Stewards to probe Hamilton, Raikkonen clash

[ArrowsFA1]

The Belgian Grand Prix stewards cast doubt over the result of the race after announcing an incident between Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Raikkonen was under investigation.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70381

[gloomyDAY]

Why? They were bloody racing.

Neither should be penalized.

[ioan]

There should be no penalty, he gave back the position he gained by shortcutting the chicane and than it was game on.

[ArrowsFA1]

Let's hope that's how the stewards see it.

[wedge]

There should be no penalty, he gave back the position he gained by shortcutting the chicane and than it was game on.

Wait a minute, did I just read that right?

:D

[gloomyDAY]

Wait a minute, did I just read that right?

:D lol

I had the same reaction.

[Robinho]

There should be no penalty, he gave back the position he gained by shortcutting the chicane and than it was game on.

thats how it looked to me, and then they continued to go wheel to wheel for the rest of the lap - 2 into 1 wouldn't go in the chocane and Leiws had to avoid, and gave the spot right back - it was a bit sneaky to then jam it stright back up the inside - i think the investigation will be if the cutting the corner he gave himself a better chance of the overtake into la source

it would be a tough to give a penalty

[Ranger]

There should be no penalty, he gave back the position he gained by shortcutting the chicane and than it was game on.

The issue, as ever, is inconsistency. Remember Japan '05?

Alonso passed Klien down the front straight in the same way, pulled out a lead of 5 seconds, and was told to slow down because he apparently didn't let Klien past properly. So he had to back off by five seconds to re-address that (he was fighting a McLaren and Klien was bog slow that day which made it worse).

Nonetheless I don't expect a penalty here.

The issue, as ever, is inconsistency. Remember Japan '05?

Alonso passed Klien down the front straight in the same way, pulled out a lead of 5 seconds, and was told to slow down because he apparently didn't let Klien past properly. So he had to back off by five seconds to re-address that (he was fighting a McLaren and Klien was bog slow that day which made it worse).

So surely those who were demanding consistency from race stewards will be doing the same now?

Arrows? Time to step up to the plate!

Personally,I thought the point was not to gain an advantage...

"So I let him past, then got in his tow and he was ducking and diving left and right but I managed to get past him and I was pretty much gone from there."

The "got in his tow" bit could be an advantage. Certainly more so than Alonso having to back off 5 seconds.

[Knock-on]

Lewes came round the outside of the fist corner and had the inside line coming into the next.

Kimi squeezed and Lewis had to cut the chicane to avoid an accident.

Lewis came out slightly ahead but McLaren radioed to let Kimi take it back which Lewis did.

This gave position and momentum to Kimi who was ahead at the line.

Lewis was so much quicker that he still easily took him at the next corner and despite getting a tap from Kimi, pulled away.

McLaren checked with Charlie W whether they had complied with the regulations and he confirmed that from a FIA opinion, they had.

Can't think of anything else?

[ioan]

The issue, as ever, is inconsistency. Remember Japan '05?

Alonso passed Klien down the front straight in the same way, pulled out a lead of 5 seconds, and was told to slow down because he apparently didn't let Klien past properly. So he had to back off by five seconds to re-address that (he was fighting a McLaren and Klien was bog slow that day which made it worse).

I don't see the problem there! :confused:

Alonso should have given the place back on that very moment, not doing so cost him 5 seconds. Looks to me like a brain fart from FA and Renault.

[christophulus]

I can't see any advantage. If Raikkonen hadn't squeezed him out there would be no need for Hamilton to cut the corner.

Completely fair move by both drivers so a penalty would be harsh

[wedge]

So surely those who were demanding consistency from race stewards will be doing the same now?

Arrows? Time to step up to the plate!

Personally,I thought the point was not to gain an advantage...

"So I let him past, then got in his tow and he was ducking and diving left and right but I managed to get past him and I was pretty much gone from there."

The "got in his tow" bit could be an advantage. Certainly more so than Alonso having to back off 5 seconds.

But that was a harsh call from the stewards on that occasion. Similar thing happens often at the first chicane at Monza and nothing done about it.

[truefan72]

I agree with everyone's comments.

There is really nothing for the stewards to look at.

