[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[AlfaWRC]

Your defending of Mikko against genuine criticisms wouldn't have to do anything with the link in your sig would it?

No for sure not... I am a fan of JML as well.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Yes,in the current points system "slow" and steady wins the race,and it is just the way it is.
If the points were 10-2-1 for the first 3 maybe JML would be better (even though he would still crash).
But nobody would be better than Loeb :D

[Daniel]

Yes,in the current points system "slow" and steady wins the race,and it is just the way it is.
If the points were 10-2-1 for the first 3 maybe JML would be better (even though he would still crash).
But nobody would be better than Loeb :D

But Mikko never really showed consistent signs of being anything but slow and steady. He's a 2nd driver who is doing 1st driver duties at the moment.

[RS]

But Mikko never really showed consistent signs of being anything but slow and steady. He's a 2nd driver who is doing 1st driver duties at the moment.

I agree with that.

Mikko is a good 1st driver for a lesser team or a good 2nd driver for a top team, a bit of a "Gardemeister" maybe.

The only reason he stayed in contention for this years title so long is because of the dodgy points system.

To be fair, he did a good job of stepping into Marcus' shoes and was probably the 2nd best driver out there this year, but I expect JML to overtake him eventually if he improves his reliability.

[urabus-denoS2000]

The only reason he stayed in contention for this years title so long is because of the dodgy points system.



And team orders ;)

[Zes]

But Mikko never really showed consistent signs of being anything but slow and steady. He's a 2nd driver who is doing 1st driver duties at the moment.

Like all the others except Loeb. There is only one real top driver at the moment and a bunch of 2nd drivers. Without Loeb Mikko would be number one and nobody would complain him to be slow but a great driver who knows when to push and when to bring it home safely.

Just as Marcus would have been known as a great tarmac driver, if Seb would have continued his gymnastics career a bit longer :p :

[Kimachu]

Regarding Mikko, let me quote the man himself:
(from his blog at mtv3, http://blogit.mtv3.fi/kaasujalka/ )

"It's of course important to be steady, but I need to get more wins too. Next season I'm going for victories more boldly, perhaps even with a bit of risk. I don't mean McRae-like win-or-crash style, but I'll be seeking victories more than previously. That's what the championship seems to require."


Translation by me :)

[A.F.F.]

Loeb doesn't count. Should he not be in the serie, Mikko would be world champion and again next year. Cry and weep for that but it's true. :mark:

However, Loeb is in WRC and therefore our whole image of the sport is twisted. New talents are loser if they do not win their first rally and even that is not enough. That particukar young talent should win every stage too. Maybe then he would get the respect of our beloved and well experienced rally forum.

[Salist]

Urmo Aava expected to drive a Ford Focus in the 2009 WRC

Source: http://www.rallybuzz.com/aava-ford-focus-2009/

[Tom206wrc]

Can we expect big news from Petter this evening, as he's apparently in meeting with Citroën and Ford(according to norwegian media) :confused:

[Barreis]

Duval is a waste of space totally........Gronholm is a master!!

Don't know about that.. Who was leading in Germany in Xsara infront of Loeb's c4? You must find somebody who can do that.. Also has one win and Sordo doesn't..

[StevieWonder]

If Malcolm wilson really wanted to win events and championship's he would have Petter in the BP team and move Hirvonen to stobarts as he will never get any better than the 9/10th's driver he is now!!!


and anybody out there, who can promise, that petter will win some rallies and moreober the championship next year, if he will drive a focus ???
how can anybody say that ???
same for the statement, that atkinson can fight with loeb in a C4 ?

only a dream (and maybe bulls..t) !!!

[Daniel]

Don't know about that.. Who was leading in Germany in Xsara infront of Loeb's c4? You must find somebody who can do that.. Also has one win and Sordo doesn't..

Yeah I was there in Perth when Duval won. What a classic event :laugh: Solberg, Gronholm and Loeb were all out and Duval just inherited the lead. But whatever dress it up as if he's a champion, it makes no difference for me. I know deep down that Duval is a good tarmac driver at best and a liability on gravel.

[Daniel]

and anybody out there, who can promise, that petter will win some rallies and moreober the championship next year, if he will drive a focus ???
how can anybody say that ???
same for the statement, that atkinson can fight with loeb in a C4 ?

only a dream (and maybe bulls..t) !!!

Well I seem to remember Petter winning rallies when he had a top car before. So it's not impossible that he will win rallies given a top spec car again :rolleyes:

You know it's possible that Loeb will not win an event next year. Doesn't mean it's probable.

[Barreis]

Yeah I was there in Perth when Duval won. What a classic event :laugh: Solberg, Gronholm and Loeb were all out and Duval just inherited the lead. But whatever dress it up as if he's a champion, it makes no difference for me. I know deep down that Duval is a good tarmac driver at best and a liability on gravel.

Very bad moments for McRae/Grist/Škoda..

[Daniel]

Very bad moments for McRae/Grist/Škoda..

The Fabia was never going to win though. Although with Duval you never know do you? Hence why he's never going to occupy a proper works seat again :)

[grugsticles]

Very bad moments for McRae/Grist/Škoda..
Ditto!
I dunno if it was just me seeing a WRCar live for the first time or if it was some McRae magic, but that Skoda seemed to grow some balls for Rally Australia 2005.

[MJW]

Skoda was not that "far off" if the Colin and R.E.D. / Prodrive option had been taken up rather than the Schwarz /Red Bull management deal I reckon it could have been a good car. History that never happened.......... sadly.

[MJW]

Skoda didn't lack budget, they just lacked that special ingredient, oh and they were held back by Germanic management styles, reminiscent of Roland Gumpert and his Audi's - really showing my age tonight by mentioning Herr Gumpert!!!

[Tomi]

Skoda was not that "far off" if the Colin and R.E.D. / Prodrive option had been taken up rather than the Schwarz /Red Bull management deal I reckon it could have been a good car. History that never happened.......... sadly.

Maybe so, it was like a bad joke, now later on when have read and heard more things about how the team was run, im not sure if one should laugh or cry. For instance first time they did have people from Michelin present at tyre tests was when colin did drive, real WRC teams did have at every tyre test.

[Barreis]

Skoda was not that "far off" if the Colin and R.E.D. / Prodrive option had been taken up rather than the Schwarz /Red Bull management deal I reckon it could have been a good car. History that never happened.......... sadly.

Yeah, the only problem was that 35 millions (euros)per season D. Richards wanted for winning car..

[ste898]

and anybody out there, who can promise, that petter will win some rallies and moreober the championship next year, if he will drive a focus ???
how can anybody say that ???
same for the statement, that atkinson can fight with loeb in a C4 ?

only a dream (and maybe bulls..t) !!!

I would say petter will win rallies next year as he will bein a top car whatever car he drives, and its been a few years since he has had a top car.

[ste898]

You are a real comedian my friend....

Sorry I dont understand how am I a comedian?

[Tom206wrc]

I would say petter will win rallies next year as he will bein a top car whatever car he drives, and its been a few years since he has had a top car.


Except if he chose to go in the ADAPTA Subaru team of Mads Östberg... :p :

[ste898]

Except if he chose to go in the ADAPTA Subaru team of Mads Östberg... :p :

Yes tom very true....lets hope he does'ntgo that route

[MJW]

Yeah, the only problem was that 35 millions (euros)per season D. Richards wanted for winning car..
I dont like talking money on a public forum, but believe me Skoda was not short of money, if they spent €35m with DR that would have been a saving of €several m from what I was told they were spending (in house)

[Gard]

No, Petter probably had to turn down the Adapta deal. Adapta has the deal with Prodrive and the Subaru option for Petter was with backing from Subaru Japan. That would be a strange setup. SWRT/Prodrive under Adapta banner.

Petter came with some hints on forming his own team today

[Mirek]

MJW: Now with new management in Škoda Motorsport and new S2000 we just hope better das are comming...

But hey, there are still few Fabias able of some good national results. Let's wait for Eugene Donnelly :)

[jparker]

Loeb doesn't count. Should he not be in the serie, Mikko would be world champion and again next year. Cry and weep for that but it's true. :mark:
Of course it's true. When you think of it, without Loeb the only guy Hirvonen is competing against is Sordo. The rest were clowns covering for him, and 2 teams with crap cars. Becoming champ in this situation is not such a big deal.

[StevieWonder]

and please do not forget, that grönholm also had his chances, but missed!

loeb is too perfect, but hopefully they can beat him in 2009, when gravel rulez !!!

[RS]

and please do not forget, that grönholm also had his chances, but missed!

loeb is too perfect, but hopefully they can beat him in 2009, when gravel rulez !!!

Maybe, but Loeb won 11 of 15 rounds this year including Finland!

The other guys will have to improve if they want the title.

[RS]

I dont like talking money on a public forum, but believe me Skoda was not short of money, if they spent €35m with DR that would have been a saving of €several m from what I was told they were spending (in house)

Hmmm, if they had that much money then why did they hire such unproven drivers? Internal pressures maybe...

Anyhow, it is funny how things started to happen when Colin arrived. Maybe the driver needs a bit of gravitas in order to get things done.

