[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[sollitt]

totally agree, GB and Finland should be mainstays :D :D

Why should this be? I don't like the rotational policy at all but, if there is to be one, why should there be exceptions and why these events particularly?

[Tomi]

Why should this be? I don't like the rotational policy at all but, if there is to be one, why should there be exceptions and why these events particularly?

Dont know about GB, but our event is almost every year voted the best arranged WRC rally, also all teams support that it should be in every year, but the biggest reason I think is that it is very spectator friendly after all rally is a spectator sport and will never be anything else.
I also dont like the rotation idea it has once been tested already and did not work, also rallyes like Mexico and Japan dont courage much, often it seems that countries want the event because of tourist reasons and the rally arrangements are not taking very good care of.

[cut the b.s.]

Why should this be? I don't like the rotational policy at all but, if there is to be one, why should there be exceptions and why these events particularly?

are you new to the sport? Some events have more history and commercial importance than others, right now all score the same points but all are definitely not equal in the eyes of competitors or fans.

[Kaps]

Right, like Tomi here already said, they tried it back in 1995/96.
Didn't work then, won't work now, either!

[Viking]

F Duval will start rally GB with Dennis Giraudet next to him, he confirmed that on his website. :-)


So, who will be sitting next to Brynildsen if Giraudet is with Duval?

Answer is.... Glenn Macneall :up:

[VFTS]

The link regarding Brynildsen/Macneall:

http://www.norsk-rally.com/modules/module_123/proxy.aspx?D=2&C=2&I=5773

[JRodrigues]

According to a portuguese report Guy Wilks will be doing 10 events for Subaru in 2009

Portuguese (http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl?p=stories&op=view&fokey=as.stories/61732)

English (http://translate.google.pt/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Fgen. pl%3Fp%3Dstories%26op%3Dview%26fokey%3Das.stories% 2F61732&sl=pt&tl=en&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8)

[Wim]

I was hoping that Wilks would get into the Subaru..he is undoubtably fast. Now names will follow, hopefully big names.

[alleskids]

The translation was calling it a Subaru official. Does it mean Wilks is in the SWRT MT2, being the teamate of Sarrazin and Tirabassi ?

[JRodrigues]

http://www.guywilks.com/500Club.aspx

[sollitt]

are you new to the sport? No, not new at all. In fact, I've been involved as long as there's been a world championship, about 34 years in all.This is exactly the reason I asked the question - fully anticipating the answer.

Remembering my time serving as crowd control marshall on the 1977 Heatway I can't help wondering how long an event has to have been a part of the scene to be considered "of historic significance".
There are many events that have provided good service since the 70's - Acropolis, New Zealand, San Remo etc... Do they not have "historic significance"?

If you are to have events that are exempt in an otherwise rotational system surely those events must offer something special.
I can recall a time when Finland's 1000 Lakes Rally and GB's RAC were held in higher regard than other events. Finland perhaps still is, GB I don't believe so.

Tomi's on the right track, in my view. Quality of the event and what it offers ought be the determining factor.
Finland wins accolades for it's organisation as, in fact, has Australia for much of it's time in the WRC. Australia has also enjoyed status as the teams most popular event whilst NZ is renowned as the driver's favourite. Other events have other attributes.

Surely we live in age in the 21st century when results and performance have more significance that mere history.

[Tomi]

Remembering my time serving as crowd control marshall on the 1977 Heatway I can't help wondering how long an event has to have been a part of the scene to be considered "of historic significance".
There are many events that have provided good service since the 70's - Acropolis, New Zealand, San Remo etc... Do they not have "historic significance"?

In my opinion the "historic significance" should not play a so big part in choosing what event should be in the series, a lousy arranged rally is lousy no matter if it has a long history, a good example of that is Monte.
The key why our rally is so popular i guess is good organisation who looking all the time for ways how to develope it, good roads, and the easyness to get to the stages.

[A.F.F.]

And hospitality. We love the ****ing foreigners.

[MikeD]

Could F1's new ugly look save WRC? ... or at least convert fans who are not in the market for supporting formula cars with DOWN's syndrom?

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/115749.jpg

[Buzz Lightyear]

might not look to bad... if it was not for the big front wing tips sitting out past the front wheels, the rear wing is actually ok.

Love the slicks tho!!!

[alexlake]

Could F1's new ugly look save WRC? ... or at least convert fans who are not in the market for supporting formula cars with DOWN's syndrom?

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/115749.jpg
is this really what they are going to look like?? :(

[Woodeye]

I don't give a sh*t about the looks of the F1...

... but I sure would like to see Seb in one of those. Amazing test times today. With him in F1 I would consider following F1. At least I would think about it. :D

[JRodrigues]

I don't give a sh*t about the looks of the F1...

... but I sure would like to see Seb in one of those. Amazing test times today. With him in F1 I would consider following F1. At least I would think about it. :D

2007 car + slicks = better times

[jonkka]

I don't give a sh*t about the looks of the F1...

Hear hear!

[Miika]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1258/vc8051117081024x768bs6.jpg
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6856/vc8061117081024x768ff8.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6663/vc8041117081024x768su7.jpg

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/458/vc8071117081024x768zh4.th.jpg (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vc8071117081024x768zh4.jpg) http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7007/vc8011117071024x768do8.th.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vc8011117071024x768do8.jpg)


Five-time world rally champion Sebastien Loeb from France does an informal test of Red Bull's new RB4 race car at the Catalonia racetrack in Montmelo, near Barcelona, Spain, on Monday, Nov. 17, 2008.(AP Photo)

[alleskids]

Loeb did a very reasonable time, 8th out of 17, all with more F1 experience then him, 1,7 seconds behind the fastest, Sato in the Torro Rosso.

[N.O.T]

you can see the times of the test here (last column indicates how many laps the drivers did)

http://www.rally.gr/default.asp?menu_code=f1-news-article&race_id=0&article_id=15628

[Buzz Lightyear]

albeit in a 2008 car which is maybe alot quicker than the 2009 cars being tested.

[RS]

Sebastien was not the only 2008 car running slicks, so I still think his time is quite impressive given his lack of F1 experience.

[cut the b.s.]

No, not new at all. In fact, I've been involved as long as there's been a world championship, about 34 years in all.This is exactly the reason I asked the question - fully anticipating the answer.

Remembering my time serving as crowd control marshall on the 1977 Heatway I can't help wondering how long an event has to have been a part of the scene to be considered "of historic significance".
There are many events that have provided good service since the 70's - Acropolis, New Zealand, San Remo etc... Do they not have "historic significance"?

If you are to have events that are exempt in an otherwise rotational system surely those events must offer something special.
I can recall a time when Finland's 1000 Lakes Rally and GB's RAC were held in higher regard than other events. Finland perhaps still is, GB I don't believe so.

Tomi's on the right track, in my view. Quality of the event and what it offers ought be the determining factor.
Finland wins accolades for it's organisation as, in fact, has Australia for much of it's time in the WRC. Australia has also enjoyed status as the teams most popular event whilst NZ is renowned as the driver's favourite. Other events have other attributes.

Surely we live in age in the 21st century when results and performance have more significance that mere history.

Finland is still a great event, GB is barely a shadow of what it was, but in my earlier post what I had said I would hope for wouldnt be mere protection of position for some select events, but also the freedom to run a proper event, a Rally GB with Grizdale and Kielder would still be a great and testing event.
I'd love to see 4/5 events given freedom to run old style, treated almost like a Masters Series within the championship, I'll bet some recently retired drivers could be enticed back to something like this.

I disagree with you regarding history though, the Monte Carlo rally may have its troubles, but it is still the best known rally. I'm sure for competitors good hotels and compact loops are all lovely but this whole thing is a 'sport' funded by marketing, and history, profile, global interest are all very much linked when it comes to events.

[Brother John]

The Kuwaiti enterprise investment took over 40 per cent of pro drive.
This publication came from both parties today.

Source:
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/home/index.html

[Roy]

http://translate.google.nl/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Fr%2Fwm%2Fd%2Fn%2Fd%2F2008%2F11%2F18%2 Fkuwaitis-kaufen-sich-bei-richards-ein%2Findex.html&sl=de&tl=en&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8

In German:
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2008/11/18/kuwaitis-kaufen-sich-bei-richards-ein/index.html

[RS]

So are we going to see "Kuwait Team Subaru" and "Abu Dhabi BP Ford" next year then?

[Buzz Lightyear]

So Apax partners already own 50%, and Kuwait Enterprise Investments 40%, so DR, only holds 10% assuming he has all remaining shares...

....Brilliant. Another bit of the UK silverware sold.

[Buzz Lightyear]

here is official statment

http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=199

they state TID bought 40%, so I assume they have bought Apex share, as he is still largest shareholder.

[Barreis]

Aston Martin eat all DR money?!

[MikeD]

Loeb will quit WRC if FIA get it their way on the next WMSC meeting. He doesn't want the simple S2000 / Group N format without the possibility of adding the S2000+ kit.

I honestly don't think that FIA cares what Loeb think or if he will quit the sport. Their main focus is cost-cutting. But I think that the sport will suffer big time if we only get S2000 - the cars are simply not spectacular enough IMO.

