[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[PuddleJumper]

Please continue the news & rumours discussion here.

Previous thread:
News & rumours (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112891)

[MikeD]

Gareth Jones will drive his Subaru WRC (run by Dom buckley) in Catalunya & Corsica ... and perhaps in rally GB.

Forum member c4's great rallybuzz site writes that than Anders Grøndal is the favorite to join Mads Østberg in the new M2 team "Adapta Subaru WRT".

Anders Grøndal has 1 WRC event (Rally Norway 2007) to him name where he intered in the Subaru WRC run by the private "Bilbutiken Subaru Team".

I wonder if this this team will be run by Prodrive or by "Team Østberg". Somehow I feel that they will find it very hard to score both driver and manu points.

[anders]

Its true that I could join Mads in the 2.seat in Adapta WRT.
But I need to get al the money from sponsors, so still there is a long way to go.
I have driven more than 1 WRC rally, My first WRC was in 2004 with a N9 Subaru Gr.N. Then I did the swedish rally 2005,2006. In 2006 I also did the Candidate Rally Norway and was 3. overall. We also did Rally Norway 2007. But had gearbox problems from the start and had to retire.
But it`s not what I have done in WRC events that makes them want me in the team, its much more the speed in local events. I just need to get that speed over in the WRC.

The team will be run by Adapta and Prodrive, It means we will use Adapta mechanics. But we will share service area and eat and everything with SWRT. The team will also have engineers from SWRT. The cars will be S14.
Mads has done many WRC now, and they know what it takes to run a WRCar to the finish of a rally. If the drivers do theyr jobb right.
Driving in the WRC is way different from driving a 150km local rally where we just to flat out from the start.
I think the team can score points in Rally Norway and hopefully in some other events as well. For me, if I get the seat I would focus on finishing the events and learn the rallyes berfore the 2010 season. But offcorse its important to show some good speed also! Its a challenge I can`t wait for! Im just have to work hard as h.... to get the sponsorships.

If anyone has a question to me I be happy to answer them.

Best regards
Anders Grøndal

[Viking]

Hope you will find the funding Anders :up: , it would be "helt konge" :champion:

[MikeD]

Its true that I could join Mads in the 2.seat in Adapta WRT.
But I need to get al the money from sponsors, so still there is a long way to go.
I have driven more than 1 WRC rally, My first WRC was in 2004 with a N9 Subaru Gr.N. Then I did the swedish rally 2005,2006. In 2006 I also did the Candidate Rally Norway and was 3. overall. We also did Rally Norway 2007. But had gearbox problems from the start and had to retire.
But it`s not what I have done in WRC events that makes them want me in the team, its much more the speed in local events. I just need to get that speed over in the WRC.

The team will be run by Adapta and Prodrive, It means we will use Adapta mechanics. But we will share service area and eat and everything with SWRT. The team will also have engineers from SWRT. The cars will be S14.
Mads has done many WRC now, and they know what it takes to run a WRCar to the finish of a rally. If the drivers do theyr jobb right.
Driving in the WRC is way different from driving a 150km local rally where we just to flat out from the start.
I think the team can score points in Rally Norway and hopefully in some other events as well. For me, if I get the seat I would focus on finishing the events and learn the rallyes berfore the 2010 season. But offcorse its important to show some good speed also! Its a challenge I can`t wait for! Im just have to work hard as h.... to get the sponsorships.

If anyone has a question to me I be happy to answer them.

Best regards
Anders Grøndal

@ Anders Grøndal,

First of all, it's really cool that you come in here and tell us all the facts.

Sorry, that I said you only had one WRC event - I was only thinking of one WRC event in a WRC car. My bad...

Regarding Adapta ... is that the same as 'Team Østberg'? I have tried to seach the net but haven't been able to find the answer.

Is it possible that you would only do some events with the Adapta team, in case the sponsorship aren't enough for a whole season? - and perhaps share the seat with another driver? ... perhaps with a tarmac driver for the two tarmac events?

[alleskids]

@ Anders. The plan is to do the whole 12/15 rounds seizoen?

[ProRally]

@ Anders Try to do as MANY recce's that you can still this year !!! specially the European rounds

[anders]

Hey again.

Yes, thats true, one WRC event with WRCar.

Yes, Team Østberg and Adapta is the same. The Adapta name has been around for a while. They used to own the cars that Henning Solberg used in the norwegian championship some years ago. Aslo Thomas Schies Ford Focus.
Now they have changed the whole teamname to Adapta WRT.
Most of the mechanics in the team is from a swedish "motorsport mechanics school" Today the team have 4 mechanics working full time.
Today Adapta owns 2x S10 x2 S12b 1xS9 and 1xS7 1x s4 and a Legacy, and a group N Subaru. So the mechanics have someting to do :)

For now they are looking for drivers who can do 10 events or more. So they did now want to talk about driver who wanted to do less events yet.
But if they cant find a 10 event driver they will be looking for drivers who can do less.

Yes, the plan now is for 10 events, but if I get good sponsorships I will do every event.

Yes, I will try to do as many recces as possible, the poor thing is that we have a really busy season here at home now where am looking for medals in Norwegian Rally Championship and Norwegian Hill climp championship.

[bennizw]

Nice to see you writing and answering peoples questions here Anders! It will be interesting to see how the sponsorship work goes on :)

[StevieWonder]

@anders again

thanx a lot joining us and giving us so much information
but as every time money rules in motorsports
nevertheless I wish you all the best to get as much WRC runs as possible and maybe we will meet next year on the stage ;-)

[MikeD]

Hey again.

Yes, thats true, one WRC event with WRCar.

Yes, Team Østberg and Adapta is the same. The Adapta name has been around for a while. They used to own the cars that Henning Solberg used in the norwegian championship some years ago. Aslo Thomas Schies Ford Focus.
Now they have changed the whole teamname to Adapta WRT.
Most of the mechanics in the team is from a swedish "motorsport mechanics school" Today the team have 4 mechanics working full time.
Today Adapta owns 2x S10 x2 S12b 1xS9 and 1xS7 1x s4 and a Legacy, and a group N Subaru. So the mechanics have someting to do :)

For now they are looking for drivers who can do 10 events or more. So they did now want to talk about driver who wanted to do less events yet.
But if they cant find a 10 event driver they will be looking for drivers who can do less.

Yes, the plan now is for 10 events, but if I get good sponsorships I will do every event.

Yes, I will try to do as many recces as possible, the poor thing is that we have a really busy season here at home now where am looking for medals in Norwegian Rally Championship and Norwegian Hill climp championship.

It's really cool that you answer these questions. Thanks for that.

Are you able to tell what kind of money via sponsorships you need to raise for doing 10 events?

I have no idea myself, but my guess would be that one WRC event in a WRC car would cost 150.000-200.000 Euro. Is that completely wrong?

Are you considering a similar thing to what Guy Wilks is doing with his £2000 shares? - I guess there are quite a lot on norwegian rally fans that are looking forward to an all norwegian M2 team - so maybe it would be possible to raise some money from private donations?

PS: I work as a motorsport journalist in GP2, and I know a driver in that series normally needs to raise between 1.0-1.3 million Euro for a full season. (Depending on the team).

[anders]

Thanks :)
No worries, I love rallying and answer the questions is just fun.

About the money I have no comment. Simply because the team don`t want let med tell anyone.

We have some good plans about how we should raise the money. But we need to work hard, and have luck! :)

[COD]

About the Tirabassi deal. I think it is not a choise by Subaru, but rather a commercial deal as they call it

[grugsticles]

anders: I echo everyones comments on being appreciative of your envolvement with the rallying fanbase of the world. That in itself gains you much of my praise and interest.

I can understand and appreciate the fact that you cant comment on the financial side of things, but I must say that every fan wonders just how much top level rallying is out of our financial budget.

Im also relieved to hear that your will be using S14 machinery. I just hope that you are granted the LATEST in technological advancements rather than having dated models like the Stobart/Munchi's boys do.

As far as team structure goes, who will be the boss?
Will David Richards have contol over your team? Im wondering if DR have the power to make your team take time penalties if a SWRT car is in championship contention as Malcom Wilson does with the Ford entrants? Or is it purely whoever is fastest get the priority?

Lastly, any insight to possible car liverty? I know sponsors have a significant input into the final designs and colour schemes, but I wouldnt mind seeing something that actually looks good. For example the old Subaru liverty always looked good as it wasnt a mish-mash of 1000's of colours, but rather the riquired branding all in the same colour. Id love to see a black subaru with intencly bright silver markings (check The Vodaphone cars from Australias V8 Supercars series).

Best of luck with it all!!!

[DonJippo]

Im also relieved to hear that your will be using S14 machinery. I just hope that you are granted the LATEST in technological advancements rather than having dated models like the Stobart/Munchi's boys do.


Being a M2 team has rule based limitations related to LATEST homogolations that can be used, therefore M2 can't always have the latest equipments in their use.

[DonJippo]

About the Tirabassi deal. I think it is not a choise by Subaru, but rather a commercial deal as they call it

My thoughts as well.

[eppel]

Anders, did you not drive Sweden 2006 with the Subaru Impreza WRC?


Hey again.

Yes, thats true, one WRC event with WRCar.

Yes, Team Østberg and Adapta is the same. The Adapta name has been around for a while. They used to own the cars that Henning Solberg used in the norwegian championship some years ago. Aslo Thomas Schies Ford Focus.
Now they have changed the whole teamname to Adapta WRT.
Most of the mechanics in the team is from a swedish "motorsport mechanics school" Today the team have 4 mechanics working full time.
Today Adapta owns 2x S10 x2 S12b 1xS9 and 1xS7 1x s4 and a Legacy, and a group N Subaru. So the mechanics have someting to do :)

For now they are looking for drivers who can do 10 events or more. So they did now want to talk about driver who wanted to do less events yet.
But if they cant find a 10 event driver they will be looking for drivers who can do less.

Yes, the plan now is for 10 events, but if I get good sponsorships I will do every event.

Yes, I will try to do as many recces as possible, the poor thing is that we have a really busy season here at home now where am looking for medals in Norwegian Rally Championship and Norwegian Hill climp championship.

[anders]

Obs.. hehe.

2 wrc events, Sweden 2006 and Rally norway 2007. sorry my bad.
Interested in my results, vistit my webpage:http://www.andersgrondal.com then click in to Anders then "alle resultater"
Im working on a english site now.

About the money, I understand thats something everyone here would like to know. But as long as the team tell me not to say anyting about it. Then I can`t. Sorry.

In the begining Morten Østberg will be my teamboss.
And about stategies, I was promised that I will rund head to head vs Mads Østberg. And there will be no team orders.
Related to the SWRT and strategies, I don`t know.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Im also relieved to hear that your will be using S14 machinery.

Looking by Germany the S12B is better.

[Tom206wrc]

Patrik Sandell on entrylist in a Mitsu Lancer at New-Zealand is normal or mistake from the site ??? :confused:

[alleskids]

@ Anders. I hope you will succeed in finding the budget, because I want to see two young guns promote from slapping each others heads in National championship to racing together in WRC. But do you kow the other favorites for the second seat, in the rare case you cannot find the budget? Does Adapta WRT aim for an All-Norwegian World Rally Team?

[c4]

Suzuki out next year?
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/suzuki-considering-sabbatical-2009-wrc/

[Josti]

Suzuki out next year?
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/suzuki-considering-sabbatical-2009-wrc/

How unexpected...

They have every reason to do so in my opinion.

[A.F.F.]

Suzuki out next year?
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/suzuki-considering-sabbatical-2009-wrc/

Finally....

[Brother John]

Who is the next, the beginning of the end of WRC. :dozey:

[alleskids]

Xavier Pons is having a new try with Subaru, in a sort of Team B Subaru World Rally Team for Catalunya and Corsica.

