[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[rallyfiend]

Tanak last years signed for 3 years with ford.. Maybe just agreement with Ford

No, it was an M-Sport deal. Not a Ford one.

[vino_93]

One new guy in WRC : Motortune & Smart Performance Reveal 2013 International Racing Schedule | Biser3a (http://biser3a.com/international-rallies/wrc/motortune-smart-performance-reveal-2013-international-racing-schedule/)
eWRC-results.com - profile Ala'a Rasheed (http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=21384&t=Ala-a-Rasheed)

[rallyfiend]

One new guy in WRC : Motortune & Smart Performance Reveal 2013 International Racing Schedule | Biser3a (http://biser3a.com/international-rallies/wrc/motortune-smart-performance-reveal-2013-international-racing-schedule/)
eWRC-results.com - profile Ala'a Rasheed (http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=21384&t=Ala-a-Rasheed)

Smile lads, it's supposed to be a good occasion!

[EightGear]

Subaru zieht es auf die Rundstrecke*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/11/26/subaru-zieht-es-auf-die-rundstrecke/index.html)

Subaru will most likely choose WTCC instead of WRC... :(

[skarderud]

Subaru zieht es auf die Rundstrecke*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/11/26/subaru-zieht-es-auf-die-rundstrecke/index.html)

Subaru will most likely choose WTCC instead of WRC... :(

Not the best PR people in that company? Wtcc is even more dead and boring than wrc.....

[HaCo]

That could change very fast: Honda, Subaru, Renault, Citroen, ...

[skarderud]

Everything is posible of course, but standard-racing is boring anyway.
and Subaru has its soul in rallying, not in racing.
is it cheaper?

[Mirek]

Everything is posible of course, but standard-racing is boring anyway.
and Subaru has its soul in rallying, not in racing.
is it cheaper?

For us it's boring but if I ask at my work most of the people tell me that they prefer watching F1 than WRC (I actually did ask).

[rallyfiend]

For us it's boring but if I ask at my work most of the people tell me that they prefer watching F1 than WRC (I actually did ask).

The WTCC is a LONG way from F1...

People think there's too many paying drivers in WRC. They should take a look at the WTCC - the 2012 Champion has no drive and is having to make public appeals for a sponsor / team / drive!!

[skarderud]

Well, F1 last years isn't too bad, but against wtcc its like a dakar-car against a traktor.
Wrc is another story :)

[Mirek]

I rarely watch circuit races but for me WTCC is about same excitement as the F1. The speed is sure completely different but I can hardly feel it from watching TV. Maybe I'm strange but even in Moto GP which I watch quite often I find Moto 3 and Moto 2 races usually more exciting than the main Moto GP one.

[Barreis]

Circuit races are more popular then rally these days. :P

[nafpaktos]

Nice news about Mad Mads!
Next year will be difficult for him, he have to fight about wins as Msport official crew.Wish all the best for sympathetic Mads.
Until now i have never been impressed by mads performance-speed.Of course when you are the leader to a top-official wrc team you should ba albe to claim wins but i believe mads is not capable of this.I'm sure that wilson is aware of this but since malcolm is intrested only for the survival of his team the only thing he wants is some extra money.To my mind he is just a mediocre driver.He has never shown the potential (even in one rally-leg ,)that he has the potential to be a top driver.(his performance in spain the first day was because of the weather conditions).If someone does not have the speed at his age i don't think he can acquire it in the future.ALL the top drivers at his age had already the necessary speed to claim wins.What is your opinion for mads abilities?to your mind what is the best that he can achive in the future?As you said before the next year will difficult for him but what is you prediction.Τhanks!!

[nafpaktos]

i wrote above top-official wrc team,msport now is not exactly this.

[steffforno]

No, it was an M-Sport deal. Not a Ford one.

Yes.. M Sport... I mean Ford M sport . Sorry!

[Wasted Talent]

....but since malcolm is intrested only for the survival of his team the only thing he wants is some extra money.

I just cannot understand why people think that Wilson doing his best to keep MSport in the WRC is wrong.

He is a vital local employer of people in a very competitive high-tech business, he is keeping another team in the WRC, and providing cars and parts etc to lots of other teams and drivers across the world.

People should be glad that there are going to be competitive WRC Fiestas next year, not continually slagging MSport off

WT

[dimviii]

Until now i have never been impressed by mads performance-speed.Of course when you are the leader to a top-official wrc team you should ba albe to claim wins but i believe mads is not capable of this.I'm sure that wilson is aware of this but since malcolm is intrested only for the survival of his team the only thing he wants is some extra money.To my mind he is just a mediocre driver.He has never shown the potential (even in one rally-leg ,)that he has the potential to be a top driver.(his performance in spain the first day was because of the weather conditions).If someone does not have the speed at his age i don't think he can acquire it in the future.ALL the top drivers at his age had already the necessary speed to claim wins.What is your opinion for mads abilities?to your mind what is the best that he can achive in the future?As you said before the next year will difficult for him but what is you prediction.Τhanks!!

To clear up....Mads definetely haven t got the speed of Mikko,Seb,Jarri,Petter,at any surface bar snow.But after these 4 works drivers for 2012 i can t think anyone better overall.Novikov some times fast,sometimes out of road,sometimes slow.Tanak same as Novikov.Neuville same as previous 2 rookies.
The most important point for these 3 rookies is that we didnt saw any significant progress.Sometimes we saw some progress till next rally where they were slow-out of road etc.
Mads was the rookie with the most progress from all above.Always inside the road,with not at all slow times.
My prediction? I dont ''ask'' from him ie to beat Loeb at Monte,but if he continue the progress(speed wise) we saw this year he will definetely play a big role at 2013.We have to think that this year was with almost not practice at all.
Lets see with practice before every rally now as a works driver,the progress he will demonstrate.2013 will be a little bit different though,with pressure for speed at any surface,not just good placings cause of others failures.
Definetely i would choose him too if i was at Malcolms position,and with Sebs,Jarri,Dani,Mikko not free.
He deserved the seat more than others free drivers.

[dimviii]

I just cannot understand why people think that Wilson doing his best to keep MSport in the WRC is wrong.
Nobody said that it is wrong to keep Msport at wrc.


He is a vital local employer of people in a very competitive high-tech business, he is keeping another team in the WRC, and providing cars and parts etc to lots of other teams and drivers across the world.

People should be glad that there are going to be competitive WRC Fiestas next year, not continually slagging MSport off

WT
we have to be glad that he will sell-rent about 100 fiestas next year?
No i am not glad,i would prefere the money from sales of 2 wrc fiestas,or 4 rented wrc rallies to pay a driver that he could win championship.

[RS]

Mads was the rookie with the most progress from all above.Always inside the road,with not at all slow times.


Is he really a rookie though? He's been around quite a few years now...

[rp]

Mads was the rookie with the most progress from all above.

Definetely he is not any rookie. Mads has competed in the WRC since 2006 and has already 52 WRC-events.

Novikov 36, Tänak 30, Neuville 19. By the way Ogier has 58 (vs Latvala 117), Mikkelsen 30, Hänninen 33 and Paddon 25...

[dimviii]

yes no rookie by the absolute mean,but very close with Novikov and Tanak.

[Mintexmemory]

Definetely he is not any rookie. Mads has competed in the WRC since 2006 and has already 52 WRC-events.

Novikov 36, Tänak 30, Neuville 19. By the way Ogier has 58 (vs Latvala 117), Mikkelsen 30, Hänninen 33 and Paddon 25...

It is misleading to quote WRC -events as opposed to WRC in a WRC car - Tanak then drops to 14 IIRC and Ogier and Mikkelsen's 2012 season doesn't count.


Anyway in a possible 4-way team contest we may see a situation next year where the most wins doesn't take WDC and a string of lower podiums may be crucial!

[Nornbugger]

Nobody said that it is wrong to keep Msport at wrc.


we have to be glad that he will sell-rent about 100 fiestas next year?
No i am not glad,i would prefere the money from sales of 2 wrc fiestas,or 4 rented wrc rallies to pay a driver that he could win championship.


And do you think Malcolm wouldnt? puzzled as to what you are trying to say here?

[Barreis]

That's why Malcolm has castle. :D

[dimviii]

And do you think Malcolm wouldnt? puzzled as to what you are trying to say here?

i am not trying to say something,i ve said that plenty of times.

[Nornbugger]

That's why Malcolm has castle. :D

Ok, and what about the team bosses who couldnt cut it running a team in WRC, are they all living in poverty? feck I may even send Mr Richards a tin of beans or something for his Xmas dinner if you can give me his address?

