SILVERSTONE 2008 Rounds 25, 26 & 27.

[VX_Rules]

Ok boys (and possibly some girls?) Lets be more friendly this time as we're at the home of British Motorsport. :)

Session 1: Neal on top, Turner out in a cloud of smoke.

Now going to find more info.

Surprised Neal is quickest at the moment. I dont think the conditions are too ideal right now though.

[Allyc85]

1. Matt Neal VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 00.518secs M
2. Jason Plato SEAT Sport UK SEAT Leon TDi 1min 00.553secs M
3. Fabrizio Giovanardi VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 00.568secs M
4. Colin Turkington Team RAC BMW 320si 1min 00.729secsI
5. Mat Jackson BMW Dealer Team UK BMW 320si 1min 00.750secs I
6. Tom Onslow-Cole VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 00.770secs M
7. Darren Turner SEAT Sport UK SEAT Leon TDi 1min 00.815secs M
8. Gordon Shedden Team Halfords Honda Civic 1min 00.863secs
9. Tom Chilton Team Halfords Honda Civic 1min 00.942secs
10. Andrew Jordan John Guest Racing Honda Integra 1min 01.035secs I B
11. Rob Collard Motorbase Performance BMW 320si 1min 01.053secs I
12. Steven Kane Motorbase Performance BMW 320si 1min 01.117secs I
13. Stephen Jelley Team RAC BMW 320si 1min 01.128secs I
14. Adam Jones Team Aircool SEAT Leon 1min 01.206secs I
15. Harry Vaulkhard Robertshaw Racing Chevrolet Lacetti 1min 01.230secs I
16. Mike Jordan John Guest Racing Honda Integra 1min 01.487secs I B
17. Jason Hughes Kartworld Racing MG ZS 1min 01.695secs I B
18. Michael Doyle InTune Racing Honda Civic Type-R 1min 01.838secs I B
19. Chris Stockton BTC Racing SEAT Toledo 1min 01.852secs I
20. John George TH Motorsport Racing with JAG Honda Integra 1min 01.906secs I B
21. Martyn Bell Arkas Racing with Sunshine.co.uk Vauxhall Astra 1min 02.501secs I B
22. Erkut Kizilirmak Arkas Racing with Sunshine.co.uk Vauxhall Astra 1min 03.445secs I B
23. Alan Taylor Robertshaw Racing Honda Integra No time I B

:)

[SEATFreak]

Is that Free Practice 1 astra?

EDIT: Course it is. I have just seen VX's post.

[VX_Rules]

Why thankyou. I would have thought OC would have been quicker as he has not ballast out of the Vauxhalls, maybe he'll speed up later. Turners performance also looks dissapointing.

According to BTCC.net, Neal also had an engine failure. Rarity for the VXRs.

Moans at the lack of grip, interesting as weather tommorrow is forecasted as storms...

Next session at 1245, and Quali at 1500.

[Allyc85]

it is indeed Seatfreak :)

[VX_Rules]

Onslow Coles not even out yet :(

[Allyc85]

free practice 2:

1. Jason Plato SEAT Sport UK SEAT Leon TDi 1min 00.543secs M
2. Darren Turner SEAT Sport UK SEAT Leon TDi 1min 00.729secs M
3. Tom Chilton Team Halfords Honda Civic 1min 00.761secs
4. Colin Turkington Team RAC BMW 320si 1min 00.816secsI
5. Mat Jackson BMW Dealer Team UK BMW 320si 1min 00.965secs I
6. Fabrizio Giovanardi VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 00.967secs M
7. Matt Neal VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 00.975secs M
8. Gordon Shedden Team Halfords Honda Civic 1min 00.992secs
9. Harry Vaulkhard Robertshaw Racing Chevrolet Lacetti 1min 01.083secs I
10. Stephen Jelley Team RAC BMW 320si 1min 01.131secs I
11. Andrew Jordan John Guest Racing Honda Integra 1min 01.359secs I B
12. Tom Onslow-Cole VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 01.416secs M
13. Steven Kane Motorbase Performance BMW 320si 1min 01.419secs I
14. Adam Jones Team Aircool SEAT Leon 1min 01.571secs I
15. Rob Collard Motorbase Performance BMW 320si 1min 01.678secs I
16. Mike Jordan John Guest Racing Honda Integra 1min 01.680secs I B
17. John George TH Motorsport Racing with JAG Honda Integra 1min 01.732secs I B
18. Jason Hughes Kartworld Racing MG ZS 1min 01.968secs I B
19. Chris Stockton BTC Racing SEAT Toledo 1min 01.969secs I
20. Michael Doyle InTune Racing Honda Civic Type-R 1min 01.986secs I B
21. Martyn Bell Arkas Racing with Sunshine.co.uk Vauxhall Astra 1min 02.455secs I B
22. Erkut Kizilirmak Arkas Racing with Sunshine.co.uk Vauxhall Astra 1min 02.639secs I B
23. Alan Taylor Robertshaw Racing Honda Integra 1min 04.992secs I B