But I wonder if the teams and fans will care if Loeb quits? Will the sport suffer if the biggest name retires, or are there so few fans left that it doesn't matter?

http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/loeb-quit-wrc-s2000/

[grugsticles]

On one hand it would be sad to seen Seb move on (although im sure he would suceed in other areas) but on the other hand wouldnt mind too much.

If the FIA's propsed implemenmtation of S2000/Group N as the primary category then I agree that the cars arnt visually appealing but if the current regs were relaxed a bit, say perhaps S2500/Group N with larger restictor as well as a manditory 40/60 front/rear tourque split centre differential then the cars could be sideways more often and have sufficiant power to please most.

To me spectacular driving come from having the car sideways under power, sliding the car around corners, using scandinavians flicks to get around hair pins and generally putting the car to the limit of sideways grip.

Recently been driving my Subaru Liberty/Legacy RS Turbo with a Version 2 STi DCCD close ratio gear box. I havent installed the electronic side of this rendereing a 35/65 torque split.
To the non Subaru inclined that wont mean a great deal but the point im trying to make is that its a blast to drive - especially on gravel. It get sideways quite easily, but most importantly its VERY controlable yet I dont have a great deal of power at the wheels.

Thoughts?

[AndyRAC]

Loeb will quit WRC if FIA get it their way on the next WMSC meeting. He doesn't want the simple S2000 / Group N format without the possibility of adding the S2000+ kit.

I honestly don't think that FIA cares what Loeb think or if he will quit the sport. Their main focus is cost-cutting. But I think that the sport will suffer big time if we only get S2000 - the cars are simply not spectacular enough IMO.

But I wonder if the teams and fans will care if Loeb quits? Will the sport suffer if the biggest name retires, or are there so few fans left that it doesn't matter?

http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/loeb-quit-wrc-s2000/

While I'm a fan of Loeb, it's not for him to decide what future direction the sport goes. The S2000 are pretty expensive at the moment - then add a Turbo and Rear wing - how much will they then cost? And whether he's right or wrong regarding S2000 - if there are lots of Teams/cars/drivers with S2000 - What is wrong with that? A strong WRC is what is wanted. The early days of GroupA were hardly earth shattering, were they?

[Lousada]

if there are lots of Teams/cars/drivers with S2000 - What is wrong with that? A strong WRC is what is wanted.

There seems to be the idea that having wrc-cars and wrc-drivers in local rallies, diminishes the WRC itself. This because the WRC is supposedly the pinnacle. Having local guest drivers beating wrc-drivers shatters that idea. In their opinion the WRC must be as exclusive as possible, not only to lock out the opposition, but also to ask very high prices for entering.

Of course, I think the exact opposite of this vision.

[AndyRAC]

There seems to be the idea that having wrc-cars and wrc-drivers in local rallies, diminishes the WRC itself. This because the WRC is supposedly the pinnacle. Having local guest drivers beating wrc-drivers shatters that idea. In their opinion the WRC must be as exclusive as possible, not only to lock out the opposition, but also to ask very high prices for entering.

Of course, I think the exact opposite of this vision.

Seem to remember DR saying this as well - comparing it to F1. Sorry, this is Rallying, not F1, a completely different sport. It's always happened, get over it.

[OldF]

In an interview Olivier Quesnel was also worried about privateers winning rallies. I don’t remember where I read that interview but I’m quite sure it was in crash.net. I tried to search for it in crash.net but couldn’t find it.

[OldF]

On one hand it would be sad to seen Seb move on (although im sure he would suceed in other areas) but on the other hand wouldnt mind too much.

If the FIA's propsed implemenmtation of S2000/Group N as the primary category then I agree that the cars arnt visually appealing but if the current regs were relaxed a bit, say perhaps S2500/Group N with larger restictor as well as a manditory 40/60 front/rear tourque split centre differential then the cars could be sideways more often and have sufficiant power to please most.

To me spectacular driving come from having the car sideways under power, sliding the car around corners, using scandinavians flicks to get around hair pins and generally putting the car to the limit of sideways grip.

Recently been driving my Subaru Liberty/Legacy RS Turbo with a Version 2 STi DCCD close ratio gear box. I havent installed the electronic side of this rendereing a 35/65 torque split.
To the non Subaru inclined that wont mean a great deal but the point im trying to make is that its a blast to drive - especially on gravel. It get sideways quite easily, but most importantly its VERY controlable yet I dont have a great deal of power at the wheels.

Thoughts?

This not so much about “News & rumours” so I comment it in the thread “Technical Regulations 2010 –delayed”

[Livewireshock]

There seems to be the idea that having wrc-cars and wrc-drivers in local rallies, diminishes the WRC itself. This because the WRC is supposedly the pinnacle. Having local guest drivers beating wrc-drivers shatters that idea. In their opinion the WRC must be as exclusive as possible, not only to lock out the opposition, but also to ask very high prices for entering.

Of course, I think the exact opposite of this vision.

MotoGP and the Superbikes on two wheels have always faced the threat from an invited wildcard rider. The biggest threat coming during the Japanese events because of special factory 'hand grenades' built especially for the current local whizz kid to know the big boys off their perch. Usually it would end up with the whizz kid crashing out into the gravel, but occasionally it did cause an upset win that also affected the overall championship. However it has not brought the sport down a notch, increased local interest in the event and was great to see at times.

There is nothing different under the proposed changes that would be greatly different than the pay-ride one off rally appearances that happen now. Just at a more affordable level with S2000+. The major teams will still rise to the top with the greater budgets. Just like the factories rise above the rest despite local entries in the IRC.

[c4]

Video of Loeb Rally GB test
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/loeb-pre-rally-gb-test/

[RS]

To me spectacular driving come from having the car sideways under power, sliding the car around corners, using scandinavians flicks to get around hair pins and generally putting the car to the limit of sideways grip.

When did you last see a World Rally Car doing that though?

Power and torque are not the only things needed to achieve this. Unfortunately the WRC teams seem to want to keep the bits that stop this!

[Torsen]

To me spectacular driving results is faster stage times.... who cares how it looks... it isn't art, its racing...

[Buzz Lightyear]

To me spectacular driving results is faster stage times.... who cares how it looks... it isn't art, its racing...

you haven't been to a forest to see a Mk2 Escort being driven hard then?

[OldF]

To me spectacular driving results is faster stage times.... who cares how it looks... it isn't art, its racing...

Some trains are also going with a very high speed but IMO that’s not so spectacular.

[grugsticles]

When did you last see a World Rally Car doing that though?

Power and torque are not the only things needed to achieve this. Unfortunately the WRC teams seem to want to keep the bits that stop this!
Group A days come to mind :)

[raybak]

From someone who has had experience at the top level in Classics (MK 2 Escort GP 4) Super 1600 and in Group N. Also have done local events in a Turbo FWD Charade. To me the ultimate is setting a good stage time that when you get to the end of the stage you k now you can't drive the car any faster.

The good drivers will still look good in an S2000 or whatever they are told to drive. Let's see what the power brokers come up with, still go to the rallies no matter what result. If you are a true rally fan you will follow the sport no matter what.

So called fans who would leave the sport if the cars were detuned or didn't have turbos are not really fans in my eyes.

Be patient and the good times will come.

Ray Baker

[Brother John]

From someone who has had experience at the top level in Classics (MK 2 Escort GP 4) Super 1600 and in Group N. Also have done local events in a Turbo FWD Charade. To me the ultimate is setting a good stage time that when you get to the end of the stage you k now you can't drive the car any faster.

The good drivers will still look good in an S2000 or whatever they are told to drive. Let's see what the power brokers come up with, still go to the rallies no matter what result. If you are a true rally fan you will follow the sport no matter what.

So called fans who would leave the sport if the cars were detuned or didn't have turbos are not really fans in my eyes.

Be patient and the good times will come.

Ray Baker

I entirely agree with your post here. :up: ;)

[COD]

Some trains are also going with a very high speed but IMO that’s not so spectacular.


:laugh: :laugh:

That is one of the best comments ever :laugh:

[Finni]

OK, who can honestly say that spectating at the stage is as interesting with group N cars as with wrc-cars. Or who can say that video clips of group N cars are spectacular in slightest extent?

[bluuford]

OK, who can honestly say that spectating at the stage is as interesting with group N cars as with wrc-cars. Or who can say that video clips of group N cars are spectacular in slightest extent?

I can. In Estonian championship group N looks very nice:-) But it is fully on gravel:-) But our top drivers are pushing like hell and those few WRcars that we can see are usually not the fastest.

[ste898]

OK, who can honestly say that spectating at the stage is as interesting with group N cars as with wrc-cars. Or who can say that video clips of group N cars are spectacular in slightest extent?

I can say 100% no group N is not good to watch for spectator HOWEVER is driving as they are sooo dull!!!

[raybak]

I can say 100% no group N is not good to watch for spectator HOWEVER is driving as they are sooo dull!!!

You obviously haven't been watching properly, have you ever seen a rally live before?

