European GP, practice qualifying and race

[ioan]

Time to start a thread for the newest F1 race!

Not so long before we get the first idea about F1 cars running on this track.

[gloomyDAY]

The tire wear issue seems like a coin toss in Valencia, but I still think that McLaren can pull off pole once again as they did in Hungary. Race pace will probably go to Ferrari.

[ArrowsFA1]

It's exciting to be going to a new venue, and particularly a street circuit. Bridgestone have expressed concerns (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69926) about possible punctures caused by the bridge section so first practice should be interesting.

[Dave B]

No sign of streaming on ITV-F1 (although they lagging by about 10 minutes in Germany so don't expect miracles). :down:

BBC 5 Live Sports Extra have got Anthony Davidson co-commentating, which is usually entertaining and insightful. :up:

[Dave B]

Vettel complaining about the bump going onto the swing bridge.

[ArrowsFA1]

No sign of streaming on ITV-F1...
Rather annoying that :mad: Perhaps it will appear soon...Until then 5Live are doing a great job as usual :up:

[gloomyDAY]

Can I get a pm for footage? Thanks!

[ArrowsFA1]

Looks like Bourdais may be the first to set a time...

[Knock-on]

It's exciting to be going to a new venue, and particularly a street circuit. Bridgestone have expressed concerns (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69926) about possible punctures caused by the bridge section so first practice should be interesting.

If there's a puncture, you can bet Lewis will find it. The boys a magnet for the bloody things.

[AndySpeed]

Any sign of live streaming working at itv-f1.com yet?

[ArrowsFA1]

Nope :(

[Dave B]

Finally live streaming is working, try refresing the page :)

[ioan]

Any sign of live streaming working at itv-f1.com yet?

Yep! It works for me. It took a good half an hour to start but it works!

[ArrowsFA1]

All ok for me too now :cool:

[Dave B]

Just discovered that my laptop isn't powerful enough to stream F1 full-screen and stream the Olympics full-screen on an external monitor and show live timing in the sidebar. :erm:

[gloomyDAY]

Talk about a green track!

Everyone is having a little slide.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm getting a bit confused here. The ITV pictures, F1 live timing, & 5Live commentary aren't quite in the same time zone :eek: :p

[Dave B]

I'm listening to 5 Live via my Sky box and it seems about spot on with the live timing. The ITV stream, however, is about 1m10s behind and I've had to mute the sound to stop myself getting confused.

I mentioned the Autosport map in the other thread: if you've got this week's issue the photo on pp8-9 is proving very useful in conjunction with the TV pictures for learning the circuit.

[ArrowsFA1]

Lots of slipping & sliding going on, but I guess the grip will improve as time goes on.

[gloomyDAY]

Vettel ontop? Read my sig....

[ioan]

Vettel is for sure a very promising young driver, more so than a certain Golden Boy! ;)
Ferrari should have tried to sign him for when Kimi calls it quits (end of 2009 it seems).

[ArrowsFA1]

Well, well, well...how about those Toro Rosso's then eh?

[truefan72]

very impressive by the torro rosso's
at first I though it was down to the soft tires but in looking at the footage, it is obviously to their credit that they found a very good setup. And bothe drivers are doing the car justice. Very, very impressive.

I think this track is spectacular. I love the length of it, the long straights, the tight corners, the movement, and the scenery. Congrats on Valencia in creating a real F1 worthy track. A cross between Bharein and Monaco, with a touch of spa inbetween. Very nice.

Impressions so far are that, Ferrari, McLaren and BMW are awfully close, Torro Rosso at first glance seems to be miles ahead of RBR and likely to move up to high mid pack ( let's see about the realiabilty), but based on sheer pace alone would be up there as the 4th team in contention.

Williams- don't know what to make of Rosberg, Nakajima looks decent but the car seems to lack s/thing

Toyota - Glock's starting to show his quality now, Trulli is dissapointing. The car seems to have some bite , but still needs a bit more.

Renault - Piquet just looked awful today. One or two good laps, but the rst were mistke ridden. Can't chalk this one up to being a rookie, since everyone is new on this track. For some reason, he can;t seem to get the last turn (#25) right at all. Alonso will be there... The car is unpredictable at this point.

RBR -just looks awful. Both drivers are not performing as well. Maybe i has to do with the car.

Honda - eh, what can I say, it is what it is

Force India - Good Job by Sutil, bad job by Fisi. I still don't know whatr to make of the car. IMO Sutil deserves a better drive. Let's hope the car get's better.


...of course these assessments are made after only FP1 :)

[ioan]

Well, well, well...how about those Toro Rosso's then eh?

They are looking strong!
It seems that they made the right choice with the Ferrari engine. :D
What now Mr. Newey, how do you explain your preference for the Renault engine in the Red Bull cars?!

[gloomyDAY]

They are looking strong!
It seems that they made the right choice with the Ferrari engine. :D
What now Mr. Newey, how do you explain your preference for the Renault engine in the Red Bull cars?!Do you think the STR's were running very light on fuel? Also, to current date Renault engines have had less failures than Ferrari engines. We shouldn't jump to any conclusions on the first practice session, except for the fact that Coulthard is in the wrong sport. Demolition derby's are across the pond.

[ioan]

Do you think the STR's were running very light on fuel?

