[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[mousti]

You've mis-read the post I said "I could easily see them (Bouffier and Sarrazin) entering AS WELL AS (in addition to) the VW team Fabias" not - IN a VW team Fabia. C'mon keep up, this seems like a wilful Benelux attempt to be Hellenic!!!!
I misread indeed, but that last part of your part I completely disagree.. But oh well..

[tolis]

Hayden Paddon wrote in a social network:
Currently in the UK, leaving for Spain tomorrow for a local gravel rally in the south of Spain, driving a Super 2000 car powered by a 2.2 litre turbo engine. Will be great fun! Then straight to Salou for the Monday PWRC test ahead of next weeks WRC rally. Still working hard on our 2012 plans but still trying to find the budget.

[tfp]

Hayden Paddon wrote in a social network:
Currently in the UK, leaving for Spain tomorrow for a local gravel rally in the south of Spain, driving a Super 2000 car powered by a 2.2 litre turbo engine. Will be great fun! Then straight to Salou for the Monday PWRC test ahead of next weeks WRC rally. Still working hard on our 2012 plans but still trying to find the budget.

Its BS that a driver with so much potential has to struggle to get a budget!
Hopefuly he will get sorted in time for next year.

[Mitch555]

Sorry Mirek I didn't quite explain my thoughts well enough. Would Skoda be supplying the same resources to Hanninen as they do in the IRC? IRC seems to be their focus rather than SWRC. Agree though that control tyres and control fuel are limiting factors. Also could be down to Hanninen not being used to running so far down the running order and getting more dust/ruts on gravel events and more gravel pulled out on the road in tarmac affecting his confidence a bit? I concede if anyone is going to know anything about the happenings with Skoda on this forum it would be you :P

[mousti]

Sorry Mirek I didn't quite explain my thoughts well enough. Would Skoda be supplying the same resources to Hanninen as they do in the IRC? IRC seems to be their focus rather than SWRC. Agree though that control tyres and control fuel are limiting factors. Also could be down to Hanninen not being used to running so far down the running order and getting more dust/ruts on gravel events and more gravel pulled out on the road in tarmac affecting his confidence a bit? I concede if anyone is going to know anything about the happenings with Skoda on this forum it would be you :P
I think so yes, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't do that especially when the main rival is driving another brand of car. It's their their works driver that's already connected to Skoda and the Brand is also shown on the car niceley so it's all good exposure for them if they win rallies there too and win the championship. Btw is it all MM who works on the car of Tanak or are there also Msport guys working on it?

[Plan9]

Its BS that a driver with so much potential has to struggle to get a budget!
Hopefuly he will get sorted in time for next year.

Any clue on the make of car?

[sollitt]

Look here;

http://www.rallyesdetierra.com/files/INSCRITOS_TIERRA_AND.pdf

[traxx]

Loeb will announce something on his future at Paul Ricard track 29&30 October when he will participate to GT-Tour with a Ferrari :
Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/Traxx_WiF/status/124015003132108800)

[noel157]

to correct previous misconceptions Kris M IS British (UK passport), from Northern Ireland; which if you describe him with more exact ethnicity makes him an Ulsterman, equivalent to Welsh, Scots and English. Paul Nagle comes from the Republic and is Irish. There are people living in Northern Ireland who don't consider themselves to be British and wouldn't be seen dead driving a car painted with a Union Flag - Kris isn't one of them. Social Geography lesson over ;) )

'fraid you are labouring under many misconceptions. Unless you understand the situation best not try and explain it to others.

[Viking]

Look here;

http://www.rallyesdetierra.com/files/INSCRITOS_TIERRA_AND.pdf

Run what you brung race???

[rage82]

Loeb will announce something on his future at Paul Ricard track 29&30 October when he will participate to GT-Tour with a Ferrari :
Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/Traxx_WiF/status/124015003132108800)

I found this: " Loeb devrait annoncer au Paul Ricard la création du "Sébastien Loeb Racing Team". What I read is that Loeb will create his own racing team for GT Tour 2012. He will buy a Porshe and will drive it occasionally.

[N.O.T]

so along with a part of PH sport he will now have a GT team...nice to see him preparing for the future when he will not drive.

[6789]

iRally has posted an interview with Haydon Paddon:
- He will compete in something different from PWRC in GB, he's going to announce after the rugby world cup finishes in NZ. My guess is Fiesta since his family has close ties with M-Sport.

- He's not looking to do IRC next year, but it's hopefully going to do SWRC with Monte dropped and home event in NZ included. If really lucky he will do an event or two in WRC.

- Next season is 700,000Euro; so not cheap

[noel157]

iRally has posted an interview with Haydon Paddon:
- He will compete in something different from PWRC in GB, he's going to announce after the rugby world cup finishes in NZ. My guess is Fiesta since his family has close ties with M-Sport.

- He's not looking to do IRC next year, but it's hopefully going to do SWRC with Monte dropped and home event in NZ included. If really lucky he will do an event or two in WRC.

- Next season is 700,000Euro; so not cheap

I wonder if that test in Spain was connected to this?
Will be interesting to see how he progresses. Usually PWRC leads to nowhere.

[dimviii]

I found this: " Loeb devrait annoncer au Paul Ricard la création du "Sébastien Loeb Racing Team". What I read is that Loeb will create his own racing team for GT Tour 2012. He will buy a Porshe and will drive it occasionally.

http://data.best-of-rallylive.com/uploads/2011/10/loeb-with-af-corse-300x200.jpg (http://data.best-of-rallylive.com/uploads/2011/10/loeb-with-af-corse.jpg)On his way back from Catalonia, Loeb will stop off at Le Castellet, in the south of France, where he is due to compete in a round of the Championnat de France des Circuits. His car will be a Ferrari 458 Italia prepared by the Italian team AF Corse, the recently-crowned GTE Pro champions in the 2011 Le Mans Series. The car will feature Red Bull livery.
“It’s an interesting, all-in package,” says the Alsace-born driver whose fellow driver will be named shortly. “I’ve already competed in GT racing, for pleasure, but this time I will have the means to fight for a good result. That’s the aim, anyway. I know the circuit, and a top-three finish would be nice.” Sébastien Loeb’s car will face competition from a long list of Porsche GT3-Rs, Mercedes SLSs, Audi R8 LMSs and other Ferrari F458s, as well as an Aston Martin DBRS9 and a Lamborghini Gallardo.
http://data.best-of-rallylive.com/uploads/2011/10/S%C3%A9bastien-Loeb-en-piste-avec-le-Sodi-STX_Photo-300x199.jpg (http://data.best-of-rallylive.com/uploads/2011/10/S%C3%A9bastien-Loeb-en-piste-avec-le-Sodi-STX_Photo.jpg)The seven-time World Rally Champion will profit from the occasion to reveal information about his Loeb Racing Team project.
Later in the year, Loeb will compete with Sébastien Ogier in the ERDF Master Kart at the Palais Omnisports de Paris-Bercy, France (December 10-11). The two Citroën drivers will race in electric Sodikart go-karts and will face competition from endurance aces like Benoît Tréluyer, Romain Dumas, Stéphane Sarrazin, Franck Montagny and Sébastien Bourdais

Loeb in a Ferrari, then karting in Paris | Best of Rally Live (http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/en/2011/10/12/loeb-in-a-ferrari-then-karting-in-paris/)

ps click at the photo with Loeb driving the kart,and see his arm

[AndyRAC]

Hmm, Dumas v Montagny could a little 'interesting' after Petit Le Mans....

[GigiGalliNo1]

€700,000 for WHOLE season? I think that is cheap!

[Barreis]

All this people really like Ken Block.
Photos du mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150314715017006&set=a.315524012005.143450.227651747005&type=1&theater)

[fastboy]

Ott Tanak will do GB in Fiesta WRC.

[Hartusvuori]

Ott Tanak will do GB in Fiesta WRC.

Source?

[focus206]

Instead, Ostberg will not do Rally GB. He chose to do Catalunya instead of GB to improve his asphalt skills...

[rp]

Ott Tanak will do GB in Fiesta WRC.

Not a big surprise. Definitely it is time to step to the big boys league. Tänak is able to make same kind of performance like Ogier in GB 2008...

[Mintexmemory]

Instead, Ostberg will not do Rally GB. He chose to do Catalunya instead of GB to improve his asphalt skills...
Interesting that my prediction may be coming true, but they're dropping the wrong Stobart driver for GB ;-)
Interesting to see how a 2 year plan compares to the 5+ year plan, I've a feeling this will be curtains for (not so young anymore) Matthew

[Hartusvuori]

Interesting that my prediction may be coming true, but they're dropping the wrong Stobart driver for GB ;-)

Nobody's dropping any Stobart drivers. They pay their drives.

[Mintexmemory]

Ostberg yes, but surely Ott gets this ride as part of his contract

[Allar]

Rally good news!

[N.O.T]

a step towards the good direction...

lets hope he will make full use of it.

[Barreis]

Don't believe that Ostberg will miss GB.

[jbmarcus21]

Ott Tanak will drive Rally GB in Fiesta WRc !!!!!!!!!!!
News Rallyes 2011 (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/newsrallyes2011.htm)

[mousti]

Humiliate Wilson!!!

[tfp]

Interesting that my prediction may be coming true, but they're dropping the wrong Stobart driver for GB ;-)
Interesting to see how a 2 year plan compares to the 5+ year plan, I've a feeling this will be curtains for (not so young anymore) Matthew

Hes only 24, not exactly an OAP :D

[ZequeArgentina]

Munchi´s will be in WRC in 2012.

