[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[ThomasS]

There was a months long investigation done by our driver's association in co-operation with number of specialized doctors. As a result the association asked our ASN to change status of HANS from mandatory to voluntary as they found direct connection between the use of HANS and the new phenomena of broken lumbar vertebrae after HANS introduction (You are wrong in Your assumption that this kind of injuries was frequent before - it was very rare). The request was also directed to FIA. There was no result at all so as a next step there was a petition of drivers and co-driver's against the obligation of HANS use. It was signed by some 200 drivers and co-drivers but the result from ASN was again zero. Only repeating of same phrases like You do. Nobody denies very positive effect of HANS in case of frontal impact but on the contrary to circuits most of rally crashes are not frontal ones. Anyway if somebody wants to use it on voluntary basis, no problem. Fact is that to make HANS mandatory in all events run under FIA rules created demand for thousands of devices and that was a huge business. When that market was filled they put HANS into cross-country events where it has even less meaning, especially for truckers where it also limits side-visibility which is very dangerous when driving close to "small" competitors such as buggies or even bikes. I have never heard any positive word from cross country crews about HANS but a lot of complains.

Anyway You are reported for constant infractions. You don't need to reply because I will not read it.

I thought I was on your ignore list anyhow so why reply now ?


Does this new phenomena have a name ?


Your inferring a conspiracy within the FIA because of invested business interests or conflict of interest , that's a bold comment and a whole different argument.
I can only assume that FIA gave the study due diligence and decided there was not the evidence . Was it peer reviewed ?


I'm not wrong about the incidences of Lumbar vz Cervical complaints and injuries. They have always been more prevalent.


And yes I know that the HANS is designed for front impact but did your ASN study the relationship between side impact , seat design and any unintended consequence of the wearing a HANS ? Or what the outcome differences be between not wearing HANS and wearing it might be ? Testing data ? Sled tests ?


I'm not baiting here but the investigation sounds more like a drivers referendum with a preconceived outcome than a sound scientific study.


I would love to read this investigation if someone can refer it to me.

[sollitt]

Mirek, I absolutely agree with your position on HANS. I have fought for many years for my own ASN to refrain from making HANS compulsory in any level of the sport in my country.
HANS is a frontal impact device designed for use in circuit racing. The dynamics and the risks in rallying are totally different and I do not believe the HANS is an appropriate bit of kit at all.
As you suggest, there has been quite some evidence that it may be doing more harm than good.
Happy for it be a voluntary use item with users well informed.

[Kalm]

From Ott Tänak`s FB : "Back in a proper car, I've been missing it a lot!"https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1234799_466405520125189_2090095495_n.jpg

[dimviii]

Becs Williams ‏@Becsywecsy (https://twitter.com/Becsywecsy)42λ (https://twitter.com/Becsywecsy/status/372063069658427392)
Huge congratulations to @E_Brynildsen (https://twitter.com/E_Brynildsen) who welcomed a baby girl into the world today! You can't be 'babyface' now! Lots of love to the family

[Barreis]

Hybrid man...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=364438613659581&set=a.261224613980982.41765.241928752577235&type=1&theater

[euskalteam]

Auriol and Delecour with 2 Fiesta WRC in Rally France? Anyone heard something? :eek:

[dimviii]

World Rally Championship - News - Nagle to co-drive for Mikkelsen in Australia (http://www.wrc.com/news/nagle-to-co-drive-for-mikkelsen-in-australia/?fid=19012)

[Kielder]

Auriol and Delecour with 2 Fiesta WRC in Rally France? Anyone heard something? :eek:

Auriol is expected to drive in Catalunya. The co-driver will be the one we love, you know. A pic of their last participation together in the WRC.

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2005/wrc/mc/pl_a_6_auriol_2.jpg

The one who will run in Alsace is Romain Dumas, driving a Fiesta too.

[Kielder]

As I wrote on Twitter, it is published today in Autohebdo. All the credits to them, I'm just a forest :D .

[dimviii]

Kubica refused to drive for Hyundai

La victoria en Alemania facilita el futuro a Dani Sordo | Más Motor | AS.com (http://motor.as.com/motor/2013/08/27/mas_motor/1377598874_975751.html)

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Any particular reason why he said no?
I'm guessing he doesn't have the confidence to lead a brand-new team.

I reckon the best thing for Kubica would be for Lotos to stop funding the Lotos WRC team and instead back customer Polos. Put Kubica in one car, and Mikkelsen in the other. Just run it as Volkswagen Motorsport II under a new name.

[EightGear]

I'm afraid Kubica won't be rallying anymore next year, to me it seems like he wants to return to the circuits.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Do you have anything to support that idea? I know Citroen wanted him alongside Loeb in the WTCC, but then they took Muller. And despite the silliness of the Formula 1 silly season, Kubica's name hasn't come up once (though I have heard rumours that he is faster than both Hamilton and Rosberg in the Mercedes simulator), and there would still be serious questions about his arm.

[WUff1]

Do you have anything to support that idea? I know Citroen wanted him alongside Loeb in the WTCC, but then they took Muller. And despite the silliness of the Formula 1 silly season, Kubica's name hasn't come up once (though I have heard rumours that he is faster than both Hamilton and Rosberg in the Mercedes simulator), and there would still be serious questions about his arm.

Looks like maybe you could be right reading this: Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.at/?hl=de&tab=wT#de/en/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorline.cc%2Frallye%2F2013%2FRa llye-WM%2FWRC-Deutschland-Rallye-Kubica-nach-Sieg-WRC2-F%25C3%25BChrender-181429.html)

[thuGG]

Do you have anything to support that idea? I know Citroen wanted him alongside Loeb in the WTCC, but then they took Muller. And despite the silliness of the Formula 1 silly season, Kubica's name hasn't come up once (though I have heard rumours that he is faster than both Hamilton and Rosberg in the Mercedes simulator), and there would still be serious questions about his arm.

Just listen to him: Robert Kubica - Rajd Niemiec 2013 - dekoracja - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23C4RxniQz4)
And I don't think so he wants to drive WTCC, he refused DTM so I'd be shocked if he agreed to WTCC deal.

[Bartek]

One way to see Robert in circuit is F1, no WTCC, no DTM. F1 or WRC. I'm not surprised that Kubica refused Hyundai, he want to be a World Rally Champion not development driver.

[HarriK]

Is Kubica capable to handle WRC car shifter yet?

[thuGG]

He was capable of handling it during Portuguese rally when hydraulic system broke down and paddle shifter didn't work. But I guess it would be modified just as his WRC2 rally car.

[HarriK]

He was capable of handling it during Portuguese rally when hydraulic system broke down and paddle shifter didn't work. But I guess it would be modified just as his WRC2 rally car.

As I have though, no one will allow him to use that paddle system in WRC-car. Just for WRC2.

[thuGG]

As I have though, no one will allow him to use that paddle system in WRC-car. Just for WRC2.

That's your opinion or facts?

[NxOxT]

That's your opinion or facts?

It is a fact...paddle shifters are banned... but they might make an exception for Kubica...

[tommeke_B]

Any particular reason why he said no?
I'm guessing he doesn't have the confidence to lead a brand-new team.

I reckon the best thing for Kubica would be for Lotos to stop funding the Lotos WRC team and instead back customer Polos. Put Kubica in one car, and Mikkelsen in the other. Just run it as Volkswagen Motorsport II under a new name.
I think the particular reason why "he refused" must be because this trash-newspaper made it all up before and there was nobody else to confirm the story? ;)

[Barreis]

As I have though, no one will allow him to use that paddle system in WRC-car. Just for WRC2.

FIA gave approval...

[vkangas]

It is a fact...paddle shifters are banned... but they might make an exception for Kubica...
FIA made an exeption (WRC2) for Kubica after Citroen proved that no advantage can be gained from the system (it's made little bit slower than a standard gearshift allows a good driver to shift). So I would expect similar arrangement is quite possible in WRC too as the system is a handicap for a good driver, not an advantage.

[Andre Oliveira]

RRC are a WRC downgrade, same homologation sheet, so... ;)

[scn]

Don't be surprised if you see an announcement that Kubica has a contract with Citroen for full program in WRC

[Prisoner Monkeys]

WUff1, I could read that.

Except that I can't because I don't speak the language.

[thuGG]

Don't be surprised if you see an announcement that Kubica has a contract with Citroen for full program in WRC

I wouldn't be surprised. Is it some kind of insider info?

[tommeke_B]

I wouldn't be surprised. Is it some kind of insider info?

Yes, inside info from inside his dreams. :)

[Eli]

does anybody know if Peugeot are planning a return to the WRC???

[scn]

Yes, inside info from inside his dreams. :)
It is certainly not insider info and it is not from inside my dreams.
If you want my opinion, such a thing would be the final disaster for the already desperate Citroen.

[tommeke_B]

Well, Yves Matton already said several times (public) that Kubica may do some events with WRC next year, but not the whole championship... ;)

[cytrus]

I think Kubica can start the 2014 season in the WRC.
His progress is huge :)
What about the WRC calendar 2014?
Any news?

[miniwintz]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/154313-rally-should-they-add-wrc-calendar-20.html#post1156889

They dropped Acropolis and exchanged it with Rajd Polski

[cytrus]

Would be great if Poland was again WRC ;)
In 2009, it was great

[nafpaktos]

By throwing acropolis out of the championship they just destroy-decompose the wrc.Im not saying that as greek but i support this as a wrc fun.Iwould say the same thing for tour de corse, monte,sweden porugal,italy,finland,rac,safari.When todt became fia chairman i was expecting totally different approach towards rallying because of his prior experience,i was expecting wrc to thrive during todts days.Unfortunatelly i was wrong.I really dont understand what are they trying to achieve by making that kind of moves.Something that i also cannot understand is the high fee that a rally must pay in order to be part of wrc.Do they have that big need for money?(fia and promoters)

[NxOxT]

By throwing acropolis out of the championship they just destroy-decompose the wrc.

LOL... the classic holy cow myth.... ridiculous..

De Gaulle once said "The graveyards are full of indispensable men"

Acropolis was a shadow of its former shelf once they moved it to Athens for the dogs of the capital to feast on it...from the then on it was crap....simple as that... the last few years survived due to some people spending their own money and they fully deserve every credit but still the event was crap...

The WRC will survive no matter what... so my advice is that the organisers should live up to its standards and not just wait for the FIA to choose them because of tradition.

[nafpaktos]

@NOT
I met a lot of people from all over the europe in ss or in sp the last years and all of them were excited with acropolis.Explain to me why you thing the rally is not good since it moved to athens.Of course my preference is central greece(lamia)because of the beautiful ss but i dont think it sucks since it is moved to athens.It is well knwon that people from north greece hate athens and this is why you talk about dogs from athens,because they took the event far from north greece.When it was in central greece people from north greece were able to follow the event,now its difficult for them.The problem for you is Athens and nothing else.NOT you confirm the rule (by saying about dogs from athens)that a lot of people from north greece are prejudiced against athens.(even for an earthquake in north greece athens is to blame for)Τhanks again for confirming the rule.