As we have discussed many times before on this board, I think the Fabia was never a bad car (although not a winner), but a combination of poor management/engineering and slow drivers was the problem.

This was pretty much proven in 2006 and 2007 when the car was in the private hands of CRT and First Motorsport when it scored many points and even stage wins with Duval and Kopecky - and the 'old Skoda Motorsport' at Red Bull were still rubbish.

[Barreis]

Hmmm, if they had that much money then why did they hire such unproven drivers? Internal pressures maybe...

Anyhow, it is funny how things started to happen when Colin arrived. Maybe the driver needs a bit of gravitas in order to get things done.

As we have discussed many times before on this board, I think the Fabia was never a bad car (although not a winner), but a combination of poor management/engineering and slow drivers was the problem.

This was pretty much proven in 2006 and 2007 when the car was in the private hands of CRT and First Motorsport when it scored many points and even stage wins with Duval and Kopecky - and the 'old Skoda Motorsport' at Red Bull were still rubbish.
Totally agree..

[Daniel]

Hmmm, if they had that much money then why did they hire such unproven drivers? Internal pressures maybe...

Anyhow, it is funny how things started to happen when Colin arrived. Maybe the driver needs a bit of gravitas in order to get things done.

As we have discussed many times before on this board, I think the Fabia was never a bad car (although not a winner), but a combination of poor management/engineering and slow drivers was the problem.

This was pretty much proven in 2006 and 2007 when the car was in the private hands of CRT and First Motorsport when it scored many points and even stage wins with Duval and Kopecky - and the 'old Skoda Motorsport' at Red Bull were still rubbish.

Some people did suggest after that rally australia performance by Colin that the car may not have been quite legal and that Skoda fluffed the clutch change on purpose. Just rumours of course but always good to consider all possibilities.

[MikeD]

Maybe, but Loeb won 11 of 15 rounds this year including Finland!

The other guys will have to improve if they want the title.

I agree, but Hirvonen was a lot closer to Loeb on gravel - point wise and including a lot of team orders - than he was on tarmac in 2008.

Gravel points:

Loeb - 82 points
Hirvonen - 76 points

Tarmac points:

Loeb - 40 points
Hirvonen - 27 points

I actually had Hirvonen as favorite to win the 2009 title because he's so consistent and because there's only two tarmac events, but after the launch of Citroën's Junior team I think it will be close. There will be times where Ford cannot use teamorders because there now is more likely to be several Citroëns in between the Fords. And that's a good thing (IMHO).

[Daniel]

I agree, but Hirvonen was a lot closer to Loeb on gravel - point wise and including a lot of team orders - than he was on tarmac in 2008.

Gravel points:

Loeb - 82 points
Hirvonen - 76 points

Tarmac points:

Loeb - 40 points
Hirvonen - 27 points

I actually had Hirvonen as favorite to win the 2009 title because he's so consistent and because there's only two tarmac events, but after the launch of Citroën's Junior team I think it will be close. There will be times where Ford cannot use teamorders because there now is more likely to be several Citroëns in between the Fords. And that's a good thing (IMHO).
You forget the farcical gravel starting order rules....

[MikeD]

You forget the farcical gravel starting order rules....

Good point. Any news if that will be changed for '09?

[Mirek]

Not only the starting order but as well minus points by Rautenbach in Jordan ;)

[RS]

Some people did suggest after that rally australia performance by Colin that the car may not have been quite legal and that Skoda fluffed the clutch change on purpose. Just rumours of course but always good to consider all possibilities.

Yes, Finnish people who could not understand how anybody could possibly be faster than Paasonen and Tuohino ;)

There is also another story as to why Colin was quicker...

[RS]

]Not only the starting order but as well minus points by Rautenbach in Jordan ;)

After this i'm sure Wilson tried really hard to get Conrad in a Stobart Focus for next year, but he decided to stay with the C4 afterall :D

[A.F.F.]

Of course it's true. When you think of it, without Loeb the only guy Hirvonen is competing against is Sordo. The rest were clowns covering for him, and 2 teams with crap cars. Becoming champ in this situation is not such a big deal.

So **** Loeb and his title, right ??

[jbmarcus21]

During this trouble time between driver and team ... Official, rumour, yes, no.......

Here the link for the OFFICIAL info about WRC SEASON 2009 for the entrylist'09 !!

http://planetemarcus.free.fr/team09.htm

[Barreis]

No more Marcus/Timo.. Maybe Bettega memorial again..

[alleskids]

Accept that Van Merksteijn Motorsport will not be a MT2, but "only" privateers doing 8 WRc rounds in a Focus WRC07.

[Helstar]

Some people did suggest after that rally australia performance by Colin that the car may not have been quite legal and that Skoda fluffed the clutch change on purpose. Just rumours of course but always good to consider all possibilities.
Bu******s. The performance was very good but nothing 'super-mega' relevant ... he was battling with Rovampera (Mitsu) for the second place, minutes behind Duval ^^ if the top drivers wouldn't be crashed/retired, he'd be battling for a 5th place. Skoda mechanics were nearly crying after the failed clutch change.

[jbmarcus21]

Accept that Van Merksteijn Motorsport will not be a MT2, but "only" privateers doing 8 WRc rounds in a Focus WRC07.

Yes true... i made "-" and not M2 .. ;) ... I will add "private" ;)

For Marcus ... ??? No more news... :(

[4Regioni]

For JBMarcus21:
Peter Van Merkensteij Senior 8 Wrc events
Peter Van Merkensteijn Junior 8 Wrc events
Mads Ostberg 8 Wrc events
Federico Villagra 8 Wrc events

[Daniel]

Bu******s. The performance was very good but nothing 'super-mega' relevant ... he was battling with Rovampera (Mitsu) for the second place, minutes behind Duval ^^ if the top drivers wouldn't be crashed/retired, he'd be battling for a 5th place. Skoda mechanics were nearly crying after the failed clutch change.

Hey I didn't say I believed it. Just that this was what some said.

[Mirek]

Daniel: If they had to retire because of something illegal, I think they would have retired in less amateur looking way. After this retirement they looked like a party of bunglers. Everything is possible but I think that they just failed...

[Tomi]

[quote="Helstar"]

This is what the die hard skoda fans seem to forget, but when a guy who never has won anything starts to talk about winning cars, and how with small changes make the Fabia into a winner they buy it like nothing.

[RS]

This is what the die hard skoda fans seem to forget, but when a guy who never has won anything starts to talk about winning cars, and how with small changes make the Fabia into a winner they buy it like nothing.

I don't think anyone here believed what Henning said about Fabia being a potential winner, in fact I don't even believe that is quite what he meant.

Colin was 43.7s behind Duval when he retired, last time I checked less than 1 minute does not qualify as a plural.

[Tomi]

Colin was 43.7s behind Duval when he retired, last time I checked less than 1 minute does not qualify as a plural.

The relevant thing you maybe understand is if you look at the list of retirments, that might maybe put the fabia preformance in a different light.

[RS]

The relevant thing you maybe understand is if you look at the list of retirments, that might maybe put the fabia preformance in a different light.

Colin's times throughout the whole rally were quite competitive, however of course the position he was running in was mainy because of the number of retirements.

But the man is sadly no longer with us, and the car is 4 years old next year, ancient history compared to a Focus or C4.

And I look forward to 2009 when I expect Mikko Markkula will be travelling rather faster, relatively speaking, than last time he was in a Skoda ;)

[Tomi]

And I look forward to 2009 when I expect Mikko Markkula will be travelling rather faster, relatively speaking, than last time he was in a Skoda ;)

It will be interesting to see if Skoda this time has an professional attitude, or is there again a bunch of Sveijk's running around the car without any aim to reach.

[jbmarcus21]

For JBMarcus21:
Peter Senior Van Merkensteij 8 Wrc events
Peter Van Merkensteijn Junior 8 Wrc events
Mads Ostberg 8 Wrc events
Federico Villagra 8 Wrc events

ok thanks .. i don't knew for Peter Senior Van Merkensteij program ;) ???

[RS]

It will be interesting to see if Skoda this time has an professional attitude, or is there again a bunch of Sveijk's running around the car without any aim to reach.

I am confident the programme will be much more succesful this time.

The car looks good and they have tested it well, there are new management and engineers in place and the driver lineup is good this time too.

[alleskids]

ok thanks .. i don't knew for Peter Senior Van Merkensteij program ;) ???

senior will do the same program as junior :)

[A.F.F.]

I am confident the programme will be much more succesful this time.

The car looks good and they have tested it well, there are new management and engineers in place and the driver lineup is good this time too.


As what I was going to tell. However, I don't know who those testdrivers have been.

[Halvis]

I don't think anyone here believed what Henning said about Fabia being a potential winner, in fact I don't even believe that is quite what he meant.

Colin was 43.7s behind Duval when he retired, last time I checked less than 1 minute does not qualify as a plural.

"Skodaen gikk som ei kule. Ja, jeg synes bilen var bedre å ratte enn Forden min. Det er ikke så mye som skal gjøres før dette blir en skikkelig vinnerbil, sier Solberg."

This is what Henning presumably said, if it's correct that he said exactly this, it means that (translated) "The Skoda went like a bullet. I think it was better to drive than the Ford. It doesn't take much work to transform it into a real winning car" - but he doesn't put it into perspective, I think he means in a national norwegian level.