Link: rallynoticias.com (http://www.rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?lang=es&id_noticia=4620)

It states that Perz Companc brothers will quit their team, considering the have already developed their passion at the highest level.

I think it is reasonable, when Luis Perez Companc drove, he reached a speed not slow fro someone who just started to run rally cars at age of 36, and then his brother just enjoy navigating Villagra.

[Plan9]

Munchi´s will be in WRC in 2012.

Link: rallynoticias.com (http://www.rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?lang=es&id_noticia=4620)

It states that Perz Companc brothers will quit their team, considering the have already developed their passion at the highest level.

I think it is reasonable, when Luis Perez Companc drove, he reached a speed not slow fro someone who just started to run rally cars at age of 36, and then his brother just enjoy navigating Villagra.

Who will drive that car? What rounds will they compete? Unfortunately I cannot translate that page into English. It will be cool to see that car more often as I think that the livery is awesome!!!

[Plan9]

€700,000 for WHOLE season? I think that is cheap!

That 700,000 Euro (if that is the amount he needs) equates to about $1.2 Million (NZD) according to XE Currency Converter. The recession has bitten hard in NZ & I am not sure if anyone down here would be open to offering that level of largess at the moment. I do not know if Hayden will be able to find that much in such a short period of time; unless of course he is picked up by a Red Bull or a Monster Energy or M-Sport Stobart. Coincidentally Possum found it hard to fund his drives with Subaru in the 1990s despite that being a time of prosperity.

[Mintexmemory]

Hes only 24, not exactly an OAP :D
Yeah, but he has to shave now! The coming guys look like they've been let out of school for the Rally ;-)

[Maui J.]

€700,000 for WHOLE season? I think that is cheap!

Cheap! Lets put that into perspective... I'll do in in Australian dollars so you can relate to it.
700000 Euro is Aus$950000. The average house price in Melbourne in 2010 was Aus$499000. So basicallly you are talking about 1.9 houses in Melbourne. Most mortgages are around 25 years for repayment. You still think 7 rounds of the SWRC at 100000 Euro per round is cheap?
Plus I doubt after those 7 rounds you get to keep the car. At least after a 25 year mortgage you get to keep the house.

[6789]

700,000 Euros is probably for the car and stuff. Travel and accom would be extra I'd imagine. They biggest difficulties for Aus/NZ companies to sponsor a car which runs in Europe mostly doesn't give good returns. Be said he's working on a major EU backer

[AndyRAC]

Well the Toyota WRC rumours are no more. They've decided that the new WEC/Le Mans is more relevant to them with hybrid technology. Good luck...

[Barreis]

160€/km SS is fabia s2000 (tyres included). So it's 64 000€ per event. 8 events is 512 000€. But if you rent the car for more events then it's cheaper (one event is free).

[Bobcat]

Well the Toyota WRC rumours are no more. They've decided that the new WEC/Le Mans is more relevant to them with hybrid technology. Good luck...

Toyota announces 2012 Le Mans return with hybrid LMP1 car - Le Mans news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95341)

[MJW]

Toyota announces 2012 Le Mans return with hybrid LMP1 car - Le Mans news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95341) Could that leave Subaru free to return to WRC? Afterall Peugeot / Audi do endurance whilst sister brands Citroen and VW do WRC, maybe I am just hoping that Subaru now returns to rallying as Toyota are clearly "racers"

[noel157]

It maybe make a WRC return less likely but it may not preclude the option altogether. You never know.

[AndyRAC]

It maybe make a WRC return less likely but it may not preclude the option altogether. You never know.

Possibly – but I think it was one or the other. Toyota in Japan wanted a Sportscar/Le Mans as that is unfinished business. Toyota in Cologne, obviously wanted a WRC program.
Sportscars are more proactive regards road car technology – and running a petrol hybrid suits their aims.
Just why WRC has never investigated diesels, hybrids, etc is something that needs to be questioned.

[ZequeArgentina]

Munchi´s will be in WRC in 2012.

Link: rallynoticias.com (http://www.rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?lang=es&id_noticia=4620)

It states that Perz Companc brothers will quit their team, considering the have already developed their passion at the highest level.

I think it is reasonable, when Luis Perez Companc drove, he reached a speed not slow for someone who just started to run rally cars at age of 36, and then his brother just enjoy navigating Villagra.

Sorry, I miss typed some words, this should be the correct one:


Munchi´s will not be in WRC in 2012.

Link: rallynoticias.com (http://www.rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?lang=es&id_noticia=4620)

It states that Perz Companc brothers will quit their team, considering the have already developed their passion at the highest level.

I think it is reasonable, when Luis Perez Companc drove, he reached a speed not slow for someone who just started to run rally cars at age of 36, and then his brother just enjoy navigating Villagra.[/

[Barreis]

It's a big difference in words. :D

[alleskids]

Munchi´s will be in WRC in 2012.

Link: rallynoticias.com (http://www.rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?lang=es&id_noticia=4620)

It states that Perz Companc brothers will quit their team, considering the have already developed their passion at the highest level.

I think it is reasonable, when Luis Perez Companc drove, he reached a speed not slow fro someone who just started to run rally cars at age of 36, and then his brother just enjoy navigating Villagra.

My Google translates it as a goodbye to WRC after Catalunya 2011 :( , no more Munchi's in WRC

The 36 points scored last year for Villagra in the competition, have made ​​clear the evolution of this year's squad that reached 4 classifications and after a hiatus of several months, up to Catalonia, to say goodbye to the Ford Fiesta that keeps the colors of this Novelty Focus with Luis Perez Companc began the story. an Argentine team is dismissed. Hopefully from the private sector remain so based initiatives like this, because otherwise, the national flag will add many years of absence. MG Rallynoticias.com

[MikeD]

My Google translates it as a goodbye to WRC after Catalunya 2011 :( , no more Munchi's in WRC

I think they have to do Rally GB as well because they are commited to do 8 rounds and Catalunya is "only" their 7th round. I think they will be disqualified for their manufacturer points if they don't do Rally GB.

[fastboy]

Abu Dhabi have got Evgeny Novikov in there car in GB to replace Al Qassimi who will be out of action because of operation.

[Plan9]

My Google translates it as a goodbye to WRC after Catalunya 2011 :( , no more Munchi's in WRC

The 36 points scored last year for Villagra in the competition, have made ​​clear the evolution of this year's squad that reached 4 classifications and after a hiatus of several months, up to Catalonia, to say goodbye to the Ford Fiesta that keeps the colors of this Novelty Focus with Luis Perez Companc began the story. an Argentine team is dismissed. Hopefully from the private sector remain so based initiatives like this, because otherwise, the national flag will add many years of absence. MG Rallynoticias.com

That is very sad. I really hope Argentina and/or Villagra can continue to get coverage in the sport. In my opinion Argentina has been underrated as a classic WRC event. I hope the Brazil operation can expand as they seem to have a bit of money and can keep South America associated with the WRC.

[Plan9]

700,000 Euros is probably for the car and stuff. Travel and accom would be extra I'd imagine. They biggest difficulties for Aus/NZ companies to sponsor a car which runs in Europe mostly doesn't give good returns. Be said he's working on a major EU backer

+1. Which EU backer is this?

[Plan9]

Abu Dhabi have got Evgeny Novikov in there car in GB to replace Al Qassimi who will be out of action because of operation.

I think this is an interesting choice considering Tanak is probably also available.
Does team Abu Dhabi run the same spec car as Mikko & Jari Matti? I know that they have the same livery....

[Mitch555]

Could that leave Subaru free to return to WRC? Afterall Peugeot / Audi do endurance whilst sister brands Citroen and VW do WRC, maybe I am just hoping that Subaru now returns to rallying as Toyota are clearly "racers"

It is already highly likely Subaru will return. They have just massively changed their lineup.

Subaru Impreza - 2.0L 4WD
Subaru WRX - 1.6L 4WD

The Subaru WRX comes as an STI. There is really no reason why Subaru would bother making a 1.6L 4WD road car, plus 'downgrade' the Impreza to a road car and change their sport variant to a new model called the WRX (taken from the Impreza...). The only reason would be for WRC purposes to have a car once again closely related to the WRC Car, like Group A.

We should see Subaru back in a couple of year. Probably run by Tommi Makinen who still has very close ties with Subaru Japan with the development of the R4 Impreza. My bet is Petter will also be highly involved, with some of his management coming across to help with the effort. I would think Subaru Japan would also go for a higher involvement this time and try to integrate with Tommi, rather than what happened with Prodrive.

[6789]

+1. Which EU backer is this?

No idea sorry, someone really big hopefully :)

[PLuto]

€700,000 for WHOLE season? I think that is cheap!

All WRC events are very expensive, also SWRC (and in the past it was same with PWRC, JWRC and now WRC Academy). This is biggest problem for all WRC events and championships...

[PLuto]

160€/km SS is fabia s2000 (tyres included). So it's 64 000€ per event. 8 events is 512 000€. But if you rent the car for more events then it's cheaper (one event is free).

Depends on situation. It is not easy to compare tarmac event with gravel event, for example Monte (with changing conditions) is more expensive than for example Deutschland. But for cheaper price than Barreis wrote you can do IRC event with fully factory car...

[6789]

Yeah for WRC its 16,000 Euro entry fee per event? That's alot of money!!