Group N can be spectacular, Group A can be spectular, a FWD Lada can be spectacular.

I have seen a Hyundai Excel 1.6 driven so that it was very exciting to watch.

Any true rally fan will see this.

Ray

[urabus-denoS2000]

OK, who can honestly say that spectating at the stage is as interesting with group N cars as with wrc-cars. Or who can say that video clips of group N cars are spectacular in slightest extent?

I can honestly say that a properly driven group N car can be very spectacular,you can see when a group N car is pushed to the limit.
I know that is hard to understand to some fans because group N is not their top group , but in this part of Europe it is the top group so all of the top drivers are driving group N car and they are pushing very hard.

In Italy I would prefer to watch Ucci,Longhi,Aghini and Cantamessa in group N cars then some of those REALLY slow drivers in WRC cars (there are some exceptions in WRC cars that are driving properly,hats down to them)

About videos:Just watch Czech videos where all of the top drivers are driving group N.Trust me,they are very fast ;)


So my conclusion:Group N cars can be interesting

to raybak: But a RWD Lada VFTS is even more spectacular ;)

[ShiftingGears]

Some trains are also going with a very high speed but IMO that’s not so spectacular.

Well, the drivers shouldn't be given trains to drive then.

Current WRC cars are unspectacular. Not the drivers.

[Woodeye]

Group N can be spectacular, but it is AS spectacular as WRC. Not in a million years. Of course, if you watch a national series that has only group F cars in it the best of those can be spectacular. Add one WRC with decent driver to the same rally and suddenly all the others look like mopeds.

I really hope that group N and S2000 is not the future. At least it has to be S2000+. Hopefully S2000++ :)

[urabus-denoS2000]

Group N can be spectacular, but it is AS spectacular as WRC. Not in a million years. Of course, if you watch a national series that has only group F cars in it the best of those can be spectacular. Add one WRC with decent driver to the same rally and suddenly all the others look like mopeds.

I really hope that group N and S2000 is not the future. At least it has to be S2000+. Hopefully S2000++ :)

Sure it isnt as spectacular as WRC,it never will be.

There are not much better sights for a rally fan,then to see a WRC approaching a hairpin (possibly on mountain roads) ,a little squirlle is released from the turbo while braking and the car gently sliding while it is glued to the tarmac (as low as possible).
That is the top moment for me ;)

But group N isnt as DEADLY BORING AND DULL as some members are describing it,surely it isnt and it never will be.

[RS]

There are not much better sights for a rally fan,then to see a WRC approaching a hairpin (possibly on mountain roads) ,a little squirlle is released from the turbo while braking and the car gently sliding while it is glued to the tarmac (as low as possible).
That is the top moment for me ;)


Are you still living in 2003?

[Barreis]

Honda R3 - pdf with prize...
http://www.jasmotorsport.com/Pdf/188.pdf

[urabus-denoS2000]

Are you still living in 2003?

Why? :confused:

[Livewireshock]

Group N can be spectacular, but it is AS spectacular as WRC. Not in a million years. Of course, if you watch a national series that has only group F cars in it the best of those can be spectacular. Add one WRC with decent driver to the same rally and suddenly all the others look like mopeds.

I really hope that group N and S2000 is not the future. At least it has to be S2000+. Hopefully S2000++ :)

You cancelled your own argument there. It is the quality of the driver and how they push the car to and beyond the limit that makes them spectacular.

A bad driver in a WRC is boring. A good driver in something just saved from the wreckers yard is fun to watch.

The difference between class of cars is too subjective and every fan has their own opinion. AWD vs RWD vs FWD, Old vs New, Turbo vs N/A

However the spectacle is not from the tool but from the skilled tradesman using it. A great driver will always look great, no matter what they are driving.

One of the most spectacular drives I have ever seen was actually the Toyota Landcruiser recovery vehicle at the end of the event. Was all crossed up and onto two wheels and was simply beautiful to see.

[urabus-denoS2000]

A great driver will always look great, no matter what they are driving.


Agree ;)

[ste898]

You obviously haven't been watching properly, have you ever seen a rally live before?

Group N can be spectacular, Group A can be spectular, a FWD Lada can be spectacular.

I have seen a Hyundai Excel 1.6 driven so that it was very exciting to watch.

Any true rally fan will see this.

Ray

Have I ever seen a rally Live?

I average about 15 or more LIVE events each year!!!

Please dont tell me I have'nt been watching properly

Group N cars are boring both in sound and on the road FACT

OH also I am a true rally fan!!!

[Mirek]

Dear ste898, what is or isn't spectacular, is very subjective. Someone even likes diesels on rally (yes, I know some of those).

Therefore what is or isn't spectacular can't be called fact at all.

[MJW]

Have I ever seen a rally Live?

I average about 15 or more LIVE events each year!!!

Please dont tell me I have'nt been watching properly

Group N cars are boring both in sound and on the road FACT

OH also I am a true rally fan!!!

I would rather see group N car driven by the likes of Hanninen, Mark Higgins, Guy Wilks, Flodin, Ketoma etc than some WRC 'driven' to victory on a British gravel rally. See some of the commitment in Finland in Group N. Ste 898 I will not name the people in UK with WRC cars, but generally they are hobby rally drivers, (who can afford to 'win') I agree Group N sounds bad and will miss Andy Burtons car when that is banned.

[Tomi]

I would rather see group N car driven by the likes of Hanninen, Mark Higgins, Guy Wilks, Flodin, Ketoma etc than some WRC 'driven' to victory on a British gravel rally. See some of the commitment in Finland in Group N. Ste 898 I will not name the people in UK with WRC cars, but generally they are hobby rally drivers, (who can afford to 'win') I agree Group N sounds bad and will miss Andy Burtons car when that is banned.

I agree, its not so much about the car but who drives it, here in national championship maybe the first 6-7 GrN cars are driven properly and that looks good because the drivers are good and that would not change by changing the car because they would still be better drivers, but I guess the new rules will make the GrN cars to be driven a bit different from now.

[ShiftingGears]

Have I ever seen a rally Live?

I average about 15 or more LIVE events each year!!!

Please dont tell me I have'nt been watching properly

Group N cars are boring both in sound and on the road FACT

OH also I am a true rally fan!!!

Surely you know that spectacle is a subjective term. Therefore it isn't fact.



The WRCs problem is that the drivers don't need to drift in order to be the fastest, because of the amount of grip that the cars have.


So the drivers can be slow and sideways, or fast and unspectacular. If I were a rally driver, I know what I'd choose.

[Finni]

The WRCs problem is that the drivers don't need to drift in order to be the fastest, because of the amount of grip that the cars have.

So the drivers can be slow and sideways, or fast and unspectacular. If I were a rally driver, I know what I'd choose.

I haven't noticed that top pwrc crews would use more sideways than for instance what Loeb or Grönholm have done. Top-wrc drivers uses sliding in different extents - depending on set-up and the event. But every driver slides the car when they turn into the curve.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I haven't noticed that top pwrc crews would use more sideways than for instance what Loeb or Grönholm have done. Top-wrc drivers uses sliding in different extents - depending on set-up and the event. But every driver slides the car when they turn into the curve.

true, seems to be, if you have less power, the more the drivers appear to 'chuck' the car at the corners... i expect to carry momentum. Super 2000 driver seem to do this also, especially tight tarmac hairpins.

Another reason... is that PWRC are not Loeb or Gronholm... so they will never drive the same :)

[c4]

No Adapta seat for Grondal in the WRC next year
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/grondal-no-wrc-2009/

[SubaruNorway]

No Adapta seat for Grondal in the WRC next year
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/grondal-no-wrc-2009/

I hope you tried to write Rally Norway, not Australia :p

[c4]

I hope you tried to write Rally Norway, not Australia :p

My poor translation.

Fixed now cheers ;)

[jbmarcus21]

rallybuzz is your website C4 ??.. Good, lot of infos.. But the announcement of the third subaru is for soon, not ?

[c4]

rallybuzz is your website C4 ??.. Good, lot of infos.. But the announcement of the third subaru is for soon, not ?

Cheers jbmarcus21,

Yeah it's my site

Believe the announcement might be made before or just after Rally GB, according to various sources including autosport.pt.

[SubaruNorway]

Some more Subaru news in this interview

http://www.crash.net/radioplayer/radioplayer.asp?radioURL=4489.wma

[VFTS]

rallybuzz is your website C4 ??.. Good, lot of infos.. But the announcement of the third subaru is for soon, not ?


I also like your site, but I dont like that you are making articles on every small rumour you read in these forum.

Sometimes you have to hold your breath some more minutes and catch up more reliable facts/sources before you publish.

But keep up the good work!

[cut the b.s.]

I can say 100% no group N is not good to watch for spectator HOWEVER is driving as they are sooo dull!!!

Your spelling is wrong, so is your opinion.

[urabus-denoS2000]

c4 just keep up the good work,I especcially like your articles about recent and even historic rallies with videos

It is a really great site!

Sorry for going off-topic

[VFTS]

Your spelling is wrong, so is your opinion.


