[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[janvanvurpa]

Another one in a growing row...

Here we had even a petition of crews against mandatory use of HANS (there were no lumbar vertebrae fractures before and than something like two dozens in last few years just in CZ) but as usually without any effect. If someone wants to use it why not but it shall not be mandatory.

Really. Verey interesting.. I lobbied hard here in Fortress America™ to the corporation that runs one of the series... I said there was ample evidence that people are NOT constantly breaking their necks if one just looks at the popular crash videos from Sweden and Finland...but here it seemed everybody wanted to get HANS---i suspect from the same reason most Americans do everything they do: because they saw it on TV...

Would you have any links to cases in Czecho-land? Is it lumbar or lower back usually? (I have just in last 4 years had 4-5 operations directly related to pounding 35 years ago.... upper then lower spine, new knee, new intake ports in the nose)

I would like to link to cases of fractures...

[Mirek]

I personally don't have exact statistics but sure they are available from our drivers association which is trying to make HANS only voluntarily.

It's always lumbar or lower thoratic vertebrae broken as it's in the S shape where the pressure is concentrated if the body is pushed down to the seat. But it didn't happen only here but You can count also Guy Wilks, Dennis Kuipers, Ilka Minor, Pieter Van Merksteijn, Dennis Giraudet and sure others. I think that in these cases it can hardly come to wrong seat, belts, HANS size etc. It doesn't happen only on village level.

I was at one such crash in Rally Kopná. It was a frontal crash into the tree with Clio R3 due to aquaplaning (very good car, originally works one). It wasn't such a big crash. Engine and gearbox were undamaged, just radiator and LF suspension broken. The driver was quite an older guy and not really sporty one but still I witnessed much bigger crashes where no-one got hurt...

[Gregor-y]

I always thought in addition to the appearance of safety Rally America is beholden to insurance requirements that would require HANS. I've followed a lot of those discussions since the cost is pretty high for most US competitors.

Then again, this guy said it was a good thing he was wearing one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh-T4ALk0Sc

[xavier]

AUTOhebdo.fr | WRC-Fracture lombaire pour Giraudet (http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/breve-26-1-28997/070812-wrc-fracture-lombaire-pour-giraudet%3Cspan%20class=)

Amazing that he get an injury not on a crash. Considering how many times Novikov has put the car upside down!

[sollitt]

I lobbied hard here in Fortress America™ to the corporation that runs one of the series... I said there was ample evidence that people are NOT constantly breaking their necks if one just looks at the popular crash videos from Sweden and Finland...but here it seemed everybody wanted to get HANS---i suspect from the same reason most Americans do everything they do: because they saw it on TV...

Likewise John, I have lobbied hard here against officialdom who impose the use of HANS in domestic competition despite over 40 years with no happenings in which the wearing of one would have positively affected the outcome. We've had a number of happenings though in which, had the occupants been wearing the gear, the outcome would likely have been much worse.
In our case it's not a case of competitors seeing it on TV but of regulators missunderstanding the nature and needs of our sport.

[Hartusvuori]

I think this is the jump (SS Urria, the big one) where Giraudet hurt his back: Neste Oil Rally Finland 2012 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=In_NAVV3PzA#t=241s)

There must be better videos, but this one I found quickly.

[Jerra]

Hello to everybody!
I am following this forum for a while but HANS thread forced me to register and write something about injuries caused on the big jumps landing.
I am a professional co driver and had serious back injury ( two vertebra broken, second and third and also broken ligaments on this position). Probably most of you will remember our crazy jumps from Rally Italia Sardegna 2008 on the SS Monte Lerno ( place where I am injured) and NORF 2007 on the SS Palsankyla where my driver had back and neck injuries but no serious like me in Italy ... Car was for that time top Clio R3 from Renault Sport, chassis number 009. I had lot off serious crashes during career before HANS device become mandatory and never had any injury, who knows, maybe I was lucky ...

Milos Komljenovic Italy 2008 Jump - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiK5kq8Qrw)

Neste Oil Rally -07. Milos Komljenovic - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5un7_2JlDU&feature=related)

[leighton323]

Excuse me if I'm wrong but isn't HANS device stand for head and neck support with the purpose of the device to stop the head from whipping forward in a crash. What has this got to do with fractures of vertebrae from heavy landings? I thought it was designed to stop the head from whipping back and damaging the vertebrae in the neck and spinal cord, in a frontal accident?

[BleAivano]

Excuse me if I'm wrong but isn't HANS device stand for head and neck support with the purpose of the device to stop the head from whipping forward in a crash. What has this got to do with fractures of vertebrae from heavy landings? I thought it was designed to stop the head from whipping back and damaging the vertebrae in the neck and spinal cord, in a frontal accident?

yeah that is correct. There are other similar safety equipments as well. I don't know what it is called but i know that Ramona Karlsson use it instead of HANS.

[clem126]

yeah that is correct. There are other similar safety equipments as well. I don't know what it is called but i know that Ramona Karlsson use it instead of HANS.

Technically the device used by Ramona Karlsson (also used by Partick Flodin and Evgeny Novikov this weekend in NORF) is still a HANS (Head And Neck Support). It's called a Hybrid. Hybrid | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/Simpson.Hybrid)

About the injury supposedly caused by Hans devices, i always thought it would be the collarbone ones (which i believe are increasing a lot) when the car takes a front impact, due to the lower part of the HANS pressing on the shoulder when the head moves forward. At least i believe this is how it works as i've never had to test the efficiency of a HANS yet (and lets hope i wont have to :D )

[Mirek]

Excuse me if I'm wrong but isn't HANS device stand for head and neck support with the purpose of the device to stop the head from whipping forward in a crash. What has this got to do with fractures of vertebrae from heavy landings? I thought it was designed to stop the head from whipping back and damaging the vertebrae in the neck and spinal cord, in a frontal accident?

Yes, You are right but If I understand it right the problem is that with the HANS bellow the seatbelts You make the upper body too stiff to absorb part of vertical load into its deformation. As a result more stress is transformed to the lumbar spinal area where the spine is curved in an S-shape and therefore critical in terms of buckling.

[leighton323]

Yes, You are right but If I understand it right the problem is that with the HANS bellow the seatbelts You make the upper body too stiff to absorb part of vertical load into its deformation. As a result more stress is transformed to the lumbar spinal area where the spine is curved in an S-shape and therefore critical in terms of buckling.

Thanks for that explanation, it's good to learn something everyday (:

[paddocknews]

Breaking news! RedBull Media House set to become WRC promoter
https://p.twimg.com/Azw2PKnCUAAg2kQ.jpg

[Maui J.]

Good news to finally have a new promotor.
Bad luck if you are sponsored by another Energy Drink.

[6789]

I think RedBull will do a great job!

[rallyfiend]

Good news to finally have a new promotor.
Bad luck if you are sponsored by another Energy Drink.

Red bull have a very good record of not caring if other energy drinks are involved. Look at X-Fighters. Half the riders there are sponsored by other energy drinks and sill invited to compete.

[makinen_fan]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/373888_10151137810950733_2038526523_n.jpg by PlanetMarcus

I hopw all this is true and hopefully the issues with wrc will start being sorted out. How valid are the sources, anyone know?

[raybak]

How will this Red Bull deal affect drivers with Monster or other energy drink sponsors?

[Jerra]

Yes, You are right but If I understand it right the problem is that with the HANS bellow the seatbelts You make the upper body too stiff to absorb part of vertical load into its deformation. As a result more stress is transformed to the lumbar spinal area where the spine is curved in an S-shape and therefore critical in terms of buckling.

I am not medical expert but lot of drivers has similar opinion. Dakar crews has petition against mandatory use of HANS few years ago ...

[Franky]

How will this Red Bull deal affect drivers with Monster or other energy drink sponsors?

By all logic it won't affect them in any way because Red Bull is the promoter. It isn't an exclusive sponsorship deal.

[stefanvv]

Breaking news! RedBull Media House set to become WRC promoter
https://p.twimg.com/Azw2PKnCUAAg2kQ.jpg

Awesome, I hope they do it well.

[vkangas]

Lappi started his career in karting so he is used to driving on tarmac more than other Finns normally.
Yes, one could even say that he is a beginner in rally but quite experienced on tarmac :) . He's career approach seems to go really well. Let's hope things go in line with his driving skills in the future and there is no injuries or other random things on his way.

[Juha_Koo]

Yes, You are right but If I understand it right the problem is that with the HANS bellow the seatbelts You make the upper body too stiff to absorb part of vertical load into its deformation.

Why people don't use belts, which have small duplicate belts for HANS on top of the main belts which have contact with the (co)driver? Those belts were displayed even in some WRC TV HANS introduction video (2007 if I remember right) where Mikko and Jarmo showed how to wear/use HANS...

[Mirek]

There are same injuries with both types of belts.

[Juha_Koo]

There are same injuries with both types of belts.

Oh, okay. This was new info for me, thanks Mirek!

So then, only possibilty to achieve neck support without problems of HANS would be to connect helmet to the seat itself by straps...

[omer yetis]

Breaking news! RedBull Media House set to become WRC promoter
https://p.twimg.com/Azw2PKnCUAAg2kQ.jpg

is Red bull going to continue with Citroen next year?

[clem126]

Red Bull set to be announced as new promoter of the World Rally Championship - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101750)

[kirungi okwogera]

Am I right in thinking that as promoter, Red Bull will be responsible for the TV production as NOS was?

Red Bull's air racing coverage was some of the most beautiful footage I ever prepared for television. They sent it on HDCAM-SR tape, which is more expensive by a large margin than any other tape stock, normally only movies (and only some movies) get sent to TV/satellite networks on HD-SR. But when your cameras and coverage are so incredible I guess you want the best colour depth, data rate etc. when you deliver your finished programming as well (It's too bad our backwater country broadcast it with very limited data rate over satellite in the end, only I got to see it that way on a perfect calibrated 1080p pro monitor).

I'm thrilled about their involvement. If they do half of what they do for the air race shows WRC will have some very polished world-class programming.

[Juha_Koo]

Something like this (http://img02.zerogrey.com/upload/sparco/images/00162A_main_medium_00162.jpg) has been used in regional events for years. It doesn't look as fancy but it helps to support the neck.

AFAIK it's a safety device designed for karting use. In karts seat's rear side is very short and therefore rear impact is really dangerous because the upper body (including the neck) could whipsplash rearwards.

In rallying that device would help if used the wrong way around (the bulky side in front) to stop head from whipsplashing forward (because seats are high enough to provide head support backwards). In the past, I've seen it being used like that in Finland, but it ended when ASN doctor warned competitors that it could lead to severe cervical spine and throat injuries as it has not been desinged to be used that way around...

[N.O.T]

Lets hope Red bull presents rallying as the sport it is and not like those extreme games of redneck/insest culture...

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Lets hope Red bull presents rallying as the sport it is and not like those extreme games of redneck/insest culture...

It's incest. Seriously, get a clue bro.

[rallye-vid]

Where is Mirek?

Some Czech news are saying IRC and ERC will be joint together?!

[N.O.T]

It's incest. Seriously, get a clue bro.

Thank you for the useful contribution... and lets hope red bull know what rallying is about.

[janvanvurpa]

AFAIK it's a safety device designed for karting use. In karts seat's rear side is very short and therefore rear impact is really dangerous because the upper body (including the neck) could whipsplash rearwards.

In rallying that device would help if used the wrong way around (the bulky side in front) to stop head from whipsplashing forward (because seats are high enough to provide head support backwards). In the past, I've seen it being used like that in Finland, but it ended when ASN doctor warned competitors that it could lead to severe cervical spine and throat injuries as it has not been desinged to be used that way around...