[Barreis]

It's better to buy a car in that money. After all car stays for another season and for rent to other drivers (what Longhi does for years).

[Barreis]

Yeah for WRC its 16,000 Euro entry fee per event? That's alot of money!!

As a private entrant you have to pay 6000€ (without organiser advertising) or 3000 or 2500 (with that advertising).

[Barreis]

Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2569899530026&set=a.1057359637474.2009751.1330368751&type=1&theater)

[MJW]

Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2569899530026&set=a.1057359637474.2009751.1330368751&type=1&theater)
????? no link

[Barreis]

Maybe you can not open it 'cos no friendship with that person. It's polo wrc, story about KKK and first tests in december.

[MJW]

Maybe you can not open it 'cos no friendship with that person. It's polo wrc, story about KKK and first tests in december.
Thanks for explaining.

[Barreis]

No problem.

[dimviii]

Thanks for explaining.
lolololol

Come on Barreis tell us moaaaarr!!

[Barreis]

Under the picture of polo wrc (on the sea marine) says (italian): KKK vorrebbe farla debuttare al prealpi master show a dicembre come test.

[polo10]

Depends on situation. It is not easy to compare tarmac event with gravel event, for example Monte (with changing conditions) is more expensive than for example Deutschland. But for cheaper price than Barreis wrote you can do IRC event with fully factory car...

Is it cheaper? don t think so, fully factory car???? tell me

[tolis]

It seems that also Stobart is leaving WRC next year.
Source: [url=http://www.autosportfoto.sk/spravodajstvo/clanok/timy-stobart-a-munchi-s-po-sezone-koncia]Autosportfoto.sk :: TÃ*my Stobart a Munchi’s po sezóne konÄ

[Mise]

It is already highly likely Subaru will return. They have just massively changed their lineup.

Subaru Impreza - 2.0L 4WD
Subaru WRX - 1.6L 4WD

The Subaru WRX comes as an STI. There is really no reason why Subaru would bother making a 1.6L 4WD road car, plus 'downgrade' the Impreza to a road car and change their sport variant to a new model called the WRX (taken from the Impreza...). The only reason would be for WRC purposes to have a car once again closely related to the WRC Car, like Group A.

We should see Subaru back in a couple of year. Probably run by Tommi Makinen who still has very close ties with Subaru Japan with the development of the R4 Impreza. My bet is Petter will also be highly involved, with some of his management coming across to help with the effort. I would think Subaru Japan would also go for a higher involvement this time and try to integrate with Tommi, rather than what happened with Prodrive.


I really like things to go as said in this post...

[bluuford]

[quote="tolis"]It seems that also Stobart is leaving WRC next year.
Source: [url=http://www.autosportfoto.sk/spravodajstvo/clanok/timy-stobart-a-munchi-s-po-sezone-koncia]Autosportfoto.sk :: TÃ*my Stobart a Munchi’s po sezóne konÄ

[Mitch555]

[quote="tolis"]It seems that also Stobart is leaving WRC next year.
Source: [url=http://www.autosportfoto.sk/spravodajstvo/clanok/timy-stobart-a-munchi-s-po-sezone-koncia]Autosportfoto.sk :: TÃ*my Stobart a Munchi’s po sezóne konÄ

[focus206]

Not surprising. Stobart wouldn't have been getting much out of it. Depending on who can get the budget, the B Team could be made up of Henning Solberg and Ken Block, maybe Tanak. The situation of Petter changing over to a Ford also might be a little more likely if he can gain a bit more autonomy than Stobart under a B-Team, plus he can share information with his brother. So maybe we'll see Solberg x2 and Block running a team perhaps...

You're forgetting Ostberg. The article says that Stobart may be replaced by the Adapta Team, so Ostberg would have certainly a seat. Maybe Henning could join the team, but I really don't see Petter joining a B-Team...
About Block, I still think he will not do many events in 2012, if any.
But obviously it's just a theory, never say never.

[fastboy]

There will be no team running under the stobart name next year,but Ostberg and Wilson should hopefully be team mates under a different name next year !

[N.O.T]

yes it would be a pity not to have Slowson disgracing the sport for another year...

[tolis]

Evgeniy Novikov is testing DS3 WRC for Spain

http://www.almrally.ru/imagelib/ALM%20Rally%20TEAM/ds3wrc/2011_10_16_Novikov_5.jpg

[jbmarcus21]

Stobart retires from WRC Stobart-Abschiedstour beginnt*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://bit.ly/owORmS)

[Bobcat]

Evgeniy Novikov is testing DS3 WRC for Spain

http://www.almrally.ru/imagelib/ALM%20Rally%20TEAM/ds3wrc/2011_10_16_Novikov_5.jpg

Novikov joins Ford Abu Dhabi WRT for season finale (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/846-russian-prospect-novikov-joins-ford-abu-dhabi-wrt-for-season-finale)

"Abu Dhabi Tourism Authority (ADTA) has agreed a one-rally deal with Evgeniy Novikov, one of off-road motorsport’s bright, young talents, to pilot Ford Abu Dhabi World Rally Team’s third Ford Fiesta RS World Rally Car at next month’s Wales Rally GB – the 2011 World Rally Championship (WRC) season finale."

[Barreis]

One more crash.

[Allyc85]

One more crash.

Im only going to Rally GB for Saturday and Sunday, I dont think I will get to see him somehow!!

[Mitch555]

You're forgetting Ostberg. The article says that Stobart may be replaced by the Adapta Team, so Ostberg would have certainly a seat. Maybe Henning could join the team, but I really don't see Petter joining a B-Team...
About Block, I still think he will not do many events in 2012, if any.
But obviously it's just a theory, never say never.

I'm not sure about Ostberg. Though B-Teams are allowed to drop two rounds (Kimi dropped 3), which will free Ostberg's budget up a little. He still will need to make the choice of taking the car to one international event, either Mexico, Argentina or NZ. I'm not sure how much the withdrawl of Stobart is going to impact his ability to have the funds to get the car out of Europe. Ostberg is missing GB, and has missed Australia, so he's been able to miss 2 rounds like a B-Team would, and has spent more by getting the car to Mexico and Argentina. How much did Stobart subsidise the overseas transport? And will Ostberg be able to get the same commitment from Adapta as well as other sponsored for 2012? If he can't do GB due to lack of sponsorship I'm not sure how well he'll do attracting sponsors for 2012. He'll be going back to the same sponsors and looking for a season commitment rather than one rally. A much bigger commitment. I do hope he can get the funds though.

Henning has somehow kept the money going all these years. He'll be a part of some B-Team, whether he gets in contact with FERM, or puts some Monster branding on his car. He has Expert, Samsung and Ludo all behind him at the moment. Samsung might share its money with Block as they would get something out of that relationship. I put Petter up as moving to a Ford and creating a B-Team mainly because the Ford is well known to be cheaper than the Citroen, Monster Energy would only be interested in the most charismatic of WRC drivers to go alongside Ken Block (Petter has those attributes). Plus he already has some sponsorship behind him. Another long shot is Team Solberg.

I think there is really no doubt that Wilson won't be around, if he is, his car will be very empty on the outside.

Wilson - Likely gone
Ostberg - 50/50
H Solberg - 70%
P Solberg - 90%
Block - 100%

Block has stated before that he wants to concentrate solely on WRC as it is his main focus, and main desire, Gymkhana is just a game to him, he wants to be taken seriously. His latest Gymkhana might be its swansong as it was very over the top, and he did a tour for it. Maybe one last Gymkhana, then he'll make rallying videos and such forth.

[focus206]

Wilson - Likely gone
Ostberg - 50/50
H Solberg - 70%
P Solberg - 90%
Block - 100%

Henning said he have secured the budget for a full/almost full 2012 season, so I'd put on him a 90%-100%.
I read Ostberg will do Catalunya instead of GB because he wants to improve on tarmac for the future, so I guess he has a bit of budget for 2012, but it's just my analysis.
I'm not sure about Petter... a Fiesta is chaper than a DS3, but it's hard to see him joining a Ford B-Team apart from his own team...

[pantealex]

Östberg is not missing Wales, he has number 6 (Stobart) in FIA-list for manufacturers entry

[skarderud]

i heard one of the days that østbergs budget for last two rounds, and for whole next season is OK.
good news for all :)

[focus206]

If it's like this, then very good. I read that he was planning to do Catalunya instead of GB, but if he found the budget also for GB, good :)

[mousti]

Kevin Abbring is selected to do drive for VW with the Fabia Super 2000 in Wales!!!

[focus206]

Kevin Abbring is selected to do drive for VW with the Fabia Super 2000 in Wales!!!

Great! I really hoped he had a chance from VW! :)

[Barreis]

I'm not sure about Ostberg. Though B-Teams are allowed to drop two rounds (Kimi dropped 3), which will free Ostberg's budget up a little. He still will need to make the choice of taking the car to one international event, either Mexico, Argentina or NZ. I'm not sure how much the withdrawl of Stobart is going to impact his ability to have the funds to get the car out of Europe. Ostberg is missing GB, and has missed Australia, so he's been able to miss 2 rounds like a B-Team would, and has spent more by getting the car to Mexico and Argentina. How much did Stobart subsidise the overseas transport? And will Ostberg be able to get the same commitment from Adapta as well as other sponsored for 2012? If he can't do GB due to lack of sponsorship I'm not sure how well he'll do attracting sponsors for 2012. He'll be going back to the same sponsors and looking for a season commitment rather than one rally. A much bigger commitment. I do hope he can get the funds though.