[RS]

As what I was going to tell. However, I don't know who those testdrivers have been.

Kopecky, Baumschlager, Lindholm, Sainz, Panizzi and Hanninen.

[Mirek]

It's funny that the thread "news and rumours" is full of team which retired 3 years a go with no results :)

[A.F.F.]

Kopecky, Baumschlager, Lindholm, Sainz, Panizzi and Hanninen.

I know Baumschlager but I've never heard of those other guys :confused: Hopefully they have ven some idea of a rallycar.

[Tomi]

Kopecky, Baumschlager, Lindholm, Sainz, Panizzi and Hanninen.

Who are the ones that has had the main responibility in the developing.

[Mirek]

Kopecký definitely, he made tousands of kilometers (mostly on tarmac). Baumschlager also made many tests. Hänninen and Lindholm made mostly gravel tests (Hänninen also some tarmac and snow in last weeks). Panizzi made only two tarmac tests and Sainz only one, I think. Probably there were some others behind the wheels as well, but that's just my opinion.

[StevieWonder]

As what I was going to tell. However, I don't know who those testdrivers have been.

one of them was the Austrian raimund baumschlager - known as head of red bull rallye team
sainz was also testing the skoda one day in Austria !
and i think kopecky was also official test driver.

[StevieWonder]

one of them was the Austrian raimund baumschlager - known as head of red bull rallye team
sainz was also testing the skoda one day in Austria !
and i think kopecky was also official test driver.

o sorry
mirek has already answered !

[RS]

I know Baumschlager but I've never heard of those other guys :confused: Hopefully they have ven some idea of a rallycar.

:D

[Tomi]

]Kopecký definitely, he made tousands of kilometers (mostly on tarmac). Baumschlager also made many tests. Hänninen and Lindholm made mostly gravel tests (Hänninen also some tarmac and snow in last weeks). Panizzi made only two tarmac tests and Sainz only one, I think. Probably there were some others behind the wheels as well, but that's just my opinion.

So the testdrivers seems to be Kopecký and Baumslhlager, does anyone know how many test days Hänninen has so far, 2-3 ??

[A.F.F.]

So the testdrivers seems to be Kopecký and Baumslhlager, does anyone know how many test days Hänninen has so far, 2-3 ??

In his own website Juho tells he has been testing new Skoda "pitkin syksyä", whatever that means in testdays?? I got an impression it's more than just couple of days.

http://www.juhohanninen.com/main.site?action=news/view&id=246&ngid=2&language_code=fin

[Tomi]

In his own website Juho tells he has been testing new Skoda "pitkin syksyä", whatever that means in testdays?? I got an impression it's more than just couple of days.

http://www.juhohanninen.com/main.site?action=news/view&id=246&ngid=2&language_code=fin

Ahaa ok

[Barreis]

I'm happy about this Finn driver!

[Mirek]

Tomi: Juho had much more testing days than two or three, my guess is about 15-20 ;)

[Tomi]

]Tomi: Juho had much more testing days than two or three, my guess is about 15-20 ;)

Thats good

[A.F.F.]

You have to forgive Tomi for being such a critical about this issue. As a Skoda driver himself he only wants to be sure team will be supporting is truly best of the best of the best :D

[Tomi]

You have to forgive Tomi for being such a critical about this issue. As a Skoda driver himself he only wants to be sure team will be supporting is truly best of the best of the best :D

I support all new teams that will start in WRC, but I just wanted to know about Hänninen, if calling guys who drive 1-2 days testdrivers, i find it strange.

[Krigen]

Andreas Mikkelsen will drive the Subaru Cup this year, starting next weekend in Sigdalsrally :)

[Salist]

Andreas Mikkelsen will drive the Subaru Cup this year, starting next weekend in Sigdalsrally :)

-1 WRC :-(

[swordsman]

List of drivers for WRC 2009: http://www.maxattack.net/2009/01/who-drives-what-in-wrc-2009/

Complete??

[jbmarcus21]

List of drivers for WRC 2009: http://www.maxattack.net/2009/01/who-drives-what-in-wrc-2009/

Complete??

yes i think.. but Ostberg doubt because i think just 8 rallies not 12 ;)

here : http://planetemarcus.free.fr/team09.htm ;)

[Tom206wrc]

List of drivers for WRC 2009: http://www.maxattack.net/2009/01/who-drives-what-in-wrc-2009/

Complete??



Mmmmmh...change of codriver for our friend Conrad Rautenbach ??? Wonder how it'll affect his drive(in positive or negative) :mark:

[swordsman]

Mmmmmh...change of codriver for our friend Conrad Rautenbach ??? Wonder how it'll affect his drive(in positive or negative) :mark:

Yeah, hehe, I think we'll see.... I love speculation, but in this case I don't wanna do it ;)

[Salist]

yes i think.. but Ostberg doubt because i think just 8 rallies not 12 ;)

here : http://planetemarcus.free.fr/team09.htm ;)

Urmo Aava, Ford Focus WRC, 8 rallies

[jbmarcus21]

Urmo Aava, Ford Focus WRC, 8 rallies

just a rumour for the moment not ?? Not really official ... ?

[Salist]

just a rumour for the moment not ?? Not really official ... ?

I don't know, but here is the source:
http://www.rallybuzz.com/aava-ford-focus-2009/

[jbmarcus21]

yes true .. but expected ;)

[Salist]

yes true .. but expected ;)

;) ;) ;)

[Koppomsbo]

Dont know if this have been talked about here before but Patrik Sandell is going to do PWRC in Skoda Fabia S2000

[Mirek]

Is it confirmed?

[Tom206wrc]

Dont know if this have been talked about here before but Patrik Sandell is going to do PWRC in Skoda Fabia S2000



:up:

[Barreis]

Great news about Sandell!

[ProRally]

Dont know if this have been talked about here before but Patrik Sandell is going to do PWRC in Skoda Fabia S2000

Would be great if confirmed, but does Skoda HAVE that much Fabia S2000 ready ?

Any news from our CZ forumers ?

[Tom206wrc]

Would be great if confirmed, but does Skoda HAVE that much Fabia S2000 ready ?

Any news from our CZ forumers ?



Sandell could use in Norway(first round of PWRC) the Fabia of either Hänninen or Kopecky used at Monte-Carlo/IRC... ;)

But the Fabia never used Pirellis(no developpment with the italian manufacturer) it will have to wear in WRC though... :mark:

[HaCo]

Would be great if confirmed, but does Skoda HAVE that much Fabia S2000 ready ?

Hmmm, how long are they building this car allready? :-)

[Brother John]

Dont know if this have been talked about here before but Patrik Sandell is going to do PWRC in Skoda Fabia S2000

Maybe Patrik will drive the Skoda WRC car in Norway!!!

This is what he say "
http://www.vf.se/Sport/Varmland/PG-mot-start-i-Norge-090103.aspx

[pantealex]

Maybe Patrik will drive the Skoda WRC car in Norway!!!

This is what he say "
http://www.vf.se/Sport/Varmland/PG-mot-start-i-Norge-090103.aspx
That is what PG says, not Patrik :)

[Brother John]

That is what PG says, not Patrik :)

Ooooops my mistake. ;) P = not PG. :D

[Tomi]

That is what PG says, not Patrik :)

He compaire it to suzuki as well, says that the drivability is better, but Suzuki had a better engine, also he says he wont pay much for the drive because the car is not very competitive.

[Viking]

He will have a good test of how competitive the car is next saturday in Sigdalsrally, where he will be up against Mads Østberg in S14 amongst others.

[Psycho!]

Someone was telling that Fabia is better than the Focus and capable of victories with some adjustments...

[Tom206wrc]

Wow the Fabia engine "less good" than the Suzuki one ???? :s :s

[ProRally]

Hmmm, how long are they building this car allready? :-)

True, in fact in order to homologate the car they have to have 20 kits ready for inspection by FIA.
But that does not include bodyshells...
Lets see who really has a Fabia S2000 this month and next month :D

[Mirek]

Wow the Fabia engine "less good" than the Suzuki one ???? :s :s

That's probably truth. Fabia WRC engine is weak compared to Focus or even C4, especialy torque.

[Barreis]

Clever thinking from clever guy who thinks about future of sport..
http://www.rallybuzz.com/chandler-wrc-reduce-costs/

[Daniel]

Meaningless words from the guy who who so far has done nothing to secure the future of the sport..
http://www.rallybuzz.com/chandler-wrc-reduce-costs/

Fixed your spelling mistakes.

[BDunnell]

I find this comment of Chandler's absolutely absurd: 'If I've got a Super 2000 car and I'm doing national rallies in New Zealand, for example, and I decide I want to have a go at the WRC when it comes to my country then I will be able to hire the kit, bolt it on my car, do the WRC round, take the kit off my car, pay the hire fee and carry on. It needs to be that simple.'

'That simple'? Would it not be simpler (and cheaper) to come up with a formula that can run in domestic championships and the WRC without the need for a bolt-on kit? The FIA managed this before with Group A.

[Sulland]

But FIA can not dictate the national authorities to run S2000+ or not.