Please dont comment the spelling!
Cut the b.s , I dont know if you are british or irish , but the brits and the irish are so spoiled because they can use their own language almost over the whole world!

[c4]

I also like your site, but I dont like that you are making articles on every small rumour you read in these forum.

Sometimes you have to hold your breath some more minutes and catch up more reliable facts/sources before you publish.

But keep up the good work!

VFTS I do accept your point,

though I do back up the articles with mainly reliable sources, usually from a couple of places so the stories are consistent. If a story is speculation then I say so, but most of the speculative information comes from the main websites and not necesarily from here.

I would also like to think I hold back on sensitive information and try not to publish sensationalist stories.

But thanks for your comments and I will keep it up,

Cheers :)

[MikeD]

VFTS I do accept your point,

though I do back up the articles with mainly reliable sources, usually from a couple of places so the stories are consistent. If a story is speculation then I say so, but most of the speculative information comes from the main websites and not necesarily from here.

I would also like to think I hold back on sensitive information and try not to publish sensationalist stories.

But thanks for your comments and I will keep it up,

Cheers :)

Hi c4,

I think your site, is what rally fans have been looking for in a long time. It's my favorite rally site and i check it every day, because you bring a mixture of news - both for the big teams and drivers, but also for small teams and less known drivers (which is what makes your site differ from other sites).

And i like the fact that you bring a lot of historic pictures and YouTube links.

So keep up the good work!

[Buzz Lightyear]

Hi c4,

I think your site, is what rally fans have been looking for in a long time. It's my favorite rally site and i check it every day, because you bring a mixture of news - both for the big teams and drivers, but also for small teams and less known drivers (which is what makes your site differ from other sites).

And i like the fact that you bring a lot of historic pictures and YouTube links.

So keep up the good work!

i'll second that..

[noel157]

+3

[cut the b.s.]

Please dont comment the spelling!
Cut the b.s , I dont know if you are british or irish , but the brits and the irish are so spoiled because they can use their own language almost over the whole world!


Yes I am a native english speaker, I also believe that ste898 is too, I understand that this is an international forum where many are not using their 1st language, for this reason I think its important that people try to keep a good standard of grammar and spelling. I use other forums and have only some french and spanish and when on sites that use these languages I really appreciate when people try to use them correctly as it is easier for me then.


Check out ste898s post that I was refering to, his incorrect spelling meant that it didnt make sense at all! Whoever and however are 2 completely different words with totally different meanings!

[noel157]

Yes I am a native english speaker, I also believe that ste898 is too, I understand that this is an international forum where many are not using their 1st language, for this reason I think its important that people try to keep a good standard of grammar and spelling. I use other forums and have only some french and spanish and when on sites that use these languages I really appreciate when people try to use them correctly as it is easier for me then.


Check out ste898s post that I was refering to, his incorrect spelling meant that it didnt make sense at all! Whoever and however are 2 completely different words with totally different meanings!

I'm pretty sure that ste898 is not a native English speaker..
Otherwise I agree.

[Lalo]

Sarrazin and Loeb swapped cars for a day

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/72275

Sèb had the chance of racing the Peugeot 908 HDi while Stephane could get back in a WRCar after a long time since his last drive in an Subaru Impreza, this time in Loeb's Citroën C4 WRC.

[Donney]

Cheers jbmarcus21,

Yeah it's my site

Believe the announcement might be made before or just after Rally GB, according to various sources including autosport.pt.


I love that site! Thanks c4! :)

[pettersolberg29]

Is this confirmation of Marcus at SWRT? The forum members seem to think so!

http://www.pettersolberg.com/html/2008/11/29/good-news-with-marcus/

[N.O.T]

according to rally.gr rumours have gronholm driving a subaru 2008 in 8 rounds next year.

http://www.rally.gr/default.asp?menu_code=wrc-news-article&race_id=0&article_id=15684

[noel157]

according to rally.gr rumours have gronholm driving a subaru 2008 in 8 rounds next year.

http://www.rally.gr/default.asp?menu_code=wrc-news-article&race_id=0&article_id=15684

Got to agree with the last sentence in the article -

"Science fiction or not, the bottom line is that if it is a reality then the Championship of the new year will be even more exciting"

Gronholm and Andreas in a Subaru team- the master and the apprentice.......

[SubaruNorway]

Is this confirmation of Marcus at SWRT? The forum members seem to think so!

http://www.pettersolberg.com/html/2008/11/29/good-news-with-marcus/

It says: Det hadde vært en glede å ha Marcus Grønholm i teamet neste år. Det har vært mye rykter i det siste, men jeg vil veldig gjerne jobbe og fighte sammen med Marcus.

It would have been a pleasure to have Marcus Grønholm in the team next year. There has been alot of rumours lately, but i would love to work and fight togheter with Marcus.

Is there something kryptic about that...?

[Wim]

they are waiting till next week to make it official. No more, no less. Subaru is going upstairs

[alleskids]

If Petter had said: It WILL be fun working with Marcus, it would be a confirmation thjat Gronholm wil drive for SWRT. It COULD be fun with Marcus ina team or with Carlos in a team or with Juha ina team. Even better with Santa Claus in a team. If he copies the set up from Santa Claus, Petter can take all jumpes flat out and fly the rest of the stage. :)
First see, then believe. I don't buy it, why spend his pension money on a car that cannot even beat privateer Focus's?

[N.O.T]

why spend his pension money on a car that cannot even beat privateer Focus's?

i doubt that gronholm will use any of his money to run in WRC....

[alleskids]

So Gronholm has found a large amount of sponsor money. But why spend it on a Subaru, if he can have a Focus WRC08, or C4 WRC ? Wilson is more then happy to service hem a WRCar.

[Roy]

So Gronholm has found a large amount of sponsor money. But why spend it on a Subaru, if he can have a Focus WRC08, or C4 WRC ? Wilson is more then happy to service hem a WRCar.

I think -if this Subaru/Gronholm story is true- Subaru pay Gronholm.
So no sponsors.
Remember: Kuwaitis buy them self in by Prodrive = money, money, money.

[Barreis]

I agree. Also Gronholm is not so crazy to pay for a drive when he is the only man who can beat Seb in straight fight (Neste Finland for example).

[DIMI44]

Only as a reminder.
MARCUS GRONHOLM: Born 5.02.1968.

[Barreis]

He can be 50, but if he can beat Seb that's it. There are younger boys but Loeb won in Finland Neste. So no doubt about it.

[Buzz Lightyear]

i think the reasoning would be too beat atkinson and/or solberg, and prove that if the car is not upto it, at least he is better than those two. but i would expect that marcus' setup would also suit petter and atinkson also, so their performances may improve also.

[A.F.F.]

Public sevice announcement for you guys. You won't see the day when Marcus pays for the ride. Period.

He gets payid and when he does, it won't be a cheap tag.

[pettersolberg29]

http://www.rallybuzz.com/mikkelsen-m-sport-2009-wrc/

Here's one of the possibilites for Subaru or C4 confirmed for Ford.

Good move for him IMO. Good car, and he's used to it - reliable finsihes shold now be his aim. Future WDC this one!

[Woodeye]

Only as a reminder.
MARCUS GRONHOLM: Born 5.02.1968.

Yes. And a double world champion.

[Donney]

Seems like the best option overall.

[Leon]

According to rallye-magazin.de:

Mark Deans confirmed Ford WRC presence in 2009,

Wilson said that stobart precence in 2009 is not yet confirmed but there are positive signs. He also declined to confirm Mikkelsen drive with Ford in 2009

[RS]

According to rallye-magazin.de:

Mark Deans confirmed Ford WRC presence in 2009,

Wilson said that stobart precence in 2009 is not yet confirmed but there are positive signs. He also declined to confirm Mikkelsen drive with Ford in 2009

Ahh, so the threats were empty. At least the FIA will know not to listen to Ford next time!

[Roy]

Yes. And a double world champion.

So what? It is long ago. Sainz and Makkinen comes back?

[AndyRAC]

According to rallye-magazin.de:

Mark Deans confirmed Ford WRC presence in 2009,

Wilson said that stobart precence in 2009 is not yet confirmed but there are positive signs. He also declined to confirm Mikkelsen drive with Ford in 2009

So what has prompted them to sign up? Have the FIA given in and the future regs will mean hi-tech cars?

[Woodeye]

So what? It is long ago. Sainz and Makkinen comes back?

It's not that long ago. And who the h*ll is Makkinen?

[Roy]

It's not that long ago. And who the h*ll is Makkinen?

Do I spell wrong that you don't know? :s
For you: Mäkinen

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[jbmarcus21]

Rallybuzz is down ?

[userwave]

[quote="N.O.T"]according to rally.gr rumours have gronholm driving a subaru 2008 in 8 rounds next year./quote]

Incredible news!!!

Gronholm was/is amazing!!!

[Woodeye]

Do I spell wrong that you don't know? :s
For you: Mäkinen

I just annoys mee to see all the Kannkkunnenne and Makkinen and Tomi and Macrae etc. in here.

[Tomi]

Tomi

same here :)

[ste898]

Ahh, so the threats were empty. At least the FIA will know not to listen to Ford next time!