[Nornbugger]

i am not trying to say something,i ve said that plenty of times.

Am I correct in thinking you are Greek?

[dimviii]

Ok, and what about the team bosses who couldnt cut it running a team in WRC, are they all living in poverty? feck I may even send Mr Richards a tin of beans or something for his Xmas dinner if you can give me his address?

sent the beans to Malcolm.Even Qatar havent got enough money to buy no1 drivers.

[dimviii]

Am I correct in thinking you are Greek?

yes,why?

[Nornbugger]

yes,why?


just a hunch confirmed, your country has special thoughts when it comes to finances :D

[dimviii]

just a hunch confirmed, your country has special thoughts when it comes to finances :D

good one :D

[Rallyper]

Until now i have never been impressed by mads performance-speed.Of course when you are the leader to a top-official wrc team you should ba albe to claim wins but i believe mads is not capable of this.I'm sure that wilson is aware of this but since malcolm is intrested only for the survival of his team the only thing he wants is some extra money.To my mind he is just a mediocre driver.He has never shown the potential (even in one rally-leg ,)that he has the potential to be a top driver.(his performance in spain the first day was because of the weather conditions).If someone does not have the speed at his age i don't think he can acquire it in the future.ALL the top drivers at his age had already the necessary speed to claim wins.What is your opinion for mads abilities?to your mind what is the best that he can achive in the future?As you said before the next year will difficult for him but what is you prediction.Τhanks!!

Mads definitely was handicapped by having a car less developed than the Fiestas of JML and Petter. Remember Greece at PS mads were hundreds of a second behind JML. Equal cars he´d been ahead of JML and third. Having said that you can´t expect him to win over the big boys regarding the technical differences.

[Barreis]

Don't expect that fiesta will be faster next season, can only be weaker without works support. So for sure ford boys won't be champs in the end.

[Wasted Talent]

Don't expect that fiesta will be faster next season, can only be weaker without works support. So for sure ford boys won't be champs in the end.

Not necessarily true - what input did Ford have apart from budget (I don't know)......

WT

[Barreis]

If they didn't win on normal bases this season, how will be next?!

[rallye-vid]

The teams can homologate new WRC parts without an official support from manufacturer.. That's what FIA changed for next year.#
So M-Sport can go on with the money from Qatar.

[Xsara Fan]

Ott Tanak will take part in 9 events with M-Sport.
Source: https://www.facebook.com/otttanakworldchampion

[pettersolberg29]

Ott Tanak will take part in 9 events with M-Sport.
Source: https://www.facebook.com/otttanakworldchampion

Is this official Qatar M-Sport, or just in an M-Sport run Fiesta do you know?

[mousti]

I'm very sure he won't get an 'official' seat ;)

[Xsara Fan]

Is this official Qatar M-Sport, or just in an M-Sport run Fiesta do you know?

I don`t think it`s an official Qatar M-Sport car. More than that - I`m not sure that it`s World Rally Championship ;)

[bluuford]

I don`t think it`s an official Qatar M-Sport car. More than that - I`m not sure that it`s World Rally Championship ;)

It will be M-Sport junior team.. same rumor says that Neuville does 9 events in the same team..

[Kielder]

Two new guys are starting from scratch in the office. :D

http://i48.tinypic.com/2hed4dw.jpg

[mousti]

Sordo is already demoted again in the team!

Verstuurd van mijn SK17i met Tapatalk

[Xsara Fan]

From twitter: Petter said that Wilson asked to him 2-3 million euro for a second seat on Ford. M-Sport won't pay any salary

[AndyRAC]

From twitter: Petter said that Wilson asked to him 2-3 million euro for a second seat on Ford. M-Sport won't pay any salary

How much. What a joke. Okay, so Petter hasn’t had a great year, but he’s a former WRChampion. Did Schumacher have to pay for his Mercedes drive?
One day, the top drivers will actually get paid in the WRC....

[Francis44]

Petter had an horrible season. Many are showing great improvements and had a proper good season and they aren't getting seats, so it's easy to understand why official teams are not getting him signed.

[bluuford]

From twitter: Petter said that Wilson asked to him 2-3 million euro for a second seat on Ford. M-Sport won't pay any salary
Someone must pay for destroyed electric poles, broken wheels, suspensions, steering parts. Basically Wilson said that he is not interested, but at the same time offered better deal than Citroen usually does.

[Xsara Fan]

How much. What a joke. Okay, so Petter hasn’t had a great year, but he’s a former WRChampion. Did Schumacher have to pay for his Mercedes drive?
One day, the top drivers will actually get paid in the WRC....

After another bad season Mercedes thrown Schumacher into the street. M-Sport did the same with Petter.

[Barreis]

M-sport sucks.

[6789]

So second seat at M-Sport will go to the highest bidder? I hope M-Sport do well next year, I like them as a team

[mousti]

Xsara fan, did they offer something to Evgeny yet? And what want ALM itself for next season?

[Donalduck]

Mads Østberg said i an interview right now that Novikov, Neuville and Solberg are the strongest candidates for the second seat at M-sport. VG Nett - Tett på Nett: Mads Østberg svarer deg! - VG Nett (http://tpn.vg.no/intervju/mads-oestberg-svarer-deg/2841)

[Rallyper]

From twitter: Petter said that Wilson asked to him 2-3 million euro for a second seat on Ford. M-Sport won't pay any salary

So Wilson raised the sum for 2013. Last four years Petter paid about one million Euros a year according to norweigan newspaper. Next year he don´t want to pay at all. Just drive for free.

MW is a fool not to accept that, because of the different circumstances coming up for the championship, eg. Loeb won´t drive all season JML ans Ogier in new car, etz.

[6789]

I'd rate Solberg as the best choice out of those three

[Cacatua]

Someone must pay for destroyed electric poles, broken wheels, suspensions, steering parts. Basically Wilson said that he is not interested, but at the same time offered better deal than Citroen usually does.

Exactly, the mission of any company is to make profits.

[Mintexmemory]

So Wilson raised the sum for 2013. Last four years Petter paid about one million Euros a year according to norweigan newspaper. Next year he don´t want to pay at all. Just drive for free.

MW is a fool not to accept that, because of the different circumstances coming up for the championship, eg. Loeb won´t drive all season JML ans Ogier in new car, etz.

Ok, I understand the emotional tug that seeing Petter in WRC has for many. For me being out of the rally scene from 87 - 06 (what a waste of a life!) I never formed that attachment to Petter. Since 06 I see a guy who's best days are behind him. Last WRC win in 2005! For all the reasons you care to find that is still one hell of a long period not to have come up with the goods, hell JML only has to DNF in 3 events before people start crucifying him!
Malcolm has watched Petter closely for a year, not just in the events but testing too! He needs to balance the cost of running the team against the likelihood of getting wins and clearly he believes that Petters personality alone is not enough to sustain the team's progress. Malcolm Wilson may be many things - overly parental certainly (that might be considered foolish), but he is a shrewd judge of talent (Matthew aside) and has done the sums which mean, aside from Mads, anyone who wants the other M-Sport seat must pay x amount

[alleskids]

Petter had his best change for years, with the factory Ford. He had many changes for succes this year, even for a win, but he pissed on these oppertunities, now he has to pay (literaly) for these mistakes he made while. Had he taken the winning changes, maybe Ford would have stayed, cause they could hardly withstand the impact a winning Solberg would have made in the media. Petter has to pay for his mistakes, and the stepping back from Ford.
Petter has lost his charmes, his winning talent is just a ghost form the past, he is no special anymore, just a regular custmer

[Rallyper]

I agree he blew many chances this year. No one can denie that. And I for sure want other talented drivers to be a part of the WRC. But for the moment we have 4-6 fast drivers able to win a wrc-round. Petter is amongst them and the only one not having a seat at the moment.

The others are talented, but not mature enough and what is important still having sponsors paying.

I hope Petter will get the money, because for sure MW won´t let him drive without paying in one way or another. But - WRC needs Petter in the circus.

(And btw I´m sure insurances pays for the damaged cars and elecric poles...)

[Barreis]

It's not problem to step back from ford, not winning car anyway. But it's better then mini.

[A FONDO]

ford, not winning car anyway.

:D :D :D

[Viking]

Does anyone think Østberg, Novikov, Tanak or Neuville will chrash less than Petter going at the same speed or is it okay for Wilson and the sponsors (Quatar) to "go slow" and collect 5th and 6th places after Citroen and VW??