So for many countries this will not be a problem, you can use the same car for both. But for people that are running R4 (S2000) in the national series, can bolt on the kit to upgrade to R5 (WRC) if they want to do their own rally in the world championship.

This is a good system, if they can get it to work in practical life !!

[Tomi]

I find this comment of Chandler's absolutely absurd: 'If I've got a Super 2000 car and I'm doing national rallies in New Zealand, for example, and I decide I want to have a go at the WRC when it comes to my country then I will be able to hire the kit, bolt it on my car, do the WRC round, take the kit off my car, pay the hire fee and carry on. It needs to be that simple.

Wonder what plans they have for countries where rally is not on so amateur level, can those kits be bought as well? I think the swap from s2000 to s2000+kit is bigger job than they think, and not worth to do too often.

[Daniel]

I find this comment of Chandler's absolutely absurd: 'If I've got a Super 2000 car and I'm doing national rallies in New Zealand, for example, and I decide I want to have a go at the WRC when it comes to my country then I will be able to hire the kit, bolt it on my car, do the WRC round, take the kit off my car, pay the hire fee and carry on. It needs to be that simple.'

'That simple'? Would it not be simpler (and cheaper) to come up with a formula that can run in domestic championships and the WRC without the need for a bolt-on kit? The FIA managed this before with Group A.

Yes I don't get what was wrong with GroupA. If manufacturers struggled to make money from it it's because they didn't make decent cars or marketthem properly.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Wonder what plans they have for countries where rally is not on so amateur level, can those kits be bought as well? I think the swap from s2000 to s2000+kit is bigger job than they think, and not worth to do too often.
Yes, I think the compression ratio of a turbo vs. normal aspirated engine leads to alot of problems, but this is upto the manufacturers to sort out, as its them that want the turbos in the first place. The option is to just use Super 2000, and forget about the + version.

[Barreis]

I think it musts be this way.. Otherwise it will be some Mr.Wilson or Mr.Richards who will think:"Why not to take 2 or 3 millions euro for nothing!!!"
Now it will be 150 drivers in the world who'll have oportunity with their budget to drive proper car in WRC.. Regards.

[Gard]

snip..
This is a good system, if they can get it to work in practical life !!

How on earth is that going to work? You cannot change from an optimal aspirated engine to a turbo version with a simple bolt on kit. That would be close to full engine rebuild. Much easier and probably cheaper to just change the engine.

[Daniel]

How on earth is that going to work? You cannot change from an optimal aspirated engine to a turbo version with a simple bolt on kit. That would be close to full engine rebuild. Much easier and probably cheaper to just change the engine.

Well if the compression ratio is low enough on the NA engine it could just be a straight swap as long as there's not too much boost.

[Bazza2541]

How on earth is that going to work? You cannot change from an optimal aspirated engine to a turbo version with a simple bolt on kit. That would be close to full engine rebuild. Much easier and probably cheaper to just change the engine.

Perhaps the myriad of engineering people who work for the car manufacturers and WRC teams know something that you don't?

[JFL]

Is'nt there talk about 40-50hp extra in the +version? That would'nt require a lot of boost to the engine.. The today's wrc cars have about 100-130+hp without boost! I guess some other things like antilag and launch control puts a lot of strain to the engines and will not be on the new cars..

[HaCo]

How on earth is that going to work? You cannot change from an optimal aspirated engine to a turbo version with a simple bolt on kit. That would be close to full engine rebuild. Much easier and probably cheaper to just change the engine.
Maybe if you rent the kit, it is WITH a motor in it.

[AndyRAC]

Yes I don't get what was wrong with GroupA. If manufacturers struggled to make money from it it's because they didn't make decent cars or marketthem properly.

I'm another who thinks the Group A regs were the best. And doesn't really accept the reasons the Manufacturers gave for it's end. The Homologation regs of ???? cars per year wasn't viable - or so we are told. At least then - Joe Public could go to his local dealer and buy the road version of the Rally car. Now, you cannot do this - look at the soon to be released RS Focus, in all honesty it's just a glorified ST. It has very little in common with the WRCar - no 2LTurbo, no 4WD - So how is it an RS??
The more the Road & WRCars are the same the better - surely. At the moment, the WRCars are basically Prototypes - and sadly, the S2000's are not much better.

And as for marketing - well Citroen have really gone to town with their success of 2008, haven't they??

[Tomi]

Maybe if you rent the kit, it is WITH a motor in it.

I too think there will be different motor in the kit package.

[A.F.F.]

Am I too late with this news? Gardemeister got himself an Abarth for Monte.
Team will be Astra like his rally with them back in the days of 307.

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/ralli/2009/01/773422

[Daniel]

I'm another who thinks the Group A regs were the best. And doesn't really accept the reasons the Manufacturers gave for it's end. The Homologation regs of ???? cars per year wasn't viable - or so we are told. At least then - Joe Public could go to his local dealer and buy the road version of the Rally car. Now, you cannot do this - look at the soon to be released RS Focus, in all honesty it's just a glorified ST. It has very little in common with the WRCar - no 2LTurbo, no 4WD - So how is it an RS??
The more the Road & WRCars are the same the better - surely. At the moment, the WRCars are basically Prototypes - and sadly, the S2000's are not much better.

And as for marketing - well Citroen have really gone to town with their success of 2008, haven't they??

Couldn't agree more. I think the main problem with group A was manufacturers trying to sell the minimum amount of cars. Subaru showed how many cars you can sell with group A regs. Even before the WRC regs Subaru was selling good numbers of cars at least in Australia.

[BDunnell]

I'm another who thinks the Group A regs were the best. And doesn't really accept the reasons the Manufacturers gave for it's end. The Homologation regs of ???? cars per year wasn't viable - or so we are told. At least then - Joe Public could go to his local dealer and buy the road version of the Rally car. Now, you cannot do this - look at the soon to be released RS Focus, in all honesty it's just a glorified ST. It has very little in common with the WRCar - no 2LTurbo, no 4WD - So how is it an RS??
The more the Road & WRCars are the same the better - surely. At the moment, the WRCars are basically Prototypes - and sadly, the S2000's are not much better.

It's not even as if Group A in its original form took a lot of effort to homologate a decent car, because mainstream 'hot hatches' like the Golf GTi, Astra GTE/Kadett GSi and Renault 11 Turbo were eligible and didn't require their manufacturers to build a special model to meet the homologation requirements. Add to that the fact that the BMW M3 and Ford Sierra Cosworth were intended for racing as well as rallying, and it was a cost-effective formula.

[Barreis]

Am I too late with this news? Gardemeister got himself an Abarth for Monte.
Team will be Astra like his rally with them back in the days of 307.

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/ralli/2009/01/773422
Good news!

[RS]

Am I too late with this news? Gardemeister got himself an Abarth for Monte.
Team will be Astra like his rally with them back in the days of 307.

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/ralli/2009/01/773422

Toni could be a potential winner on Monte, he has always gone well there in the past and the Punto is capable of victories even if it is not quite as fast as the 207. Would be nice to see him do more IRC too.

[Gard]

Perhaps the myriad of engineering people who work for the car manufacturers and WRC teams know something that you don't?

They just laugh at the idea

[Gard]

Well if the compression ratio is low enough on the NA engine it could just be a straight swap as long as there's not too much boost.

Sure, that would be a good NA engine. A high reving engine with boost. the hole idea is rediculous. And all the manufactorer need to make engines that can use the kit?

No, they will need to build an engine that uses the standarized kit and swap engines. Probably change almost everything from air intake to muffler.

[Brother John]

Joe Public could go to his local dealer and buy the road version of the Rally car. Now, you cannot do this - look at the soon to be released RS Focus, in all honesty it's just a glorified ST. It has very little in common with the WRCar - no 2LTurbo, no 4WD - So how is it an RS??
The more the Road & WRCars are the same the better - surely. At the moment, the WRCars are basically Prototypes - and sadly, the S2000's are not much better.
And as for marketing - well Citroen have really gone to town with their success of 2008, haven't they??

I couldn't agree more and think WRC go once again totally in the wrong direction with S2000+.

[RS]

No, they will need to build an engine that uses the standarized kit and swap engines. Probably change almost everything from air intake to muffler.

What I can see happening is about 3-4 months into this year, the teams and FIA will realise that this isn't going to work and we will instead end up with detuned WRCars with the same engines as now (ie control transmission and control turbocharger) Future WRCars would have to be based on an S2000, but the engine could be totally different.

[Daniel]

Sure, that would be a good NA engine. A high reving engine with boost. the hole idea is rediculous. And all the manufactorer need to make engines that can use the kit?

No, they will need to build an engine that uses the standarized kit and swap engines. Probably change almost everything from air intake to muffler.

Huh? It's not ridiculous :rolleyes: You CAN fit a turbo or supercharger that gives a light amount of boost without having to swap any internals on an engine. It's a fact. As long as the standard NA engine doesn't run crazy compression ratios as standard then it will take a light boost no problem.

[Daniel]

I couldn't agree more and think WRC go once again totally in the wrong direction with S2000+.

