Mufflers coming in 2009

[Rex Monaco]

Until 2011, the IRL hopes to soften the sound of the normally aspirated engines with mufflers now under development. They should be in place next season.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080825/FREE/308189881/1528/newsletter01

[call_me_andrew]

I just realized something. 20 years ago, Indycars were turbocharged. Today, they aren't. In 3 years, they will be again.

Does that qualify as some kind of technolgical regression?

[NickFalzone]

The turbos are being added primarily because the series is going with more road courses. I do not see the turbos being helpful on the ovals, besides the sweeter sound. In fact, the ovals will be what limits the power of the new engine, and compromises street performance. The mid 90s had all kinds of cheating with the turbo valve and on large ovals it made the racing unsafe. I'd be happy if they went with a 700 hp v6 turbo and controlled power electronically. And lots of post-race testing like NASCAR does.

[The instant classic]

i find it kind of dumb that, they will use,new mufflers in 2011,, why not use them in 2010 with the new car? seems dumb to me,, to make the new car for 2010, and just have the next year re-make the cars all over again for the mufflers dont you think?

[Miatanut]

i find it kind of dumb that, they will use,new mufflers in 2011,, why not use them in 2010 with the new car? seems dumb to me,, to make the new car for 2010, and just have the next year re-make the cars all over again for the mufflers dont you think?

They are going to use mufflers next year and DROP them when the turbos come in, due to the natural muffling effect of a turbo.

(Does this mean it's time for a ten page debate on whether turbos actually muffle the exhaust note, or can we all take that as a given from the experience of our own ears at the track?)

[dataman1]

Does this mean it's time for a ten page debate on whether turbos actually muffle the exhaust note, or can we all take that as a given from the experience of our own ears at the track?

My ears agree with you.

[bblocker68]

My ears agree with you.


Well, we need something to talk about since the activity in here has gone to almost zero :)

[Rex Monaco]

i find it kind of dumb that, they will use,new mufflers in 2011,, why not use them in 2010 with the new car? seems dumb to me,, to make the new car for 2010, and just have the next year re-make the cars all over again for the mufflers dont you think?

What's the title of this thread again? ;)

[The instant classic]

What's the title of this thread again? ;) yes oh yes i miss that one it was late here my eyes where almost shut :s nore: :D
but i still stand by why not bring it with the new car? have everything come in 1 year, i never really agreed with nascar using the COT at some race tracks last year, and now full time this year,, to me indycar just doesnt seem to be organized ,, for this year they keep adding tracks on the season, and it mess up alot i feel,,next year new mufflers, year after new cars,, the way i feel wait till the new car is done, and ready, then lets bring the new mufflers,, then add more tracks,, and not be so disorganized, over this past year indycar has change alot, we all know why, but i feel they are pushing to much to soon :mark:

[garyshell]

yes oh yes i miss that one it was late here my eyes where almost shut :s nore: :D
but i still stand by why not bring it with the new car? have everything come in 1 year, i never really agreed with nascar using the COT at some race tracks last year, and now full time this year,, to me indycar just doesnt seem to be organized ,, for this year they keep adding tracks on the season, and it mess up alot i feel,,next year new mufflers, year after new cars,, the way i feel wait till the new car is done, and ready, then lets bring the new mufflers,, then add more tracks,, and not be so disorganized, over this past year indycar has change alot, we all know why, but i feel they are pushing to much to soon :mark:


Still can't find that pesky shift key huh?

Gary

[The instant classic]

Still can't find that pesky shift key huh?

Gary
i have put ,,,,,,, alot? :confused:

[Bob Riebe]

Anthony George prove that not only is he a clue-less twit, but so are the brown -nosers he hires.
Thank god there is still sprint and drag cars.

[The instant classic]

Anthony George prove that not only is he a clue-less twit, but so are the brown -nosers he hires.
Thank god there is still sprint and drag cars.
hate to say it but i agree

[call_me_andrew]

yes oh yes i miss that one it was late here my eyes where almost shut :s nore: :D
but i still stand by why not bring it with the new car? have everything come in 1 year, i never really agreed with nascar using the COT at some race tracks last year, and now full time this year,, to me indycar just doesnt seem to be organized ,, for this year they keep adding tracks on the season, and it mess up alot i feel,,next year new mufflers, year after new cars,, the way i feel wait till the new car is done, and ready, then lets bring the new mufflers,, then add more tracks,, and not be so disorganized, over this past year indycar has change alot, we all know why, but i feel they are pushing to much to soon :mark:

I don't see what mufflers have to do with the new car. The mufflers are part of the exhaust and that's part of the engine. This is Honda's problem, not Dallara.

And while I'm typing, slow transitions are better than fast ones.

NASCAR took forever because they had no idea if the COT would actually work in a race. Keeping the old spec around was an exit strategy.

[vintage]

NASCAR failed with the new car. They are without a doubt about the most ungainly looking pos, although I can't say I love the Dallara either. I think the IRL should have a commercial that shows the cars side by side and asks "which one is the race car?"