[AndyRAC]

As I've said elsewhere, an event shouldn't change just so it can remain in the WRC. Making all events the same has ruined many events. And once changed - it's not possible to go back.

[nafpaktos]

Αndy if you talk about acropolis i must inform you that even the location has changed our rally remains the toughest in the callendar and the character of the rally hasnt changed.i must also mention that south greece was part of rally acropolis during the epic decades of the past.South greece is not something strange for acropolis ,it used to be part of the rally for MANY years.Now it is just the main part.

[AndyRAC]

I actually wasn't talking about the Acropolis - other events have changed to keep their WRC place. Only the Monte had the guts to stick two fingers up to the FiA...

[scn]

Acropolis was a shadow of its former shelf once they moved it to Athens for the dogs of the capital to feast on it...from the then on it was crap....simple as that... the last few years survived due to some people spending their own money and they fully deserve every credit but still the event was crap...

It is obvious that you do not have the slightest idea about Acropolis. First of all, the main characteristic of the roads around Athens is that they are extremely rough. They are the roughest roads, not only in Greece, but in the whole history of WRC including Safari, much worse than you can imagine in your worst dreams. And the same time they have sections that are very fast and spectacular. This meant that the character of the rally remained the same as before and made it even more distinct that the rest of the gravel rallies, which are actually sprints. The problem was that spectators from the rest of Greece got angry about Athens being again the center of an event and also Acropolis stopped being an opportunity for the spectators to have a three day excursion on the mountains. This is the ONLY reason that they disliked it and the only reason some journalists talked bad about the event. The battles between Solberg, Loeb and Gronholm in these events have provided some of the best scenes I have ever seen.
After that, the event had also one day in Peloponese and one in Central Greece, as it was before 1986, but with fewer km of course. The roads are not as tough as around Athens, but the character of the rally is still the same and I say this because I have driven through all the Acropolis stages, new and old ones. It is still the toughest event, some of its sections are unbelievably rough for anyone that hasn't seen them, and it is a very distinct challenge for cars and drivers. All the other events of the WRC are sprints. Acropolis is still the only rally with the full sense of the word and an event that the driver has to think besides driving fast. Is there another event except Acropolis and Monte that demands this?
The problem with Acropolis is not its character. The problem is purely about money and, to a big part, about money that the former (now gone bankrupt) organizer still owes to FIA for reason that does not regard Acropolis but another activity. Unfortunately, these money cannot be paid by the former organizer, nor anybody else who does not actually owe them, so FIA chooses to punish Acropolis.

[Andre Oliveira]

I only have to say, that as rally enthusiast prefer Acropolis to "my" rally de Portugal (on Algarve).

[nafpaktos]

@scn I totally agree with you.No much things can be said except from the fact that the major problem for our rally is the lack of resources in order to raise the appropriate amount of money to pay the fee for being our rally part of the calendar.This is i believe is the main reason and not fia temper to punish our rally for the money we owe them.
1.2 million for three years is crazy even for a state without financial probems.of course the fact that we owe them money is not an asset to our sleeve.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Rally NZ pulls out of 2014 calendar entry to let Rally Australia run for 3 years on new rotation scheme to make sponsors happy, then NZ comes back for 3 years.

I hate it. Rally NZ every year and I live in Australia!

[WRCfan]

Rally NZ pulls out of 2014 calendar entry to let Rally Australia run for 3 years on new rotation scheme to make sponsors happy, then NZ comes back for 3 years.

I hate it. Rally NZ every year and I live in Australia!

I was gutted to say the least hearing that news. NZ will never get it back now...

[eestlane]

WRC should have 16 rounds so Australia and NZ both could be in the calendar. I think that Cyprus, corsica, turkey and san remo should also deserve a place in WRC.

[Eli]

i can't belive it, Australia for another 3 years, at least it would have been in Perth...

[makinen_fan]

That's really bad news for WRC. I hope that no more iconic rallies are dropped from the calendar, especially Acropolis

[Eli]

That's really bad news for WRC. I hope that no more iconic rallies are dropped from the calendar, especially Acropolis

I'm sorry disappoint you but if i remember correctly there where lots of rummors suggesting that the Acropolis Rally was dropped in favour of Poland.

[makinen_fan]

I'm sorry disappoint you but if i remember correctly there where lots of rummors suggesting that the Acropolis Rally was dropped in favour of Poland.

I know, but I hope it does not happen. WRC looses more and more of its value by taking this route to turn its back on the classic events

[rallyfun]

I know, but I hope it does not happen. WRC looses more and more of its value by taking this route to turn its back on the classic events

I guess you don't know this but Rally Poland is second oldest rally in Europe after Monte Carlo. So talking about classic events it deserve its place in WRC as well as Corsica or Acropolis.

[tommeke_B]

I guess you don't know this but Rally Poland is second oldest rally in Europe after Monte Carlo. So talking about classic events it deserve its place in WRC as well as Corsica or Acropolis.
I guess you don't know that only the name Rally Poland / Rajd Polski is the second oldest "Rally name" in Europe after Monte Carlo... ;) It used to be a tarmac event, maybe some Polish member can confirm and specify (where the Original Rajd Polski was, and since when it has changed)? :) Still the event deserves a place on the calendar IMO.

[wrc1600]

I guess you don't know that only the name Rally Poland / Rajd Polski is the second oldest "Rally name" in Europe after Monte Carlo... ;) It used to be a tarmac event, maybe some Polish member can confirm and specify (where the Original Rajd Polski was, and since when it has changed)? :) Still the event deserves a place on the calendar IMO.

Yes it is a second oldest rally in Europe. It used go through different areas of Poland and different surface. The same story as with many other iconic rallies e.g San Remo, Catalunya, Portugal etc. The only reason it's on gravel now is because FIA wanted it that way to be in WRC calendar.

[NxOxT]

I know, but I hope it does not happen. WRC looses more and more of its value by taking this route to turn its back on the classic events

The WRC will lose far more if it keeps events like acropolis in the calendar just because of the name...

Rally poland and polish people are great rally supporters and deserve a round, plus they are a huge market... while Greece is a dying nation of nobodies... shall i remind you the 2004 fiasco where the majority of the greek crews just entered the super special in the stadium just to get sponsorship exposure and retired afterwards ?? why trust a rally in a nation of crooks ?? the world moves forward...you either jump on board or stay in the cellar with the rats...simple as that.

[scn]

The WRC will lose far more if it keeps events like acropolis in the calendar just because of the name...

Rally poland and polish people are great rally supporters and deserve a round, plus they are a huge market... while Greece is a dying nation of nobodies... shall i remind you the 2004 fiasco where the majority of the greek crews just entered the super special in the stadium just to get sponsorship exposure and retired afterwards ?? why trust a rally in a nation of crooks ?? the world moves forward...you either jump on board or stay in the cellar with the rats...simple as that.
Your language shows your cultural level. I invite you to Greece to see this nation of crooks. Until you accept the invitation, end of discussion.

[Barreis]

Well, NOT is Greek...

[tommeke_B]

Your language shows your cultural level. I invite you to Greece to see this nation of crooks. Until you accept the invitation, end of discussion.

You must be new here... :D

[makinen_fan]

The WRC will lose far more if it keeps events like acropolis in the calendar just because of the name...

Rally poland and polish people are great rally supporters and deserve a round, plus they are a huge market... while Greece is a dying nation of nobodies... shall i remind you the 2004 fiasco where the majority of the greek crews just entered the super special in the stadium just to get sponsorship exposure and retired afterwards ?? why trust a rally in a nation of crooks ?? the world moves forward...you either jump on board or stay in the cellar with the rats...simple as that.


I really like your views on your (and my) nation :p The sad thing it is true though

Anyway, I cannot understand why you are not reluctant to see the Acropolis leave the calendar. At least for an average spectator it produces nice TV action and images and provides something different to the calendar.

Maybe because you leave here in the UK now and you don't get to watch it, so it does not matter for you? ;)

[scn]

I totally agree with you.No much things can be said except from the fact that the major problem for our rally is the lack of resources in order to raise the appropriate amount of money to pay the fee for being our rally part of the calendar.This is i believe is the main reason and not fia temper to punish our rally for the money we owe them.
1.2 million for three years is crazy even for a state without financial probems.of course the fact that we owe them money is not an asset to our sleeve.
Both reasons are important, and of course they have nothing to do with the quality of the rally which is still one of the best, despite the vicious lies few ignorant spread.
However, the fee can be paid, believe it or not. Regarding the debt, nobody accepts to pay for it, as it was not created because the former organizer organized Acropolis, but because it was also the FIA representative in Greece. This debt will not be paid, simply because this former organizer owes 11 million to banks and Greek state. FIA will never get its money and they have every right to be angry.
In fact, I am also angry about it because this debt has to do with MY money, as a rally driver and co-driver, that I have paid to this FIA representative all these years. And, to be honest, I cannot believe that FIA didn't know what its representative did.

[scn]

Well, NOT is Greek...
I am not surprised. It is not uncommon in Greece to have enemies of the nation inside it. However, I am not a crook and if he regards himself a crook he can speak only for himself.

[NxOxT]

I just want to see events and countries that truly deserve rounds to get them...

i have only missed 2 acropolis rallies since 1997... i was a huge supporter until 2005 when they moved the event to the capital with the SOLE reason to financially feast on the success of the previous years... those dogs got what they deserved in the end... now its tears and pain for them and for me as well... but at least i have the courtesy to blame ourselves instead of the "bad europeans who only think about the money".

[nafpaktos]

scn as you are a new member i must inform you that NOT is the master of making provocative declarations about everything.He was banned and now his new name is NxOxT.He is so popular here about the things he says that a topic was made for him(where is NOT?) when he was banned.

[scn]

but at least i have the courtesy to blame ourselves instead of the "bad europeans who only think about the money".
Read what I wrote just above on 18:59. I am not blaming FIA. In fact, I am also blaming ourselves, as we never did anything to control this bloody former FIA representative that has done all this damage. These people were committing the crime, the rest of us just watched and did nothing (with very few exceptions).

P.S. Acropolis is one of the best rallies and stop saying bull**** just because you are angry with Mr Despotopoulos and the rest of the company. If you want, go and kick his ass. Acropolis does not deserve to get a bad name.

[NxOxT]

These people were committing the crime, the rest of us just watched and did nothing (with very few exceptions).

Then you have no excuse to ask for the acropolis to stay... good riddance i say for this sorry excuse of an event.