They were all running light at the end, just that Lewy managed to spin it, Kimi to outbrake himself while Felipe and Vettel managed some cleaner laps.


Also, to current date Renault engines have had less failures than Ferrari engines.

Might be, but how about the speed?! ;)


We shouldn't jump to any conclusions on the first practice session, except for the fact that Coulthard is in the wrong sport. Demolition derby's are across the pond.

:rotflmao: :up:
He got craned away, again, today.

[MAX_THRUST]

Any tyre issues this morning???

[ArrowsFA1]

They're off and running again.

[ioan]

Did Heidfeld just say that there were people walking near the track?!

[ArrowsFA1]

Sounded like he said the police were moving people out of the run-off area :eek:

[ioan]

Something like that. I was not sure about the police part.

Anyway, times are going lower and lower as they lay more and more rubber on the track.

[Dave B]

Hamilton was telling the team this morning that a marshall was on the track during the practice session. Sounds like the security needs tightening up somewhat.

Add this to Barrichello's complaint (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69930) about the local police who, "keep on telling me to turn right. My hotel is a five minute walk from here and it takes me half an hour as they tell me to go to Barcelona and come back so that’s the only thing I don’t think they are very well prepared."

Hopefully just teething problems with a brand new venue, rather than a lack of organisation.

[ArrowsFA1]

Looks like Felipe & Heikki may be running heavier than their team-mates.

No sooner I say that than Massa goes fastest :laugh:

[ioan]

And they use the softer tires too now.

[Dave B]

We're seeing a lot of drivers have harmless trips off the circuit. I wonder if they'll be quite so harmless if they happen on Sunday when they're in a pack with 19 other cars?

[Dave B]

Race control: "Incident involving car 5 [Alonso] will be investigated after practice."

Did I miss something?

[ioan]

:eek: Rosberg sliding like on ice!

[ioan]

Race control: "Incident involving car 5 [Alonso] will be investigated after practice."

Did I miss something?

Didn't see it either.

They just showed a reply now. Nothing extraordinary.

[Dave B]

Massive slide from Rosberg there! He was lucky to avoid first Webber then the wall. Patrick Head did NOT look a happy bunny!

[veeten]

hell of a spin by Rosberg coming off that series of turns before the last chicane. Big flat spots on the front tyres.

[veeten]

Alonso deciding too late to come on the pit entry.

[ArrowsFA1]

Race control: "Incident involving car 5 [Alonso] will be investigated after practice."

Did I miss something?
Well he didn't exactly follow the pit entrance line, but it'd be a bit daft if he's penalised for that. Perhaps Alonso is just testing to see if he can get away with that during the race...?

[Dave B]

hell of a spin by Rosberg coming off that series of turns before the last chicane. Big flat spots on the front tyres.
Which makes it even more strange that he decided to start another lap when he was only a few metres away from the pitlane entrance :s

[veeten]

probably hoping it was still capable to do another lap, I guess. And after the *fap fap fap* of the tyres, Nico had to know that it was a no-go. Just bring it in, pal. :\

[ArrowsFA1]

What is up with those Red Bulls?

[veeten]

that sharp turn after the bridge is a white-knuckle ride. :eek: Too many drivers have had problems trying to maintain pace coming across it.

[ArrowsFA1]

While Jarno's saying his Toyota is "really, ready bad" it looks like Glock is continuing his recent good form. 3rd fastest at the moment.

[Dave B]

What is up with those Red Bulls?

Strange, isn't it? DC's managed to drag a few halfway decent laps out of his, but most of the time both RBs are looking pretty grim.

[ArrowsFA1]

The Force India's seem to be going pretty well with their new gearbox.

[ArrowsFA1]

Where the blummin' 'eck did Button get that time from :eek:

[veeten]

track is coming alive. Button, 2nd!

[MAX_THRUST]

The tyres on turn two exit is definately gonna get some visitors on race day....probably first lap.

[harsha]

where the hell did Button come from.....

[harsha]

Raikkonen takes it at the end

[MAX_THRUST]

Probably in those sweeping turns at the end of the lap. He tends to be smooth maybe thats where it helps?

[MAX_THRUST]

Was Kimi on hard tyres too

[MAX_THRUST]

Yes to answer my own question

Oh look you can see my boat!!!

[Dave B]

I think we may have seen a couple of low-fuel glory runs at the end there :eek:

[harsha]

Raikkonen,Alonso and Button the top 3...

who would have thought that Button would post a time almost 2 seconds faster than his teammate...

[MAX_THRUST]

Not Rubens

[veeten]

Massa has to be fumming right about now...

"Where the &%#* did Button get that lap from, and how did he get ahead of ME!!" :eek:

[MAX_THRUST]

whats the current air tempreture there?

Everyone except Webber looks wrecked so far....

[ioan]

Raikkonen,Alonso and Button the top 3...

who would have thought that Button would post a time almost 2 seconds faster than his teammate...

I wouldn't get my hope to high about Button's achievement, not even about Alonso.

[harsha]

neither would I...but it's surprising to see Button over two seconds a lap faster than Barrichello in the fastest laps department...

[Roamy]

Brawn had a meeting with the two of them and announced that alonso has been signed and the slowest one of these two is going bye bye at the end of the year. So it is get it up time for the Honda drivers

[ShiftingGears]

Probably some of the strangest two practice session results I've seen. Good to see that Webber has found some pace again, after some strange result in Free practice 1. I hope Raikkonen can win this, or Alonso.

