[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[N.O.T]

Stupid EU discuss about how yellow the bananas or how green the cucumber have to be, but doesn't seem to be interested in safe roads. Well done!

i think it would be wiser to spend more money and time making drivers safer rather than roads...

For example here in Greece more than 70% of the drivers got their licence through bribing the examiners... but here we talk about motorsports.

Rallying is a very dangerous motorsport... We have to accept that each year some people are going to get killed, some seriously injured and we are going to have twice the close calls... People who after a serious crash just wish that it is going to be the last one are plain retards and should follow Curling from now on.

Of course that doesn't mean that we must leave things to luck, but also we must consider that when you put safety first in something that is life threatening by its nature the only thing you do is just take away the excitement of it.

You have to accept some things and move on... if you try and eliminate dangers one by one you will finally eliminate the sport itself... First the guard rails, then the trees, then the tarmac roads due to high speeds ects ects...

It is really sad that this kind of discussion started because some who did what he loved and gave excitement to millions of people is no longer between us, but i think all the people involved from the driver to the mechanic of the team were aware that it was a possibility, and i am also sure that if the sport wasn't that dangerous it would not offer the same levels of excitement, at least to some.

[tfp]

i think it would be wiser to spend more money and time making drivers safer rather than roads...

For example here in Greece more than 70% of the drivers got their licence through bribing the examiners... but here we talk about motorsports.

Rallying is a very dangerous motorsport... We have to accept that each year some people are going to get killed, some seriously injured and we are going to have twice the close calls... People who after a serious crash just wish that it is going to be the last one are plain retards and should follow Curling from now on.

Of course that doesn't mean that we must leave things to luck, but also we must consider that when you put safety first in something that is life threatening by its nature the only thing you do is just take away the excitement of it.

You have to accept some things and move on... if you try and eliminate dangers one by one you will finally eliminate the sport itself... First the guard rails, then the trees, then the tarmac roads due to high speeds ects ects...

It is really sad that this kind of discussion started because some who did what he loved and gave excitement to millions of people is no longer between us, but i think all the people involved from the driver to the mechanic of the team were aware that it was a possibility, and i am also sure that if the sport wasn't that dangerous it would not offer the same levels of excitement, at least to some.

I saw curling on TV once, but it was boring, so I switched it off.

[tfp]

F1 is very good at the moment about safety.

More money there of course, I know RBR have a machine that tests g-forces on impacts etc, I only wish there was more money avaliable from ford and citroen so the same tests could be done, if it only saves one life ever it will be worth it.

[Bigdiggerman]

This is hardly news and rumors....

[Brother John]

This is hardly news and rumors....

Yes you're right Bigdiggerman, many post here belongs more to DISCUSSIONS and PUB-TALK.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/150000-rally-discussions-comments-pub-talk.html

[Barreis]

Google Prevoditelj (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=hr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rally.it%2Fvw-pronta-per-la-stagione-wrc-2013-al-rally-di-germania-lannuncio-ufficiale%2F)

[bluuford]

In addition to Finland, Juha Salo drives Proton in GB as well. Moreover, he will start in rally San Marino with Fiesta S2000. It is the price drive that didn't worked out in Sardegna a year ago.

[Red bull]

VW READY FOR 2013.......MIKKELSEN IN 3RD CAR VW pronta per la stagione WRC 2013. Al Rally di Germania l (http://www.rally.it/vw-pronta-per-la-stagione-wrc-2013-al-rally-di-germania-lannuncio-ufficiale/)

[CWJ]

VW READY FOR 2013.......MIKKELSEN IN 3RD CAR VW pronta per la stagione WRC 2013. Al Rally di Germania l (http://www.rally.it/vw-pronta-per-la-stagione-wrc-2013-al-rally-di-germania-lannuncio-ufficiale/)

No. Nothing official in that article. German meaning is that there will be a third VW Polo R WRC in selected WRC rounds and Andreas Mikkelsen MAY have the best chances...

[Miika]

Helsingin Sanomat (the paper version?) claims that the Latvala to VW -deal is done and that it is two years long with an option for a third year. No confirmation from anyone of course, but hopefully we´ll finally know more around Rallye Deutschland in August.
HS: Latvala vaihtaa Volkswagenille | Yle Urheilu | yle.fi (http://yle.fi/urheilu/hs_latvala_vaihtaa_volkswagenille/6190939)

[makinen_fan]

FIA puts the official timekeeping and mapping on offer for 3year contract. whats the purpose of this, since they suppose to be happy with Stage One technologies and what the do at the moment... they just recently had two features of them in wrc.com on how they work... makes me think if this is about sponsorship and money coming into the sport. FIA World Rally Championship (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2012/Pages/wrc-expression-interest.aspx)

[Allyc85]

FIA puts the official timekeeping and mapping on offer for 3year contract. whats the purpose of this, since they suppose to be happy with Stage One technologies and what the do at the moment... they just recently had two features of them in wrc.com on how they work... makes me think if this is about sponsorship and money coming into the sport. FIA World Rally Championship (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2012/Pages/wrc-expression-interest.aspx)

Bloody rediculoous what the **** are the FIA playing at now!? the teams are happy with the current system so leave it be and spend time sorting out the real problems!

[rallyfan2000]

Bloody rediculoous what the **** are the FIA playing at now!? the teams are happy with the current system so leave it be and spend time sorting out the real problems!

I'm glad everyone is starting to see exactly the kind of people the FIA are. They'll tell you that they're trying to improve the situation when they're making it 10x worse.

I can see it getting to the end of this season and either there will be zero TV coverage/promotion etc or the WRC will cease to even exist.

[RS]

Helsingin Sanomat (the paper version?) claims that the Latvala to VW -deal is done and that it is two years long with an option for a third year. No confirmation from anyone of course, but hopefully we´ll finally know more around Rallye Deutschland in August.
HS: Latvala vaihtaa Volkswagenille | Yle Urheilu | yle.fi (http://yle.fi/urheilu/hs_latvala_vaihtaa_volkswagenille/6190939)

Quite a brave move for both if it's true. VW must be banking on Latvala improving his reliability a lot otherwise there is no point, and for Latvala - well VW bosses might not be as patient as Malcolm.

[AndyRAC]

I'm glad everyone is starting to see exactly the kind of people the FIA are. They'll tell you that they're trying to improve the situation when they're making it 10x worse.

I can see it getting to the end of this season and either there will be zero TV coverage/promotion etc or the WRC will cease to even exist.

Maybe that’s the plan. Let it die, and then start up again, exactly how Jean Todt wants.....

[MJW]

Quite a brave move for both if it's true. VW must be banking on Latvala improving his reliability a lot otherwise there is no point, and for Latvala - well VW bosses might not be as patient as Malcolm.

I would imagine that VW will make a car that is fast enough not to need overdriving to keep up with the Citroen. And I expect VW management to make the correct management / strategy / weather info decisions :-)

[Bartolbia84]

In Sardinia, circulating rumor that Thierry Neuville, most likely I will be away even to the Italian race of the WRC.


If there will Neuville, the Citroen WRC will be 5 to start the race, though perhaps there could be Van Merksteijn.

[makinen_fan]

I would imagine that VW will make a car that is fast enough not to need overdriving to keep up with the Citroen. And I expect VW management to make the correct management / strategy / weather info decisions :-)

even though, having Ogier as team mate I believe will be enough of a pressure to force him into mistakes. Ogier is not Hirvonen that JML could easily beat and boost his confidence

[bretddog]

even though, having Ogier as team mate I believe will be enough of a pressure to force him into mistakes. Ogier is not Hirvonen that JML could easily beat and boost his confidence

Latvala will be no.2, and when he makes a mistake, he won't have a boss babbling on at every opportunity how he will win the next 4-5 rallies in a row.

[EightGear]

Toyota looks at World Rally return in 2014 - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/06/21/toyota-looks-world-rally-return-2014/)

[Francis44]

Hearing Skoda has submitted the entry of Hanninen for Madeira. Any truth on that?

[DonJippo]

Latvala will be no.2, and when he makes a mistake, he won't have a boss babbling on at every opportunity how he will win the next 4-5 rallies in a row.

I doubt it says in his contract that he is #2 ....

[N.O.T]

I doubt it says in his contract that he is #2 ....

i doubt he even has a contract....

[RS]

I doubt it says in his contract that he is #2 ....

If it exists I hope it says nothing and they just let the drivers get on with it. Malcolm giving Latvala undisputed No.1 status was one of the biggest mistakes he has ever made knowing how mentally fragile he is.

[Francis44]

Personally, I think they would be much better with Sordo. Ogier is flying the mad man flag, someone needs to hold the other one and I dont think Latvala can do that.

[N.O.T]

Sordo should be the obvious choice but maybe Latvalas managers follow the tactic they used to give him the Ford seat...it is hard to go against such tactic.

[tfp]

i doubt he even has a contract....

