[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[rallyfun]

I´d rather say: go back to the roots. Longer rallies, more stages, more endurance tests. Then the best cars and drivers will be shown.

This is the only way.

Maybe only 2WD?

2WD only worked and made sens a couple of years ago with JWRC and good cars like Citroen C2 or Suzuki Swift but only as the addition to the rally. I can't imagine myself following 2WD championship, I have seen some rallies in BRC and spectators are more interested in old WRC cars (running in national championship) than 2WD. Just waste of time.

[rallye-vid]

Maybe something like that

http://i42.tinypic.com/1ibyhz.jpg

[A FONDO]

or something like "Capito, are you sure you know what RALLY means ?"

[stefanvv]

This I could agree with:
- 50% of the points for the full rally except for the last loop of stages.
- 50% of the points for the last loop of stages (at least 100km or more without full service (flex-service ok) with the endurance aspect could be interesting) to have sunday-afternoon-exciting-broadcast. Everyone can start the last loop, even after abandon in the firs 'round'. If all stages of this loop are very short the one after the other, you could change from camera from one stage to the other and reverse with splits, ... and less chance of a dead moment. It could become something very interesting with tracking, youtube live, ... and 50% of points still to win!

However, I don't understand why they look at the format if they can't even manage to broadcast 15' of review on a lot more channels!

This looks interesting. But I think there shouldn't be Rally 2 in the first place.

[Franky]

I thought April Fools was last month.

[miniwintz]

If they want show, they should put power stage as a SS 1 after qualifing. Also they should award it with 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 points. So all drivers just begin the rally and motivation for points is here.
SS1 will be the power stage in Rallye de France this year. It will be live on TV (as all the other stages thanks to Canal Plus :D See: there actually are people interested in broadcasting rally). Too bad it's a damn super special stage on a parking lot...

[tolis]

So, next year in France the winner of SS1 will be the winner of the rally! Then, he just has to cruise till the end! :D Stupid FIA...

[PLuto]

This idea is so stupid. We (rally fans) can't aprove and permit those guys kill our sport.

They are doing everything to kill World Rally Championship... Not only this stupid ideas with power stage, but also with other things...

[stefanvv]

So, next year in France the winner of SS1 will be the winner of the rally! Then, he just has to cruise till the end! :D Stupid FIA...

Yeah, but on the bright side the TV audience on the PS will be doubled :D (sarcasm)

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I think the most positive thing we can take from the proposal is that the organisers are at least considering the future of the sport and the need to revitalise it, even if the proposal is not the greatest in the world. Part of the problem is that we've gone from the era of Loeb's dominance and appear to be jumping straight into a new era of dominance; in this case, Ogier's. My understanding is that one of the reasons why Ford pulled their factory funding for 2013, but allowed the Fiesta to be used was because they wanted to see what the WRC was like in an era without Loeb. If their drivers could compete, then they would reconsider funding a factory team in 2014. But with Ogier and Volkswagen rising to the top straight away, I can't see that they would be willing to re-fund the team.

Personally, I think the best way forward would be to model the power stage on the Fafe Rally Sprint: run it at the end of each day, with points awarded to the top three drivers (possibly top five if more manufacturers and teams commit to the sport). Offer additional points to the driver with the fastest aggregate time.

[BDunnell]

Yes, I agree with the point above about being grateful for there existing some recognition of the need for significant changes. But there's no doubt in my mind that this particular proposal would effectively ruin the sport as we know it. Time was when things like rallysprints were a nice, non-purist adjunct to a healthy sport. I never imagined we would see them assuming any level of importance.

To me, all this seems to be skirting around the most important problem: the need drastically to cut the cost of competing in the WRC.

[Mirek]

You can NEVER cut costs while manufacturers or other wealthy players are directly involved. They will always spend all their budget no matter if the car is completely made of wood and nails and driven by pedals or if the rally is one day long.

[BDunnell]

You can NEVER cut costs while manufacturers or other wealthy players are directly involved.

You can, but with difficulty. Unless costs are cut, the sport in the form in which we know it will die.

[jonlint]

You can NEVER cut costs while manufacturers or other wealthy players are directly involved. They will always spend all their budget no matter if the car is completely made of wood and nails and driven by pedals or if the rally is one day long.

Agreed, but you can CONTAIN costs. R1 is the best thing out of the FIA for a while, maybe for a long time to come too!

[Motorsportfun]

Personally, I think the best way forward would be to model the power stage on the Fafe Rally Sprint: run it at the end of each day, with points awarded to the top three drivers (possibly top five if more manufacturers and teams commit to the sport). Offer additional points to the driver with the fastest aggregate time.

That could really be good point. Giving a point to the overnight leader, then running an end-of-the-day Power Stage on Friday and Saturday too, but reducing the overall points at the end of the event... that would be good enough.

All that IMHO.

[tolis]

Acropolis and Sardegna in a Ford Fiesta RRC, Spain and Wales in a Ford Fiesta R5 for Bertelli!

[Prisoner Monkeys]

That could really be good point. Giving a point to the overnight leader, then running an end-of-the-day Power Stage on Friday and Saturday too, but reducing the overall points at the end of the event... that would be good enough.
The problem with the points system is that it's the "universal" system that the FIA uses. It was originally introduced in 2010, when the Formula 1 grid expanded to include 24 cars, and there was a need to award more points to more positions for the purposes of the championship. However, the WRC doesn't have enough cars to make it feasible. The series has half the number of entries of a Grand Prix.

[Mirek]

You can, but with difficulty. Unless costs are cut, the sport in the form in which we know it will die.

How? The only possibility is to somehow limit budget of teams which is very difficult to control. Doing some mandatory financial audits as a part of sporting regulations is for me somewhat weird. However so far the actions were more pointed into simplifying technical rules but those failed for certain reason. Here another problem is that needs of manufacturers and privateers are completely different. For healthier sport cheaper for privateers I would prefer to get rid of homologations and let free space for alternative part suppliers etc. However that's something what manufacturers would never agree with.


Agreed, but you can CONTAIN costs. R1 is the best thing out of the FIA for a while, maybe for a long time to come too!

R1 might be good for one make cups supported by manufacturers but aside of them I can see no interest in these cars among competitors. For example here we have 50-150 cars in every event but the number of R1 cars in the whole country is less than 5. I think only 2 or 3.

[Motorsportfun]

The problem with the points system is that it's the "universal" system that the FIA uses. It was originally introduced in 2010, when the Formula 1 grid expanded to include 24 cars, and there was a need to award more points to more positions for the purposes of the championship. However, the WRC doesn't have enough cars to make it feasible. The series has half the number of entries of a Grand Prix.

Indeed, a new points system is needed in WRC. 25 and down to 1 it's not necessary at the moment in WRC.

[rallyfiend]

I'm not sure why in 2014 they just couldn't start with covering each Power Stage at each event Live on TV as it was in 2011? build up to new concepts.

What were the complaints about that? No-one seemed to have many issues with that then?

Certainly all the drivers seemed to go 'balls to the wall' to win it. even with only 3 points on offer for the win.

[stefanvv]

Certainly all the drivers seemed to go 'balls to the wall' to win it. even with only 3 points on offer for the win.
Not all of them. In some events Loeb (for example) didn't want to bin its victory just for 3 points added. Ogier is another case though :D

[rallyfiend]

Not all of them. In some events Loeb (for example) didn't want to bin its victory just for 3 points added. Ogier is another case though :D

He said that - at the start of the year, as did others - but was it true. He won lots of PS while leading the event.

Didn't come true in reality. The red mist still seemed to take over for all of them.

[Mirek]

If I remember right Loeb was the one who took the most PS points last season.

[dimviii]

. Ogier is another case though :D

which case you mean?Back off while he had 2 days remaining,the okto fight from Capito and the difference was 27 seconds?
Personally i prefere to fight all the rally than just a powerstage.

[BDunnell]

How? The only possibility is to somehow limit budget of teams which is very difficult to control. Doing some mandatory financial audits as a part of sporting regulations is for me somewhat weird. However so far the actions were more pointed into simplifying technical rules but those failed for certain reason. Here another problem is that needs of manufacturers and privateers are completely different. For healthier sport cheaper for privateers I would prefer to get rid of homologations and let free space for alternative part suppliers etc. However that's something what manufacturers would never agree with.

Given that resource restriction agreements and the like are very hard to enforce, I believe it has to come largely through a cheaper technical formula. Rallying today is beyond the point at which saying cost-cutting is impossible is a suitable get-out. Rising costs are, in my view, a significant factor in the decline of the sport both at national and international level.

[Kielder]

Piece of news about Pozzo's future. He would run in Australia too.

Gabriel Pozzo: Sólo pienso en manejar (http://mundod.lavoz.com.ar/motores/gabriel-pozzo-solo-pienso-en-manejar)

[Mirek]

Given that resource restriction agreements and the like are very hard to enforce, I believe it has to come largely through a cheaper technical formula. Rallying today is beyond the point at which saying cost-cutting is impossible is a suitable get-out. Rising costs are, in my view, a significant factor in the decline of the sport both at national and international level.

I can't agree with You. Ten year s ago cars were filled with in that time hi-tech stuff such as hydraulic differentials and gearboxes, very sophisticated launch-control systems, inlet water injection, there was plenty of carbon, almost everything was purpose made. Now we have basically 80'-90' level of machinery with no central diffs at-all, no launch control, no hydraulic gearboxes, no carbon bodyshell panels, no titanium parts etc. Both differentials are simple clutch type. The only "hi-tech" stuff is the engine with direct injection but that is hardly something entirely new as petrol direct injection is in use in stock cars already since 1996 (Mitsubishi Carisma). In fact it was used already in Mercedes 300SL in 1955!

What more simple You want to invent? Fact is that current cars despite being technologically way more simple than previous ones are not cheaper. There is clear conclusion that You can't reduce costs by technical rules.