[Iskald]

Until now i have never been impressed by mads performance-speed.To my mind he is just a mediocre driver.

I can`t really understand why I`m bothering with this....But, mediocre driver??? Mads Østberg??? If I should rate your post, it would be s strong candidate for a "Joke of the Year"-award!
I will however not bother to discuss your arguments, it will just be useless...

[andyone]

one thing ill say is. im a Very Big Fun of Petter. but his age and his time on wrc and he still gets beaten by new comers and young drivers. this means he don't have any more room to learn. that is what he has got. and he is not a winner.. someone like Novikov. he is young and can learn. so if it was me i would have gone for Novikov. i love petter but that is the reality..

[steffforno]

Colin Clark said: Talk this morning is that Tanak has budget for 9 WRC events next year with limited support from M-Sport. Anyone know anymore?

[dimviii]

From twitter: Petter said that Wilson asked to him 2-3 million euro for a second seat on Ford. M-Sport won't pay any salary

WTF? Qatar bankrupt?

[EightGear]

WTF? Qatar bakrupt?

So Qatar are willing to pay for Neuville, but Solberg has to bring money himself? :rolleyes:

[Wasted Talent]

So Qatar are willing to pay for Neuville, but Solberg has to bring money himself? :rolleyes:

Maybe Neuville brings money himself

MSport is not a charity and Qatar will be putting a fixed amount of money in to promote their country, so the shortfall has to be made up by sponsors/money brought by drivers.

Unfortunately Petter has not done himself any favours last season, far too many needless accidents, leading to damage that someone has to pay for

WT

[Rallyper]

WTF? Qatar bankrupt?

Yes, I was about to say the same, because the money from Qatar should mean MW can support nonpaying drivers. At least two of them, and Petter should be the second. I´m sure Mads didn´t have to bring money this time.

[Frostmourne]

Sorry guys if this question sound stupid, I am not very familiar with sponsorhips/contracts things. But in Peter Solberg twitter, was he saying that he has to pay 2-3 millions for the 2nd spot in Qatar M-Sport team? or what exactly.

It is sad for me seeing some WRC drivers struggle to get the money, and alot of teams and manufacturers are withdrawing from WRC (I wished Mini stayed as a manufacturer). I wish if they can make the money like those greedy F1 teams!!

[tommeke_B]

Mads Ostberg has a future and great potential. Regarding his huge progress this year, especially on asphalt he could become one of the very top drivers. Petter had a great carreer, great achievements, and he's still fast. But from now on I think his prestations can only decline. It's good that M-Sport is looking forward in stead of wanting to have "a big name" in the team, Ostberg, Novikov and Tanak are the guys they will have to rely on in 2-3-... years, if they want to win events.

[GigiGalliNo1]

We cannot speculate that Qatar is funding enough money for M-Sport to give one let alone two drivers a car and the drivers NOT paying M-Sport for the seat! Does anyone know how much M-Sport got from Qatar? No! So we can't say someone is being greedy or not

[Viking]

For those who miss N.O.T comments, i can give it a try...


I´m sure Mads didn´t have to bring money this time.

LOL!! :D

[Rallyper]

For those who miss N.O.T comments, i can give it a try...



LOL!! :D

I´m not sure if I misunderstand something here. What´s so funny.

Mads clearly said the other day he won´t pay for driving next year.

And if he did it´s even more peculiar that M-sport can´t fund drivers line up with sponsormoney from Qatar. Or does all the money only pay for the setup of the team? Or in the pocket of MW?

[ToughMac]

Hard to say which direction M Sport should take, o.k. you have two young and up coming talents in Ostberg and Novikov. Very quick young guys but would they qualify as team leaders? Its one thing running as a private entry trying to get good results where there isn't really any pressure but to score points for what is a works team i'm afraid it could lead to a lot more bent bodyshells.

[tommeke_B]

He won't pay... That does not mean that he doesn't take any other sponsors (that he already had this year) to the team. ;)

[Mirek]

So Wilson raised the sum for 2013. Last four years Petter paid about one million Euros a year according to norweigan newspaper. Next year he don´t want to pay at all. Just drive for free.

MW is a fool not to accept that, because of the different circumstances coming up for the championship, eg. Loeb won´t drive all season JML ans Ogier in new car, etz.

How do You know MW could run the second official car without those money? We speak about 3 million Euro which is not any pocket money which can be easily replaced by other/in-house funding.

[Mirek]

I can`t really understand why I`m bothering with this....But, mediocre driver??? Mads Østberg??? If I should rate your post, it would be s strong candidate for a "Joke of the Year"-award!
I will however not bother to discuss your arguments, it will just be useless...

By the way point/start ratio in 2012 says quite a lot...

Ostberg 13,56
JML 12,83
Solberg 9,54

[Rallyper]

How do You know MW could run the second official car without those money? We speak about 3 million Euro which is not any pocket money which can be easily replaced by other/in-house funding.

Again we´re talking about a sponsorship deal with Qatar which has blown up in media as the replacement for Ford-money. That would be enough. If it´s pocket money from Qatar, then we´ll know what´s gonna happen with M-sport. On their way out from WRC...

I think one is beginning to see that is happening, I´m afraid to say...

[Mirek]

How do You know that some article in the media about how much Qatar gives M-Sport is true?

[Barreis]

WRC is really sick dog when top drivers have to pay for drive. :D

[Mintexmemory]

WRC is really sick dog when top drivers have to pay for drive. :D
No all the winners from 2012 have a paid drive! (and some winners from 2011 and IRC and Sordo). All those who didn't are fighting over the scraps ;)

[Barreis]

Yeah but 2 or 3 million for 13 long weekends?! :D

[nr7wave]

No all the winners from 2012 have a paid drive! (and some winners from 2011 and IRC and Sordo). All those who didn't are fighting over the scraps ;)

Mads "won" Portugal. He dose not have a paid drive.

[jbmarcus21]

Full Gallery [PHOTOS] Test Days team VW (Ogier+JML) at Mexico Le Team VW en Test sur Terre (http://planetemarcus.com/le-team-vw-en-test-sur-terre-au-mexique/)

[Mintexmemory]

Mads "won" Portugal. He dose not have a paid drive.

A paid drive is one where the driver is paid to drive
A paying drive is one where the driver pays the team - Now in all this Petter confusion I may have lost sight of the facts - If Mads isn't being paid to drive how much is he paying M-Sport (which is something I thought he was saying that he was not going to do this year)?

[dimviii]

i really dont think that Mads is payed from Msport.I think that he has to pay to drive(sponsors).Just think that Jari and Mikko last year(with Ford backing) were payed some hundrets thousants only.
Malcolm is at wrc to earn.This is his main concern.Try to understant it.Said it plenty of times.
He dont care if he win championships.Just to be present at wrc to rent sell some 50 cars per year 500.000 each.
Tired to hear moaning about no budget.
Really is there anybody that believes that Qatar sponsored Msport for 2013 for ie 1or 2 millions when Nasser just for his entries must pay some 2-3 millions?

[EightGear]

i really dont think that Mads is payed from Msport.I think that he has to pay to drive(sponsors).Just think that Jari and Mikko last year(with Ford backing) were payed some hundrets thousants only.
Malcolm is at wrc to earn.This is his main concern.Try to understant it.Said it plenty of times.
He dont care if he win championships.Just to be present at wrc to rent sell some 50 cars per year 500.000 each.
Tired to hear moaning about no budget.
Really is there anybody that believes that Qatar sponsored Msport for 2013 for ie 1or 2 millions when Nasser just for his entries must pay some 2-3 millions?

A lot of income doensn't automatically mean high profit.

[Viking]

A paid drive is one where the driver is paid to drive
A paying drive is one where the driver pays the team - Now in all this Petter confusion I may have lost sight of the facts - If Mads isn't being paid to drive how much is he paying M-Sport (which is something I thought he was saying that he was not going to do this year)?

I think what "the Østbergs" said was that they where not prepered to pay up more from their own pockets (as in topping up Mads's sponsor budget with "hard earned and taxed real money").

Whats in the deal only Wilson and Østberg knows (Morten Østberg that is).. Could be something like "you drive for free but bring sponsors for 1 mill euro to pay for hospitality, vages and travel, by doing so you also get an 10% discount on parts to the Adapta team"

[skarderud]

mads have open spaces for his own sponsors on the car, so he hardly get any salary. but i dont think he pays to drive eighter, qatar does that.

[dimviii]

A lot of income doensn't automatically mean high profit.

yes if the goods you sell-rent are with some 5-10% profit.

