really question his visual ability. How many races the IRL have to park him at? At least St Pete, Detroit and probably a few others I'm not aware of.

He was going to be 50, and people are calling Paul Tracy old at 40. I will give him credit for holding it on the track and not crashing, but think he should have known his potential was fading and had limited time to improve his skills. Marty should have been preparing a transition plan.

In a piece of trivia the driver mentioned was Fabrizio De Monte and the owner was Dan Jensen.

[MDS]

Can anyone say Fangio? Age is not the sole determining factor.

Juan Manuel Fangio, and Harry Gant were exceptions, outside of those two I can't think of any other driver who really came into their own after 45. Age isn't always a determining factor, but when was the last time a driver over 40 won a Champ Car, F-1, or an IRL race after 2002 when the pros started showing up again.

More than a few people called Sebastien Bourdias old this year and he's not even 30.

[Chris R]

It sounds like both parties have some issues to resolve... The IRL could have handled it better - Roth could have been a great team owner with proper handling... however, Marty needs to face reality - he was never a great driver and perhaps if he and the IRL sat down he could run some ovals etc.

That being said - his point is valid - Duno has no business in the IRL and if they are parking Roth they should also park Duno.

[Easy Drifter]

I agree Marty should have packed it in and Milka too, but IRL handled it in a terrible way. In Marty's case it is not really age. He just wasn't that good at any time.
It was Eric Jensen not Dan. Eric's father is Bruce Jensen who was a pretty good Atlantic driver in the mid seventies when FA was the toughest series in NA.
Speaking of age anybody ever hear of Steve Kinser? He is still winning after 30 years in the WoO, the toughest sprint car circuit. He recently won his 500th A main. Nobody knows how many races he has won altogether. Very few drivers have even raced 500 times let alone won that many.
In Ont. region racing the 3/4 litre champion Bob Long, a cancer survivor, is in his 70's and turning laps in the 1.27 range at Mosport with a 750 cc car. He holds the class lap record.

[garyshell]

Can anyone say Fangio? Age is not the sole determining factor.

That is correct. The ability to keep pace IS the factor. Marty could not, and now he is whining that it is age discrimination. No, Marty, it is TALENT discrimination. He was in over his head all season, and before he ran over someonelse's head, ICS did the right thing... since he wouldn't do it himself.

Gary

[garyshell]

It sounds like both parties have some issues to resolve... The IRL could have handled it better - Roth could have been a great team owner with proper handling... however, Marty needs to face reality - he was never a great driver and perhaps if he and the IRL sat down he could run some ovals etc.

That being said - his point is valid - Duno has no business in the IRL and if they are parking Roth they should also park Duno.


At least Duno has actually shown both a desire to improve by hiring a coach and SOME (not a lot, mind you, but some) results from that effort. Marty did neither.

Gary

[Gluaistean]

There is much that I agree with on this topic and some that I see as hypocritical.

Marty was and is slow but what seems to be the main issue is how the IRL conducted themselves. These people that control the series' are not the ones putting their hands into their pockets to run a team. They do however issue a license to these drivers for them to compete.
Something I noticed which is quite blatant is the fact that Roth was not given a chance to test. He had no data for many races.
There seems to me to be a xenophobic side to much of what I see and hear from the IRL. Milka and Citgo get nothing with respect to TV space because of politics. Not just my opinion. VISO the same. Is Marty Roth getting this treatment too?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Duno isn't getting TV time because there is nothing compelling about watching someone 10 mph off the pace get lapped constantly. She gets her TV time when she gets out of the car after being black flagged or tearing up someone elses race car when she got in the way...AGAIN.

As for Roth not getting testing data....you have to be a sufficiently compentant driver to get that since you would be expected to do your share of the testing and that requires a budget and the competantcy of the driver to push hard enough for the data to be relevant....

[MDS]

If 30 is too old for Renault 50 should be too old for the IRL.

http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/87 ... ld'-for-F1 (http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/8710750/Briatore-says-Bourdais-'too-old'-for-F1)

[Gluaistean]

Duno isn't getting TV time because there is nothing compelling about watching someone 10 mph off the pace get lapped constantly. She gets her TV time when she gets out of the car after being black flagged or tearing up someone elses race car when she got in the way...AGAIN.

As for Roth not getting testing data....you have to be a sufficiently competent driver to get that since you would be expected to do your share of the testing and that requires a budget and the competency of the driver to push hard enough for the data to be relevant....

Amazing that I never thought of or considered any of those points. I must be sitting here in this delusional state thinking/believing that the series was absolutely chock block full of sponsors and there was no need whatsoever to show a car and sponsor that turned up to race on even though they may not be expected to do well but at least they are there and a major sponsor at that.

I must have been dreaming a couple of times this year also because as far as I can recall (old memory is slipping) the wondrous talent of Patrick running around in mid to back of the pack got on the air every race no matter what.

As for Roth and testing! He has the money (his own) and would benefit from a little more track time. Who knows what talent he may possess. I recall Carpenter being a back marker for many years. Now he is running at the front. Dare I say experience and talent?

Funny thing about racing sponsorship. It's all based upon exposure and the cost of that exposure. Investing 4 or 5 million a year on one car needs a lot of return on exposure. That is how the companies view this. There is no way any company would return to a team like Dreyer Reinbold (sic) if not for the fact that it is a government sponsored car. ABC,ESPN and ESPN2 do their damnedest to avoid showing two cars in particular. One of them they have to show because it always seems to run at the front. I'm speaking of Viso and his state sponsored car. Oh, the horror. I wonder why they go to such lengths to avoid showing particular cars? I wonder if it has anything to do with a certain president? Hmmmmm. Nae, couldn't be.

Oh well, Tony has his ball all to himself and is now going to slowly kill the goose that laid the proverbial egg.

postscript; I did not post this yesterday. I forgot to hit send. Silly me. But, as I watched the race from Australia last night a certain female brat caught my attention. She needs to be parked also if the same rules that applied to Roth are applied to her. Damn, she did not qualify on the track. Ran the first stint of the race from the back and had her usual spoiled child hissy fit when she a/ could not get around a crash in front of her when others had no problem. b/ when she stalled the car and c/when she did not get the preferred treatment from the safety team to restart her which she so richly deserves. After all, she being a back marker on road and street courses and not much better in top class equipment on ovals is entitled to the lavish and preferential treatment lauded upon the most popular female athlete in the US.
I mean hey, Sharpova plays tennis sparingly in the US. Mia Hamm is retired and who the others she beat in that supposed competition,well I don't know.