Fabia S2000 driveshaft costs 2000 Euro. How do You want to make it simpler so that it's cheaper? It's not the design what makes it so expensive. Engine rebuild of Fiesta WRC costs 35-40 thousand Euro, why?

[DIMI44]

If I remember right Loeb was the one who took the most PS points last season.
LOEB: 19
SOLBERG:15
LATVALA: 14
HIRVONEN:13
SORDO: 5
etc,etc......

[stefanvv]

So, this year Ogier after 5 Rallies has 13 I believe

EDIT: Ops, No PS at Monte I forgot, so 11 - Saison WRC (http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc)

[stefanvv]

which case you mean?Back off while he had 2 days remaining,the okto fight from Capito and the difference was 27 seconds?
Personally i prefere to fight all the rally than just a powerstage.

No I meant only the above difference in PS points. As for the fight I too believe they should be all the Rally, but realistically Rally is far from these days.

[dimviii]

No I meant only the above difference in PS points.
No you just wanted to minimise Loebs achievements as many times.


As for the fight I too believe they should be all the Rally, but realistically Rally is far from these days.
No its not far.Loeb attacked at 2nd day,even he hadn t won any stage at 1st day.Ogier refused the fight even he had 2 days to show us how fast he is against the semiretired Loeb.
But as many said,Loeb ruined the sport.

[stefanvv]

No you just wanted to minimise Loebs achievements as many times.
It may sound like that, but I only wanted to point out Ogier's achievments this year comparing to.... Loeb of course, who else ;)


No its not far.Loeb attacked at 2nd day,even he hadn t won any stage at 1st day.Ogier refused the fight even he had 2 days to show us how fast he is against the semiretired Loeb.
But as many said,Loeb ruined the sport.
I don't agree. Loeb had 2 stage victories - SS8 & 9 (second loop of 2nd day, after Ogier hit that trouble in SS7). On SS8 Ogier had puncture 7 km before end, before that he was attacking and was leading him. After that he didn't fight anymore because no spares left for SS9, and almost 30 seconds realistically are impossible to gain against Loeb for less than 100 kms left of the Rally.

[dimviii]

It may sound like that, but I only wanted to point out Ogier's achievments this year comparing to.... Loeb of course, who else ;)
So tell us his achievements,because you confused me.



I don't agree. Loeb had 2 stage victories - SS8 & 9
I was reffering at 1st day,no stage wins,setup problems,not best tyre choice,too many driving errors as he said,but found the balls to attack with 17 sec difference.

(second loop of 2nd day, after Ogier hit that trouble in SS7). On SS8 Ogier had puncture 7 km before end, before that he was attacking and was leading him. After that he didn't fight anymore because no spares left for SS9, and almost 30 seconds realistically are impossible to gain against Loeb for less than 100 kms left of the Rally.
yes i know that Loeb as he found the right setup and right tyre choice with 2 spares into the car was faster 7 seconds at 3rd split(before handbrake blockage...) at stage 7 from Ogier with 1 spare tyre.
So how you see Ogiers achievements?

[stefanvv]

So how you see Ogiers achievements?

Much better than Loebs last years, I don't know about his first, have to check.

[stefanvv]

yes i know that Loeb as he found the right setup and right tyre choice with 2 spares into the car was faster 7 seconds at 3rd split(before handbrake blockage...) at stage 7 from Ogier with 1 spare tyre.

Ogier had handbrake issues before the accident (and service). So who won SS7 after all? Ah yes, it was Ostberg, so Loeb was not in his best attack mode condition yet?!?

[Barreis]

World Rally Championship - News - Features - Answers please: Sebastien Ogier (http://www.wrc.com/news/features/answers-please-sebastien-ogier/?fid=18560)

[dimviii]

Ogier had handbrake issues before the accident (and service).

really? and with handbrake issues he won 5 stages,but when handbrake issues appeared again lost 7 seconds at 3rd split in one stage?


So who won SS7 after all? Ah yes, it was Ostberg, so Loeb was not in his best attack mode condition yet?!?
yes he didn t won 7th stage.But thats not our conversation,our conversation is ''Ogier achievements against Loeb''as you said.

[dimviii]

Much better than Loebs last years, I don't know about his first, have to check.

now you compare last years.Before some posts...


but I only wanted to point out Ogier's achievments this year comparing to.... Loeb

so decide what do you want to compare.

[rallye-vid]

Guys, continue your Loeb vs Ogier battle here: http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/152244-sebastien-loeb-vs.html

[stefanvv]

I think I said enough. I'm not going to continue this discussion

[tolis]

Julien Ingrassia enjoyed his day in Greece today. Tomorrow, he'll be busier! ;)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/941024_10151607404988728_67536861_n.jpg

[dimviii]

I think I said enough. I'm not going to continue this discussion

pitty you didn t explain us his achievements.

[dimviii]

Julien Ingrassia enjoyed his day in Greece today. Tomorrow, he'll be busier!
:D

[tolis]

:D

Like you, dim! ;)

[dimviii]

Like you, dim! ;)

hope so mate!

[makinen_fan]

what's going to happen tomorrow guys?

[stefanvv]

pitty you didn t explain us his achievements.

I just leave that to the numbers

[MJW]

what's going to happen tomorrow guys?
VW pre Acropolis test

[A.F.F.]

I would love to know which members of the commission are in favor of putting that proposal forward ?? Why not three days of rally and then scissor, rock and paper to decide who won ?

What happened to the rumours I heard that current promoter (RedBull that is ) was planning to bring back the element of adventure to the rally? Or was this what they meant? I surely understood it very differently. :mark:

[rallyfun]

Ogier had handbrake issues before the accident (and service). So who won SS7 after all? Ah yes, it was Ostberg, so Loeb was not in his best attack mode condition yet?!?

That "issue" has been explained by VW and it's not a faulty handbrake it's just how VW design it, Mikkelsen has redesigned one but VW wants to test it more before putting into Ogier's and Latvala's cars. So it sounds more like excuse if they have it from begging of the season than a real problem.

[A FONDO]

I just leave that to the numbers

stefan, dont waste your time

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23217617.jpg

[makinen_fan]

I cant recall RedBull ever talking about bringing back adventure and long distance rally, Jean Todt was the main supporter of this. Actually this is the first time that there are some proposition/plans by the 'saviours' (RedBull) of WRC are heard publicly. From what it seems, RedBull is not keen to invest for live coverage in the same manner as Eurosport does with ERC... Question is why did FIA chose them in the first place?

IMHO Matton's is view on how to provide live coverage is valid and certainly acceptable. Leave the rally as it now, and run the Power Stage as a standalone event just for the sake of live coverage and award some points, like Fafe sprint.

[Mirek]

That "issue" has been explained by VW and it's not a faulty handbrake it's just how VW design it, Mikkelsen has redesigned one but VW wants to test it more before putting into Ogier's and Latvala's cars. So it sounds more like excuse if they have it from begging of the season than a real problem.

In the racecar engineering article they say VW uses pneumatic-operated clutch for handbrake turns while others use hydraulic one. The new VW one is electric one.

Last summer I spoke with some JAS mechanic during Barum scrutineering. I was curious why their works Civic R3 isn't fit with the pneumatic gear-shift paddles they developed. He didn't speak much English but I understood they had big reliability issues with the system so they abandoned it. Maybe it's same case with VW...

[Mirek]

I cant recall RedBull ever talking about bringing back adventure and long distance rally, Jean Todt was the main supporter of this. Actually this is the first time that there are some proposition/plans by the 'saviours' (RedBull) of WRC are heard publicly. From what it seems, RedBull is not keen to invest for live coverage in the same manner as Eurosport does with ERC... Question is why did FIA chose them in the first place?

IMHO Matton's is view on how to provide live coverage is valid and certainly acceptable. Leave the rally as it now, and run the Power Stage as a standalone event just for the sake of live coverage and award some points, like Fafe sprint.

That's what I find strange. Prior this season Mr. Ribeiro from Eurosport clearly said in autosport.cz interview that RedBull offered better package then Eurosport could afford but so far we have not seen anything special from RedBull media house regarding WRC.

[makinen_fan]

In the racecar engineering article they say VW uses pneumatic-operated clutch for handbrake turns while others use hydraulic one. The new VW one is electric one.

Last summer I spoke with some JAS mechanic during Barum scrutineering. I was curious why their works Civic R3 isn't fit with the pneumatic gear-shift paddles they developed. He didn't speak much English but I understood they had big reliability issues with the system so they abandoned it. Maybe it's same case with VW...

Are you sure it is electric? Autosport reports that the started with a mechanical device (similar to the Fiesta system), now they run the pneumatic and Mikkelsen is running the hydraulic system.
Volkswagen WRC team stands firm as drivers push over upgrades - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107267)

Another question that I am not sure how the regulations work. Isn't the handbrake part of the homologation of the whole car? Can they change systems as they like as the season goes?

[Mirek]

Here on page 2 it's written VW homologated electric one prior Mexico but didn't use it there: http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/140160-vw-news-2012-wrc-2013-a-81.html

To be exact they write VW replaced bottle with pressed air by an electric driven pump. That seems to me like the system is still pneumatic only without a storage of pressed air.

I don't know how many VO's they can homologate per year but it's sure not many.

[stefanvv]

That "issue" has been explained by VW and it's not a faulty handbrake it's just how VW design it, Mikkelsen has redesigned one but VW wants to test it more before putting into Ogier's and Latvala's cars. So it sounds more like excuse if they have it from begging of the season than a real problem.

There is lot more than that as Mirek said. At some point in some cases it doesn't work at all (Latvala) or it is "stuck" when you pull it and blocks the wheels (Ogier).

[makinen_fan]

Here on page 2 it's written VW homologated electric one prior Mexico but didn't use it there: http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/140160-vw-news-2012-wrc-2013-a-81.html

To be exact they write VW replaced bottle with pressed air by an electric driven pump. That seems to me like the system is still pneumatic only without a storage of pressed air.