My god. I think I am going to faint. Actual discusion about the actual issue..
All the so called discussion on HANS was, from the corporate organizer side like this: "What would our defense in a lawsuit be if in a courtroom we were found to have not been requiring the use of best practices?"

And it was stated exactly as such again and again.. Now I'm not too bright so when somebody repeats a question enough I stupidly think they're asking a question so I foolishly answered "law works on 'precedent', on what has been found previously to be legal, binding etc. You would have contacted the Federartions in other countries and asked them how many insurance payouts they have done for rally drivers and co-drivers who have broken their necks and died of that---and not massive internal injuries, but broken necks, and present the numbers of participants, number of years, and number of fatal neck breaks and let evidence speak"

I was not very popular..

The situation is even worse when one considers that the various "Federations" usually refer to "research" by SFI which i think is SFI Foundation, an organistion which makes standards and issues certifications whose members consist of: safety equipment manufacturers. Obviously a huge potential appearance of conflict of interest...

Which everybody pretends doesn't exist..

The Corporate masters asserted, and I quote "All major race series require HANS.." At the time, it turned out only FFA required HANS in A8 and N4 class, all others recommended...
I read piles of regs for federations all round the world, cut and pasted the sections in rulebooks, and highlighted "recommended. not required".

They did not like me.

My worries stem from what I saw in my sport, moto-cross, when between 1971 and 1974 we got much much better boots and stopped banging our ankles to hell.
And instead we all ripped the cartilage and ligaments to pieces in our knees.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Red Bull set to be announced as new promoter of the World Rally Championship - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101750)
Good news!

Although to be brutally honest, the WRC is in a state where anything anyone does to it could be considered a step in the right direction.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Thank you for the useful contribution...

Not sure I'll ever be able to match such insightful contribution as yours.


like those extreme games of redneck/insest culture...

Anyway,


and lets hope red bull know what rallying is about.

+ 1

[GigiGalliNo1]

Amazing that he get an injury not on a crash. Considering how many times Novikov has put the car upside down!

Not always a big crash can result in an injury like this. If time and time after few mistakes or crashes or slight offs can distort parts of the body and then after a while one small thing can trigger a big break in the body if you know what I mean...

[GigiGalliNo1]

From George Donaldson:
"Just heard from DENIS Giraudet via several texts. His op a success. He Hopes to be out of hospital Monday. Like all these things we need to wait and see how the bone graft takes to be sure of the final result. Wishing him a speedy and successful recovery!"

[A FONDO]

Sounds serious. Respect for that he stayed to the end of the rally.

[Xsara Fan]

Evgeny Novikov`s co-driver Denis Giraudet will be replaced at ADAC Rally Deutschland by Nicolas Klinger. Denis will work as gravel crew co-driver.

[jbmarcus21]

And Marcus ??
World Rally Championship - News - Gronholm: WRC comeback still appeals (http://www.wrc.com/news/gronholm-wrc-comeback-still-appeals/?fid=17211)

[N.O.T]

Maybe in some events as guest...

[jbmarcus21]

will be nice ...

share 3rd Polo Wrc with him and Mikkelsen ...

[Juha_Koo]

R.I.P. Philippe Bugalski... :( According to the news he died in a car accident, no more news so far. Another legend who had to go too soon... :(

Unbeliavable. Once again life shows how fragile and unpredictable it is. Many dozens of rallies behind him and then comes a car accident...

[mousti]

Wow again shocking news :s . It's not in a rally now but it's still very tragic, and indeed a legend, he didn't had the superb world class results but was for a long time a great test driver for Citroën in their glory days what's still is ongoing and he founded a great team (Automeca).

[Josti]

Terrible terrible news. He was an essential part in Citroëns development to a World Championship winning team.

[MJW]

It was not a car crash.

[Josti]

It was not a car crash.

Either way...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Reposer en paix monsieur Bugalski.

He accidentally fell out of a tree...

[Red bull]

FLASHBACK LOEB/ELENA IN A TOYOTA COROLLA WRC WRC Rally Corsica 2000 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deh5q_DACq0)

[Hartusvuori]

Finnish champ Juha Salo won't start in WRC Wales as previously announced. However, he will start with Proton in APRC Japan and China

[Mirek]

Swap with Alister McRae?

[rp]

Finnish champ Juha Salo won't start in WRC Wales as previously announced. However, he will start with Proton in APRC Japan and China

PG and Tom Cave will drive Protons in GB...

[rp]

Swap with Alister McRae?

Salo and McRae in APRC...

[Mirek]

Aha, thanks

[Barreis]

Sebastien Ogier to race in VW Sciroccos at Nurburgring - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101792)

[MikeD]

Does anybody know what will happen with MINI next year. Will there be any BMW support or will they just let Motorsport Italia, Prodrive, Grifone and TokSport run the cars that are build as privateers?

[tolis]

Matthew Wilson and Scott Martin will make a return to the WRC on their home event at Wales Rally GB.
Wilson to make a welcome return on home event (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/1184-wilson-to-make-a-welcome-return-on-home-event)

[RAS007]

Wilson to make a welcome return on home event (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/1184-wilson-to-make-a-welcome-return-on-home-event)

"Wilson to make a return on home event", would probably be more accurate.

[noel157]

Does anybody know what will happen with MINI next year. Will there be any BMW support or will they just let Motorsport Italia, Prodrive, Grifone and TokSport run the cars that are build as privateers?

Would imagine nobody knows anything, well, perhaps the BMW Motorsport board.
Prodrive's Wilcox mentioned something the other day about "hoping" to do a full season next year with Sordo and another driver.
No sure Sordo is hoping for the same considering past history but..............

[tfp]

Matthew Wilson and Scott Martin will make a return to the WRC on their home event at Wales Rally GB.
Wilson to make a welcome return on home event (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/1184-wilson-to-make-a-welcome-return-on-home-event)


Good to have him back!
Hopefuly his injury will mean his left foot will stay off the brake pedal a bit longer ;)

The sponsorship thing is a bit worrying though, it will be ok for GB, but will this livery make any sense to folk foriegn to GB? Good to have them back finally nonetheless!

[Barreis]

FIA in playground...
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/Documents/wrc-supply-of-cars-partner.pdf

[Maxi]

There was an article on irally, about the FIA not allowing anymore FIA licensed drivers to participate in the global rally-cross championship, but I can no longer find the article though.

[Bartolbia84]

Hayden Paddon at the start of Rally Italia Sardegna, to take away a Mitsubishi Lancer EVO X.


Bresolin will be at the start of the Wales GB and Catalunya, unfortunately will miss the Rally of Italia.

[Plan9]

Good to have him back!
Hopefuly his injury will mean his left foot will stay off the brake pedal a bit longer ;)

The sponsorship thing is a bit worrying though, it will be ok for GB, but will this livery make any sense to folk foriegn to GB? Good to have them back finally nonetheless!

Could you blame GO Fast for Bailing? I doubt they saw humor in the irony of someone who's nickname is slowson driving a "go fast" car.

[Mintexmemory]

Good to have him back!
Hopefuly his injury will mean his left foot will stay off the brake pedal a bit longer ;)

The sponsorship thing is a bit worrying though, it will be ok for GB, but will this livery make any sense to folk foriegn to GB? Good to have them back finally nonetheless!

Don't think the sponsorship thing is a problem at all, mate. This is very much a one-off and I don't think there's a budget for Matt to do anything else. As for the article saying MW is the only Brit in WRC, I have a feeling there will be one other in the field at WRGB ;)

[Barreis]

So do the mini Portugal drivers have FIA nominations and which driver is nominated for whole season?

[tolis]

Hayden Paddon at the start of Rally Italia Sardegna, to take away a Mitsubishi Lancer EVO X.


Bresolin will be at the start of the Wales GB and Catalunya, unfortunately will miss the Rally of Italia.

I guess Paddon's Evo X will be an HRT one? Do you know which car Bresolin will use? RRC or WRC spec?

[Koppomsbo]

voiceofrally


It's official @ChrisAtko replacing Araujo in official Mini for rest of season. Sorry for Armindo, but mega excited for Chris - great news!

[sollitt]

Could you blame GO Fast for Bailing? I doubt they saw humor in the irony of someone who's nickname is slowson driving a "go fast" car.
Only a handful of very childish cowardly forum posters used the term you refer to. No business with the wherewithall to support a rally programme would have given a moments consideration to the nonsense. You do yourself no favours raising the matter.

[Hartusvuori]

Chris Atkinson scores WRC drive with MINI - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/08/16/chris-atkinson-scores-wrc-drive-with-mini/)

Full house for Atko this season considering car makes.

[Andre Oliveira]

WRC Team MINI Portugal News Flash - Araújo Out (http://mad.ly/c8f203?facebook_like=true#)

[OldF]

Chris Atkinson scores WRC drive with MINI - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/08/16/chris-atkinson-scores-wrc-drive-with-mini/)

Full house for Atko this season considering car makes.

Maybe he can bring some sponsors with him?

[Andre Oliveira]

Sad news, now that Armindo would compete with the O1B version ...

He should pick up the rest of the budget and rent a DS3 for rallye.

[Barreis]

Now it's mini Portugal team without Portuguese driver. :P

[Sulland]

Sandell also drove a BRR Skoda a few years ago. The are a very good team. When you are a paying cusdtomer it is a balance of quality versus costs, remember Eyvind Brynildsen's season withe Rene Georges? then it was run by FG Racing, under the Petter Solberg Team entry.

It costs a lot of money to run a rallycar over a season.

[Sulland]

Chris Atkinson scores WRC drive with MINI - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/08/16/chris-atkinson-scores-wrc-drive-with-mini/)

Full house for Atko this season considering car makes.

So he is evaluating for a 2013 campaign.... !!!

[I am evil Homer]

Last chance saloon for Atko IMO....needs some solid results and not crashing if he wants backing for next year.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I told you he (Atkinson) was driving a MINI in Germany ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

But Armindo Araujo should have NOT been given "time to refocus" bunch of BS. Yes he isn't a top driver but when I spoke to him in NZ, he was not that happy with the MINI. I think it's a hard decision... specially if your not happy with the car!

[GigiGalliNo1]

WRC Team MINI Portugal News Flash (http://mad.ly/c8f203?facebook_like=true#)

[makinen_fan]

Chris Atkinson MINI VNR - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntODrwrMDs&feature=em-uploademail)

[Barreis]

So 2 good drivers in mini. On tarmac Sordo will be fast and on gravel now Atkinson can show real potential of the car. Biggest winner is Richards, more sold cars. :D

[mousti]

I guess Paddon's Evo X will be an HRT one? Do you know which car Bresolin will use? RRC or WRC spec?

Don't think so after the tragedy I thought HRT wouldn't compete anymore this year.. Understandable but good for business isn't it.

I think it'll be one from BRR who's an official partner of Ralliart Italy.

[Nornbugger]

So 2 good drivers in mini. On tarmac Sordo will be fast and on gravel now Atkinson can show real potential of the car. Biggest winner is Richards, more sold cars. :D

I think the potential on gravel has already been shown, Atko is good but he'd have nothing to teach Sordo or Meeke

[Bartolbia84]

Photos du mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=388367237896895&set=a.194928083907479.45503.126072887459666&type=1&theater)

HRT official page - Facebook

[COD]

I really hope he's going to try a Fiesta WRC or DS3 WRC... No more excuses. :)

A privateer, with medium results in Finnish championship and no WRC experIence (Tahko) was faster than Armindo in Finland. I think that was the last straw that broke the camels back.