[Chaparral66]

They are going to use mufflers next year and DROP them when the turbos come in, due to the natural muffling effect of a turbo.

(Does this mean it's time for a ten page debate on whether turbos actually muffle the exhaust note, or can we all take that as a given from the experience of our own ears at the track?)

I'm prepared to take you at your word, but for the sake of illumination, can you explain how that works? I'm honestly curious as to how that happens.

[BoilerIMS]

...(Does this mean it's time for a ten page debate on whether turbos actually muffle the exhaust note, or can we all take that as a given from the experience of our own ears at the track?)

There is no question that turbos muffle the exhaust sound of an engine - just listen to the turbo-aspirated cars in the ALMS.

I just hope the engine design/turbo combination do not excessively mute the engine, like the ALMS/LMS diesels. Despite their technological coolness, the Audi and Peugeot diesels do not have an appealing sound. I got about as close to them as is possible during Le Mans (the straight between Mulsanne and Indianapolis) this year and all I can say is this: they sound like extra-quiet vacuum cleaners.

[JSH]

There is no question that turbos muffle the exhaust sound of an engine - just listen to the turbo-aspirated cars in the ALMS.

I just hope the engine design/turbo combination do not excessively mute the engine, like the ALMS/LMS diesels. Despite their technological coolness, the Audi and Peugeot diesels do not have an appealing sound. I got about as close to them as is possible during Le Mans (the straight between Mulsanne and Indianapolis) this year and all I can say is this: they sound like extra-quiet vacuum cleaners.

It's my understanding that the Audi and Peugeot LMP1's also have the diesel particulate filters installed. This would also significantly muffle the sound.

That, and as it's a marketing exercise to explode the myth of "clunk diesels" alot of NVH work is included that a regular race car wouldn't have.

[Miatanut]

I'm prepared to take you at your word, but for the sake of illumination, can you explain how that works? I'm honestly curious as to how that happens.
I would have to say my knowledge of it is just from being at the track and noticing the difference between turbos and non-turbos of various outputs, and noticing the turbos are consistently quieter.

I took a class in acoustics in grad school, but I don't think I can explain just how it works.

I think it's basically just that the vanes of the turbo smooth the exhaust flow, which reduces the amplitude (loudness) of the pressure pulse (sound waves) coming out of the exhaust ports.

My instructor in school (an acoustical consultant) said mufflers work on the principle of a Helmholtz resonator, and that the friction on the restricted opening between the chamber and the main body of the muffler took the energy out of the exhaust note (reduced its amplitude).

I like a muffler that gives you more power more than one that takes some away!

[vintage]

I think a turbo also muffles due to taking energy out of the exhaust as it transfers the energy back into the motor.

[call_me_andrew]

Turbos do make the exhaust quieter. This is one reason why CART hung onto them. It makes it easier to race in locations that have a noise ordinance.


NASCAR failed with the new car. They are without a doubt about the most ungainly looking pos, although I can't say I love the Dallara either. I think the IRL should have a commercial that shows the cars side by side and asks "which one is the race car?"

They're capable of turning (albeit, barely) and they haven't killed anyone yet. "Mission accomplished" banners have been hung for less.

[Jag_Warrior]

NASCAR failed with the new car. They are without a doubt about the most ungainly looking pos, although I can't say I love the Dallara either. I think the IRL should have a commercial that shows the cars side by side and asks "which one is the race car?"

The IRL (and its fans) might not like the response that comes back on that commercial. NASCAR earned a 5.1 Nielsen and close to 100,000 fans showed up to watch the "ungainly looking pos" stock cars. At the same track, the IRL received a 0.41 rating and Steve Page, Infineon's president and general manager, said that the crowd to see the IRL was "perhaps 45,000".

If auto racing was a contest over which series had the coolest looking cars, I'd say ALMS would be well ahead of any series running in North America right now. But it's not. Fans tend to follow drivers. Whichever series does the best job of building its drivers into heroes wins. Right now, NASCAR Sprint Cup and Nationwide are winning that battle.

The IRL cars have sounded the same for the past 5 or 6 years. Why change now? Isn't this "move to muffle" just to enable them to run street races without getting the NIMBY's wound up?

[NickFalzone]

It comes down to which series has the best marketing. Not the best looking cars, not the most exciting racing, and certainly not the best drivers, but the best sales approach to the general public. While they're not great race cars, the cabs make for big billboards that sponsors can get a lot of tv time out of. They're also in that sweet spot between a conventional car like a GT, and a highly specialized car like a prototype or an open-wheel. Lots of bumping and banging, lots of WWF style tantrums from the drivers, a mostly American field of drivers... they have a lot of aspects to their league that lends itself to promotion. They have done everything right in terms of the marketability of the league. Not the racing. But it's not the racing that counts when it comes to bringing in the Nielsen #'s.