[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Right. I wasn't able to follow the sport around that time as I didn't have an internext connection at the time, so I missed it.

Still, I wonder if they have any plans to continue in 2014 - and if they would consider expanding to a second car for Kubica. I think that would be best for him. He has something of a settling-in period when he gets a new car, which I think would be a liability to a works team. Give him 2014 in a customer car, with a view to a works drive in 2015.

[thuGG]

I don't think Kubica would want to drive a customer car since most probably he has 2 offers for next year: Citroen and M-Sport.
On the other hand we don't know if Robert will drive in WRC next year, in the last 12 minute interview for TVP he seemed kind of dissapointed with Baran decision. Robert thought that Baran would be with him for 3 years (supposedly they both agree on that). Now it would be work all over again with new pilot. He also said that maybe it will be rallying on lower level (ERC? WRC2 again?). Also in other interview he said that chances to return to track racing have risen lately (but not in cars with roofs).
So it may be WRC, ERC rallying or racing. But it's only 1-2 weeks to make a decision on WRC. Let's just wait and see, I personally would like to see him in WRC assuming that he can't go back to F1.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Lost for words.

The FIA have to fine ($$$,$$$) SIT and drop the contract.

They have NO Excuse for issues from round 1 in Monte Carlo to round 13 in GB!

Issues Issues Issues.

They are a JOKE.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111489

[rallyfiend]

Lost for words.

The FIA have to fine ($$$,$$$) SIT and drop the contract.

They have NO Excuse for issues from round 1 in Monte Carlo to round 13 in GB!

Issues Issues Issues.

They are a JOKE.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111489

To be fair to them, if this is true, then Rally GB have been pretty bad at blaming them for the National Event problems.

There were heaps of problems across the board at Rally GB - not related to timing issues - and they're probably trying to divert attention away from this. Do a search of twitter / FB etc and you'll see that many aspects of this event were an absolute shambles.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

The Monte Carlo issue was understandable, and even something that should have been anticipated - you're always going to have teething problems when you switch a supplier like that. The idea is to minimise the impact of these changes as much as possible.

The Rally GB issue, on the other hand, sounds a little more suspect. For a system like stage timing, you would expect it to be on a closed network. Even if your ability to send stage times out is interrupted, it should not impact upon your ability to actually record the times - especially since we're talking about a sensitive network of timing beacons spread over a wide, isolated region - exactly the sort of thing that would be vulnerable to a lack of reception.

[igi]

Diplomatic answer from Matton :p
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... %3D8140190 (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rtbf.be%2Fsport%2Fmoteurs%2Fral lye%2Fwrc%2Fdetail_matton-interesse-de-discuter-avec-duval%3Fid%3D8140190)

[makinen_fan]

More on the timing hack:
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00005749&10

[Jack4688`]

The idea is to minimise the impact of these changes as much as possible.

The best to have done that would been to never change supplier from the one with which the WRC had no problems in 10 years of use. It was a stupid decision to change supplier

[dimviii]

More on the timing hack:
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00005749&10

http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00005750&15

[PLuto]

[quote="Prisoner Monkeys":323hbgk7]The idea is to minimise the impact of these changes as much as possible.

The best to have done that would been to never change supplier from the one with which the WRC had no problems in 10 years of use. It was a stupid decision to change supplier[/quote:323hbgk7]

I think lot of people around WRC will not agree with you. There were certain reasons to switch this results supllier...

[Franky]

[quote="Prisoner Monkeys":2ub9r5gu]The idea is to minimise the impact of these changes as much as possible.

The best to have done that would been to never change supplier from the one with which the WRC had no problems in 10 years of use. It was a stupid decision to change supplier

I think lot of people around WRC will not agree with you. There were certain reasons to switch this results supllier...[/quote:2ub9r5gu]
The freezing of info on the split page? Or the reasons were more about the things that a casual fan never really sees?

[makinen_fan]

http://en.best-of-rallylive.com/News/A- ... or-the-WRC (http://en.best-of-rallylive.com/News/A-Sunday-TV-slot-for-the-WRC)

[PLuto]

The freezing of info on the split page? Or the reasons were more about the things that a casual fan never really sees?

b)

[Jack4688`]

such as?

[HaCo]

Diplomatic answer from Matton :p
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... %3D8140190 (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rtbf.be%2Fsport%2Fmoteurs%2Fral lye%2Fwrc%2Fdetail_matton-interesse-de-discuter-avec-duval%3Fid%3D8140190)
Still I remain convinced that he is better than the sub-top of current WRC.

[er88]

Diplomatic answer from Matton :p
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... %3D8140190 (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rtbf.be%2Fsport%2Fmoteurs%2Fral lye%2Fwrc%2Fdetail_matton-interesse-de-discuter-avec-duval%3Fid%3D8140190)
Still I remain convinced that he is better than the sub-top of current WRC.

Doubt it now...duval ruined his career when he turned down a multi-year contact extension at ford to join citroen thinking that with the same car under him, that he was a loeb beater. Lets face it, if duval got given a drive at citroen over meeke it would be disgraceful and unfair. Dont believe duval after being away so long would even compete with the likes of sordo or novikov etc. His times passed...

[Barreis]

How many times was Meeke on WRC podium?!

[User]

How weird would it be that Duval would get a test, and they decide to hire him.

Hell would have to freeze over first, but I think it would be awesome :D

[N.O.T]

hamburger boy is a never been.... if he brings money he can drive

[igi]

He was spectacular, that is for sure, but I also think he is too long out of sport. Last Germany that he participated is proof of that, he wasn't so good.

[er88]

How many times was Meeke on WRC podium?!

Are you seriously suggesting duval is a better option for the citroen seat than meeke :D ?? How many full seasons has meeke had in wrc in that case compared to an already tried and tested failure in duval?? Meeke, ostberg, sordo, kubica are better options than a past it duval ....

[Barreis]

I didn't suggest anything. I just look at results.

[Rallyper]

Talking about Duval and even Meeke, they could also speak to Bosse and some other drivers. Looking forward though, would make them consider among many, but only young coming guys, like swedish Pontus Tidemand...

[er88]

I didn't suggest anything. I just look at results.

True....But Im sure if meeke had been given around 60-65+ starts as duval has had in a world rally car in the wrc you would have seen him on the podium toooo. WRC is about getting the right oppurtunities so its time to give someone else a try instead of an over the hill driver who never was anything special, when many others drivers- meeke, hanninen, paddon etc have never had great oppurtunities and have much more potential or room for improvement than ex drivers such as duval, the solbergs etc who are already past there sell-by dates.

[GigiGalliNo1]

How many times was Meeke on WRC podium?!

Are you seriously suggesting duval is a better option for the citroen seat than meeke :D ?? How many full seasons has meeke had in wrc in that case compared to an already tried and tested failure in duval?? Meeke, ostberg, sordo, kubica are better options than a past it duval ....

How long has Meeke been a driver for PSA in general? In the Pug specifically? Continual test driver and PSA happy with that role? I think Meeke has more up on Dudu than you think. Meeke has been driving since Dudu stopped at the high level of the WRC..

[eppel]

Mads Østberg jumped 60 metres with his rallycar last winter. Next winter he wants to set a new record by jumping at least 80 metres on snow.

Watch the interview from TV8 Østfold here http://bit.ly/1eoynHy

[dimviii]

http://www.lavenir.net/sports/cnt/dmf20131122_00392670

[EightGear]

"Thierry a fait une saison correcte et ça paie de marquer à chaque fois des points. Derrière lui, il y a des jeunes pilotes qui font un peu les fous et qui ne font pas de résultat. Donc être sur le podium aujourd’hui en WRC est très facile."


Can he shut his big mouth please?

That's quite a suggestion from someone like him.

[dimviii]

"Thierry a fait une saison correcte et ça paie de marquer à chaque fois des points. Derrière lui, il y a des jeunes pilotes qui font un peu les fous et qui ne font pas de résultat. Donc être sur le podium aujourd’hui en WRC est très facile."


Can he shut his big mouth please?

That's quite a suggestion from someone like him.

seems that he haven t learn something all these years out of wrc.

[Mirek]

Mads Østberg jumped 60 metres with his rallycar last winter. Next winter he wants to set a new record by jumping at least 80 metres on snow.

Watch the interview from TV8 Østfold here http://bit.ly/1eoynHy

Are the people in Norway interested in jumping a car over some artificial jump just for the sake of jumping?

[Hartusvuori]

Mads Østberg jumped 60 metres with his rallycar last winter. Next winter he wants to set a new record by jumping at least 80 metres on snow.

Watch the interview from TV8 Østfold here http://bit.ly/1eoynHy

Are the people in Norway interested in jumping a car over some artificial jump just for the sake of jumping?

What else could be the reason?

[amilk]

"Thierry a fait une saison correcte et ça paie de marquer à chaque fois des points. Derrière lui, il y a des jeunes pilotes qui font un peu les fous et qui ne font pas de résultat. Donc être sur le podium aujourd’hui en WRC est très facile."



Duval "today to be on podium very easy"?
Maybe easyier than 10 years ago but he would be happy to have same consitency and speed than Thierry. Not fair to speak like this.

[HaCo]

50+ mins season review:
http://www.laola1.tv/en-int/video/wrc-s ... 45247.html (http://www.laola1.tv/en-int/video/wrc-seasonreview-2013/145247.html)

Apparently this is the WRC channel. Would like to watch these on my tv (like YouTube).

[er88]

"Thierry a fait une saison correcte et ça paie de marquer à chaque fois des points. Derrière lui, il y a des jeunes pilotes qui font un peu les fous et qui ne font pas de résultat. Donc être sur le podium aujourd’hui en WRC est très facile."



Duval "today to be on podium very easy"?
Maybe easyier than 10 years ago but he would be happy to have same consitency and speed than Thierry. Not fair to speak like this.

Duval is just crying out for some attention and publicity to try keep his 'name' out there. It won't work ...

[SubaruNorway]

Mads Østberg jumped 60 metres with his rallycar last winter. Next winter he wants to set a new record by jumping at least 80 metres on snow.

Watch the interview from TV8 Østfold here http://bit.ly/1eoynHy

Are the people in Norway interested in jumping a car over some artificial jump just for the sake of jumping?

If you haven't got something better to do and can create some interest amongst people who usually don't watch rally cars why not :)

My video from last year, was a bit hard getting a good angel to show how far it really was. The small jump at the start ruined the speed or else it would have been at least 70m i think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNIq-WeR-7U

[Mirek]

Hehe, thanks. I remember You were there last winter ;)

[bluuford]

You know.. people do and watch ski jumping as well ;-)

[danon]

Going the ski and jump direction a thing comes to mind.

What's common between Sebastien Ogier and Walter Röhrl?

Have a guess...