“All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing...”
― Edmund Burke (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/17142.Edmund_Burke)

[AndyRAC]

Yes it is a second oldest rally in Europe. It used go through different areas of Poland and different surface. The same story as with many other iconic rallies e.g San Remo, Catalunya, Portugal etc. The only reason it's on gravel now is because FIA wanted it that way to be in WRC calendar.

Ah, yet another event that has 'sold out'. The FiA strikes again......

However, one must wish them luck - and hope for their sake that it is a success.

[scn]

Then you have no excuse to ask for the acropolis to stay... good riddance i say for this sorry excuse of an event.

“All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing...”
― Edmund Burke (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/17142.Edmund_Burke)

Read my PS above. Your target should be the individuals, not the rally.

[tfp]

Read what I wrote just above on 18:59. I am not blaming FIA. In fact, I am also blaming ourselves, as we never did anything to control this bloody former FIA representative that has done all this damage. These people were committing the crime, the rest of us just watched and did nothing (with very few exceptions).

P.S. Acropolis is one of the best rallies and stop saying bull**** just because you are angry with Mr Despotopoulos and the rest of the company. If you want, go and kick his ass. Acropolis does not deserve to get a bad name.

Financially it would be better for WRC to move on and focus on the more demanding countries, where the exposure actually matters.

For us viewers though, it would be a great shame to lose what's always been known as "the toughest rally on the calendar".

I still like watching Mikkos save of the century onboard in his last year at ford :)

[NxOxT]

I still like watching Mikkos save of the century onboard in his last year at ford :)

LOLzz... you must watch more rallies then....

[WRCfan]

Ahhh it's good to have you back NOT. The forum hasn't been the same!

[garais22]

Ott Tanak: I have some talks with WRC teams (http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/autosports-pasaule/2487-tanaks-esam-veikusi-parrunas-ar-dazam-wrc-komandam/)

[Kielder]

I believe it wasn't commented here that WRC Italy may move in 2014 from Sardinia to Veneto & Verona. It is not clear whether the event will be on gravel or on asphalt. Let's see if Sardinia resists again or not.

[tommeke_B]

I believe it wasn't commented here that WRC Italy may move in 2014 from Sardinia to Veneto & Verona. It is not clear whether the event will be on gravel or on asphalt. Let's see if Sardinia resists again or not.
Any real source? Other than a few crazy Italians who post on forums and mainly facebook? :p I hope the event stays in Sardinia, it's great as it is. Only the 2-day format of this year is too short IMO. Also for the local economy it would be better to spread the rally over more days (has been done in the past in different events/championships).

[focus206]

I believe it wasn't commented here that WRC Italy may move in 2014 from Sardinia to Veneto & Verona. It is not clear whether the event will be on gravel or on asphalt. Let's see if Sardinia resists again or not.
not here, I wrote it in the calendar topic, I think. Of course just rumors by now, and there are rumors every year about a change of location of the Italian round. If it moves to the North East, it would most probably be on asphalt, unless FIA or whoever wants to keep the Italian round on gravel. In my opinion though, nothing will change and it'll stay in Sardinia as usual...

[Kielder]

Any real source? Other than a few crazy Italians who post on forums and mainly facebook? :p I hope the event stays in Sardinia, it's great as it is. Only the 2-day format of this year is too short IMO. Also for the local economy it would be better to spread the rally over more days (has been done in the past in different events/championships).

The information has been around for a while. Now it is published on Autohebdo, for example.

P.S. You have to recognise that those crazy fans are creative :) :

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/1004680_150163015191721_2080473098_n.jpg

[Kielder]

Any real source? Other than a few crazy Italians who post on forums and mainly facebook? :p I hope the event stays in Sardinia, it's great as it is. Only the 2-day format of this year is too short IMO. Also for the local economy it would be better to spread the rally over more days (has been done in the past in different events/championships).

The information has been around for a while, and now it is published on Autohebdo, for example.

P.S. You have to recognise that those crazy fans are creative :) :

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/1004680_150163015191721_2080473098_n.jpg

[Kielder]

Official trailer for Mikkelsen's short documentary about his (short) career: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wfVbAwL7eI&feature=youtu.be

[nafpaktos]

Until now i have never been impressed by mads performance-speed.To my mind he is just a mediocre driver.

I can`t really understand why I`m bothering with this....But, mediocre driver??? Mads Østberg??? If I should rate your post, it would be s strong candidate for a "Joke of the Year"-award!
I will however not bother to discuss your arguments, it will just be useless...

A big thanks to mads for proving what i was a saying(with his performance throughout 2013) and please dont bother to discuss my arguments.If you have any other fast driver as mads please tell me to bet on him. :laugh:

[Rallyper]

Until now i have never been impressed by mads performance-speed.To my mind he is just a mediocre driver.

I can`t really understand why I`m bothering with this....But, mediocre driver??? Mads Østberg??? If I should rate your post, it would be s strong candidate for a "Joke of the Year"-award!
I will however not bother to discuss your arguments, it will just be useless...

A big thanks to mads for proving what i was a saying(with his performance throughout 2013) and please dont bother to discuss my arguments.If you have any other fast driver as mads please tell me to bet on him. :laugh:

OK, then. We have a bunch of mediocre drivers through out the whole field, except from Seb2. Why are you interested in the first place. Please go to the sport with elitesportesmen all over.

To be honest I fully agree with Iskald in his judgement of your quote. You don´t know a thing about the sport when you´re saying that MAds is mediocre...

[NxOxT]

Osteberg started the season ok but then Neuville overshadowed him...he is not mediocre, he is a solid driver but he seems to be quite stationary with his progress... he is not going to be champion ever but i think he could be a target for a manufacturer in the future.

[Andre Oliveira]

Ostberg has many technical issues early this season.

[nafpaktos]

@rallyper
Of course i know nothing about the sport i admit it.Thats why im here to give me some insight.Since mads is not a mediocre driver can you tell me some mediocre drivers? prokop?al attiya?novikov?ok then ,if these drivers are for you mediocre then mads is not mediocre.you put my friend the bar of comparison too low thats why you say he is not mediocre.lets assume that ogier wasnt running in the wrc this moment,how would you label mads?as a top driver?if mads with that results is not a mediocre driver what results would you like to see to label him mediocre driver?please dont forget that he is an experienced pilot and not a rookie.imagine mads running 2002 or 2003 can imagine the results?he wouldnt be able to drive even as third driver for a top team.the fact that at this era there are not a lot of top drivers does not make him something better than a mediocre driver.I believe the problem is that we have rate the drivers by a different way and of course the fact that im irrelevant(please dont remind me that im irrelevant im doing serious efforts to be relevant).

[Rallyper]

By being more nuanced in your quotes you might not be misunderstood anymore. The word mediocre is not a propriate word when comparing Mads to other drivers in WRC.

[A FONDO]

Mads doesn't have the "thing" in the head (or the heart) needed to be a winner. So many years he was slowly cruising, "improving the pacenotes for next year" (or the year two years after next year) that now when he has to win he doesnt know what to do and bins it (Portugal is the first example that comes to mind). So mediocre is an appropriate word.

[Rallyper]

Mads doesn't have the "thing" in the head (or the heart) needed to be a winner. So many years he was slowly cruising, "improving the pacenotes for next year" (or the year two years after next year) that now when he has to win he doesnt know what to do and bins it (Portugal is the first example that comes to mind). So mediocre is an appropriate word.

Disagree. ( Like Iskald I say I wouldn´t even response to your quote, but I´ll do)

Mads is not an mediocre driver in WRC. Being on podium and top three on stages isn´t what an mediocre driver is able to do. However I agree that Mads hasn´t taken the step forward this year as he did last year.

But mediocre - no.

[Franky]

But mediocre - no.

But what classification do you propose then?

[makinen_fan]

But mediocre - no.

But what classification do you propose then?

Well Ostberg is not a top driver, so mediocre is appropriate depending on how you see the likes of Prokop, Nasser etc. If you think these are mediocre drivers and not gentlemen that like to spend millions in their hobby, then yes Mads is a top driver. But sorry he is not in the class of JML, Thierry, and Mikko (with a bit of question mark for him). Clearly Seb 1+2 are in a class of their own.

[skarderud]

Well, Mads, meeke and jml is sameish, both fast and crash. Jml is in a better car tought. Seb 1&2 is in another league, neuville somewhere in between. But its lots of things that happens behind the curtains we will never know.

[miniwintz]

It's a bit of a bold statement to say that the VW is a better car. When Loeb was winning, people said the Citroën was the best, now with Ogier people go the same with VW.

In this case, Jari Matti has clearly lost some of his talent considering how much better he was performing on a supposedly inferior car...

[bluuford]

I belive that Wilson has a great opportunity to get new contract with Ford for the next years. He has rapidly growing talent in his team, he has good and bold sponsor (Qatar), pretty good car and growing sales in R5 market. It would be great to have Ford support back and continious fight in WRC

[Eli]

let's hope ford will get back to the top level as soon as possible, and also other manufacturers...

[Mirek]

It's a bit of a bold statement to say that the VW is a better car. When Loeb was winning, people said the Citroën was the best, now with Ogier people go the same with VW.

+1 Moreover Loeb still shows he can win with the "underdog". He won 2 of 3 events he took part in this year.

[Rallyper]

But mediocre - no.

But what classification do you propose then?

Mediocre to me is a driver not able to fight in the top. Seb 1 & 2 is topdrivers. Neuville still not there but have improved. (let´s wait for his first crash - then we´ll see how his speed progresses) I would say Mikko is same level as well.
Then we have the group of drivers shining sometimes and doing faults most of the time: JML, Evgeni, Mads, Meeke, (Mikkelsen only speedwise) etz.

Still not mediocre drivers, would you say?

Mediocre drivers in WRC to me is Nasser, Prokop, Qassimi, Hanninen, Atko, Ketomaa etz.

[Rallyper]

[quote="miniwintz"]It's a bit of a bold statement to say that the VW is a better car. When Loeb was winning, people said the Citroën was the best, now with Ogier people go the same with VW. quote]

We´ll get the right answer after France. I do think VW Polo WRC -13 is a better car than Citroen -13. However Citroen -11, -12 was best car at that time (no, Polo on the stage at that time)

[Eli]

as you said we'll get that answer in Alsace-will be very intersting...

[miniwintz]

IMO Loeb will have difficulties to keep up with his rival, but not necessarily because the Citroën is or isn't inferior but because he's been on holidays for 6 months...

Whatever happens, I think skill of the drivers is much more prevalent than performance of the car in the final classification. Differences between the cars must be incredibly small.

[gorganl2000]

It's a bit of a bold statement to say that the VW is a better car. When Loeb was winning, people said the Citroën was the best, now with Ogier people go the same with VW.

