Raikkonen: Second was not good enough

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70392

No Kimi, you're not good enough.

I, for one, never want to see that lazy Finnish xxxx ever sit in a Ferrari again.

[markabilly]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70392

No Kimi, you're not good enough.

I, for one, never want to see that lazy Finnish xxxx ever sit in a Ferrari again.


Tough words. I think more of Kimi because he did not roll over and go for second. OTOH, the earlier races strike me that he did less than his best as demonstrated by turning fast laps at the end rather than the beginning, and perhaps lazy would describe some of those efforts, but today, he drove like a WDC instead of a back up to massa.

[janneppi]

Finishing second after Hamilton and being 15 points behind isn't really any better than 23 points at this point in the season, he had no choise but try and win the race at all cost. Can't fault him for that.

[ioan]

The part that I found interesting was this one:


He said, however, that he is only planning to win races.

"It is not up to me if he (Massa) wins or not," he said. "I will do the best I can do and we see what the situation is. I try to win races and we will see what happens."

Maybe Felipe should have rather thought about winning the Brazilian GP last season too.

Tough words. I think more of Kimi because he did not roll over and go for second. OTOH, the earlier races strike me that he did less than his best as demonstrated by turning fast laps at the end rather than the beginning, and perhaps lazy would describe some of those efforts, but today, he drove like a WDC instead of a back up to massa.

In my opinion, he did roll-over.

There is no way on earth that Michael Schumacher would have been so piss-poor. To think that there were people who thought he was actually better than Schumacher.

The sooner KR fecks off back to the artic circle the better.

[F1boat]

I only pity him. He is acting very stupid, he was beaten and humiliated. He speaks foolish words now, but he is confused and embarassed, I guess. I won'r kick him now - he brought a world championship to Ferrari last year and I prefer to remember that and not to kick him when he is fallen.

[Daika]

In my opinion, he did roll-over.

To think that there were people who thought he was actually better than Schumacher.



I contradict you on that point. I don't think anybody, men,women, childeren think that.

[markabilly]

Finishing second after Hamilton and being 15 points behind isn't really any better than 23 points at this point in the season, he had no choise but try and win the race at all cost. Can't fault him for that.


I fault him for being so far behind in the first place, and if he had driven like this all season long, then Hamilton would be the one scrambling to stay up.

As I said elsewhere, those last laps in some races where he does those fast lap of the race and stuff, reveal too much.

Like I said in some other post, only to be critcized heavy, is whether he suffers from some form of Attention deficit disorder, as his peformance tend to track the pattern of someone very talented, but needs the additional pressure to force him to focus harder. of course, a driver whose mind is wandering around like in a state of ADD, would never make it to F1 or so it should seem, but, nevertheless, talk about fitting the pattern for it....

[janneppi]

I fault him for being so far behind in the first place, and if he had driven like this all season long, then Hamilton would be the one scrambling to stay up.

.
Indeed, there is no excuse for not getting the car working like he wants, but that's not the case here really. This time he was prutty happy how the car behaved, but he risked too much in the end.

[F1boat]

It happens even to the best. IMO he must seriously think about what happens to him this year, to see whether he is still interested in F1 and if yes, to calm down, help Massa till the end of the year and try to do better in 2009. If no, to retire. He is a World Champion and fans will remember him as a great driver, there is no point of embarassing himself any longer in a sport he is not interested in.

[markabilly]

Indeed, there is no excuse for not getting the car working like he wants, but that's not the case here really. This time he was prutty happy how the car behaved, but he risked too much in the end.


To me it is more than that, when he is popping off fastest laps of the race at the end of the race, when the race is pretty much over. So I do not see how one can say it is merely a car issue, cause otherwise those fast laps would not be there.

Smart move by ferrari would have been to pit and he probably would have won, but that is hindsight. In those conditions, it was luck. Besides if he had settled for 2nd, most everyone and their dog (and cats) would be calling him a yellow belly dog-faced coward or worse, onstead of just "
lazy"

[pino]

He's right, 2nd was not good enough, he tried to win the race to stay in touch for the title but he made a mistake and had bad luck at same time. You can't condemn him for that...I certainly won't !

[markabilly]

I think Tamburello is more upset over the fact that he has no confidence in mass beating out LH for the title. I would not write off massa completely, but right now, there appears to be only two drivers with proven ability to go toe to toe with LH and his Mac over all the tracks for an entire season. One is Kimi and the other FA.