And we can see, what kind of results Atko will make, most probably much better than Armindos. So I see no point in him wasting any more money...

[N.O.T]

we are also going to see how bad the mini Araujo uses is... lets see if the accusations are true.

[mousti]

Photos du mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=388367237896895&set=a.194928083907479.45503.126072887459666&type=1&theater)

HRT official page - Facebook
I was wrong then...

[rallye-vid]

we are also going to see how bad the mini Araujo uses is... lets see if the accusations are true.

We will never know.. As Atko will get the 'better' mini 01B ;)

[Luis Pacheco]

Now it's mini Portugal team without Portuguese driver. :P

Like Skoda UK. ;)

[rp]

Great to see Atko driving regularly Word Rally Car!

Shame for Araújo, but if you think about more the case it will open. There was only seven events for him in the beginning of the season and Armindo Araujo WRT (prepared by Motorsport Italia) was registered as a WRC Teams to contest the FIA World Rally Championship for Manufacturers. Seven events was enough to be eligible for the points, when being only WRC Teams.

They contested already the first Round in Monte Carlo, but after that Prodrive and their MINI WRC Team (already registered as a Manufacturers) noticed that it will be impossible for them to contest the whole WRC series.

And then Prodrive agreed with FIA that newly created WRC Team MINI Portugal (prepared by Motorsport Italia) was to replace MINI WRC Team in the series to contest the FIA World Rally Championship for Manufacturers.

They knew the situation already in February and there has been a lot of time to find new driver after Araújo has contested his program. It has to be remember that it was vital for Prodrive and also for BMW/MINI that some MINI team was registered as a Manufacturers team and contested the whole WRC series with two cars. Without this MINI John Cooper Works WRC would have never got the official homologation to be a World Rally Car.

The story will not tell how much Atkinson has to pay to drive Motorsport Italia´s MINI, but I would say that also Prodrive and BMW/MINI are supporting this program, because it is only way to achieve the homologation. After that Prodrive is able to sell new generation World Rally Cars and BMW has fulfilled their agreement with Prodrive. Hopefully the co-operation will continue next season, but I have a doubt...

[Mirek]

Like Skoda UK. ;)

Yes but Norwegian driver is some kind of tradition for Škoda UK. It used to be John Haugland and with Andreas Mikkelsen it's a kind of continuing the story. I even think John somehow participated on the career of Andreas at least I think he brought him to the steering wheel of Fabia S2000 in Škoda home event - Bohemia 2009...

[spiderem]

Good news for atko. lets hope he will show some good pace for the rest of the season, so maybe he can secure a No2 factory seat at citroen for next year, with Hirvo No1 as Loeb will end at the end of this season ;)
to be continued...

[N.O.T]

Good news for atko. lets hope he will show some good pace for the rest of the season, so maybe he can secure a No2 factory seat at citroen for next year

Even if he wins all stages and all events from now on, that thing is not going to happen. At best he is going to get support to drive some events next year as well...

[Barreis]

He did nothing this year so here's the chance.

[spiderem]

Even if he wins all stages and all events from now on, that thing is not going to happen. At best he is going to get support to drive some events next year as well...
why not?

[Plan9]

Were the sponsors on Armindo's car affiliated to him or Motorsport Italia? I only ask as I think it will be interesting to see how the livery will change once Atko gets to Germany.

[Sander D.]

I hope they keep the black & white / chequered flag-livery.

[rallyfiend]

Were the sponsors on Armindo's car affiliated to him or Motorsport Italia? I only ask as I think it will be interesting to see how the livery will change once Atko gets to Germany.

They were definitely associated with him. And have been for some years during his PWRC days.

It shouldn't be such a surprise that he's been moved on. He was only really planning a 7 round campaign, and he's had 8.

They obviously have the budget to do the full 13, so why not get someone in who can both top that up and bring better results?

Perhaps it's part of Motorsport Italia's plan to secure a 2013 contribution from BMW.

[manta400]

They were definitely associated with him. And have been for some years during his PWRC days.

It shouldn't be such a surprise that he's been moved on. He was only really planning a 7 round campaign, and he's had 8.

They obviously have the budget to do the full 13, so why not get someone in who can both top that up and bring better results?

Perhaps it's part of Motorsport Italia's plan to secure a 2013 contribution from BMW.

I bet Kris Meeke feels a right plonker just now, why wouldnt Richards use him?

[rallyfiend]

I bet Kris Meeke feels a right plonker just now, why wouldnt Richards use him?

Because Richards has nothing to do with this team.

[tolis]

Chris Atkinson's car

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/426983_4452247669880_921450527_n.jpg

[Red bull]

FIA aware of VW's F1 foray plans for 2015 | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-aware-of-vw-s-f1-foray-plans-for-2015-424697/) VW FOR F1???

[EightGear]

So, VW Scirocco R cup at the Nurburgring this weekend and VW's WRC drivers show the regulars how it's done.

Results - Volkswagen Motorsport (http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/ergebnisse/detail.php?&st=26&lg=e&sjahr=2012&serie=scirocco_cup&lauf=06&option=frei1&ort=N%FCrburgring&tag=17.08&monat=17.08.2012&jahr=2012&usersprache=&nr=06&datum2=18.08)

[A FONDO]

So, VW Scirocco R cup at the Nurburgring this weekend and VW's WRC drivers show the regulars how it's done.

Results - Volkswagen Motorsport (http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/ergebnisse/detail.php?&st=26&lg=e&sjahr=2012&serie=scirocco_cup&lauf=06&option=frei1&ort=N%FCrburgring&tag=17.08&monat=17.08.2012&jahr=2012&usersprache=&nr=06&datum2=18.08)

I'm pretty well surprised these cars are only 10 seconds per lap slower than the F1 monsters.

[N.O.T]

why not?

hmmmmm maybe the fact that he hasn't driven a full season for some time now ?? maybe because there are guys better than him ?? maybe because he is too old ?? maybe because Loeb will continue ???

this forum needs an age filter.

[AndyRAC]

I'm pretty well surprised these cars are only 10 seconds per lap slower than the F1 monsters.

They're not using the full GP circuit, but the shortened version.

[A FONDO]

They're not using the full GP circuit, but the shortened version.

So half a second is even bigger difference, provided cars are all the same.

Which Sainz is one second behind?

[EightGear]

So half a second is even bigger difference, provided cars are all the same.

Which Sainz is one second behind?

Carlos sr. For those who haven't noticed, Kankkunen and Alen are also part of the field.

[Luis Pacheco]

Armindo with VW in 2013 beside Ogier.

WRC Team Mini Portugal mantem nome (http://www.lusomotores.com/index.php/desporto/327-mundial-de-ralis-wrc/armindo-araujo/25991-wrc-team-mini-portugal-mantem-nome)

Have not stopped laughing

[tolis]

Older and future champions!

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/423409_4078802941958_432145567_n.jpg

[rallyfiend]

Armindo with VW in 2013 beside Ogier.

WRC Team Mini Portugal mantem nome (http://www.lusomotores.com/index.php/desporto/327-mundial-de-ralis-wrc/armindo-araujo/25991-wrc-team-mini-portugal-mantem-nome)

Have not stopped laughing

That is quite amusing.

The bosses at VW wouldn't even know who AA was.

[oerigh]

hmmmmm maybe the fact that he hasn't driven a full season for some time now ?? maybe because there are guys better than him ?? maybe because he is too old ?? maybe because Loeb will continue ???

this forum needs an age filter.

I'm only hoping for an IQ filter. That way we could get rid of this kind of worthless drivel...

[N.O.T]

I'm only hoping for an IQ filter. That way we could get rid of this kind of worthless drivel...

no.... i am one of the smarter people in here... sorry. plus is difficult to implement...

age is better and far easier and applicable.

[mousti]

I'm only hoping for an IQ filter. That way we could get rid of this kind of worthless drivel...

Getting rid of NOT with that won't help, pretty sure it's quite high. :D And that article is hopefully from a joking site who makes fun of people sarcastically ? :p

[spiderem]

I think an ego filter will help a lot in this case. Regarding the age filter, if you get rid of all the person below 30 as you suggest, i think you will feel a bit lonely on your forum. It shouldnt matter maybe as you are the best and the only one knowing the truth.
If loeb does stop, tell who do you think will take seat no 2 then???

[N.O.T]

I think an ego filter will help a lot in this case. Regarding the age filter, if you get rid of all the person below 30 as you suggest, i think you will feel a bit lonely on your forum. It shouldnt matter maybe as you are the best and the only one knowing the truth.
If loeb does stop, tell who do you think will take seat no 2 then???

Hmmmm.... let me think.... Hmmmmmm... maybe a guy they invested a serious amount of cash on this year ?? maybe a young guy with consistent scoring throughout the year ??? maybe a guy who proved is he third to none on tarmac and has experience with a team and happens to be from a country with a huge market ???

are these three enough ???? or you think they will go for a guy with a consistent crash record and who has really shown he cannot beat any of the other rivals ???

about the filter.... no posts for people below 20 and above 50... that should ensure my mental health...or whats left of it at least...

[Prisoner Monkeys]

FIA aware of VW's F1 foray plans for 2015 | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-aware-of-vw-s-f1-foray-plans-for-2015-424697/) VW FOR F1???
VW have been linked to Formula 1 on a pretty regular basis. Ever since the 2014 engine regulations were announced, this rumour pops up every six months or so. And while there has been some truth to it - VW openly admitted that they seriously considered it at one point - they have constantly shot down the rumours.

[stefanvv]

Armindo with VW in 2013 beside Ogier.

WRC Team Mini Portugal mantem nome (http://www.lusomotores.com/index.php/desporto/327-mundial-de-ralis-wrc/armindo-araujo/25991-wrc-team-mini-portugal-mantem-nome)

Have not stopped laughing

What?!? Why should VW get a driver fighting for 1st place and another for 10th?!?

[spiderem]

Hmmmm.... let me think.... Hmmmmmm... maybe a guy they invested a serious amount of cash on this year ?? maybe a young guy with consistent scoring throughout the year ??? maybe a guy who proved is he third to none on tarmac and has experience with a team and happens to be from a country with a huge market ???

are these three enough ???? or you think they will go for a guy with a consistent crash record and who has really shown he cannot beat any of the other rivals ???

about the filter.... no posts for people below 20 and above 50... that should ensure my mental health...or whats left of it at least...

Okay, neuville : i think he crashed quite a lot this year didn't he? and yet to finish on the podium...
Tanak : well last year at the same period, people where saying that he had to potential to be factory driver for Ford, yet to finish on the podium
Novikov : yes big country with huge market potential, quite fast and consistent this year, but did he not had the choice to drive a citroen for the second half of the season? why did he choose to stick with Ford?

So i personnaly think that atko can easily mix with them 3, he still has more podiums than the 3 put together, and the podium he had was with a dying impreza...

Unless I don't understand who you are thinking of...

[Prisoner Monkeys]

If Loeb does stop, then Citroen will no doubt have a few potential candidates in mind. I suspect they're setting Mikko Hirvonen up as Loeb's successor - and Hirvonen's move to Citroen only really makes sense if he's been promised a team leadership role once Loeb moves on - so what they're really going to be looking for is someone who can fill Hirvonen's role as the number two driver. Neuville seems to be the most-likely candidate, but I wouldn't put it past Citroen to try and poach Ostberg or maybe Novikov.