Henning has somehow kept the money going all these years. He'll be a part of some B-Team, whether he gets in contact with FERM, or puts some Monster branding on his car. He has Expert, Samsung and Ludo all behind him at the moment. Samsung might share its money with Block as they would get something out of that relationship. I put Petter up as moving to a Ford and creating a B-Team mainly because the Ford is well known to be cheaper than the Citroen, Monster Energy would only be interested in the most charismatic of WRC drivers to go alongside Ken Block (Petter has those attributes). Plus he already has some sponsorship behind him. Another long shot is Team Solberg.

I think there is really no doubt that Wilson won't be around, if he is, his car will be very empty on the outside.

Wilson - Likely gone
Ostberg - 50/50
H Solberg - 70%
P Solberg - 90%
Block - 100%

Block has stated before that he wants to concentrate solely on WRC as it is his main focus, and main desire, Gymkhana is just a game to him, he wants to be taken seriously. His latest Gymkhana might be its swansong as it was very over the top, and he did a tour for it. Maybe one last Gymkhana, then he'll make rallying videos and such forth.

Wilson won't be gone.

[Mintexmemory]

Great! I really hoped he had a chance from VW! :)
+1

[noel157]

Kevin Abbring is selected to do drive for VW with the Fabia Super 2000 in Wales!!!

Excellent news.

[not12listen]

my wife and i have ventured a guess that Petter is to be signed by VW for 2012, as they'd want an experienced driver to put down some very solid results - and Petter wants a solid seat with factory backing.

we've also guessed that Ford will drop Mikko (his results have not impressed) and he'll be the 2nd driver in VW.

Ford would then pickup Ogier. Ogier and Latvala would be allowed to fight out the entire season tooth and nail, with the 1 'rule' that they finish as many rallies as possible (ie. do not crash out to beat your team mate).

and then it is RUMORED that Saab and Toyota are coming back into WRC. admittedly, the chances of Saab coming back in are slim... Toyota already has the prototype vehicle last i saw - Yaris (US name) which will use much of the same running gear as the Corolla that ran in the Australian Rally Championship (with the engine fitting to the current 1.6L Turbo spec of course).

but, again... all rumor and guesswork so far...

----

a few links to help fuel the Saab fire... :)

http://www.worldcarfans.com/110080927832/saab-to-enter-wrc-in-2012

http://www.rallybuzz.com/saab-wrc-2012/

http://www.rallybuzz.com/saab-linked-wrc-2012/

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Industry-News/Yet-more-for-the-WRC/


and a bit of fuel for the Toyota fire... :)

http://www.rallybuzz.com/toyota-vw-wrc-meetings/

http://www.insideline.com/toyota/toyota-mulls-return-to-le-mans-wrc.html

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=912

[AP-Racing]

I heard that some people of FIA supports the idea to create more long cross-border events like Germany/France, Sweden/Norway, Finland/Russia, Poland/Czech Republic etc...

Mirek, Finland/Russia - it's impossible, because our customs service working very long and make big problem for quickest crossed border

[rv65]

Toyota could join the WRC, as the TTE facilities are quite big. I don't think they will join the WRC. It seems as if LeMans is their future.

[Roy]

Kevin Abbring is selected to do drive for VW with the Fabia Super 2000 in Wales!!!

Do you have a source? I can't find it on http://www.kevinabbring.com and http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com also.

[mm1]

There`s an article in rallye-magazin that Toyota & Hyundai is coming to WRC, but no hard facts: rallye-magazin1 (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/10/18/hyundai-und-toyota-kommen/index.html)
Also Kevin Abbring & young Sepp Wiegand in VW Skoda for UK: rallye-magazin2 (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/10/19/wiegand-bekommt-vw-chance/index.html)

[Allar]

Just last week i heard that Toyota went for other sports.

[Roy]

Press release should be out today. The other is a German driver again.

Yes it is! http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/news/index.php?&flash=ok&lg=e&st=588&id=4734
Great! Another dutchman drive for Volkswagen

[mm1]

As I understand Toyota is up for both, because WRC has exposure for almost the whole year, whereas Le Mans is just a one race horse, at least globaly recognised and on paar with WRC, other sportscar events are lower profile than WRC.

[Motorsportfun]

Well, from next year the Le Mans 24 Hours will be the crucial point in the Endurance World Championship, which will spread the exposure for almost the whole year too...

[dimviii]

Yes it is! http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/web/news/index.php?&flash=ok&lg=e&st=588&id=4734
Great! Another dutchman drive for Volkswagen


The German firm's decision not to test any British drivers had been telegraphed after motorsport director Kris Nissen admitted he could see nobody from Britain worthy of a VW run on their home round of the World Rally Championship.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95521

something not going right at vw imho....

[gravelman]

NotBritish, but here in Ireland we have a two time BRC champion, who beat Craig Breen in his s2000 in a horrible gp n Subaru n14. Elfyn Evans or David Bogie might have bee equally good choices, but if VW wanted someone from the British Isles to impress them, Keith Cronin was the man to do it. A reckless decision from a team which clearly only wants salesmen on wheels from large markets. Think of what it would have done for the profile of the sport to have David Bogie and Keith Cronin in the two cars, but alas this was-only ever a pipe dream.

[Roy]

They should have given the chance to Wiegand in Spain, in stead of 2x Riedemann, who won't do much better now I think... The first guy I was thinking about for Wales was Craig Breen. He proved to be fast in the IRC (Barum and Scotland) already.

I think Irishman Breen has a contract with M-sport. He works still at Dovenby Hall?

[rp]

Weird choices...

Maybe Abring has some future, but definitely it is too early for Wiegand.

I am starting to be skeptical about Kris Nissen´s ability to lead the WRC team. Definitely there would have been many other drivers available like Hayden Paddon or Jarkko Nikara (both of them would have deserved the opportunity)...

[Mirek]

With Wiegand it's definitely not earlier than with Ogier in 2007 when Citroën brought him from local Peugeot XS Cup. Sometimes You have to gamble if You want to find the diamond ;)

[dimviii]

Weird choices...

Maybe Abring has some future, but definitely it is too early for Wiegand.

I am starting to be skeptical about Kris Nissen´s ability to lead the WRC team. Definitely there would have been many other drivers available like Hayden Paddon or Jarkko Nikara (both of them would have deserved the opportunity)...

i didn t mean Abring...

[dimviii]

With Wiegand it's definitely not earlier than with Ogier in 2007 when Citroën brought him from local Peugeot XS Cup. Sometimes You have to gamble if You want to find the diamond ;)
Its not quite the same with Ogier.Wiegand at 1st day at France was on par with Cerny.In every ss was from 10 to 20 sec slower from the r2 winner.He finished day 1 4min 12 sec behind fastest r2 fiesta.At day 2 was 7 minutes behind fastest fiesta with same pace at ss as day 1.
I really stragle to see any potential from this guy.

In his home rally the same situation.
Ogier wasn t 20-30 sec slower from guys with same car before ffsa/citroen grab him. ;)

same ''choices'' vw had do when they were competed at wrc with golf g60 4x4.Guess the results.
Ok these drivers are not the drivers are going to be the official polo crews,but i really can t find ANY logic in these choices....

[tolis]

VW tries hard to find the best German driver. That's all. So, they try almost all the available young German drivers.

[dimviii]

VW tries hard to find the best German driver. That's all. So, they try almost all the available young German drivers.

did you see somebody fast from Germany the last 20 years? :D

[gravelman]

I think Irishman Breen has a contract with M-sport. He works still at Dovenby Hall?

I'm living in the same city as him, and his Dads business is down the road from where I am living. From what I know, he is working for the family business, as he is regularly at the local motor club meetings. That would be a difficult commute from Cumbria.

[darkstar]

you dont know anything about wiegand, dont judge him for the results he showed at the academy rallyes(witch werent so special, i admit that, had expected a bit more too. but he also had technical problems and i´m not sure if his funding allowed him to really push, still not so special results, shure). he only did 1 rallye in the fiesta before germany. before he only drove a lupo gti and a swift n2. it is his first season in rallyeing...last year he drove 3 or 4 small rallyes in germany and now has driven 19 rallyes in his life ever, most of them had under 150 ss km, some even only 35 km. so not mutch experience. and here in germany he had extremely good results, beating up a lot of drivers in his group n swift. also in french swift cup he set all besttimes on 2nd day at ralyle rouergue, and even was faster then the twingo r1 cup drivers on some stages. he almost always finished first in his class this year: http://www.seppwiegand.com/erfolge.html he already is faster or equally fast as riedemann, who has mutch, mutch more experience. its the first german driver formany years who has not this "main aim is to finish and get experience, bla bla bla" ability, he wants to push.

before he did motocross, was european champion in cross country and so on...

so for me he´s the best young talented driver germany has to offer at the moment. and i´m really happy that vw also recognized this. if they want a german, they should choose him, give him a drive in swrc with maximum attack allowed and maybe german rallye championchip or french, czech or what ever in the fabia, let him take part at the polo tests and then if he proves to be good, give him a drive in the wrc 2013 in the vw b team. maybe 2014 he´s on top then...

so, i´m very happy with vw´s choise(maybe it´s because im german, shure, but finnish fans also seemed to be happy with lindroos, witch almost noone had ever heard from before). but i also share tommeke_B´s opinion, they should have let wiegand drive in spain instead of riedemann and give the wales drive to someone else. what i dont really understand is, why they give riedemann that 2nd drive. it´s not that i dont like him or so, but he had his chance this year...