This race result might mean that unless LH has a number of non-finshes for the rest of the season, that LH and Mac will win it all.

[F1boat]

In Valencia Massa won over Lewis. It is not impossible for FM to win the championship.

[ioan]

I think Tamburello is more upset over the fact that he has no confidence in mass beating out LH for the title. I would not write off massa completely, but right now, there appears to be only two drivers with proven ability to go toe to toe with LH and his Mac over all the tracks for an entire season. One is Kimi and the other FA.

FA, right now? Based on what exactly?! Reading in the stars, maybe?

[markabilly]

FA, right now? Based on what exactly?! Reading in the stars, maybe?


No I am talking ability of the driver, not the combo of car and driver. In my opinion, Kim and Ferrai vs. LH and Mac, are the only two combos at the top of the heap, consistently over all tracks, that one can depend on.

massa and Ferrari is often something of a second place runner. There will have to be a dramactic and consistent improvement in Mass to win a wdc. Not impossible, but that is not yet something that one can depend on at this stage. Kimi OTOH, when he puts himself to it, is the faster driver. And perhaps explains tamburelo response about lazy.

No I am talking ability of the driver, not the combo of car and driver. In my opinion, Kim and Ferrai vs. LH and Mac, are the only two combos at the top of the heap, consistently over all tracks, that one can depend on.

massa and Ferrari is often something of a second place runner.

Nobody could depend on Kimi this year.

[Woodeye]

Unbelivable all this bashing. In this race Kimi showed again that he is fast. I've been reading about million posts in this forum about Kimi being slow, fat and lost his motivation. Well, what do you people say now? How slow is he again?

Ok, he did a mistake but everyone makes mistakes every now and then. Kimi has made too many mistakes this season and he has had his share of bad luck, but van someone say that he is not trying?

[jens]

Second place not good enough? Kimi has to recall last year, when he won the title thanks to consistency especially in the second half of the season and Hamilton lost the title due to the "P2 isn't good enough" attitude in China.

[Hondo]

Today, second would have got him first place.

[ioan]

I think he was exasperated to get win and bridge the gap to Massa, cause he is horrified when he thinks he will have to play the 2nd driver role from now on.

[markabilly]

Today, second would have got him first place.
no, the fia would have gotten it for him....

[markabilly]

I think he was exasperated to get win and bridge the gap to Massa, cause he is horrified when he thinks he will have to play the 2nd driver role from now on.
Which is an example of the pattern of ADD behavior from someone who is not paying enough attention until their back is against the wall....something some folks a few years ago used to call "lazy".......

[SGWilko]

their back is against the wall

I was born here in the city
With my back against the wall
Nothing grows, and life aint very pretty
No ones there to catch you when you fall.....

How very apt....

[CaptainRaiden]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70392

No Kimi, you're not good enough.

I, for one, never want to see that lazy Finnish xxxx ever sit in a Ferrari again.

Yeah right. I'd prefer 'Lazy' over 'shameless blatant cheater-7 time ****in champ' any day. Anyway was never a fan of Kimi joining that unethical piece of shyt red team. Most wins, most championships, blah blah blah? Whoop-de-effin-doo. That prancing horse can stuff all of that you know where.

Well, at least he did do in 2007 what the chin couldn't in 2006.

[markabilly]

I was born here in the city
With my back against the wall
Nothing grows, and life aint very pretty
No ones there to catch you when you fall.....

How very apt....


Actually i think the "the Wall" did catch him......

"all in all you are just another brick in the wall..."

[ioan]

Yeah right. I'd prefer 'Lazy' over 'shameless blatant cheater-7 time ****in champ' any day. Anyway was never a fan of Kimi joining that unethical piece of shyt red team. Most wins, most championships, blah blah blah? Whoop-de-effin-doo. That prancing horse can stuff all of that you know where.

Well, at least he did do in 2007 what the chin couldn't in 2006.

Yeah he did once what MS did 7 times, what an achievement! :laugh:
You seem sore, for whatever reason! :rotflmao:

[CaptainRaiden]

Yeah he did once what MS did 7 times, what an achievement! :laugh:
You seem sore, for whatever reason! :rotflmao:

That doesn't make sense Ioan. I'm talking about Kimi joining Ferrari which MS left at the end of 2006 after being beaten by Alonso, and Kimi winning the championship in 2007, his first year with the team. About the team 'Ferrari' specifically. I'm not talking about how many championships, how many wins, how long chin and all that accountant kinda crap. (Add the LOL smiley)

I'm proud of what Kimi did yesterday. He showed that he is a true racer and still has the hunger in him. He tried his best until the last moment, and unfortunately made a costly mistake, which was easy to do in that situation.

