Valencia Driver of the Day [Archive]

ioan

24th August 2008, 15:40

For me it's between Massa and Glock. Vettel is my second favorite driver but he lost a place to Trulli during the race.

I'll be biased and I'll award it to Massa, who got Pole, Fastest lap and Win after an error free "tour de force", where he managed to correct the pit stop blunder the team put him into.

truefan72

24th August 2008, 16:38

Lewis Hamilton for me

truefan72

24th August 2008, 16:40

Nikki Katz

24th August 2008, 16:45

It was a bit of a bland race so it's hard to tell who was particularly good. There were a few that were really bad (Raikkonen, Coulthard, Barrichello) but other than that everyone was pretty much interchangeable. I guess that Kubica was punching above his weight all weekend, but he didn't get much screen time. I'd probably give it to Vettel because he was in the points in a Toro Rosso with only one of the regular front-runners in trouble. There's no real reason not to give it to Massa, Hamilton or Trulli though.

Or Nakajima for the only televised pass of the day that didn't result in someone in the wall (though obviously his first lap did).

ioan

24th August 2008, 16:54

it has to go to Massa, who was of course in his favorite position leading a race from start to finish. I am yet to see him win a race where he had to fight for it though. If he isn't leading he's bleeding :)

Didn't that happen in Turkey this year?
Or was it France?

And he was so close to it 3 weeks ago when only his engine stopped him from getting the 10 points!

;)

ioan

24th August 2008, 17:01

Or Nakajima for the only televised pass of the day that didn't result in someone in the wall (though obviously his first lap did).

A good reason, he really pulled the only pass I saw in the race.

VkmSpouge

24th August 2008, 17:05

I would choose Felipe Massa just ahead of Timo Glock and Vettel.

truefan72

24th August 2008, 17:10

Didn't that happen in Turkey this year?
Or was it France?

And he was so close to it 3 weeks ago when only his engine stopped him from getting the 10 points!

;)

nope

Massa led in turkey essentially from start to finish and in fact got passed by LH on the track only to regain it back when LH had to pit based on his pit strategy, and then, of course couldn't really challenge having to do a long stin on softs

as for France
Kimi had the pole and was pulling away from Massa, until his exhaust pipe broke, and massa overtook him becuse of that. ended the race 17.9 seconds ahead of kim and his broken exhaust pipe, so a typical massa win there as well.

As for Barhein, another massa start to finish job, just like Valencia.

In Hungary, he had a better start and that's that. Actually, the only real move I've seen massa do in his years at Ferrari. And that was at the start.

He doens't do well if he is in a battle with drivers. He can't hold on to the lead if a rival is closing in, and really never is able to pass a driver ahead of him when he needs to. Like I said, if he doesn't have a clear track ahead of him and zero pressure from behind ,he wins. otherwise trouble.

Now LH in Germany, that was something. :)

pino

24th August 2008, 17:11

Trulli for me :p :

ioan

24th August 2008, 17:15

In Hungary, he had a better start and that's that.

That's rubbish! He and Hamilton went side by side into the first corner, and Massa overtook him on the outside of the corner!
Not that I would have expected you to acknowledge it! :p :

Actually, the only real move I've seen massa do in his years at Ferrari. And that was at the start.

Passing 2 cars in one corner in Canada this season?! And there is more but what use is there to tell the obvious to someone who doesn't listen?!

Now LH in Germany, that was something. :)

Something what? I don't remember anything exceptional? :confused:

truefan72

24th August 2008, 17:15

Trulli for me :p :

no surprise there,

but he did do a good job today. In fact both toyota's did good

pino

24th August 2008, 17:21

no surprise there,

but he did do a good job today...

Not only today but in most races of the season so far ;)

Matt888

24th August 2008, 17:22

Massa! It's the logical choice, Kimi had that same car and dissapeared into championship oblivian, just like Massa did last year??

truefan72

24th August 2008, 17:23

That's rubbish! He and Hamilton went side by side into the first corner, and Massa overtook him on the outside of the corner!
Not that I would have expected you to acknowledge it! :p :

Passing 2 cars in one corner in Canada this season?! And there is more but what use is there to tell the obvious to someone who doesn't listen?!

