[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[Rallyper]

If Citroen leaves this year it will be a bad taste after that, because they didn´t dare to challenge VW in 2013.

That´s why I think they´ll stay for at least next year. Maybe in 2014 it will be a swap to Peugeot in PSA group.

[stefanvv]

They only won Le Mans once in 2009, but won virtually every other race, beating Audi convincingly. They were favourites to win this years WEC...before the pull out.

Perhaps Citroen predict the same with VW in WRC, they have to win, but won't. But I think this would be shame if they leave, would like to see proper fight between these teams.

[stefanvv]

Loeb said some time ago that he would like to do some rally's that he likes even if he retires, like Monte Carlo or France. I think that's not a problem for him since he can easily put together a number of sponsors, or even sponsor himself (altough very unlikely).

If Citroen jumps ship, there's a handfull of drivers who suddently see themselves in problems. Hirvonnen, Neuville will have to start too look for something else, since I dont think Peugeot will be back that soon.

Loeb could (and will) do some rallies in the future like most of retired rally drivers do - just for fun. But I doub't he would agree on "limited program" like Sordo is this year for example. If he would do Rallies next year, that would be when he decides and what he likes. Looks like we have to sorry for Hirvonen though, he really hoped Citroen is his future probably.

[Arganil]

Perhaps Citroen predict the same with VW in WRC, they have to win, but won't.

Perhaps it has nothing to do with competitors. Citroen came to WRC from zero and beet all other manus, some of them with large experience. PSA finance situation is terrible and when there's a risk of closing factories and send home 5 or 10 thousand workers there's obviously an obligation to put sport programmes in perspective. Let's hope for the best.

[stefanvv]

Perhaps it has nothing to do with competitors. Citroen came to WRC from zero and beet all other manus, some of them with large experience. PSA finance situation is terrible and when there's a risk of closing factories and send home 5 or 10 thousand workers there's obviously an obligation to put sport programmes in perspective. Let's hope for the best.

Well, that is probably just one more reason to pull out in tough times. May be PSA is in big crisis, I don't know, but if this is true, then it is normal to concentrate on more critical parts of the business and cut some (big) expenses.

[JAM]

absolutely no doubt loeb will retire before VW start its first rally

As usually these words were attacked by the usual fanatic Loeb forum members. Then the british press show the naked true about 2013 and suddenly the Loeb kids are quiet.

And voilá! One more time Loeb don't have to handle true competition, Citroen retires. There's always one way to avoid things :D

[Bartolbia84]

Angrisani-Polliccino at the start of the Rally Italia-Sardegna e RACC Catalunya, on a Mitsubishi Lancer EVO X by Vomero Racing

[igi]

As usually these words were attacked by the usual fanatic Loeb forum members. Then the british press show the naked true about 2013 and suddenly the Loeb kids are quiet.

And voilá! One more time Loeb don't have to handle true competition, Citroen retires. There's always one way to avoid things :D

So you are really suggesting the reason for Citroen retiring is Loeb doesn't have to face Ogier? You can't be serious...
Maybe you are saying this just to annoy NOT :D

[MJW]

BBC News - Peugeot Citroen plans 8,000 job cuts (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18808662)
Business news re PSA economic situation.

[A FONDO]

So you are really suggesting the reason for Citroen retiring is Loeb doesn't have to face Ogier? You can't be serious...
PSA are in recession from several years, they've made several other cuts. They kept participating in WRC only because the win was certain.

[Red bull]

WRC Polo set for Rally d'Italia debut - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101140?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[Red bull]

wrc polo set for rally d'italia debut - wrc news - autosport.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101140?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
finally it will happen!!!!!!

[N.O.T]

well if is not a competitive debut it really doesn't mean much... it is ok we are going to see the car in action though.

As for the CItroen-Loeb blah blah blah we must wait and see if those british rumours are true.

[JAM]

PSA are in recession from several years, they've made several other cuts. They kept participating in WRC only because the win was certain.

Totally correct

[A FONDO]

Yes its the primary one when the customers are short of money and loans come with enomous interests.

[Rallyper]

Yes its the primary one when the customers are short of money and loans come with enomous interests.

If you dont invest in bad times, you have nothing when good times coming back. PSA should consider how important marketing is even in bad times. Rallying is one way of marketing. Not the cheapest, but gives the brand a status which shouldnt be underestimated.

[stefanvv]

WRC Polo set for Rally d'Italia debut - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101140?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Great! Though not competitive participation we will see it among other cars in a real race and I guess Sardinia would be great durability test ground.

[MJW]

If you dont invest in bad times, you have nothing when good times coming back. PSA should consider how important marketing is even in bad times. Rallying is one way of marketing. Not the cheapest, but gives the brand a status which shouldnt be underestimated.

That is exactly what happened in 1982/3 when they gave the go ahead for the 205T16 project.

[A FONDO]

If you dont invest in bad times, you have nothing when good times coming back. PSA should consider how important marketing is even in bad times. Rallying is one way of marketing. Not the cheapest, but gives the brand a status which shouldnt be underestimated.

Do you know what is the financial situation in PSA or you just talk common theories? What you say is valid only for dinosaurs like VW, GM etc which have plenty of money in reserve despite the global crysis.

[stefanvv]

If you dont invest in bad times, you have nothing when good times coming back. PSA should consider how important marketing is even in bad times. Rallying is one way of marketing. Not the cheapest, but gives the brand a status which shouldnt be underestimated.

That didn't worked for them I guess. With all their titles in WRC still the situation is bad.

[AndyRAC]

For all their success, do Citroen actually use it to sell cars? The adverts for the DS3 are dancing cars......where is Loeb? Where is the WRC success shown?

[Allyc85]

Its the same with Skoda and the IRC. You see adverts in the specialised press but in the TV ads for the Fabia there is nothing about all the success they have had in the IRC.

[Allyc85]

Just read on British Rally Forum that Craig Breen will be driving on this weekends Nicky Grist Stages and will be co-driven by Dai Roberts, brother of Gareth, to whom the event is dedicated :)

[EightGear]

For all their success, do Citroen actually use it to sell cars? The adverts for the DS3 are dancing cars......where is Loeb? Where is the WRC success shown?

Just a few months ago there was a TV commercial about the DS3 with Loeb in it. A policeman on a motorbike was following him when suddenly Seb stopped and asked:
Did I do anything wrong? And the policeman answered: PAS ENCORE. :D

[stefanvv]

Just a few months ago there was a TV commercial about the DS3 with Loeb in it. A policeman on a motorbike was following him when suddenly Seb stopped and asked:
Did I do anything wrong? And the policeman answered: PAS ENCORE. :D

:D :D. Has the policeman actually seen Finnish driver? :D

[N.O.T]

Its the same with Skoda and the IRC. You see adverts in the specialised press but in the TV ads for the Fabia there is nothing about all the success they have had in the IRC.

The new Skoda Fabia RS - From IRC rally car to road car - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ZBWLFEKR0)

i do not know about the uk but this TV ad was in Greek tv a while ago.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Very bad humour and dangerous! :D

[EightGear]

This one I meant:

Citroën DS3 Racing TV-commercial met rallycoureur Sébastian Loeb - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLMFPngmLYE)

And here some kind of 'uncut' version which probably only aired in France:

Publicité Citroën DS3 Racing avec Sébastien Loeb. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbhM4AorqMU)

[stefanvv]

This one I meant:

Citroën DS3 Racing TV-commercial met rallycoureur Sébastian Loeb - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLMFPngmLYE)

And here some kind of 'uncut' version which probably only aired in France:

Publicité Citroën DS3 Racing avec Sébastien Loeb. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbhM4AorqMU)

Well, that explains everything. No one should be rally driver on the streets :rolleyes:

[JAM]

If you dont invest in bad times, you have nothing when good times coming back. PSA should consider how important marketing is even in bad times. Rallying is one way of marketing. Not the cheapest, but gives the brand a status which shouldnt be underestimated.