[steffforno]

How much. What a joke. Okay, so Petter hasn’t had a great year, but he’s a former WRChampion. Did Schumacher have to pay for his Mercedes drive?
One day, the top drivers will actually get paid in the WRC....

You remember that Ford M sport is a Private Team!!! They will run with with Qatar's money.. And Petter for me is still a big drivers but is too dangerous and in this time is much expansive broken always the car..

[EightGear]

yes if the goods you sell-rent are with some 5-10% profit.

Yes but then it also depends on how the cost price is built up and how much fixed costs the company has.

Oh wait this is a forum about rallying. :s mokin:

[ToughMac]

Anyone know what Abu Dhabi are paying Citroen next year? Considering the WRC has a new promoter for the new season and both teams are being sponsored by very affluent countries rather than by companies 3 million pounds doesn't sound like a lot of money, pocket change really. Just for the record does anyone know how much red bull have put into Citroen year on year and how much they put into F1 year on year? With VW around next year viewing figures are going to go significantly up meaning more exposure, more revenue for countries such as Abu Dhabi and Qatar - 3 million sounds like a very small investment.

[AndyRAC]

I think what "the Østbergs" said was that they where not prepered to pay up more from their own pockets (as in topping up Mads's sponsor budget with "hard earned and taxed real money").

Whats in the deal only Wilson and Østberg knows (Morten Østberg that is).. Could be something like "you drive for free but bring sponsors for 1 mill euro to pay for hospitality, vages and travel, by doing so you also get an 10% discount on parts to the Adapta team"

Mads shouldn't have to be paying for all of that. Isn't that what Qatar are providing sponsorship for?

[Rallyper]

Anyone know what Abu Dhabi are paying Citroen next year? Considering the WRC has a new promoter for the new season and both teams are being sponsored by very affluent countries rather than by companies 3 million pounds doesn't sound like a lot of money, pocket change really. Just for the record does anyone know how much red bull have put into Citroen year on year and how much they put into F1 year on year? With VW around next year viewing figures are going to go significantly up meaning more exposure, more revenue for countries such as Abu Dhabi and Qatar - 3 million sounds like a very small investment.

The conclusion after your say is that M-sport funding quite a lot of money from Qatar? Am I right on that? pocket money would not even be mentioned like the deal with Qatar was.

If so, then the discussion above means MW should have the money enough to keep two top driver in the team, not having to pay for their driving. Of course the drivers bargain from sponsors but I think that is for their personal benefit only, meaning if necessary MW doesn´t have to pay but not also need to have money for his two top drivers.

[stefanvv]

Oh wait this is a forum about rallying. :s mokin:

Yes it is indeed :D . But I also think M-Sport is doing more business than pursuit of the championship crowns. This is not bad thing of course, but the reinvestment seems not to be at the proper level I think. Always complaining for lack of funding... I'm also got sick of that. We should be grateful on the other hand probably Ford has been around for so many years, otherwise we could watch "real" one man show with Mr. Loeb and Citroen. Hopefully with Qatar's money that will change though and we see some progress in championship fights, at least for Ostberg's sake, he is promising driver imho. Now will be even more difficult with VW entering the show though...

[vkangas]

Anyone know what Abu Dhabi are paying Citroen next year? Considering the WRC has a new promoter for the new season and both teams are being sponsored by very affluent countries rather than by companies 3 million pounds doesn't sound like a lot of money, pocket change really. Just for the record does anyone know how much red bull have put into Citroen year on year and how much they put into F1 year on year? With VW around next year viewing figures are going to go significantly up meaning more exposure, more revenue for countries such as Abu Dhabi and Qatar - 3 million sounds like a very small investment.
In one of the recent issues of Vauhdin Maailma there was a number that Abu Dhabi will pay about half of the budget. The deal of course generates also some costs. Based on my personal assumptions without any inside info I'd say Citroen's budget could be somewhere near 50M a year.

[skarderud]

Citroën budget is a bit over 100m as far i concern. Atleast a couple of yrs ago.

[skarderud]

Redbull use near 1/2 billion onF1 :)

[OldF]

In the series ”Engineering the World Rally” (part 6) by Discovery Channel, they said that the Prodrive’s budget for season 2006 was 50 million Euros. The costs have of course increased from those days.

Just wondering if there are two different budgets. The budget for manufacturer teams like Citroen and VW which don’t have to make any profit and the budget for teams run by private companies, budget – profit = true budget.

[jbmarcus21]

Legend François Delecour had tested Mini Wrc
François Delecour a testé la Mini Wrc (http://planetemarcus.com/francois-delecour-a-teste-la-mini-wrc/)

[ToughMac]

In one of the recent issues of Vauhdin Maailma there was a number that Abu Dhabi will pay about half of the budget. The deal of course generates also some costs. Based on my personal assumptions without any inside info I'd say Citroen's budget could be somewhere near 50M a year.

With these figures being bandied about its a wonder M-Sport were competitive at all. If Hyundai and Toyota come back with full factory efforts in 2014 its hard to see M-Sport continuing in WRC after next year. Hard to know what Prodrive are going to do, engine is still being developed by BMW but it will be hard to be competitive against proper works teams.

[Allyc85]

Redbull use near 1/2 billion onF1 :)

Nothing like that! In the last few years of unrestricted spending Toyota and Ferrari were spending 250 million euros tops.

Any who back to rallying, has anyone heard anything from the promotors as its under 50 days till the new season!

[Francis44]

Abu-Dhabi must be paying a fortune to Citroen. They will run Hirvonnen and Sordo full season (Sordo not confirmed yet for all season as far as I know), plus Loeb and Al Qassimi for small programs. If they sign Neuville than that's other 8 or 9 rally's. That must be some huge cost. I wouldn't be surprised if Citroen budget is well above 50 million.

[stefanvv]

Hard to know what Prodrive are going to do, engine is still being developed by BMW but it will be hard to be competitive against proper works teams.

Prodrive are taking over engine development from now on I think.

[skarderud]

Nothing like that! In the last few years of unrestricted spending Toyota and Ferrari were spending 250 million euros tops.

Any who back to rallying, has anyone heard anything from the promotors as its under 50 days till the new season!

they have 2 teams, and sponsoring different venues and happenings, pluss "sponsoring" bernie. Not that far away :)

[Padowa]

Mads definitely was handicapped by having a car less developed than the Fiestas of JML and Petter. Remember Greece at PS mads were hundreds of a second behind JML. Equal cars he´d been ahead of JML and third. Having said that you can´t expect him to win over the big boys regarding the technical differences.

What are the technical differences between the Jari-Matti and Petter cars compared to Mads car?

[Xsara Fan]

Xsara fan, did they offer something to Evgeny yet? And what want ALM itself for next season?

At the moment we are negotiating with different teams. We want Evgeny to take part in whole championship.

[Wasted Talent]

Redbull use near 1/2 billion onF1 :)

I very much doubt that....

McLaren Group TOTAL turnover in 2011 was £239m, that includes McLaren Racing, McLaren Electronics and McLaren Applied Technologies

McLaren profits race ahead as F1 brings off-track success - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/good-news/9702148/McLaren-profits-race-ahead-as-F1-brings-off-track-success.html)

WT

[EightGear]

McLaren Group TOTAL turnover in 2011 was £239m, that includes McLaren Racing, McLaren Electronics and McLaren Applied Technologies


WT

And turnover doesn't say anything about how much money they spent... :D

[Xsara Fan]

Does anyone think Østberg, Novikov, Tanak or Neuville will chrash less than Petter going at the same speed or is it okay for Wilson and the sponsors (Quatar) to "go slow" and collect 5th and 6th places after Citroen and VW??

Do you understand that private drivers must work harder to fight with factory drivers? Privateer cars are heavier (Novikov`s car was 15 kg heavier than factory cars this year) & downgraded so when Mads, Evgeny, Ott or Thierry wins the stage - it`s a VERY GOOD result. When factory driver push at 95-100%, privateer must push at 110-120%. Unfortunately due to this fact the risk of accidents increased.

[Nornbugger]

If we had this forum at the end of 91 would people have been crying that Prodrive had dropped Markku Alen to let McRae move up to WRC? They took a punt on a talent, paid off alright for them too but the short term thinking that would see Petter in a works seat next year is the same thinking as would have robbed some of our finest drivers from getting a break.(and I'm sure many will agreee that over seasons 92/93 Markku could have delivered as many points)

[sollitt]

Does anyone think Østberg, Novikov, Tanak or Neuville will chrash less than Petter going at the same speed or is it okay for Wilson and the sponsors (Quatar) to "go slow" and collect 5th and 6th places after Citroen and VW??You don't and won't know the answer to this until you test it. What we do know is that, as much as we all like Petter, he has developed a habit of failing to finish events, which is likely to continue. You will not know whether any other driver can do better until you give them that opportunity. What you do know is that they cannot do any worse than fail to finish events.