Something what? I don't remember anything exceptional? :confused:

LOL

I forgot Canada, but that was more of an opportunist move wasn't it, since the car in front of him made a mistake and the one in front of that overcooked the turn , But I'll give you that one :up:

so that's two!

listen, winning from start to finish isn't a walk in the park,but his tendency is that if he has to fight, it usually doesn't go his way. I dare say a lot of schumi's wins were start to finish jobs, but he also had a good number of unbelievable races.

I would like to see massa develop a racing guile along with his ferrari speed. :hmph:

ioan

24th August 2008, 17:30

LOL

I forgot Canada, but that was more of an opportunist move wasn't it, since the car in front of him made a mistake and the one in front of that overcooked the turn , But I'll give you that one :up:

so that's two!

listen, winning from start to finish isn't a walk in the park,but his tendency is that if he has to fight, it usually doesn't go his way. I dare say a lot of schumi's wins were start to finish jobs, but he also had a good number of unbelievable races.

I would like to see massa develop a racing guile along with his ferrari speed. :hmph:

I just thought about when did his team mate won a race when not starting up front, but with passing cars on the track. I can't remember it.

Zico

24th August 2008, 17:51

Corny

24th August 2008, 18:38

Why is Massa so underrated by everyone? It's simply an amazing driver, OK there are better personalities but yet he's far better than everyone says he is

markabilly

24th August 2008, 18:51

F1boat

24th August 2008, 19:01

Massa for me!

ioan

24th August 2008, 19:04

Why is Massa so underrated by everyone? It's simply an amazing driver, OK there are better personalities but yet he's far better than everyone says he is

The fact that he was/is supported by a certain MS is certainly a huge part of it! ;)
Than everyone was talking about how KR is way better than him and would have also been better than MS (yeah right :D ), just for him to marginally beat Massa last season and being shown the way this season.

All in all plenty of subjective reasons to diminish the little Brazilians achievement, nothing substantiated though.

Jag_Warrior

24th August 2008, 19:06

Massa.. & Vettel a close second.

Donkey of the race? Probably Kimi for what looked like going on the instruction of one of his pit crew rather than their light system.

Was such a boring race.. dire!

Yes, a real snoozer! The GP2 races were much better... especially the feature.

Kimi pretty well wrapped up the Donkey Award... though David Coulthard gave him a run for it. Lately, Kimi appears to just be mailing in his performances.

Best drive? That's much harder. Especially since I had to watch most of the race a second time, since I fell asleep during the first go around. Kubica or Vettel, I'd say. Both seemed to get better results than they should have in their respective cars.

52Paddy

24th August 2008, 19:44

Driver of the day? I'm in the same boat as a few others. The race was so uninspiring that I find it hard to credit anyone. Massa did hold his lead together well but didn't really have to contend with anything major, he just drove a solid race. Hamilton was simply not as quick as Massa. Kubica was so much "behind the scenes" its hard to rate him. I think I'll give it to Vettel. He really delivered today, brought out the results he needed to show what he can do. I also must say that Fisichella was pretty good through the weekend.

Donkey of the race? I would say Kimi. He drove such a half-arsed race, despite a chance of a good few drivers points. When his engine blew up, I almost felt happy that someone else was getting his position, someone who had really wanted to be out there racing today. Performance wise, Barrichello and Coulthard are showing their age it seems.

Robinho

24th August 2008, 20:12

Massa for me, Vettell a close second.

Massa has gone another step in convincing me he is more than just a very quick driver (and nice guy), but can string a challenge together and hasn't been making the silly errors i would have expected him to previously (probably less than the other front runners this year) - great drive, never looked under threat.

ArrowsFA1

24th August 2008, 20:12

Massa was certainly a deserving winner, but I think Vettel gets my vote for driver of the day. His performace today capped off a great weekend for Toro Rosso.

In the light of the fact he nearly didn't race (link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70055)) perhaps Hamilton could get a mention as well.