[ShiftingGears]

Toro Rosso 1-2 at the moment...they've prepared pretty well. I've noticed the gear ratios on several cars sound slightly off, with the cars registering lower revs than I'd expect in certain areas. Maybe the gearing + engine mapping is one area the Toro Rosso team has sussed out. Also, I hope Bourdais can maintain the close gap to his teammate (+0.009) and even improve on it.

[gloomyDAY]

STR showed the Ferrari engine's might. Vettel made a mistake on his final lap during qualifying, so I think the German could have managed a better time. There's always next time!

[ShiftingGears]

No Renault engined cars in the top 10. Nevertheless, brilliant work for both Toro Rosso drivers, and well done to Massa. The race is going to be great.

[ioan]

STR showed the Ferrari engine's might. Vettel made a mistake on his final lap during qualifying, so I think the German could have managed a better time. There's always next time!

Newey's bias against the Ferrari engine is hitting back! :D

MW said the Ferrari engine is worth maybe 0.4 seconds a lap.

[CaptainRaiden]

Kimi running heavy or just disappointingly slow?

[ShiftingGears]

Newey's bias against the Ferrari engine is hitting back! :D

MW said the Ferrari engine is worth maybe 0.4 seconds a lap.

I don't know why he thought that having the slower engine would pay off in the long run, at all. We can only hope that next year the Red Bull A team has the A grade engines while the B team has the B grade engines.

Or even better, hope that the engine freeze is dropped.

[truefan72]

I can't beleive I overslept the Quali,

perhaps coming home at 5am had s/thing to do withit.

Anyway, Gathering from the various news souirces and F1 website, it seems Massa pulled of a fast lap in the dieing seconds to userp Hamilton.

From what I gathered also was that the Torro Rosso's did well. Vettel lead both Q1 and Q2 and Trulli (surprisingly) was2nd in bothe sessions.

I think that the unfamilairty with Q3 by STR might have cost Vettel a top 2 spot. They should have fueld him approrpiately instead of sticking with probably their prearranged fuel loads, as they probably didn't think they were getting into Q3 (which againI don;t know why since both drivers were awfully fast all weekend)

Good #10 for Bourdais.
What happended to Alonso and Glock?
Kimi is probably going to jump Kubica at the start.
What happened to the RBR team?
Trulli once again showed his Quali experience.( but expect a mini trulli train behind him of Heidfeld,Rosber, Bourdais and Nakajima)

can't wait for the race!

[F1boat]

Congratulations for Massa, but the true star is the track - it is astonishingly beautiful, as much as Monte Carlo or better (I didn't believe that I would say that).
I bow to Valencia GP organizers.

[COD]

McLaren again showing who they favor. They put hard tyres on Kovalainen's car on Q3 against his will and destroyed his chaces against Lewis and anyone else.

That bald dude leading the team should cut the cr*p about two equal drivers

[gloomyDAY]

McLaren again showing who they favor. They put hard tyres on Kovalainen's car on Q3 against his will and destroyed his chaces against Lewis and anyone else.

That bald dude leading the team should cut the cr*p about two equal driversIs there a quote about Kovy's disdain?

I'm searching a lot of familiar websites trying to find a fuming Finn.

[gloomyDAY]

Nicky is bitching about traffic once again.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70013

Heidfeld's statement is laughable! He compared today's qualifying to the incident with Bourdais in Hungary. My opinion is that the stewards got the call wrong in Hungary and were spot on today in Valencia. Traffic is just a part of qualifying. Cars do not magically disappear, unless you close your eyes and wish really really hard.

[Easy Drifter]

I shudder to think what will happen if there is rain, especially if it happens part way through the race.

[VkmSpouge]

Certainly an entertaining qualifying session. Well done to Felipe Massa for grabbing pole. Both Toro Rossos going very well with Vettel and Bourdais both inside the top ten.

I like the look of the Valencia track and that last bit through those fast turns is very good, I just now hope the circuit provides overtaking opportunities and good racing.

[BDunnell]

McLaren again showing who they favor. They put hard tyres on Kovalainen's car on Q3 against his will and destroyed his chaces against Lewis and anyone else.

That bald dude leading the team should cut the cr*p about two equal drivers

At this stage of the season, if you were 'that bald dude', would you not give preference to one of your drivers given the championship positions?

[Shalafi]

Is there a quote about Kovy's disdain?

I'm searching a lot of familiar websites trying to find a fuming Finn.

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2008/08/691406

Free translation:

-"Soft tires worked better but then the team decided to put harder tires for me. And I couldnt go fast with them."

[Shalafi]

At this stage of the season, if you were 'that bald dude', would you not give preference to one of your drivers given the championship positions?

By destroying other drivers chance in QUALIFYING?! No, I would not, would you?

[Daniel]

I didn't see what happened but there's a difference between giving the championship leader support and torpedoing his team mates chances for no real reason as it sounds like.

[BDunnell]

By destroying other drivers chance in QUALIFYING?! No, I would not, would you?

No, but there must surely have been a reason for the decision — and I don't mean blind favouritism towards Hamilton, before anyone offers that as an opinion. Unfortunately, I can't remember enough about the qualifying/race tyre rules to offer a meaningful view of my own here.