[Gard]

You don't and won't know the answer to this until you test it. What we do know is that, as much as we all like Petter, he has developed a habit of failing to finish events, which is likely to continue. You will not know whether any other driver can do better until you give them that opportunity. What you do know is that they cannot do any worse than fail to finish events.

Sure they can. They can be slow and fail to finish

[Rallyper]

What are the technical differences between the Jari-Matti and Petter cars compared to Mads car?

Up to Greece I know there was differences in suspension, gear ratios and some parts in engines that differed.

In Finland and onwards I think Mads got as much as possible the same as JML and Petter.

[Xsara Fan]

In Finland and onwards I think Mads got as much as possible the same as JML and Petter.

It`s impossible. Privateer & factory cars always different. Privateer car always one (or more) step down.

[Xsara Fan]

Sure they can. They can be slow and fail to finish

Like Petter this year? :)

[Rallyper]

It`s impossible. Privateer & factory cars always different. Privateer car always one (or more) step down.

For sure. That´s true. But the difference in last rallies was much less for Mads and I would pressume Evgeni as well...?

[Kielder]

Sébastien Loeb ‏@Loeb_Seb1 (https://es.twitter.com/Loeb_Seb1) Europa duerme, tenemos un rumor? :) )

:confused:

He wrote it a few minutes ago on Twitter. Translated: "Europe is sleeping, do we have a rumour?". I'm not sleeping, tell us boss, what's up? :bounce:
Maybe he is confirming that he'll run in Argentina.

[Kielder]

Latvala had an accident against a car which entered the test stage. It was a front impact. He and his co-driver are OK, but two people are injured.

[Rallyper]

Sources?

[mousti]

Latvala had an accident against a car which entered the test stage. It was a front impact. He and his co-driver are OK, but two people are injured.
He's off to a good start then, is he Jinxed or what?

[MartijnS]

Sébastien Loeb ‏@Loeb_Seb1 (https://es.twitter.com/Loeb_Seb1) Europa duerme, tenemos un rumor? :) )

:confused:

He wrote it a few minutes ago on Twitter. Translated: "Europe is sleeping, do we have a rumour?". I'm not sleeping, tell us boss, what's up? :bounce:
Maybe he is confirming that he'll run in Argentina.

Fake account.

[Kielder]

He's off to a good start then, is he Jinxed or what?

He crashed this year testing in Portugal too. You can say it's normal to have an accident while you're testing, what is unusual is crashing twice against private cars. First one happened during Sweden's recce in Colin's Crest. I don't know if it's more worrying crashing against an old woman in an open road or against two Mexicans in a closed road the first time you drive the Polo. It's even more than double whammy.


Fake account.

It's obvious reading the profile. It was very late... :o

[nafpaktos]

I can`t really understand why I`m bothering with this....But, mediocre driver??? Mads Østberg??? If I should rate your post, it would be s strong candidate for a "Joke of the Year"-award!
I will however not bother to discuss your arguments, it will just be useless...
First of all thanks for the award :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: .During the years in wrc i have seen a lot of drivers at his age being MUCH MUCH FASTER.For drivers of his age at the past we were discussing about how many championsip they will take and not if they are able to win a rally,like we do now for mads.I dont thinκ it is necessary to mention them because since you are memeber of this forum i'm sure you know all of them.I would appreciate if you could give me one more award for this post.

[tommeke_B]

First of all thanks for the award :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: .During the years in wrc i have seen a lot of drivers at his age being MUCH MUCH FASTER.For drivers of his age at the past we were discussing about how many championsip they will take and not if they are able to win a rally,like we do now for mads.I dont thinκ it is necessary to mention them because since you are memeber of this forum i'm sure you know all of them.I would appreciate if you could give me one more award for this post.It's not about who has been faster. It's about who is faster now. Name?

[Rallyper]

No, please, some examples before we go on this discussion...

[nafpaktos]

It's not about who has been faster. It's about who is faster now. Name?
This moment except from the top drivers he is the best from the rest but this doesn't make him a potential top class-future champion driver.Jari for example was faster than mads when he was in smaller age than mads and before take an official seat.

[wrc1600]

This moment except from the top drivers he is the best from the rest but this doesn't make him a potential top class-future champion driver.Jari for example was faster than mads when he was in smaller age than mads and before take an official seat.

How did you figure out that?

[tommeke_B]

This moment except from the top drivers he is the best from the rest but this doesn't make him a potential top class-future champion driver.Jari for example was faster than mads when he was in smaller age than mads and before take an official seat.
Some drivers improve... Mads Ostberg is becoming faster all the time (his improvement on asphalt was huge this year), but he is the most consistent of all young drivers in the WRC right now (Novikov, Tanak and Neuville are no examples of consistent drivers, at least not yet). Richard Burns has been world champion with winning almost no events (being not the fastest driver that time). Mikko Hirvonen has been almost champion twice (2009 and 2011) without being the fastest. And that's why I think Mads Ostberg is a potential future champion. :)

[Mirek]

This moment except from the top drivers he is the best from the rest but this doesn't make him a potential top class-future champion driver.Jari for example was faster than mads when he was in smaller age than mads and before take an official seat.

Is Jari champion? No. Did Jari win a single WRC rally before he got to manufacturer seat? No. If You don't mid I would notify You that Mads did win. Also he had higher point/start ratio than both Ford works drivers. For God sake what more do You want?

[BleAivano]

Not sure this is the right thread for this but anyway.

PWRC driver Ramona Karlsson together with Swedish Car Sports Association (SBF) have launched a new project that
they call "Young Female Drivers”. The Purpose of the project is to give young female drivers with a platform, inspiration and
advice to aid them in their aim to succeed with their ambitions in motorsport.

PRESS: Ramona startar ungdomsprojekt för kvinnliga förare (http://www.ramonarallying.com/2012/11/29/ramona-startar-ungdomsprojekt-for-kvinnliga-forare-ansok-nu/)

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

WHO is this Jari?!

[Wasted Talent]

And turnover doesn't say anything about how much money they spent... :D

Read the article - turnover £239m, profit £20m, therefore spend = £219m

Simples

WT

[rallyfiend]

I would believe Citroen's budget to be about 25-30 million euros. Budgets are much cheaper than what they were in the past - such as the 50 million quoted to Subaru WRT. That was in the days of more expensive cars (much more technology, which is an endless money pit), and more events on the calendar.

Red Bull Racing F1's budget is around 150 million euros (125 pounds). This is open knowledge as they have to declare their details in the UK.

So to think that Citroen WRT is spending 100 million is garbage.

[tommeke_B]

Wasn't Loeb his salary around 20 million euros last year? I think it was discussed on this forum too... ;)

[dimviii]

Wasn't Loeb his salary around 20 million euros last year? I think it was discussed on this forum too... ;)

10-12 from Citroen i think Tom.

[AndyRAC]

I would believe Citroen's budget to be about 25-30 million euros. Budgets are much cheaper than what they were in the past - such as the 50 million quoted to Subaru WRT. That was in the days of more expensive cars (much more technology, which is an endless money pit), and more events on the calendar.

Red Bull Racing F1's budget is around 150 million euros (125 pounds). This is open knowledge as they have to declare their details in the UK.

So to think that Citroen WRT is spending 100 million is garbage.

Budgets are cheaper - teams have realised they can save money by not paying drivers, but only employing those who bring money.

[dimviii]

Budgets are cheaper - teams have realised they can save money by not paying drivers, but only employing those who bring money.
You talk about Malcolm only i guess.

[RAS007]

You talk about Malcolm only i guess.

I think "everyone except Citroen" would be more accurate.

[dimviii]

I think "everyone except Citroen" would be more accurate.
why vw drivers pay to drive? so ''everyone'' who wants a championship has to pay,or just walk around and earn millions while moaning about no budget

[Mirek]

Even in IRC works drivers have been mostly paid by the teams.

[Viking]

I think "everyone except Citroen" would be more accurate.

Was it not an rumour here that Østbergs tried to "buy" the second Citroen seat??