Knock-on

24th August 2008, 22:10

Hamilton did a superb job considering the medical situation.

Vettel did a great job and enhanced his collateral yet again.

However, it really has to be Massa. Even though he should have been penalised for his Pit lane idiocy and finished in 2nd, he would have still deserved the accolade for driver of the day.

gm99

24th August 2008, 22:24

I think Massa, Trulli, Glock & Vettel all did well today.

Donkey of the race should go to DC, Kimi & Heidfeld.

aryan

25th August 2008, 03:56

Glock for me.

Honourable mention to Massa, Vettel, Kubica and Truli.

Massa can win from pole, we already know that. I am yet to see him fight his way through the grid to win a race, like Schumacher used to do... but maybe it's neither the track's nor Massa's fault, maybe it's just that difficult to "race" with these super aerodynamic upside-down planes that are F1 cars.

Tazio

25th August 2008, 06:10

Just read my Sig. It's been there since Barca! :dozey:

leopard

25th August 2008, 06:12

Winning from pole is fairly better than start from nowhere and did not finish, perfect result and hence deserving of dotd.

Trulli successfully defended his position and wasn't bothered with smoke generated from car behind... Toyotas had the awesome weekend.

Storm

25th August 2008, 08:53

Well great race after such a downer in Hungary...
2 races in a row really...Felipe has been on it, great performance on track and he is blowing away Kimi (what the problem is..I do not know) not just Lewis/Kubica/Heikki....

Anderton

25th August 2008, 08:57

Number one has got to be Massa imo.
Glock and Vettel close behind though.

Dave B

25th August 2008, 13:25

Massa. Easy.

jens

26th August 2008, 11:44

Massa, Hamilton, Kubica, Trulli, Vettel, Glock, Rosberg, Fisichella - all did a fine job.

PolePosition_1

26th August 2008, 12:27

sike...calm down ioan

it has to go to Massa, who was of course in his favorite position leading a race from start to finish. I am yet to see him win a race where he had to fight for it though. If he isn't leading he's bleeding :)

but for tody he was king.

I find that a slightly harsh image for Massa. Sure he has won majority of his races from Pole.

But so has Lewis, 6 out of his 8 victories are from pole position.

Though it is true Massa has only won once when not starting from pole (and that victory was won with Kimi suffering problem).

But Massa has got decent race craftmanship, he overtook more cars than anyone in 2007. And has had some strong races coming from back of field (albeit some bad ones too).

But this year we've seen him make a major step forward, and I'm sure we'll see him win through his good craftmanship.

I think telling story that he rarely wins from lower down the grid, is because if he is fastest guy out there, he starts first anyway.

And with competition so close (2s first to last), if for whatever reason he is quite far down, it makes it hard to make progress compared to old days when MS and KR use to go from last to first.

As we've seen, overtaking when faster is very difficult.

PolePosition_1

26th August 2008, 12:32

Regarding topic, for me Vettel, he was hanging onto Heikki, Robert and Kimi really well at beginning. Unfortunately Trulli went longer so leapfrogged him, but their pace was pretty much equal throughout the race, in what is obviously a slower car than the Toyota.

Though Massa would have to get a shout out to.

But Vettel for driver of the day.

ioan

26th August 2008, 12:58

Though it is true Massa has only won once when not starting from pole (and that victory was won with Kimi suffering problem).

Make that 3 times, just to be accurate.

ArrowsFA1

26th August 2008, 13:08

Make that 3 times, just to be accurate.
Errrrrr...make it twice. Bahrain & France this year where he qualified 2nd. His other seven race wins have been won from pole.

Just for comparison, Hamilton has won 6 GP's from pole, one from 3rd on the grid and one from 4th, so not much difference between them really.

Knock-on

26th August 2008, 13:08

Make that 3 times, just to be accurate.

Just for accuracy, can you enlightn me as to what victories he has won when not starting in pole.

I just have France and Bahrain down on my books :confused:

PolePosition_1

26th August 2008, 13:15

Ok, once, twice, three times. (albeit its twice sorry for my error) - the principles still stand.