[ioan]

Nicky is bitching about traffic once again.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70013

Heidfeld's statement is laughable! He compared today's qualifying to the incident with Bourdais in Hungary. My opinion is that the stewards got the call wrong in Hungary and were spot on today in Valencia. Traffic is just a part of qualifying. Cars do not magically disappear, unless you close your eyes and wish really really hard.

Glock destroyed one of Heidfeld's and also Piquet's laps with his way of tooling around.

Given the rules, Heidfeld was entitled to complain about it.

[Shalafi]

No, but there must surely have been a reason for the decision — and I don't mean blind favouritism towards Hamilton, before anyone offers that as an opinion. Unfortunately, I can't remember enough about the qualifying/race tyre rules to offer a meaningful view of my own here.

There was no reason. Soft tires had worked better for McLaren all the time, Lewis used them and Heikki wanted to use them and then for the last and deciding lap they put harder tires for Heikki ignoring the fact that he wanted soft tires that worked better. Nuff' said?

[ioan]

I didn't see what happened but there's a difference between giving the championship leader support and torpedoing his team mates chances for no real reason as it sounds like.

Just ask Alonso about his tire pressures in one of last years Q3 sessions! ;)

[ioan]

No, but there must surely have been a reason for the decision — and I don't mean blind favouritism towards Hamilton, before anyone offers that as an opinion.

Heikki's engineer is a moron. Is that a good enough reason? :p :

[BDunnell]

There was no reason. Soft tires had worked better for McLaren all the time, Lewis used them and Heikki wanted to use them and then for the last and deciding lap they put harder tires for Heikki ignoring the fact that he wanted soft tires that worked better. Nuff' said?

You haven't convinced me. As I intimated, doesn't one also have to consider the race?

[BDunnell]

Heikki's engineer is a moron. Is that a good enough reason? :p :

That could be classed a reason, but I'd like to see you say that to his face.

[ioan]

That could be classed a reason, but I'd like to see you say that to his face.

Send him here, it will be a pleasure to do it.

[Daniel]

Me too :)

[52Paddy]

Great practice and qualifying sessions I must say. :up: Really looking forward to tomorrows race.

I must say that I'm very surprised at the pace of Vettel and the Toyotas. They could be on for good results. It looks like Ferrari might snap this one up. Massa and Raikkonen both have good pace at the track, though Massa was a bit shaky at points during the weekend. I don't think Hamilton could match them on pace, his lap times have been good, though I don't think consistant enough. Kubica, Vettel and the Toyotas could also be the surprises of the weekend. Oh, the excitement! :D

[ioan]

You haven't convinced me. As I intimated, doesn't one also have to consider the race?

They have to use both tires during the race, anyway.
Getting a better starting position on a track with little overtaking possibilities is very important, and their tire choice did exactly the opposite.

[Easy Drifter]

There is a limit to the total # of tires a driver may use and of what type. We do not know how many and what type Heikki had used and what were left for the race. This might be the reason for the tire choice. I am not saying this is why, just that this might be the reason. Heikki when he made his comment may not have been aware of the reason if this was it.
If we do not know all the facts we should not jump to conclusions.

[BDunnell]

Send him here, it will be a pleasure to do it.

So you would come straight out and call someone a moron? That's not very polite. Also, I don't think this is important enough a thing to make that sort of thing necessary. It's only F1, you know.

[ioan]

The question is: "what lap will the SC make it's first appearance?".

[BDunnell]

There is a limit to the total # of tires a driver may use and of what type. We do not know how many and what type Heikki had used and what were left for the race. This might be the reason for the tire choice. I am not saying this is why, just that this might be the reason. Heikki when he made his comment may not have been aware of the reason if this was it.
If we do not know all the facts we should not jump to conclusions.

Exactly. :up:

I think some people see things too much in black and white. There are always shades of grey — and reasons beyond stupidity.

[ioan]

So you would come straight out and call someone a moron? That's not very polite. Also, I don't think this is important enough a thing to make that sort of thing necessary. It's only F1, you know.

Oh, there were a few occasion when I would have called the whole Ferrari technical team morons this season.

Sorry for not being polite with the morons, even if I'm trying hard. ;)

[BDunnell]

Oh, there were a few occasion when I would have called the whole Ferrari technical team morons this season.

I hadn't forgotten, don't worry!

[Shalafi]

There is a limit to the total # of tires a driver may use and of what type. We do not know how many and what type Heikki had used and what were left for the race. This might be the reason for the tire choice. I am not saying this is why, just that this might be the reason. Heikki when he made his comment may not have been aware of the reason if this was it.
If we do not know all the facts we should not jump to conclusions.

So McLaren is so stupid team that they let one of their drivers to use all of his better tires that he has to to take worse tires in decisive lap in qualifying. And driver himself doesnt know that at all...just had happily cruised through the weekend using all of his best tires. For sure, this MUST be the reason!!

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2008/08/691406

Free translation:

-"Soft tires worked better but then the team decided to put harder tires for me. And I couldnt go fast with them."Sucks for Hekki!

He'll have to wait until next year for any glory.