There are a lot of good things to invest instead WRC, and cheaper. WRC is expensive and has a dramatic lack of visibility.

[rallyfiend]

There are a lot of good things to invest instead WRC, and cheaper. WRC is expensive and has a dramatic lack of visibility.

In motorsport?

Like what?

[Jordib]

The new Skoda Fabia RS - From IRC rally car to road car - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ZBWLFEKR0)

i do not know about the uk but this TV ad was in Greek tv a while ago.

And also in Spain, some days ago.

[N.O.T]

A lot of people are in pain for many years now...

I like it !!!

It would be nice if Citroen Loeb stay one more year and it is quite likely despite the propaganda kitties mewing all the time...

Some people seem to prefer slow motion rallying like in the 80s where every tourist driver could win... it is nice everything evolves and people that stay behind are in agony feeding their pain only with hate towards succefull people.

Continue crying, soon enough your tears will be enough to bathe in them.

[stefanvv]

A lot of people are in pain for many years now...

I like it !!!

It would be nice if Citroen Loeb stay one more year and it is quite likely despite the propaganda kitties mewing all the time...

Some people seem to prefer slow motion rallying like in the 80s where every tourist driver could win... it is nice everything evolves and people that stay behind are in agony feeding their pain only with hate towards succefull people.

Continue crying, soon enough your tears will be enough to bathe in them.

It would be really nice if Citroen and Loeb stay one more year. Because frankly this year I'm bored to see them winning all the time without any "real" competition.

[N.O.T]

It would be really nice if Citroen and Loeb stay one more year. Because frankly this year I'm bored to see them winning all the time.

You believe that VW will be ready to win from the start in their first full season ?? has something like this happened before ??

I of course wish they can have a car ready to win... but i doubt it... maybe they can win events but the championship i think is hard... we are talking about a team with a huge amount of money but their rally experice is ZERO. If they manage it it will be amazing.

And then all the little doggys with flappy ears will start say Loeb is a coward becasue he doesn't stay until VW are competitive enough...

typical masters of nothingness.

[Rallyper]

You believe that VW will be ready to win from the start in their first full season ?? has something like this happened before ??

I of course wish they can have a car ready to win... but i doubt it... maybe they can win events but the championship i think is hard... we are talking about a team with a huge amount of money but their rally experice is ZERO. If they manage it it will be amazing.

And then all the little doggys with flappy ears will start say Loeb is a coward becasue he doesn't stay until VW are competitive enough...

typical masters of nothingness.

I dont agree. Its nothing new when a "new" manu starts winning the first season. And VW is not exactly even new in the game.

For sure yes, as mentioned they have a lot of money, but that is just what´s needed to make sucess. Maybe they don´t win the whole championship but very well single events. And that is enough for us freaks to be happy. (My personal opinion is that they can be champions the first year, with or without Citroen)

Lets wait and see...

[stefanvv]

You believe that VW will be ready to win from the start in their first full season ?? has something like this happened before ??

I of course wish they can have a car ready to win... but i doubt it... maybe they can win events but the championship i think is hard... we are talking about a team with a huge amount of money but their rally experice is ZERO. If they manage it it will be amazing.

And then all the little doggys with flappy ears will start say Loeb is a coward becasue he doesn't stay until VW are competitive enough...

typical masters of nothingness.

Well, it is not like inventing the Quattro technology, but did happen before - AUDI in '82.

Is their car ready to win? I don't know, probably no one know just now, but tests are promising in car's strength, which is what Ford were vulnerable this year. How would be with the speed? That is the question which will be answered next year.

VW Rally experience? Not recently, but there is some in the past with Golf. But, with Carlos Sainz helping them build their car and recruiting Ogier one year earlier, I guess they will be just fine with this.

[Arganil]

It may be a coincidence, but VW wrc entry trajectory is very similar to the one lived by Citroen.

Both based their teams on rally-raid dominant structures. Both acclimatize their teams to wrc using low level cars (Cit used saxos). Both spent over one year testing their wrc cars (Citroen have done it in a experimental category on french champioship).

Main difference: Citroen first wrc season (2000) wasn't a complete attempt. They entered only some selected events using B level drivers (Bugalski, Radstrom, Puras and newcommer...Loeb). Results were promissing but only a few podiums achieved.

Serious results only came in third year, with more experienced Loeb and world champions McRae and Sainz joining the team, when Citroen dominate the series becoming WRC manu champ and Loeb almost win his first driver title.

Considering that 2013 VW wrc entry will be a full scale participation (with top levels drivers) and competition will came from only one or two manus (not 5 or 6 like in the early's 2000), we can expect that VW results curve will raise much faster...

[MJW]

You believe that VW will be ready to win from the start in their first full season ?? has something like this happened before ??

I of course wish they can have a car ready to win... but i doubt it... maybe they can win events but the championship i think is hard. Knowing some of the names that VW have recruited from existing teams they have aquired quite an impressive talent pool, this includes rally managers and co-ordinators, engineers, technicians, and truckies. Sure this is no guarantee of success.

[AMSS]

Knowing some of the names that VW have recruited from existing teams they have aquired quite an impressive talent pool, this includes rally managers and co-ordinators, engineers, technicians, and truckies. Sure this is no guarantee of success.

An interesting fact was stated in Finland after VW :s test, they used the same road as Ctroen last year but weren`t yet able to get as fast a time as with Citroen, of course the conditions can have a big input, but if not at same speed as Citroen last year than there`s still some way to go as Citroen probably is getting faster all the time as well.
Also the engineers at VW are hoping for more feedback from the nr.1 driver at VW...

[A FONDO]

A lot of people are in pain for many years now...

I like it !!!

It would be nice if Citroen Loeb stay one more year and it is quite likely despite the propaganda kitties mewing all the time...

Some people seem to prefer slow motion rallying like in the 80s where every tourist driver could win... it is nice everything evolves and people that stay behind are in agony feeding their pain only with hate towards succefull people.

Continue crying, soon enough your tears will be enough to bathe in them.

You really must visit a doctor as soon as possible. Unless you are an undercover alien.

[stefanvv]

An interesting fact was stated in Finland after VW :s test, they used the same road as Ctroen last year but weren`t yet able to get as fast a time as with Citroen, of course the conditions can have a big input, but if not at same speed as Citroen last year than there`s still some way to go as Citroen probably is getting faster all the time as well.
Also the engineers at VW are hoping for more feedback from the nr.1 driver at VW...

That is interesting fact indeed. May be that is normal for a few reasons:
1) It is their first test in Finland, so I guess just tried out how the car is going on this roads without pushing to the limit.
2) May be more important test there would be the suspension itself, rather than speed.

After all as Jost Capito says "it is easier to make slow and strong car faster, than fast and weak car stronger" :s mokin:

[dimviii]

An interesting fact was stated in Finland after VW :s test, they used the same road as Ctroen last year but weren`t yet able to get as fast a time as with Citroen, of course the conditions can have a big input, but if not at same speed as Citroen last year than there`s still some way to go as Citroen probably is getting faster all the time as well.
Also the engineers at VW are hoping for more feedback from the nr.1 driver at VW...

same i understant reading a Ogiers speech at a magazine.They are not near Citroens speed yet.