Just because he often wins from pole doesn't mean he is a bad racer. Look at Hamilton, regarded as a top racer, yet 75% of victories come from pole.

ioan

26th August 2008, 13:37

My bad, I counted Hungary as won race given that he was only stoped by a blown engine.
It's only 2.

ioan

26th August 2008, 13:40

Just because he often wins from pole doesn't mean he is a bad racer. Look at Hamilton, regarded as a top racer, yet 75% of victories come from pole.

I agree with you. It's not their fault that they start often from pole position!

jens

27th August 2008, 08:31

I agree with you. It's not their fault that they start often from pole position!

:up:
Considering the current state of Formula One, the majority of race wins are achieved from poles, so it's not just about Massa. It's not like the 80's, when we could witness Prost near P10 at the start of the race to see him rising to the top by the end of the race.

PolePosition_1

27th August 2008, 09:04

:up:
Considering the current state of Formula One, the majority of race wins are achieved from poles, so it's not just about Massa. It's not like the 80's, when we could witness Prost near P10 at the start of the race to see him rising to the top by the end of the race.

You can even go back to 2005. Alonso often qualified 5th and 6th and to win.

I don't know, if someone has some time, they could find out stats for this year, regarding what positions each win have come from this year so far.

Knock-on

27th August 2008, 09:34

You can even go back to 2005. Alonso often qualified 5th and 6th and to win.

I don't know, if someone has some time, they could find out stats for this year, regarding what positions each win have come from this year so far.

I think that may have been due to superior LC and Renaults rear weight bias allowing them to get to the front quicker.

If you go back to the barnstorming days, the best drivers were able to use their skill to overtake and make a real difference.

Now, the best drivers make a difference by qualifying better than their team mate and keeping it on the Island during the race.

The FIA has made some moves to get racing back to the situation we had before they Fecked it up but MORE needs to be done,

Dave B

27th August 2008, 09:41

You can even go back to 2005. Alonso often qualified 5th and 6th and to win.

I don't know, if someone has some time, they could find out stats for this year, regarding what positions each win have come from this year so far.

AUS: HAM 1
MAL: RAI 2
BHR: MAS 2
ESP: RAI 1
TUR: MAS 1
MON: HAM 3
CAN: KUB 2
FRA: MAS 2
GBR: HAM 4
GER: HAM 1
HUN: KOV 2
EUR: MAS 1

The only person to win this year without having started on the front row is Hamilton (Monaco and Britain).

Who says you can't overtake in F1? :p

PolePosition_1

27th August 2008, 10:24

AUS: HAM 1
MAL: RAI 2
BHR: MAS 2
ESP: RAI 1
TUR: MAS 1
MON: HAM 3
CAN: KUB 2
FRA: MAS 2
GBR: HAM 4
GER: HAM 1
HUN: KOV 2
EUR: MAS 1

The only person to win this year without having started on the front row is Hamilton (Monaco and Britain).

Who says you can't overtake in F1? :p

Cheers for doing that.

Well thats a pretty telling story, and a depressing one at that.

My mates take the piss because they say its boring, and predict the top 4 places in order of qualifying. They not far off the truth. I just hope we see big difference next season.

But to be honest, with the qualifying format of putting the fastest cars at front and slowest at back, we're not really encouraging overtaking.

I'm in favour of scrapping qualifying and having a reverse grid each race.

Garry Walker

27th August 2008, 13:27

Massa and Kubica.

gloomyDAY

27th August 2008, 16:18

I'm in favour of scrapping qualifying and having a reverse grid each race. :down: That's a maniacal proposition.

PolePosition_1

27th August 2008, 16:27

:down: That's a maniacal proposition.

Yeah, a while back I'd have agreed, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

We switch on to watch drivers race eachother. But by putting fastest car first, and slowest last, there is little chance of overtaking. Your dis-coveraging overtaking.

But I can't see that happening anyway. Plus I acknowledge I'm in the minority with regards to this.

ioan

27th August 2008, 16:51

Yeah, a while back I'd have agreed, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

We switch on to watch drivers race eachother. But by putting fastest car first, and slowest last, there is little chance of overtaking. Your dis-coveraging overtaking.