[Easy Drifter]

So you know all the facts then. Note I said MIGHT.
Naturally we would not want to have the best sets left for the race would we. Please do not be so dogmatic when not all the facts are known.
I was deeply involved in this sport for over 30 years up to and including F1. I have followed motorsport for over 50 years. Yes I am older than dirt.
What appears to be the case on the surface is not always so. Even what appears in the press is not always right and I have seen several cases of this.
One famous case was when BRM said a retirement was due to electrical failure. When directly asked about this the driver, Chris Irwin, responded with " I guess so. When the connecting rod cut the battery cable there was an electrical failure." :rolleyes:

[gloomyDAY]

One famous case was when BRM said a retirement was due to electrical failure. When directly asked about this the driver, Chris Irwin, responded with " I guess so. When the connecting rod cut the battery cable there was an electrical failure." :rolleyes: lol

We need to be honest. Who is in a better position to win the championship, Ham or Kovy? No one here knows all of the facts surrounding the tire decision, but I'm sure McLaren do not want to jeopardize Hamilton's lead in the championship. Kovy is one fast mother......

[Daniel]

Kovalainen can always move back to help Lewis. But is Lewis retires Kovalainen can't simply move up to take points off his rivals. Bonehead move by the sounds of it.

[Easy Drifter]

Yes it is quite clear Ron Dennis hates Finns. That is why he hires so many of them.

[gloomyDAY]

Kovalainen can always move back to help Lewis. But is Lewis retires Kovalainen can't simply move up to take points off his rivals. Bonehead move by the sounds of it.Good point. Too bad team orders aren't allowed. :p :


Yes it is quite clear Ron Dennis hates Finns. That is why he hires so many of them.LOL!

I wonder what was behind the choice of tires.

[Daniel]

Wheel guns can fail during a pit stop you know ;)

[markabilly]

Stop it
you all know because Uncle Ron said so, that mac is team equality and all drivers except FA agree (and he was just a sore loser).......
if you do not believe Ron, just go ask lauda

[truefan72]

amazing how this thread has moved from a good conversation about the GP weekend, FP's and Quali to a typical Mclaren is favoring Hamilton and "poor" heike is being mistreated thread. With folks having to waste their time rebutting useless accusations rather than focus on the beautiful track and great/close racing.

Let's not go through all the teams and when/what tyres they used at which point for what reason, then develop conspiracy theories for each.

I look forward to a great race tomorrow and hope that most of us can keep our conspiracy theories away in at least onethread and enjoy the maiden Valencia GP.

[BDunnell]

amazing how this thread has moved from a good conversation about the GP weekend, FP's and Quali to a typical Mclaren is favoring Hamilton and "poor" heike is being mistreated thread. With folks having to waste their time rebutting useless accusations rather than focus on the beautiful track and great/close racing.

Let's not go through all the teams and when/what tyres they used at which point for what reason, then develop conspiracy theories for each.

I look forward to a great race tomorrow and hope that most of us can keep our conspiracy theories away in at least onethread and enjoy the maiden Valencia GP.

:up:

[Easy Drifter]

ioan: To answer your question I figure Safety Car on lap 1 or 2 at the latest.
By the way I worked with (gophered for) that bald guy when he had lots of hair (so did I) and he was just a mechanic in the days when the F1 garage was a communal tent! Not only that it leaked and was open on one side.
Some of his attitude probably developed then when team orders were standard and accepted practice. Many moons ago and I haven't seen him for almost as many years.
I must admit to being a McLaren fan but that is because I knew Bruce and was at one time quite friendly with Chris Amon who drove for Bruce then. I didn't race against them but did against people like Chuck Parsons, George Eaton, John Cordts and George Follmer to name a few. Again many many moons ago.

[Daniel]

If you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen :)

[gloomyDAY]

amazing how this thread has moved from a good conversation about the GP weekend, FP's and Quali to a typical Mclaren is favoring Hamilton and "poor" heike is being mistreated thread. With folks having to waste their time rebutting useless accusations rather than focus on the beautiful track and great/close racing.

Let's not go through all the teams and when/what tyres they used at which point for what reason, then develop conspiracy theories for each.

I look forward to a great race tomorrow and hope that most of us can keep our conspiracy theories away in at least onethread and enjoy the maiden Valencia GP.Yes sir!

I hope there's some daylight tomorrow. Things were too gloomy today for qualifying. A little bit of sunlight would brighten up the surroundings and make for a fun and aesthetically pleasing race.

The race: Hamilton will try to jump Massa at the start but fail, therefore, settling for second.

[markabilly]

. I didn't race against them but did against people like Chuck Parsons, George Eaton, John Cordts and George Follmer to name a few. Again many many moons ago.


Name dropper!!

actually I had forgotten about those guys, brings back some memoroes of riverside...u know the shopping mall or whatever.....

[markabilly]

If you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen :)


I have tried. Really hard. Indeed, I have made every effort, but my wife will not let me...

[harsha]

i would expect Lewis to get ahead of Massa at the start...

then the safety car will come into play :D

[ioan]

i would expect Lewis to get ahead of Massa at the start...

then the safety car will come into play :D

Judging by the last race Ferrari have pretty good starts.

Almost forgot, the pole position starting place was moved to the right side of the grid, the cleaner one.

[F1boat]

I hope that Ferrari wins and McLaren loses. But given Hamilton's luck on street courses, he will probably win.