[AndyRAC]

I'd agree with an earlier poster who has doubts about VW Motorsport boss Kris Nissen; he's hardly Dr Ulrich of Audi is he? If VW want to succeed, they may need to get a new Motorsport boss.

VW have run local drivers in Finland, Germany & Spain. So why not GB? Abbring is a good driver, so I can see the sense in that, but the other driver has only been Rallying for a short period of time. You can't tell me he's better than some of the British/ Irish youngsters.....

[darkstar]

you dont know anything about wiegand, dont judge him for the results he showed at the academy rallyes(witch werent so special, i admit that, had expected a bit more too. but he also had technical problems and i´m not sure if his funding allowed him to really push, still not so special results, shure). he only did 1 rallye in the fiesta before germany. before he only drove a lupo gti and a swift n2. it is his first season in rallyeing...last year he drove 3 or 4 small rallyes in germany and now has driven 19 rallyes in his life ever, most of them had under 150 ss km, some even only 35 km. so not mutch experience. and here in germany he had extremely good results, beating up a lot of drivers in his group n swift. also in french swift cup he set all besttimes on 2nd day at ralyle rouergue, and even was faster then the twingo r1 cup drivers on some stages. he almost always finished first in his class this year: http://www.seppwiegand.com/erfolge.html he already is faster or equally fast as riedemann, who has mutch, mutch more experience. its the first german driver formany years who has not this "main aim is to finish and get experience, bla bla bla" ability, he wants to push.

before he did motocross, was european champion in cross country and so on...

so for me he´s the best young talented driver germany has to offer at the moment. and i´m really happy that vw also recognized this. if they want a german, they should choose him, give him a drive in swrc with maximum attack allowed and maybe german rallye championchip or french, czech or what ever in the fabia, let him take part at the polo tests and then if he proves to be good, give him a drive in the wrc 2013 in the vw b team. maybe 2014 he´s on top then...

so, i´m very happy with vw´s choise(maybe it´s because im german, shure, but finnish fans also seemed to be happy with lindroos, witch almost noone had ever heard from before). but i also share tommeke_B´s opinion, they should have let wiegand drive in spain instead of riedemann and give the wales drive to someone else. what i dont really understand is, why they give riedemann that 2nd drive. it´s not that i dont like him or so, but he had his chance this year...

[tfp]

did you see somebody fast from Germany the last 20 years? :D

I can think of at least two who go around in circles a lot :D

[AndyRAC]

I can think of at least two who go around in circles a lot :D

Yeah, Timo Bernhard & Mike Rockenfeller...... ;)

[Mirek]

Its not quite the same with Ogier.Wiegand at 1st day at France was on par with Cerny.In every ss was from 10 to 20 sec slower from the r2 winner.He finished day 1 4min 12 sec behind fastest r2 fiesta.At day 2 was 7 minutes behind fastest fiesta with same pace at ss as day 1.
I really stragle to see any potential from this guy.

In his home rally the same situation.
Ogier wasn t 20-30 sec slower from guys with same car before ffsa/citroen grab him. ;)

same ''choices'' vw had do when they were competed at wrc with golf g60 4x4.Guess the results.
Ok these drivers are not the drivers are going to be the official polo crews,but i really can t find ANY logic in these choices....

It's too harsh to compare first WRC start of Wiegand and Ogier. One run private R2 car with probably very little funding and testing. The other run full factory S1600 after several months of testing with factory team.

The logic is there. They try to find German driver who may be fast in the future because there is no-one fast enough in present. Simple as that. Believe me that what they want to see is not same what You can see from results, it's about much more things like cooperation with team, feedback from car, ability to improve etc.

In the end it's their money and it's not one of the two main seats in the team so what is wrong with that? Instead of being happy that there is finally a works team which gives chance to young drivers to drive their third car there is still some "what a stupid choice" blabala.

And last thing... Judging purely by numbers in results from one or two events is often very inaccurate because You miss many important information behind those times. Just as an example with drive of Černý in France which You picked up. You don't know that there were problems with crankshaft sensor all rally...

[tfp]

Yeah, Timo Bernhard & Mike Rockenfeller...... ;)

:D That wasnt who I was thinking, but, yeah, the Endurance drivers aswel ;)

[Viking]

did you see somebody fast from Germany the last 20 years? :D

Heinrich von Schnellfahrer, also known as the speed phenomenon with monokkel and glasseye??? sorry that was 1975...

[Mirek]

Current lack of top German rally driver is in my opinion given mostly by poor image of rallying in Germany overall. There is no shortage of great circuit German drivers and in the past there were rally drivers as well. A country of 80 million people simply must have enough talents. They only need to do the "right" motorsport.

[darkstar]

i totally agree to all what mirek said! ;)

[AndyRAC]

Current lack of top German rally driver is in my opinion given mostly by poor image of rallying in Germany overall. There is no shortage of great circuit German drivers and in the past there were rally drivers as well. A country of 80 million people simply must have enough talents. They only need to do the "right" motorsport.

I'd agree, sooner or later they must find one who is a world beater. However, the sport has never enjoyed a good image in Germany, summed up by BMW not liking their cars going Rallying when Prodrive got hold of one in the late 80's. Audi even claim their greatest Motorsport achievements have been at Le Mans.....and not with the Quattro in the WRC.....

[darkstar]

and not with the Quattro in the WRC.....

but they use every chance to show off with it ;) pretty sanctimonious. like with that new ugly a1:

http://www.techfieber.de/images/wp-content/gallery/audi-a1-woerthersee/audi-a1-woethersee-424.jpg

or in this advertising:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU7omDxkhEc

[dimviii]

It's too harsh to compare first WRC start of Wiegand and Ogier. One run private R2 car with probably very little funding and testing. The other run full factory S1600 after several months of testing with factory team....
Mirek i mean before s1600 season.


The logic is there. They try to find German driver who may be fast in the future because there is no-one fast enough in present. Simple as that.....
I know what are they looking for.Iam just not sure if they are doing it the right way.

Believe me that what they want to see is not same what You can see from results, it's about much more things like cooperation with team, feedback from car, ability to improve etc. .....
All these things cant be with a worthable driver?


In the end it's their money and it's not one of the two main seats in the team so what is wrong with that? Instead of being happy that there is finally a works team which gives chance to young drivers to drive their third car there is still some "what a stupid choice" blabala. .....
Of course i am happy they are giving chances to young drivers.I ll prefere to have some potential,that i said.I didn t said about stupid choices.


And last thing... Judging purely by numbers in results from one or two events is often very inaccurate because You miss many important information behind those times. Just as an example with drive of Černý in France which You picked up. You don't know that there were problems with crankshaft sensor all rally...

So Cerny with crankshaft problems was faster than Wiegand ?

[tfp]

I'd agree, sooner or later they must find one who is a world beater. However, the sport has never enjoyed a good image in Germany, summed up by BMW not liking their cars going Rallying when Prodrive got hold of one in the late 80's. Audi even claim their greatest Motorsport achievements have been at Le Mans.....and not with the Quattro in the WRC.....

:s mokin:
Beating one other manufacturer in Lemans is better than their 1984 wrc season? And pioneering 4wd road cars for years to come....They need to take a closer look at their achievements!

[Fly_Half]

you dont know anything about wiegand blah blah blah

I'm sure you would have been absolutely delighted if a random, completely unproven UK youngster had been given the VW seat on WRC Germany ahead of several deserving local youngsters...

[dimviii]

you dont know anything about wiegand, dont judge him for the results he showed at the academy rallyes(witch werent so special, i admit that, had expected a bit more too. but he also had technical problems and i´m not sure if his funding allowed him to really push, still not so special results, shure). he only did 1 rallye in the fiesta before germany. before he only drove a lupo gti and a swift n2. it is his first season in rallyeing...last year he drove 3 or 4 small rallyes in germany and now has driven 19 rallyes in his life ever, most of them had under 150 ss km, some even only 35 km... ...
So you think with these choices they try to find the German Ogier? Are they choices from a team that comes to wrc to win?



so not mutch experience. and here in germany he had extremely good results, beating up a lot of drivers in his group n swift. also in french swift cup he set all besttimes on 2nd day at ralyle rouergue, and even was faster then the twingo r1 cup drivers on some stages. he almost always finished first in his class this year: http://www.seppwiegand.com/erfolge.html he already is faster or equally fast as riedemann, who has mutch, mutch more experience. its the first german driver formany years who has not this "main aim is to finish and get experience, bla bla bla" ability, he wants to push...
What was the potential of these twingo drivers? You mean that when you are faster or equal with Riedemann you can be choosed for wrc?



before he did motocross, was european champion in cross country and so on......
Rossi was world champion in mot gp for years.Kimi was F1 champion.Will you choose them for a works wrc team?


so for me he´s the best young talented driver germany has to offer at the moment. and i´m really happy that vw also recognized this. if they want a german, they should choose him, give him a drive in swrc with maximum attack allowed and maybe german rallye championchip or french, czech or what ever in the fabia, let him take part at the polo tests and then if he proves to be good, give him a drive in the wrc 2013 in the vw b team. maybe 2014 he´s on top then.........
Being talented in Germany rallying is not enough because the rallying is at very low level.Italy a country with good drivers,and a very high level in their championship.Can you pick up your choose for a works team?It is not easy to do it in Italy......


so, i´m very happy with vw´s choise(maybe it´s because im german, shure, but finnish fans also seemed to be happy with lindroos, witch almost noone had ever heard from before). but i also share tommeke_B´s opinion, they should have let wiegand drive in spain instead of riedemann and give the wales drive to someone else. what i dont really understand is, why they give riedemann that 2nd drive. it´s not that i dont like him or so, but he had his chance this year...
Lindroos was fighting with Salo and Ketooma,best Fin drivers last years at Fin Championship with good results.Wiegand with who was fighting in Germany?Totaly different potential.
I think that you have missed something about the top level at wrc.Imho they had to have already choosed 1 or 2 drivers with serious potential and gain experiences even with skoda s2000 at all rallies of wrc.With one year is not enough,specially if at your only year of testing you have do the wrong choice.
I am talking about a team that wants to win Citroen-Ford-Mini.