[AMSS]

That is interesting fact indeed. May be that is normal for a few reasons:
1) It is their first test in Finland, so I guess just tried out how the car is going on this roads without pushing to the limit.
2) May be more important test there would be the suspension itself, rather than speed.

After all as Jost Capito says "it is easier to make slow and strong car faster, than fast and weak car stronger" :s mokin:

I find Capitos saying quit different to what all others have been saying in the past, usually it`s easier to make a fast car strong than a slow and strong car fast. and I`m not meaning that the VW is slow..
Think of it yuorselves, if something brakes you can see where it breakes and make it stronger, but if a car is slow it`s not at all that easy to find out why as several factors can influence that!

[dimviii]

I find Capitos saying quit different to what all others have been saying in the past, usually it`s easier to make a fast car strong than a slow and strong car fast. and I`m not meaning that the VW is slow..
Think of it yuorselves, if something brakes you can see where it breakes and make it stronger, but if a car is slow it`s not at all that easy to find out why as several factors can influence that!

+1
some times is impossible to fix the speed,specially if it is a design mistake at chassis,weight distribution,dimensions etc something that you can t change homologating part/s

[AP-Racing]

Mads Ostberg in hospital after the accident at shakedown before the rally Bohemia

[N.O.T]

has he any injuries ? or was just as precaution ?

[A FONDO]

http://www.almrally.ru/imagelib/Europe/2012/20120708/20120713ostberg-crash02.jpg

[dimviii]

has he any injuries ? or was just as precaution ?

pain at back

edit seems it is serious!! they are going with airplane to Norway
http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=14105

[rallye-vid]

something with his back/backbone .. flying back to norway in an ambulance airplane

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/uploads/pics/news_int_20120713-1.jpg

[dimviii]

madsostbergI don't like hospitals, and especially not to be in one! But, now I'm stuck here inn a hospital in Czech Republic, after crash on shakedown. Not a big crash, but pain in the back is quite big :( hopefully they will fix me soon!

http://instagram.com/p/NBavxgJkiN/

[rallyfiend]

The car looks pretty intact. Let's just hope it's a small muscle tweak or somehing minor.

Mind you, this looks similar to the level of damage to Gronholm's car (before they turned it in to a cabriolet).

[focus206]

Damn, let's hope nothing serious for Mads :(

[SubaruNorway]

He has a slipped disc, they are not sure if they will do Rally Estonia yet.

[dimviii]

He has a slipped disc, they are not sure if they will do Rally Estonia yet.
:(

[dimviii]

https://instagr.am/p/NB4losJkk6/media/?size=l
Photo by madsostberg &bull; Instagram (http://instagram.com/p/NB4losJkk6/) <---klik

[rallye-vid]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/uploads/pics/news_int_20120713_01.jpg

[stefanvv]

madsostbergI don't like hospitals, and especially not to be in one! But, now I'm stuck here inn a hospital in Czech Republic, after crash on shakedown. Not a big crash, but pain in the back is quite big :( hopefully they will fix me soon!

Photo by madsostberg &bull; Instagram (http://instagram.com/p/NBavxgJkiN/)

Get well soon Mads. We expect you in Finland in top form.

[logic]

If i say that i know Loeb sleeps upside down with 10 monkeys on his head I will have to prove it...not the other way around.

Wake up or change sport...

When someone claims something like that he will have to back up his words.

Back yours up now , so how do you know?

[alleskids]

Juha Kannkunen is linked, and having a test soon, to Bentley in the Dakar 2013 rally, taking over the chassis of the Volkswagen Touareg and confirting it to a Bentley EXP9

[rallye-vid]

Mads onboard from the crash: V?e o Rally CZ, AutoCrossu, RallyCrossu, Kartingu ? MediaSport.cz (http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/3462.html?quality=hd)

[BleAivano]

Wow, an era isn't just defined by what cars are driving. The championship really ment something in those days, it was as high profile as F1, and every single event stood out from the other.

If you ask the drivers, those cars were actually incredible to drive, not horrible. Lancia 037, damnit that's so much better than a DS3 WRC.

Yeah today all rallies have the same name formula, the same name Rally +name of the country, 4-5 stages
before lunch and 4-5 stages after lunch (pre-luch stages repeated). Almost no evening/night stages.
Also most rallies seems to be held at the same time every year. It would be really great if let say Sweden and Finland
could Swap places in calendar every second year. Making Finland the winter rally those years.
Or why not having Rally GB early in the season instead of always having it towards the end?

Perhaps the GrpB cars were too extreme but the current WRC are in that case to standardized, they basically look and sound
too much like a regular road car with some nice paint. Too small, to nimble and to agile like go-karts with a body. Quite boring imo.
I wouldn't mind seeing a return to 2.0L engines or even 2.5L engines (with turbo).
Cars should be 2 or 4 door saloon cars (impreza, Lancer, Integrale...) or 2 door coupes (like Quattro, Celica).
Engines that should be slightly more powerful then today's lawn mover engines.

Also it would be possible to combine the look and sound of those cars with the modern technology.

In my personal opinion too much of today's work and focus is on how to make the cars cheaper rather then focusing on
how to make WRC rallying more exciting and spectacular.

WRC today is like F1 would skip the F1 cars and start using Formula Ford cars.

[traxx]

Ogier would like to see Sordo in the VW team :
La Polo hors WRC en 2012 et avec Sordo en 2013 ? (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2012/07/14/la-polo-hors-wrc-en-2012-et-avec-sordo-en-2013/)

[N.O.T]

it would be the logical choice if they are serious...

[dimviii]

same i understant reading a Ogiers speech at a magazine.They are not near Citroens speed yet.

confirmed...
La Polo enchaine les tests (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2012/07/12/la-polo-enchaine-les-tests/)

[eestlane]

Facebook (http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=398467123545170&id=116547335070485&set=a.398467100211839.89505.116547335070485&relevant_count=1&__user=1106753222)
Kruudas design

[Plan9]

Sandell will be doing the Chinese Rally Championship this year according to his homepage. I am not sure what that will mean for his participation in the WRC.

[Maxi]

Martin Semerad's codriver killed in accident:

iRally | The free independent Rally App for the iPhone, iPad and Android (http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00001309&11)

[Maui J.]

More sad news unfortunately.
Condolences to Bohuslav Ceplecha's family and friends, and Martin of course.

[A.F.F.]

@ N.O.T. You do remember that Peugeot won the championship in their first whole season, don't you? So why not VW ??

And claiming that back in the 80's every tourist could win a rally??? In the era of group-B cars ?? Cars that had to be driven in order to win, cars that modern drivers can't even drive. So tourists.... seriously?

[N.O.T]

@ N.O.T. You do remember that Peugeot won the championship in their first whole season, don't you? So why not VW ??

And claiming that back in the 80's every tourist could win a rally??? In the era of group-B cars ?? Cars that had to be driven in order to win, cars that modern drivers can't even drive. So tourists.... seriously?

I remember that Peugeot won their championship on their 2nd year... they did some events in 99.... same approach as citroen...

VW are coming full speed titanic style and i think that Citroen might be the iceberg....

[N.O.T]

And claiming that back in the 80's every tourist could win a rally??? In the era of group-B cars ?? Cars that had to be driven in order to win, cars that modern drivers can't even drive. So tourists.... seriously?

compared to todays drivers the 80s drivers with some exceptions of course (kankkunen that is) were nothing.... but that is another story and not a rumor or something new to be discussed here...