Thats what I would have said before someone (sporting the Finnish flag, sorry cant remember the name) posted the newspaper article suggesting Ford would pull out of WRC in favour of IRC. Maybe if Ford want out, JML might want to stay competing in the WRC and he is looking for a seat?
It seems a little much of a coincidence that both of these stories appear at the same time!

[tfp]

Latvala concedes WRC title fight - Yahoo! Eurosport UK (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/latvala-concedes-wrc-title-fight-084512340.html)

Hmmm. I think most of us already knew this :dozey:

[jbmarcus21]

#WRC Complete 2012 WRC Season standings after #RallyNZ [driver, manufacturers, SS winners, Power Stage Classements Saison Wrc 2012 (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/classements12.htm)

[N.O.T]

Latvala concedes WRC title fight - Yahoo! Eurosport UK (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/latvala-concedes-wrc-title-fight-084512340.html)

LOL...

[Viking]

Latvala concedes WRC title fight - Yahoo! Eurosport UK (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/latvala-concedes-wrc-title-fight-084512340.html)



Ford team principal Malcolm Wilson said: "I must admit, I haven't looked at that side of things yet, but sure if it stays the same then he's right.


:up: :D

[tfp]

Ford team principal Malcolm Wilson said: "I must admit, I haven't looked at that side of things yet, but sure if it stays the same then he's right.


:up: :D

Very unusual quote from Malcolm, instead of saying how well they have done etc, he is basically saying "We really are in trouble now".

Hats off to him for the honesty :D

[sillyseat]

I doubt it says in his contract that he is #2 ....
Over hearing a conversation that JML was having with a journalist outside of service. Sounded like nothing has been signed but offers have been made? Quotes from JML "when you have a one year contract and you have a bad year its not good" "** team have offered a 2 year deal **** have offered 1" " I can work with anyone" " Malcolm has done a amazing job to make a competitive car with a small budget"

[Rallyper]

So, how long can this go on? I mean the unlucky season so far for Ford?


I think with beginning in NORF everything can turn around. It should, because when did a team have such unluck...? And it can´t go on forever no matter how some of you guys dislike JML, MW...

[N.O.T]

I think it is more due to bad choice of drivers and also the way they handle them rather than bad luck...

[AndyRAC]

You can't keep having bad luck - when it keeps happening, it suggests there is a fundamental problem with the car/team/drivers/management.

[amilk]

I think it is more due to bad choice of drivers and also the way they handle them rather than bad luck...

Agree, after Portugal I said also "lack of luck at Ford" but now.....
Latvala - the learning period was over last year, with the number of WRC starts he has enough experience. But still not able to drive reliable. If he continue like this in the rest of the year his carrear starting to go down. Too risky for MW to build up the next year again with him knowing that the last contracted year will be with Ford. For VW even Mikkelsen ready for 2nd seat.
Solberg - I think he is still capable, even with some stupid mistakes this year.

Solberg /Sordo - too early to speak about but no better choice for MW for 2013. Tanak is the new Latvala. Not possible to finish a rally if in all the corners the back of the car arrive first.

I think Novikov more more capable also for factory seat (Ostberg for sure)

[Psycho!]

Guys just watch Jari's accident in NZ...No mistake from him...Petter took the hard and Sordo as well who said that all their info lead them to hards...All in all. for me is pure bad luck...All the events that ford could have made it are gone almost...Tarmac is coming and as good as fiesta may be they won't reach Loeb....

[amilk]

Guys just watch Jari's accident in NZ...No mistake from him...Petter took the hard and Sordo as well who said that all their info lead them to hards...All in all. for me is pure bad luck...All the events that ford could have made it are gone almost...Tarmac is coming and as good as fiesta may be they won't reach Loeb....

I said the same in Portugal - but bad lack, magic stones, etc always with Latvala? He is overdriving the car a lot, but I'm not sure that with this style he is quicker.

[Plan9]

Has anyone heard about how many Minis there will be in Finland? I hear rumors of 6 but I am not sure of this as Prodrive will not be attending.

[6789]

Guys just watch Jari's accident in NZ...No mistake from him...Petter took the hard and Sordo as well who said that all their info lead them to hards...All in all. for me is pure bad luck...All the events that ford could have made it are gone almost...Tarmac is coming and as good as fiesta may be they won't reach Loeb....
The Hard tyre choice wasn't bad luck, it had been raining off an on for the previous 3 days. In some sections puddles were across the road, so just silly decision imo

[N.O.T]

Has anyone heard about how many Minis there will be in Finland? I hear rumors of 6 but I am not sure of this as Prodrive will not be attending.

where did you hear those rumours ??

[Gard]

The Hard tyre choice wasn't bad luck, it had been raining off an on for the previous 3 days. In some sections puddles were across the road, so just silly decision imo
Agree! they put Petter in front, for securing equal drive comparing to the citroens. so Petter would be in there if wet and JML would need dry to gain from his position. So they ruin that plan by putting on hard tires on Petters car. as I now understand, against Petters advice.

[Barreis]

Who told Solberg to take hard compound on first day?!

[RAS007]

Who told Solberg to take hard compound on first day?!

Malcolm.

On a related note, are Malcolm's days numbered as the Ford boss, or will they just carry on with him no matter what? Or will Ford just pull out of the WRC due to the spectacular lack of success?

[rallyfiend]

Malcolm.

On a related note, are Malcolm's days numbered as the Ford boss, or will they just carry on with him no matter what? Or will Ford just pull out of the WRC due to the spectacular lack of success?

The Ford departure has been rumoured for many years - with each new negotiation to continue seemingly being more and more difficult, with, if rumours are true, less and less money from Ford.
I would say their departure is not a surprise - it's just a question as to whether it happens at the end of 2012, or 2013. I wonder if there is any type of performance related clause in the alleged 2 year contract?

[makinen_fan]

Petter Solberg says Ford will push harder than ever in Finland and that World Rally title race isn't over - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100741)

LOL, i find it amusing how they are still confident of beating Loeb and still find positives to talk about the team....

[Mirek]

They must speak like that. It's part of their job...

[Rallyper]

They must speak like that. It's part of their job...

And what should they say? That the championship is over and we shall only cruise around?

For sure not. It´s only some of you guys thinking it´s over. For sure Seb is the heavy favourite as it looks now, but anything can still happen.

Remembering in 2001 when Richard Burns seemed to be out halfways through the season, and then became world champion in the end.

So let´s hope for the excitement, that Ford will do a good result in NORF. Who doesn´t like it to be so?

[Mirek]

I don't understand why You quote my post when it's in no contradiction to Yours...

[Rallyper]

I don't understand why You quote my post when it's in no contradiction to Yours...

No, contradiction, that´s true, but between the lines there´s no trust in what they say. Didn´t mean to offend you at all.

[tfp]

And what should they say? That the championship is over and we shall only cruise around?

For sure not. It´s only some of you guys thinking it´s over. For sure Seb is the heavy favourite as it looks now, but anything can still happen.

Remembering in 2001 when Richard Burns seemed to be out halfways through the season, and then became world champion in the end.

So let´s hope for the excitement, that Ford will do a good result in NORF. Who doesn´t like it to be so?

Sod the rest of the championship. If Petter is going to win only once this season its got to be the NORF....as we say in these parts....Hawey Solberg, show them youre still a winner!!!

[skarderud]

Petter is also one to beat in GB, but we also have some tarmac and a chertain frenchman on the paper to...

[tfp]

Petter is also one to beat in GB, but we also have some tarmac and a chertain frenchman on the paper to...

It would be good if he could win here, he s the peoples favourite over here aswel as in NZ.

[Plan9]

where did you hear those rumours ??

2 sources; 1) a NZ Herald Drive article covering Prodrive/Mini in NZ and some background.
2) a guy I met who was involved in Rally NZ organization stage side

Personally, I am not reading too much into them as Prodrive have said they are not going to Finland.

[nafpaktos]

Guys i found this (http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/en/2012/06/26/the-sebastien-loeb-column/).It's very intresting.I post it here as news and no as rumour.If someone have post it before sorry in advance.I don't read the foroum every day.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Much respect to a strong family man. I hope to see Loeb stomp fools in LA! I'm such a scrub, I'm totally marking out for this - it worked on me, Redbull! Looking foward to the audience getting a taste of loeb, DS3's and stoked to see Loeb lay it down on US.

[Red bull]

Volkswagen to run only two new Polos in debut World Rally Championship campain in 2013 - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100763?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[EightGear]

Well that sucks....

[Red bull]

Thierry Neuville to compete in Estonia Rally as warm-up for Rally Finland - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100761?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[Allyc85]

Well that sucks....