I don't know how many VO's they can homologate per year but it's sure not many.


The electric motor is used to provide the pressure for the hydraulic system according to this:

Demaison admitted he was reluctant to run the hydraulic system.

"It's heavier, it's more complicated and it takes power from the engine to run an electrical motor," he said.

Doesn't current WRCars have any other hydraulic systems and hence they need a dedicated motor for that? The previous era of WRCs had all kind of hydraulic devices (gearbox, diffs etc) so such a motor would not be necessary.

[noel157]

Currently it's electro-pneumatic then. Wonder why it has to be complicated? What was wrong with an old-fashioned hydraulic handbrake? Like in the 70s and 80s.
Maybe I'm missing something.....

[stefanvv]

Currently it's electro-pneumatic then. Wonder why it has to be complicated? What was wrong with an old-fashioned hydraulic handbrake? Like in the 70s and 80s.
Maybe I'm missing something.....

Damage control I guess - less power from the engine

[RAS007]

More information about the absurdity: World Rally Championship in radical power stage decider proposal - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107262?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Good grief. This sport is in bigger trouble than I thought. Every rally is now a sprint event, with less stage miles than ever before - 14 stages in Argentina, 7 of which are repeats? The WRC is becoming a parody of its former self. The sport desperately needs change, but the exact opposite of the kind of proposals we are seeing. If we keep going like this, the WRC will be dead within a couple of years; it is most certainly on life support right now, and these kind of ideas are just another nail in the coffin.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Every rally is now a sprint event, with less stage miles than ever before - 14 stages in Argentina, 7 of which are repeats? The WRC is becoming a parody of its former self.
Don't be so quick to judge. The Rally Argentina might have had just fourteen stages, but it was still run over 400km. The Ascochinga-Agua de Oro stage in particular was over 50km long, while Santa Rosa-Villa del Dique was 40km long and Amboy-Yacanto fell just short of 40km (by about 800m). That's by no means a sprint. If anything, Argentina has the kind of stages the sport should be pushing for.

[RAS007]

Don't be so quick to judge. The Rally Argentina might have had just fourteen stages, but it was still run over 400km. The Ascochinga-Agua de Oro stage in particular was over 50km long, while Santa Rosa-Villa del Dique was 40km long and Amboy-Yacanto fell just short of 40km (by about 800m). That's by no means a sprint. If anything, Argentina has the kind of stages the sport should be pushing for.

Really? In the mid 1980's, Argentina was almost 1,200kms, that's 3 times longer than it is today. In the mid 90's, it was 600kms. If you think 400kms (actually 200kms run twice) isn't a sprint, then you have a very different idea of what rallying is than I do, but I think that has already been established. I'm out.

[rallyfiend]

That's what I find strange. Prior this season Mr. Ribeiro from Eurosport clearly said in autosport.cz interview that RedBull offered better package then Eurosport could afford but so far we have not seen anything special from RedBull media house regarding WRC.

Does Eurosport 'invest' in Live though?

I thought they only did Live when the Event Organiser was willing to spend the cash?

[br21]

Currently it's electro-pneumatic then. Wonder why it has to be complicated? What was wrong with an old-fashioned hydraulic handbrake? Like in the 70s and 80s.
Maybe I'm missing something.....

Handbrake is operated normal - like in every other rally car. So hydraulic, additional pump connected to lever which builds pressure in brake system and blocks rear wheels.
The other thing is how power is "cut" from rear wheels when handbrake is used. As there is no center diff when you pull the handbrake without pressing the clutch all 4 wheels lock... so they made special system which disconnects power from rear wheels when handbrake is pulled. Usually it's hydraulically operated, but like VWs case shows it might be pneumatic or electro pneumatic...

[garais22]

Baltic biggest rally team ASRT planning to buy two R5 cars (http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/rallijs/2123-asrt-iegadasies-latvija-vel-neredzetu-rallija-tehniku-foto/). And one of the fastest Baltic rally drivers Alexy Lukyanuk (ASRT team) next season probable will drive full ERC season.

[AdvEvo]

Redbull is not the company that will give us nice tv coverage. On eurosport ERC is much much better.

i think that redbull is not very interested to put more effort in it. The viewers on tv is not enough for them. They rather give money to a guy which jumps of the moon in a parachute. So that every average joe sits for the tv following it. All they want is to sell the to expensive energy drink to the masses. Wrc coverage is not big enough for them to spend more money on.

[Mirek]

Does Eurosport 'invest' in Live though?

I thought they only did Live when the Event Organiser was willing to spend the cash?

My comment was about WRC promoter. If they offered to FIA considerably better package than Eurosport (that's what Eurosport admits) where is the result? For me the coverage of WRC this year is hardly any better than ERC. In the end for us it doesn't matter who pays the coverage but if there is some at all. Acores had live stages, Corsica will have them too. Nothing like that in WRC so where is the considerably better package?

[rallyfiend]

My comment was about WRC promoter. If they offered to FIA considerably better package than Eurosport (that's what Eurosport admits) where is the result? For me the coverage of WRC this year is hardly any better than ERC. In the end for us it doesn't matter who pays the coverage but if there is some at all. Acores had live stages, Corsica will have them too. Nothing like that in WRC so where is the considerably better package?

For this year, fair comment.

But one would assume that under the proposal to be discussed at the Commission (the new Power Stage) that the WRC Promoter is proposing to cover the last stage of each event live for TV - as NOS did in 2011.

Has Eurosport ever proposed such wide-ranging coverage off their own bat (as opposed to only doing it when organisers paid)?

[makinen_fan]

For this year, fair comment.

But one would assume that under the proposal to be discussed at the Commission (the new Power Stage) that the WRC Promoter is proposing to cover the last stage of each event live for TV - as NOS did in 2011.

Has Eurosport ever proposed such wide-ranging coverage off their own bat (as opposed to only doing it when organisers paid)?

But so far RedBull has no intention to do that either. They want to force a major change in order to commit showing live coverage. So, if this is the price to pay to have live coverage it is better not to have it at all or better to have Eurosport kind of coverage in selected events and where the organisers are happy to pay for it.

The better package that Eurosport has already mentioned is probably associated with fees paid directly to the FIA and not the whole 'package' of how they will approach promoting WRC. Also it may worth considering that Eurosport probably would wanted to have its own people involved in the WRC, where RedBull use the majority (or maybe everyone that was involved with NOS, and that's why we do not see any kind of improvement in the 7-8 months that they were announced as the promoters. The only thing they have done is to include a section in their website for WRC under 'Off-road' (go figure out how relevant these people are with rallying) and just updated the video section of wrc.com. And now they propose these ridiculous changes... Sorry but Eurosport would be able to do much more for us, and FIA once again betray the sport probably in favour of money.

[Mirek]

For this year, fair comment.

But one would assume that under the proposal to be discussed at the Commission (the new Power Stage) that the WRC Promoter is proposing to cover the last stage of each event live for TV - as NOS did in 2011.

Has Eurosport ever proposed such wide-ranging coverage off their own bat (as opposed to only doing it when organisers paid)?

I don't know what Eurosport offered to FIA regarding WRC I just comment the current WRC situation which is far from what I was hoping for. Some recent idiotic ideas about power stage sure don't make me believe in better days coming...

[rallyfiend]

But so far RedBull has no intention to do that either. They want to force a major change in order to commit showing live coverage. So, if this is the price to pay to have live coverage it is better not to have it at all or better to have Eurosport kind of coverage in selected events and where the organisers are happy to pay for it.

The better package that Eurosport has already mentioned is probably associated with fees paid directly to the FIA and not the whole 'package' of how they will approach promoting WRC. Also it may worth considering that Eurosport probably would wanted to have its own people involved in the WRC, where RedBull use the majority (or maybe everyone that was involved with NOS, and that's why we do not see any kind of improvement in the 7-8 months that they were announced as the promoters. The only thing they have done is to include a section in their website for WRC under 'Off-road' (go figure out how relevant these people are with rallying) and just updated the video section of wrc.com. And now they propose these ridiculous changes... Sorry but Eurosport would be able to do much more for us, and FIA once again betray the sport probably in favour of money.

Are they using a lot of NOS people? In what areas?

I've only seen Oliver Ciesla as Managing Director of Sportsman quoted anywhere. Would he be taking direction from people below him?!

[noel157]

But so far RedBull has no intention to do that either. They want to force a major change in order to commit showing live coverage. So, if this is the price to pay to have live coverage it is better not to have it at all or better to have Eurosport kind of coverage in selected events and where the organisers are happy to pay for it.

The better package that Eurosport has already mentioned is probably associated with fees paid directly to the FIA and not the whole 'package' of how they will approach promoting WRC. Also it may worth considering that Eurosport probably would wanted to have its own people involved in the WRC, where RedBull use the majority (or maybe everyone that was involved with NOS, and that's why we do not see any kind of improvement in the 7-8 months that they were announced as the promoters. The only thing they have done is to include a section in their website for WRC under 'Off-road' (go figure out how relevant these people are with rallying) and just updated the video section of wrc.com. And now they propose these ridiculous changes... Sorry but Eurosport would be able to do much more for us, and FIA once again betray the sport probably in favour of money.

Eurosport certainly understand rallying, not sure Redbull have quite got that level of understanding. Just hope they don't try and turn WRC into some sort of circus or carnival. Hope I'm wrong but....

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Really? In the mid 1980's, Argentina was almost 1,200kms, that's 3 times longer than it is today. In the mid 90's, it was 600kms. If you think 400kms (actually 200kms run twice) isn't a sprint, then you have a very different idea of what rallying is than I do, but I think that has already been established. I'm out.
And you know perfectly well that a 1,200km rally isn't possible if the sport is to stay within the public consciousness. There is no way anyone could justify the expense of sending out massive television crews to the middle of South America to appease fans of a niche motorsport category, howver dedicated those fans are.