[ioan]

I hope that Ferrari wins and McLaren loses. But given Hamilton's luck on street courses, he will probably win.

Nah, he'll get a puncture at the bridge entry! :D

[Dave B]

The question is: "what lap will the SC make it's first appearance?".

2.

Then at least twice more during the race. The pits are going to be busy, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the order mixed up as a result.

[harsha]

Judging by the last race Ferrari have pretty good starts.

Almost forgot, the pole position starting place was moved to the right side of the grid, the cleaner one.

didn't know that...

thanks for the info :up:

[jens]

How can anyone say that Toyota is a surprise considering how they have been performing recently? :D Actually I was a bit disappointed with P7, because Jarno was a top performer in Q1 and Q2 and Timo didn´t make it into Q3 at all. I´m a bit worried that safety car may play it into the hands of Renault again in the race.

Vettel - an excellent quali. Wonder, whether he made a mistake in Q3 on his last flier. STR´s performance is proving that RB made a wrong choice by switching to Renault engine back in 2007.

It seemed strange that McLaren and Ferrari were a lot more competitive compared to others in Q3 - I wonder whether heavier fuel load simply suits them more or didn´t push to 100% in first two sessions.

[harsha]

i would think they were sandbagging in the first two sessions

[veeten]

interesting... Honda has a 'Grid GUY' for Button.

Progressive, that Honda is... :p :

[harsha]

yeah i was seeing that on the ITV feed :P

guess the grid girl left them for a faster guy :D

[Valve Bounce]

interesting... Honda has a 'Grid GUY' for Button.

Progressive, that Honda is... :p :

What?????

[Valve Bounce]

So! how will Vettel go in the race?

[ArrowsFA1]

Why are the stewards waiting until after the race to look at the Massa/Sutil pitlane incident?

Looks like Ferrari's automated pitlight system needs looking at after Raikkonen's pitlane accident.

[ioan]

Who's the moron who operates the green light in the Ferrari pits?! :mad:

[ioan]

Oups, seems that it was Kimi's fault.

[ArrowsFA1]

Who's the moron who operates the green light in the Ferrari pits?! :mad:
It's automated. Everyone involved in the pitstop presses a button when they're done, and when they're all done the light goes green.

[ioan]

And that was it for the 2nd Ferrari!

Not looking good 2 times in 2 races.

[yodasarmpit]

Who's the moron who operates the green light in the Ferrari pits?! :mad: Just hope the mechanic is alright after that.

Maybe time to go back to the lollipop man.

As for the Massa incident, it wasn't as bad as the commentators are making out, even though it broke the rules. I think it would be a shame if Massa was punished after a stunning drive.

[harsha]

looks like Massa be getting off with a fine..good to see that :up:

[ioan]

It's automated. Everyone involved in the pitstop presses a button when they're done, and when they're all done the light goes green.

The refueler was still coupled. There was something not OK then.

[Daniel]

Hope the mechanic is ok. Hope it's just some cracked ribs at worst.

[harsha]

Rakka's engine blows this time around :(

disaster for ferrari....the constructors championship could be tricky now

[ioan]

They should tell Felipe to conserve his engine as much as possible. He's got 7.5 seconds with only 10 laps to go.

[ioan]

looks like Massa be getting off with a fine..good to see that :up:

It happened several times this season that 2 cars went side by side in the pit box exit, never was anyone punished.

[harsha]

i wouldn't like to see Ferrari being robbed ......

[ioan]

Hope the mechanic is ok. Hope it's just some cracked ribs at worst.

I hope so too. It looked like a pretty bad situation for him.

[ioan]

i wouldn't like to see Ferrari being robbed ......

I wouldn't like to see anyone robbed.

[Daniel]

I don't see why there should be a penalty. He didn't chop adrian and adrian didn't have to move off his line. Cue the bitching from the Hammy fans

[harsha]

er...i'm a Hammy fan.... :p :

[ioan]

er...i'm a Hammy fan.... :p :

One of the fair ones! ;)

[Daniel]

I don't see why there should be a penalty. He didn't chop adrian and adrian didn't have to move off his line. Cue the bitching from the Hammy fans

Right on cue.....

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129044

[F1boat]

I am not surprised that a British fan will love to see Hamilton gifted a win. I am not writing it off as a possibility, but I think that it is more likely that Massa will receive a grid penalty for the next race.

[jens]

Glad to see Massa winning after that harsh luck he suffered in Hungary.
Räikkönen is consistently disappointing.
Toyota - great points and P4 in the WCC seems more secure now! :up: Jarno proved that he is a street circuit specialist.
Nakajima had a fine qualifying (P11 and a tenth behind Rosberg) - shame he messed up the race. Williams more competitive on street circuits, so a point for Nico as a reward after a disappointing season.
Button has recently been comfortably faster than Barrichello.
Force India looked good and seemed capable of matching Honda. :up:
STR - great race by Vettel! :)
Red Bull is constantly moving backwards. Another crash by Coulthard... :rolleyes: But it isn´t a good idea to replace him with Vettel for the end of the season any more, because STR is already better. :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

I am not surprised that a British fan will love to see Hamilton gifted a win.
Any F1 fan should want to see the rules being observed. If a rule was broken then an appropriate penalty should be applied.

I'm just not sure why the stewards have to wait until after the race.