But I can't see that happening anyway. Plus I acknowledge I'm in the minority with regards to this.

The day you need a car to be more than 1 second per lap faster in order to have the slightest chance to pass?
Look at Lewy in France, he started 13th or 14th and finished 10th?
How could he get in a points scoring position from dead last?!

gloomyDAY

27th August 2008, 22:16

Yeah, a while back I'd have agreed, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

We switch on to watch drivers race eachother. But by putting fastest car first, and slowest last, there is little chance of overtaking. Your dis-coveraging overtaking.

But I can't see that happening anyway. Plus I acknowledge I'm in the minority with regards to this.Thank goodness you're in the minority! Imagine what would happen with a reverse grid....

F1 teams purposely stopping at the start/finish line in order to post the slowest time. I already see enough of this crap in the WRC with 2008's regulations and there is nothing interesting about this matter.

F1boat

28th August 2008, 07:01

AUS: HAM 1

The only person to win this year without having started on the front row is Hamilton (Monaco and Britain).

Normal, in wet races this can happen.

ShiftingGears

28th August 2008, 07:09

Thank goodness you're in the minority! Imagine what would happen with a reverse grid....

F1 teams purposely stopping at the start/finish line in order to post the slowest time. I already see enough of this crap in the WRC with 2008's regulations and there is nothing interesting about this matter.

Totally agreed. F1 doesn't need gimmicks like this.

PolePosition_1

28th August 2008, 08:09

Thank goodness you're in the minority! Imagine what would happen with a reverse grid....

F1 teams purposely stopping at the start/finish line in order to post the slowest time. I already see enough of this crap in the WRC with 2008's regulations and there is nothing interesting about this matter.

Well, I would suggest a reverse grid from the championship standing. So that wouldn't be a problem.

PolePosition_1

28th August 2008, 08:15

The day you need a car to be more than 1 second per lap faster in order to have the slightest chance to pass?
Look at Lewy in France, he started 13th or 14th and finished 10th?
How could he get in a points scoring position from dead last?!

Well the regulations will change next year. With slick tyres giving the drivers more confidence going off line, and without the air disruption by the current aero designs, cars should be able to overtake much more easily.

I just look at it as the classic races and the ones which have defined drivers have been those where the best have started at the back and fought their way to the front.

Or in wet races, where we drivers in positions they're not normally in, and they tend to be the best races.

52Paddy

28th August 2008, 08:29

cars should be able to overtake much more easily.

Keyword there is 'should.' Since I've been watching F1 (2001), the FIA have promised new rules to spice things up a bit and encourage over taking. Its the same story every year. It also adds some confusion when trying to follow the sport. The way I see it is that if they want to encourage overtaking, you need to take things away from the driver. Lessen his comfort zone. The FIA just add more to the cars, and make rules. The drivers become more limited. I would say a fair share of the drivers out there could put on an impressive show but, aerodynamically, find it almost impossible.

ShiftingGears

28th August 2008, 08:31

Well the regulations will change next year. With slick tyres giving the drivers more confidence going off line, and without the air disruption by the current aero designs, cars should be able to overtake much more easily.

So why not leave it at that?

I just look at it as the classic races and the ones which have defined drivers have been those where the best have started at the back and fought their way to the front.

Yes, all of which have been without gimmicks, and they have been classic because they don't come by very often. If they did that every single race because of forced situations they wouldn't be classic, would they?

An example:
Look at NASCAR, lots of passing on ovals - every single race isnt classic simply because there is a lot of passing every race. To me, I don't like the fact that the caution flag is thrown for excessive amounts of time to encourage "exciting" racing. Because every single race then turns out the same, ie, everything bar last 30 laps becomes redundant.

If every single race involves thousands of passes it becomes boring, because there's no dynamics from race to race. I don't think you'd get dynamics from a reverse grid. This is forgetting that a reverse grid rewards the least deserving drivers, which is not what Formula One is about.