[A.F.F.]

Markku Alen was nothing? Ari Vatanen was nothing? Walter Röhrl was nothing? Hannu Mikkola was nothing? Henry Toivonen was nothing? Miki Biasion was nothing?


Interesting. I guess you never saw group-B cars driven on stages live, listened to the sound, witnessed how the drivers took 90 degree turns or hairpins or pushed them flat out over the crests? They had no torque what so ever compared to modern cars, the revs had to be high all the time... Surely it got be easy, hey, it's easy with Playstation.

[N.O.T]

Miki Biasion was nothing?

yes.

[Maui J.]

compared to todays drivers the 80s drivers with some exceptions of course (kankkunen that is) were nothing.... but that is another story and not a rumor or something new to be discussed here...

I wish there was a Dislike button.

[A.F.F.]

yes.

Two time world champion?? Is nothing? Please, share your wisdom, how is that possible?

[Josti]

Two time world champion?? Is nothing? Please, share your wisdom, how is that possible?

Just one of those weird NOT delusions with no argumental value.

[stefanvv]

Markku Alen was nothing? Ari Vatanen was nothing? Walter Röhrl was nothing? Hannu Mikkola was nothing? Henry Toivonen was nothing? Miki Biasion was nothing?


Interesting. I guess you never saw group-B cars driven on stages live, listened to the sound, witnessed how the drivers took 90 degree turns or hairpins or pushed them flat out over the crests? They had no torque what so ever compared to modern cars, the revs had to be high all the time... Surely it got be easy, hey, it's easy with Playstation.

It is not easy even with Playstation (or PC). Those cars are unleashed monsters and everyone should have huge respect to the group B drivers being able to storm through the stages with them and give us such a thrill. Some of them even paid with their life, and saying they are tourists is like you don't know what is this about. May be Loeb is spoiling people...

[Rallyper]

I think N.O.T. only likes to tease everyone... Because N.O.T. is too young to even exist at that time. Of course the drivers back in the 80´s were fantastic drivers and in full comparable to todays WRC drivers (top 4-5).

[N.O.T]

Two time world champion?? Is nothing? Please, share your wisdom, how is that possible?

LAL... yes indeed...impossible.... i wonder what kankkunen has to say about it...

[N.O.T]

It is not easy even with Playstation (or PC). Those cars are unleashed monsters and everyone should have huge respect to the group B drivers being able to storm through the stages with them and give us such a thrill. Some of them even paid with their life, and saying they are tourists is like you don't know what is this about. May be Loeb is spoiling people...

compared to todays they were inferior... far inferior... for the time they were gods for managing to handle the cars.

But please i really would like to see the results of a chain smoker, an overweight blob and a guy who was affraid of Finland in todays rallies and cars... back then they won championships if i am not mistaken.

For the time they were amazing... for todays standards they were nothing apart from the 2nd best driver of all times Kankkunen.

[danon]

compared to todays drivers the 80s drivers with some exceptions of course (kankkunen that is) were nothing.... but that is another story and not a rumor or something new to be discussed here...

Ridiculous statement!
You said ones, you did boxing.
Now, compare yourself to Mike Tyson.
Would knock 'm down/out - or he is just an oldschool guy of the past and is nothing compered to the present/todays you ... too. :blackeye:

[Rallyper]

[quote="N.O.T"]compared to todays they were inferior... far inferior... for the time they were gods for managing to handle the cars.

But please i really would like to see the results of a chain smoker, an overweight blob and a guy who was affraid of Finland in todays rallies and cars... back then they won championships if i am not mistaken.

This is only very very hypothetical because we will never be able to make a fair judgement of what you´re saying. It´s absolute those drivers would have been given Loeb, JML and Hirvo a big competiton, with or without cigarettes. BTW JK is/was a big smoker and even user of glass...

[N.O.T]

Ridiculous statement!
You said ones, you did boxing.
Now, compare yourself to Mike Tyson.
Would knock 'm down/out - or he is just an oldschool guy of the past and is nothing compered to the present/todays you ... too. :blackeye:

different weight class....

and we talk about a sport were it changed very little from the 80s till today... and were the standards were always almost the same.

[danon]

different weight class....

Different weight class - Same techniques.

[janvanvurpa]

Markku Alen was nothing? Ari Vatanen was nothing? Walter Röhrl was nothing? Hannu Mikkola was nothing? Henry Toivonen was nothing? Miki Biasion was nothing?


Interesting. I guess you never saw group-B cars driven on stages live, listened to the sound, witnessed how the drivers took 90 degree turns or hairpins or pushed them flat out over the crests? They had no torque what so ever compared to modern cars, the revs had to be high all the time... Surely it got be easy, hey, it's easy with Playstation.

I did watch them in person. (after I DNFed!) And I build engines, and I really can't imagine how you could say " no torque.whatsoever compared to modern (WRC) cars'

I'm 95% metric but in motor power I still speak ft/lbs. My memory is the earlier cars were in the region of "2 1/2 times the torque of the Cosworth BDG" like the great Escort in full Group 4 trim made. I've only built one BDG and memory says they made about 170-175 ft/lbs of torque.. memory also says the Pug and Lancia made about 390 ft/lbs. Ford and Audi higher with their 2.0 and 2.1 motors.

Thing is, with the huge restrictor they had the motors would rev, and since they would, there was no need to make it into a soley mid-range monster like the recent 2,0 World Rally Cars...When the motor will rev, you just turn that into more ft/lbs via the final drive ratio ie shorter gears.. I asked some of the Swedish mechanics on the GpB Celicas and the Audi guys what they were geard for and they said "Right about 185 km/hr"...and that was on 66cm tires. Short gearing.

If you recall back to 87-88 when the GpA cars were suddenly the top class, they also revved quite high, and at least with Ford they were using 4.88 or 4.67 final drive ratio, compare that with the 4.27 or 4.44 of the 34mm restrictor days.

I say they made buckets of torque, weighed hundreds of kg less than the current 1250kg, were gear much shorter, and flat went like stink....

Funny thing is the motors were only a bit larger on the 205s and Lancias~~~around 1725cc--than today's 1600.

[stefanvv]

@ N.O.T. You do remember that Peugeot won the championship in their first whole season, don't you? So why not VW ??

And claiming that back in the 80's every tourist could win a rally??? In the era of group-B cars ?? Cars that had to be driven in order to win, cars that modern drivers can't even drive. So tourists.... seriously?

Interestingly this is what FIA was trying to achieve in F1 for years. And they finally did that - by making the cars equally slow :D . But this is not the case with Group B specification (or more the lack of such).

[A.F.F.]

LAL... yes indeed...impossible.... i wonder what kankkunen has to say about it...

Well what would Kankkunen say about that?

With sincere respect, your hero Burns got his title with one win and the help of Märtin and Solberg. Yet he carries the title. The rules were different back then. Manufacturers didn't nominate all the drivers to all the rallyes. Biasion earned his titles by being fast and consistent enough and should be treated like a champion what he is.