Yay! We agree on something finally :p

[grugsticles]

Huh? It's not ridiculous :rolleyes: You CAN fit a turbo or supercharger that gives a light amount of boost without having to swap any internals on an engine. It's a fact. As long as the standard NA engine doesn't run crazy compression ratios as standard then it will take a light boost no problem.
From my rathor basic knowledge of engine design, all that is needed to allow an NA engine to run a reasonable amount of turbo boost pressure is to change the head gasket which in turn changes the engine compression ratio.
You do have other things to consider as well (such as head strength, cylinder strength, piston strength, fuel delivery, exhaust manifold and tuning etc.) but in essence an NA engine can be turned into a turbo engine without a great deal of fuss as long as the NA engine is quite strong to begin with. One would assume that an engine usind in a S2000 rally car would have quite significant preperation done to it when built.

For example, you can get EJ22 open decked engine block from an Australian NA Subaru, simply swap the pistons for forged units leaving the stock rods, crank shaft, and the complete head assemby as standard, add some larger injectors, use the correct head gaskets, add some electronic managment and you can quite safely put run 18psi of boost and make quite decent power for a road car (200+ kw atw isnt uncommon).
I have a Subaru background so im basing that on experience with Subaru's.
If more strength is required then sleeving and using upgraded internals can deliver a high reving, torquey tough as guts engine.

Im sure the same idea can be applied with a S2000 engine to allow the addition of turbocharger for minimal financial outlay.
The only immediate downfall would be the time taken to convert from S2000 to S2000+.

[Gard]

Huh? It's not ridiculous :rolleyes: You CAN fit a turbo or supercharger that gives a light amount of boost without having to swap any internals on an engine. It's a fact. As long as the standard NA engine doesn't run crazy compression ratios as standard then it will take a light boost no problem.

I agree that you CAN do this, but with very limited boost or with more boost and a useless NA engine. Even just by changing head gasket size, you may ruin gas flow and speed. At least make it much less effective. We are talking about keeping the engine competitive in both configurations.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Maybe the option is to have 2 different engines, for which the price difference between the two is only €20,000 (complete with all the ancilleries...turbo etc)

Another option, why not have a supercharger? Belt driven, no intercooler, could be standardized easier than a turbo.

[Micke_VOC]

PG will entry Rally Norway.
He try to get budget to drive a Skodia Fabia WRC and if that will fall he try with his own Evo 9 Group-N.

[Daniel]

I agree that you CAN do this, but with very limited boost or with more boost and a useless NA engine. Even just by changing head gasket size, you may ruin gas flow and speed. At least make it much less effective. We are talking about keeping the engine competitive in both configurations.

"competitive"? the NA engines will be competing against NA engines and the turbo engines will be competing against turbo engines....

[padWRC]

M600 WRC the new toy of Ostberg!
Translation?
http://moss-avis.no/article/20090105/SPORT/658726752/1044/ABON

[VFTS]

M600 WRC the new toy of Ostberg!
Translation?
http://moss-avis.no/article/20090105/SPORT/658726752/1044/ABON

Briefly the article tells that Mads Østberg started to test the new car today monday. They will have a thre day test in the norwegian mountain before they go to Rally Sigdal on saturday which is the first event in the norwegian championship 2009.

They will continue to test the car and will also drive the second championship-event Rally Hadeland 24.jan. in the new WRC08.

Then they will be ready for Rally Norway with a lot of winter testing.

The price for the new WRC08 was 4,3 million NOK(425.000 GBP)

Team Adapta have reduced their WRC-entrys from 10 down to 8 events. They will not go to Ireland and Cyprus which was the original plan.

[jbmarcus21]

Strange the immat's of the car M600 ??!!!

what is it ... ?? S14 or S15 car ?

[Gard]

"competitive"? the NA engines will be competing against NA engines and the turbo engines will be competing against turbo engines....

Ok lets say, you're running a manu-team that will only compete in WRC/s2000+ and really gives a f... on how it will run as a NA engine. Build it completely optimal for the kit-parts. How do you think it will do against the other NA+kit cars? It will probably smoke'em with twice the torgue. Same could be the other way around. build an optimal NA engine and give a f... in how it will do with the kit.

How is FIA going to deal with this? Complete control (Pirelli)engines?

[Daniel]

You really don't get this ? Ok lets say, you're running a manu-team that will only compete in WRC/s2000+ and really gives a f... on how it will run as a NA engine. Build it completely optimal for the kit-parts. How do you think it will do against the other NA+kit cars? It will probably smoke'em with twice the torgue. Same could be the other way around. build an optimal NA engine and give a f... in how it will do with the kit.

How is FIA going to deal with this? Complete control (Pirelli)engines?

:rolleyes:

The engines are "controlled" because they have to be homologated. The FIA can choose the spec and if the FIA chose to keep the same engine for S2000 and S2000+ then anyone building an engine to suit one specific regulation and get more power would find themselves excluded and banned for running an illegal engine. It's called homologation and it's why Richard Burns was excluded in Argentina one year and Marcus in Cyprus as well.

What you fail to understand is that the kit is supposed to be easily installed and taken off the car and an engine change isn't what most would consider an easy changeover.

The fact of the matter is that you could probably go out tomorrow, drive to a specialist and have a supercharger fitted to your car giving you a mild increase in power all without opening your engine up.

I'm not saying this is how it WILL be as no one knows what's going to happen, all I said was that it was technically possible (and it is!) to have an engine and add a turbo with only a small amount of boost (as per the s2000 proposals) and not need to modify the internals of the engine. You seem to argue that this is not technically possible when it clearly is and thousands of people on the road with standard engines + superchargers will agree with me.

[VFTS]

:rolleyes:

The engines are "controlled" because they have to be homologated. The FIA can choose the spec and if the FIA chose to keep the same engine for S2000 and S2000+ then anyone building an engine to suit one specific regulation and get more power would find themselves excluded and banned for running an illegal engine. It's called homologation and it's why Richard Burns was excluded in Argentina one year and Marcus in Cyprus as well.

What you fail to understand is that the kit is supposed to be easily installed and taken off the car and an engine change isn't what most would consider an easy changeover.

The fact of the matter is that you could probably go out tomorrow, drive to a specialist and have a supercharger fitted to your car giving you a mild increase in power all without opening your engine up.

I'm not saying this is how it WILL be as no one knows what's going to happen, all I said was that it was technically possible (and it is!) to have an engine and add a turbo with only a small amount of boost (as per the s2000 proposals) and not need to modify the internals of the engine. You seem to argue that this is not technically possible when it clearly is and thousands of people on the road with standard engines + superchargers will agree with me.

GARD and DANIEL!!! Could you please post your discussion in a technical thread!!!

This is a NEWS and RUMOURS thread!!!!

[Barreis]

FIAT in WRC next year.. Vittorio Caneva - Facebook.

[Gard]

:rolleyes:

The engines are "controlled" because they have to be homologated. The FIA can choose the spec and if the FIA chose to keep the same engine for S2000 and S2000+ then anyone building an engine to suit one specific regulation and get more power would find themselves excluded and banned for running an illegal engine. It's called homologation and it's why Richard Burns was excluded in Argentina one year and Marcus in Cyprus as well.

What you fail to understand is that the kit is supposed to be easily installed and taken off the car and an engine change isn't what most would consider an easy changeover.

The fact of the matter is that you could probably go out tomorrow, drive to a specialist and have a supercharger fitted to your car giving you a mild increase in power all without opening your engine up.

I'm not saying this is how it WILL be as no one knows what's going to happen, all I said was that it was technically possible (and it is!) to have an engine and add a turbo with only a small amount of boost (as per the s2000 proposals) and not need to modify the internals of the engine. You seem to argue that this is not technically possible when it clearly is and thousands of people on the road with standard engines + superchargers will agree with me.

yeah sorry for OT.

last post from me. I DON'T say it's tecnical impossible. I have done conversions like this. Actually I'm using a modfied engine in the car I'm using today. Everything but a rebuild is a huge compromize.

I say the solution will not work, because the teams want to win. You can optimize for either s2000 or s2000+. everthing else would be a compromize and you will not have a winning engine. So depending on homologation, you'll either have a good NA engine or a good turbo engine.

Boosting an optimal (high reving) NA engine, will make it much more expensive and unreliable. The teams will have all sorts of trouble, making winning combos out of this.

[cali]

Two guys are debateing - one guy has experience with building engines and on guy is keyboard-warrior - which one should i believe? :rolleyes:



:D

[ARF]

Strange the immat's of the car M600 ??!!!

what is it ... ?? S14 or S15 car ?

S14, a new car specially built for Mads. S15 was never homologated.

[Daniel]

Two guys are debateing - one guy has experience with building engines and on guy is keyboard-warrior - which one should i believe? :rolleyes:



:D

You should agree with the one that said it wasn't technical possible who now admits that it is technically possible of course :laugh:

You can't do that!

How on earth is that going to work? You cannot change from an optimal aspirated engine to a turbo version with a simple bolt on kit. That would be close to full engine rebuild. Much easier and probably cheaper to just change the engine.
I point out that the boost used in S2000+ engines will be quite low so it
can be done

Well if the compression ratio is low enough on the NA engine it could just be a straight swap as long as there's not too much boost.
Gard finally admits that you can do this

I agree that you CAN do this, but with very limited boost or with more boost and a useless NA engine. Even just by changing head gasket size, you may ruin gas flow and speed. At least make it much less effective. We are talking about keeping the engine competitive in both configurations.