Let's hope the fIa don't mess up what was an exciting race.

[ioan]

So surely those who were demanding consistency from race stewards will be doing the same now?

Arrows? Time to step up to the plate!

Personally,I thought the point was not to gain an advantage...

"So I let him past, then got in his tow and he was ducking and diving left and right but I managed to get past him and I was pretty much gone from there."

The "got in his tow" bit could be an advantage. Certainly more so than Alonso having to back off 5 seconds.

I disagree, he was right behind or even along Kimi when they touched, so giving the position back was all he had to do and he did so.

From a championship POV I would have loved Massa to make up ground, but on the track not as a result of some wrong decision.

[ShiftingGears]

I don't see the problem there! :confused:

Alonso should have given the place back on that very moment, not doing so cost him 5 seconds. Looks to me like a brain fart from FA and Renault.

He did give the place back at that very moment, before repassing him moments later, then being told he had to forfeit 5 seconds.

[Ranger]

Alonso should have given the place back on that very moment

That's the point. HE DID. ...just like Hamilton did today. But Alonso was told to do it again and lost a lot of time.

You can blame Mr. Ecclestone for my lack of video footage which is pretty much video proof for what I just said.

[ioan]

thats how it looked to me, and then they continued to go wheel to wheel for the rest of the lap - 2 into 1 wouldn't go in the chocane and Leiws had to avoid, and gave the spot right back - it was a bit sneaky to then jam it stright back up the inside - i think the investigation will be if the cutting the corner he gave himself a better chance of the overtake into la source

it would be a tough to give a penalty

By giving the position back to Kimi, Hamilton negated any advantage he won by cutting the chicane, and even lost some more speed compared to Kimi (well he had to be slower in order for the Ferrari to pass him!).

There is nothing to be seen here, Hamilton won it fair and square.

[harsha]

are my eyes deceiving me :cheese:

anyway both of them fought fair and hard...good on Hamilton,Tough on Raikkonen

[ioan]

That's the point. HE DID. ...just like Hamilton did today. But he was told to do it again and lost a lot of time.

You can blame Mr. Ecclestone for my lack of video footage which is pretty much video proof for what I just said.

I see what you mean.

If I remember it rightly Alonso was further down the road compared to Klien than Hamilton was compared to Kimi.

In order to restorate the situation to what it was before FA cut the chicane, he should have done more than tuck behind Klien for a fraction of a second.

[ArrowsFA1]

Personally,I thought the point was not to gain an advantage...


By giving the position back to Kimi, Hamilton negated any advantage he won by cutting the chicane...

Had he not given the place back Hamilton would probably have been penalised, but he did give the place back. And that is all he had to do.

Had he not given the place back Hamilton would probably have been penalised, but he did give the place back. And that is all he had to do.

We shall see. That he was still able to get a tow, when that would have been unlikely had he not cut the chicane, might suggest otherwise.

[ioan]

Had he not given the place back Hamilton would probably have been penalised, but he did give the place back. And that is all he had to do.

That's exactly what I said! :confused:

[veeten]

The main thing that negates all of this is that at the very next turn, Kimi spins out and gives the lead right back to Lewis.

It's a hard thing to judge, especially when events on track, not of your or anyone's control, changes the outcome of any perceived infraction.

Lewis did the right thing in giving up the position when cutting short the chicane. The unforseen circumstance of Kimi's spin should not be taken out of the turns of events just to justify a bad attempt at righting a poorly conjectured wrong.

[Knock-on]

That's exactly what I said! :confused:

I think Arrows is agreeing with you ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

That's exactly what I said! :confused:
Indeed. Your point that no advantage was gained was well made :up:

Once Hamilton had given the place back it was race on again.

[PSfan]

Well, I think we are once again entering a very grey area. Had there been a wall next to the track, Hamilton would have been forced to either lift or take out Kimi, had he lifted he would have probably lost a second, so slotting back in right under Kimi's rear wing was still gaining over the alternatives. Normally I would think that thanks to MacLerans recent history they wouldn't be winning to many grey issue arguments with the FIA, but at the same token, at the same time I can't see the FIA taking away a win, or even applying any sort of penalty over something as trivial as Hamilton not conceding enough space.