[darkstar]

you guys are pretty polemic i must say, but ok...

i never said he´s world champion now, and also never said he´s going to be it ever. i never said they should pick him for the works cars, i said B team. i did not say beating riedemann or some french twingo guys make´s you best driver in the world. i also did not say being good motocross driver makes you wrc champion and i never said being good in germany means being good in the world, i´m not stupid! (competition level in germany is very low.) and i also said that i dont like the choise of giving riedemann a 2nd chance and instead they should have let wiegand drive in spain.

i only wanted to show you that he has very little experience and therefore is already pretty good, thats why i was telling you all this stuff.

and the most important part of my post, that said it all was this:



so for me he´s the best young talented driver germany has to offer at the moment. and i´m really happy that vw also recognized this. if they want a german, they should choose him, give him a drive in swrc with maximum attack allowed and maybe german rallye championchip or french, czech or what ever in the fabia, let him take part at the polo tests and then if he proves to be good, give him a drive in the wrc 2013 in the vw b team. maybe 2014 he´s on top then...so, to say it again: IF they want a german(what they obviously want), who else to choose? vw shurely wont take someone like wiegand for the 1st and 2nd car. but for a 3rd or 4th car, why not...if you want a german, you will have to build up one, thats it...

and in the end: it´s only a test! vw will shurely also have a look on lots of other drivers during next year´s testing season.

[Zeakiwi]

IS the Wiegand of the discussion on this vid ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whbDx9w4eMU

[Mirek]

So, Dimviii, pick one name of German driver for VW. No talking about abilities such driver should have because we all know them. Give us just one single name.

[dimviii]

So, Dimviii, pick one name of German driver for VW. No talking about abilities such driver should have because we all know them. Give us just one single name.

That is what i am saying Mirek.Unfortunately there is no one at current time.Its difficult to choose for even a B team a driver,where the championship(German) is so weak.
Also i believe that is too late.
Thats why i am saying that vw ''tactics'' reminds me their last aproach at wrc.
Some things are impossible to do,regardless of how much money you spend.
So you have to understant it,except if your aim is to be just another wrc entry.
Mirek really you think that giving to a rookie 2-3 free drives with a car that he haven t drive,you can have any conclusions?
Just think if Latvala,Tanak,Hanninen had given just 2-3 free drives if you had choose them with all their offs at their start.
I mean that you have to choose 1-2 drivers and give them the oportunity for at least a year.How you wil see the progress in rallies that they haven t see at all,with a car he hasn t drive,and just so little rally km in his pocket?
Just giving to 10 different drivers free drives,with most of these drivers with just one rally,it is dangerous to don t see even the good potential of a driver.

[dimviii]

you guys are pretty polemic i must say, but ok...

No mate,honestly not polemic at all.Feel free to discuss,that is the reason of forums. :)

[Mirek]

That is what i am saying Mirek.Unfortunately there is no one at current time.Its difficult to choose for even a B team a driver,where the championship(German) is so weak.
Also i believe that is too late.
Thats why i am saying that vw ''tactics'' reminds me their last aproach at wrc.
Some things are impossible to do,regardless of how much money you spend.
So you have to understant it,except if your aim is to be just another wrc entry.
Mirek really you think that giving to a rookie 2-3 free drives with a car that he haven t drive,you can have any conclusions?
Just think if Latvala,Tanak,Hanninen had given just 2-3 free drives if you had choose them with all their offs at their start.
I mean that you have to choose 1-2 drivers and give them the oportunity for at least a year.How you wil see the progress in rallies that they haven t see at all,with a car he hasn t drive,and just so little rally km in his pocket?
Just giving to 10 different drivers free drives,with most of these drivers with just one rally,it is dangerous to don t see even the good potential of a driver.

In their situation it's not bad solution in my opinion. They have to build the new driver from almost no-one. And in that zero starting status You can base Your choice on short term co-operation. You are talking about giving him let's say at least a year. But that is exactly what they are going to do. The third seat is meant for that. But first they need to choose the one to give this opportunity. For sure it's better way to choose this one by this way than to play dice. After all they can't run ten cars with potential drivers for whole season to make You happy ;)

[darkstar]

IS the Wiegand of the discussion on this vid ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whbDx9w4eMU

yes it is.

or here for example with the lupo ;)

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302410_170473726365009_100002071476779_334462_1766 413826_n.jpg


No mate,honestly not polemic at all.Feel free to discuss,that is the reason of forums. :)

but still your discussion style is polemic :p but no problem mate, im not pissed or so, hope you are also not.

[Hartusvuori]

http://yle.fi/alueet/keski-suomi/2011/10/jyvaskylan_mm-ralli_palaa_juurilleen_2967038.html

Rally Finland 2012 will most likely be driven only around Jyväskylä area like it have used to do in so many years. This year's experiment with stages further south is said to be succesful economically (which I fail to believe) but there have been critical feedback from spectators and thus return to old form is considered.

[AndyRAC]

http://yle.fi/alueet/keski-suomi/2011/10/jyvaskylan_mm-ralli_palaa_juurilleen_2967038.html

Rally Finland 2012 will most likely be driven only around Jyväskylä area like it have used to do in so many years. This year's experiment with stages further south is said to be succesful economically (which I fail to believe) but there have been critical feedback from spectators and thus return to old form is considered.

So they're going to listen to spectators? They certainly didn't do that over here when RallyGB abandoned Kielder & Yorkshire...
I actually thought this years 1,000 Lakes route was good, and a change from usual...

[MJW]

So they're going to listen to spectators? They certainly didn't do that over here when RallyGB abandoned Kielder & Yorkshire...
I actually thought this years 1,000 Lakes route was good, and a change from usual...Flip side of that is that 1000 Lakes goes back to a smaller area. Would people be happy if Rally GB goes back to a close geographical area again? I know that this years event doesn't satisfy spectators who want an all UK event, but from what i hear certain manufacturer teams don't like venturing so far from Cardiff bay, with its hotels and restaurants.

[AndyRAC]

I can see both points for Finland/ 1,000 Lakes - however, as it's nearly always been run out of Jyvaskala, going back to tradition is understandable. RallyGB is of course different. Most of it's history it 'roamed' until the last 10 years (when coincidentally, it's popularity has waned).
Maybe said Manufacturer teams can go and do Rallycross or something less taxing......Or when the sport is getting huge media interest they can start calling the shots!!

[Wim_Impreza]

so, to say it again: IF they want a german(what they obviously want), who else to choose? vw shurely wont take someone like wiegand for the 1st and 2nd car. but for a 3rd or 4th car, why not...if you want a german, you will have to build up one, thats it...

and in the end: it´s only a test! vw will shurely also have a look on lots of other drivers during next year´s testing season.

Why VW don't give Felix Herbold a chance? In my opinion he is the best young German driver available. Herbold won the ADAC Wikinger Rallye, the ADAC Hessen Rallye Vogelsberg and the AvD Sachsen Rallye this year. He wasn't that bad in the ADAC Deutschland Rallye, the IRC/ERC Geko Ypres Rally and the IRC Canon Mecsek Rally.

For Sepp Wiegand, it is too early to drive in the WRC in my opinion as he is in rally only since 2010.

[skarderud]

on norwegian rallystudio today, petter said that the ogier-hirvonen swap is a deal. he going to announce something the next 2 weeks about next season, he won't say what, but vw is likely. citroen in norway really want him doing citroen another season tought....

[not12listen]

with Mikko's performance, neither my wife or i think that it is likely that Ford will renew his contact.

we think the problem is that Mikko cannot handle the pressure of being the #1 driver in a team, whereas Latvala apparently has no issues with it.

but, with VW (and potentially Toyota and Saab) coming into the mix in 2012, this should turn out to be very interesting!

[N.O.T]

LOL.......

are you still searching your archive for Loebs bahaviour ??

Ask your wife please..and also inform her in your family motorsport meetings that

1. Saab and Toyota are not coming
2. WV joins in 2013

and please continue with your archive search to speak more lies and about Loeb.

[BleAivano]

i agree with N.O.T, there is no way Saab will join the series in 2012 especially since the company is on the verge of being folded. If SAAB survives if we are very very lucky we
might see them in WRC in 2016 or something but not the nearest couple of years.

And Toyta have gone to the Le Mans series. So not likely that they will be back in rally either.

[skarderud]

but i think subaru come back, with subaru trezia, same car as toyota yaris s. they already spread the rumours of an wrx 1,6 turbo version, optimalisaized for group N4/R4. short way to upper class.