So who you gonna believe? The guy who one moment says it's not possible and wakes up the next morning and thinks it is?

[cali]

Daniel, everything is possible, but question is about how much you have to compromise (reliability vs. power aso.)? Would this be a good combination?

[noel157]

GARD and DANIEL!!! Could you please post your discussion in a technical thread!!!

This is a NEWS and RUMOURS thread!!!!

+1

[Sardalense]

M600 WRC the new toy of Ostberg!
Translation?
http://moss-avis.no/article/20090105/SPORT/658726752/1044/ABON

M600 WRC, chassis 08004 ex-C1 WRC

[c4]

Aava in Stobart Focus on Rally Ireland entry
http://www.rallybuzz.com/rally-ireland-2009-entry-list/

[Tomi]

Good news that Aava got the Stobart.

[jbmarcus21]

So Wilson is now number 1 driver of Stobart !!

He drive all championship .. The number is not possible to switch .. So Henning will drive Ireland nut not nominate, and Aava 8 rallies...
So by deduction Wilson number 1 !!

[Barreis]

Good news - Aava/Sikk..

[alleskids]

numbers of MT2 teams stay the same through the year, but teams can change drivers each rally, jus tlike they did in 2008 with Galli, Duval, Solberg and Wilson.

[jbmarcus21]

So Wilson is now number 1 driver of Stobart !!

He drive all championship .. The number is not possible to switch .. So Henning will drive Ireland nut not nominate, and Aava 8 rallies...
So by deduction Wilson number 1 !!

I'm wrong.. No need fixed driver for number 1 drive ;) ... So they can switch between Henning, Wilson and Aava to score stobart points

[Buzz Lightyear]

Good news that Aava got the Stobart.

You mean the Ford? What prestige is there in driving a Stobart Car?

[Tomi]

You mean the Ford? What prestige is there in driving a Stobart Car?

It's one of the better cars for privateers, and also he has put much effort, and trying very hard to reach the WRC. I cant think of anyone who would deserve a drive more than he, also he can drive quite good too.

[Buzz Lightyear]

It's one of the better cars for privateers, and also he has put much effort, and trying very hard to reach the WRC. I cant think of anyone who would deserve a drive more than he, also he can drive quite good too.

Yes, Aava is a good guy.

But the Stobart thing is a myth, Avva's car will be 95% his own sponsors, but they still want him in "Stobart" team, but Henning has been promised something too... is a bit vauge. Plus Matthew is due to be World Champion next year so, Aava will not get a fair shout :s :

If Stobart were to pick Avva and Wilks/Meeke for example, and stick with them for the year, and pay for their drives outright, I would give them more credit. They are not even 20% of a sponsor that Expert are.

[RS]

Yes, Aava is a good guy.

But the Stobart thing is a myth, Avva's car will be 95% his own sponsors, but they still want him in "Stobart" team, but Henning has been promised something too... is a bit vauge. Plus Matthew is due to be World Champion next year so, Aava will not get a fair shout :s :

I guess if you are in one of the Ford M2 'teams' they just shuffle you about as necessary. Maybe Aava will also appear for Munchis at some point this year.

[ste898]

Yes, Aava is a good guy.

But the Stobart thing is a myth, Avva's car will be 95% his own sponsors, but they still want him in "Stobart" team, but Henning has been promised something too... is a bit vauge. Plus Matthew is due to be World Champion next year so, Aava will not get a fair shout :s :


The 'Stobart' team is turning into a joke now.....who is in charge of that team because they have'nt a clue!!!

Why cant they make a big big decision and have a 3rd team its not rocket science!!

[VFTS]

Mads Østberg have tested his new S14....he is very pleased with the test:
http://www.norsk-rally.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5885:mads-storfornoyd-med-nybilen

They have managed 200km of testing monday and tuesday. Team Adapta also had their "old" S12b on the test and Mads drove both the cars to feel the differences.
They have chosen Öhlins.

They will continue their test tomorrow.

[swordsman]

Hmm, didn't Henning present his deal to be super-duper and he was like first driver of the team? Always priority? Doesn't really fit the fact that he is not nominated in Ireland...

[VFTS]

Hmm, didn't Henning present his deal to be super-duper and he was like first driver of the team? Always priority? Doesn't really fit the fact that he is not nominated in Ireland...

I havent seen any list for nominated drivers yet....

[Wim]

My question is really what prodrive is doing these days? They were readying several cars for the 2009 season and several steps ( engine and dampers) were ready for homologation. And not for the least, a vast number of personel and bookings for the new season. So it would be stupid to not run several events themself or even the whole season. :confused:

[Buzz Lightyear]

My question is really what prodrive is doing these days? They were readying several cars for the 2009 season and several steps ( engine and dampers) were ready for homologation. And not for the least, a vast number of personel and bookings for the new season. So it would be stupid to not run several events themself or even the whole season. :confused:

One problem...

nobody wants to drive it.

[pucky54]

...and as we see, no M2 entry for Adapta......yet

[Tomi]

Yes, Aava is a good guy. But the Stobart thing is a myth, Avva's car will be 95% his own sponsors

Offcourse he does, same like other privateers, what has been promised to who nobody knows, i dont belive that any driver has got any special treatment in the team sofar, and i dont think anyone will.

[mjh]

I havent seen any list for nominated drivers yet....

From wrc website:


In Ireland Aava joins Stobart regular Matthew Wilson as the second points nominated driver, while Henning Solberg will drive a third car for the team.

[Gard]

Hmm, didn't Henning present his deal to be super-duper and he was like first driver of the team? Always priority? Doesn't really fit the fact that he is not nominated in Ireland...

Has nothing to do with the nomination I think. The priority is for getting the best spec available, best parts when needed and not to be "ordered" to let other Fords past without getting the settings f.... up.

[swordsman]

Has nothing to do with the nomination I think. The priority is for getting the best spec available, best parts when needed and not to be "ordered" to let other Fords past without getting the settings f.... up.

But of course they will be more keen to have success on a car that scores points for the team than a car that doesn't. That's at least my personal expericence of team managers, and I don't think it's different now :)

[Sulland]

Has nothing to do with the nomination I think. The priority is for getting the best spec available, best parts when needed and not to be "ordered" to let other Fords past without getting the settings f.... up.


I agree, I do not think the Manu Points are very important to Henning. He is there only for the driver points, and to try to get as high as possible !
As long as he gets the tech support, testing and not having the car changed over night.

[swordsman]

I agree, I do not think the Manu Points are very important to Henning. He is there only for the driver points, and to try to get as high as possible !
As long as he gets the tech support, testing and not having the car changed over night.

Problem is that points scorers almost always get the best tech support...

[Viking]

I don`t think Henning bother with Ireland anyway, any points will be bonus.
Full focus is on Rally Norway.

[swordsman]

I don`t think Henning bother with Ireland anyway, any points will be bonus.
Full focus is on Rally Norway.

That's more true :) However, it's always good to have prio. I don't think Henning is focused on result in Ireland, but I do think he's keen to get better on asphalt :D

[Koppomsbo]

Dont know if this is the correct tread about it but there is a least two group R2 cars on his way to sweden

Victor Henriksson in a Ford Fiesta R2 and Anders Gullstrand in Citroen C2 R2

[urabus-denoS2000]

Fiesta R2?

[Karbonyl]

Also asking - Fiesta R2?

[swordsman]

Also asking - Fiesta R2?

Think it will be developed by Andreas Eriksson and his Ford company... http://www.fordteamrs.se

[COD]

Fiesta R2?


Will be homologated later in the year. New fiesta chassis.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Very nice :)

Although was hoping for a proper works project

[Racing Ka]

Wait future Fiesta rally news from tomorrow..

[Micke_VOC]

Patrik Flodin have confirmed to drive PWRC with URT team
=)
First event is Norway and before that he will do first round of russian championship for testing.

[Wim]

One problem...

nobody wants to drive it.
Two months ago...Marcus had an offer from Subaru he thought about for a long time. Aava, Wilks and Mikkelsen did test and were serius candidates for driving a S14. The Impreza can't be sooooooo far off the pace. If Subaru would still be in WRC, there would be C4's and for sure a few Focusses left to hire.
But, yes...the S14 had still some minor problems and were little off pace..but I still think that small evolutions would have made it close to the best.
In Irland, locals ( even in a S12) could give the factory-boys a hard time. And in Norway Mats won't be so far off the pace I think.

[swordsman]

Okay guys, I know you'll say I'm crazy, but may Petter be putting together his own private team using Bozian 307WRC's? I've been thinking though a few brands/teams and come to no better conclusion. I don't believe he wants to go S2000, he doesn't want to be compared to henning, which excludes ford, Citroen seems quite full, etc.... What do you guys think? (I've explained my thoughts more in detail in my blog if you wanna read more)

[Tom206wrc]

I agree for the idea Petter in a whale :D :D

[kiil]

I'm sure he is not considering spending money on outdated machinery. I think he is only looking for top-class cars, and imho the 307 is way past that.