So you think it would be beter if they did'nt stay in for 2009.......get a grip!!!

[DonJippo]

Citroen confirmed continuing in WRC, also started negotiations with Loeb for a contract with him 2010.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sport/rallye-wm/hxcms_article_517556_13987.hbs

[Woodeye]

same here :)

No,no. I meant Tomi Makkinen, the famous Finnish rally driver.

[RS]

Anyone know what date the manufacturer entries for 2009 will be unveiled? It's usually before the end of the year from memory..

[Roy]

Anyone know what date the manufacturer entries for 2009 will be unveiled? It's usually before the end of the year from memory..

7.2.3 A Manufacturer wishing to score points in the Championship must register for the Championship with the FIA at any time before 15 December of the year preceding the year of the Championship in which it wishes to compete, using an entry form available from the FIA.
7.2.4 A Manufacturer Team wishing to score points in the Championship may register at any time before the closing of entries of the 4th event of the World Rally Championship, using an entry form available from the FIA. Points will accrue only from those events nominated following registration.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... REGS_a.pdf (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/F6D081370C32FB4AC1257512005DCF5E/$FILE/2009%20WRC%20REGS_a.pdf)

So we can find some info from 15 December.

[RS]

Thanks Roy :)

[Gard]

Looks like Mikkelsen has given up chasing sponsors for 2009. So he'll most probably do his army service instead. Hope for a last minute solution thow.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Reality check for Mikkelsen.
All the hype, teams talking-him-up.
Welcome to the real world.

[MikeD]

Reality check for Mikkelsen.
All the hype, teams talking-him-up.
Welcome to the real world.

Yes, the financial crisis is really starting to show the effect now.

I bet that a maximun of 2 (realistically only one) of the expected M2/MT teams in 2009 will actually happen.

None of the M2 teams Stobart, Munchi's, PH-Sport, Adapta and VM Motorsport have secured both drivers for a minimum of 8 rounds. My guess is that PH-Sport and Adapta won't happen after all, they will just drive as normal privateers.

And I expect Stobart, Munchi's and VM Motorsport might merge as one M2/MT Ford team to make sure they have drivers for all 12 rounds.

...and that's an optimistic view (IMHO) :-/

PS: And since Suzuki is 50/50 according to WRR I don't expect them to be there in 2009 either.

[bluuford]

Yes, the financial crisis is really starting to show the effect now.

I bet that a maximun of 2 (realistically only one) of the expected M2/MT teams in 2009 will actually happen.

None of the M2 teams Stobart, Munchi's, PH-Sport, Adapta and VM Motorsport have secured both drivers for a minimum of 8 rounds. My guess is that PH-Sport and Adapta won't happen after all, they will just drive as normal privateers.

And I expect Stobart, Munchi's and VM Motorsport might merge as one M2/MT Ford team to make sure they have drivers for all 12 rounds.

...and that's an optimistic view (IMHO) :-/

PS: And since Suzuki is 50/50 according to WRR I don't expect them to be there in 2009 either.

I am little bit more optimistic about some M2 teams.
for sure we are going to see:
Citroen:
1. Loeb
2. Sordo
Ford
3. Hirvonen
4. Latvala
Subaru
5.Solberg
6.Atkinson



and very likely we are going to see:
Citroen M2 (PH Sport)
1. Rautenbach
2. Aava? - sponsors gave him green light and certain amount of money for next year. He said that as a result of current economy all the teams are lowering their prices and he is still trying to find the best option.

van Mijerkenstein Ford MT
1.jun.
2.sen. + mr x?


Drivers who have confirmed their participation:
1. Al Qassimi Ford
2. Ogier Citroen (6 rounds)
3. Ostberg Subaru
4. Wilson Ford
5. Villagra Ford

Drivers we are going to see quite likely:
1. Wilks (Subaru)
2. Novikov?
3. Galli (ford)
4. Solberg
5. Gardemeister (Suzuki)
6. Andersson (Suzuki)
7. Tirabassi

Well.. I don't remember such a mess list in such a short time before the start of new season :-)

[Jaanus]

Rautenbach is not confirmed in the Citroen M2 team, he might change teams or considering the current economical climate not drive at all.

http://www.rallybuzz.com/rautenbach-not-confirmed-m2-09/

[RS]

Autosport today predicts Suzuki will go.

If they want to stay in rallying, surely their best option is to take a sabbatical in 2009 and develop and test an S2000 car properly in anticipation for 2010.

A team with Suzuki's limited resources won't be able to run a 2009 programme and develop a new car too, I would have thought.

[Barreis]

Does anybody know about Mr. Gronholm?

[MikeD]

and very likely we are going to see:

Yes Bluuford, you are an optimist ... but not a realist ;) I think some people in here are forgetting exately how hard this finansiel crisis has hit everybody. Huge budget cuts will be made all over the world during december, and sponsorship are likely to be the first to go.



Citroen M2 (PH Sport)
1. Rautenbach
2. Aava? - sponsors gave him green light and certain amount of money for next year. He said that as a result of current economy all the teams are lowering their prices and he is still trying to find the best option.

The PH-Sport haven't signed a single driver, and Aava might not have the budget for 8 rounds (which is required for an M2/MT entry). Rautenbach might have the funding, but might look for a cheaper solution.

I say that team has app. 10-15% of happening




van Mijerkenstein Ford MT
1.jun.
2.sen. + mr x?

That team has huge private funding, and I think they might enter as an M2/MT team.

I say that team has app. 50% of happening





Drivers we are going to see quite likely:
1. Wilks (Subaru)
2. Novikov?
3. Galli (ford)
4. Solberg
5. Gardemeister (Suzuki)
6. Andersson (Suzuki)
7. Tirabassi

I agree with Wilks and H.Solberg. Forget Galli and the Suzuki boys, they are not gonna happen. Suzuki is out and Galli wont be able to find funding in Italy atm. That country is in a deep crisis.

Novikov and Tirabassi are hard to judge, but I think Novikov might be able to collect the nessary sponsorship for some events. I think Tirabassi is using personal funding, so he might drive some rounds.



Well.. I don't remember such a mess list in such a short time before the start of new season :-)

And that's the signal from the crisis, and why many of the things on your list aren't gonna happen.

[Tom206wrc]

Autosport today predicts Suzuki will go.

If they want to stay in rallying, surely their best option is to take a sabbatical in 2009 and develop and test an S2000 car properly in anticipation for 2010.

A team with Suzuki's limited resources won't be able to run a 2009 programme and develop a new car too, I would have thought.



Don't know if it can be seen as a link, but Suzuki chairman was forced to retire from his functions(illness was the official reason, but who knows)... :mark:

[Xsara Fan]

Rautenbach is not confirmed in the Citroen M2 team, he might change teams or considering the current economical climate not drive at all.

http://www.rallybuzz.com/rautenbach-not-confirmed-m2-09/

Today my friend from PH-Sport send me the letter with this text:
"For the moment, Conrad RAUTENABACH for the championship, Ogier for 6 races. No more news yet for 2009".

[MikeD]

Today my friend from PH-Sport send me the letter with this text:
"For the moment, Conrad RAUTENABACH for the championship, Ogier for 6 races. No more news yet for 2009".

Thanks for that info Zsara Fan. I have some questions and comments you might be able to answer.

1.) I thought that Ogier was to drive a car prepared by Citroën Sport, but you are sure it's gonna be run by PH-Sport? - and if yes, then I guess he will be driving for Manu points.

2.) Despite these two drivers, it's still not enough to enter as an M2/MT team. Don't they need two cars for at least 8 events?

[MartijnS]

The van Merksteijn team is definitely gonna drive 8 rounds next year, but wheather they will be a M2 team or not is the question. But the 8 rounds are 100% sure.

[Helstar]

Forget Galli and the Suzuki boys, they are not gonna happen. Suzuki is out and Galli wont be able to find funding in Italy atm. That country is in a deep crisis.

looooooool sorry Mr. IKnowItAll ... which country is in "deep" crisis ? Italy ?

It's crisis, but no more nor less than all the others ... "DEEP" is surely big to say, since FIAT will be one of the few to survive if you've read around, and I won't forget a certain Pirelli (it's the only WRC tyre supplier you know, and first Galli sponsor ... but maybe you prefer to know other things and not some -less important- ones ^^).

Btw, Gigi is going to drive for M-Sport in the Memorial Bettega http://www.motorshow.it/it/iscritti/0/68/15/3/Elenco-iscritti

If he won't drive again in a Stobart Ford or any other car in WRC 2009, it will not be for the "deep" crisis in Italy http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[MikeD]

looooooool sorry Mr. IKnowItAll ... which country is in "deep" crisis ? Italy ?

It's crisis, but no more nor less than all the others ... "DEEP" is surely big to say, since FIAT will be one of the few to survive if you've read around, and I won't forget a certain Pirelli (it's the only WRC tyre supplier you know, and first Galli sponsor ... but maybe you prefer to know other things and not some -less important- ones ^^).