[gloomyDAY]

Xavier Pons is having a new try with Subaru, in a sort of Team B Subaru World Rally Team for Catalunya and Corsica.Are you serious? :s hock:

Don't people remember this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ4Ozjo3etE&feature=related)

Or this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M79GVdSvOk&feature=related)

[Woodeye]

Are you serious? :s hock:

Don't people remember this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ4Ozjo3etE&feature=related)

Or this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M79GVdSvOk&feature=related)

I think that none is expecting him to perform in any way spectacularly. He just happens to have the money to do this.

[gloomyDAY]

I think that none is expecting him to perform in any way spectacularly. He just happens to have the money to do this.Why is that FACT so frustrating?

[bluuford]

Are you serious? :s hock:

Don't people remember this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ4Ozjo3etE&feature=related)

Or this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M79GVdSvOk&feature=related)

I think that Xevi is actually very good driver. In A8 sometimes he just overdrives it. I remember when he was still in group N machinery. He just wanted to show more than the car was capable. I don't think that he crashes more than latvala for example. Hey guys, we need such kind of drivers as well, otherwise Wilson and Rautenbach look too good drivers.

A few results in group N:
Rally Catalunya 2003
1. Pons
2. Sordo + 3:11.3

ADAC Rally deutchland 2004
1. Pons
2. McShea + 30.4
...
5. Sordo + 3:44.2

Tour de Corse 2004
1. Pons
2. Sordo +33.7

Testra Rally Australia 2004
1. Atkinson
2. Pons +40.5

Rally N-Z 2005
1. Crocker
2. Pons + 07.7
3. Arai + 24.7

So, actually you can see that his results were very good as long as his co-driver was Oriol Julia. After that, everything went worse. And from your video you can see that in Germany he went into the vines because co-driver lost himself. Xevi did very correct thing, he started to scream the legend to make it easier for codriver to find the right page. But codriver acted very wrong, he was afraid of siting beside him. He needs good codriver and the results will come!

[AndyRAC]

Suzuki out next year?
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/suzuki-considering-sabbatical-2009-wrc/

What a shocker, NOT!!

Might be being slightly unfair but they never seemed fully commited like Citroen or Peugeot were when they entered. Chopping and changing engineers, Managers, etc Hardly conducive to a successful team is it?

[Buzz Lightyear]

again, as I said a few month back, they have totally understimated the logisitcs, resources and money involved to compete in WRC. Sure they cancelled any recent testing, so it must have been un the radar for a while now.

[MikeD]

Suzuki out next year?
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/suzuki-considering-sabbatical-2009-wrc/

I honestly think their first full year has been borderline pathetic, so maybe it would be good for them to leave WRC ... before they do more damage to their image.

And I honestly don't care if they are there or not. Instead bring on more serious manufacturers.

[A.F.F.]

I honestly think their first full year has been borderline pathetic, so maybe it would be good for them to leave WRC ... before they do more damage to their image.

And I honestly don't care if they are there or not. Instead bring on more serious manufacturers.

I agree so much I can't even breathe. :up:

[noel157]

So, actually you can see that his results were very good as long as his co-driver was Oriol Julia. After that, everything went worse. And from your video you can see that in Germany he went into the vines because co-driver lost himself. Xevi did very correct thing, he started to scream the legend to make it easier for codriver to find the right page. But codriver acted very wrong, he was afraid of siting beside him. He needs good codriver and the results will come!


No he did not do the correct thing. When co-driver loses his place in the notes driver must slow down until the co-driver finds his place again, otherwise it's accident time. Pons did not slow down and guess what happened.
A good driver knows how to choose and work with the right co-driver.

[bluuford]

No he did not do the correct thing. When co-driver loses his place in the notes driver must slow down until the co-driver finds his place again, otherwise it's accident time. Pons did not slow down and guess what happened.
A good driver knows how to choose and work with the right co-driver.

Well, I called it that sometimes he overdrives it. So, he was probably thinking that it is safe to drive on that speed on this stage, but the corner was a little bit too fast :-) Anyway, we are underestimating the role of the co drivers in this forum:-) This is what I wanted to say!

[jonkka]

And I honestly don't care if they are there or not. Instead bring on more serious manufacturers.

Only quantity matters, the more the merrier. Let Suzuki stay.

[Wim_Impreza]

Only quantity matters, the more the merrier. Let Suzuki stay.

That's my opinion too. Every factory team is welcome, just as each private team for me.

[AndyRAC]

That's my opinion too. Every factory team is welcome, just as each private team for me.

Or change the rules so teams only have to do 50% of the Rallies (for 3-4 years on entering), which isn't ideal, but in the current economic climate maybe a possibility.

[jonkka]

Or change the rules so teams only have to do 50% of the Rallies (for 3-4 years on entering), which isn't ideal, but in the current economic climate maybe a possibility.

Didn't the same story say that the Morrie Chandler is looking for the resurrection of the introductory rule (25-50-75-100% -rule)? Though I didn't know it had been revoked... But yes, that's a good rule if combined with non-scoring scheme so that introductees won't upset the championship for regular campaigners.

[noel157]

Well, I called it that sometimes he overdrives it. So, he was probably thinking that it is safe to drive on that speed on this stage, but the corner was a little bit too fast :-) Anyway, we are underestimating the role of the co drivers in this forum:-) This is what I wanted to say!


No worries, yes, co-drivers are more important than many people think.

[cut the b.s.]

And I honestly don't care if they are there or not. Instead bring on more serious manufacturers.


yeah, like this is an option..........

[Saabaru]

And I honestly don't care if they are there or not. Instead bring on more serious manufacturers.
Contending in the WRC is a serious decision at any level. Much more is the effort they exerted putting two cars in the manufacturer championship. I blame this on the FIA and no one else…

[c4]

Ogier, unsurprisingly, has already tested a C4
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/sebastien-ogier-secret-c4-wrc-test/

[MikeD]

Contending in the WRC is a serious decision at any level. Much more is the effort they exerted putting two cars in the manufacturer championship. I blame this on the FIA and no one else…

Pffff

What a load of BS. FIA is not to blame for Suzuki driving around like sick dogs (to use a N.O.T. Expression). They either underestimated the level of competitiveness or simply didn't have the the right people to build and run a proper WRC rally car.

[MikeD]

From Rallybuzz.com:

Eamonn Boland will run his Subaru Impreza WRC in Catalunya & Rally GB. Car is run by Dom Buckley.

[Torsen]

Pffff

What a load of BS. FIA is not to blame for Suzuki driving around like sick dogs (to use a N.O.T. Expression). They either underestimated the level of competitiveness or simply didn't have the the right people to build and run a proper WRC rally car.

toyota took a VERY long time before they were competive in nascar... now they are doing decent... i think its more that they are really behind & that citroen is just a step ahead of everybody else for some reason...

[A.F.F.]

Pffff

What a load of BS. FIA is not to blame for Suzuki driving around like sick dogs (to use a N.O.T. Expression). They either underestimated the level of competitiveness or simply didn't have the the right people to build and run a proper WRC rally car.

Or maybe just a bad timing?

[Saabaru]

Pffff

What a load of BS. FIA is not to blame for Suzuki driving around like sick dogs (to use a N.O.T. Expression). They either underestimated the level of competitiveness or simply didn't have the the right people to build and run a proper WRC rally car.

Last time I checked they where going to pull out and wait for the FIA to get there crap together on the new regulations. Why should Suzuki waste money developing a car that is going to be obsolete in a year and a half anyway. Truth be told, I don’t see the SX4 ever being competitive. The car is too small, they should have used something like the Reno but that has nothing to do with why they are pulling out now.

If the FIA wants to lower the cost of racing in the WRC then they need to in act a 5 year development rule. Meaning after all the manufactures have spent the money to develop and test a car for new rules, once the new rules are active (like what is suppose to happen in 2010) there is a minimum period of 5 years before the rules can be changed. The cars aren’t that expensive to build, it’s the development and testing that runs the price tag up so much. Something the FIA has done quite often over the past ten years…

Sorry, no BS here….. :)

[Simmi]

toyota took a VERY long time before they were competive in nascar... now they are doing decent... i think its more that they are really behind & that citroen is just a step ahead of everybody else for some reason...

I dont think one year is classed as a very long time. Certainly not in terms of the WRC.

The problem is not only are they behind on pace/development etc, but they dont have any reliability - which comes from testing - and no testing comes from a lack of funds. It's been a poor effort without doubt, but I still cant decide whether it was brave or stupid to come into the WRC as a manufacturer at this stage. Surely they would have been better waiting for the new regs and a clean sheet of paper rather then trying to go up against 3 established rallying marques (at a time when even Subaru cant design a car worth a damn).

They should go away, lick their wounds, learn from their (many) mistakes and come back when the playing field is more level.

[c4]

Stormont confirmed to launch WRC 09
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/stormont-will-launch-the-2009-wrc/

ISC plan WRC street style demos for 09
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/wrc-city-centre-demonstrations-2009/

[Tom206wrc]

Ogier, unsurprisingly, has already tested a C4
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/sebastien-ogier-secret-c4-wrc-test/



Let's hope for a try on a WRC event soon !!! :)

[c4]

Let's hope for a try on a WRC event soon !!! :)

This year's GB perhaps?

[Roy]

ISC plan WRC street style demos for 09
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/wrc-city-centre-demonstrations-2009/

Maybe in cooperation with: http://www.bavariacityracing.nl/EN/ ;)

[StevieWonder]

Patrik Sandell on entrylist in a Mitsu Lancer at New-Zealand is normal or mistake from the site ??? :confused:

according this info, shipping costs for the 207 were too high
so the mitsubishi was hired
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/patrik-sandell-testing-mitsubishi-new-zealand-2008/

[jparker]

I dont think one year is classed as a very long time. Certainly not in terms of the WRC.
The problem is not only are they behind on pace/development etc, but they dont have any reliability - which comes from testing - and no testing comes from a lack of funds. It's been a poor effort without doubt, but I still cant decide whether it was brave or stupid to come into the WRC as a manufacturer at this stage. Surely they would have been better waiting for the new regs and a clean sheet of paper rather then trying to go up against 3 established rallying marques (at a time when even Subaru cant design a car worth a damn).
They should go away, lick their wounds, learn from their (many) mistakes and come back when the playing field is more level.
Well, If Suzuki plans for S2000+, then it's not all lost. Very valuble experience, and and real competition testing. I know testing without knowing the new regulations doesn't make much sense, but I think they had close guess, and thy have identified many weeknesses of the car, which i always beneficial for first time car in WRC

[Finni]

Let's hope for a try on a WRC event soon !!! :)

Let's hope that someone who is entitled gets the drive.

I would rather see someone like Meeke or Hänninen. Those dudes could deliver from the first race. Ogier is still mystery, he could be really good or something like new-Sordo - full mediocrity with wrc car on gravel.

[Viking]

Andreas Mikkelsen says Citroen will test 4 drivers (11 Sept.?),
so Andreas and ???

[alleskids]

Mikkelsen (talent and money to run the car),
Ogier (talent and support from FFSA and Citroen)),
Aigner (Red Bull money and title sponsor for MT2 ?)
Aava (talent and already expierence)

? my 4 toughts

[SubaruNorway]

Aava, Rautenbach and Ogier maybe..

[pettersolberg29]

Aava, Ogier and Mikkelsen are definates I'd have thought.

Rautenbach, Aigner and Vouilloz are the other names I've heard mentioned.

[alleskids]

I cant imagion that Citroen wants to evoluate Rautenbach. He has not shown a decent result. Not decent for Citroen that is. Ford thinks he has done a perfect job earlier this year :)

[N.O.T]

I think that Citroen will hire Ogier and then they will wait for the turist with the highest bid for the 2nd car

[pettersolberg29]

Aava deserves a seat as his pace is top-class - but like JML, he cant finish!

I'd prefer to see Mikkelsen at Ford or in Subaru's 2nd team with Ostberg.

Your right about Rautenbach - forgot the Jordan incident!

[I am evil Homer]

Aava, Ogier and Mikkelsen are definates I'd have thought.

Rautenbach, Aigner and Vouilloz are the other names I've heard mentioned.