Citroen's biggest problem is that they don't really offer anything in the way of support for customer teams. Outside the Citroen WRT, only a handful of customers have appeared in DS3s compared to the other teams. There have never been more than five WRC-spec Citroens on any entry list; for example, they fielded Loeb, Hirvonen, van Merksteijn and al-Attiyah in Portugal. Compare that to Ford, who had nine WRC-spec Fiestas - for Latvala, Solberg, Tanak, Novikov, Oliveria, Kuipers, Ostberg, Ketomaa, and Prokop - at the same event. They really need to knuclke down and find someone who can run a customer Citroen team or two at as many events as possible in 2013 if they want to stand any chance of finding some talent to move up into their works cars. They need to look to the junior categories and pick up drivers like Breen, Guerra, Kosciuszko, Paddon, Evans and Meeke, and nurture them, because the alternative is to try and steal drivers away from the other teams - and with Volkswagen entering in 2013, and with Mini hopefully stepping up their involvement (Prodrive screwed up, but the Araujo-Nobre combination hasn't worked at all), they're going to be caught with their pants down before long. Ferrari did exactly the same thing in Formula 1 when they missed the boat on establishing young driver programs, and they were forced to watch as their rivals picked up the likes of Hamilton and Vettel. It was years before they were able to get the program up and running and find anyone of their own (Perez), and in the meantime, they have been stuck running the uncompetitive Felipe Massa. If Citroen aren't careful, they're going to find themselves in exactly the same position. They're at the front at the moment, but that just means that everyone else has more to gain by snaring young talent.

[darkstar]

neuville is great, he show´s he´s really fast and of course also crashes here and there but thats normal. and i also think that atkinson is a very good driver. he´s out of wrc for quite a while bu he´s still fast and i still believe that he´s better then solberg. he was faster than him in the impreza in the last season. i´m exited what he can do with the mini.

[Nornbugger]

Even if he wins all stages and all events from now on, that thing is not going to happen. At best he is going to get support to drive some events next year as well...

BS arguement as this will never happen, but if it did I am sure team bosses would overlook Atkos erratic past, his lack of seat time and his age.

Ps, how about a post number filter? Anyone with as much to say as you should surely be a journalist by now and being paid rather than limiting your wisdom to this place?

[MartijnS]

Abbring qualified as second, Ogier as eigth at the Nurburgring :)

Results (http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/ergebnisse/detail.php?&st=26&lg=e&sjahr=2012&serie=scirocco_cup&lauf=06&option=zeit1&ort=N%FCrburgring&tag=17.08&monat=17.08.2012&jahr=2012&usersprache=&nr=06&datum2=18.08)

[N.O.T]

Okay, neuville : i think he crashed quite a lot this year didn't he? and yet to finish on the podium...
Tanak : well last year at the same period, people where saying that he had to potential to be factory driver for Ford, yet to finish on the podium
Novikov : yes big country with huge market potential, quite fast and consistent this year, but did he not had the choice to drive a citroen for the second half of the season? why did he choose to stick with Ford?

So i personnaly think that atko can easily mix with them 3, he still has more podiums than the 3 put together, and the podium he had was with a dying impreza...

Unless I don't understand who you are thinking of...

lol....1 out of 3 correct..... you fail.

[N.O.T]

BS arguement as this will never happen, but if it did I am sure team bosses would overlook Atkos erratic past, his lack of seat time and his age.

Ps, how about a post number filter? Anyone with as much to say as you should surely be a journalist by now and being paid rather than limiting your wisdom to this place?

that is the beauty of the interwebs... all my knowledge and insight are for free.... i am a very nice person.

I do not consider journalism a profession.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

@Prisoner Monkeys: Neuville his talent was discovered by Ford, that's how succesful their strategy is... He won a contest and got to drive a year with the Fiesta supported by RACB (Belgian federation) in the Fiesta Sporting Trophy in Belgium. He showed that he had a lot of talent. But there was no support from Ford to help him up the ladder. Fortunately Citroën helped him. The only thing Ford has now are paying privateers, they are good, but I don't see any of them becoming a champion. Neuville is on the same pace in his first year in the WRC while they have 3 or more years of experience.
Nevertheless, Citroen need to do more. They cannot simply count on luring the best talent Ford has to offer over to their side of the fence every single time. Especially since more manufacturers are coming into the sport. I can see Volkswagen supporting a second non-works team (like Ford with M-Sport), and I hope Mini realise their mistake in the way they handled the Prodrive issue.

[spiderem]

lol....1 out of 3 correct..... you fail.

I did fail because your posts are as clear as mud.
Please put some name on your assumptions, to help us understand you, and maybe protect your mental health... or whats left of it... as you very well quoted ;)

[Barreis]

What's great about Neuville?!

[MartijnS]

Abbring finished the race as second too, Ogier fourth 18 seconds behind Abbring :)

[N.O.T]

What's great about Neuville?!

some things compared to the competition.... but certainly A LOT of things compared to Atko.

[N.O.T]

I did fail because your posts are as clear as mud.
Please put some name on your assumptions, to help us understand you, and maybe protect your mental health... or whats left of it... as you very well quoted ;)

Neuville
Ostberg
Sordo

all of them can do far better than Atko.

[EightGear]

Abbring finished the race as second too, Ogier fourth 18 seconds behind Abbring :)

Abbring's quick adaptability shows once more. :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Atkinson got to Germany testing with the team pretty quick from Queensland Australia... It must have been in the plans for at least a few weeks. It would cost at least $3,000 to fly the next day from Aus to Europe and then see pics of him with MINi that fast! :o

[rallyfiend]

Atkinson got to Germany testing with the team pretty quick from Queensland Australia... It must have been in the plans for at least a few weeks. It would cost at least $3,000 to fly the next day from Aus to Europe and then see pics of him with MINi that fast! :o

Maybe not a few weeks, but certainly some time it must have been known, as the WRC Commission will have had to take a vote to agree to the change of driver.

[stefanvv]

Atkinson have to show he is still capable of top positions. He went to NORF full of confidence he can even climb to the podium, but he was far from it before crashed out. The crash itself tells he need to drive little more in WRC before hoping for more, little humility won't harm him.

[tfp]

Atkinson have to show he is still capable of top positions. He went to NORF full of confidence he can even climb to the podium, but he was far from it before crashed out. The crash itself tells he need to drive little more in WRC before hoping for more, little humility won't harm him.

I think he still has it, he may not be able to fight for championships but only Loeb can fight for championships at the minute. I think he will fight for podiums, but theres only one way to find out.

Does anyone know whats hapening with Meeke?

[TyPat107]

I think he still has it, he may not be able to fight for championships but only Loeb can fight for championships at the minute. I think he will fight for podiums, but theres only one way to find out.

Does anyone know whats hapening with Meeke?

I thought it was odd that the already contracted mini driver (Meeke) wasn't put in as a replacement. Wasn't there rumors of him moving to irc next year? Maybe he is under a new contract with another team and can't do anything else.

[jbmarcus21]

Full Gallery [PHOTOS] Chris Atkinson testing Rallye Deutschland http://bit.ly/PF0mJ5

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9449/5494.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/5494.jpg/)

[A FONDO]

There's a rumour that Rally Sardegna's organizers proposed to VW to bring the Polo, VW answered they would be glad to see it in action before the homologation.

Such car can participate in local championship in group X, cant it?


p.s. sorry that was for news&rumours thread, big brother can move it

[tfp]

I thought it was odd that the already contracted mini driver (Meeke) wasn't put in as a replacement. Wasn't there rumors of him moving to irc next year? Maybe he is under a new contract with another team and can't do anything else.

I heard somewhere he competed in a local event in ireland recently, but I cant remember which event, or even the car he was driving. I wouldnt blame him for moving to IRC, at least he might get a drive there.

[Maxi]

I heard somewhere he competed in a local event in ireland recently, but I cant remember which event, or even the car he was driving. I wouldnt blame him for moving to IRC, at least he might get a drive there.

He drove a Mini WRC.

[tfp]

I thought it was odd that the already contracted mini driver (Meeke) wasn't put in as a replacement. Wasn't there rumors of him moving to irc next year? Maybe he is under a new contract with another team and can't do anything else.

Er, according to this article
Fans angered by Kris Meeke omission - Rally Ireland, Motorsport - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/rally-ireland/fans-angered-by-kris-meeke-omission-16096610.html)
He still has around 18 months of contract left. An old article I know, I suppose anything could have hapened between then and now.

[tfp]

He drove a Mini WRC.


Definetly a WRC? Thanks, BTW :)

[logic]

It is amazing the assumptions made on forums . From people who are mere spectators and think they know what is going on in the sport.

[Plan9]

I think the speed that Atko has shown over the last 2 events he did was enough to get the 5 rounds he now has with the Mini. He was faster than Armindo irrespective of his crashes.

About Meeke, not much news from his camp lately. All I know is that Prodrive says it cannot offer him any drives this year. A rumor I heard at Rally NZ was that there were going to be more Minis in next years championship than this year...

[Plan9]

If Loeb does stop, then Citroen will no doubt have a few potential candidates in mind. I suspect they're setting Mikko Hirvonen up as Loeb's successor - and Hirvonen's move to Citroen only really makes sense if he's been promised a team leadership role once Loeb moves on - so what they're really going to be looking for is someone who can fill Hirvonen's role as the number two driver. Neuville seems to be the most-likely candidate, but I wouldn't put it past Citroen to try and poach Ostberg or maybe Novikov.

Citroen's biggest problem is that they don't really offer anything in the way of support for customer teams. Outside the Citroen WRT, only a handful of customers have appeared in DS3s compared to the other teams. There have never been more than five WRC-spec Citroens on any entry list; for example, they fielded Loeb, Hirvonen, van Merksteijn and al-Attiyah in Portugal. Compare that to Ford, who had nine WRC-spec Fiestas - for Latvala, Solberg, Tanak, Novikov, Oliveria, Kuipers, Ostberg, Ketomaa, and Prokop - at the same event. They really need to knuclke down and find someone who can run a customer Citroen team or two at as many events as possible in 2013 if they want to stand any chance of finding some talent to move up into their works cars. They need to look to the junior categories and pick up drivers like Breen, Guerra, Kosciuszko, Paddon, Evans and Meeke, and nurture them, because the alternative is to try and steal drivers away from the other teams - and with Volkswagen entering in 2013, and with Mini hopefully stepping up their involvement (Prodrive screwed up, but the Araujo-Nobre combination hasn't worked at all), they're going to be caught with their pants down before long. Ferrari did exactly the same thing in Formula 1 when they missed the boat on establishing young driver programs, and they were forced to watch as their rivals picked up the likes of Hamilton and Vettel. It was years before they were able to get the program up and running and find anyone of their own (Perez), and in the meantime, they have been stuck running the uncompetitive Felipe Massa. If Citroen aren't careful, they're going to find themselves in exactly the same position. They're at the front at the moment, but that just means that everyone else has more to gain by snaring young talent.

+1 I agree. As some of you may know Meeke had a testing contract with Citroen WRT before his 2009 glory year. The story goes they would have offered him a drive but he was of the wrong nationality. I fear that may also be an issue for someone like Hayden in the future.

@darkstar- Atko has been the fastest driver in the APRC 2 years running, he was clearly too go for all the other s2000 runners- even PG!!! That should have got him something in Europe even if he didn't do the 2 events he did this year in WRC.