[SEATFreak]

Conditions good acording to TSL. Bring with a temp. of 23.6 Degrees C. The track is dry at 72 Degrees. Jase has set the fastest time so far with 1:00.327 in qualifying with a speed of near 98mph. A gap of 0.286 over Turks (1:00.613). But Jase is not out and hasn't been for a bit.

[VX_Rules]

I think TSL's conditions are alightly out, 72deg for track temp is believable, but 50deg C for air temp isnt :P

[stevevxr]

Well done to SEAT again, front row lock out..

Tom-oc vxr driver of the day !!! Gio as lost alot of pace since this morming ??? so have the honda'S ????

Looking good for a cracking days racing....

VAUXHALL TO WIN A TITLE TOMORROW.....

[VX_Rules]

Yeah, Seats 4th round of lock outs, SEATFreak, please tell me now that the field is not level!

Yeah it's all gone a bit topsy turvy, Gio in 11th and Jelley and Vaulkhard well into the top 10. Well done on them, a bit odd though.

As tommorrow will be wet, it shall make some good telly/viewing watching Gio make his way up the grid! cant wait.

To Plato: Tip: Try not to spin off on you out lap tommorrow mate.

[VkmSpouge]

Qualifying Times
1. Jason Plato SEAT 60.327
2. Darren Turner SEAT 60.471
3. Colin Turkington BMW 60.613
4. Tom Onslow-Cole Vauxhall 60.695
5. Matt Neal Vauxhall 60.843
6. Steven Kane BMW 61.000
7. Stephen Jelley BMW 61.007
8. Harry Vaulkhard Chevrolet 61.039
9. Tom Chilton Honda 61.135
10. Andrew Jordan Honda 61.158
11. Fabrizio Giovanardi Vauxhall 61.200
12. Adam Jones SEAT 61.280
13. Mike Jordan Honda 61.354
14. Mat Jackson BMW 61.361
15. Gordon Shedden Honda 61.378
16. Rob Collard BMW 61.389
17. John George Honda 61.826
18. Michael Doyle Honda 62.011
19. Jason Hughes MG 62.016
20. Chris Stockton SEAT 62.135
21. Martyn Bell Vauxhall 62.436
22. Erkut Kizilirmak Vauxhall 62.460
23. Alan Taylor Honda 63.378

Can't say I'm shocked to see yet another SEAT front row lock out. I hope something is going to get changed for next season.
Colin Turkington the fastest non-diesel. Good qualifying by Steven Kane. Harry Vaulkhard clearly the star of qualifying today in 8th place. Stephen Jelley will be pleased with 7th. Fabrizio Giovanardi, Mat Jackson and Gordon Shedden not doing well at all.
Nice to see Erkut Kizilirmak back! :D

[MBailey06]

How is the Jelley/Vaulkhard situation odd? They haven't been that high during the season, but the times they have set over this weekend means they should be as high as that. Also with the weight he has, I'm not surprised that Gio is that far down. Also I hope it doesn't rain since I am going. Anyway, Turks is up there so could easily beat the SEATs off the line, so don't worry about SEAT running away with it just yet.