It does, but considering the state of the WRC we are lucky to be getting 2, let alone 5! :)

[jbmarcus21]

Marcus Grönholm X-Games testing Image (http://bit.ly/xlu4VT)

[makinen_fan]

From Autosport magazine yesterday:

Uncertain Ford future for youngster Tanak

OTT TANAK’S FUTURE WITH THE M-Sport Ford team has been calledinto question after Malcolm Wilsonrefused to confirm he will competeon the next World RallyChampionship round in Finland.
Tanak has endured an accident-plagued start to his first full seasonin a Fiesta RS WRC and his high-speed roll on last weekend’sRally New Zealand has furtherangered Wilson.
“I’m not happy and I’m not impressed with him at the moment,”said Wilson. “I have always been very positive about him and I’ve always told you that he will go [to Finland], but I have to think about things now. It’s just so frustrating.He’d come here and showed good speed, it looked as though he hadturned it around, but I am hugely disappointed with this.”
The 24-year-old Estonian was fighting to stay ahead of ThierryNeuville to keep his fifth place in New Zealand when he crashed.


How can he speak so bad about Tanak. This will demoralise him further. I agree he is not impressive this year, but given that he was tolerating his son for so many years and not said anything near this bad... His attitude will destroy him

[Franky]

I agree he is not impressive this year, but given that he was tolerating his son for so many years and not said anything near this bad... His attitude will destroy him

I wonder how long it will take him to say something like that about Latvala. The two of them have f uped nearly the same amount of rallies.

[Leon]

money money money

[MikeD]

From Autosport magazine yesterday:

Uncertain Ford future for youngster Tanak

OTT TANAK’S FUTURE WITH THE M-Sport Ford team has been calledinto question after Malcolm Wilsonrefused to confirm he will competeon the next World RallyChampionship round in Finland.
Tanak has endured an accident-plagued start to his first full seasonin a Fiesta RS WRC and his high-speed roll on last weekend’sRally New Zealand has furtherangered Wilson.
“I’m not happy and I’m not impressed with him at the moment,”said Wilson. “I have always been very positive about him and I’ve always told you that he will go [to Finland], but I have to think about things now. It’s just so frustrating.He’d come here and showed good speed, it looked as though he hadturned it around, but I am hugely disappointed with this.”
The 24-year-old Estonian was fighting to stay ahead of ThierryNeuville to keep his fifth place in New Zealand when he crashed.


How can he speak so bad about Tanak. This will demoralise him further. I agree he is not impressive this year, but given that he was tolerating his son for so many years and not said anything near this bad... His attitude will destroy him

While I agree with you that if you keep putting the useless crap driver Slowson in a car, it's hard to come with any constructive critism of other drivers, then it has to be said that Tänak has been a massive dissapointment this year. I guess he is putting the pressure on Tänak because he wants him to understand that he needs to put in the results to justify the investment in him. Tänak has only scores 1/3 of Novikov's points and that's not good enough on this level. Maybe Tänak should have driven some of the latest rallies and try and make Top 6-Top 8 to get the experience and the points rather than overdriving to try and prove that he belong in the WRC.

[makinen_fan]

While I agree with you that if you keep putting the useless crap driver Slowson in a car, it's hard to come with any constructive critism of other drivers, then it has to be said that Tänak has been a massive dissapointment this year. I guess he is putting the pressure on Tänak because he wants him to understand that he needs to put in the results to justify the investment in him. Tänak has only scores 1/3 of Novikov's points and that's not good enough on this level. Maybe Tänak should have driven some of the latest rallies and try and make Top 6-Top 8 to get the experience and the points rather than overdriving to try and prove that he belong in the WRC.

I agree with you, I am disappointed with him as well. But what do you expect from a driver with just a year in S2000 and half in a WRC car? Novikov has done a full year in WRC and a nearly full with Citroen in 2009. And also I see Dennis being as a co driver as a great influence for him, that one of the reasons he is driving well and controlled this year. Tanak I believe he needs a bit more time to develop and not rubbish him with his comments, Jari Matti and Petter deserves more of such talk

[Barreis]

Latvala, Wilson and Tanak can go.

[RS]

From Autosport magazine yesterday:

Uncertain Ford future for youngster Tanak

OTT TANAK’S FUTURE WITH THE M-Sport Ford team has been calledinto question after Malcolm Wilsonrefused to confirm he will competeon the next World RallyChampionship round in Finland.
Tanak has endured an accident-plagued start to his first full seasonin a Fiesta RS WRC and his high-speed roll on last weekend’sRally New Zealand has furtherangered Wilson.
“I’m not happy and I’m not impressed with him at the moment,”said Wilson. “I have always been very positive about him and I’ve always told you that he will go [to Finland], but I have to think about things now. It’s just so frustrating.He’d come here and showed good speed, it looked as though he hadturned it around, but I am hugely disappointed with this.”
The 24-year-old Estonian was fighting to stay ahead of ThierryNeuville to keep his fifth place in New Zealand when he crashed.




I wouldn't like to normally make a statement such as this but I am beginning to wonder if Malcolm really has some problems in the brain department. No matter what Latvala does he still wants to have his babies yet he berates a young and inexperienced driver who makes some mistakes, well surprise surprise.

[TyPat107]

It's just laying the ground work so he can take Ott out of the car and put Matt back in one.

[N.O.T]

It's just laying the ground work so he can take Ott out of the car and put Matt back in one.

I do not think so...if tanak pays he can have the car. The problem is that tanak this year is very very dissapointing when it comes to consistency he seems to make mistakes all the time no matter if he fights or just cruising...

In case of latvala he has some strong backing all these years who probably pay for his drives and he can have any car he wants despite his mistakes...maybe that is why VW wants him...no one will say no to another source of money.

[RAS007]

From Autosport magazine yesterday:

Uncertain Ford future for youngster Tanak

OTT TANAK’S FUTURE WITH THE M-Sport Ford team has been calledinto question after Malcolm Wilsonrefused to confirm he will competeon the next World RallyChampionship round in Finland.
Tanak has endured an accident-plagued start to his first full seasonin a Fiesta RS WRC and his high-speed roll on last weekend’sRally New Zealand has furtherangered Wilson.
“I’m not happy and I’m not impressed with him at the moment,”said Wilson. “I have always been very positive about him and I’ve always told you that he will go [to Finland], but I have to think about things now. It’s just so frustrating.He’d come here and showed good speed, it looked as though he hadturned it around, but I am hugely disappointed with this.”
The 24-year-old Estonian was fighting to stay ahead of ThierryNeuville to keep his fifth place in New Zealand when he crashed.


How can he speak so bad about Tanak. This will demoralise him further. I agree he is not impressive this year, but given that he was tolerating his son for so many years and not said anything near this bad... His attitude will destroy him


This really is a farcical outburst from Malcolm, given his indulgence of his talentless son and Latvala's worrying inability to stay on the road. I wonder if the interviewer caught Malcolm in a particularly bad mood, or perhaps he is (unfairly) taking out his frustration from a terribly disappointing season on Tanak. Whatver the case may be, there are far, far more qualified candidates in the Ford organisation to be the target of Malcolm's ire.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I agree with MikeD.

Wilson is being silly but yes at the same time he's pushing Tanak like he did with Latvala. Latvala got his cool back and became consistent but now... Not doing so good.

Novikov is a quiet one, he's doing pretty well and he'll keep doing so too! I think it's Denis who is teaching him the ropes and Novikov is someone to look out for in the future! Does anyone else agree?

Can someone answer me why Novikov kept the Ford and not drive anymore with the Citroen? Would he be doing better in the DS3 then in the Fiesta? Had anyone thought of this too? Yes others are doing errors in rallies to his advantage and he's not making stage times, but Novikov IS keeping it up.

[rallyfiend]

He who pays the bills can say what he likes.

Clearly Ott isn't listening and needs a kick in ass via the media as well.

[Bazza2541]

He who pays the bills can say what he likes.

Clearly Ott isn't listening and needs a kick in ass via the media as well.

Finally. Someone actually gets what's going on.
As long as Papa Wilson is signing the cheques, he gets to put whoever he wants in the cars and gets to critique those drivers however he desires too.
This is reality, something a few of the recent posters on this thread don't seem to recognise.
Rant over.

[Rallyper]

I think some of you guys have to think things over a couple of times again.

Tanak is still in development, like Novikov was a couple of years ago. Do you remember his "consistancy" by then?

Latvala, as someone mentioned has money behind him paying for his faults (I guess) and also he is and has been always very fast. Even winning some events. Have you forgotten that?

Novikov in Ford is much cheaper for him, I guess. And the Ford is as good as the Citroen. That we know already. Especially as I happen to know that the fastest Ford guys behind JML and Petter are getting equal engines and I do think suspension in NORF.

So rounding up this quote, I´d say: have some patience with Mr Tanak maybe one year or more and he´ll be a very fast guy, as all the other promising youngsters.

[RAS007]

Finally. Someone actually gets what's going on.
As long as Papa Wilson is signing the cheques, he gets to put whoever he wants in the cars and gets to critique those drivers however he desires too.
This is reality, something a few of the recent posters on this thread don't seem to recognise.
Rant over.