[vkangas]

Is there a german speaking member who could roughly translate this article about Esapekka Lappi? It's about his IRC plans etc.
Lappi will in die IRC*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/08/17/lappi-will-in-die-irc/index.html)

[MartijnS]

He wants do to an international program next year, preferabelly with a S2000 in the IRC. Cause he is missing experience on tarmac.
Last two alineas are about his past.
So nothing special in this article ;)

[vkangas]

He wants do to an international program next year, preferabelly with a S2000 in the IRC. Cause he is missing experience on tarmac.
Last two alineas are about his past.
So nothing special in this article ;)
Ok, Thanks!

[COD]

Maybe Lappi will replace Mikkelsen in Skoda UK car?

[Juha_Koo]

Lappi will have a meeting with his management team etc. on Wednesday, I think we will hear the details of his 2013 programme then. :)


Maybe Lappi will replace Mikkelsen in Skoda UK car?

I doubt it, as he commented that he won't do full championship(s), but selected rallies.

[Mirek]

Maybe Lappi will replace Mikkelsen in Skoda UK car?

I don't think so. And in some way I hope that he stays with Ford.

[AndyRAC]

Maybe Lappi will replace Mikkelsen in Skoda UK car?

I doubt it, there would be even more outrage than last time, even though Mikkelsen was the right choice. When there are British drivers without seats, it would cause a huge stink.

[EightGear]

Maybe Evans?

[alleskids]

would Kevin Abring not be a more logical replacement in the VW/Skoda UK IRC drive?

[Mirek]

No

[dimviii]

tragedy in Serbia with 3 dead spectators....
Tragedija na brdskoj trci Tara 2012 (snimak nezgode) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVtmkXgkLIg)

Tragic end had one rally Tara Mountain in southwest Serbia. A driver Bosnian Branimir Simic, lost control of his car a few hundred meters before the finish and ran into four spectators, killing three and one being injured. The first victim "died" during the evacuation at the local hospital, during the second surgery to repair the serious wounds and the third in the intensive care unit hospital in Belgrade, where he had moved with serious head injuries. The fourth person injured is out of danger. After the tragic accident of the race did not continue.

[url=http://www.palo.gr/cluster/articles/mhxanokinhtos-athlitismos/725/?clid=5419981]ΤÏ

[igi]

Can serbian forumers confirm, but I think one spectator (in blue striped shirt) in above video said that spectators didn't listen marshals to move from that area...

RIP

[MartijnS]

The Dutch article about this said indeed that the spectators were standing in a forbidden zone. It was at a hillclimb by the way..

[Sulland]

What a car and what a driver: RENAULT ALPINE A110-50 - The movie with Jean Ragnotti - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-11A-FtTibs&feature=youtu.be)

Hopefully the car will go to production!

[COD]

I don't think so. And in some way I hope that he stays with Ford.

Why not? Same management as Mikkelsen, similar path... Not so far fetched...

[Mirek]

I know but I think it will be British driver. Anyway some competition with other cars is needed ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

I think the speed that Atko has shown over the last 2 events he did was enough to get the 5 rounds he now has with the Mini. He was faster than Armindo irrespective of his crashes.

About Meeke, not much news from his camp lately. All I know is that Prodrive says it cannot offer him any drives this year. A rumor I heard at Rally NZ was that there were going to be more Minis in next years championship than this year...

Sure... The car is the same.... Citroën and Ford aren't better than MINI.

[Plan9]

Armindo has had more seat time in a WRC spec car mind you. 7-8 events should have got Armindo's confidence enough to push harder than he did. Atko has been driving a customer spec Fabia and Protons in APRC and until this year no access to WRC machines.

[Hartusvuori]

Why not? Same management as Mikkelsen, similar path... Not so far fetched...

Lappi is still at least 3 seasons behind Mikkelsen's experience by the time he got the Skoda UK deal. Next season for Lappi should be the serious practice year, to get to know the events, car, try some limits and have the offs. No need to rush.

[Brother John]

@ Hartusvuori, i have moved your video to http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/112617-video-thread.html

Not really.. There's so much paying boys in WRC at the moment that team bosses don't have needs to pay anyone.. Petter Solberg is better driver then Hirvonen and Latvala for me but that guys were payers so after some they became standard works drivers (Latvala is not paid from ford at all).. There are only two HIGHLY PAID drivers at the moment in WRC: The Ice Man and Seb.Loeb.. Unfortunately..

[HarriK]

. There are only two HIGHLY PAID drivers at the moment in WRC: The Ice Man and Seb.Loeb.. Unfortunately..

IceMan aka Räikkönen is not driving WRC at the moment...

[rallyfiend]

. There are only two HIGHLY PAID drivers at the moment in WRC: The Ice Man and Seb.Loeb.. Unfortunately..

Ogier is not in the sport as a charity, and Hirvonen is on a very good deal this year with Citroen.

[Barreis]

Not really.. There's so much paying boys in WRC at the moment that team bosses don't have needs to pay anyone.. Petter Solberg is better driver then Hirvonen and Latvala for me but that guys were payers so after some they became standard works drivers (Latvala is not paid from ford at all).. There are only two HIGHLY PAID drivers at the moment in WRC: The Ice Man and Seb.Loeb.. Unfortunately..

Well we all know this and that's why the sport is so bad. But Ogier should change something next year maybe.

[eestlane]

Didin´t Ogier have a 10mil EUR deal with VW?
Hirvonen had a great deal too with Citroen
And both Ford drivers get paid too but less than the other guys i think.
Loeb gets 16mil.
Soo every fast driver in the championship gets paid and alot.

[N.O.T]

And both Ford drivers get paid too but less than the other guys i think.


that is debatable....

[DonJippo]

that is debatable....

No it is not.

[DonJippo]

A lot of people here talk about things like facts while they are only guessing...

I'm not guessing.

[Rallyper]

So where are your facts?

I shouldn´t question Don Jippo if I were you. He knows so much more than you´d ever know. Exactly DJ?

[danon]

The truth is more important than the facts.
How on earth can YOU! you know who's reading whose contracts.

[danon]

Unless you have been reading all contracts, it IS debatable. A lot of people here talk about things like facts while they are only guessing...

Going this way - Unless YOU! have been reading all contracts it IS NOT? debatable. Did you?
A lot of people here talk about things like facts while they are only guessing... Except YOU! - I guess.

Debatable - A slippery word!

[danon]

So where are your facts?

In his signature:

There are two rules for success
1. Never tell everything you know.

Deal with it!

[tfp]

I dont know anything about the wages and salary of drivers and co drivers, I do know that M sport is a private firm in NW england, and Citroen is a pretty big car manufacturer. And Donjippo seems to know what he's talking about.

[stefanvv]

Don't M-Sport have smaller budget than Citroen Racing? I believe they have (at least that what the "rumours" are saying).

[spiderem]

As people seems to know a lot of things, anybody know what happened with "go fast"? Where they not supposed to have 2 cars the full season???

[FAlonso]

Official statement from Armindo Araújo (from the offical Facebook page) regarding the Motorsport Italia situation. Unbelievable is all I can say.

For those interested check out the facebook/original version which contains the attachment(couldn´t copy it) mentioned in point 2 of the text which is also unbelievable. Text in both Portuguese and English.

"PT/

Após a comunicação por parte da Motorsport Itália (MSI) sobre a dispensa da dupla portuguesa do WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL, Armindo Araújo entendeu só agora estarem reunidas todas ascondições para fazer o seguinte esclarecimento:

I- Com os objetivos bem definidos para o projeto 2012, iniciamos a temporada com um interessante resultado no Rali de Monte Carlo, sendo que, apenas no Rali da Suécia arrancamos com a equipa WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL. A partir do Rali do México, a terceira prova do calendário começou a surgir, por parte da MSI, uma tentativa de camuflagem dos problemas mecânicos e a clara ideia que apenas os pilotos Armindo Araújo e Paulo Nobre eram responsáveis pelos fatos ocorridos durante as provas. A partir desta altura, a MSI, iniciou também uma tomada de posição sobre os meus comunicados de imprensa, referindo que eu falava mal da equipa e da marca. Todas as minhas comunicações foram aprovadas pela MINI PORTUGAL e em nenhuma delas existe tais referências. Sempre defendi a marca e a equipa que represento.

II- Para preparar a fase de asfalto e a estreia com o MINI JCW WRC versão 01B, fui convidado no dia 17 de Julho para uma sessão de testes em Itália que se realizaria entre os dias 10 e 12 de agosto. No dia 8, fui informado do local por coordenadas de GPS. Durante os três dias que permaneci em Itália, lamentavelmente não fui autorizado a efetuar qualquer teste, mas sim pressionado a declarar-me doente e incapacitado para alinhar no Rali da Alemanha. (em anexo envio email da proposta da MSI para comunicar a suposta doença). Nesta altura fiquei incrédulo com tal proposta.

III- No dia 15 de agosto a MSI pede-me autorização para utilizar a licença desportiva doWRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL, propriedade da empresa Armindo Araújo Lda, com um outro piloto até ao final do ano. Facto que, por razões óbvias não aceitei, até porque, como se compreenderá, já previa o desfecho. No dia seguinte, 16 de agosto, a MSI informa-me que não correria mais pela equipa, ou qualquer outra do seu grupo, quer no Rali da Alemanha como nas restantes provas do calendário até final do ano, sem qualquer explicação ou justificação.

IV- No dia 17 de agosto, informei a MSI; MINI Alemanha; MINI Portugal que reuni toda a documentação e informação existente sobre o caso, e entreguei à equipa de advogados liderada pelo Dr. José Pedro Gomes, que tomará todas as diligências legais necessárias para defender o meu bom nome e a defesa do projeto nacional que muito me honra.

V- Sempre foi minha posição defender a verdade a justiça e a transparência. Todos o smeus patrocinadores, já informados de todos estes acontecimentos, revêem-se na minha tomada de posição. Por tudo isso e pela ligação à minha imagem, entendemos retirar toda a publicidade no carro número 12 da equipa WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL.

Para finalizar, comunico que, como era meu dever, informei a FIA de todos os fato ssucedidos, aguardando serenamente o desenrolar dos processos em curso, confiante e crente que a verdade desportiva, a imagem dos patrocinadores, o meu bom nome, e aimagem do País sejam repostas, o que é de inteira justiça.

EN/

Following the media release issued by Motorsport Italia, informing that Armindo Araújo and Miguel Ramalho will no longer be part of WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL, Armindo Araújo considers that now is the right time to issue this statement after compiling all the facts and seek the truth. Therefore he would like to clarify all points linked to this matter:

I- There were clear objectives set for the project in 2012. We started the season with a very interesting result in Rally Montecarlo but only in Rally Sweden we launched theWRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL. From Rally Mexico onwards, Motorsport Italia attempted to camouflage all technical problems and blame the faults of the same, to the drivers Armindo Araújo and Paulo Nobre. From this moment also, Motorsport Italia, tried to object against my Media Releases, arguing that there were negative mentions to the team and Mini itself. I would like to reiterate that all Media releases were previously approved by Mini Portugal and in no circumstance there were negative references to them. I always defended the team and brand with whom I was linked to.

II - To prepare the asphalt phase of WRC and the new MINI JCW WRC version 01B, I was invited by Motorsport Italia, on the 17th of July, 2012, for a test program to be held in Italy between 10th and 12th of August. Only on the 8th of August, 2012, I received the GPS coordinates of the location. During the three days I’ve stayed in Italy and I was not allowed to test the car, instead I was put under pressure to declare myself sick and to take no part in Rally Germany - in attachment proposal from Motorsport Italia, of my incapability, writing their own text to communicate the "disease". At that time I could not believe I was receiving such proposal or suggestion.