[danon]

http://imageshack.us/a/img585/3001/nxi.gif ->>> http://rallye-passion.blogs.sudinfo.be/ ... 88794.html (http://rallye-passion.blogs.sudinfo.be/archive/2013/11/23/wrc-duval-vs-neuville-sur-les-reseaux-sociaux-font-le-buzz-88794.html)

http://static.blogs.sudinfo.be/media/114/1641111449.jpg

[danon]

Sebastien Ogier and Walter Röhrl - ski instructors = balance masters

- http://www.maxrally.com/2013/10/04/seba ... nd-asphalt (http://www.maxrally.com/2013/10/04/sebastien-ogiers-feeling-for-snow.-and-gravel-and-asphalt)

- http://www.voelkl.com/en/news/ski-news/ ... kiing.html (http://www.voelkl.com/en/news/ski-news/alpine-news-display/article/rallye-legend-walter-roehrl-voelkl-hightech-for-skiing.html)

http://www.voelkl.com/typo3temp/pics/WalterRoehrl_VWERKS_obertauern_d3b989c306.jpg

[danon]

````````````````````````````````````````````````
Dudu back in the WRC pack!

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8179/mpax.jpg

[jbmarcus21]

Yesterday i was to Thierry Neuville 1st Test with i20wrc
my video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze6Ax9X1 ... e=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze6Ax9X1BHA&feature=youtu.be)

[A FONDO]

good clip but dont spam the whole forum. the hyundai topic is enough, everyone will see it there

[Jack4688`]

Spam? It's completely relevant to this thread

[er88]

Yesterday i was to Thierry Neuville 1st Test with i20wrc
my video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze6Ax9X1 ... e=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze6Ax9X1BHA&feature=youtu.be)

Thanks for the video, good clip. Cant wait for the first stage of the monte now to see how far off the car will be from the others. Hyundai are somewhat unfortunate they are following on from vw making the most successful debut ever so added pressure!

[Frostmourne]

Any news from Prodrive-Mini, will they continue to provide their cars to interested customers? any chances of WRC team/manufacturer campiagn?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Any news from Prodrive-Mini, will they continue to provide their cars to interested customers? any chances of WRC team/manufacturer campiagn?

Go to iRally and read the story. You have the app? Otherwise go on the website. iRallyLive.com

[Mintexmemory]

Any news from Prodrive-Mini, will they continue to provide their cars to interested customers? any chances of WRC team/manufacturer campiagn?

Go to iRally and read the story. You have the app? Otherwise go on the website. iRallyLive.com

Alternatively - None, Unlikely and No. As been said elsewhere rallycrossing is the sad end for a project that many hoped would be more than it delivered. Seems like Richards has a reverse Midas touch, everything he touches turns to crap.
Over the weekend I picked up a copy of Rally Year 1998 (a period when I was exiled from interest in the sport). Reading it showed how much has been lost. Burns winning the Safari and GB , Sainz breaking down at Margam and not a cloverleaf rally in site, outstanding performances from Makinen, and at least 10 drivers capable of winning rallies. Just one item in there caused me to hang my head, that Dave Richards, MD of a Bernie Ecclestone -owned company had got the promotional rights to WRC and was looking at making rallying more accessible to broadcasting (I paraphrase). The road to hell always starts with the first step. It is one of the big regrets in my life that I missed Rallying in the 90s - c'est la vie.

[AndyRAC]

I almost laugh when I hear the phrase ‘making the sport accessible’. In the last 10-15 we’ve had nothing but disastrous and ill thought out decisions. And still nobody learns. All the sport needed were a few tweaks.

And look now; no Yearly Rally books – both Rallycourse and Pirelli World Rallying have ceased to be published……

[Motorsportfun]

New WRC round in Azerbaijan beyond 2015? Jean Todt already talked to Azeris... and they got quite a lot of money there! ;)

[Jack4688`]

Yes! A new classic in the mould of Rally Jordan or Rally Bulgaria :laugh:

[stefanvv]

Yes! A new classic in the mould of Rally Jordan or Rally Bulgaria :laugh:
What's that? :D

[Jack4688`]

I was being facetious... Of course I'm assuming any Rally held in Azerbaijan would be equine effluent

[er88]

New WRC round in Azerbaijan beyond 2015? Jean Todt already talked to Azeris... and they got quite a lot of money there! ;)

Cant see that pleasing Qatar or abu dhabi :laugh:

[Motorsportfun]

Anyway, 2016 is still far away, everything could happen. The fact, now, is they talked to Todt and FIA in general...

At least they can invest money in the series (not like Jordan) and have proper mountains and some population around Baku, Ganja, etc.

Last weekend, they paid 20.000 euros for logistic costs to every car entered at their Fia GT seasons-finale. And summed it up to 175.000 prize-fund to top-3. Not bad stuff in this economic climate for motorsports...

[Mintexmemory]

Anyway, 2016 is still far away, everything could happen. The fact, now, is they talked to Todt and FIA in general...

At least they can invest money in the series (not like Jordan) and have proper mountains and some population around Baku, Ganja, etc.

Last weekend, they paid 20.000 euros for logistic costs to every car entered at their Fia GT seasons-finale. And summed it up to 175.000 prize-fund to top-3. Not bad stuff in this economic climate for motorsports...
Also they have all the other pre-requisites for being awarded a round of the World Championship
Absolutely no history or involvement in an international rally series
No thriving local rally scene
Transport for fans expensive as you have to virtually long haul to the arse-end of nowhere
No experience in marshalling (and other safety issues) on such events.
...sounds perfect.
The soul was sold many years ago, just a case of what new torments the demons can devise!

[makinen_fan]

Also they have all the other pre-requisites for being awarded a round of the World Championship
Absolutely no history or involvement in an international rally series
No thriving local rally scene
Transport for fans expensive as you have to virtually long haul to the arse-end of nowhere
No experience in marshalling (and other safety issues) on such events.
...sounds perfect.
The soul was sold many years ago, just a case of what new torments the demons can devise!

+1
Also China was supposed to be considered a potential WRC event. Watch the onboard from Lappi and you cannot count more than 10 people along a 10 min stage... And this is for a country that already hold one WRC event in the past, I can't imagine how it is going to be IF Azerbaijan hold a WRC event, do they have any kind of rally history there?
Fans is an important part of rallying and it just looks bad when the stages are totally empty.

[AndyRAC]

As other have already pointed out – having shed loads of money guarantees nothing. Honestly, the WRC doesn’t want to be going down the path of F1 – following the ‘money’ and turning it’s back on the heartlands. So a lot of these eastern European events are backed by huge money – doesn’t make them good events, and the WRC should be wary of going to them.

Get the WRC on a stable footing before going to these places; many of whom have little or no Rally scene.

Imagine 10-15 years ago telling somebody that a WRC season will have no Sanremo, Corsica, Acropolis, NZ & Safari – they would think you were mad. Yet that is what we have next year…… can’t say I’m happy about this.

[Doon]

Thats so true! I wouldn't be surprised if a few more classics bit the dust for events offering more £££'s

[stefanvv]

Now it's not about market, as it was the proposal of China or Brasil round. I'm guessing the country just wants to advertise themselves as tourist attraction and WRC round would help alot. Nobody in FIA obviously cares how WRC will lose though. Jordan had the same purpose few years ago. I don't know for what purpose there was round in Bulgaria 2010 though. It looked totally meaningless (well I can make a guess for myself though :laugh: ).

EDIT: BTW isn't it in Asia?

[Jack4688`]

Yes Azerbaijan is Asia, but may well be one of those ambiguous locations that somehow gets itself in the European song contest and has football teams trying to qualify for various UEFA sanctioned events haha

[Doon]

Yeh it's a funny one. Think the top half is in Europe, bottom half Asia.

[Frostmourne]

I really don't know why some are bashing Jordan rally? at least that rally proved to be hard and also the finale of Jordan rally 2010 was really epic when Ogier won by 0.2 against Latvala..

Most of you complain about the lack of audience, if 100k people or 100 people are watching this, it wont make any difference! FIA got the money from that event!

We are fans of WRC as well, same as you, but probably not in huge numbers compared to Europe, I am sure if the situation was stable at Syria things will be much better, and I really hope Jordan will host again a round in WRC in the future!

[stefanvv]

Every Rally with lot of rocks is hard :) I personally don't mind Jordan or Azerbaijan or whatsoever strange location once per calendar year. It's enough for me the promoter to do more coverage on these events as it is now, but this applies to any other Rally anyway :) .

[Plan9]

Why not have a WRC event in Qatar or Abu Dhabi? Both already have the title sponsorship of a team each.

[Mirek]

Do You like artificial roads built in the desert? That's what I really don't like about rallies in these countries. Rallying is not about purpose-built race tracks even if those are gravel rough ones.

[Mintexmemory]

Additionally even if, as in Jordan's case, the venue isn't next to a destabilised / warring state there are the security issues which caused Paris-Dakar to move continent. We have seen the F1 problems regarding sport in the Gulf. Almost certainly Abu Dhabi and Qatar would like a WRC round, BUT are they able to provide the necessary level of security in a situation totally different from a closed race track?

[Jack4688`]

I've heard of a rocky gravel rally event that's in Europe actually, WRC promoter would do well to include it in the schedule. Apparently it's called 'Acropolis Rally' or something like that, it's been going for quite a few years too.

[Mintexmemory]

I've heard of a rocky gravel rally event that's in Europe actually, WRC promoter would do well to include it in the schedule. Apparently it's called 'Acropolis Rally' or something like that, it's been going for quite a few years too.

Apart from the fact that Todt isn't prepared to take a deposit in dolmas and taramasalata. I would love the Acropolis to be in the championship, clearly no one sees Greece as an important market at present. I forget who said 'money doesn't talk it swears!' but sadly the halcyon days are gone forever - unless a European breakaway championship could be established! (I can dream)

[COD]

Also they have all the other pre-requisites for being awarded a round of the World Championship
Absolutely no history or involvement in an international rally series
No thriving local rally scene
Transport for fans expensive as you have to virtually long haul to the arse-end of nowhere
No experience in marshalling (and other safety issues) on such events.
...sounds perfect.
The soul was sold many years ago, just a case of what new torments the demons can devise!

+1
Also China was supposed to be considered a potential WRC event. Watch the onboard from Lappi and you cannot count more than 10 people along a 10 min stage... And this is for a country that already hold one WRC event in the past, I can't imagine how it is going to be IF Azerbaijan hold a WRC event, do they have any kind of rally history there?
Fans is an important part of rallying and it just looks bad when the stages are totally empty.

The APRC rally in China is in Chinese terms at least in the middle of nowhere, so no wonder there are no spectators on stages. Actually seremonial start and roadsections that go through villages attract lots of people. I would imagine that given the right lcation, rallying could attract more spectators than the organizers could handle

[Jack4688`]

...sadly the halcyon days are gone forever - unless a European breakaway championship could be established! (I can dream)