Isn't Tanak paying for his drive? And even if he isn't, even Malcolm has to realise the hypocrisy of singling Tanak out for criticism, against the backdrop of Latvala and #1 son.

[janvanvurpa]

While I agree with you that if you keep putting the useless crap driver Slowson in a car, it's hard to come with any constructive critism of other drivers, then it has to be said that Tänak has been a massive dissapointment this year. I guess he is putting the pressure on Tänak because he wants him to understand that he needs to put in the results to justify the investment in him. Tänak has only scores 1/3 of Novikov's points and that's not good enough on this level. Maybe Tänak should have driven some of the latest rallies and try and make Top 6-Top 8 to get the experience and the points rather than overdriving to try and prove that he belong in the WRC.

Obviously Malcolm needs a 5 year plan for Ott. :rolleyes:

[Barreis]

Just watched Germany 2008 and saw so many Latvala's mistakes. Any other driver should be replaced but not him.

[bluuford]

Just watched Germany 2008 and saw so many Latvala's mistakes. Any other driver should be replaced but not him.

Yeah, remember Novikov on his first year with WRC. I think he managed to crash twice in one stage in NORF and he had more crashes in one year than I have fingers in my two hands. He did 8 rallies with WRC he scored 4 points and retired four times because of the accident. look where he is now?

Remember the first season by Ogier? many crashes, including two crashes in the same stage at Cyprus if i am not mistaken? and his best rally was rally nr 8 when he was 2nd in Greece (well, Villagra was fourth and Rautenbach was fifth, so, not very good list of drivers). and it was his only podium in his first year. he had two 5th places 2 6th places one 7th place, Once he was 10th, 17th and 26th + 4 non finishes (superally was already in force and those 7h, 17th and 26th position have been acuired thanks to superally as well). basically he had some problems in 7 rallies out of 13 rallies. Look where he is now?

Tänak has done 8 rallies in WRC as well (as much as Novikov did during the fist year). He should not compete with Novikov because he has much less experience in WRC but he still competes with his teammate. This is the bad thing.
Basically it was his first bigger crash in WRC. All the others have been small mistakes and sometimes a bit unlucky as well. GB=good results, Monte = OK result, Sweden = a few snow excurisons, Mexico = really good rally, Portugal went wide and got stuck on the rocks, Argentina he got stuck on a lonely junction and could not get back before the OTL, Acropolis off road excurion with some damaged suspension components. His main aim has been to collect experience. He has covered most of the SS distances so far. Basically he has fulfilled his task close to 100%

I think that we are a bit spoiled by his superb results in SWRC car and with GrN car. Give the boy a 2-3 more rallies without too much pressure and you will see the results.
Sometimes little punishment works for him. Last year Markko did not let him drive in Rally Estonia because of his crash in Greece. What happened?
3rd in NORF in SWRC, win in Germany and France in SWRC :-)

[Barreis]

Well this guys were not full factory drivers or 2nd drivers as Latvala. Still remember '97 when Schwarz was fired from Wilson after one bad rally and replaced with KKK. Not good for the sport.

[tolis]

@bluuford: I agree, but Novikov has more money than Tanak! ;)

[Barreis]

From all new drivers Ogier is only one worth of works signing.

[AndyRAC]

The evidence would suggest that Ford/M-Sport are hopeless at managing drivers.

[Barreis]

Whole team is on drugs. :D
World Rally Championship - News - Solberg: title dream not over (http://www.wrc.com/news/solberg-title-dream-not-over/?fid=16996)

[tfp]

Whole team is on drugs. :D
World Rally Championship - News - Solberg: title dream not over (http://www.wrc.com/news/solberg-title-dream-not-over/?fid=16996)

I think they have to say that - they wouldn't want him to say its all over already. Petter will know the seasons over in his head.

I'm a bit disapointed with Tanak, I did expect better from him. I still say out of the three ford "B" team drivers (Novikov, Ostberg, Tanak) Ostberg is the boss.

[bluuford]

I still say out of the three ford "B" team drivers (Novikov, Ostberg, Tanak) Ostberg is the boss.
Indeed! He should be! look again whom do you compare?
Mads has 44 starts in WRC with WRCar and over fifty starts in National events in a WRCar;-)
Do you remember that he was shown in a show named smth like "sporting accidents." He crashed his Subaru many times and they advised him to change the sport :-P

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgBVLJsLThQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Broken Leg, ribs, and apparently some internal bleeding.

I am in favor of GRC and love that at least some form of Rallycross is getting exposure in the States, but that metal ramp is BULL****!! At the very least it needs to be dirt. Nascar wont allow dirt on their tracks, but at X? Why not have it be dirt like all other years?

Edit: one should note that marcus has been quite vocal against the jump.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Update:
Apparently he "only" broke his ankle in multiple places, but surely better than previously reported. Sorry, I know this isn't wrc, but I thought people would be interested.

Best,

[bluuford]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgBVLJsLThQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Broken Leg, ribs, and apparently some internal bleeding.

I am in favor of GRC and love that at least some form of Rallycross is getting exposure in the States, but that metal ramp is BULL****!! At the very least it needs to be dirt. Nascar wont allow dirt on their tracks, but at X? Why not have it be dirt like all other years?

Edit: one should note that marcus has been quite vocal against the jump.

The one who created this jump should apply for Ford development department for crash dummy position..

[Juha_Koo]

Well, now it has happened then... I've always seen those stupidly huge US rallycross jumps as serious accident waiting to happen. I've thought that even those dirt ones have certain serious risks involved, but a metal ramp?!?!?! For f*cks sake... :mad:

[bluuford]

Can't FIA take Loeb his license for competing in a not-FIA-event? I think it is/was forbidden to participate in events not organized by FIA? ;)
They should be allowed to take part in all events that are approved by local ASN at least. Does not need to be FIA event.

[Viking]

Well, now it has happened then... I've always seen those stupidly huge US rallycross jumps as serious accident waiting to happen. I've thought that even those dirt ones have certain serious risks involved, but a metal ramp?!?!?! For f*cks sake... :mad:

Apparently Isachsen and Grönholm (with the other drivers behind them) said to the organizers that they would not drive if they didn’t do anything to the gap.
So the jump will now be “bridged”. :up:

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Reason, one of life's great virtues.

[Red bull]

NOVIKOV KNOCKING AT VW GATE??? PYeklada Google (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.i-motorsport.cz/)

[Gregor-y]

I was not impressed by the staff after that crash. No one even goes near the car until well after it's smoking and the driver pulls himself out. Looks like there wasn't a fire extinguisher handy, either.

[Plan9]

Novikov's crew had Dmack branding on their uniforms in NZ. Maybe he will switch from Michelin in the future?

[Maxi]

Gronholm crashed at rally cross practice and was knocked unconscious.


Edit: He was brought to the hospital and is awake and alert and undergoing some tests.

[6789]

Gronholm crashed at rally cross practice and was knocked unconscious.


Edit: He was brought to the hospital and is awake and alert and undergoing some tests.

Hope he's ok, does that mean he is out of the whole event?

[Maxi]

it depends if he gets cleared by the doctors. I hope he can compete because i want to see a fight with Loeb!

[Rally Hokkaido]

Gronholm crashed at rally cross practice and was knocked unconscious.


Edit: He was brought to the hospital and is awake and alert and undergoing some tests.

I heard he had to be cut from the car, which hit a concrete block sticking out at apex of a corner. Can someone confirm his injuries are not serious? And did the design of the course contribute to the seriousness of the incident (again!) ?

[Rallyper]

N.O.T please give some comments of yours of this crazy spectacle going on in US! (This is serious)

[TyPat107]

Just watched the incar and it had nothing to do with the jump. He landed off the jump and turned in early on the next turn and it looks like part of the barrier is just barely sticking out and he was way too close and caught it. Sorry I tried to find a link to post it but it didn't work.

Hope Marcus recovers quickly. Also wonder if Citroen would consider pulling the plug on loeb driving. I doubt they see any benefit from risking Sebs health for a weekend when he is looking at another championship.

[logic]

do you have a link to the crash?

[TyPat107]

Here is the best I can do. Why Gap jumps are stupid (http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,67701)

The vid of Marcus is near the bottom.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3uTZh-iml8

Note sure about being cut from the car.

Regarding Toomas, photographers and media are not allowed to approach the car. The help did seem to come a bit late, but the context of space is not known, nor the relation of crews to the ramp.

It is getting rather embarrassing, the safety of this event....

[TyPat107]

Oh yeah cut out of the car. Pictures here. All sizes | Rallycross photos © Jakub QBA Nitka/ERC24.COM | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/erc24/7476721436/sizes/o/in/set-72157630318401326/)

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

What the ****?

[Franky]

Oh yeah cut out of the car. Pictures here. All sizes | Rallycross photos © Jakub QBA Nitka/ERC24.COM | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/erc24/7476721436/sizes/o/in/set-72157630318401326/)

Were they thinking "Oh, let's make a cabrio!"?