Anyday better than MS, who in a similar situation would have:

1. Tried to bang and take out Hamilton at every corner possible.
2. Park his car and his lapdog's car at a spot where everything would be blocked and the race would be red flagged.
3. Have a discussion with his team and the FIA after the race to penalize Hamilton for something stupid. (OH wait, that already did happen). *Add ROFL LOL smiley here.*

[wmcot]

That doesn't make sense Ioan. I'm talking about Kimi joining Ferrari which MS left at the end of 2006 after being beaten by Alonso, and Kimi winning the championship in 2007, his first year with the team. About the team 'Ferrari' specifically. I'm not talking about how many championships, how many wins, how long chin and all that accountant kinda crap. (Add the LOL smiley)

I'm proud of what Kimi did yesterday. He showed that he is a true racer and still has the hunger in him. He tried his best until the last moment, and unfortunately made a costly mistake, which was easy to do in that situation.

Anyday better than MS, who in a similar situation would have:

1. Tried to bang and take out Hamilton at every corner possible.
2. Park his car and his lapdog's car at a spot where everything would be blocked and the race would be red flagged.
3. Have a discussion with his team and the FIA after the race to penalize Hamilton for something stupid. (OH wait, that already did happen). *Add ROFL LOL smiley here.*

So I take it you're not a Ferrari fan? ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

So I take it you're not a Ferrari fan? ;)

Oh you nailed it! I guess I am not very good at keeping secrets. :p

[ioan]

Oh you nailed it! I guess I am not very good at keeping secrets. :p

We also know that you didn't like MS, to put it mildly, and as soon as Kimi will leave Ferrari you will have an axe to grind. :p :

[pino]

Back to the topic thank you :)

[SGWilko]

Back to the topic thank you :)

How did you know what choccy bar I was eating? That's scary!

[Garry Walker]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70392

No Kimi, you're not good enough.

I, for one, never want to see that lazy Finnish xxxx ever sit in a Ferrari again.

I, for one, never want to see any of your posts on this forum again.


It seems that there is a group of people for whom Kimi can do nothing right.
If he doesn`t test, he is lazy.
If he tests, he is taking valueable time because he understands nothing about cars.
If he settles for position and doesn`t attempt to overtake, he is called a cruiser and unmotivated.
If he goes for it 100% and has an accident, he is called an idiot.

But we all know who the true lazy idiots here are and it isn`t kimi.


Great racing yesterday from him - The McLaren was slightly faster even in dry, but he drove superbly. Of course, the hard tyre later on when it got wet didn`t work at all for the Ferraris, but at least he gave it his all and if Rosberg hadn`t idiotically driven so slowly, maybe he hadn`t crashed out. If he had settled for 2nd, the usual morons here would still be crying about how he is no true racer and how easily he gave up.

All in all, I only have good words for him based on yesterday. A True racer 100%.

[ShiftingGears]

Kimi races to win. Obviously I was very disappointed when he crashed out, because I would much rather have seen him win the race than either Hamilton or Massa. Massa only managed because he was driving so extremely tentatively - he wasn't racing anyone. The Ferrari is inferior in the wet, and seeing how much Hamilton was able to close in during braking highlighted it. I hope he can win again before the season is over.

[ArrowsFA1]

Great racing yesterday from him - The McLaren was slightly faster even in dry, but he drove superbly. Of course, the hard tyre later on when it got wet didn`t work at all for the Ferraris, but at least he gave it his all...
I'm not sure I'd agree that the McLaren was the faster car. From what I saw watching the sector times the McLaren & the Ferrari were very evenly matched over the whole lap in the dry. Hamilton was quicker in sector 1, but Kimi clawed that time back and often more in sector 2, while sector 3 was frequently a dead heat between the two of them.

I do agree that Kimi is getting unjustified criticism though. He was racing to win and that's what racers do. The last couple of laps were so unpredictable and frantic that errors were inevitable, and unfortunately for Kimi his was more costly than others.