[focus206]

Well, for 2012 is too late for anything now. Volkswagen in 2013, but I'd like to know who were those "2 manufacturers" in talk with FIA that we talked about some time ago...

[tfp]

[quote="not12listen"]
we think the problem is that Mikko cannot handle the pressure of being the #1 driver in a team, whereas Latvala apparently has no issues with it.
QUOTE]

Good point, he seemed to do much better when gronholm was in the team.

[N.O.T]

we think the problem is that Mikko cannot handle the pressure of being the #1 driver in a team, whereas Latvala apparently has no issues with it.
QUOTE]

Good point, he seemed to do much better when gronholm was in the team.

much better in what way ???

[not12listen]

concerning Saab and Toyota:

http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?t=128975&p=975645#post975645

[BleAivano]

concerning Saab and Toyota:

http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?t=128975&p=975645#post975645

the first two saab link is over 1 year old the last one is almost 8 months old.

Thrust me not12, tSAAB is no way near a WRC entry. The haven't built a car in almost 4-5 months. They hardly have money's to pay their workers or their suppliers how do you think
they're going to afford a wrc entry?

[not12listen]

the first two saab link is over 1 year old the last one is almost 8 months old.

Thrust me not12, tSAAB is no way near a WRC entry. The haven't built a car in almost 4-5 months. They hardly have money's to pay their workers or their suppliers how do you think
they're going to afford a wrc entry?

my apologies - i did not look at the dates that the articles were published.

[cali]

much better in what way ???

Collecting points for the team, but I guess he's been constantly collecting these points for the team this year as well. I would say that he's problably the best no. 2 driver material at the present moment. Loeb, Ogier and Latvala are all very good no. 1 material speedwise.

[N.O.T]

For Loeb and Ogier i understand...how is Latvala a better No1 than Hirvonen, he is a winner, but the point of No1 in a team is to fight for the championship...

[cali]

For Loeb and Ogier i understand...how is Latvala a better No1 than Hirvonen, he is a winner, but the point of No1 in a team is to fight for the championship...
True, but look my post again as I said "speedwise". Latvala has had some stupid accidents and car has also broken too many occasions. But his speed is very good.

[N.O.T]

His speed is doubtless amazing...but you need more than that to be No1. So far all these years Latvala was always very far from the champion...i know some of those points were robbed from him due to team orders but still if you check his points difference from the champion it would be silly to promote him to No1.

[cali]

His speed is doubtless amazing...but you need more than that to be No1. So far all these years Latvala was always very far from the champion...i know some of those points were robbed from him due to team orders but still if you check his points difference from the champion it would be silly to promote him to No1.
Agree that he makes too many mistakes compared to Ogier and specially Loeb. But for me it seems that at the end of the season he has matured and taken a step forward into right direction.

PS! If you check Hirvonen's points, someone mistakenly can draw a conclusion that he's one of the rallying gods ;)

[Juha_Koo]

JML hasn't done many mistakes this season... Nearly always it's been the car breaking up or team orders. I really hope he could get a trouble-free season next year. If not, apparently it's VW in 2013.

[tfp]

much better in what way ???

See this post -


[quote="N.O.T":2uqx6mri]

Collecting points for the team, but I guess he's been constantly collecting these points for the team this year as well. I would say that he's problably the best no. 2 driver material at the present moment. Loeb, Ogier and Latvala are all very good no. 1 material speedwise.[/quote:2uqx6mri]

My point exactly. Collecting points(4th his lowest position all year) and the occasional win is what he does best. Gronholm knew how to win rally's and got the better of Loeb many times, thats why Hirvonen and Gronholm worked so well togethor IMO, and thats why they secured the manufacturers title against citroen a few seasons ago.

[N.O.T]

you forget an importan factor.....Hirvonen had Gronholm as team mate back then not Latvala.

If hirvonen played the supporting role to latvala this year as he did with Gronholm everything would be lost for Ford very early in the season.....

[tfp]

you forget an importan factor.....hirvonen had gronholm as team mate back then not latvala.

If hirvonen played the supporting role to latvala this year as he did with gronholm everything would be lost for ford very early in the season.....

:up: agreed. The solution? Bring gronholm back out of retirement :p :

[N.O.T]

or move hirvonen to a team with someone as good as gronholm...or the opposite.

[Mintexmemory]

or move hirvonen to a team with someone as good as gronholm...or the opposite.
Remind me, how many Championships did Marcus win and how long was he competing before his first championship?
No driver, no matter how good an engineer, could have made the Focus 07-10 capable of beating the Loeb / C4 combination. From his first podium less than 4 years ago JML has developed such that he has cut out the major crashes and has learnt to drive competitively on tarmac. On gravel he is on a par with both Loeb and Ogier. If the Fiesta had been better prepared for this season then Jari Matti would not have been required to give Mikko undeserved places. WRGB is going to be fascinating, anything but a foregone conclusion.

[N.O.T]

Remind me, how many Championships did Marcus win and how long was he competing before his first championship?


he was 31 when he entered the WRC...before that he did only finnish championship and selected (very few) rounds of the WRC

his experience was FAR less than meekes......

Jari-Mati was all over the place this year as well.... and the times he retired due to bad luck (mechanical) are almost the same with the times he did not retire although he had major offs like Spain on day 1 and Geramny, and France and and and...

As for the pace on tarmac he did indded progress but still lacks in speed compared to Loeb and Ogier.

As for the rally of GB it is indeed a sad thing that the possibility our sport to have a worthless paper champion since the fat talentless italian is very likely....lets hope the proper man wins it.

[Brother John]

As for the rally of GB it is indeed a sad thing that the possibility our sport to have a worthless paper champion since the fat talentless italian is very likely....lets hope the proper man wins it.

So we have this year anyway a worthless paper champion also with Loeb. Stop it with discussions about who are bad drivers, the teams are not good with what thye do, and enjoy to go watching the rallys, it does not matter who wins in various rallies.
It would been better for almost all the rallyfans around the world if we have in WRC a fight with more candidates for the 2011 championship.
Personally I would have like to see a battle for the tittle between Ogier and Latvala this year. Next year? who cares. :s mokin:

[Leon]

At todays GPweek M. Holmes refers to the anxiety at Ford and Prodrive camps for next year. Ford should anounce there decision this month but nothing yet, and Mini program is on hold due to a main sponsor not confirmed yet.

[focus117]

Hmmm...hopefully we wont be facing an even more boring lineup of manufacturers then

[AndyRAC]

At todays GPweek M. Holmes refers to the anxiety at Ford and Prodrive camps for next year. Ford should anounce there decision this month but nothing yet, and Mini program is on hold due to a main sponsor not confirmed yet.

Hope it's good news for both. It's a sad reflection of the sport I'm afraid.....Whereas the new WEC/Sportscars is attracting more & more Manufacturers....

[N.O.T]

Holmes is the funniest guy ever...

[dimviii]

Holmes is the funniest guy ever...

i dont agree.His books are brilliant.

[N.O.T]

indeed..

you need to be brilliant to be in the rallying bussines for so long and not to have the slightest idea about the sport....

[dimviii]

i havent undestant something like this from his books.I can say his books are best about rallying.I haven t follow him through internet though.
Explain please.

[cali]

i havent undestant something like this from his books.I can say his books are best about rallying.I haven t follow him through internet though.
Explain please.
he can't explain, just his subjective prejudice against Holmes

[Mirek]

Holmes is the funniest guy ever...

That is You.

[tfp]

So we have this year anyway a worthless paper champion also with Loeb. Stop it with discussions about who are bad drivers, the teams are not good with what thye do, and enjoy to go watching the rallys, it does not matter who wins in various rallies.
It would been better for almost all the rallyfans around the world if we have in WRC a fight with more candidates for the 2011 championship.
Personally I would have like to see a battle for the tittle between Ogier and Latvala this year. Next year? who cares. :s mokin:

Its time there was a new champion. Then the world would be shocked, they would sit up and listen and our favourite motorsport would recieve a lot more attention from new fans.

[Francis44]

Peugeot Sport Portugal is no more, Magalhães without a seat for next year.

[AndyRAC]

Its time there was a new champion. Then the world would be shocked, they would sit up and listen and our favourite motorsport would recieve a lot more attention from new fans.

Honestly, I don't think anybody would notice.....

[OldF]

Remind me, how many Championships did Marcus win and how long was he competing before his first championship?

Two championships. In the link below you can see the WRC career of Marcus. He won the championship in his first full WRC season.

http://www.juwra.com/gronholm_marcus_starts.html

[Barreis]

Marcus was the king.

[cali]

Two championships. In the link below you can see the WRC career of Marcus. He won the championship in his first full WRC season.

http://www.juwra.com/gronholm_marcus_starts.html
Oh, I think he meant championships won against Loeb and that number is plain zero. Loeb had his first full season in 2003 and Marcus won his last title in 2002. So technically Petter is the only one who has beaten Loeb in a title race. In 2002 Loeb skipped 5 rallyes.

So if anyone is comparing Hirvonen/Grönholm vs. Loeb, according to the results they have been both as unsuccessful. But Marcus was by far the greater opposition to Loeb, providing very hard resistance and pushing Loeb to his limits. Plus Marcus is 2xWorld Champion.

[AP-Racing]

So technically Petter is the only one who has beaten Loeb in a title race. In 2002 Loeb skipped 5 rallyes.