Aigner is prob the best bet of the those three with his Red Bull backing. Conrad isn't good enough and Vouilloz as much as I like him isn't either.

[MikeD]

I recall that Colin (WRR) said at Rally Argentina, that the Red Bull deal that Citroën signed would involve Aigner in the future, so I expect the PH-Sport M2 team for 2009 to have 3 drivers (a little like Stobart).

1.) Aava to score points for all rounds.
2.) Aigner to score points for all rounds.
3.) Rautenbach only to score points if any of the above aren't participating.
4.) Ogier only to run on selected events on his first year with a WRC car.


I don't see Mikkelsen in a Citroën...

[c4]

Ostberg has had successful corrective laser eye surgery :)
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/mads-ostberg-laser-eye-treatment-oslo/

[Lalo]

Ostberg has had successful corrective laser eye surgery :)
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/mads-ostberg-laser-eye-treatment-oslo/

My father is an ophtalmologist and it's not a big deal surgery, it's quite easy and safe..

Great to see that Mats had it. There many names in the WRC that had it, like Timo Rautiainen in 2002. Who's next in line? Maybe Latvala, he has almost always driven with glasses.

[dumb]

Sorry guys.It looks like I have missed something.But what Duval doing in New Zealand?Is he going to change Gigi for Stobart?

[Wim_Impreza]

Sorry guys.It looks like I have missed something.But what Duval doing in New Zealand?Is he going to change Gigi for Stobart?

Yes, he is. For sure this rally and maybe in Japan and Wales too. Duval is also nominated for the factory BP Ford Abu Dhabi World Rally Team in Catalunya en Corsica.

[Koppomsbo]

According to this (sorry for not translating, maybe someone else have the time.)

Det er duket for en spennende duell når STCC-sirkuset kommer til Vålerbanen. Norges rallyprins Andreas Mikkelsen har bestemt seg for å måle krefter mot en ekte prins. I en innleid Porsche skal konkurrere mot prins Carl Philip av Sverige.

Prins Carl Philip har valgt å satse på en racingkarriere, og denne sesongen deltar han i den populære Porsche Carrera-cupen. Når STCC-sirkuset kommer til Norge 13. og 14. september er rallytalentet Andreas Mikkelsen klar for å gjøre en gjesteopptreden i en Porsche Carrera GT3 RS.
– Dette blir noe helt annet enn å konkurrere på skogen. Jeg har ikke mye erfaring med asfaltracing, så dette gjør jeg først og fremst for å ha det gøy. Det er vanskelig å si hvor bra jeg kan gjøre det, men det hadde vært moro å slå svenskeprinsen, innrømmer Andreas Mikkelsen med et smil.

Den svenske turboprinsen har tidligere uttalt at han gleder seg til å kjøre billøp i Norge, og han synes helt sikkert at det blir ekstra spennende å konkurrere mot Andreas, som er en av de mest talentfulle rallysjåførene i verden.
– Jeg har aldri tidligere kjørt Porsche på bane og gleder seg til å få muligheten. Jeg tar dette som en morsom avkobling fra rallykjøringen, sier Andreas, som kommer til Våler rett fra test med Citroëns VM-team.
– Det kommer til å bli noen hektiske dager, men moro blir det, slår han fast.


Andreas is going to drive in the Carrera Cup Scandinavia the weekend 13 - 14 september, right after he has arrived home from a test with the Citroen World Rally team

[dumb]

Yes, he is. For sure this rally and maybe in Japan and Wales too. Duval is also nominated for the factory BP Ford Abu Dhabi World Rally Team in Catalunya en Corsica.

Oh yes.Thanks for info.

[alleskids]

It is duket for an exciting duel at STCC-circus is coming to Vålerbanen. Norway's rallyprins Andreas Mikkelsen has decided to measure the forces against a real prince. In a hired Porsche to compete against Prince Carl Philip of Sweden.

Prince Carl Philip has chosen to take a chance on a racingkarriere, and this season he is participating in the popular Porsche Carrera Cup. When the STCC-circus is coming to Canada 13. and 14. september is rallytalentet Andreas Mikkelsen ready to make a gjesteopptreden in a Porsche Carrera GT3 RS.
-- This will be something else than to compete in the forest. I do not have much experience with asfaltracing, so that's what I first and foremost to have fun. It is difficult to say how well I can do it, but it was fun to beat svenskeprinsen, Andreas Mikkelsen admits with a smile.

The Swedish turboprinsen has previously stated that he's excited about to run racing in Canada, and he seems quite certain that it will be exciting to compete against Andreas, which is one of the most talented rallysjåførene in the world.
-- I have never previously run the Porsche on the path and excited to have a chance. I take this as a fun, relaxation from rallykjøringen, "says Andreas, who came to Våler straight from the test with Citroën World Cup team.
-- There will be a few hectic days, but the fun is it, he shut down fast

[Viking]

Your translator translate Norge (Norway) to Canada, ok maybe same climate but.... :D

[alleskids]

I used Google translation. Mikkelsen was called a Swede bij Eurosport. So Norway is the United Nations of the rallyworld. :)

[c4]

Ogier covered 125 miles in his C4 test and described the car as easier to drve than he expected
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/sebastien-ogier-citroen-c4-test-a-dream/

[dumb]

About Deivydas Jocius and Xsara WRC project.

This is from his lips.He said at the interview in rally Aukštaitija in Lithuania last weekend.So he said that he won't run WRC this year.Mainly reason is co-driver changing.Kastytis Torrau won't run in rally anymore so Deivydas now run with Kastytis brother Marius Torrau.

Deivydas said that this year he will try to speak with his new co-driver and try to learn how to run with him.He said that he don't want do this at WRC rally.His plans are about next year.He said that he will do some rallies near Lithuania (personaly I think that is Finland,Poland and some more).He didn't said how many rallies he will do.At the end of this season team will choose rallies to go.Deivydas said that next season he won't run in Lithuania championship.So that thing lets to guess that he will do many rallies in WRC calendar.

Personaly I think that one thing in this project isn't good.The car.Next year car will be quite old and Jocius won't be very fast against drivers who are racing now in WRC.

[dumb]

About Deivydas Jocius and Xsara WRC project.

This is from his lips.He said at the interview in rally Aukštaitija in Lithuania last weekend.So he said that he won't run WRC this year.Mainly reason is co-driver changing.Kastytis Torrau won't run in rally anymore so Deivydas now run with Kastytis brother Marius Torrau.

Deivydas said that this year he will try to speak with his new co-driver and try to learn how to run with him.He said that he don't want do this at WRC rally.His plans are about next year.He said that he will do some rallies near Lithuania (personaly I think that is Finland,Poland and some more).He didn't said how many rallies he will do.At the end of this season team will choose rallies to go.Deivydas said that next season he won't run in Lithuania championship.So that thing lets to guess that he will do many rallies in WRC calendar.

Personaly I think that one thing in this project isn't good.The car.Next year car will be quite old and Jocius won't be very fast against drivers who are racing now in WRC.

[Tom206wrc]

Aava, Ogier and Mikkelsen are definates I'd have thought.

Rautenbach, Aigner and Vouilloz are the other names I've heard mentioned.



Vouilloz :eek:


I'd prefer him to stay in IRC with Peugeot :mark:

[pucky54]

Yes, thats where he belongs. IRC!!!!

[MikeD]

Vouilloz :eek:


I'd prefer him to stay in IRC with Peugeot :mark:

Maybe he's considered for the two tarmac events. Didn't he do quite well in the BSA run Peugeot 307? (I seem to recall he came 4th in one of the tarmac events)

[MikeD]

About Deivydas Jocius and Xsara WRC project.

This is from his lips.He said at the interview in rally Aukštaitija in Lithuania last weekend.So he said that he won't run WRC this year.Mainly reason is co-driver changing.Kastytis Torrau won't run in rally anymore so Deivydas now run with Kastytis brother Marius Torrau.

Deivydas said that this year he will try to speak with his new co-driver and try to learn how to run with him.He said that he don't want do this at WRC rally.His plans are about next year.He said that he will do some rallies near Lithuania (personaly I think that is Finland,Poland and some more).He didn't said how many rallies he will do.At the end of this season team will choose rallies to go.Deivydas said that next season he won't run in Lithuania championship.So that thing lets to guess that he will do many rallies in WRC calendar.

Personaly I think that one thing in this project isn't good.The car.Next year car will be quite old and Jocius won't be very fast against drivers who are racing now in WRC.

No offence, but I doubt that the Xsara is the weakest link in that line-up. That's still one hell of a good rally car.

[Tom206wrc]

Maybe he's considered for the two tarmac events. Didn't he do quite well in the BSA run Peugeot 307? (I seem to recall he came 4th in one of the tarmac events)



He only drove the whale on french tarmac championship :D

Except once in Corsica and was 8th overall before crashing... :mark:

[pettersolberg29]

I did a bit of digging on the subject of the Citroen testing.

Andreas Mikkelsen is taking part as we all know, but he is holding out for a deal in the second Subaru team, or the Munchi Ford team as a replacement for Companc.

As for Vouilloz, he has been considered for next season's opener in Ireland in a privateer C4 to see how he gets on.

Personally I dont understand the decision to give Vouilloz the chance before Ogier but that's life...

[I am evil Homer]

While i agree to an extent Nicolas has at least driven WRC before on tarmac and did pretty well. Has Ogier driven PWRC yet? The set up from a C2 S1600 to a C4 WRC is big and Seb is still young. Better to prepare him properly with a view to a few events in 09 in the C4 than throw him in.

Ogier is the better prospect no doubt but many excellent drivers in lower divisions have fnot lived up to expectations when given a WRC.

[wrc_flipper]

3-2-1 Bonus Points system could be introduced in 2009. Based on that days performance of each crew

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70242

I like that idea!

Very good Q&A session at http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70243 with WRC's Morrie Chandler.

[MikeD]

3-2-1 Bonus Points system could be introduced in 2009. Based on that days performance of each crew

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70242

I like that idea!

Very good Q&A session at http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70243 with WRC's Morrie Chandler.

I hate the idea.

Stop trying to fix issues that aren't working by adding other stupid rules. Instead fix or remove rules that aren't working.

[Buzz Lightyear]

keep running order they way it is, and introduce bonus. everyone driing flat out all the time. whats wrong with that?

ps. would bonus points only be available to superally runners or everyone?

[MikeD]

While i agree to an extent Nicolas has at least driven WRC before on tarmac and did pretty well. Has Ogier driven PWRC yet? The set up from a C2 S1600 to a C4 WRC is big and Seb is still young. Better to prepare him properly with a view to a few events in 09 in the C4 than throw him in.

Ogier is the better prospect no doubt but many excellent drivers in lower divisions have fnot lived up to expectations when given a WRC.

To be honest I don't see why Ogier should waste his talent in PWRC. Let him test the C4 a couple of times to see how well he adapts, and after the first test he looks quite promising.

No doubt that Citroën has a plans with him, so let him run a Xsara or a C4 without the burden of scoring M2 points next year.

I have high hopes for him and I think he will do well on many of the events. He might crash now and then, but I feel that he will progress faster than most normal WRC drivers.

[MikeD]

He only drove the whale on french tarmac championship :D

Except once in Corsica and was 8th overall before crashing... :mark:

It must be my memory :D But wasn't there some french tarmac specialist who scored a 4th place in a BSA or Bozian run Peugeot 307 a couple of years ago?

[koko0703]

If that's what manufacturers want, I'd say give it a try although I'm not sure how the result will change with that system.

Loeb just scores 19 pts instead of 10 pts??? Hehehehe.... :D

[RS]

Sounds like more rewards for the drivers and crews that can't finish rallies.

But if this was just for superalliers and it meant they weren't allowed to score main points too then I would be for it.

[A.F.F.]

Hmmm if you're fast for one day, you can score 3 points. If you're consistent for the whole rally and drive three days, you can score 1 point.

I smell trouble.

[pettersolberg29]

It must be my memory :D But wasn't there some french tarmac specialist who scored a 4th place in a BSA or Bozian run Peugeot 307 a couple of years ago?