+1 Moreover Loeb still shows he can win with the "underdog". He won 2 of 3 events he took part in this year.

this is the part the has me wondering
at present, some people say VW is best car as the Seb O/VW combination is working very well (maybe it is the best car, but i don't know for sure). However, we have JML in the same car and he seems to be on the same level as the rest of drivers more or less.

as said above, the same thing was said of Seb L/Citroen combination in the past

yet as mirek pointed out, Seb L was able to win 2 out of 3 rounds in the citroen, and challenge very strongly in sweden when he came second (not really his preferred event).
Seb L and Seb O seem to compete very closely wherever and what ever they drive---always pushing each other

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/09/16/citroen-team-veraendert-sein-gesicht/index.html)

[skarderud]

I think its quite "easy"! Seb 1&2 has the abillity to get into the car, get the most of it. They can explain and understand the car better than the rest, and can explain the team around what they wan't. The whole package is best. And they have both the ekstra speed they can use that the others ses not to have. Neuville has something going on, some of the others get some grips sometimes. Jml probably struggle to get the fealing he needs, same with Mads, mikko and dani. And they probably fails to explain what they miss also.

[gorganl2000]

IMO Loeb will have difficulties to keep up with his rival, but not necessarily because the Citroën is or isn't inferior but because he's been on holidays for 6 months...

Whatever happens, I think skill of the drivers is much more prevalent than performance of the car in the final classification. Differences between the cars must be incredibly small.

possibly road position as well will affect Seb L

[Negaiss]

After long time browseing forum I've decided to post some of my thougts...

I,ve always liked drivers who are capable of winning more than a one stage. As I am not team leader and I dont care about team result I always rate drivers of they capability to deliver true speed in stage. These drivers are for WRC and not simple point scorers. If driver can win stages that shows, that he has talent, has no fear, has natural god given feel of the limit. I think these drivers have to be chosen for WRC, because sooner or later they will deliver and WRC would be interesting to watch.

Who of you did not like Battle of sebs in Argentina 2013 ?? It was obwious, that Super Ogier was watching Loeb's splits and as soon as he saw that Loeb in on incredible pace in stage 6 or 7 (nor remember correctly) Ogier went off.

I would rather see WRC full of actually fast drivers who try to impress, but crash out in a big fight.

Thats why I dont like that Tanak is without a drive, that Meeke is (and 90% will bee) without a drive.

Some other drivers simply will never win - Wilson, Prokop, Al Quassimi, Nasser e.c

I think there is big potential for Novikov an this pressure no to crash is killig his career. They should allow him to go for it full speed an results would follow. Same for tanak. believe me, I've seen Tanak in stages in Latvia then he was a boy an his talent was visible. He drove his Golf II like it was a WRC and crashed everyone in time tables in his class.

[Rallyper]

After long time browseing forum I've decided to post some of my thougts...

I,ve always liked drivers who are capable of winning more than a one stage. As I am not team leader and I dont care about team result I always rate drivers of they capability to deliver true speed in stage. These drivers are for WRC and not simple point scorers. If driver can win stages that shows, that he has talent, has no fear, has natural god given feel of the limit. I think these drivers have to be chosen for WRC, because sooner or later they will deliver and WRC would be interesting to watch.

Who of you did not like Battle of sebs in Argentina 2013 ?? It was obwious, that Super Ogier was watching Loeb's splits and as soon as he saw that Loeb in on incredible pace in stage 6 or 7 (nor remember correctly) Ogier went off.

I would rather see WRC full of actually fast drivers who try to impress, but crash out in a big fight.

Thats why I dont like that Tanak is without a drive, that Meeke is (and 90% will bee) without a drive.

Some other drivers simply will never win - Wilson, Prokop, Al Quassimi, Nasser e.c

I think there is big potential for Novikov an this pressure no to crash is killig his career. They should allow him to go for it full speed an results would follow. Same for tanak. believe me, I've seen Tanak in stages in Latvia then he was a boy an his talent was visible. He drove his Golf II like it was a WRC and crashed everyone in time tables in his class.

++++1000

[NxOxT]

After long time browseing forum I've decided to post some of my thougts...

I,ve always liked drivers who are capable of winning more than a one stage. As I am not team leader and I dont care about team result I always rate drivers of they capability to deliver true speed in stage. These drivers are for WRC and not simple point scorers. If driver can win stages that shows, that he has talent, has no fear, has natural god given feel of the limit. I think these drivers have to be chosen for WRC, because sooner or later they will deliver and WRC would be interesting to watch.

Who of you did not like Battle of sebs in Argentina 2013 ?? It was obwious, that Super Ogier was watching Loeb's splits and as soon as he saw that Loeb in on incredible pace in stage 6 or 7 (nor remember correctly) Ogier went off.

I would rather see WRC full of actually fast drivers who try to impress, but crash out in a big fight.

Thats why I dont like that Tanak is without a drive, that Meeke is (and 90% will bee) without a drive.

Some other drivers simply will never win - Wilson, Prokop, Al Quassimi, Nasser e.c

I think there is big potential for Novikov an this pressure no to crash is killig his career. They should allow him to go for it full speed an results would follow. Same for tanak. believe me, I've seen Tanak in stages in Latvia then he was a boy an his talent was visible. He drove his Golf II like it was a WRC and crashed everyone in time tables in his class.

very nice, i do not think anyone disagrees with you ...

are you willing to pay the bills for the wrecked cars these drivers need in order to learn ? because the teams are not willing to...

[bluuford]

NOT, you have rised very good point here. Yes, actually spectators are willing to pay more to see extremely spectacular drivers and those who crash sometimes as well.Maybe team bosses are too much thinking about the end result of the season? How much customer cares about the fact that Citroen is multiple WRChampion? How much publisity it gives for the team when there is a big fight between couple of drivers and one goes off?How many so called "clicks" the one who goes off the road gets? and how many gets the one who wins? Maybe teams are not realizing the reality? I learnd in my economy lesson that to be a good salesman you need to know what your customers are expecting from you? Are we expecting titles? are we expecting very spectacular footages, pictures and sometimes some crashes. Be honest with yourself and think what average Joe expects?

[Doon]

Exactly, every team boss wants a Loeb, instant speed, no crashes! I would also say Ogier, but he binned it a fair bit in the first season or so, difference is that Ogier had backing from FFSA and Citroen had more money to spend at the time. There is no doubt that Meeke could one day challenge Ogier, but it wont happen now.

[Mirek]

There is no doubt that Meeke could one day challenge Ogier, but it wont happen now.

Really? I do have the doubts and I'm sure I'm not alone. If it was like that there would be at least ten drivers challenging Ogier but sadly there are none in reality. Your assumption that some level can be reached by anybody after enough time/crashes spent is wrong. If it was true Khalid Al Quassimi or Nasser Al Attiyah would be champions now because their budget is unlimited and they can crash every single rally three times. Have You realized that Ogier did only 3 seasons in small cars and only one of them international before stepping in WRC car on WRC stages? Some try for ten years without success, some just have some more skills.

[NxOxT]

NOT, you have rised very good point here. Yes, actually spectators are willing to pay more to see extremely spectacular drivers and those who crash sometimes as well.Maybe team bosses are too much thinking about the end result of the season? How much customer cares about the fact that Citroen is multiple WRChampion? How much publisity it gives for the team when there is a big fight between couple of drivers and one goes off?How many so called "clicks" the one who goes off the road gets? and how many gets the one who wins? Maybe teams are not realizing the reality? I learnd in my economy lesson that to be a good salesman you need to know what your customers are expecting from you? Are we expecting titles? are we expecting very spectacular footages, pictures and sometimes some crashes. Be honest with yourself and think what average Joe expects?

Team bosses are on a leash from the big daddys about spending... a few years back every useless driver and his grandmother had chances (from skiers to bicycling champion and even girls from F1). So now that the finances suffer they have to make safe choices... it is simple as that.

The average joe doesn't even know rallying exists, the average joe is a retard nobody... he just clicks on racing accidents to have fun... and the main reason teams do this is not because they love the sport it is because they want to sell cars and the average joe when he goes to buy a car he will never hear from the salesman that this model crashed 10 times he will hear that this model won 10 championships so the average retard can brag to his retard friends...

[NxOxT]

There is no doubt that Meeke could one day challenge Ogier, but it wont happen now.

No...

[A FONDO]

they want to sell cars and the average joe when he goes to buy a car he will never hear from the salesman that this model crashed 10 times he will hear that this model won 10 championships

thats it. wrc is not like f1 getting hundreds of millions per year for tv rights and other sorts of paid live feed. bluuford, what schools teach you is just "dry" theories. to be really successfull you dont need to blindly follow a rule said by some analyser but you must think on your own and find what can be applied where and how it can be modified to match the change conditions.

[Sulland]

But Citroen also need to look at future potential for victory, and Meeke has that. The two current ones have had their shot.

[NxOxT]

But Citroen also need to look at future potential for victory, and Meeke has that. The two current ones have had their shot.

the future of citroen is not in the WRC... They are not even a proper manufacturer any more.

Meeke has no potential without a huge investment... and i doubt anyone will invest in him

[MTA]

no more races for PG in AT Rallyteam:
http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/efter-k ... er-vmstart (http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/efter-kritiken-%E2%80%93-ingen-mer-vmstart)

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe Bernardo Sousa replaces him. Bernardo post something enigmatic on fb: and when i almost lost my hopes, i back in the fight

[jcatanho]

very nice, i do not think anyone disagrees with you ...

are you willing to pay the bills for the wrecked cars these drivers need in order to learn ? because the teams are not willing to...

One way to work around it would be to go back to the rule of having three nominated drivers per team and only the best two would score points like it happened until 2003. The costs for the teams would be the same. In fact Volkswagen already runs three cars, Citroen and Ford run also three or four cars. Another advantage of this rule would be to finish with the "ghost" teams. There is "Volkswagen Motorsport" and "Volkswagen Motorsport 2", there is "Citroen Total Abu Dhabi World Rally Team" and "Abu Dhabi Citroen Total World Rally Team" and finally "Qatar World Rally Team" and "Qatar M-Sport World Rally Team". Obviously the B teams are not there to fight for the title against the same factory A team. We have seen in previous seasons an A team driver that underperforms beeing replaced by a B team driver that is doing well or a B team driver that is in front of a A team driver to get a time penalty on purpose to allow the A team driver to finish in a better position. So the main reason for the existence of B teams is to help the A teams. Other purpose is to give opportunitties/experience to promising drivers and also to allow the gentlemen drivers that are sponsoring the team to have a seat. (The M-Sport team is an exception this season. I believe the ony reason why Neuville was not promoted to the A team is because since very early in the season, before Thierry began to shine so bright, Malcolm Wilson realized that his team had no chances to fight for the manufacturers title so when Thierry started to deliver podium finishes there was no point in promoting him to the A team.). Going back to my point if FIA would allow three, or even four, pilots to be nominated by each manufacturer (only the best two would score points) this would mean the same cost for manufacturers but it would allow room for some pilots that are fast but not very consistent. These pilots would have more chances to improve without so big pressure to deliver results. For instance this season Citroen could have Hirvonen, Sordo and Meeke. If Meeke crashes, no big problem, the other two would be there to assure the two finish positions. And as a bonus instead of having a championship with three A team and other three B teams that do not want to fight for the title we would have only three teams. Less teams but that would reflect the reality (this season there are only three manufacturers in WRC).