[vkangas]

I don't like the whole "brings money" or "gets paid" separation of drivers. The definition itself is irrelevant and also quite impossible to do without knowing all the details of contracts etc. What is Fernando Alonso for example? Most would say he gets paid as he is but his sponsor bring more money to Ferrari than he gets paid. Does that make him so bad that he has to pay for a seat? :) .

All the top drivers are doing rally for living and are getting money out from it for living. There is of course some exceptions to this rule as always everywhere but it does not change the big picture.

Sponsors (or their PR representatives) would love to have a great, good-looking raising future star in their team. So they will search them. Very hard. When driver is really good he will attract sponsors. Sponsors then start to bring in money to help their drivers. If the driver/manager has been successful in commercializing his personal product there will be a good amount of personal sponsors. In the case of good personal sponsorship (to driver) he will get salary (from sponsors) for driving and in the same time his sponsors bring the money to the team....and the driver gets a pay driver stamp on his head.

Other driver in a different situation may have contracts made so that he attracts sponsors for the team but has much less personal sponsors and so gets immediately defined to "gets paid" category. Usually both the drivers manager and team are trying together to put the best combination package to draw as much money from the market as possible. Will Robert Kubica be paid driver or a pay driver next year if he drives DS3 with huge McDonalds stickers? ;) .

[Bartek]

Kovalainen thinking about rally, also Henning said rally or nothing.

Interesting about Kovalainen, he said that in past he had chance to drive rally car but he chose F1.

[emk]

Interesting about Kovalainen, he said that in past he had chance to drive rally car but he chose F1.

Well he said more like that in the beginning of his career he had all the possibilities to drive in the woods and go for rallying, but he choose circuit racing instead. But he has driven some stages in Arctic Rally (2003/2004 or something?) with Focus WRC and if I remember right the stage times were quite good?

[had_zachau]

Lappi is a new factory driver in Skoda Motorsport. He will compete in some rounds of WRC2. Kopecky in ERC.

[PLuto]

Juho Hanninen finished at Skoda, Kopecky and Lappi will be lineup in 2013 - Autosport (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=14647)

[had_zachau]

So has Juho the budget for WRC?

[mousti]

That's brutal for Juho. An ERC program for two crazy Finns Juho and Jarkko would be a dream..

Verstuurd van mijn SK17i met Tapatalk

[HarriK]

Juho Hanninen finished at Skoda, Kopecky and Lappi will be lineup in 2013 - Autosport (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=14647)

and from Skoda Motorsport:
?KODA - ?KODA Motorsport in 2013: Esapekka Lappi, WRC-2 and preparations for the future (http://new.skoda-auto.com/en/news/Pages/2012-11-30-motorsport-2013.aspx)

[Mintexmemory]

and from Skoda Motorsport:
?KODA - ?KODA Motorsport in 2013: Esapekka Lappi, WRC-2 and preparations for the future (http://new.skoda-auto.com/en/news/Pages/2012-11-30-motorsport-2013.aspx)

I wonder how much this is a Skoda decision and how much influence VW have had in getting Lappi into their 'academy'.
It seems to me that someone in VW has decided very early the Juho has no future in VAG machines. Very strange.

[Bartek]

Juho deserve to be in WRC, he is very fast guy on tarmac and on gravel. But nowadays if you don't have few millions on your bank account you are nobody... I have crossed fingers for him because i like what he did to this day with his carrer

[Walach]

I will miss Juho in Škoda. Through the past seasons he became a little bit "our" boy here in Czech Republic, very popular driver between the fans. Wish him the best luck!

[AndyRAC]

I actually think he's been treated pretty shabbily. He's won the IRC, ERC, SWRC - What more could he have done? He deserves some kind of drive with the VW team. I do wonder about this sport sometimes.

[Bartek]

I actually think he's been treated pretty shabbily. He's won the IRC, ERC, SWRC - What more could he have done? He deserves some kind of drive with the VW team. I do wonder about this sport sometimes.

Meja - A'll Bout The Money - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUYdi43qXHc)

For me title of this song perfect fits to motorsport today :)

[Hartusvuori]

Too much, too soon, I'd say. I should be happy about Lappi getting a chance, but as it is at the same time connected with news of Hänninen loosing a seat, I can't, really can't be happy. I won't hold this against Lappi, but still - Hänninen deserves better, not just waiting for a prize money from lottery.

[Mirek]

I wonder how much this is a Skoda decision and how much influence VW have had in getting Lappi into their 'academy'.
It seems to me that someone in VW has decided very early the Juho has no future in VAG machines. Very strange.

I don't think that it was Škoda decision. AFAIK Juho was offered to continue. Either he didn't want or was waiting too long.

[stefanvv]

Hanninen should be in WRC. Nothing more to achieve in ERC I think. Hope he can find a drive

[rp]

I don't think that it was Škoda decision. AFAIK Juho was offered to continue. Either he didn't want or was waiting too long.

I am rather sure that Juho will drive World Rally Car in 2013. Tomi Tuominen will be his new codriver and Lasse Lampi was negotiating with Malcolm Wilson during the Rally de Espana. Hopefully they can find the budget, but the car could be also MINI...

[Mirek]

I strongly hope for that ;)

[vkangas]

I am rather sure that Juho will drive World Rally Car in 2013. Tomi Tuominen will be his new codriver and Lasse Lampi was negotiating with Malcolm Wilson during the Rally de Espana. Hopefully they can find the budget, but the car could be also MINI...
I also believe that Juho has a WRC programme secured. He indicated quite clearly earlier that Skoda contract has been offered and is a backup. Either WRC or farming then :)

[Mirek]

Maybe You didn't notice the full content of the press release in which they say Lappi will do WRC2. Originally he was planned for ERC so to me it looks like WRC2 was originally planned by Škoda for Juho and after he left they moved Lappi to his place. Just my guessing though...

[Wasted Talent]

I am rather sure that Juho will drive World Rally Car in 2013. Tomi Tuominen will be his new codriver and Lasse Lampi was negotiating with Malcolm Wilson during the Rally de Espana. Hopefully they can find the budget, but the car could be also MINI...

Hanninen in a WRC Fiesta would be interesting

WT

[dimviii]

Maybe You didn't notice the full content of the press release in which they say Lappi will do WRC2. Originally he was planned for ERC so to me it looks like WRC2 was originally planned by Škoda for Juho and after he left they moved Lappi to his place. Just my guessing though...

from Colins twitter

Don't think he's quit Michael, think he's been pushed out!
​https://twitter.com/voiceofrally

[dimviii]

Maybe You didn't notice the full content of the press release in which they say Lappi will do WRC2. Originally he was planned for ERC so to me it looks like WRC2 was originally planned by Škoda for Juho and after he left they moved Lappi to his place. Just my guessing though...


Don't think he's quit Michael, think he's been pushed out!

from Colins twitter

[Mirek]

from Colins twitter

Don't think he's quit Michael, think he's been pushed out!
​https://twitter.com/voiceofrally

I'm pretty sure he was offered to continue.

[AMSS]

Don`t know how Ford Europes withdrawal affected things, but during NORF it was a quit sure thing "in the paddock" that Juho was to drive in the M-sport team in 2013, but as I said I haven`t heard or asked around any since.. And for sure the Ford withdrawal had some effect?!

[vkangas]

Great news!

Hänninen driving M-Sport's WRC Fiesta next season confirmed! Not too much details though.
Juho Hänninen huippukalustolla rallin MM-sarjaan - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2012/11/1666760/juho-hanninen-huippukalustolla-rallin-mm-sarjaan)

EDIT: as predicted, co-driver will be Tomi Tuominen.

[Mirek]

Great! Hopefully he can do as many events and tests as possible :)

[vkangas]

In the same News Hänninen's first test with Fiesta is confirmed to be in the middle of december in France for Monte. So looks like a proper factory-like deal but needs an official confirmation.

[Miika]

Holy #¤% that is awesome, finally.

[stefanvv]

Hehehehe. Another flying finn. What could be better. Great news for Hanninen.

So Ford are still keen to If you wanna win, you need a Finn

[Kalm]

Thats great news indeed !

[TyPat107]

Glad to hear! So is he #2 to ostberg then?

[logic]

So it seems petter is out then.

[pettersolberg29]

Got to be honest, I am happy to see Hanninen given a chance even if at Petter's expense. He'd be my first choice if Petter wasn't an option, so hope he does as well as we all know he can! I'd fancy him to beat Ostberg over a season quite easily too.