[Garry Walker]

I'm not sure I'd agree that the McLaren was the faster car. From what I saw watching the sector times the McLaren & the Ferrari were very evenly matched over the whole lap in the dry. Hamilton was quicker in sector 1, but Kimi clawed that time back and often more in sector 2, while sector 3 was frequently a dead heat between the two of them.

I do agree that Kimi is getting unjustified criticism though. He was racing to win and that's what racers do. The last couple of laps were so unpredictable and frantic that errors were inevitable, and unfortunately for Kimi his was more costly than others.

I think the gap between McLaren and Ferrari was very small, but Kimi is a Spa expert and Hamilton still stayed easily within 1 second of him in the first stint.
McLaren had a small advantage in dry, but the moment it was wet, McLaren was much better.

[wedge]

I, for one, never want to see any of your posts on this forum again.


It seems that there is a group of people for whom Kimi can do nothing right.
If he doesn`t test, he is lazy.
If he tests, he is taking valueable time because he understands nothing about cars.
If he settles for position and doesn`t attempt to overtake, he is called a cruiser and unmotivated.
If he goes for it 100% and has an accident, he is called an idiot.

But we all know who the true lazy idiots here are and it isn`t kimi.


Great racing yesterday from him - The McLaren was slightly faster even in dry, but he drove superbly. Of course, the hard tyre later on when it got wet didn`t work at all for the Ferraris, but at least he gave it his all and if Rosberg hadn`t idiotically driven so slowly, maybe he hadn`t crashed out. If he had settled for 2nd, the usual morons here would still be crying about how he is no true racer and how easily he gave up.

All in all, I only have good words for him based on yesterday. A True racer 100%.

:up: :up:

[ioan]

Kimi has a history of losing because 2nd isn't good enough. Just take a look at how he lost the 2005 WDC in Nurburgring.

One should learn from his mistakes, rather sooner than later or never.

[Garry Walker]

Kimi has a history of losing because 2nd isn't good enough. Just take a look at how he lost the 2005 WDC in Nurburgring.

One should learn from his mistakes, rather sooner than later or never.

He lost the 2005 WDC there? That is news to me. I thought the engine failures had something to do with it all.

What people do not seemingly understand is that these people are racers.

I am 100% sure that Michael Schumacher in a similar situation as Kimi was in 2005 at Nurburgring, would have kept going too. Because he was a racer 100%. Just take a look at Spa 1995 and Hungary 2006. In one of them he came off a complete winner when he risked on dry tyres in wet, in the other, sure, in the end it didn`t turn out well, but at least he went for the maximum and easily he could have pulled out a great result. Or Senna at spa in 1992.

Someone like Barrichello or Button or Fisichella would have pitted and not risked, but maybe that is why they never have or will win titles.

Sometimes you just have to take risks. If Kimis car had stayed in piece for one more lap, everyone would have praised him. If he had pitted, everyone would have said, the guy is a cruiser, a true racer would have kept on going.
So it is a fine line between success and failure.
I will give you another example - Mika vs Michael at spa in 2000. Imagine if Zonta had moved a little to the right to give more room to Schumi and hit Mika. I can imagine certain people saying Mika was an idiot because he went for such a risky move.
People want to see racing and cry it is boring all the time. Now they have some guys really trying to race, taking risks and still it is bad, because one of them happened to make a mistake in difficult conditions.
Maybe you guys are watching the wrong sport, I recommend curling and figure skating.

[wedge]

One should learn from his mistakes, rather sooner than later or never.

Kimi was in a position to fight for the win.

Another way of looking at it is he needs to take points off Lewis, not give Lewis another 2pt advantage.

Anyway, don't you agree that hot-heads make entertaining races?

http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=526574&postcount=11

[ioan]

He lost the 2005 WDC there? That is news to me. I thought the engine failures had something to do with it all.

he couldn't control the engines from failing, but changing a wheel was at his discretion.
IMO he lost the Championship there and than, those 8 points he could have brought home would have been enough in the end, if I'm not mistaken.



I am 100% sure that Michael Schumacher in a similar situation as Kimi was in 2005 at Nurburgring, would have kept going too.

You say you are an MS fan, but this quote of yours clearly proves that you don't know him at all.
The MS of the Benetton era might have done it, but the Ferrari era MS would never have done that.

[jens]

I have noticed that Kimi's mistakes somehow always get more easily excused. Imagine if Massa or Hamilton had made the same mistake and binned into the wall - I don't want to imagine the bashing and gloating going on here...