[urabus-denoS2000]

After long time browseing forum I've decided to post some of my thougts...

I,ve always liked drivers who are capable of winning more than a one stage. As I am not team leader and I dont care about team result I always rate drivers of they capability to deliver true speed in stage. These drivers are for WRC and not simple point scorers. If driver can win stages that shows, that he has talent, has no fear, has natural god given feel of the limit. I think these drivers have to be chosen for WRC, because sooner or later they will deliver and WRC would be interesting to watch.

Who of you did not like Battle of sebs in Argentina 2013 ?? It was obwious, that Super Ogier was watching Loeb's splits and as soon as he saw that Loeb in on incredible pace in stage 6 or 7 (nor remember correctly) Ogier went off.

I would rather see WRC full of actually fast drivers who try to impress, but crash out in a big fight.

Thats why I dont like that Tanak is without a drive, that Meeke is (and 90% will bee) without a drive.

Some other drivers simply will never win - Wilson, Prokop, Al Quassimi, Nasser e.c

I think there is big potential for Novikov an this pressure no to crash is killig his career. They should allow him to go for it full speed an results would follow. Same for tanak. believe me, I've seen Tanak in stages in Latvia then he was a boy an his talent was visible. He drove his Golf II like it was a WRC and crashed everyone in time tables in his class.


Very nice post. The only thing that matters is if the driver pay for his own mistakes, because the manufacturer can't/doesn't want to. That is how JML became a top-line rally driver that he is today, and that is why I think Novikov and Mads will have pretty bright carrers as well- the flash of speed is there, consistency will come after the 100th crash

[urabus-denoS2000]

very nice, i do not think anyone disagrees with you ...

are you willing to pay the bills for the wrecked cars these drivers need in order to learn ? because the teams are not willing to...

One way to work around it would be to go back to the rule of having three nominated drivers per team and only the best two would score points like it happened until 2003. The costs for the teams would be the same. In fact Volkswagen already runs three cars, Citroen and Ford run also three or four cars. Another advantage of this rule would be to finish with the "ghost" teams. There is "Volkswagen Motorsport" and "Volkswagen Motorsport 2", there is "Citroen Total Abu Dhabi World Rally Team" and "Abu Dhabi Citroen Total World Rally Team" and finally "Qatar World Rally Team" and "Qatar M-Sport World Rally Team". Obviously the B teams are not there to fight for the title against the same factory A team. We have seen in previous seasons an A team driver that underperforms beeing replaced by a B team driver that is doing well or a B team driver that is in front of a A team driver to get a time penalty on purpose to allow the A team driver to finish in a better position. So the main reason for the existence of B teams is to help the A teams. Other purpose is to give opportunitties/experience to promising drivers and also to allow the gentlemen drivers that are sponsoring the team to have a seat. (The M-Sport team is an exception this season. I believe the ony reason why Neuville was not promoted to the A team is because since very early in the season, before Thierry began to shine so bright, Malcolm Wilson realized that his team had no chances to fight for the manufacturers title so when Thierry started to deliver podium finishes there was no point in promoting him to the A team.). Going back to my point if FIA would allow three, or even four, pilots to be nominated by each manufacturer (only the best two would score points) this would mean the same cost for manufacturers but it would allow room for some pilots that are fast but not very consistent. These pilots would have more chances to improve without so big pressure to deliver results. For instance this season Citroen could have Hirvonen, Sordo and Meeke. If Meeke crashes, no big problem, the other two would be there to assure the two finish positions. And as a bonus instead of having a championship with three A team and other three B teams that do not want to fight for the title we would have only three teams. Less teams but that would reflect the reality (this season there are only three manufacturers in WRC).

And I think it's fairly obvious the manufacturers want this aswell- maybe just a case they don't have a rallying equivalent of FOCA to push their wishes to the FIA? This is an interesting question, I know nothing about the work of manufacturers but I'm sure somebody does.

[Mirek]

+1

I even liked the system used in best IRC years when team competition was replaced by manufacturer competition without any nomination of drivers (whoever drove a car of Peugeot could take points for Peugeot). It helped to create very competitive championship where manufacturer teams were supporting their bets privateers/importer teams because those could have delivered important points and basically the more cars of the make on start the higher chance for points and manufacturers were encouraged to spread competitive cars all over the rallying world. There were events with like 30 competitors in top class (in years when S2000 were in N4 class it was even over 50 cars in top class - for example Barum rally 2008 I think). Young drivers like Neuville or Mikkelsen benefited from this system a lot as both were driving for satellite importer teams. Now ERC replaced this system by team competition which in this lower budget series is nothing but a joke.

[jcatanho]

+1

I even liked the system used in best IRC years when team competition was replaced by manufacturer competition without any nomination of drivers (whoever drove a car of Peugeot could take points for Peugeot). It helped to create very competitive championship where manufacturer teams were supporting their bets privateers/importer teams because those could have delivered important points and basically the more cars of the make on start the higher chance for points and manufacturers were encouraged to spread competitive cars all over the rallying world. There were events with like 30 competitors in top class (in years when S2000 were in N4 class it was even over 50 cars in top class - for example Barum rally 2008 I think). Young drivers like Neuville or Mikkelsen benefited from this system a lot as both were driving for satellite importer teams. Now ERC replaced this system by team competition which in this lower budget series is nothing but a joke.

I agree with you, that would be the best solution. Whoever drives a car for a manufacturer can score points for that manufacturer like the IRC (or the WRC until 1992). But I was taking in consideration the costs. With only three or four nominated pilots per manufacturer the cost would be the same as now. With no limit for the number of pilots the costs could increase.

[makinen_fan]

I agree with you, that would be the best solution. Whoever drives a car for a manufacturer can score points for that manufacturer like the IRC (or the WRC until 1992). But I was taking in consideration the costs. With only three or four nominated pilots per manufacturer the cost would be the same as now. With no limit for the number of pilots the costs could increase.

But you can fill the majority of entry list with private cars of a certain manufacturer if they bring their cost down, like M-Sport does at the moment. Also you Citroen/VW that does not like to sell/rent cars to privateer teams for whatever reason and Hyundai that will not have enough cars ready to sell. So I don't think such a rule is/will ever be favourable by manufacturers. Although it will be good for us!

[tommeke_B]

If you make a championship per manufacturer, I'm sure that Citroën/Hyundai/VW will be more interested in renting/selling a few cars to privateers. It's some kind of Insurance to Always have 2 cars who score points. The impact of this could be even bigger if FIA dumps the Rally2 rule... :)

But maybe we are forgetting the privateers? For example Prokop/Kosciuszko, wouldn't it be nice if they can "win" something too?

[Mirek]

If you make a championship per manufacturer, I'm sure that Citroën/Hyundai/VW will be more interested in renting/selling a few cars to privateers. It's some kind of Insurance to Always have 2 cars who score points. The impact of this could be even bigger if FIA dumps the Rally2 rule... :)

But maybe we are forgetting the privateers? For example Prokop/Kosciuszko, wouldn't it be nice if they can "win" something too?


That's exactly the point. Rich manufacturers like to keep all the cream for themselves but that's why we have FIA which shall introduce rules to keep the championship healthy. However it's not working that well.

[Leon]

according to MN News acropolis out Poland in for 2014

also here: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/09/18/abschied-von-der-akropolis-rallye/index.html)

[Brother John]

according to MN News acropolis out Poland in for 2014

also here: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/09/18/abschied-von-der-akropolis-rallye/index.html)

I think this is normal due to the economy problems from EUROPE.....

[PLuto]

Yes, because Poland has more money than Greece. But for me is Rally Acropolis one of the classic events which should remain in calendar...

[Brother John]

Okay then send the organization quite a lot of money PLuto. ;-)

[PLuto]

Okay then send the organization quite a lot of money PLuto. ;-)

It is too late...

[Mirek]

Okay then send the organization quite a lot of money PLuto. ;-)

If PLuto had that money there would be Barum rally in WRC ;)

[PLuto]

If PLuto had that money there would be Barum rally in WRC ;)

I am not sure. I still see more potential in ERC...

[Barreis]

So Al-Quassimi desides who'll drive for citroen... :D
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109947

[sindroms]

Frederik Ahlin in "Rally Latvia" press conference announced that it will be his last rally on R2 car. He aims for 4wd drive in 2014 - ERC or WRC.

[bluuford]

Other news is that Lukyanuk (who won Gr N in Finland) is not going to have more starts in 2013 (in Latvia and Estonia), most probably. Sponsors left him:-(

[dimviii]

sponsor were asrt?

[rallyfun]

So Al-Quassimi desides who'll drive for citroen... :D
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109947
He pays, he pulls strings in Citroen... and this Meeke thing was his idea that might cost them manu title.

[NxOxT]

So Al-Quassimi desides who'll drive for citroen... :D
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109947
He pays, he pulls strings in Citroen... and this Meeke thing was his idea that might cost them manu title.

LOL they never had a chance for the manufacturer for a long time now... and that is why the brought meeke in.

[rallyfun]

So Al-Quassimi desides who'll drive for citroen... :D
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109947
He pays, he pulls strings in Citroen... and this Meeke thing was his idea that might cost them manu title.

LOL they never had a chance for the manufacturer for a long time now... and that is why the brought meeke in.
LOL 26 points behind VW after Germany and 4 rallies to go that is no chance

[makinen_fan]

Rally Australia plans for next year to Sunday in Sydney by flying everyone from Coffs harbour, a bit silly for me, as it turned out to be in the past in Argentina.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109970

[Eli]

Australia want a WRC round after 2015...bad news for NZ...

[Barreis]

So Al-Quassimi desides who'll drive for citroen... :D
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109947
He pays, he pulls strings in Citroen... and this Meeke thing was his idea that might cost them manu title.
Then it's semi professional team if sponsor is choosing the drivers...

[A FONDO]

He pays, he pulls strings in Citroen... and this Meeke thing was his idea that might cost them manu title.