[ioan]

Any F1 fan should want to see the rules being observed. If a rule was broken then an appropriate penalty should be applied.

I'm just not sure why the stewards have to wait until after the race.

What rule was broken?
How many times did we see cars going side by side in the pit lane this season?! How many were punished?

[ioan]

Domenicalli just said that the mechanic is alright, just a bruised ankle!
I thought he broke all his ribs.

[yodasarmpit]

What rule was broken?
How many times did we see cars going side by side in the pit lane this season?! How many were punished?You do realise that ArrowsFA1 was pretty much agreeing with you ioan http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Daniel]

Domenicalli just said that the mechanic is alright, just a bruised ankle!
I thought he broke all his ribs.
I hope that's all it is. I was thinking broken ribs too.....

[Daniel]

You do realise that ArrowsFA1 was pretty much agreeing with you ioan http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Thing is we're used to seeing some very biased comments from people so perhaps Ioan read into Arrows' comments a little too much. Happens to everyone.

I fail to see what was dangerous about what happened. Surely allowing a driver back out on the track to do 200mph is dangerous non?

[ArrowsFA1]

What rule was broken?
We don't yet know if the stewards think a rule was broken, but I would have thought that the one which applies is "It is the responsibility of the Competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so."

[jeffmr2]

What a dissapointing race.I personally think the media are making a big deal out of nothing regarding the massa pit incident to make up for the lack of track action,the drivers sorted it no problem themselves.Hope that ferrari mechanic is ok it looked quite nasty.

[Daniel]

We don't yet know if the stewards think a rule was broken, but I would have thought that the one which applies is "It is the responsibility of the Competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so."
Thing is you can argue that with how small the mirrors are and how little drivers can see that it's very difficult for the pit lane to be totally safe. Sutil doesn't seem to be too bothered by it.

If something had happened and Sutil had been taken out or wheels were banged I'd be all for a penalty but there was nothing particularly dangerous about it IMHO.

[ioan]

We don't yet know if the stewards think a rule was broken, but I would have thought that the one which applies is "It is the responsibility of the Competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so."

I see, fair enough.

What about the precedents? As I said several times in recent times cars went side by side in the pit lane and on the pit exit road. There never was a punishment, because no one cut of the other car. And that's what Felipe did today, he even braked and let Sutil through, repairing the teams fault.

[Daniel]

What a dissapointing race.I personally think the media are making a big deal out of nothing regarding the massa pit incident to make up for the lack of track action,the drivers sorted it no problem themselves.Hope that ferrari mechanic is ok it looked quite nasty.

How dare you accuse the media of that ;) :p

[Daniel]

I see, fair enough.
Now apologise like a good boy ;)

[Robinho]

great drive from Massa, would be very harsh on him personally if he had it taken away from him behind the scenes. didn't seem too much in the incident for me, but if Ferrari are deemed to have released into the path of Sutil then there is a precedent for a penalty, and the fact that they are looking at it after the race indicates that they weren't happy to just it go straight away.
the only thing that might go against them is that Smedley and Massa have both said they had to back off after the car was released to avoid Sutil.

i think they might get a reprimand and possibly a fine, it would be very harsh on Massa to lose the win - of course now they could impose a 6.5 second penalty and he'd still win, but that would look massively fishy, so i hope the FIA don't do something stupid like that.

as for Kimi, bad pace and then went before the green light on the pit release and hurt his fuel man, not a great show from him - i thought it was only Hamilton who was colour blind when it came to pit lights, hope the fuel man is ok, i thought he could have broken a leg.

rest of the race was pretty boring, the track didn't give us much in the way of excitement. at least we get Spa next

[ioan]

Thing is you can argue that with how small the mirrors are and how little drivers can see that it's very difficult for the pit lane to be totally safe. Sutil doesn't seem to be too bothered by it.

If something had happened and Sutil had been taken out or wheels were banged I'd be all for a penalty but there was nothing particularly dangerous about it IMHO.

It was obvious that as soon as he saw Sutil on his side Felipe reacted very wisely by letting him through.

[Robinho]

It was obvious that as soon as he saw Sutil on his side Felipe reacted very wisely by letting him through.

exactly, Massa did the right thing, but what they're looking at is whether the team were right to release him from the pits with another car already there, as Sutil didn't lose time and there was no incident then i'd say yes, although i think Massa's quick reactions may have saved them a potential penalty, if he hadn't seen Sutil so quickly then he may have impeded him and then almost certainly would have received a penalty.

[VkmSpouge]

Excellent race by Felipe Massa, a deserving winner. Lewis Hamilton had quite a boring race in second. Kubica got a good third, still clinging onto the title chase. Yet another blown Ferrari engine, this has to be a big concern for the team. Sebastien Vettel, Timo Glock and Jarno Trulli had good races too.
Oh, more crashes for David Coulthard and Adrian Sutil but that happens every race.

[janneppi]

How many years does Valencia have the race, I can't think of a single reason to go back there? DC was the only one trying to pass, and he DC'd it.
Was there even another attempt to pass in the race?

[ioan]

How many years does Valencia have the race, I can't think of a single reason to go back there? DC was the only one trying to pass, and he DC'd it.
Was there even another attempt to pass in the race?

Nakajima on Barrichello!