That was Bengue!

[RS]

Hmmm if you're fast for one day, you can score 3 points. If you're consistent for the whole rally and drive three days, you can score 1 point.

I smell trouble.

JML for 2009 champion ;)

[pettersolberg29]

I think if the 3-2-1 scheme is used, then each driver should get a limit of a maximum of 4 bonus points, otherwise in Germay for example, Loeb could win easily, get 10 points, and then another 9 for excelling in all 3 days. That would be a bit unfair IMO.

[AndyRAC]

Hmmm if you're fast for one day, you can score 3 points. If you're consistent for the whole rally and drive three days, you can score 1 point.

I smell trouble.

Yet another hair-brained idea, where on earth do they get these ideas from. We've had a similar idea before, remember the points from the Live TV stages - what a farce that was.

Instead of coming up with stupid ideas, get to the crux of the problem - the S2000/Global Promoter problem. Once these problems are sorted and there is a decent WRC we won't need these silly ideas.
Sorry to say, but Morrie Chandler is beginning to disappoint me.

[DonJippo]

Sorry to say, but Morrie Chandler is beginning to disappoint me.

Did someone expect else?

[Sulland]

3-2-1 Bonus Points system could be introduced in 2009. Based on that days performance of each crew

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70242

I like that idea!

Very good Q&A session at http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70243 with WRC's Morrie Chandler.

This removes the whole endurance perspective of rally, and makes it into 3 sprints. Then IRC is on a better track of reintroducing the longer classics as they used to be years ago. Taking care of your car over the whole rally is also part of the game ! Remove Superally and let the drivers feel the consequence of going off !

[DonJippo]

Then IRC is on a better track of reintroducing the longer classics as they used to be years ago.

IRC can't over rule FIA regulations concerning length of competitive mileage.

[Saabaru]

3-2-1 Bonus Points system could be introduced in 2009. Based on that days performance of each crew

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70242

I like that idea!

Very good Q&A session at http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70243 with WRC's Morrie Chandler.
Sounds like another way for the FIA to play favorites.

[Saabaru]

IRC can't over rule FIA regulations concerning length of competitive mileage.
If they go independent they can do whatever they want.

[ShiftingGears]

I hate the idea.

Stop trying to fix issues that aren't working by adding other stupid rules. Instead fix or remove rules that aren't working.

It is a stupid rule, which is assisting, along with various other FIA rulings, in turning the WRC into more of a joke. If the FIA actually invested in the WRC they'd have more manufacturers so noone would care about the lack of cars restarting under superally anyway. My impression of Chandler is not a good one.


Morrie Chandler, WRC rallies commission president: To me, it doesn't make sense. You take the very best driver and you rearrange him so he actually gets the best opportunity on the roads so you're actually widening the gap instead of closing the gap.

I'm sure there will be a big debate on it at the rallies commission meeting next month.


And there you have it. He just doesn't get it.

[DonJippo]

If they go independent they can do whatever they want.

Independent in what way, without FIA? Will not.

[AndyRAC]

It is a stupid rule, which is assisting, along with various other FIA rulings, in turning the WRC into more of a joke. If the FIA actually invested in the WRC they'd have more manufacturers so noone would care about the lack of cars restarting under superally anyway. My impression of Chandler is not a good one.



And there you have it. He just doesn't get it.


Completely beggars belief that this guy is 'in charge'. Every few months a new crazy idea comes out; Winter WRC, Bonus points, drive blindfolded,etc
If I was a Manufacturer interested in the WRC I'd be extremely worried about this bloke - all these supposed changes every few months - not what you want for a stable & successful WRC.

[jacko]

Both Ford and Citroen are keen to add at least 1 extra round in 2009 & 2010.
For next year it will be Corsica and in 2010 the rally of GB.
Both manufacturers never wanted to have only 12 rounds. They want even more rally's in country's which are good for marketing exposure.
Question to them: why now screaming and not back a year ago to the FIA :confused:

[Roy]

Rally schedule 2009 van merksteijn Motorsport

Rallysport 2009 WRC Program

30 januari - 1 februari Rally Ireland Sligo, Ierland
13/15 februari Rally Norway Hamar, Noorwegen
3/5 april * Rally de Portugal Faro, Portugal
22/24 mei Rallye d'Italia-Sardegna Olbia, Sardinië
26/28 juni Rally Poland Mikolajki, Polen.
31 juli - 2 augustus Rally Finland Jyväskylä, Finland
2/4 oktober Rally de España Salou, Spanje
23/25 oktober Wales Rally GB Swansea. Engeland


* TBA

[bluuford]

I come back to my suggestion. I think that Bonus points is very bad idea. I just looked for example last year Sardegna rally. With clean roads you can be much faster. So, I take the final positions and look what happens in extreme tactics, lets say that after the first day Loeb leads, Grönholm is second and Sordo third. And for example, Hirvonen, Henning and Petter decide to retire two stages before the end of first day.. to save their engine and cars. So, They get 10 minutes penalties but for the Bonus they will get very good road position.
Lets say that second day results will be Hirvonen 3 points, Petter 2 points Henning 1 point.
Third day: Hirvonen gets 3 points, Petter 1 and Henning 2 points.
In the end classification, Loeb retired on the first stage of the last day, So, he gets 3 points from the first day, Grönholm gets 12 points, 10 for win and 2 for second place at the end of firts day,
Sordo is second and gets 8 points + 1 from the third place at the end of first leg so, 9 points in total. , but what comes now is really stupid thing. If you lok at the time differences then those three guys get 5th 6th and 7th place respectively.
That mean hirvonen gets 3+3+4=10 points, Solberg gets 2+1+3= 6 points and henning gets 1+2+2= 5 points and and Hanninen gets the last point.
So, the end result will be
1.Grönholm 12 points
2. Sordo 9 points
3. Gardemesiter 6 points
4. Stohl 5 points
5. Hirvonen 10 points
6. Petter 6 points
7. Henning 5 points
8. Hänninen 1 points
DNF Loeb 3 points

It does not look good, if 5th place finisher gets more points than second place finisher :-) At the same time petter gets same amount of points as the third place finisher:-)

The best solution like I said, top 4 starting order for the next day will be decided according to the drawing lots. Or top four will be reversed order of the last SSS of the previous day if it is on the program. Then we can achieve what we want. No tactics, better road conditions for the beginners and slow runners and push to the maximum on the SSS :-)

[AndyRAC]

Both Ford and Citroen are keen to add at least 1 extra round in 2009 & 2010.
For next year it will be Corsica and in 2010 the rally of GB.
Both manufacturers never wanted to have only 12 rounds. They want even more rally's in country's which are good for marketing exposure.
Question to them: why now screaming and not back a year ago to the FIA :confused:

While the F1A aren't much good at running the sport, the Manufacturers are not going to be much better having a greater say in the future - if there is one. What is to stop them wanting 3 stages repeated 4/5 times all in a small area, cutting down on road time - meaning they can have more rallies. 12 Rallies is what the format should be - averaging 1 a month.

[MikeD]

Rally schedule 2009 van merksteijn Motorsport

Rallysport 2009 WRC Program

30 januari - 1 februari Rally Ireland Sligo, Ierland
13/15 februari Rally Norway Hamar, Noorwegen
3/5 april * Rally de Portugal Faro, Portugal
22/24 mei Rallye d'Italia-Sardegna Olbia, Sardinië
26/28 juni Rally Poland Mikolajki, Polen.
31 juli - 2 augustus Rally Finland Jyväskylä, Finland
2/4 oktober Rally de España Salou, Spanje
23/25 oktober Wales Rally GB Swansea. Engeland


* TBA

Will that be for both Snr & Jr?

And are 8 events in the 12 event schedule enough to enter as an M2 Team? (Because I thought that was van merksteijn's plan for 2009)

[Tazz]

Here in SA the top 8 at the end of day 1 is shuffled. Leader gets to pick where he wants to start, then the second placed driver etc. On dry smooth rallies the running order normally ends up reversed. It seems to work quite well.

[Roy]

Will that be for both Snr & Jr?

And are 8 events in the 12 event schedule enough to enter as an M2 Team? (Because I thought that was van merksteijn's plan for 2009)

The plan is more rally experience for son. If Sr is not racing le mans series he doing rally.

I think there is no change of a Merksteijn manufacturer team.

[c4]

Will that be for both Snr & Jr?

And are 8 events in the 12 event schedule enough to enter as an M2 Team? (Because I thought that was van merksteijn's plan for 2009)

8 events is enough to qualify as a MT next year and I still think that will be the case if there are 13 events in 2009.

[Saabaru]

Independent in what way, without FIA? Will not.
They could if they wanted to. The IRC has grown and in some ways appeals more to people than the WRC. If they told the FIA to take a hike and got a little more creative thay could be the worlds premier rally championship within a few years. It wouldn't take much the way the WRC is right now.

[Torsen]

They could if they wanted to. The IRC has grown and in some ways appeals more to people than the WRC. If they told the FIA to take a hike and got a little more creative thay could be the worlds premier rally championship within a few years. It wouldn't take much the way the WRC is right now.

maybe... the reason I enjoy rally is to see cars that are fair beyond that of normal cars... AWD turbo beasts... straight up S2000 cars are slow and boring... I can't see the appeal for IRC... just because citroen is owning the rest of the manufactures doesn't mean anything is broke... it just means citroen is a better rally team...

[RS]

maybe... the reason I enjoy rally is to see cars that are fair beyond that of normal cars... AWD turbo beasts... straight up S2000 cars are slow and boring... I can't see the appeal for IRC... just because citroen is owning the rest of the manufactures doesn't mean anything is broke... it just means citroen is a better rally team...

S2000 cars are neither slow nor boring. Remember Grp N. Lancers are AWD and turbo and much slower than S2000 cars now. S2000 has made a lot of progress in the last year or so and I expect that to continue next year when hopefully Skoda and Peugeot will push each other on.

Obviously WRCars are faster than S2000 cars and always will be, but I find modern WRCars very boring to watch. I honestly don't think the average man on the street would notice a great deal of difference watching S2000 compared to WRC, at least on TV.

I would be quite happy to see S200turbo as originally propsed however as this should be more spectacular to watch than either current World Rally Cars or S2000. But it sounds like the formulae the manufacturers want is moving far too close to the current WRCars now anyway.

They need to get it sorted and soon! It seems as if there are 3 of the 4 WRCteams continued participation is under question at the moment.

[Simmi]

I dont know if someone has mentioned anything similar, but this is just a possible idea for the road position problem.

Seen as most rallies seem to have some sort of Super Special at the end of Day 1 and 2, why not increase the spectacle of what are simple run around stages and use them in some way to decide road positions.

Maybe you could have the top 8 cars have a type of shootout on a short spectator stage. The driver with the fastest time gets to pick their road position, the second gets to pick next and so on. The times on the special stage just get added to the overall rally time as is the case now. Obviously someone from outside the top 8 could win the stage, but this whole idea would be just for setting the top eight places on the road.

I think this would be good because it encourages drivers to go flat out, which is always a good thing in my opinion. It also places more emphasis on stages that have become boring to most rally fans. The layout of a super special means their can be no underhand tactics.

This rule isn't really much of a stretch to implement in my eyes. A lot of the tarmac rallies dont have SSS's but road sweeping is no a problem on these events.

[Tomi]

Hänninen will drive in Spain and Corsica.

[Torsen]

S2000 cars are neither slow nor boring. Remember Grp N. Lancers are AWD and turbo and much slower than S2000 cars now. S2000 has made a lot of progress in the last year or so and I expect that to continue next year when hopefully Skoda and Peugeot will push each other on.

Obviously WRCars are faster than S2000 cars and always will be, but I find modern WRCars very boring to watch. I honestly don't think the average man on the street would notice a great deal of difference watching S2000 compared to WRC, at least on TV.