Btw, Gigi is going to drive for M-Sport in the Memorial Bettega http://www.motorshow.it/it/iscritti/0/68/15/3/Elenco-iscritti

If he won't drive again in a Stobart Ford or any other car in WRC 2009, it will not be for the "deep" crisis in Italy http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Easy now Mr. KnowNothing!

I actually work as a consultant right know for fixing marketing, research and sponsorship budgets for some of the biggest FMCG companies in Europe.

A month ago these companies expected a worst-case scenario of a cut down of a maximun 30% of their budgets for 2009. Over the last couple of weeks reality of the financial crisis kicked in and now cuts in budgets are between 60-80%. Two of the companies I've been involved in have big markets in Greece, Spain and Italy, and especially Greece and Italy are heavily affected by the crisis and it's reflected in how consumers behave. If consumers are holding back money for consumption then marketing and sponsorships will get affected.

Don't get me wrong. I hope Galli gets a seat, because I actually like him and his driving style, but facts are that he had a very hard time securing these sponsors for the 2008 season. That's not going to be any easier for 2009, so I very much doubt he will be able to raise that kind of cash again. But like I said, I hope I am proved wrong.

[Brother John]

If consumers are holding back money for consumption then marketing and sponsorships will get affected.

Do not forget that thousands unemployed people have no more money for normal consumption! The end of the crisis IS is not visibil yet. :confused:

[Tomi]

Does anyone have info about Atkinson, what will he do next season?

[alleskids]

Chris Atkinson has a cotract with SWRT for 2009 as far as I know it.

[Tomi]

Chris Atkinson has a cotract with SWRT for 2009 as far as I know it.
Are you sure?

[MikeD]

Are you sure?

Richard Taylor confirms Solberg and Atkinson for 2009.

http://www.crash.net/radioplayer/radioplayer.asp?radioURL=4489.wma

[Tomi]

Richard Taylor confirms Solberg and Atkinson for 2009.

http://www.crash.net/radioplayer/radioplayer.asp?radioURL=4489.wma

Yes, but does some reliable sourse confirm that too?

[MikeD]

Yes, but does some reliable sourse confirm that too?

RT is not reliable??? ;) Is it because you expect Grönholm to replace Atkinson for '09?

[Tomi]

RT is not reliable??? ;) Is it because you expect Grönholm to replace Atkinson for '09?
i just think its strange they skipped him from the italian rally show.

[m4rk]

Next year, Conrad Rautenbach will continue for sure in a top WRC car/team
Most likely to be Citroen.

Source: the guy who sits (sat) next to him...

[Tomi]

Source: the guy who sits (sat) next to him...

Where, in the bus?

[Motorsportfun]

...David Senior? :p

[Woodeye]

since FIAT will be one of the few to survive if you've read around, and I won't forget a certain Pirelli (it's the only WRC tyre supplier you know, and first Galli sponsor ... but maybe you prefer to know other things and not some -less important- ones ^^).

Oh, no. No, nononono. FIAT is the first one to hit troubles in Europe. Today the american car labour unions declined the pay cuts and therefore I expect both GM and Ford to go bankcrupt. (way to bo btw) FIAT unfortunately is one of the smallest in Europe and it won't see the end of this recession if it is left alone. Ferrari will, FIAT no. The CEO of Fiat told this himself, FIAT is too small to survive by it's own.

[Helstar]

I actually work as a consultant right know for fixing marketing -cut- sponsorships will get affected.

Ye ye whatever ... http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif



Don't get me wrong. I hope Galli gets a seat, because I actually like him and his driving style, but facts are that he had a very hard time securing these sponsors for the 2008 season. That's not going to be any easier for 2009, so I very much doubt he will be able to raise that kind of cash again. But like I said, I hope I am proved wrong.
Which are all his sponsors and who is going to leave him ? Name them please http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif ...

Woodeye: If you'd live in Italy you'd know also why FIAT survived the huge big crisis of a couple of years ago. They can't die ...

[Koz]

Woodeye: If you'd live in Italy you'd know also why FIAT survived the huge big crisis of a couple of years ago. They can't die ...

Cosa Nostra? :p

[Helstar]

Cosa Nostra? :p
Nope, the government ! ;P

[Jarno]

We might get big news from Subaru tomorrow... :(

[Woodeye]

We might get big news from Subaru tomorrow... :(

Ok, is it Subaru backing off from the WRC now? Or just Bosse not driving next year?

[Jarno]

First one.

[Woodeye]

How do you know?

[Jarno]

Well I don't, just a rumour, but you've read the news right?

[Miika]

I´ve already lighten up a candle in memory of the series, a few years late yes but still. Hopefully it will be back alive in a new form in 2010.

[HaCo]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72483


Subaru's budget for next season is reportedly being trimmed by parent company Fuji Heavy Industries and the cash for Gronholm is thought to be coming from Prodrive itself.

Says enough I think...

[jbmarcus21]

First one.

strange not ?.. Why Sub has annouced 4 days ago, new car S15 for 2009 beginning... ?

[Miika]

Yesterday was yesterday, today is today. Things happen fast.

[santori]

Courtesy of mursuka80 at AtlasF1:

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/ralli/2008/12/764726

I can't read Finnish but I'm told it doesn't look good.

[jbmarcus21]

Courtesy of mursuka80 at AtlasF1:

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/ralli/2008/12/764726

I can't read Finnish but I'm told it doesn't look good.

yes.. i have just read that now... very strange... It will be dramatic...

[jbmarcus21]

I can't read Finnish but I'm told it doesn't look good.

try this link for translate finnish => english ...
http://www.lexilogos.com/traduction_multilingue.htm

so the english translate : http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/ralli/2008/12/764726&&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&sl=fi&tl=en ;)

[santori]

Ah, thanks. Lexilogos looks good.

I've been using Babel Fish which doesn't have Finnish.

[jens]

First Suzuki, now Subaru... I remember a discussion on this forum about WRC going to bust with everyone leaving, which would mean a fresh start from zero. Well, the possibility of seeing this to happen is increasing every day...

There have been a lot of hopes for 2010 due to new rules as it is expected we could see more manufacturers involved by then, but I'm personally not sure at all. More than a year still to go and due to recession car makers may well abandon their WRC-plans, so we may not get a good competitive series even in 2010 with S2000...

[jonas_mcrae]

no offense but that translation sucks...

[Miika]

I´ll give it a go then:

"According to the information of Tulosruutu (the sports show) Subaru team is about to leave the WRC.
.......
A source close to the team says the team will announce their withdrawal on Tuesday. On Monday Subaru was still saying they would take part in the opening round of the 2009 season in Rally Ireland.

....
"
and the rest is blaablaa. There.

[miksu]

Ford - Citroen cup? pretty pathetic, but thats how its been for some years already. Oh hell....

[JRodrigues]

And if I say that Ford and Citroen are going to quit WRC next friday, does that mean it's true?

[jens]

And if I say that Ford and Citroen are going to quit WRC next friday, does that mean it's true?

In these days everything is possible, so don't write off anything. ;)

[grugsticles]

If what has been said about Subaru withdrawing is true then it will be a sad sad day :(
Im a huge Subaru fan and to me they, along with Prodrive and their employees, have had quite a significant influence on my life.

But if does go ahead only to leave Citreon and Ford then perhpas the IRC will become the pinacle of rallying in the world.

[Miika]

We won´t have to wait too long to find out if this rumour stands. But with the current economics sh#t going down, I would be more surprised if Subbie wouldn´t announce their retirement.

[pantealex]

Very good news for Wilson and Rautenbach :p Top8 in every rally 2009?

[domaza]

We won´t have to wait too long to find out if this rumour stands. But with the current economics sh#t going down, I would be more surprised if Subbie wouldn´t announce their retirement.
At least Subaru sales in Estonia are up 333 % this year :) Other manufacturers (except) Škoda have seen major decline ...

C-mon Subaru, stay! Subaru and rallying are a perfect match!

[jens]

Very good news for Wilson and Rautenbach :p Top8 in every rally 2009?

If Citroen and Ford leave too, then Wilson and Rautenbach may well start fighting for wins as they seem to be the few ones, who can find enough funding. :p :

[Cloverleaf]

Petter and Chris without a drive.Very sad indeed.

[pantealex]

If Citroen and Ford leave too, then Wilson and Rautenbach may well start fighting for wins as they seem to be the few ones, who can find enough funding. :p :
No, Henning has also funding and he is faster...

[RS]

If Citroen and Ford leave too, then Wilson and Rautenbach may well start fighting for wins as they seem to be the few ones, who can find enough funding. :p :

The 'five year plan' might work afterall!

[Cloverleaf]

Maybe next year we can see Mitsubishi in top eight :)

[Iskald]

Petter and Chris without a drive.Very sad indeed.

Something is definitely brewing. Two different sources here in Norway, with close links to someone around Petter, tells me Petter is informed Subaru is closing down the WRC team. Announcements tomorrow - and it will be a shock decision, says same sources.

[muscrae]

Hard to believe...