[VX_Rules]

I dont think SEAT will run away with it, they are yet to perform in the wet. I'm going tommorrow, but a bit of rain never hurt anyway and it's alot more fun to watch. Some real driver skill comes into play. Its not odd them being there too much, but it's odd the people that they are in place off, like Shedden and Jackson for example. Not your typical grid layout.

[stevevxr]

Gio as lost grip and chassis inbalance since the 1st morning session.

Think turks will give the SEAT's a run for there money tomorrow.. SEAT need to be on top there game tomorrow with the running of the car and tactic's. Its do or die tomorrow...

VX RULES have a good day tomorrow!!

ROLL ON TOMORROW.........EXCITING STUFF :)

[stevevxr]

http://www.btcc.net/images/gallery/lg_4064_77ca.jpg

COME ON BOYS !!!!

[SEATFreak]

Yeah, Seats 4th round of lock outs, SEATFreak, please tell me now that the field is not level!

Gee, I guess you may have had something after all. I mean 5 wins out of the 9 we have had in this second half (from Snetterton) of the season is quite something. I guess the TDi's have made the balance of power more level between them and VXR.

Your not as daft as you look.

[VkmSpouge]

How is the Jelley/Vaulkhard situation odd? They haven't been that high during the season

That's why it's odd, well done to both Vaulkhard and Jelley.

[Iain]

Fabrizio Giovanardi, Mat Jackson and Gordon Shedden not doing well at all.


Shedden had an engine change before qualifying which meant he started late and then had a minor off during the session too. It's that close though, one wrong corner on your fast lap and you're in a very different position to where you expect to be.

Good to see Stephen Jelley's best performance of the season. :)

[SEATFreak]

Shedden had an engine change before qualifying which meant he started late and then had a minor off during the session too.

That is now 3 teams who have incured a 10-pt engine change penalty. Team Dynamics, Team Air Cool and Team Eurotech.

Speaking of Team Air Cool, not enough attention for me is being paid to the 3-way race for the Independents title. Turks leads currently with 256pts, with Jackson on 238pts and Jones on 219pts. But I think whilt I am confident Turks looks all but high and dry from Jones I think Jackson will run him all the way and Silverstone may be crucial for both. But Turks has gone on an amazong run of points what with 40pts from three consecutive meetings (Thruxton, Croft and Snetterton) and 38pts from Oulton Park so I think with maybe one more stong meeting where Turks gets say 30pts (which will take his tally to 296pts) surely that will put him in a very strong position going into Brands Hatch for the season finale.

[SEATFreak]

Race 1 well under way and Jase and DT currently lead from Jackson and Giovanardi in a dissapointing 4th. The time for Jase is 1:08.529.

[cos]

Didn't realise Andy Neate was so close to racing for Robertshaw this weekend! Doyle must be gutted after being punted out of the top 10 by Collard :(

[BDunnell]

Has to be looking good for Collard in race three. I'm sure he'll beat Mike Jordan off the line.

[ATF]

Good win by Gio in race 2, I'm happy to see him racing "properly" again instead of being too tentative. Don't know what DT was complaining about though - if he showed a bit more aggression, he might not always get knocked off the track.

And Gio's interview with Ted Kravitz was a bit cringeworthy! Don't think it's the most professional interviewing technique saying - "Go on, explain yourself!"

[BDunnell]

And Gio's interview with Ted Kravitz was a bit cringeworthy! Don't think it's the most professional interviewing technique saying - "Go on, explain yourself!"

Agreed.

Can someone tell me who the other person is in Matt Jackson's car? He always refers to 'we' when I think he should be saying I He constantly uses We instead of I and constantly refers to himself in the plural....

Very odd use of English

TP

[stevevxr]

http://www.btcc.net/images/gallery/lg_4081_d829.jpg

Cracking days work again by VXR.... well done to matt jackson, adam jones, colin turkington...

SEAT let themselves down again... think they need to do some serious reorganising for next year...

MY drivers of the day Adam jones, Matt Jackson and Giovanardi

Roll on Brands Hatch

[Mark]

No not really. It is quite common in motorsport. Because it is not just the driver who wins races but the efforts of the entire team and he is acknowledging as much when he talks.

No not really. It is quite common in motorsport. Because it is not just the driver who wins races but the efforts of the entire team and he is acknowledging as much when he talks.