[rallyfiend]

And you know perfectly well that a 1,200km rally isn't possible if the sport is to stay within the public consciousness. There is no way anyone could justify the expense of sending out massive television crews to the middle of South America to appease fans of a niche motorsport category, howver dedicated those fans are.

Also, what Organiser can afford to run such a long event? Where would the money to pay for it come from?

Look what's happening in the WRC now. So many events going shorter (km's, number of days etc) in order to save money.

[bluuford]

Well, recent thing I discovered is the possibility to look full reviews of the rally some time after the end of rally. Portugal full day reviews are on official page right now, I hope Argentina will be there as well, soon.

[Leon]

Well, recent thing I discovered is the possibility to look full reviews of the rally some time after the end of rally. Portugal full day reviews are on official page right now, I hope Argentina will be there as well, soon.

you can also find the reviews well before posted on wrc.com here WRC Philips LED Rally Argentina 2013: Magazine ::: Free Sport Live Streams / Videos (http://www.laola1.tv/en/int/motorsports/fia-world-rally-championship/wrc-philips-led-rally-argentina-2013-magazine/video/492-2978-118355.html)

[Miika]

Had a minor stroke while reading Capito´s comments about Grönholm and the "new stars". If the shootout-stage idea does go through some day then fine, as long as they don´t call it rallying.

[makinen_fan]

More great news coming from FIA! A round in China is considered for next year's calendar. Although 2 out of 3 team principles do not seem to be in favour of this.
World Rally Championship close to sealing 2014 China return - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107317)

[rallye-vid]

How many cars will we have in china? 10-15?

[MikeD]

More great news coming from FIA! A round in China is considered for next year's calendar. Although 2 out of 3 team principles do not seem to be in favour of this.
World Rally Championship close to sealing 2014 China return - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107317)

I think this is done to attract one of the Chinese car brands that is considering entering the WRC. If one of the Chinese car brands are to spend that kind of money they might require the promotion from a home event.

[tommeke_B]

I think this is done to attract one of the Chinese car brands that is considering entering the WRC. If one of the Chinese car brands are to spend that kind of money they might require the promotion from a home event.
What Chinese car brand? Name one please... I don't know any suitable for it.

[darkstar]

is there any chinese car brand at all?

[A FONDO]

http://img.car24h.org/2011/9/21/6/yema-f16-1.jpg

http://www.inautonews.com/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/rolls_royce_copy_1390322i.dynmehd6r6ogsoo84oc84480 c.a5fuq7lrqzkgc0ccw4ss08gso.th.jpeg

http://ethiopiaforums.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/china-geely-mercedes.jpg

[makinen_fan]

I d love to see the last one flying over the jump of ouninpohja... :P it will be a hilarious sight

[miniwintz]

I think this is done to attract one of the Chinese car brands that is considering entering the WRC. If one of the Chinese car brands are to spend that kind of money they might require the promotion from a home event.
I think you have the issue the wrong way around. WRC wants to come to China because its sponsors think that there might be a potential market there. I would not be surprised if Citroën was behind this, as they already have a pretty solid distribution medium there and they would certainly not suffer from a bit more promotion. China is PSA's second biggest market, but it's still very small compared to European countries' and it has the potential to grow BIG.

[rallye-vid]

Although 2 out of 3 team principles do not seem to be in favour of this.


I think Citroen and Ford said a NO. VW said HURRA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_China

[miniwintz]

edited: wrote nonsense

[rallye-vid]

PSA sold nearly 400,000 vehicles in China in 2012

VW


Volkswagen Group China enjoys sales of about 2.81 million cars (2012) in the Chinese market

And they want more...

[miniwintz]

Yep, you are right, edited just before I saw your post. Anyway, both 3 can profit from Chinese promotion, and Team Directors' opinion don't mean much.

[ToughMac]

http://img.car24h.org/2011/9/21/6/yema-f16-1.jpg

http://www.inautonews.com/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/rolls_royce_copy_1390322i.dynmehd6r6ogsoo84oc84480 c.a5fuq7lrqzkgc0ccw4ss08gso.th.jpeg

http://ethiopiaforums.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/china-geely-mercedes.jpg

Love the way the Chinese blatantly copy brands and don't give a dam, give it a few years and we will all be riding around on Hongda or even Haoda motorcycles :)

[stefanvv]

http://img.car24h.org/2011/9/21/6/yema-f16-1.jpg

http://www.inautonews.com/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/rolls_royce_copy_1390322i.dynmehd6r6ogsoo84oc84480 c.a5fuq7lrqzkgc0ccw4ss08gso.th.jpeg

http://ethiopiaforums.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/china-geely-mercedes.jpg

Dores this helps for the popularity of German car makers in China :D

[A.F.F.]

Chinese Auto Manufacturers List - Information on Car, Truck, Bus, Motorcycle Makers in China (chery automobile, geely, gwm etc.) (http://www.chinacarforums.com/chinese_car_manufacturers.html)

Wow.... it's a goldmine !!!

:dozey:

[MrJan]

Isn't MG a Chinese thing now?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

More great news coming from FIA! A round in China is considered for next year's calendar. Although 2 out of 3 team principles do not seem to be in favour of this.
World Rally Championship close to sealing 2014 China return - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107317)
I fail to see how this is "great news". The way I remember it, the 1999 China Rally was a total disaster. I seem to recall Colin McRae saying that he came flying around a corner early on and nearly ran into a cart driven by a local farmer. The organisers had gone to great lengths to set the event up, but they hadn't actually told anybody that it was on, and so the local had no idea that death in the form of a slavering 200km/h dirt monster was about to come screaming around the corner. McRae said he backed off completely after that incident.

That said, it's been a part of the Asia-Pacific Rally Championship since 2000, so the organisers have evidently gotten their game together.


Chinese Auto Manufacturers List - Information on Car, Truck, Bus, Motorcycle Makers in China (chery automobile, geely, gwm etc.) (http://www.chinacarforums.com/chinese_car_manufacturers.html)

Wow.... it's a goldmine !!!
I think you mean "asbestos mine".

[makinen_fan]

I was being sarcastic. After the powerstage news, now this. The whole thing stinks.

For me personally the only benefit for having China in the wrc calendar in 1999 was the late cancellation of the 2000 event (around May if I am correct) and the last minute addition of my home rally for 8 more years in the wrc.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I don't necessarily think it's bad news. The merit of the China Rally depends entirely on the reasons for going to China. Would the WRC be going there because the event would make the calendar stronger, or would they only be going there to appease manufacturers?

To be perfectly honest, I never had much love in me for the Rally of Cyprus. I always saw it as being too similar to the Acropolis: hot, dry, dusty and murder on the cars. It didn't really add anything more to the calendar, because it didn't have a character of its own.

A return to China would no doubt be good for the likes of Hyundai and any Asian car manufacturer looking to enter the category, because it would give them a local rally to compete in and use to improve their profile. If that is the only reason why the WRC is going there, then it's probably a bad idea. But if the rally had its own character, something to define it and make it stand out from every other event, then I don't see that being a bad thing.

[vino_93]

How many cars will we have in china? 10-15?
It's a bit a paradox ...
20 years ago, there was plenty of FIA homologated cars, all around in the world, Asia included.
Now ... except Europe, R cars don't travel to the rest of the world... More and more national championship are abandonning FIA regulations for local rules.
There is at least around 10 R3 outside from Europe (some in Chile and 2 in Australia), and about fifteen R2 in the rest of the World (Fiesta R2 in Australia, USA, NZ, SA, ...). Maybe first of all FIA has to do something with this, if they want to export WRC.


But a race in China could have some contenders. There is still some N4 running there, and asian drivers might be attracted by the only WRC events there.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

It could easily attract a lot of the drivers competing in the ARPC, since it's already a round of that championship.

[Maui J.]

Isn't MG a Chinese thing now?

Yep, owned by SAIC (Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation) and Volvo is owned by Geely.

A WRC in China is two-fold, great for manufacturers and sponsors to promote their products to the world's biggest market, plus also to gain the interest of potential new manufacturers.
As one chinese motor journalist said years ago, the only way for chinese cars are to be taken seriously in the international market is to enter international motorsport.

In this country 40 years ago people ridiculed the "Jap-Crap" cars starting to fill the market.
20 years ago the same thing happened when the Korean manufacturers arrived here. Now look where they are. Toyota has been number 1 brand for at least 15 years, Hyundai is sitting nicely at number 2, with predictions it will be number 1 in the near future.
Chinese manufacturers are starting to make an appearance here over the last 5 or so years. Great Wall, Chery and Geely to name the ones I've seen. Sales are price driven, these cars are super cheap. The Chery J1 (1.3 litre, 4 door hatch, 62 kW) is only is about 7020 Euro.
Given time and some kudos on the race/rally circuit, Chinese cars will be a force not to taken lightly.
You or your kids will probably own one one day.

[Hartusvuori]

Juho Hänninen is now a father of twins. This is the reason why he missed Rally Portugal. Congratulations!

In interview for Aamulehti newspaper he said although he is now a busy father, his team is working hard for new rallies.

[rallye-vid]

Why VW loves china: Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Funter nehmen%2Fchina-vw-baut-neues-werk-in-changsha-in-maos-heimatprovinz-hunan-a-899237.html)

[Humber]

The current China Rally is based around Longyou in Zhejiang province. The stages are mixed concrete and gravel.

[Humber]

The current China Rally is based around Longyou in Zhejiang province. The stages are mixed concrete and gravel. 5 hours south west of Shanghai. China Rally 2011 - Part 1/2 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Wmz0nJ2Jo9U)

[makinen_fan]

Some very good news. PG is doing 6 WRC rounds: Sardinia, Finland, Germany, France, Catalunya and Wales

[dimviii]

s it confrmed?