Erm you mean the ERC? :D

We can always hope that the ERC gets stronger and stronger. I watched this year mainly for the attraction of seeing Tour de Corse and Sanremo. I was disappointed with Sanremo, it's not like I remember it when it was a WRC round, but still next year the championship will feature Tour de Corse, Acropolis, Circuit of Ireland, Rally Estonia, Rallye du Valais & Jannerrallye just to name a few I love to watch or am looking forward to seeing for the first time.

What events does the WRC feature that will attract fans like me to watch it on TV? Rallye Monte Carlo, Rally Finland and errr I guess Sweden and GB are still interesting to watch...

[Mintexmemory]

...sadly the halcyon days are gone forever - unless a European breakaway championship could be established! (I can dream)

Erm you mean the ERC? :D

We can always hope that the ERC gets stronger and stronger. I watched this year mainly for the attraction of seeing Tour de Corse and Sanremo. I was disappointed with Sanremo, it's not like I remember it when it was a WRC round, but still next year the championship will feature Tour de Corse, Acropolis, Circuit of Ireland, Rally Estonia, Rallye du Valais & Jannerrallye just to name a few I love to watch or am looking forward to seeing for the first time.

What events does the WRC feature that will attract fans like me to watch it on TV? Rallye Monte Carlo, Rally Finland and errr I guess Sweden and GB are still interesting to watch...
Not the current ERC with its limited appeal to team, something more like the old ERC with the variable coeff rallies. Don't forget Ypres ;)

[Jack4688`]

400 rallies a season and variable coefficient points is NOT easy to follow. Especially for simpletons like me with a shot attention span! But not so short that I prefer Rallycross I might add...

[Mirek]

The APRC rally in China is in Chinese terms at least in the middle of nowhere, so no wonder there are no spectators on stages. Actually seremonial start and roadsections that go through villages attract lots of people. I would imagine that given the right lcation, rallying could attract more spectators than the organizers could handle

The onboard of Gill I watched led through several villages (half of the stage was on asphalt road in populated area) and the only man I saw in whole length of the stage was somebody building a house next to the road. No spectator and no marshal from start to finish anywhere...

[Mirek]

Not the current ERC with its limited appeal to team, something more like the old ERC with the variable coeff rallies. Don't forget Ypres ;)

You really want the coefficients and dozens of counted rallies back? Please not! We need to reduce the existing one to 10 or even 8 events, not to enlarge it to 50 where no direct competitors would ever meet!

[Mintexmemory]

Not the current ERC with its limited appeal to team, something more like the old ERC with the variable coeff rallies. Don't forget Ypres ;)

You really want the coefficients and dozens of counted rallies back? Please not! We need to reduce the existing one to 10 or even 8 events, not to enlarge it to 50 where no direct competitors would ever meet!

No not dozens - 20 European Rallies. the top 8 being coeff 10, 4 being coeff 6 amd 8 being coeff 3. Only best 10 results to count but unclassified unless you compete in at least 10. I think that would address your concerns and prevent the farce we've had in WRC2 and WRC3

[Mirek]

No not dozens - 20 European Rallies. the top 8 being coeff 10, 4 being coeff 6 amd 8 being coeff 3. Only best 10 results to count but unclassified unless you compete in at least 10. I think that would address your concerns and prevent the farce we've had in WRC2 and WRC3

It's clear that you haven't followed ERC for a very long time. I don't remember in last ten years a single season where more than one or two crews would do ten events in a year. That is utopia in ERC and it was proven again and again that it doesn't work. People who have money for such program drive in WRC. For example this year only one ERC driver did more than 9 events, only two did more than 8 and only 4 more than 6!!!

[PLuto]

And I dont know anybody who liked old system with coefficients (except FIA who has liked it because they earn more money from organisers).

[PLuto]

And actual system for WRC2 is not good too. Main rivals Robert Kubica and Abdullaziz Al Kuwari almost didnt meet directly during the season...

[OldF]

Colin Clark ?@voiceofrally 1h
Nasser confirms to me that he had positive discussions yesterday in Dubai with MW about continuing Qatar involvement with M-Sport.

Colin Clark ?@voiceofrally 1h
Nasser also confirmed that if deal is done he will do 5/6 rounds and share car with @ElfynEvans.

[focus206]

Colin Clark ?@voiceofrally 1h
Nasser confirms to me that he had positive discussions yesterday in Dubai with MW about continuing Qatar involvement with M-Sport.

Colin Clark ?@voiceofrally 1h
Nasser also confirmed that if deal is done he will do 5/6 rounds and share car with @ElfynEvans.

That's a very good news, also happy for Evans :)
I'm sure Malcolm will do everything to make it a done deal.

[Rallyper]

That would be in third car, right? So we still have to seats to fill. Evgenij and Mads probably? Where do we find Mikko?

[focus206]

That would be in third car, right? So we still have to seats to fill. Evgenij and Mads probably? Where do we find Mikko?
Well, this year we had basically 4 cars, so it COULD be:
2013: Ostberg, Novikov, Neuville, Al Attiyah
2014: Ostberg, Novikov, Hirvonen, Al Attiyah/Evans sharing one car
theorically there could be a seat for everyone...

[rallyfiend]

I understood that one of EN's key sponsors had got tired / run out of money / been put in prison so he'll be lucky to be anywhere next year.

Mads will probably turn up in a Citroen if anywhere. Not sure they're that happy with the car they paid for this year.

I'd bet on Hirvonen / Kubica / Nasser / Evans.

[MJW]

I understood that one of EN's key sponsors had got tired / run out of money / been put in prison so he'll be lucky to be anywhere next year.

Mads will probably turn up in a Citroen if anywhere. Not sure they're that happy with the car they paid for this year.

I'd bet on Hirvonen / Kubica / Nasser / Evans.
I 'd say you are spot on with that :-) Mads, Meeke and Sordo at Citroen

[Rallyper]

Not a bad guess either... ;)

[makinen_fan]

Mads will probably turn up in a Citroen if anywhere. Not sure they're that happy with the car they paid for this year.



Was he driving a different version of Fiesta than Neuville ???? :rolleyes:

[Mintexmemory]

I understood that one of EN's key sponsors had got tired / run out of money / been put in prison so he'll be lucky to be anywhere next year.

Mads will probably turn up in a Citroen if anywhere. Not sure they're that happy with the car they paid for this year.

I'd bet on Hirvonen / Kubica / Nasser / Evans.
I 'd say you are spot on with that :-) Mads, Meeke and Sordo at Citroen


On the Czech site page posted on the M Sport thread (story of Nasser defecting) linked below
http://www.rally-mania.cz/news.php?id=15240
there is a video of Mads testing with M Sport for MC. If this is from 2013 then it's highly likely he is already contracted for next year, or am I missing something (like the page has hugely out of date videos?)

Also the Hyundai 2nd MC car debate still being open indicates that Dani hasn't got a full deal offer from Citroen and is hence still weighing up the options

[makinen_fan]

This is an old one P

Published on 10 Dec 2012
Mads Ostberg testing for the 2013 Rallye Monte-Carlo with M-Sport.

[Mintexmemory]

This is an old one P

Published on 10 Dec 2012
Mads Ostberg testing for the 2013 Rallye Monte-Carlo with M-Sport.

Thanks - should have run some czechs first ;)

[Rallyper]

Mads will probably turn up in a Citroen if anywhere. Not sure they're that happy with the car they paid for this year.



Was he driving a different version of Fiesta than Neuville ???? :rolleyes:

No, but had some technical failures as well as he had some offs... :|

[RS]

Mads will probably turn up in a Citroen if anywhere. Not sure they're that happy with the car they paid for this year.


Ahhh, so this would explain why teams are "chasing" Ostberg's signature.

[er88]

Mads will probably turn up in a Citroen if anywhere. Not sure they're that happy with the car they paid for this year.


Ahhh, so this would explain why teams are "chasing" Ostberg's signature.

:laugh: , it definetly explains it because on driving talent alone he simply dosent cut it imo. As the saying goes- its easier to make a really fast driver consistent than a consistent driver really fast. Ostberg used to be relatively consistent but this year he hasnt even had that - but hes got the cash so id certainly expect he will have a drive for 2014.

[Rallyper]

Mads will probably turn up in a Citroen if anywhere. Not sure they're that happy with the car they paid for this year.


Ahhh, so this would explain why teams are "chasing" Ostberg's signature.

:laugh: , it definetly explains it because on driving talent alone he simply dosent cut it imo. As the saying goes- its easier to make a really fast driver consistent than a consistent driver really fast. Ostberg used to be relatively consistent but this year he hasnt even had that - but hes got the cash so id certainly expect he will have a drive for 2014.

I think you´re ruling out Mads too easy. He´s one of the 5-6 fastest guys in WRC and for sure deserves a place in one of the teams. I think you should not only read one season to come up with you quotes. If your observation and conclusion would be adequat we wouldn´t had more drivers in WRC than Mr Loeb... :dozey:

[RS]

I think you´re ruling out Mads too easy. He´s one of the 5-6 fastest guys in WRC

There were only 5-6 guys in permanent WRC seats this year...

I am sure he will have some kind of drive next year, and hopefully he proves us wrong but I just don't see it. He's been around quite a long time now.

[er88]

(I think you´re ruling out Mads too easy. He´s one of the 5-6 fastest guys in WRC and for sure deserves a place in one of the teams. I think you should not only read one season to come up with you quotes. If your observation and conclusion would be adequat we wouldn´t had more drivers in WRC than Mr Loeb... :dozey:[/quote] )

No, my post was alluding to the fact that teams wouldn't be 'chasing' ostberg, a guy who was annihilated by his younger teammate who has vastly less wrc experience, if he didnt have the financial backing. I want mads in the championship, the more decent drivers the better but if it wasnt for his money he would have considerably less options than he 'supposedly' has :dozey:

[bluuford]

Some rumors are telling that the rule of keeping driver nr 1 for the whole season will be cancelled from next year. That mean, you can change both drivers if you want. So, if it is true, then it brings many new sides to the market.

[Rallyper]

Less options than the 5 faster guys or less options compared to slower guys? Normally a driver with Mads quality would have a couple of options, as well as for example Mikko, just because there are not so many, but paying drivers (which are quite slower) to choose from.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For 2014 we'll have the same drivers at VW as 2013 and TN & JH + 1 at Hyundai ...

So all we are chatting about now are a mix of the existing Ford & Citroen drivers swapping about... :rolleyes:

[er88]

For 2014 we'll have the same drivers at VW as 2013 and TN & JH + 1 at Hyundai ...

So all we are chatting about now are a mix of the existing Ford & Citroen drivers swapping about... :rolleyes:

I think meeke will get the gig at citroen ;)

[EightGear]

For 2014 we'll have the same drivers at VW as 2013 and TN & JH + 1 at Hyundai ...

So all we are chatting about now are a mix of the existing Ford & Citroen drivers swapping about... :rolleyes:

Kubica?

Ford & Citroen drivers swapping around has been the standard untill not too long ago.

[Jack4688`]

Because Ford and Citroen were the only teams until recently :laugh:

[EightGear]

Exactly.

[Zeakiwi]