If Massa had hit the wall, I'd imagine sentences like "I never thought he's WDC material and above average", "I told you he can't drive without TC and is useless in the rain".
Or Hamilton - "He always chokes under pressure and will never win a WDC."

I agree with those opinions that Kimi certainly didn't lack of motivation and fought hard - kudos to him for that. But another myth, which has existed for years, like he is an IceMan, who is extremely cool and never cracks under pressure, isn't simply true. And Hamilton managed those last laps simply better, however hard Kimi tried.

Finally, Alonso (who has often been suggested to become a future Ferrari driver) would have surely managed those last laps differently. He would have brought those secure 8 points home or gone for wets (like he actually did from P3 before the last lap).

[wedge]

You say you are an MS fan, but this quote of yours clearly proves that you don't know him at all.
The MS of the Benetton era might have done it, but the Ferrari era MS would never have done that.

Hungary 2006 - stayed out on worn inters which were next to useless when he should've pitted for new tyres, aggressively defends his position despite going backwards.

[Shalafi]

I have noticed that Kimi's mistakes somehow always get more easily excused. Imagine if Massa or Hamilton had made the same mistake and binned into the wall - I don't want to imagine the bashing and gloating going on here...

If Massa had hit the wall, I'd imagine sentences like "I never thought he's WDC material and above average", "I told you he can't drive without TC and is useless in the rain".
Or Hamilton - "He always chokes under pressure and will never win a WDC."

I agree with those opinions that Kimi certainly didn't lack of motivation and fought hard - kudos to him for that. But another myth, which has existed for years, like he is an IceMan, who is extremely cool and never cracks under pressure, isn't simply true. And Hamilton managed those last laps simply better, however hard Kimi tried.


And you seem to bash Kimi in every thread when you have a chance to do so...

Well, you cant say for Kimi that he wont never win a WDC, because he has won it. Massa and Hamilton have not, yet...

And that race was nothing to do with "cracking under pressure" (like LH last year). Ferrari just is much more difficult to drive in wet or colder conditions than McLaren, because of the difficulty to heat up the tires. Kimi tried to win, of course, he is a winner. But its amazing all this bashing because he did a fantastic race before the rain, was best driver and then when he tried to win and crashed out in extremely difficult conditions people bash him and you talk about how he cracks under pressure. Same people that have yelled that he lacks motivation. Sometimes these comments are absolutely ridiculous...

[Knock-on]

Kimi was superb at Spa I thought.

Took advantage of a Lewis mistake on lap 2 and took the lead like a racer.

I don't know if it was his new Chassis (BTW, has it passed FIA testing if it's a new Chassis) or that he was fired up with the prospect of being a support to Massa.

What I do know is that he drove a good race and only Lewis's ability in the rain made the difference.

Even the chicane incident was hard but fair racing that showed Kimi's do or die committment to maintain the lead.

Come on chaps. Credit where it's due.

[ShiftingGears]

What I do know is that he drove a good race and only Lewis's ability in the rain made the difference.


Of course that difference wouldn't have been significantly due to the fact that the McLaren heats its tyres better than the Ferrari, meaning that it's better in wet or cold conditions, would it?

[Knock-on]

Of course that difference wouldn't have been significantly due to the fact that the McLaren heats its tyres better than the Ferrari, meaning that it's better in wet or cold conditions, would it?

That's a bit like saying the only reason Kimi was ahead was because of the superiority of the Ferrari in the dry isn't it ;)

I think the McLaren does have an advantage in the wet on wet tyres or on a slightly damp track on slicks but the driver still needs to attack to keep heat there. If a dry tyre loses a fraction of heat, it becomes very difficult no matter what car it's on.

The amount of water on that track, it wouldn't make any difference if they were driving Moris Minors on the Bridgestones :D

[PolePosition_1]

In my opinion, he did roll-over.

There is no way on earth that Michael Schumacher would have been so piss-poor. To think that there were people who thought he was actually better than Schumacher.

The sooner KR fecks off back to the artic circle the better.

I remember Schumacher in similar circumstances in Hungary 2006 where he was all over the place trying to defend positions, even cutting chicanes to save positions. Though this obviously wasn't penalised.

I actually like what I saw of Kimi at Belgium. The man showed true determination and agression. His moves on Massa and Hamilton just showed no fear, he was prepared to do what was in his right, but he max'd out his rights. And it was nice to see a driver take such an attitude. Reminded me of Montoya in many ways.