I would be quite happy to see S200turbo as originally propsed however as this should be more spectacular to watch than either current World Rally Cars or S2000. But it sounds like the formulae the manufacturers want is moving far too close to the current WRCars now anyway.

They need to get it sorted and soon! It seems as if there are 3 of the 4 WRCteams continued participation is under question at the moment.

that is a good point... i just see the way the S2000 cars pull away out of a slow turn and they engine screams but no torque... it depresses me...

[SubaruNorway]

Just watching the "eye in the sky" from Rally NZ now, i doubt that you will get these kinda slides with an S2000 car...

[A.F.F.]

that is a good point... i just see the way the S2000 cars pull away out of a slow turn and they engine screams but no torque... it depresses me...

Funny. The clip I saw from Fabia S2000 test seemed pretty good. It took the tarmac hairpins with a slide and didn't seem suffering "no torque".

Apparently, what you loose with the engine, you fix with a glove...

[DonJippo]

Funny. The clip I saw from Fabia S2000 test seemed pretty good. It took the tarmac hairpins with a slide and didn't seem suffering "no torque".

Apparently, what you loose with the engine, you fix with a glove...

Apparently, what you loose with the engine, you fix with gear rations...still lacking torque these 2.0l N/A engines.

[sollitt]

Did someone expect else?

I guess it's only to be expected that Morrie Chandler would get lambasted on this forum. After all everyone from Balestre to the Easter Bunny have been bagged here.

Knowing Morrie, as I have for many years, as a seasoned competitor, astute businessman, inspirational leader and experienced administrator I was hoping for some positive change when he took the reigns.

I too am disappointed that the sport continues to be tinkered with at this level with some totally off the wall ideas emerging. But unsure how much autonomy Morrie has or how much these visions are generated or influenced by other quarters I'm equally unsure how much blame can apportioned.

Perhaps that's why he's looking to stand down next year at which time, no doubt, there'll be yet another lamb led to the slaughter.

[Saabaru]

maybe... the reason I enjoy rally is to see cars that are fair beyond that of normal cars... AWD turbo beasts... straight up S2000 cars are slow and boring... I can't see the appeal for IRC... just because citroen is owning the rest of the manufactures doesn't mean anything is broke... it just means citroen is a better rally team...
Thus the creative part I was talking about. Put a turbo or compressor under the hood, that's all it would take to wake up an S2000.

[RS]

Apparently, what you loose with the engine, you fix with gear rations..

Exactly. The Fabia also has a long stroke engine which is good for low and mid range torque.

But I bet you we see more sliding round the hairpins at Monte Carlo 2009 than we did in 2008....

[AndyRAC]

I guess it's only to be expected that Morrie Chandler would get lambasted on this forum. After all everyone from Balestre to the Easter Bunny have been bagged here.

Knowing Morrie, as I have for many years, as a seasoned competitor, astute businessman, inspirational leader and experienced administrator I was hoping for some positive change when he took the reigns.

I too am disappointed that the sport continues to be tinkered with at this level with some totally off the wall ideas emerging. But unsure how much autonomy Morrie has or how much these visions are generated or influenced by other quarters I'm equally unsure how much blame can apportioned.

Perhaps that's why he's looking to stand down next year at which time, no doubt, there'll be yet another lamb led to the slaughter.

I suspect that he is merely the F1A's puppet - these are their ideas, but he announces them to see how the teams react. As surely as someone with WRC's best interests can see these ideas are crazy.
DR was another who came up with ideas as the rights holder, the changes for TV/Media - they worked in the short term, but in the end the Championship is poorer for the loss of the character the sport had.

[Mirek]

But I bet you we see more sliding round the hairpins at Monte Carlo 2009 than we did in 2008....

Have You ordered some snow? :s mokin:

[Tomi]

I suspect that he is merely the F1A's puppet - these are their ideas,

Really are you sure? I understand his main job is to present FIA the ideas that comes from the rally comission, so if you present idiotic suggestions you get idiotic solutions too, what we need is some guy who understand about rally and do not take all stupid ideas to FIA, a guy who is capable to filter the stupid from good ideas.
What again comes to him sending e-mails to teams about their drivers haircut is nothing but stupidity.
The sport needs a promotor, then we get rid of political compromises like Mehta and Chandler.

[Leon]

Anyone Knows or remember why the french guy from FFSA (don´ t remember his neme) left FIA -rallies commission.

Think it was for the same reasons i.e. wanted him as a puppet

[AndyRAC]

Really are you sure? I understand his main job is to present FIA the ideas that comes from the rally comission, so if you present idiotic suggestions you get idiotic solutions too, what we need is some guy who understand about rally and do not take all stupid ideas to FIA, a guy who is capable to filter the stupid from good ideas.
What again comes to him sending e-mails to teams about their drivers haircut is nothing but stupidity.
The sport needs a promotor, then we get rid of political compromises like Mehta and Chandler.

No, I'm not sure, but knowing what the F1A are like and how seriously they take the WRC who knows.
Personally , any new Promoter is not going to have a free reign like Bernie does with F1. Anything that looks too exciting won't be allowed. Look what has happened previously to World Sportscars and WRC - anything that threatens F1 is killed.
There was not a lot wrong with WRC 10-15 years ago - just a bit of fine tuning. Now look, almost dead in the water.

[Saabaru]

No, I'm not sure, but knowing what the F1A are like and how seriously they take the WRC who knows.
Personally , any new Promoter is not going to have a free reign like Bernie does with F1. Anything that looks too exciting won't be allowed. Look what has happened previously to World Sportscars and WRC - anything that threatens F1 is killed.
There was not a lot wrong with WRC 10-15 years ago - just a bit of fine tuning. Now look, almost dead in the water.
So why won't anyone step up a tell the FIA to take a hike? What will it take before the people in World Rally wakeup. The IRC is in the best position to do something great but they are stuck on S2000 and seem perfectly content under the FIAs oversight.

Wakeup People!!!

[sollitt]

What makes you think anything will be any different anywhere else? Despite Tomi's remarks, rather than being "political compromises", Mehta & Chandler were probably, on paper, two of the most qualified people to run the WRC. If they can't pull it off to your satisfaction then who can? What will a change of controlling body do when the problem likely lies elsewhere?

[Saabaru]

The problem with the WRC is the connection with the FIA. The FIA has been supressing the WRC ever since 1986, it is a connection that needs to be severed immediately.

[AndyRAC]

The problem with the WRC is the connection with the FIA. The FIA has been supressing the WRC ever since 1986, it is a connection that needs to be severed immediately.

The F1A are the governing body of World Motorsport - you can't just 'jump ship'. It would help if there was a 'Rally friendly' President - at the moment the impression is that the WRC is an irrelevance.

[Saabaru]

The F1A are the governing body of World Motorsport - you can't just 'jump ship'. It would help if there was a 'Rally friendly' President - at the moment the impression is that the WRC is an irrelevance.
So European countrys require FIA oversight? Is it in the European Union or something? I'm from the America where the F1A is a choice not a requirement. How does the F1A have a stranglehold on the world? :confused:

[Donney]

It does on the motorsport world, at least in Europe, as well FIFA has in football (soccer)

[Saabaru]

It does on the motorsport world, at least in Europe, as well FIFA has in football (soccer)
But what countries require FIA oversight? I don't understand their stranglehold on motor sports.

[Tomi]

It would be alsmost impossible to drop FIA, all championships in the world runs under FIA, and the national federations as well somehow are tight to FIA too.

[Saabaru]

Why would it be inpossible? What is the overwhelming infulence that the FIA possesses that can't be severed? If a new independent world rally commission was started how could they impose their oversight on them?

[Tomi]

Why would it be inpossible? What is the overwhelming infulence that the FIA possesses that can't be severed? If a new independent world rally commission was started how could they impose their oversight on them?

Who would choose the new independent rally comission??
I think its better to stay under FIA, because the organisation is already there, and skipping FIA would also mean to rebuild all national organisations too, that would take years, much better would be to get a promoter who dont feel he ows people something because he was elected, like the situation seems to be now.

[Saabaru]

Who would choose the new independent rally comission??
I think its better to stay under FIA, because the organisation is already there, and skipping FIA would also mean to rebuild all national organisations too, that would take years, much better would be to get a promoter who dont feel he ows people something because he was elected, like the situation seems to be now.
So stay under the 20+ years of oppression like we have now? That sounds real productive. If there isn’t a problem then don’t fix it, but guys we have a problem!

[Tomi]

So stay under the 20+ years of oppression like we have now? That sounds real productive. If there isn’t a problem then don’t fix it, but guys we have a problem!

sad that you have had so long oppression, but it is the rally comission that suggest FIA if they want changes, if they make stupid suggestions they get stupid changes, that wont change with a "independent" comission because the same guys would propably sit in the "independent" comission too, because after national federations would have cut the work with FIA, the same people would still work in the national federations, and the comission is people from national federations.

[Saabaru]

Who would choose the new independent rally comission??
An auto association here in the U.S. (NASA or National Auto Sport Association) got into rally a few years ago and started from nothing; new rallies, new organizers and everything. Now Rally America feels threatened by them and they host the oldest events in the country. Anything is possible, the only thing stopping change is the people who are scared of it.

[Tomi]

An auto association here in the U.S. (NASA or National Auto Sport Association) got into rally a few years ago and started from nothing; new rallies, new organizers and everything. Now Rally America feels threatened by them and they host the oldest events in the country. Anything is possible, the only thing stopping change is the people who are scared of it.

lol, sure yes, better to find a little better examples, if you have nothing its very easy to skip it and start from 0.

[Roy]

So stay under the 20+ years of oppression like we have now? That sounds real productive. If there isn’t a problem then don’t fix it, but guys we have a problem!

Do you know how solve the 'problem'?

[L5->R5/CR]

An auto association here in the U.S. (NASA or National Auto Sport Association) got into rally a few years ago and started from nothing; new rallies, new organizers and everything. Now Rally America feels threatened by them and they host the oldest events in the country. Anything is possible, the only thing stopping change is the people who are scared of it.


You are missing some big parts of history.

NASA was formed in 1991. They didn't start doing anything for rallies until around 2002.

NASA was not founded to run rallies. NASA RallySport was, but, NASA was not.

NASA RallySport was formed out of a dissatisfaction with the SCCA (much like the IRC was formed out of a dissatisfaction with the WRC). NASARS events run very similarly to RallyAmerica events, because organizers are organizers. There are fundamental differences that the alignment with NASA proper requires, some different safety regulations, fairly different classing, and some other structural differences.

The big difference is a perceived difference between organizing philosophies. Arguably, Rally-America is handicapped by having inherritted a national championship based program. NASA as a ground up organization has built themselves as a network of rallies. Come people perceive this as being more focused on the clubmen. The reality is that NASA isn't more or less focused on clubmen, the truth is that they don't have anything else to focus on (like a national championship).

As far as the FIA alignment issue.

The US has for the main part gone on its own for many many years in motorsports organization. Heck, most people into motorsport in the US couldn't even tell you who the FIA member body organization is here in the US. Many overseas governing bodies utilize the FIA for class structure (to promote competition in other countries) but also for validation as a legitimate governing body. Organizing an event in many countries could be all but impossible without the support and approval of the motorsport governing body (least of which might financial or infrastructure support that events rely on).

The reality is that the FIA for most of the world serves the same purpose as groups like the SCCA, NASA, or NASCAR, serve in the US. The FIA is the validation vehicle for many overseas governing bodies and those governing bodies are key to many rallies. Without the FIA those governing bodies might not be able or willing to support their championship events.

Which would be worse? A poorly run WRC, or a WRC with no events?

[Saabaru]

People talk about the cars being boring but you want to keep the same people who made it this way in the first place and won’t allow change (just wait and see how boring it gets if they inflect S2000 on the WRC).

You talk about the FIA keeping a new promoter on a tight leash, not letting them do anything that might infringe on their precious F1’s glory but don’t want to do anything to change it.

No wonder world rally is on the edge of oblivion….

[Tomi]

People talk about the cars being boring but you want to keep the same people who made it this way in the first place and won’t allow change.