Paddon has a few 'NZ road show' dates listed on his facebook so he is keeping his 'brand' out in the public domain.

[danon]

party time for the Master - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eO_c7Ver7U

[BDA Cosworth]

I'm a little uncertain about Sordo going to Citroen.

Hirvonen went from a Ford to a Citroen and didn't do well all of a sudden.
Would the same be true for Sordo going to Ford?

I'm pretty certain Ford will take Mikko (I would do it if I was Malcolm).

I suppose its a matter of who will bring it to the finish vs. who could potentially win rallies for both Citroen and Ford. Citroen may be the only team with drivers who have not won, or at max have won 1 wrc rally.

[er88]

In either car sordo wouldl still be mediocre on gravel and quick on tarmac- doubt we will be seeing him on any more than a handful of rallies anyway.

[andyone]

I think ford is an easy car to adopt. Most people who go to ford keep there previous speeds. But out of ford they struggle

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Kielder]

Juho & Dani will share car number 2 during the season. Sordo starts in Monte.

[er88]

[quote="Kielder"]Juho & Dani will share car number 2 during the season. Sordo starts in Monte.[/quote

Just your thoughts or fact?

[A FONDO]

I heard it should be officially announced in Monday :rolleyes:

[Jack4688`]

So long as Sordo just does the tarmac rounds and Hanninen does all the loose surface events I think that could be a good pair of drivers for car No. 2.

[noel157]

I think we're getting most of the jigsaw together, maybe:

Hyundai- Neuville, Hanninen and Sordo
M-Sport - Hirvonen, Ostberg (?), Nasser/Evans, Novikov/cheque book driver
Citroen - Meeke, Kubica (?), and Al-Qassimi/+guest driver
VW - as before

[Rallyper]

I think we're getting most of the jigsaw together, maybe:

Hyundai- Neuville, Hanninen and Sordo
M-Sport - Hirvonen, Ostberg (?), Nasser/Evans, Novikov/cheque book driver
Citroen - Meeke, Kubica (?), and Al-Qassimi/+guest driver
VW - as before

Citroen must hire a better standard driver than that.

[er88]

I think we're getting most of the jigsaw together, maybe:

Hyundai- Neuville, Hanninen and Sordo
M-Sport - Hirvonen, Ostberg (?), Nasser/Evans, Novikov/cheque book driver
Citroen - Meeke, Kubica (?), and Al-Qassimi/+guest driver
VW - as before

I agree, imo kubica and ostberg could maybe be other way around but apart from that think ur spot on.

[er88]

rallyper- i think next season you will find meeke doing better than many of those drivers on alot of rallies :)

[Andre Oliveira]

Duval or Loix to Citroën

[er88]

Duval or Loix to Citroën
LOL surely matton wouldn't :D ?

[Mintexmemory]

Duval or Loix to Citroën
LOL surely matton wouldn't :D ?
I agree, I think Citroen are doing the same as Hyundai and are looking for a Tarmac no 2 but what was on offer wasn't a good enough package for Dani Sordo. Duval is probably being negotiated with for the tarmac role but I don't see him being the No1 - leaves Ostberg or Meeke (more likely gravel No2)

[A FONDO]

seems like citroen will fight for the 4th place with M-sport2

[wrc45]

Does anybody know last years drivers salaries?

[Brother John]

Does anybody know last years drivers salaries?

Why are you so curious about private matters? :confused:

[er88]

Duval or Loix to Citroën
LOL surely matton wouldn't :D ?
I agree, I think Citroen are doing the same as Hyundai and are looking for a Tarmac no 2 but what was on offer wasn't a good enough package for Dani Sordo. Duval is probably being negotiated with for the tarmac role but I don't see him being the No1 - leaves Ostberg or Meeke (more likely gravel No2)

First off, if ostberg and meeke both got full seasons im sure meeke would finish ahead of mads in the championship. Meeke is also good on tarmac, not brilliant i admit but much better than ostberg(who is quite franky terrible) and with duval being away for soo long, i think kris would be faster than him too on tarmac. Ostberg should only be a #2 driver at best imo, and citroen shouldn't go anywhere near duval despite their obvious lack of options.

[MJW]

Bouffier is a better option than Duval. Come to think of it Didier Auriol, Jean Ragnotti, Jean Pierre Nicholas etc are better than Duval.

[N.O.T]

Bouffier is a better option than Duval. Come to think of it Didier Auriol, Jean Ragnotti, Jean Pierre Nicholas etc are better than Duval.

LOL... its true though.

[Kalm]

It seems odd to me why no one in rallying scene even mentions Ott Tänak as a possibility... he won stages on tarmac in Gemany, Spain and France on his debut season with wrc, showing he has potential to be fast on every surface (having gravel and snow has his favorites), he made lot of mistakes , but so did Neuville for example, they where separated only by 1 point at the end of the season and look where Neuville is now... and Tänak is not even mentioned in the wildest speculations...

[bluuford]

psst..it is a well kept secret;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Why most of you think that one driver with 30's are older? Rally is not football.

All of you are missing the old rally times, but, if in those times, rally was for Men. The support categories exists for some reason. Loix still fast f.e.

[wrc45]

It seems odd to me why no one in rallying scene even mentions Ott Tänak as a possibility... he won stages on tarmac in Gemany, Spain and France on his debut season with wrc, showing he has potential to be fast on every surface (having gravel and snow has his favorites), he made lot of mistakes , but so did Neuville for example, they where separated only by 1 point at the end of the season and look where Neuville is now... and Tänak is not even mentioned in the wildest speculations...
The problem was not his driving but his attitude.

[wrc45]

Does anybody know last years drivers salaries?

Why are you so curious about private matters? :confused:
Not really private. Just wanted to know WRC salaries compared to F1 salaries. F1 salaries are published everywhere and i heard a rumour some time ago that Ogier earns 10 mil € a year.

[N.O.T]

Does anybody know last years drivers salaries?

Why are you so curious about private matters? :confused:
Not really private. Just wanted to know WRC salaries compared to F1 salaries. F1 salaries are published everywhere and i heard a rumour some time ago that Ogier earns 10 mil € a year.

stick to F1 then...it is better for everyone.

[Andre Oliveira]

Autosport.pt writes that M-Sport asked FIA in order to homologate modified padle shift to Kubica. Same article said that Ostberg moves to Citroën and Kubica can do some races with Bentley M-Sport car.

http://autosport.pt/robert-kubica-a-cam ... rt=f116413 (http://autosport.pt/robert-kubica-a-caminho-da-m-sport=f116413)

[wrc45]

stick to F1 then...it is better for everyone.
Extremely nice people here.

[Nornbugger]

stick to F1 then...it is better for everyone.
Extremely nice people here.


belive it or not N.O.T. has mellowed after his enforced absence! Find the ignore feature and you'll find this section of the forum fine once you tune it to your liking

[Mirek]

N.O.T. might have sounded rough or arrogant but why the hell does he need to know driver's salaries? Drivers are not paid from public money. It's a matter of private agreement between two parties if one drives for free, gets billion or pays billion. It's their private thing.

[N.O.T]

N.O.T. might have sounded rough or arrogant but why the hell does he need to know driver's salaries? Drivers are not paid from public money. It's a matter of private agreement between two parties if one drives for free, gets billion or pays billion. It's their private thing.

i want to know about their hair products and their boyfriends... salaries are sooo last year.

[Mintexmemory]

N.O.T. might have sounded rough or arrogant but why the hell does he need to know driver's salaries? Drivers are not paid from public money. It's a matter of private agreement between two parties if one drives for free, gets billion or pays billion. It's their private thing.

i want to know about their hair products and their boyfriends... salaries are sooo last year.


:D :D :D :D

[Mintexmemory]

First off, if ostberg and meeke both got full seasons im sure meeke would finish ahead of mads in the championship.
Meeke is also good on tarmac, not brilliant i admit but much better than ostberg(who is quite franky terrible) and with duval being away for soo long, i think kris would be faster than him too on tarmac. Ostberg should only be a #2 driver at best imo, and citroen shouldn't go anywhere near duval despite their obvious lack of options.

To beat Loix at Ypres and Ucci at SanRemo you have to be brilliant on tarmac - or am I missing something!

[Motorsportfun]

Stop chatting about Sordo. I know he'll be announced as Hyundai factory driver on December 10.

[AndyRAC]

You're not missing something.....

Meeke is good on Tarmac....and I don't know what/who they've been watching.... Wilks??

[N.O.T]

Stop chatting about Sordo. I know he'll be announced as Hyundai factory driver on December 10.

Good choice from every point of view.

[er88]

You're not missing something.....

Meeke is good on Tarmac....and I don't know what/who they've been watching.... Wilks??

I said Meeke was good on tarmac........ :confused: I will decide if he is brilliant on tarmac if he gets more chances in wrc next year. My bet is on the black stuff he would beat mads, mikko, novikov, mikklesen, and possibly fight with latvala and neuville but thats just my opinion.

[litifeta]

Does anybody know last years drivers salaries?

I imagine this response will attract emotions from the internet trolls.

It is a reasonable question but hard to answer. The money has appeared to dry up in recent years.

WRC does not have the same profile as F1 and WRC drivers do not affect manufacturers sales as much as F1. For instance, from the moment Mark Webber signed for Renault (and despite his form) the manufacturer sales in Australia Renault Sport soared to the point where Australia became the second largest world market for RS. So obviously Webber make a few bucks out of that.

Neuville was reported at 1 million Euro for Hyundai. (who knows the real number). If that is true, he is the hottest thing in the WRC other than Ogier, which given his unbeatable form this year and very rich team, would suggest he would be 4 or 5 million Euros.

MSport was reported at suggesting to Solberg he would have to pay to drive. Drivers like Mads have to find private money to keep them in a car.

So other than a Citroen, VW and Hyundai, few would get paid at all. Mikko was probably lucky to sign when he did and probably did ok financially.

[Wim_Impreza]

You're not missing something.....

Meeke is good on Tarmac....and I don't know what/who they've been watching.... Wilks??

I said Meeke was good on tarmac........ :confused: I will decide if he is brilliant on tarmac if he gets more chances in wrc next year. My bet is on the black stuff he would beat mads, mikko, novikov, mikklesen, and possibly fight with latvala and neuville but thats just my opinion.

Why do you rate Meeke so highly? When was the last time he finished an international rally without an accident? He wasn't that fast this year and he crashed in both rallies he entered. In one rally of them even twice. Meeke wasn't fast in 2011 with the factory Mini and he crashed again a lot. He had his chances and he blew it.

[tommeke_B]

Why do you rate Meeke so highly? When was the last time he finished an international rally without an accident? He wasn't that fast this year and he crashed in both rallies he entered. In one rally of them even twice. Meeke wasn't fast in 2011 with the factory Mini and he crashed again a lot. He had his chances and he blew it.
What planet are you from? If his pace in Finland and Australia was not good, what do you expect from somebody making a comeback after being out of (proper) competition for 2 years?!

[AndyRAC]

Meeke has yet to do a full WRC season in a WRCar.....A few events here and there is no good to any driver.

[RS]

Exactly, Neuville is a good example. A bit unreliable in year one but look at him in year two..

I thought Meeke's pace in Finland and Australia was excellent.