[belas]

The same old story again and again. People ( not only in this sport ) always tend to compare drivers of today, with those of the '70ties or 80ties. Well I have witnessed some fantastic drivers from 1977 until today.
Compare what ? the group B monsters that only 3-4 guys could really drive them flat-out, the 550-600 kms of special stages with UNLIMITED passes in the recce ( in some stages they did more than 20 with a rally car ), the tyre warmers even on gravel, the roadside service before and after each SS with :
2 passes in the recce, control tyres, 150-180 real kms of SS, service parks and only remote in between, fantastic suspensions, friendlier cars,
BUT surprise surprise the result remains the same : Still there are 3-4 drivers that can really extract the maximum of their car's capabilities, as it will always be.
It was as thrilling to watch Henri Toivonen with the 037, as it is in a different way to watch Loeb with the DS3. The only bad period were the first two years of gr.A especially after gr.B it was a shock.
By the way Lancia indeed gave one championship to Biasion instead of Kankkunen, but still he was one real rallyman and I will never forget the ride that he shared with me with the Escort Cosworth. It was almost as exciting as the one a few years before with the late Henri Toivonen and the 037

[Rallyper]

Well what would Kankkunen say about that?

With sincere respect, your hero Burns got his title with one win and the help of Märtin and Solberg. Yet he carries the title. The rules were different back then. Manufacturers didn't nominate all the drivers to all the rallyes. Biasion earned his titles by being fast and consistent enough and should be treated like a champion what he is.

Don´t agree. Burns didn´t get anything for free. Believe me. I too remember that year 2001 perfectly.
Instead RB had to struggle and the first half was not so good. After that he really took the points needed.
And for the final rally GB there were three men able to claim the championship. Mäkinen who went out hitting front left wheel on a stub, and Colin doing the spectacular five lap roll in high speed after he was stressed by RB on the stages before.

So RB is one amongst several that would have given Loeb some hard times.

But still it´s not worth much having a discussion of who´s the best ever. There were many. But, I think with a small margin Loeb is the best ever even if it´s kind of hard to admit.

[A.F.F.]

Don´t agree. Burns didn´t get anything for free. Believe me. I too remember that year 2001 perfectly.
Instead RB had to struggle and the first half was not so good. After that he really took the points needed.
And for the final rally GB there were three men able to claim the championship. Mäkinen who went out hitting front left wheel on a stub, and Colin doing the spectacular five lap roll in high speed after he was stressed by RB on the stages before.

So RB is one amongst several that would have given Loeb some hard times.

But still it´s not worth much having a discussion of who´s the best ever. There were many. But, I think with a small margin Loeb is the best ever even if it´s kind of hard to admit.

There was a rally that season in which both, Märtin and Solberg let Burns pass in order to get better result and points for championship. I can't remember which one it was but I'll get back to you as soon as I have checked it out from my season reviews. So yes, Burns got something for free that season.

[N.O.T]

There was a rally that season in which both, Märtin and Solberg let Burns pass in order to get better result and points for championship. I can't remember which one it was but I'll get back to you as soon as I have checked it out from my season reviews. So yes, Burns got something for free that season.

Solberg in one of the tarmac rallies gave him one point by arriving late on a tc and that 1 point was the chmpionship winner.

[A.F.F.]

There was a rally that season in which both, Märtin and Solberg let Burns pass in order to get better result and points for championship. I can't remember which one it was but I'll get back to you as soon as I have checked it out from my season reviews. So yes, Burns got something for free that season.

Rally Corsica 2001. Both Petter and Markko let him pass from 6th to 4th and he got 3 points instead of one. And like NOT said, it was enough at the end of the season.

[Rallyper]

Rally Corsica 2001. Both Petter and Markko let him pass from 6th to 4th and he got 3 points instead of one. And like NOT said, it was enough at the end of the season.

Well, Loeb also had those favours. Have you noticed that?

[A.F.F.]

Well, Loeb also had those favours. Have you noticed that?

Yes, most of them have. Kankkunen gave points for Biasion. Biasion gave points for Alen. Mäkinen for Erikson, Burns for Mäkinen, the list goes on and on. But my point with Burns conserned NOT's claim to Biasion, not Loeb.

[N.O.T]

the main difference was that all the drivers you mentioned were faster 99.9% of the times from the ones they gave them points and it was mainly due to other reasons they fell behind and they forced to take the points in that way..

In the case of the overweight tourist who was there because of his nationality it was not the case and Kannkunen was forced to slow down...

and now i am physically sick just by thinking this....

[Rallyper]

the main difference was that all the drivers you mentioned were faster 99.9% of the times from the ones they gave them points and it was mainly due to other reasons they fell behind and they forced to take the points in that way..

In the case of the overweight tourist who was there because of his nationality it was not the case and Kannkunen was forced to slow down...

and now i am physically sick just by thinking this....

I really think KAnkkunen was amongst the best but he was one amongst many...

[stefanvv]

[quote="N.O.T"]

Forced to slow down in every Rally? Hard to believe that...

[Franky]

Just a question. How is this tourist talk related to news or rumours? Or I have missed something?

[A.F.F.]

Just a question. How is this tourist talk related to news or rumours? Or I have missed something?

We're getting there, just give us time :D

Btw.... Who was that overweight tourist ?? I can't figure it out.

[stefanvv]

Just a question. How is this tourist talk related to news or rumours? Or I have missed something?

It all started long, long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away) :D The original story was Citroen's and Loeb's retirement this year, if I'm not mistaken, there is good chance that I am :D

[stefanvv]

We're getting there, just give us time :D

Btw.... Who was that overweight tourist ?? I can't figure it out.

I think his name starts with 'B' and ends with 'iasion'.

[skarderud]

A "fun" thing is that its news/rumours in the pub-tread and pub-talk in the news/rumours tread.....

[tolis]

Solberg finally finished first!!! :D
1-2-3 for Ford!
Ford Rally Sports Day - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1Uo9b80DWY)

[Salist]

It's funny. :-)

[dimviii]

Autonews Magazine » Rallye international » La Peugeot 208 R2 à l (http://www.autonews-magazine.com/blog/?p=24565)

[jbmarcus21]

and...
VW continue Test Days with gravel now...


http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3071/132uq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/256/132uq.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[dimviii]

any more photos-videos?

[stefanvv]

Hard workers. Where is the test, Germany?

[clem126]

Citroen WRC team confirms redundancies and financial cutbacks won't impact programme - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101259)

Well if Loeb retires this season, that's 8millions saved by the team for 2013! ;D

[A FONDO]

why 8 millions?

[AP-Racing]

why 8 millions?

Yeah...interesting question
Because Loeb salary 16M Euros per year

[rage82]

His salary :)

[tommeke_B]

His salary alone is probably more than what Ford invests in the WRC. Sad reality...

[dimviii]

His salary alone is probably more than what Ford invests in the WRC. Sad reality...

And Loeb salary must be just a 20% what Wilson earns from rented Fords parts etc. ;)

[MJW]

Citroen WRC team confirms redundancies and financial cutbacks won't impact programme - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101259)

Well if Loeb retires this season, that's 8millions saved by the team for 2013! ;D Brilliant news, great relief, I hope things are looking up. Other positives today in British press is that the promoter thing is still ongoing with Eurosport , Red Bull and some South African concern still ongoing with one likely to be succesful.

[Fri]

Eurosport!? Than what about this:
FIA WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2012/Pages/wrc-ebu.aspx)

[MJW]

Eurosport!? Than what about this:
FIA WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2012/Pages/wrc-ebu.aspx)

That's for distribution for this year. The way I read it Eurosport or Red Bull or the South African bid was for global promoter. VW are keen on Eurosport, Malcolm says social media And internet is complimentary but we must have proper TV and he thinks the South African bid wont be ready for 2013. My guess it's either Eurosport or Red Bull, incidentaly both with good connections to VW, who it appears have had a major review of wrc this year, and still beleive its worth it. I think they have been given some inside info from FIA. :-)

[BleAivano]

Mitsubishi Motors Sweden save Ramona and Miriam after the fire (http://www.ramonarallying.com/2012/07/18/mitsubishi-motors-sverige-raddar-ramona-och-miriam-efter-branden/)


The rally car was insured, but before the process is finished they need a spare car,
since Rally Germany is coming up soon. But thanks to their sponsor Mitsubishi Motors Sweden,
the girls now have found a solution to have a new Mitsubishi EVO X for Rally Germany.