[janneppi]

Oh, never mind it then. :)

A glorious race that will set the standard for future track desing and exitement. :D

[ioan]

The track is not bad at all! A high speed track with concrete walls, is something that was needed in F1.

The cars on the other hand are rubbish when we think about overtaking.

[truefan72]

How many years does Valencia have the race, I can't think of a single reason to go back there? DC was the only one trying to pass, and he DC'd it.
Was there even another attempt to pass in the race?

I rather like the track. It has character. The problem with the race was more to do with a predictable order of things ( sanse vetttel)

The Ferrari's were fast all weekend. Massa was clearly very fast and LH wasn't going to reel him in.

Kubica was not going to catch Hamilton.

Kovaleinen proved once again he lacked pace...even to a BMW

Kimi was nursing his engine

Vettel, while doing a great job, doesn't have in th STR the pace to challenge Kimi,

Trulli, rarely overtakes anyone,

Rosberg in the Williams, couldn't push past the Toyota and was never really close enough t make an impact

Glock passed bourdais at the start and maintained a solid gap ahead of him of around 1-3 seconds

RBR's were useless a;ll weekend,

Honda's where the slowest cars out there

Force india's were being force india's

Alonso was involved in an incident with nakajima who ironically provided us with a good pass. Alonso might have pushed his car to challenge those ahead fo him and might have given us some good racing.

Piquet looked out of sorts.


THAT's the issue of the race, not the track or anything it couldn't provide. This could have been the result in 16 of the 18 tracks

There were plenty of of spots for potential overtaking, but nobody was in a position to do so. I hope the tracks stays around for a while. I really like it!

[ioan]

It will stay don't worry.
They have a 7 years deal, I think. From next year on it will be called the "Mediterranean GP". ;)

[Daniel]

Oh, never mind it then. :)

A glorious race that will set the standard for future track desing and exitement. :D

Is Mr Putin standing behind you? :)

[janneppi]

Kovaleinen proved once again he lacked pace...even to a BMW

Kimi was nursing his engine


In the first stint Kubica slowed down due to some problen and Heikki got closer, but couldn't find a spot to get a tow, same with Kimi after that, he was faster than Heikki, but could get in touch with him to get past.
To me it seem there just isn't a long enough straight to get past someone . Sweeping fast corner are just fine and are fun to look at, but help racing only if there is something a driver can use to his advantage. IMO Valencia lacks that.

[52Paddy]

A very dull GP which did not live up to my expectations. I'm very disappointed at that. There was very little over taking and nothing in the way of race long battles for position. I think Massa drove brilliantly, and hopefully he doesn't incur that penalty. In my opinion its a case of "the death penalty for a driving offence" if they take the win off him. A slap on the wrist should be enough. Hamilton simply couldn't match Massa today, no excuses! I have to hand it to Vettel and the Toyotas though. They were on such good form. Jarno and Glock kept it together very nicely and Vettel punched above his weight this time around, hopefully something that is not just a once off. Lots of dull performances too though: Alonso, Barrichello, Coulthard and Heidfeld. Raikkonen too didn't seem arsed about the race either. Even though he could have collected a good few points. And what was he thinking in the pitlane? :eek:

Must hand it to Force India as well. Much better weekend than what their recent form has been :up:

[F1boat]

I am happy with the race because the track is a beauty and Ferrari won.

[Shifter]

The problem with F1 of late is that there's only 20 cars, so that's why the Hungaroring keeps giving good races and places like spa have had dull races. Plain and simple. I haven't seen the GP2 race yet but I'll bet you GP2 once again upstaged the big boys in the "putting on a show" department.

Anyways, congratulations to Felipe Massa for extracting every ounce of performance out of his Ferrari.

[gloomyDAY]

Today could be the springboard for Massa's title.
*fingers crossed*

Hamilton did well and retains the WDC lead. I'm grateful for that feat. As for Vettel, time to shine. I'm not even sure Der Seb would want to go to RBR next year, and as Webber stated, maybe another more lucrative team would be in his best interest.

Too bad I overslept to see the beginning. The time these races begin in the states is ridiculous. 5am here in California! To be honest I should have just slept in and watched the results afterward because I was just bored to tears.

[ShiftingGears]

Next year will be closer, I think. I think the track being new to all the teams accounted for the large field spread quite significantly. That race was the least exciting race of the season.

[Lemmy-Boy]

Another boring F1 race with little excitement.

[Dave B]

After all the hype and in such beautiful surroundings, that was one hell of a dull race :z

[ioan]

After all the hype and in such beautiful surroundings, that was one hell of a dull race :z

Beautiful surroundings?

[pino]

A boring race for me too, apart from Trulli's result :p :

[Dave B]

Beautiful surroundings?
The beach, the harbour and the nearby city; yes. The track itself looked like a building site.

[ioan]

The beach, the harbour and the nearby city; yes. The track itself looked like a building site.

Not to mention the motorway and the huge truck parking near the harbour.

[BDunnell]

I thought the circuit looked ugly on TV — not something that can be said of Melbourne or Montreal — and the cars only really impressive from on-board.

[jens]

I see that the circuit has been criticized. I still think it's a good circuit. The reason, why we didn't see overtaking moves, was because there were rarely any battles going on - gaps with drivers ahead and behind were clear. The only proper pass I can remember was Nakajima on Barrichello (?), which was a nice move, in the last corner if I remember correctly.