But he makes statements like 'we went in to this corner too deep' so obviously he must have a co-driver, may be if he left the co-driver behind he might win a few more races.

And they say French is hard to understand!

TP

[Matty]

Well done to Mat Jackson and another weekend with quality drives, shame about the 2nd race, and also well done to Micky Doyle, unfortuantely knocked off whilst running well in race 2, made up for it with a quality 8th place finish in race 3.

Well Done guys.

[VkmSpouge]

Mat Jackson was excellent in today's races. Race two for him was bad but his race one and three were superb and took a much deserved victory.
Michael Doyle was absolutely awesome in race three, he beat both Team Dynamics Civics and all the Integras to be the first Honda home! I hope he can get a newer car for 2009.
The SEATs really struggled in races two and three, what was happening with them? They seemed to start off fine but then their pace just seemed to disappear.
Fabrizio Giovanardi could basically fall over the finishing line at Brands Hatch and still win the title.

[MBailey06]

As far as I know, the reason for Plato's lack of pace was tyre wear from about half distance onwards, and the car couldn't cope with it.

[RED VXR]

Mat Jackson was excellent in today's races. Race two for him was bad but his race one and three were superb and took a much deserved victory.
Michael Doyle was absolutely awesome in race three, he beat both Team Dynamics Civics and all the Integras to be the first Honda home! I hope he can get a newer car for 2009.
The SEATs really struggled in races two and three, what was happening with them? They seemed to start off fine but then their pace just seemed to disappear.
Fabrizio Giovanardi could basically fall over the finishing line at Brands Hatch and still win the title.

What an inspired drive by Michael Doyle in race 3.Just thinking what may of been if collard had not punted him of in race 2 when he was inside the top 10. It may of been him on pole for race 3, we will never no. The team worked flat out and what a way to re-pay them with a 8th. Good luck at brands.

[Iain]

One of the drives of the weekend for me was Stephen Jelley in race 3. Started at the back, had an incident and then came back to finish 10th - all with a shoulder that had been dislocated in race 2 (which he then put back into place himself.... :s ).

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Adam Jones had another good day. In race 3 when Giovanardi passed him I expected the Italian to pull away, but Adam battled back to 2nd. :up:

Good day for BMW. But when Colin spun in race 3 race he hit by T-O-C or did he just drop a wheel on the grass?


So Plato is over 40 points behind Gio. Has anyone ever scored over 40points in a BTCC meeting?

[mattie007]

Just got back from a great days racing.
Some of the back end/midfield guys did really well today, Doyle, Valkhaud and Hughes.
I wish they would go back to the circuit they used to use for BTCC but I suppose its better for the spectators.
Silverstone was sorely missed last year IMO!

[cos]

o Plato is over 40 points behind Gio. Has anyone ever scored over 40points in a BTCC meeting?

Dan Eaves, Thruxton '05?

[Iain]

Good day for BMW. But when Colin spun in race 3 race he hit by T-O-C or did he just drop a wheel on the grass?



He was hit.

[VX_Rules]

Can someone tell me who the other person is in Matt Jackson's car? He always refers to 'we' when I think he should be saying I He constantly uses We instead of I and constantly refers to himself in the plural....

Very odd use of English

TP

It's him and his BMW manufacturers sponsorship :P



Michael Doyle was absolutely awesome in race three, he beat both Team Dynamics Civics and all the Integras to be the first Honda home! I hope he can get a newer car for 2009.

Here here!! Doyle impressed me even more today! there's life in the old dog (Civic) yet! But he really does deserve a top line drive next year amongst the big boys.



Fabrizio Giovanardi could basically fall over the finishing line at Brands Hatch and still win the title.

Gooooood :) It's basically wrapped up, like the other two Championships.


One of the drives of the weekend for me was Stephen Jelley in race 3. Started at the back, had an incident and then came back to finish 10th - all with a shoulder that had been dislocated in race 2 (which he then put back into place himself.... :s ).