[dimviii]

Hana Juho!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice choice from my friend

[vkangas]

There's still some justice in this world. With proper deal and testing Juho can really do a great result right away as he is one of the most complete drivers around. Speed-reliability-tarmac-gravel-snow! And maybe the most important of all, a winner mindset and enough age and life experience so that he can handle pressure. :)

[MartijnS]

Really cool! :D

[MartinMK]

He is not the #2 driver in Qatar M-Sport World Rally Team, he just drives an M-Sport Fiesta next year.

[Josti]

Thoroughly deserved for Juho! Interesting drivers line-up so far next year. Very competitive combinations too I think.

[Mintexmemory]

This will be really interesting -pleased for JH. Now where does it say in any release made so far that Mads is No1? I suspect they will be equals until mid-season. Then 'back the leader' will happen. Malc likes to keep people on their toes.

[Roy]

Great for Juho. Little bit adventurous choice, but it is not clear he drove all rallies in (points score nominated) car.
Good choice for first 2 rallies: Monaco and Sweden. For tarmac and some gravel rallies i don't know. Or I am wrong?

What can we further expected? Some drives in ERC with a M-Sport car?

[vkangas]

Juho's and Tomi's team is most likely not Qatar M-Sport as Tomi himself speculated today that Novikov could take the second seat to Ostberg.

Tomi's recent blog (finnish):
http://blogit.mtv3.fi/rallitietaja/2012/11/30/492/

[Mintexmemory]

Juho's and Tomi's team is most likely not Qatar M-Sport as Tomi himself speculated today that Novikov could take the second seat to Ostberg.
Ok thanks for that - interesting to see what the M-Sport site will say

[vkangas]

My only fear starts with a D and ends with mack....but let's hope not :) .

[Adler]

Kubica 2013 WRC in DS3?

Rallye: News - Rallye-News - Rallye - motorline.cc (http://www.motorline.cc/rallye/news/2012/Rallye-WM/Rallye-News-Eins%C3%A4tze-im-DS3-WRC-m%C3%B6glich-174293.html)

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.at/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorline.cc%2Frallye%2Fnews%2F 2012%2FRallye-WM%2FRallye-News-Eins%25C3%25A4tze-im-DS3-WRC-m%25C3%25B6glich-174293.html&act=url)

[Hartusvuori]

Me happy now!!!

[HaCo]

Awesome news about Juho, a real driver with charisma!!!

[urabus-denoS2000]

Excellent news, I'm very happy for Juho. I hope he will get a competitive car and show what he knows ;)

[AMSS]

My only fear starts with a D and ends with mack....but let's hope not :) .

What`s to fear? Novikov showed that once the car is close in performance to the top the difference between the tires isn`t as big as it`s generally thought!
Only Sweden(if they haven`t improved since last year) is a question mark for DMack. And the difference seems to be bigger on tarmac. But the gravel speed seems good?

[dimviii]

What`s to fear? Novikov showed that once the car is close in performance to the top the difference between the tires isn`t as big as it`s generally thought!
Only Sweden(if they haven`t improved since last year) is a question mark for DMack. And the difference seems to be bigger on tarmac. But the gravel speed seems good?

difference is also big at gravel(at asphalt is huge specially when hot),if we compare same compounds.Dmack at some muddy rallies had nomimated a softer compound if i remember right.

[AMSS]

It wasn`t wet in the qualifying or was it? I actually can`t remember so don`t be offended.
Also I have heard from several different places that when driving back to back testing the difference especially with the gravel tires is miniscule. And this includes factory drivers from Ford,Mini and Skoda!
Even in Finland one guy with and not as good Evo9 as the competition set some very impressive times this summer on DMacks beating Juha Salo, and the over God E-P LAppi.. :) on some stages.
As I see it the biggest difference compared to Michelin has been the car and the drivers..
Note that also I believe that Michelin is the best!

[tommeke_B]

The difference is miniscule... For the first 15km's. Same story for Hankook tyres (Gardemeister and Mikkelsen drove with them in the IRC) a few years ago.
Michelin and Pirelli have always been the best in rallying for the last 30(?) years. How do you expect that a new-comer-tyre costing half as much will perform almost as well?

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Hanaa Juho HANAA!! Just awesome! Hyvä Juho hyvä SUOMI FINLAND!!

[dimviii]

It wasn`t wet in the qualifying or was it? I actually can`t remember so don`t be offended.
Also I have heard from several different places that when driving back to back testing the difference especially with the gravel tires is miniscule. And this includes factory drivers from Ford,Mini and Skoda!
Even in Finland one guy with and not as good Evo9 as the competition set some very impressive times this summer on DMacks beating Juha Salo, and the over God E-P LAppi.. :) on some stages.
As I see it the biggest difference compared to Michelin has been the car and the drivers..
Note that also I believe that Michelin is the best!
I am almost sure that when dmacks were close was when they had nomimated a softer compound at rainy-muddy rallies.
So not proper compare.

ps michelin is top class as pirelli.Top technology that evolves nonstop.

[RS]

Great news about Juho! At last WRC is starting to look interesting again.

I really hope though that he gets a "proper" car and not a second hand parts bin special... Malcolm could leave the second Qatar team seat open rally-by-rally to choose the best option could he not?

I think Juho could be better over a season than Novikov. He will be one to watch on Monte for sure, provided he gets enough practice in the car.

[Francis44]

Just read on another forum that Hanninen will test next week in Portugal.

[Rallyper]

So now we have in M-sport

Ostberg
Juho
Novikov
Tanak

Two guys in first team and three in M-sport #2 team. So one in first team is missing...

Who would it be?

[tommeke_B]

Al-Attiyah is not in your list. Anything sure about Tanak btw? ;)

[AMSS]

The difference is miniscule... For the first 15km's. Same story for Hankook tyres (Gardemeister and Mikkelsen drove with them in the IRC) a few years ago.
Michelin and Pirelli have always been the best in rallying for the last 30(?) years. How do you expect that a new-comer-tyre costing half as much will perform almost as well?

Just because what you wrote is the reason they shouldn`t be too far away, the majority of all the DMack guys are Pirelli departures after they left the WRC, so they definately should have the knowhow!
And regarding compounds, the rules allows 2 compounds that should be marked with an H for hard and an S for soft, both markings are with "stickers" so that really doesn`t tell anything what compound the go with, except ones harder and ones softer. But who`s got the softest I doubt anyone here knows..
Anyhow give them some time and I`m sure they`ll be even closer to the top in the future.
Anyhow we`re getting off topic here so let`s be happy for Juhos sake and hope for a competitive year next year regardless of tires ;)

[stefanvv]

As many times I've read waht tyres DMack will supply for particular event, it was always "Soft". But no matter tyres indeed, Hanninen gets his chance he deserves.

[kirungi okwogera]

So now we have in M-sport

Ostberg
Juho
Novikov
Tanak

Two guys in first team and three in M-sport #2 team. So one in first team is missing...

Who would it be?
Probably still negotiating/holding out hope for Petter? I wonder if he falls through who would be n. 2? Novikov, Juho, or someone else?

[stefanvv]

Probably still negotiating/holding out hope for Petter? I wonder if he falls through who would be n. 2? Novikov, Juho, or someone else?

Here is some reading on the subject - Malcom Wilson won't rush selecting second driver for 2013 - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104656)

[dimviii]

Just because what you wrote is the reason they shouldn`t be too far away, the majority of all the DMack guys are Pirelli departures after they left the WRC, so they definately should have the knowhow!
And regarding compounds, the rules allows 2 compounds that should be marked with an H for hard and an S for soft, both markings are with "stickers" so that really doesn`t tell anything what compound the go with, except ones harder and ones softer. But who`s got the softest I doubt anyone here knows..

from the barcode you can see everything.

[A.F.F.]

Hehehehe. Another flying finn. What could be better. Great news for Hanninen.

So Ford are still keen to If you wanna win, you need a Finn

Thank you but Juho is the hero here :p

[rage82]

Really good news today. First Lappi in Skoda doing WRC - 2 and now Juho in M-Sport, just a perfect friday. I know Juho will show everybody of what he's made of so there's a lot to watch next year!

[Rallyper]

I´m really happy for JH and it will be exciting to see him perform in WRC in the first two rounds. But still I have to change a bit of my reply above. It seems Juho isn´t a true member of the second team, only "paying" driver in a couple of rounds. I really do hope he´ll get the funding for whole season or at least the important rounds, such as Greece, NORF, GB and som tarmac events like Germany and Spain.

But my thoughts gives the opening for what MW really wants: a winning guy amongst Mads in 2nd car. Let´s wait and see who that guy will be.... The one with money and speed will be there.