However, from listening to TSN's Donaldson, it sounded like Ferrari where gonna protest something, and so far everyone is assuming its this incident.

[Mifune]

I think at this stage it would be extremely unhealthy to penalize either driver in this situation, I think most would agree the final laps of spa were the most exciting for some time, so I sincerely hope the stewards don't penalize good racing.

[ArrowsFA1]

However, from listening to TSN's Donaldson, it sounded like Ferrari where gonna protest something, and so far everyone is assuming its this incident.
Yes, that assumption was made in Ron Dennis's interview on ITV. He said he didn't know what the investigation was about but from what he was saying McLaren assume it was the chicane incident. The Autosport report does the same while saying "an incident".Perhaps it's something else :dozey:

[markabilly]

Necessity, justice, fair play and bernie's pocketbook, all demand that Hamilton being stripped of the win. Otherwise kimi will never catch up with LH and people will stop watching, revenues go down......and please massa is too inconsistent to depend on him to give Hamilton a fight for the wdc....OTOH, the last thing bernie wants is another Kimi WDC, so it will be a tough call, to be sure..........

Sad thing is that once again we need rain to make the race interesting

Perhaps it's something else :dozey:

http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=93787

Don't know how reliable that is.

[jens]

There should be no penalty, he gave back the position he gained by shortcutting the chicane and than it was game on.

If even ioan is at McLaren's and Hamilton's side in some issue, then it's clear there is nothing to be penalized. :)

[Knock-on]

Looks like Ferrari are going for a win in the courts if they cant do it on the track.

Sounds familiar ;)

[MrJan]

When Ioan says that something Lewis did was fair then there really shouldn't be any doubt :D

[markabilly]

All kidding aside, given the rain conditions, I did not see anything that one can penalize LH for either.

Now if it had been a dry track and the stuff went on, then just maybe there would be some grounds for fussing.

But it were not a dry track and no one could take the chance to change tires, although if Kimi had, perhaps he might have won, as it seemd that one driver who did, made some dramactic time and then some.

All drivers realize that there is a little or a lot of luck involved in winning and a race esp under these conditions, and there but for the grace of God, that could just as easily been LH in the wall instead of Kimi.

[F1boat]

Hamilton won this brilliantly. He should keep his victory, both drivers deserve no punishment.

[PSfan]

http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=93787

Don't know how reliable that is.

Paddock talk... normally I would wait for a more reliable sorce, however, this supports my gut feeling that Ferrari would protest a close call...


Looks like Ferrari are going for a win in the courts if they cant do it on the track.

Sounds familiar

Yah, and normally I would agree with the point I think your making, but I gotta give Ferrari credit for stepping up and making a formal protest instead of the sneaking around in the shadows the Macleran way like in Australia 2007 and asking FIA for a clarification and then getting a little pissy when Ferrari isn't dq'd

[Bradley]

http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=93787


While the stewards are probing the Bus Stop chicane and La Source incident, it is believed Ferrari have also taken exception to a separate element of Hamilton's racing tactics.

That could be about Hamiltons 4 line changes (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129297) after eau rouge.

[VkmSpouge]

Hamilton has been given a 25 second penalty for cutting the chicane. Felipe Massa wins the race, Nick Heidfeld takes second, Hamilton down to third.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70401

[ioan]

Alonso doesn't get a podium?!

[Daniel]

Looks like Ferrari are going for a win in the courts if they cant do it on the track.

Sounds familiar ;)

Give it a rest.....

[keysersoze]

It seemed like Kimi forced Lewis off at the exit of the Bus Stop, but in the replay (and I only got one look) both locked up on the initial right-hander and Kimi had the steering wheel locked to the right even as his car gobbled up all the road at the exit.

[pickup]

What a complete farce! 25 seconds for that, he let Raikonen back through so he negated any advantage he had gained by avoiding an accident what else could he have done?
I didn't see Massa receiving any penalties after nearly causing a nasty incident in the pit lane at the last GP even though similar events in the GP2 races had incurred the wrath of the stewards, just seems like another case of Ferrari favouritism to me.

[pino]

Please let's continue this Here (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129303)