No, I asked you who would choose the "independent" comission.

[Saabaru]

You are missing some big parts of history.

NASA was formed in 1991. They didn't start doing anything for rallies until around 2002.

NASA was not founded to run rallies. NASA RallySport was, but, NASA was not.

Which would be worse? A poorly run WRC, or a WRC with no events?
I know the histroy of NASA and NASARallySport, thanks for varifying my point.

Which would be better? A poorly run WRC under the FIAs oversight, or a self promoting self governing WRC that reaps it's own rewards of success.

[Saabaru]

No, I asked you who would choose the "independent" comission.
Well I would think it would be the people putting millions upon millions of dollars/euros/yen into world rally every year.... Ford, Subaru, Citroen, Skoda, Peugeoet, Mitsubishi, Fiat, Opel, etc, etc, etc,

[Tomi]

Well I would think it would be the people putting millions upon millions of dollars/euros/yen into world rally every year.... Ford, Subaru, Citroen, Skoda, Peugeoet, Mitsubishi, Fiat, Opel, etc, etc, etc,

It would not be an independent comission then, it would be a comission of the manufacturers.

[Saabaru]

It would not be an independent comission then, it would be a comission of the manufacturers.
No... But it has to start somewhere and they are the ones dumping money into the sport handover fist. Who would you suggest?

[Tomi]

No... But it has to start somewhere and they are the ones dumping money into the sport handover fist. Who would you suggest?

I would leave the comission the way it is, but i would get a promotor choosed by the manufacturers to run the ideas between the different parts (comission,manufacturer,FIA), the biggest problem i think has been too many rule changes, the manufacturers cant adapt if they dont know whats happens in next coming few years, also the rules should be thinked over properly before they are adapted ( maybe tested first on national level too), a good example is to ban the mousse tyre, it was supposed to save money, but now already cost more money to the teams. Also it would be good if they could find a solution to make it easier for new manufacturers to join, but the big teams dont want to make it easier for them now.
Also the event organisers should be obligated to make their events more public friendly so that the event attracts more people, and I dont mean building water splashes or 2m snowbanks, but better facilities, transportation to the stages and so on.

[xavier]

I know the histroy of NASA and NASARallySport, thanks for varifying my point.

Which would be better? A poorly run WRC under the FIAs oversight, or a self promoting self governing WRC that reaps it's own rewards of success.

Well, the title of world champion should be given by an official body. I live in the US so so i know how, here, we're quick to give the title of "world Champion" for the winner of privately run events (Super Bowl, World Serie, and even in rally (I hope Pastrana updated his web site)).

Same thing happended in Chess when Kasparov broke away from the FIDE. He ultimatly (granted after losing "his" title) acknowledged this was a mistake. Even though everyone was recognizing him in the 93-00 period as a the best player, he was not the official world champion.

Actualy, I dont like the FIA any more than I like the FIDE. Though, they are the governing body of the sport. Things can be changed democractly: the FIA board is elected from FIA member (at least i think it's the way it works). So presure your National federation to elect a better one next time around!

I guess that it is daydreaming and corruption run probably as deep in the FIA than the FIDE. But even if IRC, for instance, become popular and the best drivers go there, the winner of the serie will not be the world champion.

[sollitt]

Saabaru, I would like to know more about this 20 years of oppression/suppression that rallying has suffered at the hands of the FIA. Please elaborate.

[Saabaru]

Well, the title of world champion should be given by an official body. I live in the US so so i know how, here, we're quick to give the title of "world Champion" for the winner of privately run events (Super Bowl, World Serie, and even in rally (I hope Pastrana updated his web site)).

Pastrana and his shameless self promoting web site is just that; shameless, tasteless self promotion. And you shouldn't reference the entire country as being as tastless as one person. And the title of world champion should be where the best of the best are racing, under whatever sanctioning body they are racing. If all the big boys in the WRC went to the IRC next year, which series do you think everyone would watch?


Saabaru, I would like to know more about this 20 years of oppression/suppression that rallying has suffered at the hands of the FIA. Please elaborate.
There has been entire threads on this site and others about how the FIA has undermined the WRC to protect it's precious cash cow F1 series. They killed Group B, because it was threatening F1 using safty as the reason and after they had killed it off they didn't even address any of the major safty issues. Actions speak louder than words.

[sollitt]

I agree, there have been entire threads about this. And most of them have been absolute nonsense.
The world over, in most national administrations, rallying plays 2nd fiddle to circuit racing for the very reason you've stated, that racing brings in the cash and rallying doesn't.
At world championship level the situation is no doubt the same.
However recognising this fact, and perhaps even acknowledging it is not, in itself, suppression.

Your claim, that the FIA has "suppressed rallying for 20 years" has been made by others before, however, just as in your case, it's always been a throw away line with no substance.

The one example that you have given, the canning of Group B, is emotive nonsense. It ignores the facts that there had been deaths and that there had been meetings staged and calls made by teams and drivers who wanted immediate steps taken to change direction.

Further, you state that although safety was the published reason for change no steps were taken to fix the safety issues. The issue was the formula and a move to a production based model was the fix.

It's very easy to blame the administration, especially from a position of anonymity but usually it's from one of ignorance.

Tomi is on the money. Better to fix from within than to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Saabaru]

"Actions speak louder than words". If you want to read press releases and eat up every word they feed you then go ahead but don't call me ignorant because I choose to look at the facts and what actually happens instead of living in the dark like some people. Group B is just where it got started and it nevered ended and if you want proof then all you have to do is wait and see what a tight leash they keep on this new promoter. The manufactures wanted to fix Group B not get rid of it. Audi pulled it's Group B cars not because of the car itself but in protest of the crowed control, a safety issue that was never addressed.

But this is just ignorance talking, after you read those press releases you can enlighten us all...

[Saabaru]

If you want to see some spectacular racing that would kill there boring F1 money machine; unplug the stability control system and throw away the restrictor on todays WRC cars. Maybe we could call them PGB cars (Production Group B) and they could put the restrictors on those F1 gocart things.

[Rally Power]

This debate about the FIA ineptitude it’s over judged. Over the 36 years of the WRC there are obviously some wrong technical and political decisions from the ruling body, but only a handful of them could be considered really damaging to the sport.

The extinction of Gr.B (and the projected successor Gr.S) is one of them, mostly because of the emotional environment in witch was decided, but even then it took only 2 or 3 seasons to WRC regain interest, as shown by the large number of manufacturers involved at the Gr.A era.

The introduction of the WRC formula was also a step up, with more liberal homologation formats allowing new manufacturers to be involved, despite their industrial limitations (related to the lack of suitable 4wd products in their model range).

Problems came latter (coincidently with the larger involvement of Mr. David Richards in WRC guidance), with the uncontained technical developments of the WRC formula and the “mediatic” fury that perverted WRC nature and balance.

If the wildly expensive progresses of WRC cars had a real contribution for the reduction of manufacturers participation, the structural changes to WRC rally’s format dramatically deprived the series character.

Limitation of day courses and service areas and the proliferation of visited countries (some with limited rally tradition) had a negative impact over the sport, contributing for the dispersion of fans attention to other series.

FIA actual orientations (12 courses calendar and S2000+ cars) seemed reasonable in order to invert the decadent trajectory of WRC, but the recent revelled incapacity of generate consensus over this measures cannot predict a bright future…

[koko0703]

Whoever governs the sports, there must be stability in the regulation, and that's what's really lacking in the current WRC. Manufacturers are not there for fun but their involvement in WRC must be a good investment for them in the form of promotion, technical development, etc., but with regulation changing faster than you can adjust to, the manufacturers cannot really invest in WRC these days. And the problem with FIA is that manufacturers don't have much say about the changes. I think FIA should need to stop changing regulations and open the door to manufacturers so the WRC can be good place to invest.

I'd suggest FIA and manufacturers review the regulation every 3 to 5 years to make adjustment as requested from both sides and stick with the same regulations (including calender) for that period of time.

[Saabaru]

I have said they need a 5 year minimum on regulations. The cars aren't that expensive to build, it's the rebuilding and retesting every other year that drives the price up so much.

[AndyRAC]

I have said they need a 5 year minimum on regulations. The cars aren't that expensive to build, it's the rebuilding and retesting every other year that drives the price up so much.

Not expensive - I'm not sure about that. Isn't a WRC gearbox about £70,000? Totally ridiculous amount.
I'm all for the simpler the better; a H-Pattern/Sequential manual gearbox, get rid of the fancy electronics. There is more chance of attracting new Manufacturers if things are simpler. Unsurprisingly, the current Manufacturers want Hi-Tech, and while I can understand their point - they're being selfish. 2/3/4 teams is no way to have a competitive World Championship.

[Saabaru]

These are suppose to be the worlds most prestigious rally cars and cutting them down to S2000 would be a shame. I would be happy with S2000+ or even a Group N+. If you took a PWRC car and put the WRC wing, simpler hydraulic gear box, better brakes and a 40mm restrictor on it I would be ecstatic.

[Sulland]

I very much agree on the stability request:
The new regulations should be the ones that are in effect in the 1 jan 2010 - 31 Dec 2014.

Small adjustments to correct unintended errors/effects of the regs is all thatg is allowed !

[A.F.F.]

These are suppose to be the worlds most prestigious rally cars and cutting them down to S2000 would be a shame. I would be happy with S2000+ or even a Group N+. If you took a PWRC car and put the WRC wing, simpler hydraulic gear box, better brakes and a 40mm restrictor on it I would be ecstatic.

If they really think about it through, that'll be the only possibility :up:

Needless to say, I'd be ecstatic too :D

[OldF]

These are suppose to be the worlds most prestigious rally cars and cutting them down to S2000 would be a shame. I would be happy with S2000+ or even a Group N+. If you took a PWRC car and put the WRC wing, simpler hydraulic gear box, better brakes and a 40mm restrictor on it I would be ecstatic.

I agree with you that a WRC car should be little more than a S2000. This is more technical than news and rumours, so I continue in the thread “The Technical Regulations for 2010 (part 2)”

[Mirek]

Bernardo Sousa will test Škoda Fabia S2000 and Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X to choose one of them for PWRC 2009.

[janvanvurpa]

"Actions speak louder than words". If you want to read press releases and eat up every word they feed you then go ahead but don't call me ignorant because I choose to look at the facts and what actually happens instead of living in the dark like some people. Group B is just where it got started and it nevered ended and if you want proof then all you have to do is wait and see what a tight leash they keep on this new promoter. The manufactures wanted to fix Group B not get rid of it. Audi pulled it's Group B cars not because of the car itself but in protest of the crowed control, a safety issue that was never addressed.

But this is just ignorance talking, after you read those press releases you can enlighten us all...

Man you sure can talk some hard facts.
BOTH you and Bruce are talking to some degree crap. Bruce I believe was old enough to be reading and talking to people in the time GpB was current.
GpB was banned as a ad hoc on the spot decision bt Jean Marie Balestre the terrible day Toivanen and Cresta were burned to a crisp in Corse in the Spring of 86. The safety concerns were real enough but mostly about utter lack of control of the spectators rather than the cars themselves, and there were immediate new rules announced such as the elevation of GpA to the top tier, the mandating that 300bhp be max permitted, the introduction of 40mm air inlet restricters for the turbo, the mandated max average speed on SSs.


So meetings schmeetings , Balestre was shocked as everybody was and said stupid things--"Group B banned from end of season!" then defended them from pure obstinacy.
It was a fait accompli, and he and the FIA were sued in court by Peugeot over the stability clause.

Your comments on Audi are BS tho. After I DNFed in the last GpB WRC event (on SS19 out of 38) I ran into a number of the other DNFed crews and even more fun, Hannu Mikkola's co-driver and former Saab 96 co driver Arne Hertz.
They knew the car was already outclassed as soon as the Pug 205 and Lancia S2 arrived, and even worse shape in the new GpA world. The craziness with French and Portuguese and Italian spectators had been bad for years, was bad for years after, the GpB cars were on average only about 4-5 km/hr faster than the works rwd Gp4 cars, so the spectator issues was nothing new, nor was the speeds excessively high.
The cars were outdated against purpose built, better balanced, lighter cars. No wins were possibible so no point.
Straight from the co-driver's mouth.