[dimviii]

Block back at wrc
https://twitter.com/AlexGelsomino/status/274635057652707328

[noel157]

I would believe Citroen's budget to be about 25-30 million euros. Budgets are much cheaper than what they were in the past - such as the 50 million quoted to Subaru WRT. That was in the days of more expensive cars (much more technology, which is an endless money pit), and more events on the calendar.

Red Bull Racing F1's budget is around 150 million euros (125 pounds). This is open knowledge as they have to declare their details in the UK.

So to think that Citroen WRT is spending 100 million is garbage.

In the 2010 season Citroen's budget was 38 million Euro. It was less for the the 2011 season, somewhere around 30 million. I imagine it was similar this season. Figures from a Citroen source.

[noel157]

Block back at wrc
https://twitter.com/AlexGelsomino/status/274635057652707328

Papa Wilson will be rubbing his hands......

[noel157]

Great news for Juho, he deserves it and he should upset one or two other drivers...

[Kielder]

Just read on another forum that Hanninen will test next week in Portugal.

I read it too. It is only an anonymous comment in a forum where people usually write nonsenses.

[vkangas]

Some clarification on Hänninen's deal. He has so far only two rallies, Monte Carlo and Sweden, confirmed but is of course targeting for more rallies.

[Allyc85]

Even if it is just 2 events I just pray that Juho keeps it on track and proves what he is worth, with all the titles under his belt!! Maybe it is just an audition for the Qatar seat as Malcolm mentioned the 2nd seat might be shared around.

[Tom206wrc]

So it seems petter is out then.


I really hope the deal Solberg P. Citroën Norge will be signed next week :mark:

[pino]

It will be very sad not to see Peter on a competitive car next year :(

[dimviii]

any news about Nikkara?

[big_sw2000]

This seems to surgest that Hanninen, will get the 2nd Ford seat.
planetemarcus.com/juho-hanninen-chez-m-sport-en-2013/ - Translator (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fplanetemarcus.com%2Fjuho-hanninen-chez-m-sport-en-2013%2F)

With Mads at number 1.
Malcom Wilson won't rush selecting second driver for 2013 - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104656)

So where will Petter go.

Steve

[Ezhik]

Please read again Hanninen's press release, and tell me, is there any word about Qatar M-Sport's second seat?

[skarderud]

Since some rumours last week suggested pg and juho in mini, maybe its pg and nikkara?

[big_sw2000]

Please read again Hanninen's press release, and tell me, is there any word about Qatar M-Sport's second seat?

Good point.

Steve

[uranium]

If it is true, I so happy for Juho :) Go Juho! Wish only wins :)

[liposh]

Is it possible to have for example 4 or 5 drivers in one team?

[bassist]

The plot thickens!!

[Hartusvuori]

No news on Nikara, but there must be something going in the backgroud.

[big_sw2000]

Is it possible to have for example 4 or 5 drivers in one team?
You could have you 1 and 2 drivers, and maybe share the 3rd car. Similar to Citroen when Loeb comes back for a few events next year.
But if Hanninen has got the 2nd seat, then i hope Solberg gets something half tidy
Steve

[Humber]

What is the possibility that Hyundai has Hanninen on a conditional contract ? He has to prove to Hyundai that he can drive a current spec WRC rally car on WRC events before they ink a full drive contract for driving the Hyundai WRC later in the year ?

[big_sw2000]

Please read again Hanninen's press release, and tell me, is there any word about Qatar M-Sport's second seat?

In fact the title dose.

Steve

[uranium]

I am happy to see how many fans of Hänninen are here :) He deserves it :)

[gtimad73]

All I hope for is that his fiesta has the same pace as the works cars. As I feel how ever good he is if its a private spec car it won't be on the same pace

[tommeke_B]

All I hope for is that his fiesta has the same pace as the works cars. As I feel how ever good he is if its a private spec car it won't be on the same paceWhat works cars?

[gtimad73]

I mean the top spec msport car. I know there not a works team any more

[alleskids]

Ford is no title sponsor, but there is stil a lot of Ford logo's on Mads Ostbergs Qatar t-shirt. so they are still involved?

[ToughMac]

Think they are providing technical support but thats as far as it goes.

[adr17]

All I hope for is that his fiesta has the same pace as the works cars. As I feel how ever good he is if its a private spec car it won't be on the same pace

m2 fiesta wrc is almost exactly the same , same engine same drivetrain same reigers, just a few lighter panels but all cars are on minimum weight so doesnt really make a difference , yes i work at said team , it more about size of engineers balls with how much fuel they take !!! and time the drivers get in the hot seat

this is also proved by mads , tanak s novikovs stage times this year

also fiesta m2 is alot closer to fiests works cars than citroen m2 cars to citroen works FACT ask evgeny / petter ie in finland and gb only 2 citroen works cars had dampers with the roll valve and reserviors on the body instead of old on a pipe from top of damper

but i forgot you guys are all m sport haters

[A FONDO]

also fiesta m2 is alot closer to fiests works cars than citroen m2 cars to citroen works FACT
also m2 citroens are way more reliable than m2 fiestas to reach the finish without falling apart FACT

[bluuford]

also m2 citroens are way more reliable than m2 fiestas to reach the finish without falling apart FACT

Depends on how much are you willing to invest.. you get what you pay for. You can always pay 30-50 % more and rent a Citroen

[Padowa]

also m2 citroens are way more reliable than m2 fiestas to reach the finish without falling apart FACT

Blinded by the FACT that you don't know what you are talking about ;-)

[dimviii]

only 2 citroen works cars had dampers with the roll valve and reserviors on the body instead of old on a pipe from top of damper

that was because they had just 2 sets,and that they decide to use them some days before rally.At next rallies we saw also ''private'' ds3s with new position for canisters. ;)

[A FONDO]

Blinded by the FACT that you don't know what you are talking about ;-)

I dont need to "know" anything since there are statistics

[tommeke_B]

that was because they had just 2 sets,and that they decide to use them some days before rally.At next rallies we saw also ''private'' ds3s with new position for canisters. ;)
For Finland, ok... But Wales was 1,5 month later. ;)
Anyway it's not the first time I hear someone saying the difference between Factory/M2 at Citroën is bigger than at Ford. Let's hope the differences become smaller from time to time in stead of bigger. :)

[adr17]

that was because they had just 2 sets,and that they decide to use them some days before rally.At next rallies we saw also ''private'' ds3s with new position for canisters. ;)

im not trying to say m sport is better than citroen because obviously it is not , however i think it is better than you guys give it credit for

oh and on all private cars at next rallies after finland , thats funny because this is a picture of a "private" ds3 on sardinia with the old spec ;) must have been photoshopped

3057

[tommeke_B]

I dont need to "know" anything since there are statistics
Statistics say: "Get back on my ignore-list, your posts are wasting my time." :D

[gtimad73]

m2 fiesta wrc is almost exactly the same , same engine same drivetrain same reigers, just a few lighter panels but all cars are on minimum weight so doesnt really make a difference , yes i work at said team , it more about size of engineers balls with how much fuel they take !!! and time the drivers get in the hot seat

this is also proved by mads , tanak s novikovs stage times this year

also fiesta m2 is alot closer to fiests works cars than citroen m2 cars to citroen works FACT ask evgeny / petter ie in finland and gb only 2 citroen works cars had dampers with the roll valve and reserviors on the body instead of old on a pipe from top of damper

but i forgot you guys are all m sport haters im not a msport hater or hater of any one else. I just know that if you don't have a works car(Or msport works spec). you cant run the same pace as other works cars. petter proved that with the citroen. all im saying is I hope he got the same spec as mads/? or you cant really compare like for like.

[Plan9]

Has anyone heard if Juho will do anything after Sweden in the WRC? Maybe he is doing a Sandell next year and only doing 2 events in the WRC

[Hartusvuori]

Has anyone heard if Juho will do anything after Sweden in the WRC? Maybe he is doing a Sandell next year and only doing 2 events in the WRC

He said they are trying to secure more rallies, but it's up to many things as you well know and these two starts are only what they have now secured. Solid results would help, and I believe and hope we'll see him more this year than just Monte, Sweden and (maybe) Finland. It took him, I don't know, months of hard work to get this deal together, so please be more patient than just for two days before asking for more.

[skarderud]

Sandell btw, any news about sweden wrc project? And sandell next year?

[big_sw2000]

All I hope for is that his fiesta has the same pace as the works cars. As I feel how ever good he is if its a private spec car it won't be on the same pace

The link i posted on the privious page would suggest, he has the 2nd works M-Sport seat. If you read the title to the link.

Steve