[er88]

Meeke's pace last year was great considering he had not driven competitively for aroung 2yrs. In australia- with no test before the rally and his first time at the event, he was running faster than novikov, mikklesen, ostberg and latvala. He was ahead of neuville too untill his stall and just behing mikko. I couldn't believe his pace tbh and he won the qualifying stage. Granted he crashed out, but what would people rather see? Someone setting pace like that showing what they could possibly achieve or someone who gets a drive and shows no pace whatsoever but finishes the rally behind prokop. Im not saying meeke is the best thing since sliced bread but he has raw pace and with a full season he wouldn't be under as much pressure so wouldnt crash out in every rally like some of you suggest. Meeke is citroens best option for next year hands down. Better than ostberg, better than duval and better than kubica so i just hope he finally gets what he deserves- a full season in the WRC.

[makinen_fan]

http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//la ... bff5ed6a26 (http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//launch.aspx?eid=9e2e5147-425a-40cf-b940-99bff5ed6a26)

Go to page 66 for more details on the new proposed class system

[Rallyper]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then? He´s got pace, but almost never reach the finish for different reasons (not only going off...)

[er88]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then? He´s got pace, but almost never reach the finish for different reasons (not only going off...)

PG Andersson has never shown pace like meeke did in australia, or even shown the pace meeke did in finland for that matter- but i admit i might be mistaken and just forgotten. So please remind me when PG showed good pace in his rallies in wrc car? :confused:

[Mirek]

Sweden 2011 for example. Except some stays in the snow he was bloody fast. He won several stages (3 of 6 six in leg 1) and was leading the rally initially.

[EightGear]

Those few events in the Fiesta didn't do his career any good though unfortunately.

[wrc45]

Does anybody know last years drivers salaries?

I imagine this response will attract emotions from the internet trolls.

It is a reasonable question but hard to answer. The money has appeared to dry up in recent years.

WRC does not have the same profile as F1 and WRC drivers do not affect manufacturers sales as much as F1. For instance, from the moment Mark Webber signed for Renault (and despite his form) the manufacturer sales in Australia Renault Sport soared to the point where Australia became the second largest world market for RS. So obviously Webber make a few bucks out of that.

Neuville was reported at 1 million Euro for Hyundai. (who knows the real number). If that is true, he is the hottest thing in the WRC other than Ogier, which given his unbeatable form this year and very rich team, would suggest he would be 4 or 5 million Euros.

MSport was reported at suggesting to Solberg he would have to pay to drive. Drivers like Mads have to find private money to keep them in a car.

So other than a Citroen, VW and Hyundai, few would get paid at all. Mikko was probably lucky to sign when he did and probably did ok financially.
Thank You !
Thats all i needed to know.

[rallyfun]

[quote="Wim_Impreza":1a88ogu5]
Why do you rate Meeke so highly? When was the last time he finished an international rally without an accident? He wasn't that fast this year and he crashed in both rallies he entered. In one rally of them even twice. Meeke wasn't fast in 2011 with the factory Mini and he crashed again a lot. He had his chances and he blew it.
What planet are you from? If his pace in Finland and Australia was not good, what do you expect from somebody making a comeback after being out of (proper) competition for 2 years?![/quote:1a88ogu5]
and he crashed 3 times in 2 rallies...no coment

[Rallyper]

Those few events in the Fiesta didn't do his career any good though unfortunately.

As for Meeke resent autumn. I hold PG for even faster than Meeke, but every expert talks their heads off for Meeke, and I don´t know why he should be the best choice for Citroen?

[Sulland]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then? He´s got pace, but almost never reach the finish for different reasons (not only going off...)

Maybe Tidemand has a better chance to get a seat?

[Andre Oliveira]

What about Sweden WRT project?

[litifeta]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then? He´s got pace, but almost never reach the finish for different reasons (not only going off...)

Exactly. And exactly the problem with rallying today. Turned into a sprint on known roads.

One strategy: drive your vehicle at the maximum speed for as long as you have the nerve. NASCAR on dirt.

[Rallyper]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then? He´s got pace, but almost never reach the finish for different reasons (not only going off...)

Maybe Tidemand has a better chance to get a seat?

For sure. But he won the JWRC this year and I believe he´s going for WRC2 next year. We have to wait for 2015 until he´s in a WRC car.

[RS]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then?

That is brave of you to say that after this year.

Swede fast in Sweden is nothing revolutionary, but there are 12 other rounds in the championship...

[Mirek]

Exactly. And exactly the problem with rallying today. Turned into a sprint on known roads.

One strategy: drive your vehicle at the maximum speed for as long as you have the nerve. NASCAR on dirt.

I suggest to You to go for example Ouninpohja and good luck in trying to memorize it. Besides that it's not like the rallies would not change their route when they keep same name...

[stefanvv]

I believe he´s going for WRC2 next year.
What car?

[Andre Oliveira]

Fiesta R5

[Rallyper]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then?

That is brave of you to say that after this year.

Swede fast in Sweden is nothing revolutionary, but there are 12 other rounds in the championship...

Well he was second in WRC2 in 2012 in Proton... When was Meeke ashieving that?

[RS]

Well he was second in WRC2 in 2012 in Proton... When was Meeke ashieving that?

What has that got to do with the price of fish?

[MTA]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then? He´s got pace, but almost never reach the finish for different reasons (not only going off...)

PG Andersson has never shown pace like meeke did in australia, or even shown the pace meeke did in finland for that matter- but i admit i might be mistaken and just forgotten. So please remind me when PG showed good pace in his rallies in wrc car? :confused:

Rally Norway 2009 in Fabia.

[jbmarcus21]

Latvala start the Monte Test
https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/statu ... 56/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/status/407514683990880256/photo/1)

and new aero for Polo ?
https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/statu ... 88/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/status/407534899118501888/photo/1)

[pettersolberg29]

I'd say PG is perhaps the most over-rated driver of recent times. Never shown any decent pace against decent opposition yet people always get excited about the chance of him in a WRC car. Thankfully people are starting to realise how average this guy is - hopefully he won't get in a WRC car again unless it's out his own pocket. If Sweden want a local driver then Tidemand is a much, much better option - at least there's a chance he'll be good one day.

[stefanvv]

Fiesta R5
Thanks. Looks like there will be more interesting WRC2 season than this year.

[Mirek]

Talking about pace and nothing else, why not mention PG Andersson then?

That is brave of you to say that after this year.

Swede fast in Sweden is nothing revolutionary, but there are 12 other rounds in the championship...

Well he was second in WRC2 in 2012 in Proton... When was Meeke ashieving that?

Meeke is IRC champion. That is definitely bigger achievement than to win WRC2 , not speaking about being 2nd in WRC2. Watch this year, Al Kuwari was 2nd in WRC2. Besides that Meeke could not win a championship which he never took part in...

Also Meeke is one of the only three drivers who managed to win Ypres on first attempts in it's long history (Toivinen, Rossetti, Meeke). Many tried and failed (Grönholm, Kankkunen...).

[Rallyper]

Well, to be honest Mirek, you know what PG has done. But that wasn´t my point.

Me too, think he´s fast but not anymore an option for any team, unless he´s got testing time and so on, so on...

I was just comparing to all the guys pledging for Meeke and the comparison was just spot on. Meeke = PG (unfortenatly)

[Mirek]

You were downplaying Meeke by an invalid argument so I reacted. I have never said anything against PG (as You can see in my previous posts). I actually like him, he is one of the most spectacular drivers around (so is Meeke) and he is also nice guy to talk with but the fact he was 2nd in WRC2 means almost nothing when speaking about possible factory seat. The two JWRC titles in the years of really strong competition mean much more but it's sooo long time a go...

[pettersolberg29]

I was just comparing to all the guys pledging for Meeke and the comparison was just spot on. Meeke = PG (unfortenatly)

Not even close - Meeke has shown great pace on his rare chances in a WRC car. PG hasn't - solid at best, mediocre more realistically. Neither are consistent, but if you had to pick one or the other then Meeke is simply the only option.

[Mirek]

I was just comparing to all the guys pledging for Meeke and the comparison was just spot on. Meeke = PG (unfortenatly)

Not even close - Meeke has shown great pace on his rare chances in a WRC car. PG hasn't - solid at best, mediocre more realistically. Neither are consistent, but if you had to pick one or the other then Meeke is simply the only option.

Hey, You are biased opposite way. PG was leading WRC rally overall and was winning stages overall when he had a proper car.

[pettersolberg29]

Hey, You are biased opposite way. PG was leading WRC rally overall and was winning stages overall when he had a proper car.

Maybe I'm missing something, and am happy to bow to superior - but never has PG properly threatened near the top really. Meeke has, and has that extra bit of pace that very few others do. Winning the qualifying stage last season was incredible - PG could never show such pace in my view. Not even on snow.

[bluuford]

Guys..have you seen PG driving in Rally Sweden.. totally crazy..bounching from one snow pile to another, cutting, doing all kind of spectacular things. But from the outside view you could almost bet that with such a style, it is not possible to cover the whole rally distance. Have you noticed that his cars do not last quite often? There is always a reason;-)
Meeke is fast, he started to crash with 207 when the car was slower than Fabia and he had to overdrive it to be competitive. Mini was mostly the one that gave up. He was not crashing too much with Mini I think.
Citroen realised that they cannot go on like this, so, they have to make very radical changes. I guess that Hirvonen and Kubica are lost to Ford already, Sordo to Hyundai. So, I have been thinking about it and found a solution.
As they do not need to think about championships in 2014 (they already stated), then they have to go in a radical way.
I would suggest to go like this:
1. Meeke
2. Tänak (this is not because I am Estonian)
1.Meeke is fast and he needs stability. Remember how many crashes Ogier had when he knew that he has only half season with WRC? Even two crashes in one stage in Cyprus (if I am not wrong). With longer contract, Meeke would surprise us.
2. Tänak-Citroen has been described as a car that is difficult to drive (by Sordo, Hirvonen, etc.) have you seen what Tänak did in Estonian and Latvian rallies in 2013? he was driving a bit old Subaru that was described by most of the drivers as a car that is very difficult to drive or non-driveable. and he just blew all the competition away with this car. Ott often said that he won because of better car:-)