You deride Bruce---who as I said was likely active then and we all read EVERYTHING we could get our hands on, and yet doing so compels us to ask what your sources of knowledge are for you to form your opinions about things 22 years ago.

Were you active in the sport then?

[Motorsportfun]

]Bernardo Sousa will test Škoda Fabia S2000 and Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X to choose one of them for PWRC 2009.

Isn't true, itz false. I've talked to Bernardo and he said he don't know anything...

[c4]

Adapta have signed an agreement today with SWRT to become a MT in 2009
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/adapta-signed-contract-for-mt-2009-wrc/

[Mirek]

Isn't true, itz false. I've talked to Bernardo and he said he don't know anything...

He could tell You that but it's true. Raimund Baumschlager, his team boss, is involved in Fabia S2000 programme and in the same time he is Mitsubishi Ralliart dealer. Believe me, if his guys don't go WRC (Aigner) or Pirelli Star Driver (one of them or both), they will choose either Fabia or Evo X. That's sure. The only other way is not to continue with RedBull/BRR team. :s mokin:

[Tom206wrc]

I hope Sousa will chose the Skoda :D

[dumb]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6q78c_mikkelsen-c4-wrc-testing_sport

Is it conformed that Andreas will run next season in C4?

[Roy]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6q78c_mikkelsen-c4-wrc-testing_sport

Is it conformed that Andreas will run next season in C4?

Mikelssen does only a test. Citroen want him for their 'M2' team. Wilson want him too for Munchi's.

he can chose the best car/team.

[Halvis]

Mikelssen does only a test. Citroen want him for their 'M2' team. Wilson want him too for Munchi's.

he can chose the best car/team.

You might say that, but it still comes down to the money - unfortunately. I also read that he will talk to Subaru...

[Buzz Lightyear]

You can have a personal audience with The Pope when you have that much money.

[StevieWonder]

]He could tell You that but it's true. Raimund Baumschlager, his team boss, is involved in Fabia S2000 programme and in the same time he is Mitsubishi Ralliart dealer. Believe me, if his guys don't go WRC (Aigner) or Pirelli Star Driver (one of them or both), they will choose either Fabia or Evo X. That's sure. The only other way is not to continue with RedBull/BRR team. :s mokin:


That´s exactly the way it goes at BRR.
In my opinion Aigner will not sit in a C4 next year, because of his relation to BRR - but Fabia S2000 would be very interesting.

[Saabaru]

You might say that, but it still comes down to the money - unfortunately. I also read that he will talk to Subaru...
Well, Citroen will be gone in 2010 anyway, why waste time with them?

[Roy]

Well, Citroen will be gone in 2010 anyway, why waste time with them?

I think Ford is leaving earlier... all money on Subaru then???

[Sulland]

Mikkelsen will also test Subaru before he decides !

Not bad for a youngster !

[AndyRAC]

I think Ford is leaving earlier... all money on Subaru then???

And they're doing the WTCC?

Great, nobody left....

[SubaruNorway]

Mikkelsen will also test Subaru before he decides !

Not bad for a youngster !

No test, just a meeting from what i got.

[Tomi]

Mikkelsen will also test Subaru before he decides !

Not bad for a youngster !

Even it is a crap team it propably would be the best choise for him.

[alleskids]

I doubt that Subaru is the best choise for Mikkelsen, The best choise is either Ford or Citroen. With his best shot of become a factory driver at Ford, if Latvalla keeps crashing to much.

[Tomi]

With his best shot of become a factory driver at Ford, if Latvalla keeps crashing to much.

No chance, he is to slow, and both drivers at Ford has long contracts but at Subaru there might soon be a free seat hopefully, then he would not at least have to pay to drive.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Latvalla keeps crashing to much.

And Mikkelson does not? At least Latvala sets some fastest stage times, for me Mikkelson has done nothing, other than set some good splits while running 15th on the road.

[alleskids]

The full sentence was IF latvalla keeps crashing too much. Ford/Wilson was not happy with Latvala crashing in heavy Manufacturer points soring positions 3 times in a row when he cracked under the pressure. If Mikkelsen shows he can handle the pressure better, then he would have a good change graduating from the Stobart team to the BP team.

[alleskids]

Now that the Citroen C4 WRC tests have been done, is it known who were the other 3 drivers ? Or wil they do their test later this month?

[Buzz Lightyear]

The full sentence was IF latvalla keeps crashing too much. Ford/Wilson was not happy with Latvala crashing in heavy Manufacturer points soring positions 3 times in a row when he cracked under the pressure. If Mikkelsen shows he can handle the pressure better, then he would have a good change graduating from the Stobart team to the BP team.

Your argument would be great, if Mikkelson was at the same level as Latvala. There is 10 other drivers out there quicker than Mikkelson.

[Viking]

Mikkelsen is not looking for a M1 seat in 2009, in 2010 there is maybe a possibility if he can show some concistent speed, Loeb, Sordo,Solberg and Atkinson has contracts that ends after 09, don`t know about the Ford drivers (if it is like it was before they dont have any) :)

[AndyRAC]

2010 - Who knows what happens then? Will Ford /Subaru still be here? S2000/S2000+/Milkfloats

[StevieWonder]

some more news & rumours:
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2008/09/16/kommt-vw-mit-dem-scirocco-wrc/index.html

according to this german article VW is interested in entering WRC with their new scirocco, but only with special regulations.

moreover it seems that VW is retiring Rally Raid after Dakar 2009

but only rumours - so just wait.

[SubaruNorway]

Were was Latvala at Mikkelsen's age, or with the same amount of experience? Buzz, he has done quite a bit more than setting good split times though. 5 in Sweden and loads of stage times well within top 10.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Were was Latvala at Mikkelsen's age, or with the same amount of experience? Buzz, he has done quite a bit more than setting good split times though. 5 in Sweden and loads of stage times well within top 10.

While running in 13 place, and a clean road.

its not that impressive, not for me anyway.

Were not talking about age.. where talking about today.

in 4 years he maybe at Lavala's level.

he maybe a good driver, but he has about 15 more wrc cars to write off before then, and no manufacturer is even going to look at him as a paid driver

[SubaruNorway]

While running in 13 place, and a clean road.

its not that impressive, not for me anyway.

Were not talking about age.. where talking about today.

in 4 years he maybe at Lavala's level.

he maybe a good driver, but he has about 15 more wrc cars to write off before then, and no manufacturer is even going to look at him as a paid driver


Dude he was faster than Loeb on the test! I'm almost getting the feeling you have something against him....

[White Sauron]

but only rumours - so just wait.

Really it is - ONLY a rumour.
Sportcars - Audi
Touring - SEAT
Reids - Volkswagen
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[bennizw]

Mikkelsen i definitly an upcoming star, but a lightning speed on a test doesn't show every aspect of a driver. Place him on a proper rally stage against Loeb, and he will naturally be a lot slower.

Give him some time, and we'll see where he ends up.

[Tomi]

Dude he was faster than Loeb on the test! who actually did drive at that test? any reliable sourse on that one?

[cali]

Whatever the finns say, Mikkelsen is bloody fast for his age and experience. Non-Finns are always slow, even Loeb is slow but he is backed by FRM (...no no, it's French Rally Mafia), so he is just lucky ;)

[Tomi]

Whatever the finns say, Mikkelsen is bloody fast for his age and experience. Non-Finns are always slow, even Loeb is slow but he is backed by FRM (...no no, it's French Rally Mafia), so he is just lucky ;)

not true really, loeb is fast and luck has nothing to do with it, it just seems strange that there is no news about the test anywhere.

[Saabaru]

Mikkelsen is no where near as fast as Latvalla and if Ford let hem go for Mikkelsen it would be one of the stupidest things Ford has done in its rally history. I see a lot of Atkinson's early driving years in Latvalla and he is sure to mature into a better driver with a little time, just as Atkinson has. Ford has two of the best drivers in the WRC today and if they don't hold on to the ones they have now it would be just as stupid as (metaphorically speaking) Citroen letting Loeb go.

[cali]

not true really, loeb is fast and luck has nothing to do with it, it just seems strange that there is no news about the test anywhere.

Heippa :wave: , i was just being sarcastic ;) , but i'm also keen to read more about Mikkelsen's Citroen tests. You have to agree with me that Mikkelsen is actually very fast, not as fast as the Championship TOP3, but setting very good times. I'd like the idea of having Aava and Mikkelsen together in Citroen 2nd team.

Anybody has links about Mikkelsen's test?

[cali]

Ford has two of the best drivers in the WRC today ...
Have You forgot which team is leading the manu race and who is leading drivers champs? :rolleyes:

[Tomi]

Heippa :wave: , i was just being sarcastic ;) , but i'm also keen to read more about Mikkelsen's Citroen tests. You have to agree with me that Mikkelsen is actually very fast, not as fast as the Championship TOP3, but setting very good times. I'd like the idea of having Aava and Mikkelsen together in Citroen 2nd team.

Anybody has links about Mikkelsen's test?

Offcourse he has potential, but from what he is now, its still a long way to a works car, and much can happen.
I belive next year there will be many drivers in WRC who has not been driven before, because of the coming rule change after that its maybe easier to predict.

[alleskids]

Non-Finns are always slow, even Loeb is slow but he is backed by FRM (...no no, it's French Rally Mafia), so he is just lucky ;)

The France branch is overrulling the Finnisch ones. So to stop confusion:
FRM is French Rally Maffia
fRM is Finnisch rally maffia
:)

But indeed, we like to know who the other 3 drivers were at the C4 WRC test.

PS I do not have a horse, soputting a horse head in my bed will be difficult. But I would not mind if I found 4 cat heads and 1 doghead in my bed, if it means I do not longer get waken up in the middle off the night by the cats and dog of the neighbours :)

[cali]

Offcourse he has potential, but from what he is now, its still a long way to a works car, and much can happen.
I belive next year there will be many drivers in WRC who has not been driven before, because of the coming rule change after that its maybe easier to predict.
For what i know, Aava is also talking with different teams to have a better (read: financial) deal for the next year, so nothing sure for the next year.

[alleskids]

For what i know, Aava is also talking with different teams to have a better (read: financial) deal for the next year, so nothing sure for the next year.

Aava for the Adapta Subaru World Rally Team ?

[cali]

Aava for the Adapta Subaru World Rally Team ?
He's wish is to drive Ford or Citroen but Subaru and Suzuki are also options for the next season. His backers gave him a green light for 2009. Link in estonian: http://sloleht.ee/index.aspx?id=295693

I personally would like to delete Suzuki out from that list :D

[SubaruNorway]

not true really, loeb is fast and luck has nothing to do with it, it just seems strange that there is no news about the test anywhere.

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=2605&desc=Mikkelsen%20in%20a%20Citroen%20for%202009?

Mikkelsen also said that he could not belive how the Ford could keep up with the Citroen on tarmac

[Buzz Lightyear]

Dude he was faster than Loeb on the test! I'm almost getting the feeling you have something against him....

He is only a young lad trying to drive cars quickly.

I have nothing against him

He has potential, but that doesnt mean I have to rate tim as a driver today.

[Tomi]

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=2605&desc=Mikkelsen%20in%20a%20Citroen%20for%202009?

Mikkelsen also said that he could not belive how the Ford could keep up with the Citroen on tarmac

sorry, but could not find the part where it says that he was faster than loeb, or that loeb was even present at the test.

[Tomi]

The France branch is overrulling the Finnisch ones. So to stop confusion:
FRM is French Rally Maffia
fRM is Finnisch rally maffia
:)

You can allways live in hope that there some day is a rally driver in Holland too, after that you can make your own Maffia.