[tolis]

Rumours for San Marino Rally instead of Rally Italia Sardegna in WRC 2013...

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/562809_10150970626668952_73355842_n.jpg

[N.O.T]

It is going to be a good change as long as they make the format of the rally more interesting than the usual 4 stages per day.

[RAS007]

Whatever happened to San Remo?

[Gregor-y]

Whatever happened to San Remo?
Like other rallies that didn't cotton to the WRC's dumbing down they went to the IRC.

[Barreis]

I liked San Remo.

[N.O.T]

Like other rallies that didn't cotton to the WRC's dumbing down they went to the IRC.

why they want to come back then ?

[kober]

why they want to come back then ?It's San Marino, not Sanremo, that wants to be a WRC round.

[N.O.T]

It's San Marino, not Sanremo, that wants to be a WRC round.

Ahhh indeed...

[jbmarcus21]

VW testing gravel with Polo wrc & Ogier this week in France : full gallery photo Image (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/testdaysvw0712.htm)

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/687/5421nz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40/5421nz.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[rallyfiend]

Nice 2011 video.

Must have been done by North One before they disappeared?

What is WRC? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9jU6E9XKyg)

[Andre Oliveira]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/319467_253249358126377_315843997_n.jpg

[Red bull]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/319467_253249358126377_315843997_n.jpg Nice liverly,who's car?

[traxx]

Here is my post about the Ogier & Polo tests this week :
La Polo à l (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2012/07/19/la-polo-a-lepreuve-de-la-terre-cassante/)

[Barreis]

Nice liverly,who's car?

Simone Campadelli, Italian, drives ds3 r3 cup, also n4 cars in the past.

[tolis]

Which rally will he do in this car? WRC Sardegna?

[Bartolbia84]

No word yet on who will race at the start Simon ... the clues lead to the Rally of Italy .... but soon released a press release.

[Maxi]

Prodrive have made a right hand drive Mini WRC:
News < McGeehan Motorsport (http://www.mcgeehanmotorsport.com/index.php?id=news)

[Pinto]

its to make its début next Saturday in Lurgan park and to be driven by team principle Derek Mcgeehan who will also have Kris Meeke alongside in second Mini WRC

[rallye-vid]

R.I.P Valerio Catelani/Daniela Bertoneri

Tragedy strikes the 47th 'Rally Città di Lucca' with fatal crash | Demotix.com (http://www.demotix.com/news/1348129/tragedy-strikes-47th-rally-citt-di-lucca-fatal-crash)

[jbmarcus21]

Team Ford start today Finland Test to prepare NORF with Petter... First photo Image (http://bit.ly/MCSzcB)

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5131/5429u.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/5429u.jpg/)

[rallye-vid]

VW 2013: Ogier, Latvala & Mikkelsen

VW: Ogier, Latvala und Mikkelsen*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/07/24/vw-ogier-latvala-und-mikkelsen/index.html)

[N.O.T]

Another source of income to the VW team... wrong driver choice though.

[HaCo]

And Sordo to Ford would awesome!

Verstuurd van mijn ARCHOS 80G9 met Tapatalk

[N.O.T]

And Sordo to Ford would awesome!

Verstuurd van mijn ARCHOS 80G9 met Tapatalk

along with Ostberg they would be a good team for 2013.

[Plan9]

any update on motorsport italia/prodrive plans?

[Plan9]

*for 2013*

[jbmarcus21]

Petter Solberg Testing Rally Finland DAY2 [PHOTO] Image (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/testdaysford0712.htm)

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6743/5431.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/528/5431.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[tolis]

New colours for Hayden Paddon who is going to drive a BRR Fabia S2000 from now on.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/528941_415907588445036_644332268_n.jpg

[6789]

Any reason for changing teams?

[N.O.T]

99.9% of the time the reason is

THE GREEN GOD OF THE IMMITATION OF HAPPINES

also known as the moneyzzz

[Mirek]

BRR is one of the most expensive teams running Fabia S2000 but also the most reliable after works team (which has the crazy record of no mechanical retirement in all their starts since first homologation in January 2009).

[6789]

99.9% of the time the reason is

THE GREEN GOD OF THE IMMITATION OF HAPPINES

also known as the moneyzzz

I thought that would be the case, hope he goes well for the rest of the SWRC season.

[N.O.T]

BRR is one of the most expensive teams running Fabia S2000 but also the most reliable after works team (which has the crazy record of no mechanical retirement in all their starts since first homologation in January 2009).

apart from the Team owners car who are the other drivers that drive for the team ?

[pucky54]

Herczig in Hungarian Champ also

[cali]

Hänninen drove BRR car in last SWRC.

[MJW]

Sandell also drove a BRR Skoda a few years ago. The are a very good team. When you are a paying cusdtomer it is a balance of quality versus costs, remember Eyvind Brynildsen's season withe Rene Georges? then it was run by FG Racing, under the Petter Solberg Team entry.

[Mirek]

Hänninen drove BRR car in last SWRC.

Actually not. Juho had works car which was just in BRR service area. Something like Mikkelsens car which is also works one but placed in Škoda UK (Italia) service.

From other BRR starts which were not mentioned yet - Sandell (SWRC), Athanassoulas (Acropolis win), Hänninen (NORF 2010). I also don't remember any their mechanical retirement. Maybe there was some...

EDIT: MJW was faster with Sandell :)

[sete]

PYeklada Google (http://translate.google.cz/translate?prev=hp&hl=cs&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rally-mania.cz%2Fnews.php&sl=cs&tl=en)

rumours about K.Meeke will go to Škoda UK car for next year

[tolis]

...Athanassoulas (Acropolis win)...
I thought Athanassoulas's Fabia was an A-Style one...

[Mirek]

You are right. Sorry ;)

[A FONDO]

:laugh:

[eestlane]

Ford World Rally Team said on Facebook that today they will announce something suprising .

[Miika]

Ford World Rally Team said on Facebook that today they will announce something suprising .

Let me guess, they´ll announce an exhilarating competition where people can vote whether the cars have either porridge or breakfast cereal painted on their roof.

[alleskids]

or a betting contest predicting when exactly Latvalla will crash and when Petter will have his puncture by overdriving the car. Plus how far they wil come back in the general standing

[stefanvv]

You are wrong, they will probably announce that they won't fight for victory and won't win NORF. :confused:

[MartijnS]

Different livery :)

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/561408_497993653547493_1795916934_n.jpg

[Miika]

OK so no porridge but colors from the Estonian flag.

[dimviii]

this is the surprise?....or they will anounce something? :rolleyes:

[MartijnS]

This is it :D
What else should they announce according to Rally Finland..? ;)

[dimviii]

This is it :D


speechless!! what a surprise!! :disturb:

[Salist]

Wow it's a nice new livery.

[jbmarcus21]

Latvala testing today NORF ... Image (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/testdaysford0712.htm)

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/74/5433.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/5433.jpg/)

[stefanvv]

What happened to the green? I liked the green... but looks really nice indeed.

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/561222_497998523547006_1951098603_n.jpg

[User]

They gonna make it look like the Polo?