So, whit proper testing (one of the big mproblems for Ott in 2012 was nearly 0km of testing) and stable contracts..these two would be the best options for Citroen in 2014.

[er88]

Sweden 2011 for example. Except some stays in the snow he was bloody fast. He won several stages (3 of 6 six in leg 1) and was leading the rally initially.

Thanks forgot about that :). I loved watching PG in scotland in 2011, he was spectacular to watch out on the stages untill the protons reliability curse hit again :rolleyes: Love his driving style. However, in WRC his pace in most of his outings havent been quick enough. My point is just i cant see how PG at this moment in their careers can be considered a better option than meeke - who was super impressive pace wise this year all things considered.

[andyone]

Meeke's pace last year was great considering he had not driven competitively for aroung 2yrs. In australia- with no test before the rally and his first time at the event, he was running faster than novikov, mikklesen, ostberg and latvala. He was ahead of neuville too untill his stall and just behing mikko. I couldn't believe his pace tbh and he won the qualifying stage. Granted he crashed out, but what would people rather see? Someone setting pace like that showing what they could possibly achieve or someone who gets a drive and shows no pace whatsoever but finishes the rally behind prokop. Im not saying meeke is the best thing since sliced bread but he has raw pace and with a full season he wouldn't be under as much pressure so wouldnt crash out in every rally like some of you suggest. Meeke is citroens best option for next year hands down. Better than ostberg, better than duval and better than kubica so i just hope he finally gets what he deserves- a full season in the WRC.
holy cow. you do have a point there my friend. pretty true. even Ogier was a crash freak during his early years him and conrad. its not easy to drive a WRC car agains people who have experience with it, i think Meeke needs a chance. same as Kubica

[RS]

Citroen realised that they cannot go on like this, so, they have to make very radical changes. I guess that Hirvonen and Kubica are lost to Ford already, Sordo to Hyundai. So, I have been thinking about it and found a solution.
As they do not need to think about championships in 2014 (they already stated), then they have to go in a radical way.


Apart from that I don't think they "lost" Hirvonen to Ford you've hit the nail on the head. There is nobody out there available right now who can beat VW to the titles next year so they may as well try something radical and different.

Are we sure Kubica is going to Ford? I thought that he and Meeke could have fitted the plan nicely. But I can see maybe Ostberg will end up at Citroen if he is paying.

Tanak is a nice idea but he doesn't seem to be in the radar of anyone right now. He needs to get back to active competition, whether that is a couple of rounds in a good WRCar or a proper bid for ERC or maybe WRC2. I am sure he is trying for that :)

[Mirek]

Guys..have you seen PG driving in Rally Sweden.. totally crazy..bounching from one snow pile to another, cutting, doing all kind of spectacular things. But from the outside view you could almost bet that with such a style, it is not possible to cover the whole rally distance. Have you noticed that his cars do not last quite often? There is always a reason;-)

The very same applies for Meeke even in events where there is nothing to fight for - like Ypres this year ;)

[Wim_Impreza]

Exactly, Neuville is a good example. A bit unreliable in year one but look at him in year two..

I thought Meeke's pace in Finland and Australia was excellent.

Meeke is already 34 years. He had time enough to do WRC rallies with a WRC car and he has shown only accidents and a few good stage times, that is all what he has done in the WRC... while Neuville is one of the greatest young talents, you can't say that about Meeke.

For me, Meeke and Hirvonen are the most overrating drivers in the last couple of years. They had their chances.

Andersson is only very fast in Sweden and in Norwegian national rallies in the past. There are better Swedes than him at the moment, like as example Pontus Tidemand.

[wwbroe]

I think Meeke still deserves a fair chance to prove his capabilities in WRC car. He has shown excellent pace in the two rally's he could do in WRC car this season. I think Matton would make the right choice to put him into Citroen. Anyhow, there are not too many drivers around who can make better times then Meeke, at least no drivers who are available. ;)

[bluuford]

Apart from that I don't think they "lost" Hirvonen to Ford you've hit the nail on the head. There is nobody out there available right now who can beat VW to the titles next year so they may as well try something radical and different.

Are we sure Kubica is going to Ford? I thought that he and Meeke could have fitted the plan nicely. But I can see maybe Ostberg will end up at Citroen if he is paying.

Tanak is a nice idea but he doesn't seem to be in the radar of anyone right now. He needs to get back to active competition, whether that is a couple of rounds in a good WRCar or a proper bid for ERC or maybe WRC2. I am sure he is trying for that :)
Yeah, lost was just an expression ;-)

I do not hink Ostberg is good idea for Citroen. He is always complaining about the set-up of his car (despite many hours of testing) and I remember him saying that he got some set-up adwise from his fater for the second part of GB.. get real!!! Who is drivin the car? Better if he stays at Ford. Then we would have two good and consistent drivers in Ford.

I do not think it is good idea to put Kubica straight into the Manufacturer seat. He has done only 0.3 rallies with real WRcar and the pressure would be too big.. and as we learned.. with new co-driver. I would say that it would not be radical, it would be almost stupid for the team and for himself as well. However, they can change drivers during the season.

Do not be so sure about Ott ;-)

[Doon]

I would say Tanak wasn't such a bad choice for Citroen atm. They have to try something as the drivers available to them ain't much cop apart from Meeke.

Kubica - Will be awesome, but lacks experience, however he would be my 2nd choice after Meeke.
Ostberg - When you look at how many events he's done including national ones, he really isn't that special. Had a great season in '12 but that's it.
Duval - Desparation if they choose a driver who was trashing cars 6 or 7 years ago, and having done very little since.
Hirvonen - Hope he is in a Ford next year. He's still one of the most consistant drivers, just had a bad season in '13.

To be honest Citroen might as well put Seb Chardonet in the car early if he is thier future star?

[Mirek]

To be honest Citroen might as well put Seb Chardonet in the car early if he is thier future star?

I somehow fail to see Chardonnet as such super talented driver. Maybe Gilbert or Lefevbre can do more?

[Doon]

Me neither, but i got the impression Citroen seem to think so? I'd say over the season Keith Cronin has shown the most promise of the DS3 R3 gang.

[stefanvv]

Me neither, but i got the impression Citroen seem to think so?
Somewhat like Ford's moto, Citroen's should be "If you wanna win, take Sebastien" :D

[dimviii]

To be honest Citroen might as well put Seb Chardonet in the car early if he is thier future star?

I somehow fail to see Chardonnet as such super talented driver. Maybe Gilbert or Lefevbre can do more?

Gilbert imho is faster among them.

[EightGear]

Let's say something crazy: Hans Weijs.

He still has a good connection to Yves Matton and has been one of the main test drivers for the R5 this year. I suppose his entry in the DS3 R3 in Wales wasn't just for fun either, and he drove a WRC in a round of the French gravel championship.

I know it's not really realistic, but he could be a factor (maybe for an R5 program).

[er88]

I think Meeke still deserves a fair chance to prove his capabilities in WRC car. He has shown excellent pace in the two rally's he could do in WRC car this season. I think Matton would make the right choice to put him into Citroen. Anyhow, there are not too many drivers around who can make better times then Meeke, at least no drivers who are available. ;)

Agree with this totally. Anyone who says meeke has had his chances in wrc is talking out their ass, hes never even had a full season in wrc. Btw do we even know yet if kubica will even be in wrc next year?

[vino_93]

To be honest Citroen might as well put Seb Chardonet in the car early if he is thier future star?

I somehow fail to see Chardonnet as such super talented driver. Maybe Gilbert or Lefevbre can do more?

no. I think none of them are future super star.
Gilbert crashed too much.
Chardonnet is consistant, but has a lack of speed.
Lefebvre is good, but not so good to be a new World Champion.

For me they are a bit like 00' generation, with Bernardi, Robert, Bengue, Vouilloz, Bouffier ... really good drivers, able to do great things, but missing something to be the next world champion.

[Mirek]

no. I think none of them are future super star.
Gilbert crashed too much.
Chardonnet is consistant, but has a lack of speed.
Lefebvre is good, but not so good to be a new World Champion.

For me they are a bit like 00' generation, with Bernardi, Robert, Bengue, Vouilloz, Bouffier ... really good drivers, able to do great things, but missing something to be the next world champion.

Any other interesting names in French cups which can bring something for the future? I'm not able to follow all Peugeot, Renault, Opel, Citroën cups in France...

[Rallyper]

I think Meeke still deserves a fair chance to prove his capabilities in WRC car. He has shown excellent pace in the two rally's he could do in WRC car this season. I think Matton would make the right choice to put him into Citroen. Anyhow, there are not too many drivers around who can make better times then Meeke, at least no drivers who are available. ;)

Agree with this totally. Anyone who says meeke has had his chances in wrc is talking out their ass, hes never even had a full season in wrc. Btw do we even know yet if kubica will even be in wrc next year?

Here we are again. Are you Meekes PR-consultants or what? There are many drivers without seat that might deserve a steering at Citroen besides Meeke. And I don´t mention PG one more time for an example. Many more there are.

[focus206]

no. I think none of them are future super star.
Gilbert crashed too much.
Chardonnet is consistant, but has a lack of speed.
Lefebvre is good, but not so good to be a new World Champion.

For me they are a bit like 00' generation, with Bernardi, Robert, Bengue, Vouilloz, Bouffier ... really good drivers, able to do great things, but missing something to be the next world champion.

Any other interesting names in French cups which can bring something for the future? I'm not able to follow all Peugeot, Renault, Opel, Citroën cups in France...
What about Germain Bonnefis? He didn't do bad this year in ERC before his injury, how is he rated?

[wwbroe]

[/quote]Here we are again. Are you Meekes PR-consultants or what? There are many drivers without seat that might deserve a steering at Citroen besides Meeke. And I don´t mention PG one more time for an example. Many more there are.[/quote]

You always come up with a lot of blabla, but you don't give any names, only defending PG. Don't get me wrong, i also love PG's style, but if you have the choice between Meeke or PG i don't think it is a difficult choice. But you are saying that there are a lot of better options, so come up with some names that are better choice....

[stefanvv]

I don't know if Meeke is the right choise for Citroen. If I remember right his goal for Australia set by Matton was to finish the Rally! Which he obviously failed to achieve - twice. He has the speed, yes, and will be entertaining to watch next WRC season, but I don't think this is what Citroen is looking for.

[litifeta]

to be in the points, you have to finish.

[stefanvv]

It's not just about the points. I think the team wanted to test his ability to handle extreme situations. Obviously the championship was lost to them. But to face VW's threat, they really need to find some new "Loeb", which is not Meeke.