[SubaruNorway]

sorry, but could not find the part where it says that he was faster than loeb, or that loeb was even present at the test.

sorry...

http://www.motorsport.no/wip4/-_trodde_skulle_drepe_bilen/d.epl?id=271447

Loeb was not on the test but has driven that road before.

[Saabaru]

Have You forgot which team is leading the manu race and who is leading drivers champs? :rolleyes:
am I missing something?

[Saabaru]

Have You forgot which team is leading the manu race and who is leading drivers champs? :rolleyes:
No, have you? I said "two of the best" not "the two best". :rolleyes:

[jacko]

You can allways live in hope that there some day is a rally driver in Holland too
Lasse will be age of 20 in 15 years :)

[DonJippo]

http://www.motorsport.no/wip4/-_trodde_skulle_drepe_bilen/d.epl?id=271447

Loeb was not on the test but has driven that road before.

If they were not driving on the same day then there is no point to compare times. Conditions changes too much for it this should be clear for everyone.

[Tomi]

Lasse will be age of 20 in 15 years :)

Lasse rules, already the name sounds fast.

[Tomi]

If they were not driving on the same day then there is no point to compare times. Conditions changes too much for it this should be clear for everyone.

True, its good to be a bit a bit sceptic when its about Norwegian motor sport journalism, the Mitsu test a few years back where Henning was also teached quite much, maybe the truth is that Loeb did drive with a S1600 in the rain.

[Halvis]

If they were not driving on the same day then there is no point to compare times. Conditions changes too much for it this should be clear for everyone.

I agree, potensially different conditions makes it impossible to compare. According to the norwegian rally-page, there were also only quoted "french sources", so whether Mikkelsen actually was faster or not, we don't know for sure.

However, IMO there is no doubt that Mikkelsen is very, very talented, and have every chance to be a title contender in a few years. I also think he has shown great maturity for his age, some offs is "needed" to find the limits for the car and driving.

It would be a dream to see him in a Citroen next year!

[Tomi]

I agree, potensially different conditions makes it impossible to compare. According to the norwegian rally-page, there were also only quoted "french sources", so whether Mikkelsen actually was faster or not, we don't know for sure.

Thats the problem with internet, some people take nonsence from crap sites as reliable news.

[cali]

No, have you? I said "two of the best" not "the two best". :rolleyes:

Two of the best drivers... then any given team has two of the best drivers (Petter and Chris + Seb and Dani...oops no more M1 teams, do not count Suzuki in) :rolleyes:

[SubaruNorway]

Dunno if this has been posted yet...

"VW planning to use the scirocco in the wrc"

http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/vw-planning-to-use-scirocco-2011-wrc/

[J.Lindstroem]

Two of the best drivers... then any given team has two of the best drivers (Petter and Chris + Seb and Dani...oops no more M1 teams, do not count Suzuki in) :rolleyes:

Yes?

I whould say all 6 top team drivers is "one of the best?" or?

[Saabaru]

Two of the best drivers... then any given team has two of the best drivers (Petter and Chris + Seb and Dani...oops no more M1 teams, do not count Suzuki in) :rolleyes:
Well with only three teams I guess you have a point.

[Tomi]

Grönholm is back in school, now as a teacher teaching Brittish upcoming rallydrivers, the first ones that got individual teaching was, James Wozencroft, Adam Gould, Jason Pritchard, Alastair Fisher ja Jonny Greer.

[jbmarcus21]

You saw this ?
Marcus probably return wrc next year !! Contact with Citroen and Subaru ..
=> http://planetemarcus.free.fr/news08.htm

Other mind, almost rumour .. Loeb retire and P.Solberg too ..

[Tomi]

You saw this ?
Marcus probably return wrc next year !! Contact with Citroen and Subaru ..
=> http://planetemarcus.free.fr/news08.htm

Other mind, almost rumour .. Loeb retire and P.Solberg too ..

Yes i did, but i dont belive in it for a second, what would be the reason to return, the same travelling and PR crap is still there.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Grönholm is back in school, now as a teacher teaching Brittish upcoming rallydrivers, the first ones that got individual teaching was, James Wozencroft, Adam Gould, Jason Pritchard, Alastair Fisher ja Jonny Greer.

its a magician they need.

[raybak]

Rumour that the WRc in Australia next year will allow Australian PRC cars to compete.

If this is so, I will bring out the WRC Daihatsu Charade. Its half a World Rally Car, 1.0lt Turbo FWD.

Ray

[jbmarcus21]

Yes i did, but i dont belive in it for a second, what would be the reason to return, the same travelling and PR crap is still there.

Yess .. Marcus retire for this reason.. too many travel around the world.. But rumour announce it too, in Subaru Adapta Team (Ostberg) ... And this team is going to wrc next year with light program, only 10 rounds (and Maybe 2 others rallies far away) .. Maybe a good thing for Marcus to drive a light program. ;)

[Tomi]

Yess .. Marcus retire for this reason.. too many travel around the world.. But rumour announce it too, in Subaru Adapta Team (Ostberg) ... And this team is going to wrc next year with light program, only 10 rounds (and Maybe 2 others rallies far away) .. Maybe a good thing for Marcus to drive a light program. ;)

Now i belive it, he said him self in TV it's 50/50 possibility, i belive now more in the rumour that Loeb might stop with rally too.

[alleskids]

Now i belive it, he said him self in TV it's 50/50 possibility, i belive now more in the rumour that Loeb might stop with rally too.

You mean, Citroen would not have asked Gronholm to step in their team if Loeb was stil there, and if Loeb indeed quites, they need an experienced man to represent them. So asking Gronholm is an indication that Loeb lost his motivation, having dominated the world for 5 years now.

[Tomi]

You mean, Citroen would not have asked Gronholm to step in their team if Loeb was stil there, and if Loeb indeed quites, they need an experienced man to represent them. So asking Gronholm is an indication that Loeb lost his motivation, having dominated the world for 5 years now.

something like that, and other sourses about the Loeb's possible quitting also. Actually now the Mikkelsen test with Citroen comes in new light too, it can maybe be all somehow connected.

[HaCo]

Citroen GT?? http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/18/video-citroen-and-sony-release-teaser-of-new-gt/

[Buzz Lightyear]

You mean, Citroen would not have asked Gronholm to step in their team if Loeb was stil there, and if Loeb indeed quites, they need an experienced man to represent them. So asking Gronholm is an indication that Loeb lost his motivation, having dominated the world for 5 years now.

Who said Citroen asked Marcus?


Now i belive it, he said him self in TV it's 50/50 possibility, i belive now more in the rumour that Loeb might stop with rally too.

Marcus could replace Sordo to make a "SuperTeam" for one year?

[jbmarcus21]

Finnish people can you translate this :

Tuomisen mukaan jo viidettä maailmanmestaruuttaan metsästävä Loeb kaivannee uusia haasteita autourheilun parista.

- Veikkaan, että Loeb ei aja MM-rallia kahta kautta pitempään. En usko, että hänellä riittää motivaatiota, kun MM-sarjassa siirrytään pienempitehoiseen kalustoon, Tuominen viittasi kaudella 2011 tapahtuvaan muutokseen.

- Mutta varmasti Loeb pysyy moottoriurheilun parissa, Tuominen jatkoi.

Tuomisen mukaan tiedot siitä, että Citroen-talli olisi kysellyt Marcus Grönholmia takaisin MM-sarjaan, voivat myös liittyä Loebin lopettamispäätökseen.

- Tietysti herää kysymys, miksi Citroen olisi kysellyt juuri Grönholmin kaltaista huippukuljettajaa takaisin MM-sarjaan, Tuominen totesi.

[alleskids]

Who said Citroen asked Marcus?



Did Marcus not say he was asked by Citroen and Subaru and he was 50/50 considering doing it?

[alleskids]

A very rough translation from Google:
According to Tuominen's already the fifth World Cup metsästävä Loeb in need of new challenges in automobile or two.

-- Veikkaan that Loeb does not drive the world championship rally through the two longer. I do not believe that he will have the motivation, when the world championship series move to limited equipment, Tuominen referring to the period 2011 to the change.

-- But surely Loeb remains in a couple of motor sport, Tuominen continued.

Tuominen of the information that a Citroen, the team would have a query, Marcus Grönholm back to the world championship series, may also join the Loeb lopettamispäätökseen.

-- Of course, the question arises as to why the Citroen would be a query, root-like Grönholm huippukuljettajaa back to the world championship series, Tuominen said.

[jbmarcus21]

sure for the moment, the rumour is just a rumour ;)

[jbmarcus21]

The solution is here ... ?

http://nettitv.mtv3.fi/id/144271.wmv

50-50 !

[Tomi]

yes he said that he will think for a while what to do and that its 50-50 now, it sounded like that the citroen approach is serious, not a rumour anymore.
Also he said that the starting position thing is a joke, if they dont change that he wont consider the driving.

[A.F.F.]

Finnish people can you translate this :

Tuomisen mukaan jo viidettä maailmanmestaruuttaan metsästävä Loeb kaivannee uusia haasteita autourheilun parista.

- Veikkaan, että Loeb ei aja MM-rallia kahta kautta pitempään. En usko, että hänellä riittää motivaatiota, kun MM-sarjassa siirrytään pienempitehoiseen kalustoon, Tuominen viittasi kaudella 2011 tapahtuvaan muutokseen.

- Mutta varmasti Loeb pysyy moottoriurheilun parissa, Tuominen jatkoi.

Tuomisen mukaan tiedot siitä, että Citroen-talli olisi kysellyt Marcus Grönholmia takaisin MM-sarjaan, voivat myös liittyä Loebin lopettamispäätökseen.

- Tietysti herää kysymys, miksi Citroen olisi kysellyt juuri Grönholmin kaltaista huippukuljettajaa takaisin MM-sarjaan, Tuominen totesi.

According to Tuominen, Loeb who is now hunting his fifth championship title, probably needs new challenges from motorsport.

- My guess is that won't drive longer than two seasons. I don't believe he has enough motivation, when WRC turns to smaller power machinery, Tuominen regarded to the change which'll happen 2011.

- But surely Loeb stick with motorsport, Tuominen continued.

According to Tuominen the information that Citroen had asked Marcus Grönholm back to WRC, may also relate to Loeb's decision to retire.

Of course this brings up the question why Citroen had asked precisely the driver like Grönholm back to WRC, Tuominen pointed out.






Now, I heard the small clips of an interview which you can find also from here.http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/ralli/2008/09/717387

Grönholm has one clear exception for his return. WRC has to get rid of current rule of starting order. According to Marcus, all tactics has to stop. ( I salute him :) )

EDIT: Sorry Tomi, I didn't notice you already wrote that :)

[jbmarcus21]

Thank you all for your translate ;)

Maybe Loeb retire end of 2008, and Marcus come back in Citroen so ?

[PuddleJumper]

Valentino Rossi is putting his rally boots on again to drive in Rally GB later this year. No mention of what car yet. Hope he gets further than his last attempt!

[RS]

Also he said that the starting position thing is a joke, if they dont change that he wont consider the driving.

Good on Marcus!

He is at odds with his former team boss Mr Wilson there then, who seems to think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[AndyRAC]

Good on Marcus!

He is at odds with his former team boss Mr Wilson there then, who seems to think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

That's because it gives his drivers a better chance of winning. Nothing wrong with close competition - but this is artificial.

[Tomi]

Rautiainen says he would be ready to co-drive Grönholm if he does get back in WRC.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Rautiainen says he would be ready to co-drive Grönholm if he does get back in WRC.

This is gathering pace.

Rather intriguing.

Citroen are never afriad to make bold decisions bringing back drivers to win championships... at all costs.. mcrae, sainz.

There is never smoke without fire.

I also heard that Citroen were considering Sordos future.

So weather Marcus is going to team up with Sebastain, im not so sure.

It would make more sense if Loeb has stated, that if he wins 5 titles in a row, he may retire.

Citroen realise they will not win either drivers of Manufacturers title without him. Stand up the Boss.

I cannot see Marcus pitching himself again Seb... especially after a year out. He would have very little to gain.