[pantealex]

Some very good news. PG is doing 6 WRC rounds: Sardinia, Finland, Germany, France, Catalunya and Wales

and IF it´s Tamrazov´s car, he will probably drive those 6 in WRC-2 (Tamrazov is already in Acropolis WRC-2 and they can do 7 rallies)

[makinen_fan]

s it confrmed?

Emil Axelsson posted it on twitter. They will run with Tamrazov Fiesta

[Micke_VOC]

and IF it´s Tamrazov´s car, he will probably drive those 6 in WRC-2 (Tamrazov is already in Acropolis WRC-2 and they can do 7 rallies)

Emil wrote Fiesta WRC on Twitter and in all news they say WRC, so this is very good news !
"P-G" Andersson klar för sex VM-deltävlingar - nwt.se - Ditt Värmland, just nu! (http://www.nwt.se/sport/motorsport/article1307361.ece)

From PG´s Website:
" PG and Emil will start in the team's WRC Ford Fiesta, while Alexey Tamrazov will drive his Super 2000 car in the events he can."

[dimviii]

Ingrassias opinion from his facebook about the regulations

We are in 21st century and, with respect and open-mind, all can be said isn't it ?
So, here is my own opinion, when I hear that choice of the starting position could be ,in the future, done by a lottery ; and also that the winner of a rally could be the one that wins the last stage... In this case we could also say : "the crew who win the last stage of the last rally, wins the Championship", no ? :( (

! WRC IS NOT A LOTTERY, WRC IS NOT A TRACK RACE !

WRC IS DOZENS OF PEOPLE WORKING TO CREATE THE MOST RELIABLE AND PERFORMANT CAR FOR A CREW THAT THEN, WILL DRIVE 160km/h IN LITTLE GRAVEL ROADS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TREES - WHERE CAN WE CONSIDERE THAT THIS IS A "GAME OF CHANCE" ?

https://el-gr.facebook.com/julien.ingrassia

[dimviii]

Capito will NOT like this.

[Barreis]

Capito is not a rally man. He's just a good team manager.

[rallye-vid]

Getting closer to my t-shirt design

http://i44.tinypic.com/30kelj9.jpg

[A FONDO]

Are you sure you want this worn out style? I think it is good for some casual skater's t-shirt, but here you want to be seen and understood by as many more people as possible.

Also, have you considered to draw some old sheet and put it on the stages to be caught by onboard cameras?

[rallye-vid]

Yep, you are right.. Will change the font.

Will also think about the sheet ;)

[Rallyper]

Yep, you are right.. Will change the font.

Will also think about the sheet ;)

Where can we buy it? Seriously.

[Kielder]

Some very good news. PG is doing 6 WRC rounds: Sardinia, Finland, Germany, France, Catalunya and Wales

He has a strong chance to be the runner-up :rolleyes: .

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Runner-up of what?

[jbmarcus21]

[PHOTOS] & [VIDEOS] Peugeot testing 208T16 Pikes Peak in France
Peugeot Sport prépare sa 208T16 au Mont Ventoux ! (http://planetemarcus.com/peugeot-sport-prepare-sa-208t16-au-mont-ventoux/)

[Doon]

Where can we buy it? Seriously.

I want one too!

Honestly, these idea's are pathetic. People will always rally, there will always be a WRC, and it will never be popular in the modern world which thrives vainity and glamour. The sooner we accept these fact the better, then we can all move on, get ourselves (the true rally fans) out on the stages and enjoy the sport we love so much for what it is.

[rallye-vid]

I want one too!

I'm working at it so you can get the t-shirt at least in europe. Give me a day or two ;)

[makinen_fan]

I'm working at it so you can get the t-shirt at least in europe. Give me a day or two ;)

It should be declared the 'official' t-shirt of the forum :p

[rallye-vid]

Here we go!

http://i40.tinypic.com/2wpuiih.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/153v1up.jpg

Feel free to get it and show what we think:
The normal version: This is rally T-shirt from Zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com/this_is_rally_t_shirt-235418320419696860)
Sick dogs version: This is rally T-shirt from Zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com/this_is_rally_t_shirt-235209747396912722)

[dimviii]

Carlos Sainz to make rallycross debut in Barcelona X Games - Rallycross news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107427)

[Kielder]

Runner-up of what?

I wanted to say that he still can be the second of the championship, the next after the first, the vice-champion, the world number two :D . I was trying to be ironic, but it's obvious that I failed... :p
To sum up, as there is no fight for the title, it's good to see PG back :) .

[Rallyper]

Here we go!

http://i40.tinypic.com/2wpuiih.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/153v1up.jpg

Feel free to get it and show what we think: This is Rally T-Shirt from Zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com/this_is_rally_t_shirt-235663277719571833)

OK mate! I´ve ordered two. Will wear it in NORF. :cool:

[trickydicky]

I've seen all this stuff about how the results of rallies might now be determined on 'Power Stages' and an article in Autosport about how radical thinking is needed for the WRC to 'survive'; and I think to myself, why? A) Why if the result of a rally would be determined on one stage alone would you bother with the rest of them and B) Why is such radical, not to mention nonsensical, thought required to revive a series that has already been a massive success in the past? Common sense says to me, go back to basics, go back to what 'the people' liked and what was proven to be successful. If the marketing men at the big car companies say no, so be it, I don't see where that is a problem, so long as they don't stop making cars altogether. Purpose built rally cars are not needed, and in fact in my view are part of the problem. Make the rally's big, make them hard, make them at night, and have them in the places where people actually like them, i.e Europe and Africa (and Australia and New Zealand I suppose). As an example, competitors, particularly say Ford and Citroen, would run a mile if it was suggested to bring the Concentration Run back to the Monte Carlo rally, but as a interest raising episode I can't think of anything working much better. Think of all those towns the cars will drive through on the way there, all the people noticing them and either realising, or being told, why. That’s an extreme example, but it shows that shortening and compacting everything has its down falls, especially when with such garbage TV coverage live viewers should be considered gold dust.
When I think of rallying and "hmm, could all that stuff work now though, can you close such a large amount of roads and get away with it nowadays?", I think of cycling. In cycling it doesn't seem to be an issue to close roads around entire countries for three week periods. All the classic cycling races remain, and apart from the fact that the cyclists are using someone else's red blood cells and are full of EPO, are as they always were. So what's to stop rallying. The Monte Carlo Rally should be our sports Tour De France, the San Remo our Giro.
Also, during Sky Sports coverage of the Spanish Grand Prix at the weekend Martin Brundle was discussing in commentary about how the team principles had had a meeting re the sports future, its rules and governance etc and he said something along the lines of (I can't remember the direct quote) "Those really aren't the people to be making those decisions. They are hard wired to win and will make decisions for the good of their organisations, not the sport". I though, well said Martin, the people who run rallying could do well to keep that in mind next time they go cap in hand to Ford and Citroen.

[Kielder]

The crucial days are coming: World Rally Championship poised for crunch meeting over future format - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107435?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[trickydicky]

This doesn't bode well:

"TEAMS OPTIMISTICTeams are optimistic that the current discussions could be the breakthrough the WRC has craved.
M-Sport team principal Malcolm Wilson added: "The meetings I've had recently - including discussions with the consultant – have been the most positive I've ever had in this championship. We are getting somewhere now.

"These people have listened, they've taken their time, built up their knowledge and the feeling is that everything is now where it should be. I feel very confident about the future.""

[trickydicky]

This doesn't bode well:

"TEAMS OPTIMISTICTeams are optimistic that the current discussions could be the breakthrough the WRC has craved.
M-Sport team principal Malcolm Wilson added: "The meetings I've had recently - including discussions with the consultant – have been the most positive I've ever had in this championship. We are getting somewhere now.

"These people have listened, they've taken their time, built up their knowledge and the feeling is that everything is now where it should be. I feel very confident about the future.""

[EightGear]

This doesn't bode well:

"TEAMS OPTIMISTICTeams are optimistic that the current discussions could be the breakthrough the WRC has craved.
M-Sport team principal Malcolm Wilson added: "The meetings I've had recently - including discussions with the consultant – have been the most positive I've ever had in this championship. We are getting somewhere now.

"These people have listened, they've taken their time, built up their knowledge and the feeling is that everything is now where it should be. I feel very confident about the future.""

Why doesn't it? People keep crying about the stupid Power Stage idea but forget that is just 1 of (many?) more ideas. Maybe there are some formats the teams do like?

[Mintexmemory]

Here we go!

http://i40.tinypic.com/2wpuiih.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/153v1up.jpg

Feel free to get it and show what we think: This is Rally T-Shirt from Zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com/this_is_rally_t_shirt-235663277719571833)

Could you also make one in English? The second line should read "This is Rallying" or "This is a Rally" The word rally is either a noun (requiring a preposition) or the root of a verb. To create a noun for an activity from the verb (a gerund) the suffix 'ing' is required c.f run / running. Oh, and I see no mention of 'sick dogs' which I thought would have to be an essential on any official Rally Forum product ;)

[rallye-vid]

Sorry for my engrish :vader:

I have changed "this is rally" into "this is a rally" now and added also a special "sick dogs" forum edition ;)

The normal version: This is rally T-shirt from Zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com/this_is_rally_t_shirt-235418320419696860)
Sick dogs version: This is rally T-shirt from Zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com/this_is_rally_t_shirt-235209747396912722)

http://i41.tinypic.com/a5dhfd.jpg

I'm sorry @Rallyper that you got the rally without an "a" version.. But don't worry, i have the engrish version too..

@Mintexmemory - can you please change the zazzle link in my other post and in the quotes to the new version. Thanks.

[trickydicky]

Why doesn't it? People keep crying about the stupid Power Stage idea but forget that is just 1 of (many?) more ideas. Maybe there are some formats the teams do like?

The fact that the teams, and Malcolm Wilson in particular, like them is what I am worried about. They probably 'liked' every decision that has been taken regarding the sport since 1996; and look where that as got us.