[Knock-on]

I remember Schumacher in similar circumstances in Hungary 2006 where he was all over the place trying to defend positions, even cutting chicanes to save positions. Though this obviously wasn't penalised.

I actually like what I saw of Kimi at Belgium. The man showed true determination and agression. His moves on Massa and Hamilton just showed no fear, he was prepared to do what was in his right, but he max'd out his rights. And it was nice to see a driver take such an attitude. Reminded me of Montoya in many ways.

:up:

[PolePosition_1]

To me it is more than that, when he is popping off fastest laps of the race at the end of the race, when the race is pretty much over. So I do not see how one can say it is merely a car issue, cause otherwise those fast laps would not be there.

Smart move by ferrari would have been to pit and he probably would have won, but that is hindsight. In those conditions, it was luck. Besides if he had settled for 2nd, most everyone and their dog (and cats) would be calling him a yellow belly dog-faced coward or worse, onstead of just "
lazy"

Its a car issue of a short distance (i.e over 1-2 laps). Hence in race he is quick. Fastest laps come near end of races because as he has no 1-2 lap pace, he qualifies lowly and then is stuck in traffic for the first half of a race.

[PolePosition_1]

To me it is more than that, when he is popping off fastest laps of the race at the end of the race, when the race is pretty much over. So I do not see how one can say it is merely a car issue, cause otherwise those fast laps would not be there.

Smart move by ferrari would have been to pit and he probably would have won, but that is hindsight. In those conditions, it was luck. Besides if he had settled for 2nd, most everyone and their dog (and cats) would be calling him a yellow belly dog-faced coward or worse, onstead of just "
lazy"

Its a car issue of a short distance (i.e over 1-2 laps). Hence in race he is quick. Fastest laps come near end of races because as he has no 1-2 lap pace, he qualifies lowly and then is stuck in traffic for the first half of a race.

I

[PolePosition_1]

To me it is more than that, when he is popping off fastest laps of the race at the end of the race, when the race is pretty much over. So I do not see how one can say it is merely a car issue, cause otherwise those fast laps would not be there.

Smart move by ferrari would have been to pit and he probably would have won, but that is hindsight. In those conditions, it was luck. Besides if he had settled for 2nd, most everyone and their dog (and cats) would be calling him a yellow belly dog-faced coward or worse, onstead of just "
lazy"

Its a car issue of a short distance (i.e over 1-2 laps). Hence in race he is quick. Fastest laps come near end of races because as he has no 1-2 lap pace, he qualifies lowly and then is stuck in traffic for the first half of a race.

I read

[PolePosition_1]

To me it is more than that, when he is popping off fastest laps of the race at the end of the race, when the race is pretty much over. So I do not see how one can say it is merely a car issue, cause otherwise those fast laps would not be there.

Smart move by ferrari would have been to pit and he probably would have won, but that is hindsight. In those conditions, it was luck. Besides if he had settled for 2nd, most everyone and their dog (and cats) would be calling him a yellow belly dog-faced coward or worse, onstead of just "
lazy"

Its a car issue of a short distance (i.e over 1-2 laps). Hence in race he is quick. Fastest laps come near end of races because as he has no 1-2 lap pace, he qualifies lowly and then is stuck in traffic for the first half of a race.

I read somewhere

[PolePosition_1]

To me it is more than that, when he is popping off fastest laps of the race at the end of the race, when the race is pretty much over. So I do not see how one can say it is merely a car issue, cause otherwise those fast laps would not be there.

Smart move by ferrari would have been to pit and he probably would have won, but that is hindsight. In those conditions, it was luck. Besides if he had settled for 2nd, most everyone and their dog (and cats) would be calling him a yellow belly dog-faced coward or worse, onstead of just "
lazy"

Its a car issue of a short distance (i.e over 1-2 laps). Hence in race he is quick. Fastest laps come near end of races because as he has no 1-2 lap pace, he qualifies lowly and then is stuck in traffic for the first half of a race.

I read somewhere it

[PolePosition_1]

To me it is more than that, when he is popping off fastest laps of the race at the end of the race, when the race is pretty much over. So I do not see how one can say it is merely a car issue, cause otherwise those fast laps would not be there.