[JFL]

Petter in a whale..hmm .. interessting. But is the team proffesional enough for him? As it is now, I don't think they are, but maybe with Petter and his sponsors help!

[swordsman]

Petter in a whale..hmm .. interessting. But is the team proffesional enough for him? As it is now, I don't think they are, but maybe with Petter and his sponsors help!

From what I know they're really professional. Personal experience.

[Wim]

I don't think Petter will drive an 307... It's too old and even more difficult to drive. Marcus never got the grips on it.. Neither did the rest of the Peugeot team. The only few who could drive it were Stohl and Galli an yes...Henning a bit to...

[JFL]

If I could drive with them I would be thrilled, but I think Petter is thinking bigger.. If you look at the servicepark facilities, number of cars they have, budget,.. Its not what Petter is looking for I think! My personal experience has nothing to do with this at all! This is a rumours tread, and I'm just throwing out my thoughts,... Sorry... ;)

[swordsman]

If I could drive with them I would be thrilled, but I think Petter is thinking bigger.. If you look at the servicepark facilities, number of cars they have, budget,.. Its not what Petter is looking for I think! My personal experience has nothing to do with this at all! This is a rumours tread, and I'm just throwing out my thoughts,... Sorry... ;)

Sorry JFL, I think you got me wrong. I meant that it was _my_ personal experience of them.

[Mirek]

I don't think Petter will drive an 307... It's too old and even more difficult to drive. Marcus never got the grips on it.. Neither did the rest of the Peugeot team. The only few who could drive it were Stohl and Galli an yes...Henning a bit to...

Marcus was driving completely different 307 than Stohl and Henning. In 2005 the car was fuly active but on crapy Pirellis. In 2006 it was mechanical with BFG tyres. The car wasn't that bad, it suffered very much from tyres in factory era. It prooved to be very competitive in next years with Henning, Galli, Stohl or Gardemeister. The car was getting podiums with these drivers without factory support against better drivers with factory cars...

[swordsman]

]Marcus was driving completely different 307 than Stohl and Henning. In 2005 the car was fuly active but on crapy Pirellis. In 2006 it was mechanical with BFG tyres. The car wasn't that bad, it suffered very much from tyres in factory era. It prooved to be very competitive in next years with Henning, Galli, Stohl or Gardemeister. The car was getting podiums with these drivers without factory support against better drivers with factory cars...

I agree. We should add to this that the car has been updated with new homologated parts during the years. I attended a test with it last february and also went a few km's in the car and my impression was that the car exceeded the expectations of both me, the driver and the team.

[JFL]

I'm tired Swordman..hehe..
When Marcus drove it, it was a 4 speed gearbox in it to as I remember.. And the car has developed in many ways after henning drove it too.. great engine.. Looks like it something wrong with the geometri I think... Would be cool to see Petter in it, but I dont think that will happen! That would be the surprise of the year, anyways.:=)

[Helstar]

and not having the car changed over night.
Come on, do you really believe at these conspiracies theories ?
The Focus goes into parkferme and nobody can touch or get near it, and I think in the last day service Henning is there, looking accurately ... or not ?

[Mirek]

I'm tired Swordman..hehe..
When Marcus drove it, it was a 4 speed gearbox in it to as I remember.. And the car has developed in many ways after henning drove it too.. great engine.. Looks like it something wrong with the geometri I think... Would be cool to see Petter in it, but I dont think that will happen! That would be the surprise of the year, anyways.:=)

They didn't use 4-speed gearbox as far as I know in 2005 but in previous homologation only. They also used Peugeot Sport shock absorbers in that days which weren't used later...

[Zes]

I don't think Petter will drive an 307... It's too old and even more difficult to drive. Marcus never got the grips on it.. Neither did the rest of the Peugeot team. The only few who could drive it were Stohl and Galli an yes...Henning a bit to...

Marcus scored 3 victories +10podiums in 2004-2005 with 307. So were Stohl and Galli the only few who could drive it? Come on... If he would have had Michelins in 2005, he could have doubled the number of wins.

[swordsman]

]They didn't use 4-speed gearbox as far as I know in 2005 but in previous homologation only. They also used Peugeot Sport shock absorbers in that days which weren't used later...

True regarding both. The shock absorbers should be a big piece of improvement.

[Fischer]

I don't know if it's already posted but Gardemeister will drive a Abarth Grande Punto S2000 in the upcoming Monte Carlo rally.

[Tom206wrc]

It's discussed since long time in IRC section Fischer... ;)

[User]

Anyone knows what Galli is doing in 2009?

[Tomi]

Anyone knows what Galli is doing in 2009?

At least he is having the annual fan meeting i think.

[alleskids]

Peter van Merksteijn (senior) told during the Dakar rally that he really loved it, and he will do some rally raids with BMW in 2009. So he might do less than the planned 7 rallies. Peter junior will do the 7 rallies as planned

[swordsman]

Galli and Duval may still enter the Stobart team: http://www.maxattack.net

[Tom206wrc]

I hope both will do it !!! We need more good drivers in WRC09 !!!! :)

[DonJippo]

Duval may still enter the Stobart team: http://www.maxattack.net

I thought Duval is waiting someone to pay him to drive not the other way around?

[swordsman]

I thought Duval is waiting someone to pay him to drive not the other way around?

For sure he's waiting for a sponsor to pay him, aren't everyone? But a team, nope - don't think so...

[FabiaFan]

I was wondering...everybody's speculating who will drive last years Subarus, two years old Citroens, even 307s or Fabias, but there was no rumour at all anybody using the Suzukis???

[urabus-denoS2000]

I really hope at least one SX4 will stay in Hungary and it will be driven by a Hungarian driver ;)

[Karbonyl]

I think SX4 is still car "to be developed" than "to be rented"...

[G249XDP]

Any news on Deividas Jocius' plans for 2009?

I heard he wanted to use a Xsara WRC for Wales 08, does this mean he still owns T432?

[Tom206wrc]

http://www.autoklub.pl/22990,news.html


:confused:

[tolis]

http://www.autoklub.pl/22990,news.html


:confused:

I think it's an interview of Novikov(I don't know polish)!!! :( :( :(

[pettersolberg29]

Nice looking car whoever it is!

[Tom206wrc]

I think it's an interview of Novikov(I don't know polish)!!! :( :( :(



I know that ;)
But I don't understand what is said neither... :(

[PLuto]

Nothing important. Only that he wont start in Russian championship.

[Tom206wrc]

Nothing important. Only that he wont start in Russian championship.


OK...anyway who expected him to run russian championship on this forum ;)

What about czech championship in GrN(was the first rumour in same time as announcement of C4 in WRC for him) :confused:

[PLuto]

Yes, he will do Czech championship with Mitsubishi. I think it will be 5 rounds (out of 7).

[PLuto]

Old article about Novikov's start in Czech with bad english translation - http://translate.google.cz/translate?prev=&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autosport.cz%2Fclanek.php%3Fcl% 3D7783&sl=cs&tl=en&history_state0=

[Tom206wrc]

Yes, he will do Czech championship with Mitsubishi. I think it will be 5 rounds (out of 7).



As member of Citroën Junior Team I was hoping him in a 207 S2000 on czech championship :(

[PLuto]

He need to improve his skills on tarmac, not to fight for win.

[alleskids]

Van Merksteijn Motorosport has canceleld the order of a 3rd Focus WRC07 at M-Sport. WRcar are a dead end street, and Van Merksteijn does not fancy S2000, after they have droven WRCars. Eddie Chevaillier, the experience navigator, has great experience of both S200 and WRCar.
And besides that, Peter senior has been infected with the Dakar virus and will do a number of rally raids, probarly starting with the UAE Desert Challange or the Tunesie Rally to start with as preperation for Dakar 2010.

[Daniel]

Van Merksteijn Motorosport has canceleld the order of a 3rd Focus WRC07 at M-Sport. WRcar are a dead end street, and Van Merksteijn does not fancy S2000, after they have droven WRCars. Eddie Chevaillier, the experience navigator, has great experience of both S200 and WRCar.
And besides that, Peter senior has been infected with the Dakar virus and will do a number of rally raids, probarly starting with the UAE Desert Challange or the Tunesie Rally to start with as preperation for Dakar 2010.

Oh no! If we lose the rich people from the WRC what will we be left with? Works drivers? :bigcry:

[Roy]

Van Merksteijn Motorosport has canceleld the order of a 3rd Focus WRC07 at M-Sport. WRcar are a dead end street, and Van Merksteijn does not fancy S2000, after they have droven WRCars. Eddie Chevaillier, the experience navigator, has great experience of both S200 and WRCar.
And besides that, Peter senior has been infected with the Dakar virus and will do a number of rally raids, probarly starting with the UAE Desert Challange or the Tunesie Rally to start with as preperation for Dakar 2010.