[Rallyper]

Sorry for my engrish :vader:

I have changed "this is rally" into "this is a rally" now and added also a special "sick dogs" forum edition ;)

The normal version: This is rally T-shirt from Zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com/this_is_rally_t_shirt-235418320419696860)
Sick dogs version: This is rally T-shirt from Zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com/this_is_rally_t_shirt-235209747396912722)

http://i41.tinypic.com/a5dhfd.jpg

I'm sorry @Rallyper that you got the rally without an "a" version.. But don't worry, i have the engrish version too..

@Mintexmemory - can you please change the zazzle link in my other post and in the quotes to the new version. Thanks.

You are allowed to change if you can. If so make it the "sick dog" version. Or else it´s good as it is. We´ll recognize us anyway...

[OldF]

….and not a playmobil playground for sick dogs driving like cheeps in a lady cup!

Did I forget something?

[dimviii]

you forget the scared dogs.

[makinen_fan]

what about the tourist drivers ?

[OldF]

I knew I forgot something.


Thanks. :)

[Mintexmemory]

Well the last few posts demonstrate why I enjoy this forum so much. I will be buying a shirt to wear at Rally Deutschland (slightly too cold for WRGB ;) )

[makinen_fan]

Well the last few posts demonstrate why I enjoy this forum so much. I will be buying a shirt to wear at Rally Deutschland (slightly too cold for WRGB ;) )

I will get an XXXXL and wear it on top of flecce/jackets/waterproofs in Rally GB :p

[Rallyper]

Well the last few posts demonstrate why I enjoy this forum so much. I will be buying a shirt to wear at Rally Deutschland (slightly too cold for WRGB ;) )

Where are you N.O.T. ? Please come back!

[Prisoner Monkeys]

This article makes it pretty clear that the whole "power stage decides the outcome of the rally" is just one option that is being considered:

http://www.atosport.com.news/report.php/id/107435/

For insteance, they're also looking at running a power stage every day.

[Mintexmemory]

@ rallye-vid I've altered the original t-shirt links and I've ordered my 'sick dogs' example !! See you in Trier!

[Mintexmemory]

This article makes it pretty clear that the whole "power stage decides the outcome of the rally" is just one option that is being considered:

http://www.atosport.com.news/report.php/id/107435/

For insteance, they're also looking at running a power stage every day.

The power stage every day might work well if the core points for a win were 16 then 3 point per PS (3 held in the event). It would mean that the winner would still have to step up and not just cruise if getting a lead before halfway. Also super rally means a retirement on day 1 could still end up in say 7th place and get max PS on day 2 and 3.

[A.F.F.]

Where are you N.O.T. ? Please come back!

Why? Eventually mousefarts just fade away.

[tfp]

Why? Eventually mousefarts just fade away.

But where do the lady boys go? :p

[Sulland]

If they need to have powestages at all, pls make a powerstage champioship within the championship. If a driver averages 2 points over a season on PSes, that could decide a championship, and that is not right!
WRC is sprintrally enough, the endurance and tachtical part is more or less gone, but need to be added again.
but a powerstage championship could be nice.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Changes for the Rally Australia route:

World Rally Championship - News - Rally Australia changes revealed (http://www.wrc.com/news/rally-australia-changes-revealed/?fid=18567)

A few new stages have been added while others get dropped, two get merged and Bucca and Shipmans get merged. The whole route is run within 60km of the service park, and from the sounds of things, is highly accessible.

I used to live pretty close to Coffs Harbour (though I was closer to Tweed Heads), and while I don't know the exact roads that are being used, I do have a general sense of them, and so I think this route is actually pretty decent. If they were willing to go further west, there's some great stuff in the mountains on the road to Armidale - particularly around Styx River and Dorrigo - but it's pretty good. I definately welcome the changes to Shipmans and Bucca; I thought they were just a little too long in 2011.

[6789]

Changes for the Rally Australia route:

World Rally Championship - News - Rally Australia changes revealed (http://www.wrc.com/news/rally-australia-changes-revealed/?fid=18567)

A few new stages have been added while others get dropped, two get merged and Bucca and Shipmans get merged. The whole route is run within 60km of the service park, and from the sounds of things, is highly accessible.

I used to live pretty close to Coffs Harbour (though I was closer to Tweed Heads), and while I don't know the exact roads that are being used, I do have a general sense of them, and so I think this route is actually pretty decent. If they were willing to go further west, there's some great stuff in the mountains on the road to Armidale - particularly around Styx River and Dorrigo - but it's pretty good. I definately welcome the changes to Shipmans and Bucca; I thought they were just a little too long in 2011.

Yeah I'm from Armidale and the Styx forrest would be amazing! The roads are over grown now due to the National Parks service restricting access :(

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Heh, I went to university in Armidale.

I always thought this, on the Armidale-Kempsey Road, would make for an awesome stage:

gmap-pedometer.com (http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5934621)

[makinen_fan]

Colin Clark tweeted earlier today that the WRC calendar is likely to include 12 rounds including China. Most likely is NZ and Italy to be removed. Also French round likely to be back in Corsica

[rallyfiend]

Colin Clark tweeted earlier today that the WRC calendar is likely to include 12 rounds including China. Most likely is NZ and Italy to be removed.

I'm no mathematician, but given that NZ wasn't on the calendar this year, doesn't that mean another event needs to get dumped as well?

13 this year, add China, means 2 need to go.....

[Vaggelis27]

Hope not to remove Acropolis...

[makinen_fan]

@rallyfiend I know, but that's all the info coming in so far...
Hopefully we are going to be faced by more surprises when the calendar is signed by the FIA, Acropolis is one of the classics and it HAS to stay

[mousti]

WRC Academy Fiesta's will drive now with with bio feul

FIA Junior WRC Championship | Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (http://www.fia.com/fia-junior-wrc-championship-0?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[Mintexmemory]

I'm no mathematician, but given that NZ wasn't on the calendar this year, doesn't that mean another event needs to get dumped as well?

13 this year, add China, means 2 need to go.....
Well after 2012 several sources have indicated the WRGB is at the last chance saloon. However November timing, improved route, (hopefully) bigger crowds and WRC2/3 may still be open should provide a great event, However the lack of 5 star overnight accommodation in North Wales (expect La Mouton to be in an exclusive country spa hotel) might be a problem for the hangers-on.

[A FONDO]

WRC Academy Fiesta's will drive now with with bio feul

FIA Junior WRC Championship | Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (http://www.fia.com/fia-junior-wrc-championship-0?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Hope the price for this blended fuel will not be unreal like the old one, because it would mean they have changed nothing from competitors's view.

[Vaggelis27]

Will the performance of Fiesta change with this fuel?

[Mirek]

Yes, engine running on E85 or alike is more powerful, I believe mainly because of high percentage of oxygen in the fuel which allows using richer mixture. Of course the fuel consumption grows a lot as well.

[mousti]

That's the reason why Dutch drivers are fond of this, GEM Fuel is also partnered with two Dutch Manufacturers.

[Vaggelis27]

GEM Fuel for Junior World Rally Championship (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/1352-gem-fuel-for-junior-world-rally-championship)

[rallyfun]

Colin Clark tweeted earlier today that the WRC calendar is likely to include 12 rounds including China. Most likely is NZ and Italy to be removed. Also French round likely to be back in Corsica

Lots of rumors about that, recently I read that China is not an option any more as they would have to drive 1800km from Pekin/Beijing which could be logistic nightmare. They speculated about Russia or Poland rather than Brasil.

[Vaggelis27]

I learnt that brazil wants to be in 2014 calendar and the most possible rounds to remove will be Acropolis rally or rally de Sardegna

[stefanvv]

Hope not to remove Acropolis...

I hope not also. This is the home Rally for Bulgarians :)

[Vaggelis27]

I hope not also. This is the home Rally for Bulgarians :)

Yes!I don't believe that our rally will be removed..Have u come ever stefan?

[stefanvv]

Yes!I don't believe that our rally will be removed..Have u come ever stefan?

Not so far, this year I will :)

[Vaggelis27]

Not so far, this year I will :)

Really?Nice.Have u organise your programm?

[Red bull]

Tech Talk: Inside Carlos Sainz CARLOS SAINZ RALLY CROSS VW POLO. (http://www.redbull.com/en/motorsports/offroad/stories/1331591280075/tech-talk-inside-carlos-sainz-s-rallycross-car)

[stefanvv]

Really?Nice.Have u organise your programm?

Not yet, we'll be some fellas, I'm counting on them, they have some visits already

[Vaggelis27]

Not yet, we'll be some fellas, I'm counting on them, they have some visits already

When u will come?Will u stay in Loutraki???

[stefanvv]

When u will come?Will u stay in Loutraki???

We plan to be there for the shakedown, setting later in camp near Loutraki, probably we'll visit the service park on some ocasions, so yes

[Vaggelis27]

We plan to be there for the shakedown, setting later in camp near Loutraki, probably we'll visit the service park on some ocasions, so yes

Nice!Acropolis Rally 2011 Shakedown - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K4gEVJWMM0) I will be there on shakedown!

[vino_93]

Colin Clark tweeted earlier today that the WRC calendar is likely to include 12 rounds including China. Most likely is NZ and Italy to be removed. Also French round likely to be back in Corsica
I'd like to know how French round can come back in Corsica... the local government had to put monney for this, and for the moment, it's clearly a "no".
Moreover Alsace has a contrat for 2014 ;)

[stefanvv]

Nice!Acropolis Rally 2011 Shakedown - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K4gEVJWMM0) I will be there on shakedown!

Great, is it nice place? I see there are lot of people, perhaps it is. But should not spam this thread anyway, there is dedicated one

[Vaggelis27]

Great, is it nice place? I see there are lot of people, perhaps it is. But should not spam this thread anyway, there is dedicated one

Maybe the best place of the stage!You can see video.It was the same in 2009 and 2011

[Nelly]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but did anyone hear any news on the route for Rally Catalunya this year, any new stages etc? It's all very quiet on the site!