[JRodrigues]

Hard to believe, since Subaru sales and shares are up this year!!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aAj_wQXT1JvI&refer=asia

[Wim]

smells like disaster..would love to see the blue again comming years..i follow them since day one..the alen-age

[alleskids]

Honda out of F1 (Japanese brand)
Suzuki out of WRC (Japan)
Subaru out of WRC as it seems (Japan)

The American and now the Japanese brands have gotten quite a hard punch from the crisis it seems.

[pettersolberg29]

Wonder IF all this happens:

1) Will Petter, Chris and the Suzuki boys all get privateer Fords?!
2) I'll have to change my damn name!

[MikeD]

If we assume that it's true, then couldn't one subaru team continue as an M2 team like Bozian did with the Peugeot 307 in 2006? I mean if Mads Østberg has enough funding for one seat, then it should be possible for one of the two top drivers (P.Solberg/Atkinson) to create the money for the other.

But it's definately a hard blow for the WRC especially because neither Stobart, Munchi's, PH-Sport or VM Motorsport has secured enough sponsorships for their second seats.

[Tomi]

And if I say that Ford and Citroen are going to quit WRC next friday, does that mean it's true?

no, but thats because you dont know anything.

[DonJippo]

Honda out of F1 (Japanese brand)
Suzuki out of WRC (Japan)
Subaru out of WRC as it seems (Japan)

The American and now the Japanese brands have gotten quite a hard punch from the crisis it seems.

Crisis yes but not the economical one...when was the last time any of these brands have won anything?

[alleskids]

Van Merksteijn has enough funding for both cars for father and son for 8 rallies (and qualify for MT2). Maye now some (newly) privateers could hire the car(s) for the other rallies that they skip.

[pettersolberg29]

Crisis yes but not the economical one...when was the last time any of these brands have won anything?


What's worrying is that Subaru were probably the last one to win!!

(When did Honda last win?)

[bf1_IRL]

Ford and Citroen already commited to 2009 pre WRGB if I remember correctly..

[MikeD]

(When did Honda last win?)

Hungarian GP 2006

[A.F.F.]

Why would Ford quit when they have Abu Dhabi backing them up? If prince Abu Dhabi wants to drive a WRC car, then he backs them up a little bit more and drive.

At RS, :laugh: Wilson's five year plan... who knew :D

[alleskids]

Subaru/Prodrive has Kuwaition money backing them up, so they should have enough oil money to make it.

[MikeD]

At RS, :laugh: Wilson's five year plan... who knew :D

Most people only needed one season to conclude that he's rubbish. Apparantly Stobart and VK are gonna spend money for 5 years to come to the same conslussion. Waste of time and waste of money.

[bennizw]

It seems a little strange that they are thinking of closing it down when the Kuwaits have bought up shares at Prodrive.. We'll have to wait and see!

[Tomi]

Look at it from the bright side guys, now Citroen has a good chance to sign another profile driver if they want.

[Tom206wrc]

Something is definitely brewing. Two different sources here in Norway, with close links to someone around Petter, tells me Petter is informed Subaru is closing down the WRC team. Announcements tomorrow - and it will be a shock decision, says same sources.



;( ;(

[Cloverleaf]

It seems a little strange that they are thinking of closing it down when the Kuwaits have bought up shares at Prodrive.. We'll have to wait and see!
According to Autoblog, they're beginning to think about selling their share of Aston Martin as well.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/15/aston-martin-back-up-for-sale/

Ever since, the grapevine has swirled regarding the future of Mr. Bond's favorite automaker, with the rumormill hitting a fever-pitch as of late with whispers that up to 20% of Dar's stake is available for bidding.

[MJW]

Aston Martin sales have been particularly badly affected by the global financial crisis.
This from a news feed.
Sales of new cars in the UK have fallen by 37 per cent in November, which are the worst sales figures in decades. This proves that customers are strapped for cash, and that the financial troubles are getting much worse than we first thought.

Only 100,333 of new vehicles were registered in the month of November, which is 36.8 per cent lower than the same period last year. Aston Martin, Rolls-Royce and Jaguar Land Rover are already feeling the effects of the fall in car sales, and have introduced Christmas shutdowns.

Aston Martin has already announced that they are to axe 600 jobs; Jaguar Land Rover will be laying off 850 IT and engineering staff. Roll-Royce is also axing 40 temporary workers, and have announced that they are extending their Christmas shutdown.

[Tomi]

Pirelli will likely bring next year 2 different types of tyres to events where they might be needed.

source mtv3

[MJW]

Pirelli will likely bring next year 2 different types of tyres to events where they might be needed.

source mtv3
1 for each manufacturer?

[Mirek]

Loool

Well, what else than humor remains...

[Tomi]

1 for each manufacturer?

1 for normal conditions, the other is just in case, like a snow tyre for GB.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I could see WRC amalgamating with IRC in 2010, with Eurosport the promotor.

[AndyRAC]

1 for each manufacturer?

Ooh, ouch!!

[cannyboy]

My guess is that they are pissed with the new rules.
Financially, they are sound.

Only manufacturer to maintain sales in 08 in the US, so money not the issue.

[Magnus]

Loeb is a the moment snow testing in Västerbotten, Sweden.
Business as usual obviously, at least for Cit.

[tmx]

Something is definitely brewing. Two different sources here in Norway, with close links to someone around Petter, tells me Petter is informed Subaru is closing down the WRC team. Announcements tomorrow - and it will be a shock decision, says same sources.
I'll probably have to pay attention to what you have to say from now on.

[Barreis]

Eurosport is a good promoter...

[Buzz Lightyear]

Look at it from the bright side guys, now Citroen has a good chance to sign another profile driver if they want. you are joking tomi...

[swordsman]

Hmm... Will Citroen and Ford retire after Subarus decision? Ford doesn't have a very good economy and them retiring for 2009 and back 2010 makes sense based on the economy and the fact that the car regulations will change.

However, what will come up next year? I don't think Henning will stay in Ford. My connections in France talk about him in a Bozian car, and maybe Petter as well after this decision.

[bf1_IRL]

Eurosport is a good promoter...

What!?

Putting Snooker and Tennis first, not distributing IRC, WTCC ect very well..
So no terrestrial coverage, NorthOne do distribute the WRC coverage as is..

Have you seen Eurosport's IRC coverage, it is cringeworthy with their trolley wheeled big perspex sheet with stickers plastered all over it, they have even done something similar with the microphone..

Sponsors in the WRC are given air time in a much more effective and subtle way the way things are at the moment.. ie. Not practically pushing the sponsor logo in your face..

The way they are running the IRC, They are only mentioning compeditors who have paid up eg. The Safari when Rautenbach won it.. He wasn't mentioned at all.. It was a Fiat victory as far as they were concerned.. They should be covering a rally, meaning all crews that are going for the win / points not coverage of who has paid up..

NorthOne mentions any crew that do well regardless of it is a privateer or not, regardless of what class or brand they are competing in..

If Eurosport becomes the promoter it would kill off what's left..
NorthOne need to get an advertising / marketing / promotional team going and continue what they are doing well, the TV coverage..

Rant over..
... and no I don't have any connection to North One

[RS]

What!?

Putting Snooker and Tennis first, not distributing IRC, WTCC ect very well..
So no terrestrial coverage, NorthOne do distribute the WRC coverage as is..

Have you seen Eurosport's IRC coverage, it is cringeworthy with their trolley wheeled big perspex sheet with stickers plastered all over it, they have even done something similar with the microphone..



You must have missed Rally du Valais...

WRC is not on terrestrial in the UK, it is on a digital channel specialising in repeats of old comedies, quite appropriate really ;)

[Buzz Lightyear]

This is not a rumour.. but more an observation.

DR has lost his midas touch.

The timing of the Aston Martin deal was atrocious
F1 deal went fluffy
Prodive couldnt sort out the S14, despite having a blank sheet of paper
Had to bail out of ISC.

I'll not be surprised to see layoffs at Prodrive, as their specialist enginnering division has to be feeling the pinch also.

[Xsara Fan]

However, what will come up next year? I don't think Henning will stay in Ford. My connections in France talk about him in a Bozian car, and maybe Petter as well after this decision.

BOZIAN????? With "some-years-old-slow-whale" Peugeot 307 WRC? Great choice! LOL

[swordsman]

BOZIAN????? With "some-years-old-slow-whale" Peugeot 307 WRC? Great choice! LOL

You shouldn't underestimate it. Believe me!

[MJW]

You shouldn't underestimate it. Believe me!

It wont be a whale............. Citroen only allow two private teams to run the C4, they being PHSport and Bozian.

[MJW]

Also Henning has said that next year he expects to be in a car that can win rallies, as he has spent the last two years in a Focus, I guess he was hinting that he is getting a C4.

[swordsman]

Well, we'll see guys. At least remember who told you ;)

[MJW]

Well, we'll see guys. At least remember who told you ;)
I agree with you I think it will be Bozian for Henning (& lillebror?) but I dont think it will be a 307, more likely a Bozian C4 with orange paint.

[Tomi]

I agree with you I think it will be Bozian for Henning (& lillebror?) but I dont think it will be a 307, more likely a Bozian C4 with orange paint.