[wwbroe]

It's not just about the points. I think the team wanted to test his ability to handle extreme situations. Obviously the championship was lost to them. But to face VW's threat, they really need to find some new "Loeb", which is not Meeke.

And who is this "new Loeb" for you? :D

[stefanvv]

It's not just about the points. I think the team wanted to test his ability to handle extreme situations. Obviously the championship was lost to them. But to face VW's threat, they really need to find some new "Loeb", which is not Meeke.

And who is this "new Loeb" for you? :D
Some young and ambitious driver, but I don't have anyone in mind ;)

EDIT: Probably Paddon is close to that profile, but he is in M-Sport, is he not?

[Rallyper]

The problem is that there aren´t so many. And PG was mentioned by me just as an example of a driver with similar career as Meeke. The only difference is Meeke had his show one year later than PG.
Others: if I could dream, maybe Petter, Märtin, Tänak, Loeb, Tidemand, Wilks(?), Evans, Paddon(?), PG (of course, as Meeke is mentioned) etz, etz. And when these are named also Meeke. ;)

[danon]

seeing the name Meeke a cartoon character Mickey Mouse pops to mind... :D

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5047/jdfh.jpg

[COD]

The problem I see here is that lots of peiple are just discussing has beens. I mean Meeke, PG, Hirvonen let alone Duval etc. Where are the real NEW talents? Paddon? Maybe, not convinced yet. Kubica in a way, if you are WRC2 champion, next logical step is WRC. I somehow hate it when people say you need private team expeience before steppng into WRC team. Why? If you are good driver, you are good in any car. McLaren took Magnussen into F1. Chardonnet? Maybe he needs to prove himself in WRC2 still, maybe not. Same with Tidemand. Still, worried that there is such small number of al young talents.

[stefanvv]

Yes, the young talents need to prove themselves in WRC2 first before thinking of WRC. It is the next logical step in drivers evolution. Loeb and Ogier are just exceptions jumping from junior champions right into WRC and have all that is necessary to be on top, that's just how amazing these drivers are. Probably there is a young driver out there capable of doing this, but it is big gamble before proving it right at least for 1 year.

[RS]

I don't know if Meeke is the right choise for Citroen. If I remember right his goal for Australia set by Matton was to finish the Rally! Which he obviously failed to achieve - twice. He has the speed, yes, and will be entertaining to watch next WRC season, but I don't think this is what Citroen is looking for.

Telling someone to "finish at all costs" is almost as stupid as telling a mentally fragile driver he is undisputed no.1 from the start of the season.

[stefanvv]

I don't know if Meeke is the right choise for Citroen. If I remember right his goal for Australia set by Matton was to finish the Rally! Which he obviously failed to achieve - twice. He has the speed, yes, and will be entertaining to watch next WRC season, but I don't think this is what Citroen is looking for.

Telling someone to "finish at all costs" is almost as stupid as telling a mentally fragile driver he is undisputed no.1 from the start of the season.
I didn't get your point. Why not? If some driver can't control his Rally, this discussion is over. Everybody are considering Latvala as fragile driver, but he obviously had done exaclty that last few Rallies. So why Meeke can't do the same?

[danon]

Before the meeting in Paris the changes are known - http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ml&act=url (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbgnrc.info%2Foshte-na-saita%2Fwrc%2Fitem%2F%25D0%25BF%25D1%2580%25D0%25B 5%25D0%25B4%25D0%25B8-%25D1%2581%25D1%2580%25D0%25B5%25D1%2589%25D0%25B0 %25D1%2582%25D0%25B0-%25D0%25B2-%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B0%25D1%2580%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B6-%25D0%25BF%25D1%2580%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D0%25B5 %25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%2582%25D0%25B5-%25D1%2581%25D0%25B0-%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B2%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581 %25D1%2582%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8-2.html&act=url)

[RS]

There are many drivers without seat that might deserve a steering at Citroen besides Meeke.


The problem is that there aren´t so many.
Others: if I could dream, maybe Petter, Märtin, Tänak, Loeb, Tidemand, Wilks(?), Evans, Paddon(?),

Martin & Loeb I don't think have any intention of coming back.

Wilks is not as good as Meeke.

Evans, Tidemand; promising but have some way to go yet. Need to have a full season in a feeder series to prove themselves. Paddon, jury is still out IMO, also needs more time in ERC or WRC2.

You were right with your second statement, there aren't so many...

Only realistic ones of those mentioned are Petter, Meeke, Tanak.

[litifeta]

what a joke. no more R4 cars for Europe. That should satisfy the Euro manufacturers who are unable and unwilling to build something remotely like the car they race, for consumers.

[er88]

I think Meeke still deserves a fair chance to prove his capabilities in WRC car. He has shown excellent pace in the two rally's he could do in WRC car this season. I think Matton would make the right choice to put him into Citroen. Anyhow, there are not too many drivers around who can make better times then Meeke, at least no drivers who are available. ;)

Agree with this totally. Anyone who says meeke has had his chances in wrc is talking out their ass, hes never even had a full season in wrc. Btw do we even know yet if kubica will even be in wrc next year?

Here we are again. Are you Meekes PR-consultants or what? There are many drivers without seat that might deserve a steering at Citroen besides Meeke. And I don´t mention PG one more time for an example. Many more there are.

No im not his PR guy anymore , i used to be but he fired me for not getting him a full time seat in 2012 and 2013 unfortunately :laugh:. Being serious though, Im not the only person who thinks meeke is citroens best option now with the better drivers in other teams. Some of the suggestions youve come up with are laughable or all scandinavian . If citroen want a 'steady eddie' to finish rallies, bringing the car home in 7th or 8th they should hire chardonnet as he has a good track record of finishing rallies it appears. But i somehow doubt citroen are looking for that. Rallyper take your blinkers off man, if you seriously believe wilks, evans, PG, tiedmand, paddon etc are better option next year for citroen than kris. Kris has downsides but he is a better driver atm than those youve mentioned, other than the retired loeb :) .

[Mirek]

what a joke. no more R4 cars for Europe. That should satisfy the Euro manufacturers who are unable and unwilling to build something remotely like the car they race, for consumers.

It doesn't look like Mitsubishi and Subaru want to continue with production cars in new generation. We shall prepare for all N4/R4 disappearance in the future.

[Mirek]

Yes, the young talents need to prove themselves in WRC2 first before thinking of WRC. It is the next logical step in drivers evolution. Loeb and Ogier are just exceptions jumping from junior champions right into WRC and have all that is necessary to be on top, that's just how amazing these drivers are. Probably there is a young driver out there capable of doing this, but it is big gamble before proving it right at least for 1 year.

When JWRC had proper support it was enough to step up. No feeder 4WD category was needed. As You mentioned - Loeb, Ogier or Sordo didn't need any step between. WRC2 seems to be more a category for wealthy gentleman drivers with only few exceptions from the rule.

[bluuford]

Loeb and Ogier did not step directly into big factory nominated team either. On Loeb times, there were still 3 cars nominated and it was possible to enter him as third car (On first season, Citroen did not take part the whole season as well). Moreover, Loeb did even some rallies with Corolla WRC in 2000 (Sanremo and Corse).
Ogier had frist start in GB and then he had almost the whole season as Citroen second team. I do not remember anyone in recent history who has just come.. done 0.3 rallies with WRC and popped in Manufacturer team for all events. The pressure would be too big.

[Rallyper]

I think Meeke still deserves a fair chance to prove his capabilities in WRC car. He has shown excellent pace in the two rally's he could do in WRC car this season. I think Matton would make the right choice to put him into Citroen. Anyhow, there are not too many drivers around who can make better times then Meeke, at least no drivers who are available. ;)

No im not his PR guy anymore , i used to be but he fired me for not getting him a full time seat in 2012 and 2013 unfortunately :laugh:. Being serious though, Im not the only person who thinks meeke is citroens best option now with the better drivers in other teams. Some of the suggestions youve come up with are laughable or all scandinavian . If citroen want a 'steady eddie' to finish rallies, bringing the car home in 7th or 8th they should hire chardonnet as he has a good track record of finishing rallies it appears. But i somehow doubt citroen are looking for that. Rallyper take your blinkers off man, if you seriously believe wilks, evans, PG, tiedmand, paddon etc are better option next year for citroen than kris. Kris has downsides but he is a better driver atm than those youve mentioned, other than the retired loeb :) [/quote]

You still don´t understand what I mean. I don´t say they are better options in the first place, only that they can be mentioned at the same time you say Meeke. (Eg. I started comparing with PG).
I just want to point out there are more drivers than just MEEKE.
Nordic dreams? Yeah in a way, but I try to be serious as well. Forgot though: Lappi, Kubica, Novikov, Ostberg, Breen ... All are drivers without us knowing if they have a seat.

[Carbon]

What about Tänak? He is trying to get a seat too. :rolleyes:

[Barreis]

If I'm the boss in company and tell worker to do important job properly and worker twice 'properly' scr€€w up, would I give him a job? No. So why to put Meeke in works seat if he doesn't pay for it?! Also to be IRC and WRC champ is different.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1472008_129730830530864_855465560_n.jpg?dl=1

[OnlyRally]

What about Tänak? He is trying to get a seat too. :rolleyes:

Tänak's 2012 season was similar to Neuvilles, same amount of points in the end of the year. Power stage win in France on tarmac and podium in Italy on gravel. That was his first ever season in world rally car and he had no testing at all between the rallies. I think he deservs a second chance. But that is just my opinion.

[Mintexmemory]

In addition, the Peugeot Rally Academy, created by Peugeot Sport in 2013 to showcase emerging talent, will enter Dutch driver Kevin Abbring and Irishman Craig Breen in a pair of R5-specification 208 T16s on several rounds of the ERC.
- Extract from ERC News

Now this will be a good indication of whether either of these young men can step up to WRC in late 2014 or for 2015.
Citroen should also be considering Chardonnet, Gilbert, Weijs jr. and Ancian as Al Q stand-ins to gauge their progress

I've been impressed with Abbring's style whenever I've seen him but I think a regular top line co-driver could make all the difference.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1472008_129730830530864_855465560_n.jpg?dl=1

If i understand right, we will have Fiesta R5 with same name, but instead appears on class 2, appears RC2. WRC appears RC1 instead WRC and so on...

[Tom206wrc]

no. I think none of them are future super star.
Gilbert crashed too much.
Chardonnet is consistant, but has a lack of speed.
Lefebvre is good, but not so good to be a new World Champion.

For me they are a bit like 00' generation, with Bernardi, Robert, Bengue, Vouilloz, Bouffier ... really good drivers, able to do great things, but missing something to be the next world champion.