[makinen_fan]

it does not look like a huge crash, not even the left corner of car is not destroyed... why did they need to cut the whole rood off...

[WRCfan]

The second driver injured at X-Games!? All the rallies he did, all those dangerous roads, and the monkeys who organise this competition make a course so dangerous (dumb obstacles on racing lines and jumps), which could potentially kill a driver. They don't deserve the participation of drivers like Marcus and Seb if they are going to run the event like a bunch of circus chimps.

[6789]

Here's some footage - terrible crash, looks like he tried to take a little bit too much off the corner.


http://youtu.be/m3uTZh-iml8

[vkangas]

it does not look like a huge crash, not even the left corner of car is not destroyed... why did they need to cut the whole rood off...
Marcus was unconscious after the crash so better to cut the roof off than try to bend him out not knowing internal injuries. They did the right thing.

[Barreis]

Maybe he's too old for this. Didn't look like nasty crash, he had much worse crashes in WRC.

[Lousada]

Marcus was unconscious after the crash so better to cut the roof off than try to bend him out not knowing internal injuries. They did the right thing.

Rallycross cars like I think all FIA approved competition cars are designed that the driver can be extracted while still in his seat, without needing to cut the car. Apparently the problem was that the in the accident the doors were crushed shut. Also I do not think the rescue crews are very experienced in rallycross. In both accidents the Ford mechanics were way earlier on the scene than any marshal or doctor....

[N.O.T]

N.O.T please give some comments of yours of this crazy spectacle going on in US! (This is serious)

I do not mind rallycross, i actually like it a bit... i do not like they way it is marketed in the US though... They seem to focus mostly on circus antics like gap jumps and other stupid meaningless things rather than the driving though, which is a pity since they only manage to attract rednecks with reduced mental capability as fans...the same people who like those drift videos of block.

hope marcus is ok... Mr Loeb created some serious mental focus problems through the years to anyone who challenged him... his presence alone is enough to cause focus problems.

[jbmarcus21]

drama for Marcus.. gutted ... :( ((

[Gregor-y]

Regarding Toomas, photographers and media are not allowed to approach the car. The help did seem to come a bit late, but the context of space is not known, nor the relation of crews to the ramp.
If all those people at the inside of the jump are media then were there no marshals or safety crew at the jump at all? The jump's not going anywhere so having to drive an oversize pickup truck there after the wreck seems like poor planning.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

If all those people at the inside of the jump are media then were there no marshals or safety crew at the jump at all? The jump's not going anywhere so having to drive an oversize pickup truck there after the wreck seems like poor planning.

Agreed. I would like to know where the help came from, though. If they had to navigate an odd route due to track layout and what not - which again, is still poor planning.

Regarding Marcus's accident. I always tell people, the problem isn't speed itself, it's that sudden, abrupt stop that gets you. 85mph to 0 in .1 seconds is pretty violent.

[TyPat107]

So I had to turn on the tv and granted tanner foist is actually pretty quick with rallycross, but Loeb just humiliated the field in his heat.

[logic]

So I had to turn on the tv and granted tanner foist is actually pretty quick with rallycross, but Loeb just humiliated the field in his heat.
Also Chrissy needs to shut up.

[N.O.T]

can see the event live somewhere ? or is it over ?

[N.O.T]

Summer X Day 4 on the New Livestream. Live. Redefined. (http://new.livestream.com/xgames/summerXday4)

is this live or not ?

[logic]

Summer X Games Los Angeles 2012 XCast - ESPN - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/action/xgames/summer/2012/xcast)

This is the one i am watching

[N.O.T]

it is the same nice...

are the races over now or we have more ??

[logic]

I think they have some more , i only caught 1 just now where loeb ran away with it.

[TyPat107]

There are still a few more heats but they show skate boarding between. It sucks... But it's how they get strictly rally people to tune in the whole time

[N.O.T]

how the race works ? the winners of each heat move to the final ?

[TyPat107]

Yes exactly 4 heats

[TyPat107]

Also Chrissy needs to shut up.

Chrissy? Is it chrissy beavis? Can't say I am paying attention to the speaking.

[TyPat107]

Heat 3 for skate boarding is up so rally start again after commercial

[TyPat107]

Back on. Don't care who gets this one as long as Deegan doesn't. That guy is a douche.

[logic]

Chrissy? Is it chrissy beavis? Can't say I am paying attention to the speaking.

Yep it be her.

[N.O.T]

Do we have any info when the final is going to be on ??

[TyPat107]

All rallycross ( final heat, 2 semis, final) will be over within the next hour and a half. But when the actual final is will be a crap shoot. My guess is they will end the program with it. It is what they have done in the past.

[logic]

Next heat is on now.

[TyPat107]

Awesome 4 cars in the wall!!!! I bet travis is out

[logic]

This is funny a hell!!

[TyPat107]

Pastrana whining. Scott had the tires locked up there was nothing he could do

[MartijnS]

Is there a decent stream with the real footage, or only this behind the scenes stuff?

[rallye-vid]

try this one: ESPN Live Stream Online (http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/49039/1/watch-espn.html)

[TyPat107]

Is there a decent stream with the real footage, or only this behind the scenes stuff?

Sorry I am not sure I am watching on tv.

[MartijnS]

Thanks, looks good ;)

[rallye-vid]

ur welcome ;)

[tolis]

Loeeeb!
X Games 18 Heat 2 Sebastien Loeb Wins Foust Lasek Verdier - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn6lXOmqAUo)

[tfp]

Indeed! He should be! look again whom do you compare?
Mads has 44 starts in WRC with WRCar and over fifty starts in National events in a WRCar;-)
Do you remember that he was shown in a show named smth like "sporting accidents." He crashed his Subaru many times and they advised him to change the sport :-P

I guess so, those two have had way less experience compared to Mads. I still think he has more talent than Tanak and Neuville though ;)


Loeeeb!
X Games 18 Heat 2 Sebastien Loeb Wins Foust Lasek Verdier - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn6lXOmqAUo)

This gives a much better perspective of Loebs neat and tidy driving style, Foust was understeering loads and Loeb was keeping clean lines.

I have never been a big follower of GRC but if it is all live and you can get streaming for free...Well, I might just climb on board :)

[stefanvv]

Loeeeb!
X Games 18 Heat 2 Sebastien Loeb Wins Foust Lasek Verdier - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn6lXOmqAUo)

8th times word rally champion. Can this be coincidence?

[Barreis]

Very nice show for large crowd.

[EightGear]

Looool, two jumpstarts, and cars not even driving of the line. Only in America. :D

[N.O.T]

Nobody can compare to marketing and promotion to the US...

Now all we need to just to actually put some real drivers in the cars...

[eestlane]

the rally girl is retarded. she dosent know anything

[N.O.T]

the final is about to start... i think....

[N.O.T]

LAL...

Loeb just ridicules those little boys... it is sad.

[focus206]

hmmm... so Gronholm didn't start because of the crash? too bad :\

[logic]

This is a farce , the americans have hillbillized another sport.

[N.O.T]

This is a farce , the americans have hillbillized another sport.

well you expected something defferent ?? the event is part of the X games which are basically an ode to hillbillsm

[stefanvv]

LAL...

Loeb just ridicules those little boys... it is sad.

That would happen if Gronholm isn't there, sad too.

[N.O.T]

Poor americans....

Loeb showed no mercy....

[AndyRAC]

Loeb doing what he does best. Winning....and with consummate ease......

[TyPat107]

I love that travis threw out the "challenge" but was no where to be seen.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Redneck, shi!!ty a$$ American, hillbilly Gherid checking in. Nice to see loeb stomping it down and getting some X-posure in the US. Really unfortunate that Marcus and Toomas weren't there to stomp it down, as well. Pretty much as I expected; if loeb got out, he wasn't getting caught.

Travis NEVER whines. Please, don't allow yourself to live in a world based on false pretense's just because talking **** about American's makes you feel like a superior human being.

It was mentioned that GRC will expand to Brazil, Barcelona and other places outside the states; hope I heard that right. They really need to address some safety issues. People should realize this is only the second season ever of the GRC, and what, the eigth or so event ever? They came out of no where, too. Having attended the second GRC event last year, which I was VERY disappointed in, it's crazy seeing it on national TV now.

Gonn' run my 4x4 in teh mud naw.' Then eat' mi some craw'dad and only turn lefts' taking mi wiv to work at the stripper club.

[xavier]

Just watch the final of the X Games.

I found it hilarious that they display at the end:


Sebastian Loeb
73 Wins in Rally
(1 in X-Games)


ROFL

[janvanvurpa]

Just watch the final of the X Games.

I found it hilarious that they display at the end:


ROFL

I wonder how much he was paid to play his role in the farce.?

[janvanvurpa]

Redneck, shi!!ty a$$ American, hillbilly Gherid checking in.