III- On the 15th of August 2012, Motorsport Italia, requests me permission to use the license of WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL - which exclusively belongs to Armindo Araújo,Lda - to be used with another driver up till the end of the season. For obvious reasons I declined the permission to use the license. On the following day the 16th of August, Motorsport Italia informed me that I am no longer the driver of the team or any associated team of the group starting from Rally Germany and till the end of the season with no justification or valid explanation.

IV- On the 17th of August, I informed Motorsport Italia, MINI Germany and MINI Portugal that I have collected all necessary documentation about this matter and deliverit to my team of lawyers, lead by Dr. José Pedro Gomes, who will take all necessary legal actions to protect my name and as well the project which I respect enormously and now sees national values in stake.

V- It has been always my position to seek for the truth and respect the justice. All my Sponsors have been already informed of all the facts and support me entirely on my decision to take this matter to legal action. For all said above, and due to the straight link to my image, myself and my sponsors agree to remove all the advertising of car number12 of WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL.

To finish, I would like to inform that according to my duty, I have reported all the facts to FIA, and I am currently waiting for their feedback, believing that the truth is above all, and the good name of myself, my Sponsors and my Country is reestablished and honored respectfully.

[FAlonso]

There were one or two misspellings I corrected from the original text in English. Might be more so bare with it plz.

[FAlonso]

I managed to find a direct link to the attachment mentioned in the 2nd paragraph. For those less "facebook-friendly". -----> http://www.motoresmagazine.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Proposed_Press_Statement.pdf

After reading everything more carefully I'm certain Motorsport Italia's future in World Rallying won´t be long and/or bright.

In my eyes, and putting aside the fact that I've been a fan of Armindo for 10+ years, I firmly believe that if these allegations prove correct, there might be cause for MI's exclusion from the championship. Plain and simple.

Reading the statement, I think it's clear that a legal battle will arise from all of this. Bad for rallying, bad for Mini, bad for Armindo , very bad (I hope) for MI.

One must not forget that this Rallyart Italy branch only exists due to Armindo and his sponsors. He was running on his own dime last year and for most of this one with Mini Germany/BMW providing backing for the remaining events just to ensure the homologation process for future years wasn´t jeopardised. (after Prodrive lacking funding)

Also excuses on a sporting level are idiotic from MI's part. Even if the car made available to Armindo wasn´t s*** (which seems clear to me and many others), the only promise he made from the

start of the season was trying to do top 10 finishes.

And that was a promise made to his sponsors and fãs. Not MI, not anybody else. It´s not like being a driver at Citroen or Ford and getting fired for underperforming.

I hope that Armindo can turn this around and come back stronger at his true level (in spite of time not being on his side) . Not Loeb-Latvala-Ogier-Hirvonen-Solberg-like. But better than

these 2 years have shown, I'm sure.

Also I will be sorry if Atkinson gets caught up in the middle. We will have to wait and see how this new chapter of the Mini saga turns out.

[Koppomsbo]

I managed to find a direct link to the attachment mentioned in the 2nd paragraph. For those less "facebook-friendly". -----> http://www.motoresmagazine.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Proposed_Press_Statement.pdf

.

This is not good, not good at all.

[GigiGalliNo1]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/fãs-armindo-araujo/armindo-araújo-a-verdade-desportiva-sempre-the-truth-always-pten/10151360758223916

[Luis Pacheco]

Morning Bruno, morning Armindo, I hope you're both OK. I understand that Bruno's going to speak to the FIA to see what he can do, but in the meantime, please see below some options for the press release. The sections in black are fairly standardand non-controversial, but the sections in italics / different colours are to be discussed. Please let me know what you'd like to do.

Best wishes, Katie
Ola a todos,
It's Armindo here. I'm sure most of you are surprised to hear from me right now, but I'm afraid I have some news that I wanted to tell you all personally. Unfortunately, Miguel and I won't be able to compete in ADAC Rallye Deutschland.
During the season break between New Zealand and Finland, I picked up a back injury from coming off my motorbike. Everything felt OK as we headed into Finland, but after the big jumps on the Finnish gravel, I realised that it was more serious than I thought. Provided I get it fixed as soon as possible, there shouldn't be any long-term damage, but driving again before I'm fully recovered could create a much bigger problem.
During Rally Finland I started to get back pains, landing over some of the bigger jumps. I can't pin- point how or where this started, but ever since the rally finished it's been causing me more and more discomfort. Having spoken to my physio, he says that if I don't want to make the injury worse, I need to rest and certainly can't compete in Rally Germany.
This season has been highly pressurised from start to finish. I only found out following Monte-Carlo that I would get the opportunity to compete in the full 13 event WRC Calendar with a works- supported team instead of doing only seven events as a privateer. This was one of the best pieces of news that any driver can have. However, the pressure has been significant and it's been a big change for me. This transition has finally caught up with me and after speaking to my team in our Rally Finland debrief and more since returning home, we've mutually decided that it's better for me to take some time out, relax and regain my focus on the sport and how I approach it. I hope it's fair to say that I've always been motivated and determined in my career and I've been working with the same team now for many years – we even won two Group N world titles together! However, there's always a point where you have to admit that something isn't quite right and I hope that we've accepted that point at just the right time and that in future I'll be able to come back stronger than ever!
This doesn't mean we're out of your lives though! :-)
All of the fans have been fantastic all year and I hope they'll be equally supportive of whoever replaces me in WRC Team MINI Portugal in Germany. For my part, I'll be passing on all the advice I can and hope to see some top times from the MINIs out in the Mosel vineyards. Don't forget it's WRC Team MINI Portugal so I have a very personal interest in seeing the team get good results.
Germany is one of my favourite rallies and I had my best result last year out in Trier so I'm disappointed not to be able to get back out on the stages. This isn't the last you've seen (or heard) of me! Don't worry,
we'll keep you up-to-date about how I'm getting on and I'll be back as soon as possible.
For now, 'boa sorte' to whoever takes over – they better take good care of my MINI or they'll have me to answer to!
Bye – but only for now, Armindo

Armindo Araújo responde (http://www.ralisonline.net/pt/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3868:armindo-araujo-responde&catid=69:wrc&Itemid=128)

[Luis Pacheco]

the only promise he made from the

start of the season was trying to do top 10 finishes.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb_DAMdxB98

[Red bull]

I managed to find a direct link to the attachment mentioned in the 2nd paragraph. For those less "facebook-friendly". -----> http://www.motoresmagazine.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Proposed_Press_Statement.pdf

After reading everything more carefully I'm certain Motorsport Italia's future in World Rallying won´t be long and/or bright.

In my eyes, and putting aside the fact that I've been a fan of Armindo for 10+ years, I firmly believe that if these allegations prove correct, there might be cause for MI's exclusion from the championship. Plain and simple.

Reading the statement, I think it's clear that a legal battle will arise from all of this. Bad for rallying, bad for Mini, bad for Armindo , very bad (I hope) for MI.

One must not forget that this Rallyart Italy branch only exists due to Armindo and his sponsors. He was running on his own dime last year and for most of this one with Mini Germany/BMW providing backing for the remaining events just to ensure the homologation process for future years wasn´t jeopardised. (after Prodrive lacking funding)

Also excuses on a sporting level are idiotic from MI's part. Even if the car made available to Armindo wasn´t s*** (which seems clear to me and many others), the only promise he made from the

start of the season was trying to do top 10 finishes.

And that was a promise made to his sponsors and fãs. Not MI, not anybody else. It´s not like being a driver at Citroen or Ford and getting fired for underperforming.

I hope that Armindo can turn this around and come back stronger at his true level (in spite of time not being on his side) . Not Loeb-Latvala-Ogier-Hirvonen-Solberg-like. But better than

these 2 years have shown, I'm sure.

Also I will be sorry if Atkinson gets caught up in the middle. We will have to wait and see how this new chapter of the Mini saga turns out.
Araujo is behaving more like a jilted lover.

[Andre Oliveira]

We don't need guys like MSI in sport. I believe in Armindo and Miguel version :) And suported they in the future like in the past.

[FAlonso]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb_DAMdxB98

Is this video from 2012? Or is it more a bit of wishful thinking he had at the start of 2011 without even turning a wheel in the Mini? There are plenty of video interviews/press releases stating what I said.

[RAS007]

Araujo is behaving more like a jilted lover.

I think he is behaving like someone who has been f*cked over.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

As people seems to know a lot of things, anybody know what happened with "go fast"? Where they not supposed to have 2 cars the full season???
I'm not really sure what happened to them, either - but I'm guessing that they found it to be very, very expensive. They went from the naming-rights sponsor of a two-car team to having a significantly smaller decale on the side of Ott Tanak's car.

[spiderem]

I'm not really sure what happened to them, either - but I'm guessing that they found it to be very, very expensive. They went from the naming-rights sponsor of a two-car team to having a significantly smaller decale on the side of Ott Tanak's car.
Thanks. I guess the budget is slightly different for a minuscule sticker or a 2 cars team!

[Prisoner Monkeys]

That's just a guess, mind you. They haven't updated www.facebook.com/GoFastWRT (their Facebook page since April to give an update on Wilson's condition and to say that Solberg missed the Rally of Mexico because of a contractual issue. The www.facebook.com/gofastsports (parent company's page is a lot more active, with lots of boobs, bike and, well, blow-hards. They appear to be trying to set themselves up as a rival to Red Bull by doing evenything Red Bull does and hoping it works.

The most-recent article I can find about the team is this (http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2012/02/25/wrc-news/reports-henning-solberg-will-not-go-fast-in-mexico/), which simply states that Solberg is unlikely to appear in Mexico, and that Ricardo Trivino would drive his car (instead of Wilson's, as he was sceduled to). And although Trivino did drive in the rally, the entry list (http://www.rallymexico.com/files/noticeboard/EntryListMx12.pdf) officially lists him as driving for M-Sport.

Exactly what happened to Go Fast WRT remains a mystery. They simply stopped. They were a last-minute thrown-together entry for Monte Carlo, so I'd say that their sponsors simply realised that it was much more expensive than they were anticipating, and results were much harder to come by than expected. But I find it doubly strange that we have seen neither hide nor hair of Solberg or Wilson. Even if the team collapsed, they are remarkably well-connected within the sport. Malcolm Wilson runs M-Sport, and M-Sport fielded entries for Delecour in Monte Carlo, Solowow in Sweden, Trivino in Mexico (as a non-manufacturer entry) and Kuipers in Portugal, so I half-expected Matthew Wilson to run in their third car once his ankle healed. As for Solberg, he could have made it as an Atkinson-style journeyman, filling in for other drivers as needed. But both he and Wilson have been very, very quiet. I can only imagine that Go Fast is planning a serious bid for 2013 (pending support from Ford), and so are working with the team on their entry, because the alternative is that they signed a contract that prevents them from racing for anyone else in 2012, even if the team were to collapse (which seems silly).

EDIT: Just found this (http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/182865/1/wilson_jr_to_return_for_wales_rally_gb.html), which says Wilson will be back with M-Sport for Rally GB.

DOULBLE EDIT: I've also found this picture (http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/mGNeYV82bUJ/FIA+World+Rally+Championship+Finland+Shakedown/nVDkO6ICbnb/Ott+Tanak) of Ott Tanak in Finland. After Go Fast stopped full sponsorship of their team, Tanak's car carried a (much) smaller Go Fast logo. In Finland, he appeared with an FIA Action for Raod Safety decal. It appears Go Fast no longer have any presence in the category.