That would be good news, to get 2 more competitive cars in the championship.

[Tomi]

Ford and Citroen are having emergency meeting today!!!

[swordsman]

Ford and Citroen are having emergency meeting today!!!

They should have. I would be surprised if mon-tue decisions wouldn't affect the rest of the championship. Most probably one of Citroen/Ford pulling out (and after that the other one) and maybe FIA cancellning the manu championship and only letting the drivers championship run I think that would be wise, to let all teams and free drivers prepare for '10 instead and a new, fresh charge.

[alexlake]

Ford and Citroen are having emergency meeting today!!!

Glad I aint booked no WRC events next year yet, prob be nowt to watch! :eek: :eek:

[jbmarcus21]

Solberg will announce in his blog, tomorrow the decision for his new team ...
http://www.pettersolberg.com/html/2008/12/16/subaru-trekker-seg-fra-vm-2009/?lang_pref=en

You think C4 Bozian with Henning no ?

[MJW]

Solberg will announce in his blog, tomorrow the decision for his new team ...
http://www.pettersolberg.com/html/2008/12/16/subaru-trekker-seg-fra-vm-2009/?lang_pref=en

You think C4 Bozian with Henning no ?
Adapta S15 run by Prodrive (with the new parts - unless the homologation is frozen now that Subaru are no longer a manufacturer team) or Bozian C4 are the two most likely options.

[s.loeb]

:) It will be great if we see Solberg Brothers in the Bozian Team.. :)

[Tom206wrc]

Bozian C4 ??? What about whales ??? :confused:

[BDunnell]

Is anyone else more excited about the prospect of a WRC featuring Solberg in something other than a Subaru? I certainly am.

[Englandsfahrer]

Is anyone else more excited about the prospect of a WRC featuring Solberg in something other than a Subaru? I certainly am.

Yes! I wanna see if he's still on top of his game. When he's really having a go, he's spectacular to watch.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Ford and Citroen are having emergency meeting today!!!

It looks like they have had their meeting and this is the response.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72508

Why are they so worried if Subaru are there or not? They never worried when they were there. Are they worried about public perception of dwindle numbers.... heloooooo?! 4 years to late.

[tmx]

Adapta S15 run by Prodrive (with the new parts - unless the homologation is frozen now that Subaru are no longer a manufacturer team) or Bozian C4 are the two most likely options.
Dear Santa:
Please let Petter be in a team that isn't Subaru.
Pleaseeeeee.

[Tom206wrc]

And what about Chris Atkinson/Stéphane Prévot ??? What team for them in 2009 :confused:

[Tomi]

It looks like they have had their meeting and this is the response.


so they gave the response before the meeting?

[Tom206wrc]

No news yet about Solberg(s)2009 plans ??? :confused:

[Viking]

No news yet about Solberg(s)2009 plans ??? :confused:

Well I don’t think there will be so many plans from Petter after one day of thinking.
He still employed by Subaru in 2009 so my guess is that it has to be an Subaru if he is allowed to rally (and keep his wages).
It would be a very small sum for Subaru to put him in the Adapta team and at least get the same results as in 2008.

[Tomi]

He still employed by Subaru in 2009 so my guess is that it has to be an Subaru if he is allowed to rally (and keep his wages).
It would be a very small sum for Subaru to put him in the Adapta team and at least get the same results as in 2008.

dont be so sure, its very likely that subaru has somekind of emergency clausule in the contract.

[Buzz Lightyear]

so they gave the response before the meeting?

its was 5pm yesterday evening... after they were due to meet for their crisis meeting? The wouldnt issue a "value for money" press release, then go to a crisis meeting, and pull out.

[Iskald]

:) It will be great if we see Solberg Brothers in the Bozian Team.. :)

It is highly unlikely that we will see Petter and Henning in the same team. Its a long time since they were "mates", and conflicts in the past will make it nearly impossible for them to cooperate in the same team.

Hennings "project" is not about running Bozian C4`s. You may well laugh, but it`s the whale he has set his eyes upon (as swordsman wrote yesterday!). FIA is willing to let him homologate new parts for the 307, and reengineer the car with a different weight-distribution, different dampers etc. etc. You may even laugh more, but Henning is confident he will be able to make the "new" 307 competitive. He still thinks it has the strongest engine and that his further ideas for developing the car will make it much quicker than it was. And no, he has not (to my knowledge) smoked funny substances lately.

You may say that Henning doesn`t lack courage and confidence in himself, or that he is completely bonkers. And both opinions could be correct...

[Tomi]

its was 5pm yesterday evening... after they were due to meet for their crisis meeting? The wouldnt issue a "value for money" press release, then go to a crisis meeting, and pull out.

It cant be a response from a meeting, if the press relase is published before the meeting.

[jonkka]

FIA is willing to let him homologate new parts for the 307

What? If that's true, it's a major shift in FIA policy which previously has limited homologations strictly to manufacturers alone and forbidding privateers from running the newest homologation. :eek:

[Tomi]

What? If that's true, it's a major shift in FIA policy which previously has limited homologations strictly to manufacturers alone and forbidding privateers from running the newest homologation. :eek:

im a bit sceptic about this as well, if its true what would prevent others to do the same.

[Buzz Lightyear]

It cant be a response from a meeting, if the press relase is published before the meeting.

what would be the sense in doing otherwise?

you said there was a meeting yesterday, and the ford press release was published at 5pm. does that not work for you?

[BDunnell]

What? If that's true, it's a major shift in FIA policy which previously has limited homologations strictly to manufacturers alone and forbidding privateers from running the newest homologation. :eek:

I'm not sure what I think about this. I've always disagreed with restricting privateers to older homologation, but allowing non-works teams to carry out their own homologations? On the one hand, it might allow a bit more variety — we have seen non-works outfits developing their own touring cars, and some, like the Team Dynamics Honda Integra, have been highly successful. That Honda provides a good parallel, actually, because it appeared at a time when works support in the British Touring Car Championship was severely lacking. If there had been a homologation requirement and it had stated that only manufacturers could homologate cars, the Integra wouldn't have happened. Given the lack of manufacturers in the WRC, relaxing the rules may make sense. But at the same time I must say I'm really unenthusiastic about the reappearance of a 307 in the WRC, because I wouldn't like it to become any more of a 'silhouette' formula than is already the case.

[Tomi]

what would be the sense in doing otherwise?

you said there was a meeting yesterday, and the ford press release was published at 5pm. does that not work for you?

No, the site you gave the link to published the article, Tuesday, December 16th 2008, 16:55 GMT, that means they have got it propably about 30min earlier, if the meeting was at 17.00, it cant be about what they have desided at the meeting.

[Buzz Lightyear]

No, the site you gave the link to published the article, Tuesday, December 16th 2008, 16:55 GMT, that means they have got it propably about 30min earlier, if the meeting was at 17.00, it cant be about what they have desided at the meeting. OK, we are splitting hairs as neither of us know what time the meeting was at. All I am saying it would be unwise of Ford to issue a press release committing to the championship, and singing its praises, then to attend a crisis meeting and do a 180.

[Tomi]

OK, we are splitting hairs as neither of us know what time the meeting was at. All I am saying it would be unwise of Ford to issue a press release committing to the championship, and singing its praises, then to attend a crisis meeting and do a 180.

i dont think anyone has said anything about that ford should quit, only that they was having a crisis meeting with citroen yesterday evening, the rest is your imagination.

[Gard]

What? If that's true, it's a major shift in FIA policy which previously has limited homologations strictly to manufacturers alone and forbidding privateers from running the newest homologation. :eek:

what involment from manufactorers are required? a signature? May be a formality.

and from info I have, 307 has homologated parts this year. Who has homologated them?

[Tom206wrc]

It is highly unlikely that we will see Petter and Henning in the same team. Its a long time since they were "mates", and conflicts in the past will make it nearly impossible for them to cooperate in the same team.

Hennings "project" is not about running Bozian C4`s. You may well laugh, but it`s the whale he has set his eyes upon (as swordsman wrote yesterday!). FIA is willing to let him homologate new parts for the 307, and reengineer the car with a different weight-distribution, different dampers etc. etc. You may even laugh more, but Henning is confident he will be able to make the "new" 307 competitive. He still thinks it has the strongest engine and that his further ideas for developing the car will make it much quicker than it was. And no, he has not (to my knowledge) smoked funny substances lately.

You may say that Henning doesn`t lack courage and confidence in himself, or that he is completely bonkers. And both opinions could be correct...



For a surprise... !!!! :crazy: :eek:


Edit: of course I would be delighted to see the return of the whale in WRC :p :

[Barreis]

Rallybuzz.com is doing great job!!!

[swordsman]

Quite recent tests of the 307WRC has been really competitive. The fact that it hasn't been running in the WRC for a while doesn't mean it's a bad car. Since Bozian took over it it has been steadily developed from the sh*t it was when it came to become a decent car with potential to be at least in the top five or maybe even higher in WRC events. I think it can (under perfect circumstances and with some luck) win rallies with some new parts in 2009, but that's just a guess not knowing what kind of parts we're talking abuot.