LOL they never had a chance for the manufacturer for a long time now... and that is why the brought meeke in.
LOL 26 points behind VW after Germany and 4 rallies to go that is no chance
even if they were 26 points ahead they wouldn't be the main suspect for that title

[makinen_fan]

This is not directly wrc news, but since it involves one of the most well known companies providing wheels to team I thought it may be of interest. Compomotive has closed today and entered into administration. Sad to see this company go that provided some of the most iconic wheel designs in history. Do they serve any current wrc team?

http://www.expressandstar.com/business/ ... collapses/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/business/midlands-business/2013/09/19/24-lose-jobs-as-wolverhampton-motorsport-firm-collapses/)

[AMSS]

Frederik Ahlin in "Rally Latvia" press conference announced that it will be his last rally on R2 car. He aims for 4wd drive in 2014 - ERC or WRC.

This is one guy to look out for in the future, he`s extremely fast in an R2 car so will be interesting to se what he can do in 4wd.
He`s beaten Tidemand and all the finns in FRC in R2 class

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Hirvonen is driving 2014. Jouhki says that in Vauhdin Maailma 9/2013. Citroen and M-sport want talk about deal.

[Doon]

Hirvonen is driving 2014. Jouhki says that in Vauhdin Maailma 9/2013. Citroen and M-sport want talk about deal.

To be honest M-Sport would be a good place for Mikko, he had more fighting spirt there and the car suited him better it seems.

Neuville and Hirvonen would be a good team, and i'm sure they could trouble Citroen and possible VW if Neuville makes another step forward and Mikko goes back to his consistant ways. Neuville would be behind Ogier points wise, but Hirvonen could collect more than Jari Matti. Actually it would probably be the best M-Sport/Ford lineup since Gronholm and Hirvonen.

[urabus-denoS2000]

I think its not a matter of the DS3 not suiting him, as much as he works much better on setup when working with Loeb it seems...

[rallyfun]

LOL 26 points behind VW after Germany and 4 rallies to go that is no chance
even if they were 26 points ahead they wouldn't be the main suspect for that title[/quote]
we are talking only about chance, mathematical/theoretical etc.

[Toyoda]

Paddon driving Fiesta WRC as part of Msport Qatar for Spain, AWESOME NEWS!!

[6789]

Fantastic news for the Kiwi! Hopefully he can put in a good result and develop his career further

[bluuford]

The end of road for Novikov?

"Paddon’s keeping the goals relatively straightforward: first, he aims to finish the rally in order to gain experience. In addition, he aims to secure some top five stage times, mixing it up with some of the best drivers in the world, Sébastien Ogier, Mikko Hirvonen and Jari-Matti Latvala as well as fellow Qatar M-Sport drivers Mads Østberg and Thierry Neuville."

[A FONDO]

great, finally this talented and promising guy gets a chance. can't wait to see the times

[Mintexmemory]

The end of road for Novikov?

"Paddon’s keeping the goals relatively straightforward: first, he aims to finish the rally in order to gain experience. In addition, he aims to secure some top five stage times, mixing it up with some of the best drivers in the world, Sébastien Ogier, Mikko Hirvonen and Jari-Matti Latvala as well as fellow Qatar M-Sport drivers Mads Østberg and Thierry Neuville."


Not if Paddon can't find the cash for a full season. This is a trial but the money is still a pre-requisite. Still, in a similar car we will now be able to compare Paddon's performance against Tanak's from last year assuming the repeated tarmac stages are dry. I expect him to go well as he has been to Catalunya before and is comfortable on gravel and tarmac. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

[tommeke_B]

@Mintexmemory, no, you can't compare the pace to Tanak last year. It's unfair to compare the pace of someone who is driving a WRC car for the first time to someone who already did 10 (?) events with a WRC car...

[makinen_fan]

Very happy for him, hopefully a good performance will open more doors to him, maybe Hyundai or Citroen if he doesn't have the money to pay Mr Wilson for a season next year.
I hope he can also extend the deal to include RallyGB, it will be good to see him there as well, even though last year I was not so impressed by his driving there.
I agree with Tom on comparing him with Tanak, by this point he had a lot of experience with WRC cars where Hayden has none.

[CyborgVR4]

Our local TV news mentioned Paddon's drive as being in a 5th M-Sport car.
Great news, well done and good luck Hayden.

[dimviii]

nice news!

[Mintexmemory]

@Mintexmemory, no, you can't compare the pace to Tanak last year. It's unfair to compare the pace of someone who is driving a WRC car for the first time to someone who already did 10 (?) events with a WRC car...
You can if he proves to be immediately more competitive ;) I'm sure someone will say you can't compare a highly motivated Paddon in 2013 against the 'lost it' Tanak that turned up in Spain 2012. (And yes I do remember OT running in 4th place before he retired but some way off pace)

[NxOxT]

@Mintexmemory, no, you can't compare the pace to Tanak last year. It's unfair to compare the pace of someone who is driving a WRC car for the first time to someone who already did 10 (?) events with a WRC car...
You can if he proves to be immediately more competitive ;) I'm sure someone will say you can't compare a highly motivated Paddon in 2013 against the 'lost it' Tanak that turned up in Spain 2012. (And yes I do remember OT running in 4th place before he retired but some way off pace)

you can compare anything and anyone if you like...

the thing is none will take you seriously...

[Mintexmemory]

There speaks a master in the art ;)

[dimviii]

so Malcolm prepares for Neuvilles exit?

[A FONDO]

so Malcolm prepares for Neuvilles exit?
frustration is dangerous. it makes people think weird things.

[dimviii]

so Malcolm prepares for Neuvilles exit?
frustration is dangerous. it makes people think weird things.

Greekphobia?

[Doon]

so Malcolm prepares for Neuvilles exit?

Doubt it. Paddon has probably just raised some cash.

[tommeke_B]

so Malcolm prepares for Neuvilles exit?
Did you type the wrong name? Did you mean Ostbergs exit? :)

[dimviii]

so Malcolm prepares for Neuvilles exit?
Did you type the wrong name? Did you mean Ostbergs exit? :)

imho all 3 names i could type(Neuville,Novikov,Ostberg)

[dimviii]

so Malcolm prepares for Neuvilles exit?

Doubt it. Paddon has probably just raised some cash.

are you sure?
“Ultimately we are trying to market ourselves for 2014 and this amazing opportunity to compete in a Fiesta RS WRC with such a respected team as M-Sport gives us that chance.”

http://www.wrc.com/news/paddon-gets-wrc ... ?fid=19113 (http://www.wrc.com/news/paddon-gets-wrc-drive-in-spain/?fid=19113)


edit
“After some discussions, we were offered this great opportunity and it’s amazing to finally get our chance in a WRC car. - See more at: http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/in ... N0RFU.dpuf (http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8052&Itemid=2#sthash.UTqN0RFU.dpuf)

[A FONDO]

stop with your fobofilia.

Paddon's public statements are always a little strange (for us europeans). perhaps he is a bit too polite and just wants to thank them for renting him a car, which is not very easy with other teams.

about investment from Malcolm-sport, remember kuipers was also given a brown car ;) also Paddon gave his "rights" to a management company with shareholders (do I need to explain this?).

[dimviii]

stop with your fobofilia.
.
everybody here, knows who has fobofilia,and what kind of fobofilia. ;)

[Rallyper]

For me it would be surprising if Neuville goes to Citroen or rather, leaves M-Sport. Neuveille is very confident in the car and it would be a hazard for him to change team for 2014.

I do believe one of the other two guys will leave for Citroen. One will remain at M-Sport. Let´s wait and see.

[Barreis]

Wrc expert Capito...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110138

[bluuford]

Yeah, good when we have more compeditive cars:-) I am happy!
Yes it is hard to compare. Tänak won two stages in Sapin, was leading the rally after 34km of stages and he was fighting for thrid against Mikko and Mads (was only around one minute behind leader Loeb) when he crashed out. Moreover, he had probably the best weather forecast for the stages ;-)

[Carlo]

"also Paddon gave his "rights" to a management company with shareholders (do I need to explain this?)."

Just to assist you, the shareholders are primarily made up of "mum & dad type" investors who wish to see a young New Zealander with talent get an opportunity to succeed on the world stage.

A number of the shareholders are syndicates made up of group friends who between them have raised the required funds to purchase a share.

The Directors are his father and two businessmen well respected within the local community


Perhaps those on this forum who wish him well could get together, form a syndicate and also purchase a share.

[tommeke_B]

@Dimviii, I have a certain fear of quotes of people on my ignore list, and it occurs too much with the new quoting system. Can you give my phobia a name? :p

[dimviii]

quotephobia :D

[makinen_fan]

Another 'promising star', Al-Kuwari, with a Fiesta WRC deals for Spain,
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news ... -for-spain (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/1419-al-kuwari-secures-wrc-drive-for-spain)

[NxOxT]

Another 'promising star', Al-Kuwari, with a Fiesta WRC deals for Spain,
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news ... -for-spain (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/1419-al-kuwari-secures-wrc-drive-for-spain)

LOL

[ThomasS]

Seems like Paddons drive is at least partially, if not substantially , paid for by M-Sport. Full factory colours and some room for his sponsor VINZ.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motorsport/ne ... d=11131557 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motorsport/news/article.cfm?c_id=66&objectid=11131557)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Another 'promising star', Al-Kuwari, with a Fiesta WRC deals for Spain,
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news ... -for-spain (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/1419-al-kuwari-secures-wrc-drive-for-spain)

LOL

Why is it a LoL?

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[NxOxT]

i ment LoooooooooL

[tfp]

quotephobia :D

We need the like button back :D

I had a thought before, how long did it take Latvala to take a second place in the driver standings? 2011? And how long has it taken Neuville....

[stefanvv]

I had a thought before, how long did it take Latvala to take a second place in the driver standings? 2011? And how long has it taken Neuville....
Season is not over yet, though he has big chances.

[A FONDO]

well ar least he is very close to it and it is solely in his hands to keep the lead. 2011 latvala became second by a miracle

[A FONDO]

no it was 2010 - the last rally with the bigger cars. hirvonen slowed down and ogier crashed there and spain

[NxOxT]

Being second in the championship means nothing when it comes to championship material... Hirvonen is a nice example for that.

[garais22]

Ketomaa maybee will start in Wales WRC and next season maybe 6 or 7 rounds in WRC2
http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/rallijs/ ... rauks-wrc/ (http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/rallijs/2597-rallija-latvija-zvaigzne-ketoma-iespejams-nakamgad-brauks-wrc/)

[WUff1]

Ostberg is complaining about having to pay for driving :rolleyes:

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/10/08/oestberg-verkehrte-welt-im-servicepark/index.html)

In English:
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... index.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2013%2F10%2F08%2Foestberg-verkehrte-welt-im-servicepark%2Findex.html)

[amilk]

Ostberg needs to put something to the desk first after claim - not so much in this year from him
I'm sure Neuville will not pay in the next year for the seat even at M-Sport
For sure not helthy to use pay drivers but that's life today.