Any other interesting names in French cups which can bring something for the future? I'm not able to follow all Peugeot, Renault, Opel, Citroën cups in France...


I'd say the 2013 "Rallye-Jeunes": Laurent Laskowski and especially Eric Camilli(the fastest of the two drivers) :)
What Camilli did in the DS3 R1 and then in the DS3 R3 in french tarmac championship was simply outstanding :eek:

[Mirek]

Mérci beaucoup!

[Sulland]

News from FIA: http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-3

[er88]

What about Tänak? He is trying to get a seat too. :rolleyes:

Tanaks situation has puzzled me. His first wrc season and neuvilles were very similiar, and look where Thierry is now. Against Hanninen in swrc tanak showed great speed too so i think its been unfortunate that Tanak has been totally left out. Maybe his 1st year in wrc was a bit too early but i hope he gets a chance again sometime in the future at least.

[Tom206wrc]

News from FIA: http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-3


No news about JWRC and Citroën :confused:

[Rallyper]

Yeah, Tanak would be the man. :bounce: He´s got the thing needed. Give him a chance!

Maybe even Meeke could have but as second driver. :confused:

Citroen could use both in a good way to score as much points as possible.

[dimviii]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111720

Dani Sordo will be confirmed as a Hyundai World Rally Championship driver for the 2014-opening Monte Carlo event next week.

The Spaniard is expected to tackle all asphalt rounds of next year's championship alongside Thierry Neuville in an i20 WRC.

Hyundai Motorsport has recently revealed Thierry Neuville and Juho Hanninen as drivers of the all-new i20 WRC, but declined to make comment on any crew who will join them next season.

Sordo, who was unavailable when AUTOSPORT tried to contact him, will compete on the asphalt rounds of the 2014 calendar following his seventh start in the French Alps next month.

The Spaniard has a strong record on the Monte, finishing on the podium on three of his last four outings.

Hyundai will confirm its driver line-up at a launch in Frankfurt next week, but a tweet - which has been subsequently removed - from Hyundai Spain confirmed the deal.

The tweet said: "Dani Sordo will run with Hyundai on the Monte Carlo Rally and other rounds of the world championship."

Sordo's decision removes him from Citroen's list of possible drivers. Citroen reveals its team on December 16.

[vino_93]

no. I think none of them are future super star.
Gilbert crashed too much.
Chardonnet is consistant, but has a lack of speed.
Lefebvre is good, but not so good to be a new World Champion.

For me they are a bit like 00' generation, with Bernardi, Robert, Bengue, Vouilloz, Bouffier ... really good drivers, able to do great things, but missing something to be the next world champion.

Any other interesting names in French cups which can bring something for the future? I'm not able to follow all Peugeot, Renault, Opel, Citroën cups in France...

Two, but still very young :
Axel Garcia : he win 2013 French Junior championship for his second year of rally. He started in 2012. For his 4th rally, he done Critérium des Cévennes, and finished on the podium in Junior champ !
For sure, great great hope in France. He is from Enjolras family.
Another is Laurent Pellier. He started rally this year, and did pretty good performance. He did podiums in french junior champ and win the DS3 R1 trophy in Var. He did one year on track. He can be interesting things in the future, and I think he'll be next junior champion. But he has a small lack of consistancy for the moment.

Other good, but not so sure if they can be top class driver :
Eric Camilli and Laurent Laskowski, both Rallyes Jeunes. They did incredible perf with DS3 R3 in their last race of the year, as fast as Robert on various stages. Let's see what happened to them next year, as the 2011 winners are nowhere now, even if they were less impressive.
At a bigger step there are other good drivers, as Charles Martin, who showed great perf. He finished 2nd in junior champ in 2012, and this year impressed in 208 R2 trophy. Let's see how he'll turn.

[Mirek]

Thank You as well.

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvFF8twfESM

[Teme]

New groups:

http://imageshack.com/a/img29/7183/8dzv.png

[Rallyper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvFF8twfESM

Nice marketing from Huyndai.

[EightGear]

I've been impressed with Abbring's style whenever I've seen him but I think a regular top line co-driver could make all the difference.

He had one with Miclotte, but unfortunately they didn't really get a fair opportunity in 2012 by VW.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1472008_129730830530864_855465560_n.jpg?dl=1

teme look the other page ;)

[Teme]

teme look the other page ;)

Didn't notice that one. Anyway, now it is here in both Portuguese and English :P

[wwbroe]

Seems like FIA decided that they are going trough with the change in groups. Another thing they decided is that all WRC drivers will use colored banners on the windscreen, so that it is clear in what class a certain competitor is competing. Hallelujah... :D

Source: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/12/04/es-kommt-mehr-farbe-ins-spiel/index.html)

[Mintexmemory]

I've been impressed with Abbring's style whenever I've seen him but I think a regular top line co-driver could make all the difference.

He had one with Miclotte, but unfortunately they didn't really get a fair opportunity in 2012 by VW.

His english is very good but do you know if he needs his notes in Dutch / Flemish? He's had Mombaerts too iirc and Lara :colour:
Was Fred M a regular or a one-off when he wasn't with Kuipers or Loix?

[er88]

Yeah, Tanak would be the man. :bounce: He´s got the thing needed. Give him a chance!

Maybe even Meeke could have but as second driver. :confused:

Citroen could use both in a good way to score as much points as possible.

Im sure Tanak will be back in wrc at some stage, if only he could get some funding for even just partial erc programme to get him back in the loop. I doubt we will see him next year but i agree with you and bluuford here that Meeke+ Tanak pairing wouldn't be the worst solution out there for citroen but both are very crash prone, it would be exciting though :laugh:! As Kielder said in hyundai thread, whoever citroen get as another driver it could surprise people.

[EightGear]

I've been impressed with Abbring's style whenever I've seen him but I think a regular top line co-driver could make all the difference.

He had one with Miclotte, but unfortunately they didn't really get a fair opportunity in 2012 by VW.

His english is very good but do you know if he needs his notes in Dutch / Flemish? He's had Mombaerts too iirc and Lara :colour:
Was Fred M a regular or a one-off when he wasn't with Kuipers or Loix?

He was to be his regular co-driver. VW wanted to have someone with more experience sitting next to him so they basically threw Lara out after Monte Carlo. But then they only got 3 more events for the rest of the year.

[bluuford]

Yeah, all the changes are shortly here:
http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-3
I think the start order solution is great (back to the older system). Championship order only for the first day and then reversed for the reminder of the event. It helps privateers/young guns to shine on the first day and then gives exitement for the next days when the championship leader is making up his possible deficit. It makes things more equal, then everybody can taste loose gravel and privateers/young guns does not look slower that they actually are:-) Current system was a bit too much biased to the best driver driection (They always got the best conditions). Good thing is that everybody who wants to lead champinship must take into account the fact that they have to sweep roads at the beginning of next event.

I am a bit skeptical about using R3 for JWRC. Are the costs going to stay the same? It definitely increases the costs when drivers wants to have similar car for practicing.

Colors are funny, I hope that next idea is coloring all windscreens to certain colour: Green (beginner) windows for JWRC and WRC3, Yellow windows for WRC2 and black (as a boss) for all WRC-s :-P If it is not working the I suggest to paint the whole car according to its class ;-)

[Mirek]

I am a bit skeptical about using R3 for JWRC. Are the costs going to stay the same? It definitely increases the costs when drivers wants to have similar car for practicing.

If it is not more expensive than with Fiesta R2 than it means the JWRC in M-Sport hands was far overpriced... but in my opinion it will be more expensive.

[Allar]

What about Tänak? He is trying to get a seat too. :rolleyes:

Tanaks situation has puzzled me. His first wrc season and neuvilles were very similiar, and look where Thierry is now. Against Hanninen in swrc tanak showed great speed too so i think its been unfortunate that Tanak has been totally left out. Maybe his 1st year in wrc was a bit too early but i hope he gets a chance again sometime in the future at least.
He will drive Citroen next year but not sure if just R5 or some events with WRC too.

[bluuford]

So, Ostberg, Meeke, Tänak looks logical. Tänak doing WRC2 and testing their new R5 car and then replacing Ostberg on tarmac events (Ostberg may still do those but not in nominated car)? sounds reasonable. Tänak was already mostly faster than Ostberg in Germany and in Spain (on tarmac stages) despite no testing nearly first events with WRC on tarmac. But we do not know how Ostberg adopts to different car.. We will see ;-)

[miniwintz]

Wasn't Tänak looking for funding to do selected events in WRC-2/Fiesta R5 a few months back? If Citroën signed him it's pretty good news. With Kubica, Hänninen and possibly Meeke back in the championship chances are that 2014 season will be a whole lot more exciting than it has been in the recent years.

[Rallyper]

Wasn't Tänak looking for funding to do selected events in WRC-2/Fiesta R5 a few months back? If Citroën signed him it's pretty good news. With Kubica, Hänninen and possibly Meeke back in the championship chances are that 2014 season will be a whole lot more exciting than it has been in the recent years.

Thanks to one more factory team...

[N.O.T]

Wasn't Tänak looking for funding to do selected events in WRC-2/Fiesta R5 a few months back? If Citroën signed him it's pretty good news. With Kubica, Hänninen and possibly Meeke back in the championship chances are that 2014 season will be a whole lot more exciting than it has been in the recent years.

i think the battle for second place was very exciting in the majority of the last few years as well... so no change for 2014.

[Allar]

Wasn't Tänak looking for funding to do selected events in WRC-2/Fiesta R5 a few months back? If Citroën signed him it's pretty good news. With Kubica, Hänninen and possibly Meeke back in the championship chances are that 2014 season will be a whole lot more exciting than it has been in the recent years.
Yes, Tänak was looking for funding, but nobody mentioned Fiesta R5. Right now its Unknown if Tänak is singed by Citroen or just a customer. Lets wait and see :)

[Rallyper]

I think it´s good to hear Tanak might be back. As said above, he deserves a second chance. No stardriver was it without training and practising (even crashes).

[er88]

Wasn't Tänak looking for funding to do selected events in WRC-2/Fiesta R5 a few months back? If Citroën signed him it's pretty good news. With Kubica, Hänninen and possibly Meeke back in the championship chances are that 2014 season will be a whole lot more exciting than it has been in the recent years.
Yes, Tänak was looking for funding, but nobody mentioned Fiesta R5. Right now its Unknown if Tänak is singed by Citroen or just a customer. Lets wait and see :)

If Tanak has been signed id be happily surprised but maybe his paying for r5. With Meeke in and possibly Tanak having some involvement with citroen too be interesting to see where ostberg winds up. Stay at Msport?