Where do you find that info?
Van welke Nederlandstalige site? ;)

[Roy]

Oh no! If we lose the rich people from the WRC what will we be left with? Works drivers? :bigcry:

Which work drivers? :\

[Daniel]

Which work drivers? :\

I think you're missing the point of my post :)

[alleskids]

Eddie said it on Turbo Magazine:
Beroepsnavigator Chevallier( VM ) is een week te vroeg terug uit Argentinie. Het liep nochtans lekker tot op de 2e dag hij een fout maakte waardoor 10 minuten verloren gingen en men terugviel naar plaats 13.. Ook Tina deed diezelfde fout. En dan was er natuurlijk de brand ...op 2 minuten stond was alles over ..Eddy heeft aleen nog zijn zonnebril kunnen redden .. Maar goed er komt een vervolg. Dubai, Tunesie , Quatar alles lijkt een optie en Dakar 2010 is een zekerheid. Ondertussen werd de bestelling van de 3e Ford Focus Wrc geanuleerd bij M Sport. Het Wrc gebeuren is zo goed als dood aldus Eddy die wel in Noorwegen naast Merksteyn JR plaatsneemt. Het IRC ja maar een Super 2000 heeft niet zo een gevoel als een Wrc , en hij kan het weten ! Eddy rijd nog met Tsjoen in Belgie en Frankrijk en zelf af en toe met zijn Enduro 450.( Geert Grooten)

[alleskids]

Who are the guys that pay the works drivers salary? Is it the rich people hiring ex works cars ?

[Roy]

I think you're missing the point of my post :)

I think I did. But now? No

[swordsman]

Eddie said it on Turbo Magazine:
Beroepsnavigator Chevallier( VM ) is een week te vroeg terug uit Argentinie. Het liep nochtans lekker tot op de 2e dag hij een fout maakte waardoor 10 minuten verloren gingen en men terugviel naar plaats 13.. Ook Tina deed diezelfde fout. En dan was er natuurlijk de brand ...op 2 minuten stond was alles over ..Eddy heeft aleen nog zijn zonnebril kunnen redden .. Maar goed er komt een vervolg. Dubai, Tunesie , Quatar alles lijkt een optie en Dakar 2010 is een zekerheid. Ondertussen werd de bestelling van de 3e Ford Focus Wrc geanuleerd bij M Sport. Het Wrc gebeuren is zo goed als dood aldus Eddy die wel in Noorwegen naast Merksteyn JR plaatsneemt. Het IRC ja maar een Super 2000 heeft niet zo een gevoel als een Wrc , en hij kan het weten ! Eddy rijd nog met Tsjoen in Belgie en Frankrijk en zelf af en toe met zijn Enduro 450.( Geert Grooten)

Can anyone make a resume of this in English? Google's translation really sucks - I tried it :)

[Daniel]

Who are the guys that pay the works drivers salary? Is it the rich people hiring ex works cars ?

Perhaps these days but there was a point in the WRC's history when the teams were full of paid drivers and some teams like Mitsubishi didn't even need to bother with running privateers to fund the driving of Tommi. But back then the WRC was a product you could pour millions into

[DonJippo]

Perhaps these days but there was a point in the WRC's history when the teams were full of paid drivers and some teams like Mitsubishi didn't even need to bother with running privateers to fund the driving of Tommi.

No they had Freddy Loix with Marlboro money to fund Tommi's driving.

[Roy]

Van Merksteijn Motorosport has canceleld the order of a 3rd Focus WRC07 at M-Sport. WRcar are a dead end street, and Van Merksteijn does not fancy S2000, after they have droven WRCars. Eddie Chevaillier, the experience navigator, has great experience of both S200 and WRCar.
And besides that, Peter senior has been infected with the Dakar virus and will do a number of rally raids, probarly starting with the UAE Desert Challange or the Tunesie Rally to start with as preperation for Dakar 2010.


Eddie said it on Turbo Magazine:
Beroepsnavigator Chevallier( VM ) is een week te vroeg terug uit Argentinie. Het liep nochtans lekker tot op de 2e dag hij een fout maakte waardoor 10 minuten verloren gingen en men terugviel naar plaats 13.. Ook Tina deed diezelfde fout. En dan was er natuurlijk de brand ...op 2 minuten stond was alles over ..Eddy heeft aleen nog zijn zonnebril kunnen redden .. Maar goed er komt een vervolg. Dubai, Tunesie , Quatar alles lijkt een optie en Dakar 2010 is een zekerheid. Ondertussen werd de bestelling van de 3e Ford Focus Wrc geanuleerd bij M Sport. Het Wrc gebeuren is zo goed als dood aldus Eddy die wel in Noorwegen naast Merksteyn JR plaatsneemt. Het IRC ja maar een Super 2000 heeft niet zo een gevoel als een Wrc , en hij kan het weten ! Eddy rijd nog met Tsjoen in Belgie en Frankrijk en zelf af en toe met zijn Enduro 450.( Geert Grooten)

This is the same.

[Daniel]

No they had Freddy Loix with Marlboro money to fund Tommi's driving.

OK true :) But for instance Peugeot ran their 206's for a fair while and in some rallies had 4 cars all with top drivers in them and all paid :)

[alleskids]

Something about their holiday ending a bit too early, that the BMW X3CC burnt very fast, he only could save his sunglasses. Van Merksteijn is been hooked by the rally raids, and is looking at the options, which rally raid to do. They cancelled the 3rd Focuys WRC, IRC i snot an option, because the S2000 does not satisfy the need for speed and thrill. Chevailier knows the difference because he has done rallies in a S2000 and WRCar.

[swordsman]

Something about their holiday ending a bit too early, that the BMW X3CC burnt very fast, he only could save his sunglasses. Van Merksteijn is been hooked by the rally raids, and is looking at the options, which rally raid to do. They cancelled the 3rd Focuys WRC, IRC i snot an option, because the S2000 does not satisfy the need for speed and thrill. Chevailier knows the difference because he has done rallies in a S2000 and WRCar.

Thanks man! :)

[Tom206wrc]

Something about their holiday ending a bit too early, that the BMW X3CC burnt very fast, he only could save his sunglasses. Van Merksteijn is been hooked by the rally raids, and is looking at the options, which rally raid to do. They cancelled the 3rd Focuys WRC, IRC i snot an option, because the S2000 does not satisfy the need for speed and thrill. Chevailier knows the difference because he has done rallies in a S2000 and WRCar.



Therefore you can have fun running S2000 on IRC !!!! :s

[Mirek]

S2000 is not a car for gentleman driver. It has no turbo and without agressive styl, it's slow...

[PLuto]

If you want to race with S2000, you must be a good driver. With WRC can be fast everybody...

[Sulland]

If you want to race with S2000, you must be a good driver. With WRC can be fast everybody...

Hear hear !

Lets get Petter and Bosse in IRC this year !

[RS]

If you want to race with S2000, you must be a good driver. With WRC can be fast everybody...

Yes, that is the real reason why they don't want to drive an S2000. I can imagine a well driven S2000 would be faster than them in their Focus WRCs.

Tirabassi seemed slower in IRC than when he drove for Subaru on Catalunya and Corsica last year too.

[Helstar]

No they had Freddy Loix with Marlboro money to fund Tommi's driving.
Pwned ^^

[noel157]

Loeb interview at Rally Ireland test (he's coming to Monte Carlo...)

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/loeb-is-getting-to-grips-with-an-irish-test-14138895.html

[jbmarcus21]

Hear hear !

Lets get Petter and Bosse in IRC this year !

yes it will be great for sure !

[Gard]

Petter is meeting with Fiat today :-)

[Daniel]

Petter is meeting with Fiat today :-)

In regards to running the C4's he bought here? :D


http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=574885&postcount=515

[rx-guru]

About the financial/economical crisis and its effect on motorsport:

Marc Surer, the ex F1 pilot as well as a quite respected rally driver for a couple of years pointed out in his columne in the Swiss newspaper MOTORSPORT aktuell of yesterday that Honda, Suzuki and Subaru had left F1 respectively the WRC because of being constantly unsuccessful. As Japanese people always taking care "not to loose the face" the financial crisis gave them a very good opportunity to blame the current situation rather than… At least an interesting point of view.

[Barreis]

After Subaru pullout does anybody know something about ex. Finland winner Martin?

[Roy]

About the financial/economical crisis and its effect on motorsport:

Marc Surer, the ex F1 pilot as well as a quite respected rally driver for a couple of years pointed out in his columne in the Swiss newspaper MOTORSPORT aktuell of yesterday that Honda, Suzuki and Subaru had left F1 respectively the WRC because of being constantly unsuccessful. As Japanese people always taking care "not to loose the face" the financial crisis gave them a very good opportunity to blame the current situation rather than… At least an interesting point of view.

I drop that idea earlier on this Forum. And it a lot of sense to me.

[cali]

Estonian Gr.N champion Ott Tänak will do 3 domestic events, but main focus is to get experience from foreign rallies. Mentioned is Portugal and they are thinking about entering various events in WRC and IRC. Ott is Markko Märtin's protege, he is driving in MM Motorsport team (owned by Markko) and Markko does the selection of rallies for him. main worry is to raise the budget, but Ott seemed to be optimistic about money. Will see, but for sure he is fast and spectacular to watch.

Link (http://sport.postimees.ee/?id=71283)

[urabus-denoS2000]

Tanak in Subaru?

[cali]

Tanak in Subaru?
Yep
Pic of Ott in action (http://motorsport.ee/?id=gal&g=68810)