I wondered why he jus slid straight off into the gravel and doctors rushed straight over. Very odd situation. How did he do it? Too much opposite lock in the BMW? :)

>


Overall today has been a great day of racing, not too many dirty tactics, lots of team orders, expected at this end of the season. Got to love the rain on a BTCC weekend though :D

[Iain]

I wondered why he jus slid straight off into the gravel and doctors rushed straight over. Very odd situation. How did he do it? Too much opposite lock in the BMW? :)



He touched wheels with someone else while the steering wheel was turned and the impact popped his left shoulder out of it's socket. He struggled to get himself out of the car, shook his arm about a bit to get it back in (he'd done it previously), took some painkillers and raced in the third race! :D

[Mark]

And they say French is hard to understand!


It is when spoken at speed :p . I do like your username tho ;)

[SEATFreak]

SEAT let themselves down again... think they need to do some serious reorganising for next year...

My sentiments exactly. One good thing that has come of VXR's success for me. The work they do on the Vectra during the winter is a virtual joke. It is! I mean, they coast this championship with such ease, and in all honesty, what new work makes the car any stronger than before? The engineering of the Vectra has proven both times (this season and last season) how competitive and how reliable it is. The car is as flawless as as perfect as a touring car can get.
SEAT on the other hand have so much work to do, evidently, anything done will be an improvement (so long as it is the right thing) and an advance on what they have last tried to do to give Ian Harrison a sleepless night.
That is why now is the perfect time to do a full root-and-branch overhaul of the shambles that currently.
I say get NorthernSouth out and replace them with GR Asia or Prodrive (using DT as an influence), get the TDi out (it appears to be hampering the reliability too much), get the Leon out and replace it with the new shape Ibiza (it is longer and would probably be more aerodynamic than the Leon) and perhaps keep DT and Jase. Either that or get in Adam Jones to replace DT who seems to do better in the Aston Martin DBR9 in Le Mans than in a BTCC Leon TDi.


Roll on Brands Hatch

Roll on the end of the season.

[Scuderia ferrari]

Just to say- what a great meeting! The organisers ddi a great job, the parachute display was spectacular! We sat in the luffield grand stand for most the day and we saw a load of action, really entertaining. Jackson was stunning in each race. Something has to be done about drivers hitting one another in the rear to try and spin them around, Jackson was robbed of a possible race 2 victory by Fabrizio and then Jones. And in race 3, Turkington was doing a peach of an overtake on Tom Onslow-Cole, and suprise suprise, TOC turns him around. Turkington could have won race 3 if it wasn't for that.

Other than that, no gripes. The pitlane walkabout was great, and because the silverstone pit is so big, it didn't feel like you were getting pushed and shoved around as much at other places. Got Turkington's, Jelley's, Jackson's, and both Jordan's autographs and met Jack Sears!

[cazvxr]

Micky Doyle,you are a star! If you could have seen us on pit wall anyone would have thought you had come 1st.The team worked hard to get you out for race 3 and boy, did you repay us well.A fantastic drive.We are soooo proud of you.Well done!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

....... get the Leon out and replace it with the new shape Ibiza (it is longer and would probably be more aerodynamic than the Leon)..............

Ibiza is 4,034mm long
Leon is 4,315mm long

:p

[VX_Rules]

I think SEATFreak may have meant its longer than the outgoing model Ibiza as it's obviously never going to be bigger than the Leon.

[Eurotech]

the Problem is with Seats is that their new range of cars are all hatchbacks which are not as aerodynamically advanced as a saloon car because the flow of air off the rear end is compromised.

What SEAT need to do is wgo back to the Petrol Leon and work on getting somw more power out of its engine because the Diesel unit is ruining the Leons beast Feature - handling.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

the Problem is with Seats is that their new range of cars are all hatchbacks which are not as aerodynamically advanced as a saloon car because the flow of air off the rear end is compromised.

What SEAT need to do is wgo back to the Petrol Leon and work on getting somw more power out of its engine because the Diesel unit is ruining the Leons beast Feature - handling.

And I remember the petrol Leon was lighter on tyres too.

[VX_Rules]

Yeah, which comes to make you think Vauxhalls Insignia should be one hella touring car. Its the most Aerodynamic car they're ever designed supposedly, and it's big. Which we know will be handy. As the championship becomes ever more increasingly a contact sport.