[eib1]

DOULBLE EDIT: I've also found this picture (http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/mGNeYV82bUJ/FIA+World+Rally+Championship+Finland+Shakedown/nVDkO6ICbnb/Ott+Tanak) of Ott Tanak in Finland. After Go Fast stopped full sponsorship of their team, Tanak's car carried a (much) smaller Go Fast logo. In Finland, he appeared with an FIA Action for Raod Safety decal. It appears Go Fast no longer have any presence in the category.

Tänak carried Go Fast logo only in Sweden.

[dimviii]

Nasser Al-Attiyah denies (better) the redemption of Citroën Racing in Qatar

http://rallye.automoto365.com/templates/alltemplates/news/alllanguage/news_detail_title_bg.gif






In the excitement of the Olympic Games, the first reaction of Nasser Al-Attiyah face rumors of takeover by Citroen Racing Qatar had been taken literally by the world of WRC. While he was enthusiastic (http://rallye.automoto365.com/news/?lang=fr&theme=default&team_id=34&month=8&season_year=2012&mode=NewsDetails&id=4744)at the time that the team can become the world champion "a bit like the PSG" , the driver now shows more balanced. Clearer, too.

"No, for the moment we do not believe , we do to promote Qatar on my side. [This acquisition] was not our project, " he says in an interview with iRally, echoing the official denial of Yves Matton (http://rallye.automoto365.com/news/?lang=fr&theme=default&team_id=34&month=8&season_year=2012&mode=NewsDetails&id=4740) . "Qatar supports me and we try to do many things in motorsport to promote Qatar. We also try to save the young crazy things [that can happen] in the street, we try to support them, to spend our energy on something [to help] our country. "

"We are together, we have a good relationship with Citroën, then why not work well over the long term? " added the Qatari rider engaged driving a Citroën DS3 private prepared by Technology, with a program that allows him to play the majority of the world championship rallies.

's first love Nasser Al-Attiyah is, however, on d other latitudes and announced he will leave the onslaught of Qatar early next year. "I plan to do the Dakar and hopefully play again the Olympic Games in Rio [in 2016], " he says. And regardless of whether the next edition of the rally he won in 2011 forced him to miss the Rallye Monte-Carlo : "I prefer to do the Dakar. The weather is much better on the Dakar as the Monte Carlo, Monte Carlo because that it will be very cold! " More seriously he adds: "I have a project for next year which begins with the Dakar start and I think my WRC season in Sweden. '

Nasser Al-Attiyah nie (mieux) le rachat de Citroën Racing par le Qatar | Rally | Automoto365.com - actualité photos - résultats classements officiels - interviews exclusives - forum (http://rallye.automoto365.com/news/?lang=fr&theme=default&team_id=186&month=8&season_year=2012&mode=NewsDetails&id=4834&news_type_id=1)

[dimviii]

Yvan Muller will start the Rally of France driving a Mini John Cooper Works WRC prepared by Prodrive. The world champion of tourism has already participated in two previous editions in Alsace, will team up with Dani Sordo and seeks a place in the Top 10

AUTOhebdo.fr | Yvan Muller sur une Mini Prodrive ! (http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/breve-26-1-29271/230812-yvan-muller-sur-une-mini-prodrive-%3Cspan%20class=)

[AndyRAC]

That's a great translation - the World Champion of Tourism...... ;)

[dimviii]

That's a great translation - the World Champion of Tourism...... ;)

lol :D

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Nasser Al-Attiyah denies (better) the redemption of Citroën Racing in Qatar

http://rallye.automoto365.com/templates/alltemplates/news/alllanguage/news_detail_title_bg.gif






In the excitement of the Olympic Games, the first reaction of Nasser Al-Attiyah face rumors of takeover by Citroen Racing Qatar had been taken literally by the world of WRC. While he was enthusiastic (http://rallye.automoto365.com/news/?lang=fr&theme=default&team_id=34&month=8&season_year=2012&mode=NewsDetails&id=4744)at the time that the team can become the world champion "a bit like the PSG" , the driver now shows more balanced. Clearer, too.

"No, for the moment we do not believe , we do to promote Qatar on my side. [This acquisition] was not our project, " he says in an interview with iRally, echoing the official denial of Yves Matton (http://rallye.automoto365.com/news/?lang=fr&theme=default&team_id=34&month=8&season_year=2012&mode=NewsDetails&id=4740) . "Qatar supports me and we try to do many things in motorsport to promote Qatar. We also try to save the young crazy things [that can happen] in the street, we try to support them, to spend our energy on something [to help] our country. "

"We are together, we have a good relationship with Citroën, then why not work well over the long term? " added the Qatari rider engaged driving a Citroën DS3 private prepared by Technology, with a program that allows him to play the majority of the world championship rallies.

's first love Nasser Al-Attiyah is, however, on d other latitudes and announced he will leave the onslaught of Qatar early next year. "I plan to do the Dakar and hopefully play again the Olympic Games in Rio [in 2016], " he says. And regardless of whether the next edition of the rally he won in 2011 forced him to miss the Rallye Monte-Carlo : "I prefer to do the Dakar. The weather is much better on the Dakar as the Monte Carlo, Monte Carlo because that it will be very cold! " More seriously he adds: "I have a project for next year which begins with the Dakar start and I think my WRC season in Sweden. '

Nasser Al-Attiyah nie (mieux) le rachat de Citroën Racing par le Qatar | Rally | Automoto365.com - actualité photos - résultats classements officiels - interviews exclusives - forum (http://rallye.automoto365.com/news/?lang=fr&theme=default&team_id=186&month=8&season_year=2012&mode=NewsDetails&id=4834&news_type_id=1)







I'm guessing a lot was lost in translation there - in parts, it's almost meaningless. But I'm guessing that the rumours al-Attiyah could buy the Citroen WRT are untrue; rather, it looks like Qatar could replace Red Bull as sponsor of the team.

[TyPat107]

That's a great translation - the World Champion of Tourism...... ;)
Is NOT moonlighting as a translator now? ;)

[AMSS]

Was VW suppose to announce next years driver lineup this weekend or was that just a ruomour?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Was VW suppose to announce next years driver lineup this weekend or was that just a ruomour?
If they are, they're still got today, tomorrow and Sunday to announce it.

I don't know why people seem to think that if an announcement isn't made on the very first day, it's not going to happen at all.

[AMSS]

If they are, they're still got today, tomorrow and Sunday to announce it.

I don't know why people seem to think that if an announcement isn't made on the very first day, it's not going to happen at all.

I`m sorry, must be a language barrier but from where did you get the picture I meant they should have done it already? I said THIS weekend, and the weekend
hasn`t even officially started yet( weekend is officially from friday 18.00-Sunday 06.00).

Anyhow announcements like these are almost always done after the rally to give the drivers and teams some peace to run the actual rally! All I asked is if it is official that they will announce it this weekend!

[Red bull]

FIA not expected to intervene in Armindo Araujo legal action - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101938)

[GigiGalliNo1]

WHAT A F-ing JOKE

edit* But nice to see my photo on Autosport with the story :p

[Prisoner Monkeys]

WHAT A F-ing JOKE
The FIA can only prosecute a team within the letter of their own regulations. Araujo does not have a case under those regulations because the team followed the correct procedures in removing him. Their reasons for removing him are their own business; the FIA cannot start interfering with internal team politics.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Prisoner Monkeys - yes I agree. Ok I get this... but not the usage of the Team Name. It belongs to AA and should not be used.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Araujo can still own the team name, even if he is not racing for them.

[GigiGalliNo1]

But he has not given them permission to USE the name! He wants it OFF the team.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

He gave them permission to use it when he formed the team. For him to demand that they stop using it now just because he lost his drive is akin to throwing his toys out of the pram. Especially since he needed Mini's permission to use "Mini" in the team name in the first place.

Araujo appears to be trying to force his way back into the team by way of his ownership of the team name. Changing a team name mid-season is a complicated and costly process, and Araujo is probably trying to use the threat of losing manufacturer status to manhandle his way back in. All Mini has to do is buy the trademark from him, and he's got nothing. A trademark won't sell for so much that Araujo could establish his own team again.

[JAM]

All Mini has to do is buy the trademark from him, and he's got nothing. A trademark won't sell for so much that Araujo could establish his own team again.

Mini Portugal supports Armindo Araújo, not Motorsport Italy.

Don't forget that the name of the team is WRC Team Mini Portugal.

This is not a british or german name, is a portuguese company.

In fact FIA seems useless as a sport authority, as they charge a license but at the end can't control the use of it.

I tell you why FIA don't do nothing: Because this Mini saga was a big mess to FIA, and if the team is not allowed to start the mess would be worse and bigger. So, they close their eyes.

The solution to Armindo? To go to the civil court, because the sport court is useless.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

In fact FIA seems useless as a sport authority, as they charge a license but at the end can't control the use of it.

I tell you why FIA don't do nothing: Because this Mini saga was a big mess to FIA, and if the team is not allowed to start the mess would be worse and bigger. So, they close their eyes.
No, they don't do anything because they can't do anything. There is nothing in the FIA charter that gives them any power to control who uses a certain name, and when. In order to be accepted for use by a team, a name must a) be an actual word (when Formula 1 team HRT joined the grid, they wanted to be known as "Hispania Racing Team", but the FIA did not recognise "Hispania" as a word), b) not be similar to or the same as a name used by an existing team, and c) not be offensive or slanderous in any way.

The FIA cannot intervene on Araujo's behalf, because they do not have the power to. They can only act based on their own rules and regulations, and if they try to step outside those - as they did when they gave Flavio Briatore a life ban from Formula 1 - it can get very, very messy.

[makinen_fan]

b) not be similar to or the same as a name used by an existing team

that's why we had two Lotus Renault teams last year?? FIA do the blind eyes when they want to, and do exaggerated stuff when they want to. no transparency at all with their decisions, especially this year

[JAM]

The FIA cannot intervene on Araujo's behalf, because they do not have the power to. They can only act based on their own rules and regulations, and if they try to step outside those - as they did when they gave Flavio Briatore a life ban from Formula 1 - it can get very, very messy.

Is FIA who issues the licences and charges for them. So is FIA responsability to assure that the use of them is legal. If the owner of a licence informs FIA that don't authorize that someone uses it, then FIA must no accept that licence on a santioned event.

It seems that FIA is there only to receive the money for the licences...

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Is FIA who issues the licences and charges for them. So is FIA responsability to assure that the use of them is legal. If the owner of a licence informs FIA that don't authorize that someone uses it, then FIA must no accept that licence on a santioned event.
Araujo's case is one for the courts to decide, given that he is claiming an unfair dismissal. The FIA cannot simply revoke the team's licence on Araujo's say-so simply because he was dropped by the team. If a civilian court rules that Araujo has a case, then the FIA can act. Ever since the Briatore case, when Briatore challenge the FIA's right to ban him for life and won, the FIA has deferred to courts first. They won't act without a judgement, especially since they only have Araujo's word for it that he was unfairly dismissed from the team.

[JAM]

They won't act without a judgement, especially since they only have Araujo's word for it that he was unfairly dismissed from the team.

You must be jocking... then FIA don't have the registy of the owner of the licence?!?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

What do you think would happen if the FIA terminated the racing licence based solely on Araujo's word that he was unfairly dismissed?

Motorsport Italia would file a counter-claim against the FIA, alleging that the FIA failed to do due diligence.

You can't really separate the two issues here, since they are mutually inclusive. Araujo claims that he was unfairly dismissed by the team, and now he wants them to stop using the name he registered. But if he was not dismissed by the team, they would continue to use the name he registered. You cannot separate one from the other. Therefore, the FIA must wait for the outcome of any legal proceedings in a civilian court before taing any action. For them to act early would be presumptuous. Especially now, since if they suspended the team's licence, the team would not be able to compete - which I suspect might be Araujo's objective: they fire him, so he does whatever he can to stop them from competing.