[A FONDO]

Ostberg needs to put something to the desk first after claim - not so much in this year from him
True. His performance was acceptable two years ago, but the level of competition has improved a lot since then. Next year Mikelsen will also begin beating him on regulat basis. Also, Mads doesnt pay all expenses, only part of them so he should be glad fot that he is not "full privateer".

[dimviii]

2014 fiesta wrc
http://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho ... 4541_n.jpg (http://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q77/s720x720/1376400_10151758039473952_773714541_n.jpg)

[dimviii]

r3 new clio?
http://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho ... 1434_n.jpg (http://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1391739_594058493985894_1707441434_n.jpg)

[PLuto]

2014 fiesta wrc
http://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho ... 4541_n.jpg (http://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q77/s720x720/1376400_10151758039473952_773714541_n.jpg)

I think it was only R5 with WRC wing for PR activities...

[skarderud]

r3 new clio?
http://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho ... 1434_n.jpg (http://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1391739_594058493985894_1707441434_n.jpg)

Heard some roumors they look at R5, can it posibly be anything more than roumors?

[makinen_fan]

r3 new clio?
http://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho ... 1434_n.jpg (http://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1391739_594058493985894_1707441434_n.jpg)

Heard some roumors they look at R5, can it posibly be anything more than roumors?


@Dupont_Ben
Not an R5 unfortunately. Let's say it will be able to compete in WRC3 and everywhere in Europe second half of next year.

[PLuto]

r3 new clio?
http://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho ... 1434_n.jpg (http://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1391739_594058493985894_1707441434_n.jpg)

Heard some roumors they look at R5, can it posibly be anything more than roumors?


@Dupont_Ben
Not an R5 unfortunately. Let's say it will be able to compete in WRC3 and everywhere in Europe second half of next year.

For sure they are primary working on R3T car. R5 will be next step...

[bennizw]

Rally Sweden to run from Thursday to Saturday next year.

[tommeke_B]

http://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/seba ... 6e85e21b80 (http://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/sebastien-loeb-au-depart-du-rallye-du-condroz-5256cd2e3570d36e85e21b80)

Not a WRC rally, but... Sébastien Loeb is going to drive Rallye du Condroz with a DS3 WRC, codriven by his wife Severine! Yves Matton will drive a Xsara WRC, codriven by Daniel Elena. The rally takes place next month (1-2-3 november), covering 265km SS, enough for 27 stages.

[Bartek]

http://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/sebastien-loeb-au-depart-du-rallye-du-condroz-5256cd2e3570d36e85e21b80

Not a WRC rally, but... Sébastien Loeb is going to drive Rallye du Condroz with a DS3 WRC, codriven by his wife Severine! Yves Matton will drive a Xsara WRC, codriven by Daniel Elena. The rally takes place next month (1-2-3 november), covering 265km SS, enough for 27 stages.

Ok, so now we are waiting for Ogier in Condroz :smokin:

[AndyRAC]

http://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/sebastien-loeb-au-depart-du-rallye-du-condroz-5256cd2e3570d36e85e21b80

Not a WRC rally, but... Sébastien Loeb is going to drive Rallye du Condroz with a DS3 WRC, codriven by his wife Severine! Yves Matton will drive a Xsara WRC, codriven by Daniel Elena. The rally takes place next month (1-2-3 november), covering 265km SS, enough for 27 stages.

Ok, so now we are waiting for Ogier in Condroz :smokin:

But not in a Polo WRC....... a 911.... ;)

[Koceens]

Rally guide 1 and itinerary is out for Rally Sweden 2014 - http://www.rallysweden.com/2013/10/rall ... licerad-3/ (http://www.rallysweden.com/2013/10/rally-guide-1-publicerad-3/)

Again nothing interesting, same stages as usual with only 1 new stage and no Sagen this year. I'm quite disappointed.

[Eli]

so it looks llike the driver's line up will be something like this:
Volkswagen: Ogier,Latvala,Mikkelsen
Citroen:,Neuville,Meeke(?) & Kubica for selected rounds
Qatar M-Sport(if they still have funds): Ostberg, Novikov,Nasser Al-Atyah
Hyundai:Hirvonen, Atkinson(?)
Sordo is missing for now because as it stands now (from what i saw in Citroen Driver Solitare topic) he has no drive for next season.

[AndyRAC]

Hirvonen & Atkinson - so in 2014 Hyundai will have the 2004/5 Subaru No 2's....???

I seriously hope not - no offence, but that's not really looking to the future is it. And tells you everything about the WRC.

[thuGG]

Colin Clark ?@voiceofrally
Seems that Robert Kubica is considering @WalesRallyGB. Question for me is why and which car? Could be WRC2 champ by then, so maybe WRC car?



WRC ?@OfficialWRC
Question marks for Wales @WalesRallyGB Kubica for a WRC Car? Mark Higgins R5 Fiesta? 2 great rides if so. Both could cause a big upset..


Also, M-Sport considers Kubica:
http://twitpic.com/dhacj4

[Eli]

Hirvonen & Atkinson - so in 2014 Hyundai will have the 2004/5 Subaru No 2's....???

I seriously hope not - no offence, but that's not really looking to the future is it. And tells you everything about the WRC.
it's just a speculation i made,it doesn't mean it's true.

[AMSS]

Everybody speculates Neuville to Citroen but I really don`t see the reason why he would be attracted to Citroen other than money, providing M-sport gets proper funding. The Fiesta seems to be on par with Citroen on any surface if not even better on some gravel events(like in Finland). Also the fact that Citroen is concentrating the efforts on circuit racing should make it less attractive I think, unless they already can say it will be Peugeot in the future and promise extensive testing etc. Which looking at PSA:s financial situation is doubtful.
VW is out of the question and Hyundai won`t probably be as competitive as VW in it`s first year. But we`ll see

[Juha_Koo]

I have always believed that Neuville's drive this season is basically funded by Nasser/Qatar. If Qatar stays onboard for next year too (AFAIK it will), I don't see any reason why Neuville would leave M-Sport.

[Mirek]

I would personally like Neuville to stay in Ford.

[Barreis]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110642
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110632

[dimviii]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110642
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110632

probably Kubica with full programm at Citroen for 2014...

[Andre Oliveira]

I would personally like Neuville to stay in Ford.

Me too, and think that Al-Attiyah will secure him.

[Jack4688`]

I would personally like Neuville to stay in Ford.

Me too, and think that Al-Attiyah will secure him.

I remember reading (in Motorsport News I think) that Al-Attiyah will only continue to sponsor M-Sport with the guarantee that Neuville stays. Or at least it's a key point to the Qatar backing remaining. It would also make sense that Neuville wouldn't stay if M-Sport loses the Qatar sponsorship (unless they can make up for it with another sponsorship deal).

[miniwintz]

So if Qatar backs off from M-Sport, they will just get back to being a rental company like they were in 2011? Isn't it somehow the case already with the talks during this half of the season about Östberg having to pay for his rallies?

[Rallyper]

M-Sport has been a rental company ever since Ford withdraw. The three team "mates" (Neuville, Ostberg, Novikov) are all rental customers in 2013, without any obligations to each other...

[noel157]

Neuville visiting a few places around Europe this week apparently.............

[HarriK]

If I understand right Tänak is planning to drive 7 races in wrc2 2014.
http://sport.postimees.ee/2442476/tanak ... b-kova-too (http://sport.postimees.ee/2442476/tanaku-mmile-aitamise-nimel-kaib-kova-too)

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... b-kova-too (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fi&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsport.postimees.ee%2F2442476%2Ftana ku-mmile-aitamise-nimel-kaib-kova-too)

[turves]

Colin Clark's twitter page states a French rally site is reporting the Neuville has visited Hyundai WRC HQ already this week.

[Mintexmemory]

Colin Clark's twitter page states a French rally site is reporting the Neuville has visited Hyundai WRC HQ already this week.
Not surprising as the guy is the hottest property around. It isn't hard to imagine that he has 4 offers on the table - VW as Team 2 leader, M-Sport with Nasser's cash, Hyundai - it would have to be undisputed No 1 to tempt him there I'd think; and finally (probably the least attractive) Citroen.
I'd like to see him in a Polo as that would be a great contest with the new WDC.

[miniwintz]

If I understand right Tänak is planning to drive 7 races in wrc2 2014.
http://sport.postimees.ee/2442476/tanak ... b-kova-too (http://sport.postimees.ee/2442476/tanaku-mmile-aitamise-nimel-kaib-kova-too)

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... b-kova-too (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fi&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsport.postimees.ee%2F2442476%2Ftana ku-mmile-aitamise-nimel-kaib-kova-too)
good :)

[turves]

Colin Clark's twitter page states a French rally site is reporting the Neuville has visited Hyundai WRC HQ already this week.
Not surprising as the guy is the hottest property around. It isn't hard to imagine that he has 4 offers on the table - VW as Team 2 leader, M-Sport with Nasser's cash, Hyundai - it would have to be undisputed No 1 to tempt him there I'd think; and finally (probably the least attractive) Citroen.
I'd like to see him in a Polo as that would be a great contest with the new WDC.

If Hyundai are serious contenders, he would do well to go there and build a team around him. Not sure quite what is happening with Citroen, but cant see him going to VW somehow. You're right though, he is the hottest property out there.

[Doon]

There have been a few drivers over the last few years who have jumped out of a quick Ford for a bigger pay cheque and their results have declined;

Duval - Citroen
Martin - Peugeot
Latvala - VW

I hope we don't add Neuville - Hyundai to that list.

[A FONDO]

VW said they will keep their three drivers for next year. Citroen are moving all their skilled engineers to the circuit project. Hyunday is a new team. Neuville will be the idiot of the century if he leave Ford.

[skarderud]

VW said they will keep their three drivers for next year. Citroen are moving all their skilled engineers to the circuit project. Hyunday is a new team. Neuville will be the idiot of the century if he leave Ford.

+1!

Its no other options if he want to give ogier a real fight, Citroën should be the option, but i fear theire focus is somewhere else...
If Qatar/Msport/neuville can give ogier/vw a real fight next year, it is very good for wrc's reputation.

[bluuford]

If I understand right Tänak is planning to drive 7 races in wrc2 2014.
http://sport.postimees.ee/2442476/tanak ... b-kova-too (http://sport.postimees.ee/2442476/tanaku-mmile-aitamise-nimel-kaib-kova-too)

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... b-kova-too (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fi&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsport.postimees.ee%2F2442476%2Ftana ku-mmile-aitamise-nimel-kaib-kova-too)

Yes, the work is going on. Two third of the season fundig is basically covered. Plan is to use R5 car, manufacturer is not sure yet. Some of the sponsorship comes outside Estonia.
Also Kruuda plans to start in WRC2 starting in Sweden.