Gonn' run my 4x4 in teh mud naw.' Then eat' mi some craw'dad and only turn lefts' taking mi wiv to work at the stripper club.

Weeeeeelllll sheeeeeut...somebody's gotta work since you don't. All them boys going be gittin all likkered up for the 4th of Joooo-lai and nothing gits good ol boys going like likker, and celebratin guns and some silicone enhance boobie bouncin...

X-Games may have been won by a proissy french surrender money but is it over?
Is it over?
In the epic documentary of Acedemia "Animal House" it was said better than I kin:

Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): Hey! What's all this laying around stuff? Why are you all still laying around here for?
Stork (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0448469/): What the hell are we supposed to do, ya moron? We're all expelled. There's nothing to fight for anymore.
D-Day (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569226/): [to Bluto] Let it go. War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001513/): [to Boon] Germans?
Boon (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0726200/): Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard of something to say]
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): The tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[Bluto runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): What the **** happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001513/): Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic... but absolutely right. We gotta take these *******s. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569226/): [stands up] Yeah, I agree. Let's go get 'em.
Boon (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0726200/): Let's do it.
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): [shouting] "Let's do it"!


The South will rise again!!!
Rednecks of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but...
I forgit.

[xavier]

Surely it was worth his time (and that's good for him btw and for image of rally: Seb showed what top level driver can do).

On the other hand, let's not forget that anything that can promote Rally is not a bad thing.
I am living in the US and yes, the pure style of rallying will have a hard time to break through to reach anything close to a good audience, but let's keep our hopes up.

Yes Rally cross is as close to normal rally as a 1500 m race is to a 400 m one. I never watch it before today, surely a good start seems to be 90% of the skill. I wish Seb would have got a bad start so we could have seen some action. If he get the 1st corner in the lead, that's pretty much over.

However, i would not call the X game farcical: it's a different sport, but it suits well what is expected in the US: Action pack event, very quick results.

It is a pity, but no one in the US will tune their TV for a 3 days long event with 30 minutes break in between action. You can (and will) get people on the stage but it will not make it for TV and here that what make you or break you.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Weeeeeelllll sheeeeeut...somebody's gotta work since you don't. All them boys going be gittin all likkered up for the 4th of Joooo-lai and nothing gits good ol boys going like likker, and celebratin guns and some silicone enhance boobie bouncin...


LOL, no joke, some guys in my neighborhood are blowing off some HUGE mortars right now. The house is literally shaking. Always found it odd how we celebrate a war, of which many lives were lost, by blowing off representations of the bombs and mortars that killed so many....but I guess we gotta keep supporting China's economy, too.

Animal House is CLASSIC!! ^_^

Once again I go waaaay off topic....man, I need to work on fixing that.....

[janvanvurpa]

Wait, what happened.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Haha, I'm being obnoxious.

Was out with family for the day so I only saw the finals. Re-watching the heats, just noticed loebs number was 72; cute. Also didn't know he used to be a gymnast. Was he competitive? Even more respect for the man,now. Gymnasts are studs.

[6789]

http://youtu.be/GZU8T6NbkgU

[Maxi]

What's the significance of 72 for Loeb?

[6789]

Number of WRC wins I think

[bluuford]

What's the significance of 72 for Loeb?
Loeb has won 72 WRC ralllies

[makinen_fan]

WOW!!! FIA has made a lot of progress in the promotion side of things.... FIA WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2012/Pages/wrc-ebu.aspx)

but still they try to make us believe that audience is higher than last year...

[stefanvv]

WOW!!! FIA has made a lot of progress in the promotion side of things.... FIA WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2012/Pages/wrc-ebu.aspx)

but still they try to make us believe that audience is higher than last year...
That's good news, I like especially the "online video streaming" part.

[DonJippo]

but still they try to make us believe that audience is higher than last year...

Where in the press release are they saying that? If you mean wrc.com page views then maybe you can provide the facts that show FIA is wrong in their statement?

[dimviii]

Olivier Quesnel rejoint la Direction Générale du groupe de Jacques Nicolet, JN Holding « OAK Racing (http://www.oak-racing.com/news/olivier-quesnel-rejoint-la-direction-generale-du-groupe-de-jacques-nicolet-jn-holding)

[HaCo]

Nissan considering what they will do in autosport next 5 years: http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=7833

Verstuurd van mijn MT15i met Tapatalk

[tolis]

Nice video: 10 years of the World Rally Championship - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95cqUlkMWJs)

[Allyc85]

And that is why we love and stick by the WRC, great video :)

[RAS007]

Nice video: 10 years of the World Rally Championship - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95cqUlkMWJs)

Really terrific video. I hope the WRC can return to something like that again.

[N.O.T]

Really terrific video. I hope the WRC can return to something like that again.

what is different nowadays ??

[rallyfiend]

Really terrific video. I hope the WRC can return to something like that again.

I don't get it?

Some of that vision is from the last few years!

[makinen_fan]

Really terrific video. I hope the WRC can return to something like that again.

really? rallying is very much the same these days, not much different apart from less manuf (ok and uglier cars)

this is video with how I hope wrc can return to! but probably I am only dreaming right?

GROUP B in FINLAND 85-86 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzkFSKyUKpU&feature=youtu.be)

[cali]

really? rallying is very much the same these days, not much different apart from less manuf (ok and uglier cars)

this is video with how I hope wrc can return to! but probably I am only dreaming right?

GROUP B in FINLAND 85-86 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzkFSKyUKpU&feature=youtu.be)
Actually this is what I do not want to see in WRC. Group B cars were horrible to drive and apart from great sound, they just do not appeal to me. I prefer these tidy modern cars anyday, specially S2000 cars are most of the time a joy to watch. It's not just all about power ... so no thanks!

[darkstar]

i totally agree with cali!

[Mirek]

Those days can never return. Nowadays a common road car has better suspension and tyres than those overpowered gr.B cars had. As You said they had great sound and huge power but compared to modern cars they were so slow in corners and braking, it was impossible to take a handbrake turn on asphalt so they either could try hairpins very very slowly or they had to reverse.

[Josti]

Wow, an era isn't just defined by what cars are driving. The championship really ment something in those days, it was as high profile as F1, and every single event stood out from the other.

If you ask the drivers, those cars were actually incredible to drive, not horrible. Lancia 037, damnit that's so much better than a DS3 WRC.

[Juha_Koo]

If you ask the drivers, those cars were actually incredible to drive, not horrible. Lancia 037, damnit that's so much better than a DS3 WRC.

:D :D

I hope your kidding... High profile was mainly due to historical context, what wasn't "bigger" back then than nowdays? Boeing 707 was a mean machine, produced helluva lot of noice, smoke, etc. but modern-day Airbus' kicks it in every feature...

Gr.B was a phenomena, yes. There's absolutely no denying it. But wishing to get those times back always makes me put the person saying it to category "rally fan" instead of "rally enthusiastic". :) One interesting fact: back in 1985 season the average winning margin was 5,1 minutes, even with Safari and Cote D'Ivoire results excluded. Now, if we look last season (2011), the average winning margin was 0,7 minutes! I wonder which is more interesting to follow - from the perspective of even results. With gr.B, there's a problem that memories have grown sweeter with time.

[stefanvv]

Yes, modern rally cars are much more technology advanced, faster in corners and SAFER, but none of them could beat that experience - 1985 1000 Lakes Rally Finland - Audi Quattro S1 Only - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-fjjjyOKFQ). This should stay in history anyway, too dangerous.

[RAS007]

what is different nowadays ??

The majority of the footage in that video appeared to be from 2000-2005. During that period, there were more manufacturers, more drivers capable of winning and therefore more competition and more excitement, 2 things which are largely missing from the WRC, and have been for some time.

[Josti]

:D :D

I hope your kidding... High profile was mainly due to historical context, what wasn't "bigger" back then than nowdays? Boeing 707 was a mean machine, produced helluva lot of noice, smoke, etc. but modern-day Airbus' kicks it in every feature...

I mean in the way of public, media and manufacturer interest it was bigger, let alone most rallies were run nationwide.



Gr.B was a phenomena, yes. There's absolutely no denying it. But wishing to get those times back always makes me put the person saying it to category "rally fan" instead of "rally enthusiastic". :) One interesting fact: back in 1985 season the average winning margin was 5,1 minutes, even with Safari and Cote D'Ivoire results excluded. Now, if we look last season (2011), the average winning margin was 0,7 minutes! I wonder which is more interesting to follow - from the perspective of even results. With gr.B, there's a problem that memories have grown sweeter with time.

Of course we shouldn't go back to Group B, it is a phenomena your right, something unique that's irreplaceble and can't be replicated (it wouldn't even make sense). But it stands alone so strong because it was radically different than what was there before and again what was after. And those statistics don't say much, rallies were longer and cars weren't as reliable as now, it's not to be compared.