[Mintexmemory]

Nice!Acropolis Rally 2011 Shakedown - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K4gEVJWMM0) I will be there on shakedown!

You guys better agree how to recognise each other as you are not likely to get a 'This is a Rally' t-shirt delivered in time!!

[Vaggelis27]

You guys better agree how to recognise each other as you are not likely to get a 'This is a Rally' t-shirt delivered in time!!
What T-shirt???

[stefanvv]

What T-shirt???

I guess he means the famous recently anti FIA t-shirt designed by rally-vid to protest against PS changes

[stefanvv]

I guess he means the famous recently anti FIA t-shirt designed by rally-vid to protest against PS changes

Frankly I have no idea what T-shirt I will wear, but I'll be with entirely black AUDI 100 with lowered suspension and broken front bumber

[Vaggelis27]

Frankly I have no idea what T-shirt I will wear, but I'll be with entirely black AUDI 100 with lowered suspension and broken front bumber
Haha they will be there so many cars.I will be with my grandfather's old Nissan Sunny and it's gold. :eek: About the T-shirt maybe i will wear Petter Solberg...

[rallye-vid]

What T-shirt???


Here you go!: http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/128975-%5Bwrc%5D-news-rumours-part-ii-663.html#post1132335

[EightGear]

Kris Meeke posted this on twitter: Testing in Alsace. Just been given a bottle of @Petter_Solberg wine! Made from the grapes at ‘his’ corner in 2012..

http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads6/519b7dc4c3f2e/519b7dc4be55a-solbergwine.png

[dimviii]

lolololol!!

[stefanvv]

Kris Meeke posted this on twitter: Testing in Alsace. Just been given a bottle of @Petter_Solberg wine! Made from the grapes at ‘his’ corner in 2012..

Why is that look :D

[Vaggelis27]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/942799_254406208032419_147531531_n.jpg

[rallyfiend]

Die neue "WRC PROMOTER GmbH"*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/05/21/die-neue-wrc-promoter-gmbh/index.html)

So, the new promoter company actually has a company.

How many months has it been....?

[Motorsportfun]

Die neue "WRC PROMOTER GmbH"*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/05/21/die-neue-wrc-promoter-gmbh/index.html)

So, the new promoter company actually has a company.

How many months has it been....?

In an interview Ciesla released to Italian magazine Rally Emotion, he said they were already working like the company. Today's announcement is just a juridical thing...

[Jordib]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but did anyone hear any news on the route for Rally Catalunya this year, any new stages etc? It's all very quiet on the site!

I've been told about some kind of timetable changes in this years rally, but still it's not official or concrete for now. These changes are pending verification by FIA.

[Kielder]

I've been told about some kind of timetable changes in this years rally, but still it's not official or concrete for now. These changes are pending verification by FIA.

http://www.almrally.ru/imagelib/WRC/Raznoe/2011/2011_11_November/2011_11_28_Meeke_1.jpg

:D

[WRCfan]

Just hearing rumours that Rally NZ might be cut in order to fit China in and shrink calendar down to 12 rounds. What is wrong with the FIA if this is actually being considered? The sport will end up next in a carpark in Malaysia with officials moving cones for 'each special stage'?

[rallyfun]

Just hearing rumours that Rally NZ might be cut in order to fit China in and shrink calendar down to 12 rounds. What is wrong with the FIA if this is actually being considered? The sport will end up next in a carpark in Malaysia with officials moving cones for 'each special stage'?

They lost the plot long time ago. Each new idea is more ridiculous than previous one, just to name some of them:timing by SIT, withdraw Eurosport etc.

[rallye-vid]

K. Block says rallycross is better than rally... Go home dude!

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2013%2F05%2F22%2Fblock-rallye-ist-zu-kompliziert%2Findex.html)

[MJW]

Just hearing rumours that Rally NZ might be cut in order to fit China in and shrink calendar down to 12 rounds. What is wrong with the FIA if this is actually being considered? The sport will end up next in a carpark in Malaysia with officials moving cones for 'each special stage'?
Shh, dont tell them! You could probably get a job at RedBull Sportsman WRC or whatever they are called now with ideas like that. Meanwhile back in rallying I hear preparation companies are flat out for this November's Historic Safari.

[Vaggelis27]

#WRC @RallycrossRX Ogier could be drive Loheac round with Polo RX @vwrallytheworld @VolkswagenRally

[Mirek]

#WRC @RallycrossRX Ogier could be drive Loheac round with Polo RX @vwrallytheworld @VolkswagenRally

Sounds like Ogier has a serious problem with Loeb chasing him in every possible way although still saying how much he doesn't care about him...

[Mintexmemory]

Sounds like Ogier has a serious problem with Loeb chasing him in every possible way although still saying how much he doesn't care about him...

Let's face it they are the only show in town. Once you have Loeb signed up the next step for any organisermust always be; " if we dangle an obscene amount of cash do you think we'll sign up Ogier too? " I doubt anyone would turn down the money no matter how the detractors might view it.

[stefanvv]

Sounds like Ogier has a serious problem with Loeb chasing him in every possible way although still saying how much he doesn't care about him...

One thing is certain - Loeb is not concern for the WDC

[Bartolbia84]

Positive closing of entries, after the 50 starters (55-60 crews).
The final ceremony will be in the municipality of Olbia, is no longer in Porto Cervo as indicated, while Friday will be ON LINE the rally guide for viewers.

[Vaggelis27]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/485560_545662448824229_1838263052_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/481578_545662442157563_271822238_n.jpg

[Plan9]

They lost the plot long time ago. Each new idea is more ridiculous than previous one, just to name some of them:timing by SIT, withdraw Eurosport etc.

I just hope we don't have the situation where the whole rally is decided by the powerstage. The previous 3 days worth of stages would be totally redundant.

Also I don't get why the series does not have a rights holder to all the events, coverage is divided between event oragnizers. One of the effects of this is that we don't get season highlights DVDs anymore.

Why can't the FIA understand that you cannot really change the WRC too much and just leave it alone?

[Motorsportfun]

I just hope we don't have the situation where the whole rally is decided by the powerstage. The previous 3 days worth of stages would be totally redundant.

Also I don't get why the series does not have a rights holder to all the events, coverage is divided between event oragnizers. One of the effects of this is that we don't get season highlights DVDs anymore.

Why can't the FIA understand that you cannot really change the WRC too much and just leave it alone?

That was a 2012 problem, as it wasn't a unique Global Promoter, now with WRC Promoter GmbH would be fine enough...

[RAS007]

I've been told about some kind of timetable changes in this years rally, but still it's not official or concrete for now. These changes are pending verification by FIA.

Yes, it has been reduced to 4 stages (2 stages, each run twice), for a total of 53 competitive stage miles. Super Rally rules will apply in a new way. For the first time, a driver can only be declared the winner of the event if they have already crashed or retired, and rejoined under Super Rally rules. Reduced points will be awarded to those drivers who manage to complete the gruelling 53 mile rally without crashing or retiring.

[Franky]

RAS007, you're scary

[Kielder]

Yes, it has been reduced to 4 stages (2 stages, each run twice), for a total of 53 competitive stage miles. Super Rally rules will apply in a new way. For the first time, a driver can only be declared the winner of the event if they have already crashed or retired, and rejoined under Super Rally rules. Reduced points will be awarded to those drivers who manage to complete the gruelling 53 mile rally without crashing or retiring.

Initially, I thought the cars would have to do 20 "donuts" at Riudecanyes' roundabout :D (a "donut" in that place was the "big" innovation of last year's edition :o hplease :) .
As I posted before with an image, a change is that the cars will run by night (on Friday, I can add). However, that's not what needs FIA's approval ;) .

[WRCfan]

We need approval of a 'conditions fit for rally' legislation, which states that whether you have a bottomless wallet it doesn't matter. If the roads make for less of a spectacle than flies mating you are not even considered for a round. Possible hostile takeover of the FIA by the forum members? We would surely do a better job with our beloved sport!

[Vaggelis27]

R5 Ford Fiesta to make WRC debut in Finland with Elfyn Evans - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107627) Evans in Finland with r5

[Mirek]

What's with Matt's program? Will he drive something too?

[stefanvv]

What's with Matt's program? Will he drive something too?

I think he's in the entry list for Sardegnia

[Sulland]

The plan is that Eivind Brynildsen also will debut the DMack Fiesta R5 in Finland.

[Eli]

WRC Commission in Geneva-does anybody know anything new about there meeting yesterday???

[Kielder]

http://i41.tinypic.com/20s83mr.png

[Bartolbia84]

Wilson not start Sardinia WRC

[Motorsportfun]

Finally the Spectators Guide is online! Check it out here: Rally Italia Sardegna | Rally news, notizie sui rally, rallye, WRC, FIA, Ford, Mini, Citroen, Skoda, Volkswagen (http://www.rallyitaliasardegna.com/ing/the-rally/guide-to-ss/)

[noel157]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally 3h
Hearing from a very well placed source that Ott Tanak will do at least one WRC round this year. Probably Finland and probably in a Ford WRC
Collapse Reply Retweet Favorite More

[Kielder]

Say Monegasque...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLa-AXUCIAE0_8Z.jpg:large

[Barreis]

2014 WRC calendar set to be confirmed in June - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107755)

[Plan9]

Hopefully NZ can keep its place on the calendar next year.

[spiderem]

I don't know if it has been said before or if it is in the right topic, but IMO i wouldn't be surprised to see Ogier (and maybe VW) to do only few seasons in WRC (2-3 max). As ogier is such a competetiv person, if the challenge is not in WRC he will be looking at doing something else, and with VW group he has loads of possibility to do so... and unfortunately i don't see anybody challenging him this season or the next one for sure in rally... So my bet is on 2 world championship title for mr Ogier and then move on, next challenge!