[Duvel]

Does anybody know if Sardinia wil host next year's WRC rally again? There were some roumors about a move to San Remo for next year?
Hope it wil stil be Sardinia, been there twice, nice rally!

[Duvel]

Colin Clark's twitter page states a French rally site is reporting the Neuville has visited Hyundai WRC HQ already this week.
Not surprising as the guy is the hottest property around. It isn't hard to imagine that he has 4 offers on the table - VW as Team 2 leader, M-Sport with Nasser's cash, Hyundai - it would have to be undisputed No 1 to tempt him there I'd think; and finally (probably the least attractive) Citroen.
I'd like to see him in a Polo as that would be a great contest with the new WDC.

If Hyundai are serious contenders, he would do well to go there and build a team around him. Not sure quite what is happening with Citroen, but cant see him going to VW somehow. You're right though, he is the hottest property out there.

Hyundai does have the budget to grow into a serious contender. I do not like to here that they are now developing a car that wil be replaced in 2015 by an other model. First years as learnig, than go for the championship it seems.

So maybe best for Thierry to stay at Ford for at least one more year, hope for more good results and hopefully some wins (hoping to atract Ford to become Factory team again) and than see what 2015 brings. By than we might know what the plans of Ford, PSA group, are, and we will know what Hyundai is worth, and who knows maybe by than Toyota is back in buisines.

[Jack4688`]

Does anybody know if Sardinia wil host next year's WRC rally again? There were some roumors about a move to San Remo for next year?
Hope it wil stil be Sardinia, been there twice, nice rally!

Unlikely given the Italian round is in May/June again. If they switched it to Sanremo there would be a lot of reshuffling to do to fit it in October (any other time of the year is sacrilege) which would no doubt involve moving either Rallye de France or Rally de Catalunya into the spring/summer.

Personally I'd like to see Sanremo back as the Italian round of the WRC and Rally Mille Miglia taking Sanremo's place in ERC, but none of that fantasy is likely to happen any time soon :(

[dimviii]

https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 2908_n.jpg (https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/q71/s720x720/602400_581984811837312_880772908_n.jpg)

[focus206]

Does anybody know if Sardinia wil host next year's WRC rally again? There were some roumors about a move to San Remo for next year?
Hope it wil stil be Sardinia, been there twice, nice rally!
2014 Italian round is 100% confirmed to be in Sardinia.
And rumors about Sanremo? There were rumors about moving the rally to the North-East regions, Sanremo is not even in consideration for a WRC round since a long time, it won't come back any time soon, unless miracles. I guess there were rumors by fans, since it's still a very popular event. Every year in Italy there are rumors about moving location for the WRC round, between Sardinia, North-East, Tuscany and Sanremo, but it's almost always fan-talking.

[Co-driven]

Erechim Rally, in the south of Brazil, will probably be a candidate event in 2014. They have the best rally in the country and one of the best in the hole South America, I'd say the same level as the Rally Argentina event.
Paulo Nobre is a huge defender of the event, and rumours says that he is directly involved in this project. They've got the support of Minister of Sport of Brazil, and theres already a sports management company working to get things done.

[rage82]

From Colin Clark's twitter:
1. "More interesting news about Robert Kubica this morning. Rumour is he’s close to a deal with M-Sport for full season in WRC car in 2014".
2. "Hearing some very interesting news about who could partner Kubica at M-Sport next year. Kinda blows some of my other ideas outa the water".
So who can be that guy? - my guess is Hayden Paddon.

[bluuford]

Sordo:-)?

[amilk]

Paddon could be 3rd 4th driver but not 1st.
Kubica OK for 2nd but nor 1st yet
If not Neuville then no winning driver in the team next year
Next year a learning curve for Hunday they said so it's a lost year for Neuville if he go there.
At Citroen who know what will happen on midterm if 30% PSA shares goes to China.
So practically Neuville has not so much good choice for next year
If Msport already discussing with the drivers about 2014 then a financial background seems OK, means Nasser remains at the team (and Neuville)

[AMSS]

At least Timo Jouhki(Latvalas and Hirvonens manager if someone didn`t know...) said in Vauhdin Maailma magazine that M-sport already is clear for next year. But of course under what circumstances wasn`t mentioned. Also as someone already said here Hirvonen is in discussions with M-sport but can`t understand why they would want him unless he brings money..

[makinen_fan]

What do you mean 'is clear for next year'? They are not retaining any drivers?

[AMSS]

He wrote M-sport are clear as a team for the championship 2014, which presumably they have a budget in place, who will drive is a different thing..

[AMSS]

He wrote M-sport are clear as a team for the championship 2014, which means presumably they have a budget in place, who will drive is a different thing..

[dimviii]

unless he brings money..

he brings money from personal sponsors.

[noel157]

He wrote M-sport are clear as a team for the championship 2014, which means presumably they have a budget in place, who will drive is a different thing..

Or clear who is going to be in the team next year?

[skarderud]

He wrote M-sport are clear as a team for the championship 2014, which means presumably they have a budget in place, who will drive is a different thing..

Or clear who is going to be in the team next year?


If M-sport is clear for next year, then both budget and drivers is secured.
This summer MW said that they needed neuville to get funding fra Qatar. They also wanted østberg too continue, so this have to mean that neuville and Mads is in the team, and Qatar is main sponsor! This is good!

Neuville is at a trip around europe to see what the other teams has to offer, if you got an offer from the other team is smart to meet them and say: Sorry, i got a 1 yr deal, but maybe we can meet again in one yr? Smart and polite, and he is probly even hotter next year too;)

[makinen_fan]

Meeke talks about the rejection from Citroen:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport ... 63375.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motor-sport/kris-meeke-out-in-cold-after-citroen-axe-29663375.html)

[litifeta]

Mikko might be back at M Sport. Hyundai don't see the value there.

[Doon]

Mikko might be back at M Sport. Hyundai don't see the value there.

They probably don't. However I still feel Mikko has a place in the WRC. He is still the best No.2 driver out there despite having a rough season this year. In the last 8 years he's come 2nd four times, 3rd twice, and has had 2 seasons of poor results (including this one). That's not a bad record for a guy that everyone consistantly has digs at.

He's not going to be world champion, but he can bring loads of points for any team. I think being at Citroen has taken his fighting spirt away, he seemed much happier at Ford and I really hope he's in a Fiesta next year. Neuville would be able to scrap with Ogier, and Mikko can pick up the pieces, and on the odd occassion (Sweden, Finland, Greece, GB) can fight for wins. Perfect team.

[KAMV]

Sardegna is confirmed on the calendar 2014, but one week later! :mad:
My holyday at work was allready arranged...

[Duvel]

Job offer anyone?
Knowledge of WRC cars is needed though...

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/images/tmg/(Senior)%20Development%20Engineer%20-%20Rally%20Car%20Project.pdf

[MJW]

There was an article about Toyota and their return to WRC in Racecar Engineer a few months ago. Basically they have an engine in development, and the return is a few years away, it went as far as saying 'at the next technical regulations in 2016/17. Toyota eont come in under the existing rules, it may be me misreading things but it hinted at some form of new engine / hybrid.

[noel157]

Who writes the WRC Tweets?


WRC ?@OfficialWRC 7h
Paddon: ‘There’s a lot of pressure' http://bit.ly/19MrJHS #WRC

Chrome translation tool didn't work..................

[AndyRAC]

There was an article about Toyota and their return to WRC in Racecar Engineer a few months ago. Basically they have an engine in development, and the return is a few years away, it went as far as saying 'at the next technical regulations in 2016/17. Toyota won't come in under the existing rules, it may be me misreading things but it hinted at some form of new engine / hybrid.

I can well believe that. They, Toyota are into the hybrids in a big way - WRC seems to have been left behind, whereas they seem to be all the rage in the WEC, with flywheels, capacitors used. Could it be the hybrid/ electric is used on the road sections?
I wonder how many other Manufacturers are interested in the WRC, but don't like the current cars/ regs.

[Mirek]

I can well believe that. They, Toyota are into the hybrids in a big way - WRC seems to have been left behind, whereas they seem to be all the rage in the WEC, with flywheels, capacitors used. Could it be the hybrid/ electric is used on the road sections?
I wonder how many other Manufacturers are interested in the WRC, but don't like the current cars/ regs.

If You want to make WRC much more expensive and much harder to maintain by private teams go for hybrids...

[Rallying UK]

ØSTBERG: Mads Østberg confirms talks with Citroën Racing, Hyundai WRC and M-Sport for 2014:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revistascratch.com%2Fwrc%2Fnoti cia%2Fostberg-necesito-recuperar-la-confianza-perdida-15396

[AndyRAC]

Exactly!! New technology is expensive. I understand ‘road relevance’ in Motorsport – but I wonder if that should be left to F1/ Sportscars.......
Let WRC try and put on a fantastic show – which at the moment it’s not quite doing.

[MJW]

I can well believe that. They, Toyota are into the hybrids in a big way - WRC seems to have been left behind, whereas they seem to be all the rage in the WEC, with flywheels, capacitors used. Could it be the hybrid/ electric is used on the road sections?
I wonder how many other Manufacturers are interested in the WRC, but don't like the current cars/ regs.

If You want to make WRC much more expensive and much harder to maintain by private teams go for hybrids...

Hybrids may be OK in circuits, including LeMans, but I wouldnt want to be in a crash in a stage withh all that stored electrical energy and fire risks. KERS runs very hot, imagine going off the road and have a KERS fire. No thanks.

[MJW]

ØSTBERG: Mads Østberg confirms talks with Citroën Racing, Hyundai WRC and M-Sport for 2014:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revistascratch.com%2Fwrc%2Fnoti cia%2Fostberg-necesito-recuperar-la-confianza-perdida-15396

Mads to Citroen may make sense, especially if what I hear about their driver line up is true, (a circuit racer and a south Europe tarmac specialist) Mads would give them a chance in Sweden, plus Citroen 2014 will require some additional finance. ;) and lets face it Morten hasnt had good value from his sons first year as a works driver.

[Doon]

ØSTBERG: Mads Østberg confirms talks with Citroën Racing, Hyundai WRC and M-Sport for 2014:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revistascratch.com%2Fwrc%2Fnoti cia%2Fostberg-necesito-recuperar-la-confianza-perdida-15396

Mads to Citroen may make sense, especially if what I hear about their driver line up is true, (a circuit racer and a south Europe tarmac specialist) Mads would give them a chance in Sweden, plus Citroen 2014 will require some additional finance. ;) and lets face it Morten hasnt had good value from his sons first year as a works driver.

He hasn't, but that's not M-Sport's fault.