[WRCfan]

Not exactly news or rumours although I had the chance to shoot this replica RS1800 today. The car runs a genuine Cosworth engine, period correct brakes and suspension and has been built from the ground up. The car is currently running 285BHP at the rear wheels and sounds fantastic. A quick shot of it below.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9407/ampimg9811.jpg

[MikeD]

If you can't win you can always change livery to switch the focus....

[janvanvurpa]

Not exactly news or rumours although I had the chance to shoot this replica RS1800 today. The car runs a genuine Cosworth engine, period correct brakes and suspension and has been built from the ground up. The car is currently running 285BHP at the rear wheels and sounds fantastic. A quick shot of it below.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9407/ampimg9811.jpg

Nice, looks like a car. Where?

What's the intended use?

[alleskids]

They gonna make it look like the Polo?

Malcolm Wilson wants to trick Latvalla, believing he is driving the VW Polo WRC, but still is kept tied to M-Sport?

[WRCfan]

Nice, looks like a car. Where?

What's the intended use?

The car is in New Zealand, and is going to be used for tarmac circuit racing, as well as classic Targa rally events. It's certainly not a show pony and has been built purely for competition.

[wrchirek]

Nasser Al-Attiyah has qualified himself to the final of mens' skeet in London Olympic Games.

Final starts at 14:00 (15:00 CET)

http://www.london2012.com/shooting/event/men-skeet/

[N.O.T]

Nasser second so far :) :) Go Nasser !!!

[bjalverud]

And rumours in France about "his" Qatar to buy Citroen Racing for next years..

[MartijnS]

Shoot-off for bronze!

[N.O.T]

Nasser and the russian guy will shoot it out for the bronze...

[N.O.T]

and the Greek TV decided to turn to the boat racing of nothing....

[MartijnS]

He takes bronze! :D

[Miika]

Congrats Nasser.

[N.O.T]

YES !!! Nasser 6-5 at shoot off....

[N.O.T]

Very nice... i am happy now.

[EightGear]

NOS Olympische Spelen 2012 (http://nos.nl/os2012/play/5/)

Stream, don't know if it will work outisde of NL.

Edit: Oops, too late, I'm sorry. They were still shooting here...

[N.O.T]

It works, but it is over now... Thank you anyway.

[Tom206wrc]

And rumours in France about "his" Qatar to buy Citroen Racing for next years..


AutoHebdo website reveals this stunning and unexpected news(not rumour anymore)...

[AP-Racing]

AutoHebdo website reveals this stunning and unexpected news(not rumour anymore)...

And if i understand right, 2013 - last season for Citroen in WRC

[N.O.T]

And if i understand right, 2013 - last season for Citroen in WRC

we had signs for that long time ago... it seems so... Citroen out and Peugeot in... if not in right away then in 2-3 years time.

About the Qatar deal... t remains to be seen if the team will continue as Citroen racing works team or as a semi-works kronos team like in 2006.

[Red bull]

QATAR BUYS CITROEN RACING Google&#39;i tõlge (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=et&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/article-26-1-12163/310712-le-qatar-rachete-citroen-racing)

[Miika]

..and Citroen hurries to deny it, naturally.



Citroën refutes the claim that it is to be bought out by a Qatari investment fund.
https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/230362922650566656

[danon]

Buy out or bail out!

It makes helluva difference. :D

[Maui J.]

Nice work Nasser.
Watching the shooting now on delayed coverage... thanks for the spoiler!!

[Rally Hokkaido]

Everyone remember Henning's & Matty's sponsorship deal that 'went fast' ?

Anthony Hamilton suing di Resta over firing | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/anthony-hamilton-suing-di-resta-over-firing/)

[Barreis]

Citroen team principal denies rumours Citroen Racing could be sold - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101679)

[Tom206wrc]

Citroen team principal denies rumours Citroen Racing could be sold - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101679)


Matton should be more aware and cautious, especially with someone like Philippe Varin(chairman of PSA group) deciding of the future...at Peugeot-Sport before the 18th january it wasn't thinkable to stop the 908 project, so... :rolleyes:

[danon]

Al-Attiyah confirms sale -> Al-Attiyah confirme la vente - Fil Info - Rallye - Auto/Moto - Sport 24 (http://www.sport24.com/auto-moto/rallye/fil-info/al-attiyah-confirme-la-vente-573865)

[dimviii]

Al-Attiyah confirms sale -> Al-Attiyah confirme la vente - Fil Info - Rallye - Auto/Moto - Sport 24 (http://www.sport24.com/auto-moto/rallye/fil-info/al-attiyah-confirme-la-vente-573865)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rallyfiend]

I wonder if maybe someone has mistaken 1 August for 1 April.

This could all be a big load of cobblers.

[Francis44]

This is funny.

[rallyfiend]

Matton should be more aware and cautious, especially with someone like Philippe Varin(chairman of PSA group) deciding of the future...at Peugeot-Sport before the 18th january it wasn't thinkable to stop the 908 project, so... :rolleyes:

Not so true. There were quite a few people who knew of the high likelihood of the cessation of the WEC programme as early as November.

I say 'high likelihood', not definite cancellation.

[A FONDO]

This is funny.

or PHONEY :D we'll see, but citroen is fading down anyway

[rallye-vid]

Someone from London to ask Nasser if it's true? :cool:

[Andre Oliveira]

Funny like pseudo MINI factory team :s pin:

[mousti]

WRC becomes PRC , Private Rally Championship :D

[tfp]

I wonder what will become of the drivers? Or maybe it will be a repeat of the Kronos? Shame for Mikko, switching teams in fear of not having a seat the next year, only to not have a seat the following year!

[pettersolberg29]

Shame for Mikko, switching teams in fear of not having a seat the next year, only to not have a seat the following year!

If the JML to VW rumours are as true as they seem then maybe Mikko can jump straight back to Ford? Him and Petter would be a pretty consistent team which might actually have a chance at the manufacturer's title!

[6789]

Is anyone else feeling that this could be Petter's last year? I hope he continues, but I'm not really sure. I guess if he got a victory then he would continue on, without one it might be more difficult but

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

.....This season, I tell you.......

[bassist]

Is anyone else feeling that this could be Petter's last year? I hope he continues, but I'm not really sure. I guess if he got a victory then he would continue on, without one it might be more difficult but

Yes, I think this could be his last year in WRC. A win or two could change the situation, but realistically there are too many young guns waiting to fill his shoes.It will be a shame because Petter brings so much more to the WRC than just his speed. Anyway, at this rate and if all the rumours are to be beleived, will there be a WRC next year anyway? Hope not , but it is all a bit `up in the air`!!!!

[A FONDO]

If there are 5-6 manu teams, Petter truly deserves a seat in on of them. But when only 3 and with Sordo, Neuville, Tanak, Ostberg, Novikov, Paddon, Mikelsen storming behind, I dont think so.

[Barreis]

In manufacturer seat must be podium regulars, not money wasters.

[skarderud]

If there are 5-6 manu teams, Petter truly deserves a seat in on of them. But when only 3 and with Sordo, Neuville, Tanak, Ostberg, Novikov, Paddon, Mikelsen storming behind, I dont think so.

well, sadly maybe you have right, but it should be to stupid, even for m.wilson. sordo is same speed, mikkelsen, østberg and partly novikov is right behind. but tanak, neuville, paddon etc is not even close petters speed, not to start to think about his experience and showman skills.
then its only about money.