[SEATFreak]

I think SEATFreak may have meant its longer than the outgoing model Ibiza as it's obviously never going to be bigger than the Leon.

Well, Jon Brown was correct then because I did think, albeit with no knowledge, from looking at the new Ibizas shape on telly it looked longer than the Leon. Though perhaps it is lower than the Leon Cupra R.

But speaking of saloons, in 2009 their is supposed to be a SEAT saloon coming out called the Exeo. Don't know what it look like tho. Could go to that in maybe 2010.

But it is strange SEAT don't produce currently in the fleet a saloon when the English translation of Sociedad Espanola de Automovilles de Tourismo is "Spannish Saloon Car Company".

[Scuderia ferrari]

http://www.majhost.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=184902

My pictures for anyone interested.

[VX_Rules]

http://tuning.pl/images/articles/Seat-Exeo_2792_1.jpgMmmmm sexy!

[SEATFreak]

http://tuning.pl/images/articles/Seat-Exeo_2792_1.jpgMmmmm sexy!

Is that the Exeo? Their is ONE saloon in the pipeline for 2009. That has to be it given it is the only saloon they look set to produce.

I cannot wait till enough cars are shifted before the team can consider using it as a replacement to the Leon Cupra R. As far as I know 2,500 cars have to be shifted in the UK before it can be used in the BTCC. But once enough are sold once the Leon is replaced by it then you will see SEATSport UK go! Especially if the new regs to be introduced into the WTCC filters to the BTCC where turbo diesel will be phased out and 2ltr turbo charged petrol engines introduced from 2010.

Look a decent opponent to the Insignia.

[Scuderia ferrari]

Indeed, looks decent, but i think the series needs a radical shape like what we've got at the moment with Seat.

[SEATFreak]

Indeed, looks decent, but i think the series needs a radical shape like what we've got at the moment with Seat.

I have never heard the Leon described as "radical" before! :laugh:

Radical it may be but in the BTCC the hatchbacks have hardly proved succesfull. Every car that I have considered really strong since observing this series from 2001 onward have all been saloons. Vauxhalls Astra, Astra Coupe and Vectra, Honda's Integra and the BMW 320si have been as far as I know the 3 best models that have competed.

I may offer the BTCC something different in the way of car shapes but hatchbacks I don't think can seriously challenge a saloon car without assistance.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I have never heard the Leon described as "radical" before! :laugh:

Radical it may be but in the BTCC the hatchbacks have hardly proved succesfull. Every car that I have considered really strong since observing this series from 2001 onward have all been saloons. Vauxhalls Astra, Astra Coupe and Vectra, Honda's Integra and the BMW 320si have been as far as I know the 3 best models that have competed.

I may offer the BTCC something different in the way of car shapes but hatchbacks I don't think can seriously challenge a saloon car without assistance.

Apart from Plato losing the title by only 3 points last season.........

[VX_Rules]

And you say the Astra and Astra Coupe. Coupe for definate but the Astra wasnt succesful in comparison in anyway.

[peewhee]

Radical it may be but in the BTCC the hatchbacks have hardly proved succesfull. Every car that I have considered really strong since observing this series from 2001 onward have all been saloons. Vauxhalls Astra, Astra Coupe and Vectra, Honda's Integra and the BMW 320si have been as far as I know the 3 best models that have competed.

I may offer the BTCC something different in the way of car shapes but hatchbacks I don't think can seriously challenge a saloon car without assistance.

It doesn't matter how many times I read this.. I am still confused!
Surely the Astra, Astra Coupe and the Honda Integra were HATCHBACK's?

And by my maths Astra, Astra Coupe, Vectra, Honda Integra and BMW 320si is FIVE models, not 3!?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It doesn't matter how many times I read this.. I am still confused!
Surely the Astra, Astra Coupe and the Honda Integra were HATCHBACK's?

And by my maths Astra, Astra Coupe, Vectra, Honda Integra and BMW 320si is FIVE models, not 3!?

Well are the Astra Coupe and Integra not Coupes? Or is a coupe with a hatchback still a hatchback? The Astra Coupe doesn't have a hatchback, does it?