Smart move by ferrari would have been to pit and he probably would have won, but that is hindsight. In those conditions, it was luck. Besides if he had settled for 2nd, most everyone and their dog (and cats) would be calling him a yellow belly dog-faced coward or worse, onstead of just "
lazy"

Its a car issue of a short distance (i.e over 1-2 laps). Hence in race he is quick. Fastest laps come near end of races because as he has no 1-2 lap pace, he qualifies lowly and then is stuck in traffic for the first half of a race.

I read somewhere it was a

[PolePosition_1]

To me it is more than that, when he is popping off fastest laps of the race at the end of the race, when the race is pretty much over. So I do not see how one can say it is merely a car issue, cause otherwise those fast laps would not be there.

Smart move by ferrari would have been to pit and he probably would have won, but that is hindsight. In those conditions, it was luck. Besides if he had settled for 2nd, most everyone and their dog (and cats) would be calling him a yellow belly dog-faced coward or worse, onstead of just "
lazy"

Its a car issue of a short distance (i.e over 1-2 laps). Hence in race he is quick. Fastest laps come near end of races because as he has no 1-2 lap pace, he qualifies lowly and then is stuck in traffic for the first half of a race.

I read somewhere it was a brakes

[Knock-on]

Its a car issue of a short distance (i.e over 1-2 laps). Hence in race he is quick. Fastest laps come near end of races because as he has no 1-2 lap pace, he qualifies lowly and then is stuck in traffic for the first half of a race.

I read somewhere it was a brakes


Quite a stutter you have there PP ;)

[jens]

And that race was nothing to do with "cracking under pressure" (like LH last year). Ferrari just is much more difficult to drive in wet or colder conditions than McLaren, because of the difficulty to heat up the tires. Kimi tried to win, of course, he is a winner. But its amazing all this bashing because he did a fantastic race before the rain, was best driver and then when he tried to win and crashed out in extremely difficult conditions people bash him and you talk about how he cracks under pressure. Same people that have yelled that he lacks motivation. Sometimes these comments are absolutely ridiculous...

What I meant with "cracking under pressure" is that he let the emotions get the better of him in the decisive moments. You may desperately want to win, but even in this situation it's needed to feel the limits of the car. Don't remember any other driver ending the race in the wall.

If a safety car hands a Force India driver race lead and he tries to keep the pace of a top car, which has just passed him and does mistakes in the process, everyone would say that he cracked under pressure. Imagine what folks had said if Piquet had spun in Germany after Hamilton had passed him?

And I don't argue with this that Kimi drove a fantastic race before the rain.

In an answer to you - yes, I bash him at every opportunity. ;)

[Firstgear]

I would be interested in hearing the radio communications in the laps prior to Kimi going off. Was Kimi told to keep Lewis behind at all costs? Was he told Lewis was flying in the wet conditions and likely to pass, so "bring it home safely for 8 points", but ignored that message? Was there no communication/advise/strategy at all? No communication wouldn't be too surprising, seeing as Kimi doesn't seem to be much of a talker.

[ShiftingGears]

That's a bit like saying the only reason Kimi was ahead was because of the superiority of the Ferrari in the dry isn't it ;)


No, that would be like what you were saying, considering you said that it was only Hamilton's ability.

[Garry Walker]

he couldn't control the engines from failing, but changing a wheel was at his discretion.
IMO he lost the Championship there and than, those 8 points he could have brought home would have been enough in the end, if I'm not mistaken.
The gap was over 21 points at the end, so those 8 points would have been irrelevant.



You say you are an MS fan, but this quote of yours clearly proves that you don't know him at all.
The MS of the Benetton era might have done it, but the Ferrari era MS would never have done that.Well, I became MS fan during the Benetton time. But even during Ferrari times he showed how far he will push the issue, just look at the hungarian GP in 2006.

[ioan]

The gap was over 21 points at the end, so those 8 points would have been irrelevant.

Well, I became MS fan during the Benetton time. But even during Ferrari times he showed how far he will push the issue, just look at the hungarian GP in 2006.

His DNF in the 2006 Hungarian GP is due to contact with PDLR rather than him having a failure because of a misjudged flat tire.

[Garry Walker]

His DNF in the 2006 Hungarian GP is due to contact with PDLR rather than him having a failure because of a misjudged flat tire.

It was against Heidfeld, not pdlr. But still, he was so much slower on those destroyed inters than others on drys, but he kept fighting for 1 or 2 more points instead of pitting for safe points. That is the "racer" thing to do and I am quite happy he displayed such character even at the end of his career. Kimi took the same approach, circumstances a little different, but the point the same.