[Rallyper]

I don't know if it has been said before or if it is in the right topic, but IMO i wouldn't be surprised to see Ogier (and maybe VW) to do only few seasons in WRC (2-3 max). As ogier is such a competetiv person, if the challenge is not in WRC he will be looking at doing something else, and with VW group he has loads of possibility to do so... and unfortunately i don't see anybody challenging him this season or the next one for sure in rally... So my bet is on 2 world championship title for mr Ogier and then move on, next challenge!

But they did quite many Paris-Dakar without much competition from other factorys, didn´t they? However I think there´s some truth in what you say. Does even more of job to make new factories into WRC. Let´s hope Hyundai will be sucessful.

[MJW]

I don't know if it has been said before or if it is in the right topic, but IMO i wouldn't be surprised to see Ogier (and maybe VW) to do only few seasons in WRC (2-3 max). As ogier is such a competetiv person, if the challenge is not in WRC he will be looking at doing something else, and with VW group he has loads of possibility to do so... and unfortunately i don't see anybody challenging him this season or the next one for sure in rally... So my bet is on 2 world championship title for mr Ogier and then move on, next challenge!


Oh I dont know, I think within the next six months we will have an exciting 10 year plan for the future of the WRC and Seb Ogier will be challenged by the likes of Bucky, Travis, Pink's husband, Psy in a Hyundai etc - winner of WRC will be the one who has the most tattos and piercings on the power stage or awarded style marks. Sorry giving up and cyncisms kicking in big time now.

[vino_93]

Stéphane Consani will do Sardinia and France in Citroën Top Driver Trophy.
He had difficulty to find monney at the beginning of the season to do it, so he started the 208 Rally Cup in France. With Pirelli France as sponsor, he'd like to do something (because he can't do the 208Cup with it). So he find the monney to start two rounds in CTD.
If his race in Italy is good, he will extend his program. He will race with Delta Racing, alongside Bouffier.

[EightGear]

He won't continue in the 208 cup?

[vino_93]

for the moment, I think he'll continue.
But as his beginning of season is not good, if he is doing good thing in CTD, he may stop to focus his monney on CTD ;)

[Barreis]

Volkswagen confident handbrake problem is now fixed - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107757)

[Kielder]

Now I can reveal that the next Rally Catalunya will have a night leg on tarmac on Friday. What is more, it's expected that this first leg start on the early morning. Second one will be run on Saturday as well on tarmac. On Sunday, the teams will have to change their specifications to run on gravel.

[MartijnS]

Nice dessert with the gravel on Sunday! :D

[Plan9]

I don't know if it has been said before or if it is in the right topic, but IMO i wouldn't be surprised to see Ogier (and maybe VW) to do only few seasons in WRC (2-3 max). As ogier is such a competetiv person, if the challenge is not in WRC he will be looking at doing something else, and with VW group he has loads of possibility to do so... and unfortunately i don't see anybody challenging him this season or the next one for sure in rally... So my bet is on 2 world championship title for mr Ogier and then move on, next challenge!

I think you are right. I would not be surprised to see them going into F1 after dominating WRC for a few seasons. I would almost wager they will follow Toyota's idea of growing from stage rallying into a full on F1 operation.

Still on VW; why have they chosen not to make the Polo available to customers?

[giedriusr]

Say Monegasque...



Cute

[makinen_fan]

Very interesting intreviews with the team principals concerning the 2014 season and changes:
World Rally Championship - Fanzone - Podcasts - Capito on possible WRC changes (http://www.wrc.com/fanzone/podcasts/capito-on-possible-wrc-changes/?fid=18635)
World Rally Championship - Fanzone - Podcasts - Matton considers possible WRC changes (http://www.wrc.com/fanzone/podcasts/matton-considers-possible-wrc-changes/?fid=18633)
World Rally Championship - Fanzone - Podcasts - Wilson on possible changes to WRC (http://www.wrc.com/fanzone/podcasts/wilson-on-possible-changes-to-wrc/?fid=18631)

[Franky]

Capito talks as complicated as he says rallying is to ordinary people.

[OldF]

I just wonder if an Average Joe / Sue goes watching a rally, does he / she really care about who’s leading the rally or who is going to win it.

Imo a random spectator only goes watching a rally as an occasional adventure if it is close, have an easy access, some happenings and a way of spending a relaxed Saturday or Sunday afternoon.

[Franky]

Imo a random spectator only goes watching a rally as an occasional adventure if it is close, have an easy access, some happenings and a way of spending a relaxed Saturday or Sunday afternoon.

You couldn't be more correct. When I and my brother spectated the South-Estonian Winter rally some local spectator asked where we are from. And when he heard that we came from the other side of the country, he managed to mutter only 'crazy'. The average Joe is a local from the nearby area. A rally fan is some lunatic who is willing to travel half a globe to see cars drive on some roads.

[Hartusvuori]

A rally fan is some lunatic who is willing to travel half a globe to see cars drive on some roads.

And don't I love to be a rally fan lunatic. Exactly same kind of responses we got in IRC Barum couple of years ago, and it's understandable too. But if some rally has the most amazing roads and I want to and can get to see it, I don't mind the travel. Again, rallying is so much more than just cars passing by fast.

[Rallyper]

There must be a lot of average Joes/Sues everywhere, because of the crowds attending the WRC events.

But one thing is sure: taking away the very foundation of rallying in favour of spectacular new rules, wouldn´t help more average Joes to go watching.

[Kielder]

The two European events which maybe won't be included on the 2014 calendar are Acropolis and Sardegna. They need to pay €200,000 extra to remain on the WRC.

[Vaggelis27]

The two European events which maybe won't be included on the 2014 calendar are Acropolis and Sardegna. They need to pay €200,000 extra to remain on the WRC.
Why 200,000 extra?

[DIMI44]

200.000 euros;.....extra;.......peanuts......We have the answer ......more taxes........

[MartijnS]

Big shame if they would be out :(

[Franky]

What's the "membership" fee of being a WRC event anyway?

[Rallyper]

So what do the organizer get for the extra 200 kEuros? Don´t expect anything but higher sallarys for M Todt and co.

(In Sweden it´s rumours about Rally Sweden have to pay much more to be organizer in the future - correspondending to the news above)

[Kielder]

I believe that the FIA are putting pressure on the weakest events. Acropolis & Sardegna lost this year one day of competition because, as we all know, the economies of these countries aren't the wealthiest ones. Portugal, the other event that had to cut one leg, maybe pulled it out the fire when they started negociating going back to the North. In fact, it seems that Greek organisation follows a similar path: they've announced some changes for 2014 as the return to the Olympic Stadium and taking next year's event to completely new roads. However, the FIA won't forget the bar of 200,000 euros. I really hope the Acropolis jumps over it :) .

[Kielder]

All three factory WRC teams are expected to enter the Cambrian Rally in October. For instance, Wilson said that they'd probably send Mads down there to do it.

[tolis]

In fact, it seems that Greek organisation follows a similar path: they've announced some changes for 2014 as the return to the Olympic Stadium and taking next year's event to completely new roads. However, the FIA won't forget the bar of 200,000 euros. I really hope the Acropolis jumps over it :) .

Where did you see these announcements?

[Kielder]

Where did you see these announcements?

Rally director Pavlos Athanassoulas said it to MN. As an one-off, the rally will return to the stadium to help celebrate the 60th running of the event. They're planning a SSS & the ceremonial start at the venue. I believe this would be a way to tackle the amount FIA has asked to pay because he told that they expect to fit the stadium with 63,000 fans charging 15 euros (so they'll earn almost one million). In addition, they want to persuade Mouton to drive an Audi quattro and bring Tommi Mäkinen over.
On the other hand, the organisers have signed a new three-year agreement with the south Peloponnese region to take Acropolis to new stages. They will be back to three full days too.
Maybe they're putting the cart before the horse...

[Vaggelis27]

Rally director Pavlos Athanassoulas said it to MN. As an one-off, the rally will return to the stadium to help celebrate the 60th running of the event. They're planning a SSS & the ceremonial start at the venue. I believe this would be a way to tackle the amount FIA has asked to pay because he told that they expect to fit the stadium with 63,000 fans charging 15 euros (so they'll earn almost one million). In addition, they want to persuade Mouton to drive an Audi quattro and bring Tommi Mäkinen over.
On the other hand, the organisers have signed a new three-year agreement with the south Peloponnese region to take Acropolis to new stages. They will be back to three full days too.
Maybe they're putting the cart before the horse...

You are right!And pavlos said that is very unlikely to lost Acropolis for next year

[Kielder]

You are right!And pavlos said that is very unlikely to lost Acropolis for next year

He said they have no assurances from the FIA or from the promoter for 2014, but he doesn't think any rally has...

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I believe that the FIA are putting pressure on the weakest events. Acropolis & Sardegna lost this year one day of competition because, as we all know, the economies of these countries aren't the wealthiest ones. Portugal, the other event that had to cut one leg, maybe pulled it out the fire when they started negociating going back to the North. In fact, it seems that Greek organisation follows a similar path: they've announced some changes for 2014 as the return to the Olympic Stadium and taking next year's event to completely new roads. However, the FIA won't forget the bar of 200,000 euros. I really hope the Acropolis jumps over it :) .
Can you really blame them?

Everyone complains that rallying to being damaged by the way "historic" events are being dropped in favour of new rallies with no "heritage" (whatever the hell that means). But honestly, if the alternative is to keep that "historic" event on the calendar and let the organisers run a sub-standard event simply because of that event's "heritage", then I think that's just going to do more damage than dropping it outright.

[rallye-vid]

Skoda is testing a 1,6l turbo engine: Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fint%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2013%2F06%2F06%2Fskoda-testet-turbo-prototyp%2Findex.html)