The FIA only has Araujo's word that he was unfairly dismissed by the team. He has to be able to prove it before anyone can do anything about it. For example, he claims that the team changed the time and location of testing days at the last minute, and that they did so to make him late and give them a ready-made excuse to fire him. But what if the team got to the location of the test, found that the roads were closed or being used or flooded, and were forced to change the location? They didn't know the roads were unuseable until the last minute, so ow can Araujo claim that they were acting unfairly?

[Plan9]

I don't think Armindo will be getting back with Mini or Motorsport Italia after all this bull****. Its got to public and all the bad blood could make any future business relationship way to awkward. Why couldn't they replace Nobre instead? (I am only guessing but I assume he is paying way more for his green pig than Armindo did for the black one).

[JAM]

What do you think would happen if the FIA terminated the racing licence based solely on Araujo's word that he was unfairly dismissed?


This is not based on Armindo's word, this is based on the registries.

Legally Armindo is the owner, it is registered on FIA documents. Only the owner can authorize or not a licence to be used.

What's you doubt abou it? Why do you insist that is only a word of Armindo? Obviously this is not a question of word, is a question of legal property of something.

Wich is the part that you didn't understood?

[JAM]

I don't think Armindo will be getting back with Mini or Motorsport Italia after all this bull****. Its got to public and all the bad blood could make any future business relationship way to awkward. Why couldn't they replace Nobre instead? (I am only guessing but I assume he is paying way more for his green pig than Armindo did for the black one).

Nobre is paying his car. Mini is paying the most part of Armindo's car, and now Atkinson's car.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

This is not based on Armindo's word, this is based on the registries.

Legally Armindo is the owner, it is registered on FIA documents. Only the owner can authorize or not a licence to be used.
I don't doubt that the team name was registered and owned by Araujo.

What I am questioning is Araujo's motives in all of this. He was removed by the team. He claims that they did this unfairly. We only have his word that they did it unfairly. He isn't trying to get control of the name back. He's trying to force his way back into the team. He's trying to use the threat of legal action to make the team drop Atkinson and reinstate him. And that's why the FIA won't act. If they suspend the team's licence, they won't be able to compete until they file for a new licence, which then has to go through the accreditation procedure. They would likely lose their manufacturer status in the process, and they may not be able to compete in Wales given the time the procedure will take. However, if that were to happen, then you can bet that Araujo will tell the team that if they reinstate him, they will be entitled to use the name, their licence will be returned, and they will be able to continue rallying with a minimum of fuss.


What's you doubt abou it? Why do you insist that is only a word of Armindo? Obviously this is not a question of word, is a question of legal property of something.

Wich is the part that you didn't understood?
We only have Araujo's claim that he was unfairly dismissed from the team. That dismissal is what led to him challenging the team's right to use the name. If he was not dismissed, he would not be challenging it. But we have no evidence that Araujo was unfairly dismissed in the first place, which is why I am questioning his motives in challenging the use of the name. It's not like Araujo is moving to another team and is asking Motorsport Italia to stop using the Mini Portugal name because he is no longer associated with them. He is trying to get back into the team and is using the name as leverage to do it.

[FAlonso]

I find it amazing how you constantly keep using the words "claim", "his word"; "his motives"; etc.

I think it is clear for all to see that AA was f@cked with all the letters in this case and he was even kind enough to share some of the HARD-EVIDENCE to the worldwide audience - (the "Your SICK email", for ex.).

AA can have a lot of faults but being stupid is surely not one of them. There would be no legal action issued if he wasn´t pretty assured of his case.

Moreover, it's astonishing your CLAIM the he wants to go back to the Motorsport Italia team. I can only laugh at that. I'm very sure he would sooner take up fishing for the rest of his life before setting foot in any car remotely linked to those people.

This is not only a question of naming rights and licenses et all. It's a question of principle, a question of deceiving, a question of manipulation and a question of truthfulness.

The reason why MSI existis his because of Armindo and his sponsors. The reason why Paulo Nobre signed for MSI and brought his money along was because of the relationship he forged with Armindo last year. Paulo himself stated that on the Palmeirinha Rally Facebook page.

As I said before this is not like being fired from Citroen or Ford.



I don't doubt that the team name was registered and owned by Araujo.

What I am questioning is Araujo's motives in all of this. He was removed by the team. He claims that they did this unfairly. We only have his word that they did it unfairly. He isn't trying to get control of the name back. He's trying to force his way back into the team. He's trying to use the threat of legal action to make the team drop Atkinson and reinstate him. And that's why the FIA won't act. If they suspend the team's licence, they won't be able to compete until they file for a new licence, which then has to go through the accreditation procedure. They would likely lose their manufacturer status in the process, and they may not be able to compete in Wales given the time the procedure will take. However, if that were to happen, then you can bet that Araujo will tell the team that if they reinstate him, they will be entitled to use the name, their licence will be returned, and they will be able to continue rallying with a minimum of fuss.


We only have Araujo's claim that he was unfairly dismissed from the team. That dismissal is what led to him challenging the team's right to use the name. If he was not dismissed, he would not be challenging it. But we have no evidence that Araujo was unfairly dismissed in the first place, which is why I am questioning his motives in challenging the use of the name. It's not like Araujo is moving to another team and is asking Motorsport Italia to stop using the Mini Portugal name because he is no longer associated with them. He is trying to get back into the team and is using the name as leverage to do it.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

It's a question of principle, a question of deceiving, a question of manipulation and a question of truthfulness.
Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but I have found that people have a remarkable tendency to remember themselves as the victims.

If Motorsport Italia manipulated and decieved Araujo, then I find it equally plausible that Araujo is manipulated and deceiving the public.

[Red bull]

i think Attko has proved to the rally fraternity that after all it was not a crap MINI but a slow driver{Araujo} was driving the car.

[skarderud]

i think Attko has proved to the rally fraternity that after all it was not a crap MINI but a slow driver{Araujo} was driving the car.

isn't atko driving 01B? a car they never let araujo drive....
its lots of things to put the finger on in this story, but araujo has nothing to lose anymore. i understand his move, MSI hasen't done this in a nice way.

[Francis44]

i think Attko has proved to the rally fraternity that after all it was not a crap MINI but a slow driver{Araujo} was driving the car.

Sorry but this is not true. Armindo Germany 2011 8th overall + 9.29.8 (first day broken wheel) / Atkinson Germany 2012 5th overall +8:16.8 with two stages to go.

Where's the difference?

[Red bull]

Sorry but this is not true. Armindo Germany 2011 8th overall + 9.29.8 (first day broken wheel) / Atkinson Germany 2012 5th overall +8:16.8 with two stages to go.

Where's the difference?
Never been in the top five since driving a MINI WRC :s mokin:

[Francis44]

Never been in the top five since driving a MINI WRC :s mokin:

I'll give you that, but totally different circumstances (big number of crashes this year).

[JAM]

I don't doubt that the team name was registered and owned by Araujo.


Then the rest of your words are useless.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Then the rest of your words are useless.
Stop trying to separate the team name issue from the unfair dismissal issue. As I have demonstrated, they are inherently interlinked. Araujo is only challenging the team's right to use that name because the fired him. I believe he is trying to use it as leverage against them to force his way back into the team, because the threat of having their licence suspended and taking the time to file for a new one will seriously limit their ability to compete.

Why do you so adamantly and emphatically believe that Araujo is right? You have completely ignored everything but his claim to the team name, and while it may be a perfectly-valid claim, I have repeatedly demonstrated that there are factors - such as his accusation of unfair dismissal - that have the potential to completely change the reasons for why this is happening.

[GigiGalliNo1]

So without the retirements and drops this weekend, and Atko came 7-8-9-10th in the end, what would people be saying??

"Atkinson is faster then AA but he's better? It's the car" yet he would have done AA's normal end of rally position?

[N.O.T]

None will miss the tourist from Portugal.... apart from his yes men.

[Datto1600]

None will miss the tourist from Portugal.... apart from his yes men.

My God, I agree with N.O.T!!!!!! I must be going crazy??? :)

[jbmarcus21]

#WRC Full Wrc Season 2012 standings [Drivers, Manufacturers, Scratchs, Power Stage] Classements Saison Wrc 2012 (http://bit.ly/x3IKyP)

[Bartek]

Rumours about Kubica had test with Ford in France in Circuit des Ecuyers

[Prisoner Monkeys]

That's interesting. It's becoming increasingly obvious that Kubica won't be returning to Formula 1. He simply doesn't have the full range of movements in his arm to handle a Formula 1 car ... but maybe he can still handle a rally car.

[tolis]

MERC Round 4, Rally of Lebanon Entry list announced: http://www.rallyoflebanon.com/pdf/ROL-entry-list-2012.pdf
Al Attiyah is driving a Citroen. I suppose it'll be the debut of the Citroen DS3 RRC...

[kober]

#WRC Full Wrc Season 2012 standings [Drivers, Manufacturers, Scratchs, Power Stage] Classements Saison Wrc 2012 (http://bit.ly/x3IKyP)Interestingly, Citroen WRT and Ford WRT are almost tied on the number of SS wins (79 v. 78), but the former have scored almost twice as many points as the latter (320 v. 197). It would be great, if the stats on number of retirements (or +5 mins stages, as the part of Rally2) were available as well.

[kober]

That's interesting. It's becoming increasingly obvious that Kubica won't be returning to Formula 1. He simply doesn't have the full range of movements in his arm to handle a Formula 1 car ... but maybe he can still handle a rally car.I'm pretty sure that he has the potential to achieve more in WRC than Raikkonen did.

[N.O.T]

That's interesting. It's becoming increasingly obvious that Kubica won't be returning to Formula 1. He simply doesn't have the full range of movements in his arm to handle a Formula 1 car ... but maybe he can still handle a rally car.

unfortunately his career at any kind of top level motorsport is over... but he is more than welcome to join the best motorsport in the world.

[Red bull]

unfortunately his career at any kind of top level motorsport is over... but he is more than welcome to join the best motorsport in the world.
Test Robert Kubica - Ford Fiesta WRC 2012 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R59LZlQvTzg&feature=youtu.be)

[kober]

Test Robert Kubica - Ford Fiesta WRC 2012 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R59LZlQvTzg&feature=youtu.be)Was this Kubica's the very first test in a wrc?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I'm pretty sure that he has the potential to achieve more in WRC than Raikkonen did.
I'm hearing stupid rumours that he will step straight into the Ford WRT car, and Latvala will go to Volkswagen. But even if Latvala does go to VW, I find it incredibly unlikely that Kubica would join Ford WRT. I'd say Ford would be more likely to take Ostberg or Tanak, leaving an Adapta or M-Sport drive free for Kubica.

[AP-Racing]

Test Robert Kubica - Ford Fiesta WRC 2012 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R59LZlQvTzg&feature=youtu.be)

It's fake, because this is pre-Germany Ford tests on Baumholder

[Red bull]

It's fake, because this is pre-Germany Ford tests on Baumholder
Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally (https://twitter.com/voiceofrally)
My understanding is that Robert Kubica tested the Fiesta WRC a few months ago on a Tarmac circuit with JML and PS. Told he was mighty quick!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Colin Clark @voiceofrally wrote

"I don't think it's anything to do with a future drive, Kubica has friends in Ford and he wanted to have a drive"

Plus he drove with one hand! For steering and gear change! Just some fun guys..