[stefanvv]

[quote="Josti"]I mean in the way of public, media...
And that probably caused most of the troubles. Some people had became really crasy not realising what danger put themselves rushing in front of those beasts. It is hard to control this situation.

[vkangas]

Let's start some rumours.... Tommi Mäkinen spotted at Finland's biggest BMW/Mini dealer... ;)

[vkangas]

Next "rumor" will be Carlos Sainz at the supermarket? Not really going anywhere with these things, also a former WRC champion has a life and needs to buy a car at some point... ;)
Shhh... this is my test for how long it will take that MTV3 has rumours about Tommi's contract with Mini... ;)

[tfp]

:D :D

I hope your kidding... High profile was mainly due to historical context, what wasn't "bigger" back then than nowdays? Boeing 707 was a mean machine, produced helluva lot of noice, smoke, etc. but modern-day Airbus' kicks it in every feature...

Gr.B was a phenomena, yes. There's absolutely no denying it. But wishing to get those times back always makes me put the person saying it to category "rally fan" instead of "rally enthusiastic". :) One interesting fact: back in 1985 season the average winning margin was 5,1 minutes, even with Safari and Cote D'Ivoire results excluded. Now, if we look last season (2011), the average winning margin was 0,7 minutes! I wonder which is more interesting to follow - from the perspective of even results. With gr.B, there's a problem that memories have grown sweeter with time.

I see where you're coming from, but I think the bigger winning time - margin was to do with the manufacturers constantly trying to out do each other, by making their cars even more crazy every year.

I think the cars from Grp B were way more spectacular and had a lot more road presence, seeing a big, wide arch Quattro thundering through the stages sideways with deafening dump valves, kicking gravel everywhere and spitting flames at you when they went past is a lot better than seeing go kart-ish fiestas and DS3's.
I mean if someone offered me the choice between a 'Grale and a new Fiesta, I know which one I'd choose :D

Good debate though :up:

[Rallyper]

I don't get it?

Some of that vision is from the last few years!

Some yes, about 5% maybe.

I agree to those who want those years back. It was a big difference from today. Much of that because of there where more drivers competing of the podiums back then. And the drivers where personalitys. Just the guys you want to see and hear comments from at stageends.

With more manus and also three car teams allowed we should make it possible to have more drivers (not any paying ones) and hopefully they all can compete for podiums.

[Francis44]

Not sure if mentioned already, but some interesting news around the PSA group.

Apparently even the French state is considering to buy a part of the company. An article I read today states that they need to cut the budget as soon as possible.

In the last year PSA shares went down 72%.

This will probably have an effect on the rally programme. Many discussions about Citroen exit and Peugeot entry, however, after these reports, I think both may stay out of motorsport for a long time.

[bluuford]

Not sure if mentioned already, but some interesting news around the PSA group.

Apparently even the French state is considering to buy a part of the company. An article I read today states that they need to cut the budget as soon as possible.

In the last year PSA shares went down 72%.

This will probably have an effect on the rally programme. Many discussions about Citroen exit and Peugeot entry, however, after these reports, I think both may stay out of motorsport for a long time.

I dont think they are considering to leave the WRC. It is pretty good marketing for them, not too costly and very long line of customers with S2000 cars (whic is like free exposure, no customers pay to expose their cars all around Europe) and now with DS3 2WD cars + old WRCars + they have good sponsor support as well.

They shut down their Le Mans because it was pretty big waste of money for them. Strage looking cars, no customers, normal media exposure only for 24 hours per year and constantly ridiculed by Audi = not worth of their money.

One thing I remember from my Economy lecture that when your sales go down then do not cut your costs on your marketing costs just rethink your strategy (Better to cut the number of staff and their working hours). PSA has done it very well. A few years ago their customer numbers were not so great. Look what has happened now? how many DS3 2WD and 207 S2000 cars you can see in in each rally? Excellent strategy. They just need to reconsider their strategy outside Europe.

[MJW]

Back in the early to mid 1980's Peugoet were in a very bad way economically and sales wise, some say that the WRC programme with the 205T16 was what saved the company. I think Citroen will step down from the top class and remain with R2 DS3 2 wd and Peugeot come in with 208 model.

[AndyRAC]

Back in the early to mid 1980's Peugoet were in a very bad way economically and sales wise, some say that the WRC programme with the 205T16 was what saved the company. I think Citroen will step down from the top class and remain with R2 DS3 2 wd and Peugeot come in with 208 model.

And Citroen leaving allows Loeb to depart stage left. Job done....unless he finishes at the end of this year.

[RAS007]

And Citroen leaving allows Loeb to depart stage left. Job done....unless he finishes at the end of this year.

Couple of things: how likey is it Loeb will quit at the end of the year? It must be getting fairly boring for him, with the total lack of competition. Also, any chance we will ever see Loeb in a different car, or is it Citroen or nothing for him?

[AndyRAC]

Couple of things: how likey is it Loeb will quit at the end of the year? It must be getting fairly boring for him, with the total lack of competition. Also, any chance we will ever see Loeb in a different car, or is it Citroen or nothing for him?

I doubt you will see Loeb Rallying a non Citroen. However, he has driven a 911 GT3 and a Oreca-Nissan LMP2 for Sebastien Loeb Racing this year. And that is were his future lies, whether that is next year, who knows? After his off in Portugal, he spent the rest of the weekend at Paul Ricard for the ELMS race; which made me wonder whether he would walk away at the end of this year. Now, I think he might stay for 2013, and try for 10 in a row.

[N.O.T]

LOL

People are taking Loebs racing career far more seriously than Loeb does...

eventually he will retire from the sport and all the phychologically scarred people are going to be happy.... you just have to be patient.

You do not have any kind of future at 40 years of age at any motorsport apart from the one you know well...

[Barreis]

When he retires all loseres will be happy. :D

[N.O.T]

Loeb should first lose a championship then retire...

[focus206]

Loeb should first lose a championship then retire...

yes it's my biggest hope, retiring after being beaten would be perfect for a champion like him :)

[Macd]

Couple of things: how likey is it Loeb will quit at the end of the year? It must be getting fairly boring for him, with the total lack of competition. Also, any chance we will ever see Loeb in a different car, or is it Citroen or nothing for him?

A man at M-Sport told me that they tried to get him once but couldn't pay his wages.

[tfp]

A man at M-Sport told me that they tried to get him once but couldn't pay his wages.

MW would probably have to sell M sport to pay his wages for a year, and then he wouldnt have a car to drive :D

[stefanvv]

MW would probably have to sell M sport to pay his wages for a year, and then he wouldnt have a car to drive :D

May be he would buy some... with the team :p

[xavier]

Loeb should first lose a championship then retire...

Agreed, as long as he is competitive (from him it means being world champion) and as long as he enjoys it, he should stay. I do want to see him against Ogier next year.

I still think that Ogier missed on a chance to beat the master if he had move to Ford this year. If Loeb retires this year that will greatly undervalue the perception of his career, he is surely the most likely to follow Loeb as WDC.

[stefanvv]

Agreed, as long as he is competitive (from him it means being world champion) and as long as he enjoys it, he should stay. I do want to see him against Ogier next year.

I still think that Ogier missed on a chance to beat the master if he had move to Ford this year. If Loeb retires this year that will greatly undervalue the perception of his career, he is surely the most likely to follow Loeb as WDC.

2013 Ogier would blow away Loeb like this car the tree - http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/ostatni/tuscan/abc42.jpg :eek: . At least I suspect he has the ambition to.

[A FONDO]

absolutely no doubt loeb will retire before VW start its first rally

[N.O.T]

absolutely no doubt loeb will retire before VW start its first rally

why you are so certain ?

[Camelopard]

absolutely no doubt loeb will retire before VW start its first rally

Again, I was told in NZ by a person whose opinion I respect, that citroen and Loeb have confirmed for next year.

Another disclaimer follows.........

I do realise that things change and I also know that I shouldn't believe everything that I'm told! Everyone satisfied? ;) :p : :D

[A FONDO]

why you are so certain ?

because he doesnt like fair fight with equal cars and drivers.

[Mirek]

because he doesnt like fair fight with equal cars and drivers.

Are You really so stupid or only pretending?

[bluuford]

because he doesnt like fair fight with equal cars and drivers.

aa.. you mean that he needs a little bit weaker car ;-)?

[Hartusvuori]

M-Sport says Novikov will run Fiesta WRC all 13 rounds in 2013.

[Rallyper]

M-Sport says Novikov will run Fiesta WRC all 13 rounds in 2013.

Can we suspect he´s overtaking JML´s place at Ford? I guess he´s got the money to do that.

[A FONDO]

M-Sport says Novikov will run Fiesta WRC all 13 rounds in 2013.

Its good he will drive whole season in WRC car and bad it will be with ford

[BleAivano]

Hirvonen have pulled out from Midnattsolsrallyt due to sponsor commitments.

[rallyfiend]

I appear to have stumbled on the wrong forum here.