:confused:

[peewhee]

Well are the Astra Coupe and Integra not Coupes? Or is a coupe with a hatchback still a hatchback? The Astra Coupe doesn't have a hatchback, does it?

:confused:
But they are certainly not SALOONS as SEATFreak gives the impression they are!

[SEATFreak]

It doesn't matter how many times I read this.. I am still confused!

Tough.

I am so frankly sick and tired of every reply being of that they are continually confused by something even though theirs clearly nothing to be confused over, that I don't give a damn anymore. I know how it sounded to me and surely that is all that is important. I know all what I wanted to say was said. That the Leon isn't of the type that has been very successful in the past. The Integra and Astra Coupe are much longer than the Leon. The Leon seems very squat to me. I have seen more aerodynamic breeze blocks.

[VX_Rules]

I an clear this up I think. Ignore the sport hatch for a moment here.

All the cars mentioned regardless being classed as a saloon, coupe or hatch. Have a "sticky out boot bit", technical terminolgy there!

This does make the car slightly more Aero.

Ignoring the Sporthatch model of course.

[Robinho]

exactly - the easiest way is to differentiate a 3 box shape and a 2 box shape.

the saloon, coupes etc generally have a 3 box shape - bonnet, body and boot, albeit the coupe's tend to have a raked rear profile rather than a bolted on boot section, but both of these offer aero gains over the 2 box shape, as in most hatchbacks - see the civic, leon etc.

the terms "saloon" is loosley applied to most of the 3 box shape cars, although the only true saloons in the BTCC at the moment i would say are the MG ZS and maybe the Chevvy and Toledo, but the BMW, Vectra, Integra and previously the Astra Coupe all fall into the 3 box profile shape IMO

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Alan: Morning, Sophie. You're not a man, are you?

Sophie: No. Would you settle this month's bill, please?

Alan: [Taking the bill from her] Right. Eight pounds "Miscellaneous Services". That sounds disconcertingly vague.

Sophie: [Smirking slightly] You used this pay channel [Writes something down on the bill in front of him]

Alan: Ah, right, yeah. It's very confusing.

[Sophie turns away to hide her laughter.]

Alan: Sophie, I find the pay channels very confusing. Can I just explain? I was trying to access 'Driving Miss Daisy'.

Sophie: [Turning back] Oh, right. And that's why you only watched it for fifteen minutes?

Alan: Yes, because it was the wrong film. Have you seen it, is it good?

Sophie: What, 'Driving Miss Daisy' or 'Bangkok Chick-boys?'

Alan: [Sternly] 'Driving Miss Daisy'. Is it a good film?

Sophie: I don't know, I haven't seen it. Was 'Bangkok Chick-boys' good?

Alan: I don't know, I didn't see it. I couldn't see it because I was in the bathroom.

[Ben arrives.]

Sophie: Oh, Ben. Mr. Partridge was just saying that he couldn't see 'Bangkok Chick-boys' from his bathroom.

Ben: Well you can if you angle the mirror by the door. Do you want me to show you?

Alan: No! I only watched it for five minutes. The remote control's confusing.

[Sophie smiles at Ben.]

Ben: Oh, what you will have done is, when it flashed up on your screen, "Do you want to watch Bangkok Chick-boys?" you must have pressed the button that said "yes".

Alan: Yeah, well, as I say, it's very confusing.

Ben: Do you want me to come up and show you the button that says "no"?

Alan: Yes. I mean, yes, I want you to come up and show me the button that says "no".

Ben: Oh, and I'll show you that mirror thing.

Alan: No. [To Sophie] Look, do you want me to settle this bill?

Sophie: Er, no. I mean, yes! You're right, it is confusing, isn't it?

Alan: [Sternly] Yes.

:s

[peewhee]

Thanks VX_Rules and Robinho for explaining that concept.

Good to see some people bothering to explain.. That is all I wanted to know!

[SEATFreak]

Thanks VX_Rules and Robinho for explaining that concept.

Good to see some people bothering to explain.. That is all I wanted to know!

What concept is that? I still haven't got the foggiest what anyone has said. Makes no sense to me whatsoever. :s