[stefanvv]

Yes, I think this could be his last year in WRC. A win or two could change the situation, but realistically there are too many young guns waiting to fill his shoes.It will be a shame because Petter brings so much more to the WRC than just his speed.
I don't think win or two will change the status much, of course win is win, but look what happened in Greece. He at least is consistently scoring points (except Greece)

Anyway, at this rate and if all the rumours are to be beleived, will there be a WRC next year anyway? Hope not , but it is all a bit `up in the air`!!!!
You hope there will be no WRC next year?!? There should be despite all the problems and looks like there will be promoter then (at least what FIA states).

[bassist]

I don't think win or two will change the status much, of course win is win, but look what happened in Greece. He at least is consistently scoring points (except Greece)

You hope there will be no WRC next year?!? There should be despite all the problems and looks like there will be promoter then (at least what FIA states).

No.not at all. I think the WRC has to carry on despite all the difficulties, but the climate is not good!

[EightGear]

Prodrive announces Mini team will skip Rally GB - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101693)

[A FONDO]

wise decision

[Allyc85]

Disappointed :(

But in a way I can understand their decision.

[AndyRAC]

A shame, but understandable. The contrast with last year, when there was so much optimism, couldn't be greater.

[denkimi]

If the JML to VW rumours are as true as they seem then maybe Mikko can jump straight back to Ford? Him and Petter would be a pretty consistent team which might actually have a chance at the manufacturer's title!
if ford wants to win the manufacturer's title they should hire mikko and sordo. petter doesn't have the speed to win nor the consistency to finish high in the points each time.


well, sadly maybe you have right, but it should be to stupid, even for m.wilson. sordo is same speed, mikkelsen, østberg and partly novikov is right behind. but tanak, neuville, paddon etc is not even close petters speed, not to start to think about his experience and showman skills.
then its only about money.
the problem is that solberg is getting too old.
he's fast enough for this year, but solberg is only going to become slower, while the young drivers will only become faster/more reliable. within a year, or 2 at maximum, ostberg, novikov, mikkelsen and neuville will be just as fast or even faster.

[danon]

Yet, buy out or bail out... Matton Interview : 60% external budget for 2013 -> http://oi50.tinypic.com/2ex52lw.jpg

[dimviii]

Yet, buy out or bail out... Matton Interview : 60% external budget for 2013 -> http://oi50.tinypic.com/2ex52lw.jpg

any other news?

[danon]

any other news?

Coming up next...

[sollitt]

.... but tanak, neuville, paddon etc is not even close petters speed ... How do you know until you've sat them in the same car?

[rallyfiend]

Rumour has it a promoter has been chosen, just seems to be conflicting reports as to which of the final 3 candidates it is....

[Plan9]

Paddon is finding it hard to gather enough cash to complete the SWRC season. If he can get the money together, he hope to contest some rounds next year in a WRC-spec car (unclear what make).

[jbmarcus21]

#WRC Full 2012 season standings with [Drivers, Manufacturers, Scratchs, Power Stage] Loeb171, Hirvo128, Citro280 For171........

[skarderud]

How do you know until you've sat them in the same car?


tanak's car is not wery different from petters, he is to "hot head", but still young.
paddon is a talent, but won't be at petters level at 2-3 yrs more.
neuville has a better car then petter (citroen is clearly better than ford, i doubt he has different spec than seb og mikko), he actually impressed me this weekend, but still he isn't at petters level yet.

[sollitt]

Subjective opinion without factual basis.

[Ucci]

Subjective opinion without factual basis.

I agree 100% with you. Already two&three years ago we had to listen to this crap about C4 was a better car than Focus and now we are facing again situation with DS3 and Fiesta. Only P.Solberg or Mikko know the differences and advantages/disadvantages of each car and as much I can remeber nowebody of them stated that on car is so much better that this brings obvious advantage in driving at full.

[vkangas]

Don't know has this been here before but now when Esapekka Lappi has got everyone's attention it's worth mentioning that he will do Rally Germany this month with Citroen C2. Next year is also going to be fully international IRC/ERC being the most likely series.

[pettersolberg29]

I agree 100% with you. Already two&three years ago we had to listen to this crap about C4 was a better car than Focus and now we are facing again situation with DS3 and Fiesta. Only P.Solberg or Mikko know the differences and advantages/disadvantages of each car and as much I can remeber nowebody of them stated that on car is so much better that this brings obvious advantage in driving at full.

In general I agree but I do remember Mikko saying something about the Citroen being much easier to handle on flowing roads as it's less twitchy - results from Finland would support this, and also the fact that Petter and JML have been very quick on the twisty stuff and slower on the faster, flowier stages. Also Sordo commented on the twitchiness of the Ford compared to the Mini as far as I remember.

[TyPat107]

^ I remember reading that somewhere as well. I think mikko said Citroen has better understanding of their diffs

[tolis]

Don't know has this been here before but now when Esapekka Lappi has got everyone's attention it's worth mentioning that he will do Rally Germany this month with Citroen C2. Next year is also going to be fully international IRC/ERC being the most likely series.
Why would he prefer IRC instead of SWRC? IRC is based on tarmac, where Lappi has no experience. Maybe the reason is financial. ;)

[Hartusvuori]

Why would he prefer IRC instead of SWRC? IRC is based on tarmac, where Lappi has no experience.

I think you answered your question already.

[DonJippo]

Why would he prefer IRC instead of SWRC? IRC is based on tarmac, where Lappi has no experience. Maybe the reason is financial. ;)

Lappi started his career in karting so he is used to driving on tarmac more than other Finns normally.

[stefanvv]

Why would he prefer IRC instead of SWRC? IRC is based on tarmac, where Lappi has no experience. Maybe the reason is financial. ;)

Nothing bad in some tarmac Rally experience, which most Finns don't really have.

[MJW]

Nothing bad in some tarmac Rally experience, which most Finns don't really have.
Dont underestimate Finns on tarmac - Tommi Makinen was more than capable of getting a good result on tarmac, and as DonJippo said Lappi was lkating at a high level, Formula A.

[N.O.T]

Why would he prefer IRC instead of SWRC? IRC is based on tarmac, where Lappi has no experience. Maybe the reason is financial. ;)

maybe that is the reason why... maybe he wants to make a career out of it and improving on tarmac is the only way... otherwise he ends up like his fellow Fins in the garbage bin of media champs...

You know not every rally driver has the chicken mentality of the greek drivers where they are scared to do any rallies on surfaces they do not know well.

[janvanvurpa]

Lappi started his career in karting so he is used to driving on tarmac more than other Finns normally.

But what Finns drive normally? :rolleyes:

[Franky]

But what Finns drive normally? :rolleyes:

Car, tractor?

[janvanvurpa]

Car, tractor?

Nej I'm sure they drive their tractors full gas, too.

[dimviii]

AUTOhebdo.fr | WRC-Fracture lombaire pour Giraudet (http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/breve-26-1-28997/070812-wrc-fracture-lombaire-pour-giraudet%3Cspan%20class=)

[Mirek]

Another one in a growing row...

Here we had even a petition of crews against mandatory use of HANS (there were no lumbar vertebrae fractures before and than something like two dozens in last few years just in CZ) but as usually without any effect. If someone wants to use it why not but it shall not be mandatory.

[COD]

Why would he prefer IRC instead of SWRC? IRC is based on tarmac, where Lappi has no experience. Maybe the reason is financial. ;)

I think it is the choise of Even Rally, his managers. They see IRC as good opportunity to gain experience before entering WRC. Very good choise from my point of view. Neuville and Mikkelsen good examples.