I'll get my coat.

[N.O.T]

I appear to have stumbled on the wrong forum here.

I'll get my coat.

indeed... back to news and rumours.

[Brother John]

indeed... back to news and rumours.

Yes many post do not belong in this thread, some posts have now been moved to
http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/150000-rally-discussions-comments-pub-talk.html

[denkimi]

because he doesnt like fair fight with equal cars and drivers.
i have to agree.
although he is the best rally driver in the world, he never allowed any of his teammates to beat him in a fair fight. and if someone did managed to get the same support from the team, he visited the big boss to have him kicked out.

[Xsara Fan]

M-Sport says Novikov will run Fiesta WRC all 13 rounds in 2013.

I tell you a secret ;) Probably Novikov will run Fiesta WRC all 13 rounds THIS YEAR! :) But in 2013 - who knows? Evgeny now is a very interesting driver for all teams...

[N.O.T]

i have to agree.
although he is the best rally driver in the world, he never allowed any of his teammates to beat him in a fair fight. and if someone did managed to get the same support from the team, he visited the big boss to have him kicked out.

are you serious ?? you have some evidence to prove those allegations ??

Who was able to beat Loeb and he wasn't allowed to ???? And who did not get equal support as him ???

How do you know such things ???

[logic]

are you serious ?? you have some evidence to prove those allegations ??

Who was able to beat Loeb and he wasn't allowed to ???? And who did not get equal support as him ???

How do you know such things ???

How do you know they are not true?

[sollitt]

i have to agree.
although he is the best rally driver in the world, he never allowed any of his teammates to beat him in a fair fight. and if someone did managed to get the same support from the team, he visited the big boss to have him kicked out.I see the nutty kids have escaped from the asylum again.

[stefanvv]

I tell you a secret ;) Probably Novikov will run Fiesta WRC all 13 rounds THIS YEAR! :) But in 2013 - who knows? Evgeny now is a very interesting driver for all teams...

I see some involvement in Russian championship with VW, could this reflect in WRC too?

[garais22]

In "Silk Way" rally raid 3rd day Tony Gardemeister (3rd overall) crashed (http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/rallijs/1174-gardemeisters-piedzivo-avariju-un-izstajas-no-rallija-latviesi-turpina-vareni/)and retired. After the crash he complains about his back and was taken to hospital.

P.S. Sorry for offtopic

[A FONDO]

where he was 3rd overall ???

[N.O.T]

How do you know they are not true?

If i say that i know Loeb sleeps upside down with 10 monkeys on his head I will have to prove it...not the other way around.

Wake up or change sport...

When someone claims something like that he will have to back up his words.

[sindroms]

where he was 3rd overall ???

In rally-raid "Silk Way 2012" before retirement.

[tolis]

I tell you a secret ;) Probably Novikov will run Fiesta WRC all 13 rounds THIS YEAR! :) But in 2013 - who knows? Evgeny now is a very interesting driver for all teams...
Good news! Interesting driver for all teams except for Citroen I think. So either Ford or VW for next year!

[Pinto]

Kris Meeke is to get his first competitive outing in a WRC Mini this year,well its the Lurgan Park Rally and its in Derek McGeehans Mini WRC

[skarderud]

Kris Meeke is to get his first competitive outing in a WRC Mini this year,well its the Lurgan Park Rally and its in Derek McGeehans Mini WRC

Nice to hear! Sad story this meeke/prodrive thing.

[MJW]

UK press reporting today that there is a Citroen board meeting tomorow (thursday 12/7) and on the agenda is whether Citroen Racing continue with the WRC in 2013. Amongst things being quoted are car sales in France / Spain and Italy, (traditionally strong markets for PSA) are very weak. Also rumoured redundancies in the company and a strong denial that PSA need a 'bail out' from French Government. Plus added speculation about Seb Loeb, with hints that if Citroen and Loeb do stay in 2013 that Loeb has a reduced programme to allow him to pursue other interests.

[AndyRAC]

UK press reporting today that there is a Citroen board meeting tomorow (thursday 12/7) and on the agenda is whether Citroen Racing continue with the WRC in 2013. Amongst things being quoted are car sales in France / Spain and Italy, (traditionally strong markets for PSA) are very weak. Also rumoured redundancies in the company and a strong denial that PSA need a 'bail out' from French Government. Plus added speculation about Seb Loeb, with hints that if Citroen and Loeb do stay in 2013 that Loeb has a reduced programme to allow him to pursue other interests.

It's hardly a surprise is it? The warning signs were there when Peugeot pulled the plug on their Sportscar programme, the speculation then was how long did the Citroen WRC team have left? It doesn't go down too well when redundancies are handed out, and there is a Motorsport programme in operation. Peugeot were left the choice to quit now and develop a car for a few years time.

[stefanvv]

It's hardly a surprise is it? The warning signs were there when Peugeot pulled the plug on their Sportscar programme, the speculation then was how long did the Citroen WRC team have left? It doesn't go down too well when redundancies are handed out, and there is a Motorsport programme in operation. Peugeot were left the choice to quit now and develop a car for a few years time.

It is probably a surprise at some level. While Peugeot didn't do well in Le Mans, it was normal to leave at some point and cut this expensive program. On the other hand looks like the WRC promoting doesn't work really well for Citroen, which is strange despite all their titles.

[Rallyper]

Surprise for everyone awaited a strong competition next year between Citroen and VW (and Ford). I don´t think Loeb will be happy with such decision...

[A FONDO]

On the other hand looks like the WRC promoting doesn't work really well for Citroen, which is strange despite all their titles.

Obviously the titles dont have big value. And even the die-hard fanatics get overfed with these wins. Citroen should go to other motorsport disciplines and try to win there too.

[N.O.T]

If you think that a 9 times world champion will follow the WRC in a limited program you must be brain dead... Loeb will either retire for good or stay for a whole year more...

UK press can say all they want to feed their inferiority complexes...

[Allyc85]

UK press reporting today that there is a Citroen board meeting tomorow (thursday 12/7) and on the agenda is whether Citroen Racing continue with the WRC in 2013. Amongst things being quoted are car sales in France / Spain and Italy, (traditionally strong markets for PSA) are very weak. Also rumoured redundancies in the company and a strong denial that PSA need a 'bail out' from French Government. Plus added speculation about Seb Loeb, with hints that if Citroen and Loeb do stay in 2013 that Loeb has a reduced programme to allow him to pursue other interests.

Bye, bye Citreon...

[N.O.T]

Obviously the titles dont have big value. And even the die-hard fanatics get overfed with these wins. Citroen should go to other motorsport disciplines and try to win there too.

Citroen will do anything to sell cars, those stupid suggestions about teams and drivers that should do things to prove themselves should stop... NONE will ever do that and none ever did that... would you quit your job and do something else just to prove yourself ??

[AndyRAC]

It is probably a surprise at some level. While Peugeot didn't do well in Le Mans, it was normal to leave at some point and cut this expensive program. On the other hand looks like the WRC promoting doesn't work really well for Citroen, which is strange despite all their titles.

They only won Le Mans once in 2009, but won virtually every other race, beating Audi convincingly. They were favourites to win this years WEC...before the pull out.

[denkimi]

are you serious ?? you have some evidence to prove those allegations ??

Who was able to beat Loeb and he wasn't allowed to ???? And who did not get equal support as him ???

How do you know such things ???
it is my belief that both duval, sordo and ogier could beat loeb purely on speed. perhaps not for a whole season, but definitely on individual rally's.

for now we only have the statements of his former teammate duval and the (to me) pretty clear stage-times sordo have set with both his citroen and now with the mini. as long as he does not
retire from professional driving we will probably not learn more about the situation in the citroen-team, but that's only a matter of time.

and of course we all know what happened to ogier when he got equal support from the team and was trying to beat loeb. those events on their own are (again, to me) are the absolute proof that loeb's teammates have only 2 options. let loeb win, of find another team.

[AndyRAC]

If you think that a 9 times world champion will follow the WRC in a limited program you must be brain dead... Loeb will either retire for good or stay for a whole year more...

UK press can say all they want to feed their inferiority complexes...

Le Mans is unfinished business....You will see him taking part in the future, as well as other Sportscar races.

[Francis44]

Loeb said some time ago that he would like to do some rally's that he likes even if he retires, like Monte Carlo or France. I think that's not a problem for him since he can easily put together a number of sponsors, or even sponsor himself (altough very unlikely).

If Citroen jumps ship, there's a handfull of drivers who suddently see themselves in problems. Hirvonnen, Neuville will have to start too look for something else, since I dont think Peugeot will be back that soon.

[AndyRAC]

If you think that a 9 times world champion will follow the WRC in a limited program you must be brain dead... Loeb will either retire for good or stay for a whole year more...

UK press can say all they want to feed their inferiority complexes...

Le Mans is unfinished business....You will see him taking part in the future, as well as other Sportscar races.