Petter beat Seb after Citroen team order

[Mintexmemory]

Oh, I think he meant championships won against Loeb and that number is plain zero. Loeb had his first full season in 2003 and Marcus won his last title in 2002. So technically Petter is the only one who has beaten Loeb in a title race. In 2002 Loeb skipped 5 rallyes.

So if anyone is comparing Hirvonen/Grönholm vs. Loeb, according to the results they have been both as unsuccessful. But Marcus was by far the greater opposition to Loeb, providing very hard resistance and pushing Loeb to his limits. Plus Marcus is 2xWorld Champion.

If there had been a like tag I'd have pressed it. The point I was mostly trying to make was that Marcus came into WRC as a factory driver at a much more mature phase of his life and had actually a wealth of experience by the time he did, including 24 WRC events (hardly 'very few' - 2 seasons worth!).To judge JML or Meeke against that career is specious. As you so rightly say, for all his talent Marcus never totally got the better of Loeb and didn't have to do his maturing in the spotlight or gain experience, he already had enough.
As the great Paul Simon said (and I'm sure NOT will disagree with that description ;) ) 'A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest'

[bretddog]

Petter beat Seb after Citroen team order
Odds that Loeb could have beaten Petter in GB 2003 is not really in his favor. Petter won it also in 2002, and in 2004 when Loeb was fighting hard. Actually in 2004 he made everyone's eyes pop by taking more than 10 sec on Loeb over 10km in one of the last stages, to snatch the win. At the time the Impreza was fast.. And Loeb has evolved as a driver, he was not always superior on every surface, and in fact still isn't, though quite hard to beat.

[Mintexmemory]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/5837690/Rubber-chip-stops-Hayden-Paddon-in-Spain

Interesting by-note that Paddon is thought to be testing a WRC and S2000 car with a view to using one on WRGB. This would add even more interest to the other first -timers stepping up in class.

[MJW]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/5837690/Rubber-chip-stops-Hayden-Paddon-in-Spain

Interesting by-note that Paddon is thought to be testing a WRC and S2000 car with a view to using one on WRGB. This would add even more interest to the other first -timers stepping up in class.

I thought that Paddon is in an R4 Subaru.

[MartijnS]

He said in Salou at the Rallytravel Auction that they are working on a project for WRGB, with factory support. This week everything is being decided.

[6789]

He said in Salou at the Rallytravel Auction that they are working on a project for WRGB, with factory support. This week everything is being decided.
What sort of items did the auction there? Would like to go and buy some stuff!

[MartijnS]

Bonnet of Ken Block in Argentina, replica helmet of Loeb. Gloves of different drivers, drivingshoes, some vip tickets for the service. Collection of glasses of JM Latvala. Hats, t-shirts etc. Possibly more which i dont remember ;)

[6789]

Bonnet of Ken Block in Argentina, replica helmet of Loeb. Gloves of different drivers, drivingshoes, some vip tickets for the service. Collection of glasses of JM Latvala. Hats, t-shirts etc. Possibly more which i dont remember ;)

So jealous!! I want the Latvala glasses and some gloves. What sort of prices were they?

[MartijnS]

Helmet 1000 euro. Glasses 350 or something, gloves dont know, around 150-200 i think. Bonnet 475.

[AP-Racing]

Odds that Loeb could have beaten Petter in GB 2003 is not really in his favor. Petter won it also in 2002, and in 2004 when Loeb was fighting hard. Actually in 2004 he made everyone's eyes pop by taking more than 10 sec on Loeb over 10km in one of the last stages, to snatch the win. At the time the Impreza was fast.. And Loeb has evolved as a driver, he was not always superior on every surface, and in fact still isn't, though quite hard to beat.

Seb was leading after 4th SS, but after Sainz retire, Frequelin told to slow down and just finish the course. It's a known fact about it and at that time was a note on wrc.com. Guy said at the time - Seb is still young and will have a chance to win. A victory is important for us Citroen

Watch this thread if interesting
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450847

[Tom206wrc]

Peugeot Sport Portugal is no more, Magalhães without a seat for next year.


Sad, sad... ;(

[Tom206wrc]

According to L'Equipe from yesterday, Miko Hirvonen could replace Sébastien Ogier at Citroën Racing 2012 :confused:
But maybe I'm late and you all have heard of this rumour :mark:

[darkstar]

german rallye magazine says the same with ogier and hirvonen.

[bretddog]

Seb was leading after 4th SS, but after Sainz retire, Frequelin told to slow down and just finish the course. It's a known fact about it and at that time was a note on wrc.com. Guy said at the time - Seb is still young and will have a chance to win. A victory is important for us Citroen

Watch this thread if interesting
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450847


Loeb lead by 4 seconds at ss3, that's supposed to indicate anything? In 2004 he lead until the penultimate stage, when Petter made a joke out of him. Petter won more than half of all ss's in GB from 02-04, he had pretty firm control in those conditions. That Loeb was told to stay on the road is quite obvious. But he would have lost out in any case..

Loeb won 3 events that year, all on tarmac. 38 out of his 71 points were on tarmac. He simply did not yet have the speed and confidence on the lose surfaces yet at that time. All but the tarmac, he was just slower. In fact, while Petter won one tarmac event, Loeb never finished any non-tarmac rally in front of Solberg over the whole season. The fastest man won, plain and simple.

So to think Seb could have done it in GB, is pretty poor speculation.

[N.O.T]

I also agree that Solberg would have won either way that year in GB, but If Loeb was pushing him then he could also have an accident..."what ifs" do not create champions though...

The fact that they have the same age and how they evolved after that year shows the difference between a true rally legend and a true rally champion...

[tfp]

I also agree that Solberg would have won either way that year in GB, but If Loeb was pushing him then he could also have an accident..."what ifs" do not create champions though...

The fact that they have the same age and how they evolved after that year shows the difference between a true rally legend and a true rally champion...

Petter was let down a lot by Subaru dont forget, the car realy wasnt competitive in their later years. Then a lack of manufacturers meant he couldnt get a factory drive. All the while, PSA worked tirelessly to improve the Citoren Total team, and Sebastien Loeb flourished.

Loebs talent is undoubtable, but his career has been so much smoother than Petters. If only Subaru had been bothered to build a better car, Loeb might not have been an 8(?) time world champion!

[N.O.T]

And if Petter would bother to improve his skills maybe a team would pick him up instead of someone else.....

[tfp]

And if Petter would bother to improve his skills maybe a team would pick him up instead of someone else.....

Maybe its who the teams were developing at the time.
It probably would have worked out badly if he went to citroen a few years ago (But was there anyone on this forum, honestly, expecting Ogier to be as good as he has been?), but I dont know why they diddnt give him a seat back when Subaru left and he started expressing an interest as a private driver.

[ridder]

At the end of 2008 I think most people lost any faith in Solberg. He was consistently lacking winning pace since middle 2005 and in quite a few rallies in the later years Atkinson was ahead of him. It has to be said that these were rallies where the Subarus couldn't do better than 5-6 place.

Really wonder how Atkinson would have done in 2006-2008 in a different car. Solberg would have been fighting with Loeb and Gronholm for rally wins.

[Plan9]

At the end of 2008 I think most people lost any faith in Solberg. He was consistently lacking winning pace since middle 2005 and in quite a few rallies in the later years Atkinson was ahead of him. It has to be said that these were rallies where the Subarus couldn't do better than 5-6 place.

Really wonder how Atkinson would have done in 2006-2008 in a different car. Solberg would have been fighting with Loeb and Gronholm for rally wins.

+1 I am one of these people. My appreciation of Solberg reached its peak in 2004-5 when he put up a valiant challenge to Loeb. Around 2005 he was offered the second Citroen seat that later went to Pons & Sordo. I can understand why he turned it down; his career would have been rooted!! Even if he took it I don't think he would have been allowed to fight for wins with Loeb and Gronholm unfortunately.

Maybe Chris learned to live within the limits of the later Imprezas while Petter pushed way to hard.

I am not sure anyone has a clear idea of why Subaru and Mitsubishi went downhill so fast in the last part of the naughties; but it was quite pathetic how bad the last 2 Impreza WRC were, don't even mention the Evos....

I have a feeling that Chris will probably never drive full time in the WRC again as its all about the Benjamins now. The closes indication we have of his current WRC speed is Ireland 2009.

[Plan9]

I would also like to add:
I think that if Petter goes to VW he could possibly still struggle to get wins, how can VW guarantee that the Polo will be everything that people have talked it up to be? It remains to be seen if VW can replicate its Dakar successes in the WRC or if they will be a bit disappointing like the BMW and Mercedes F1 efforts.
Thanks.

[Gregor-y]

We would just have to be patient with VW and their drivers, whoever they are. I don't think many people expected the MINI to be as good as it is already, either, even for a car that's still not finished. VW's not supposed to be serious until 2013 so it's interesting we get to see it at all next year, unlike the C4 and DS3 development.

[focus206]

I didn't expect this:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/

I would really like a WRC Rallye du Valais :D

[Tomi]

(But was there anyone on this forum, honestly, expecting Ogier to be as good as he has been?)
Yes, I did, you can look at the posts from the past, especially those before season 2010.

[MJW]

Yes, I did, you can look at the posts from the past, especially those before season 2010.
Me too, I was an Ogier fan since 2008 Mexico

[noel157]

I thought Ogier wasn't anything special, didn't seem that good in his winning J-WRC season. Totally wrong.

[tfp]

Yes, I did, you can look at the posts from the past, especially those before season 2010.

I had a feeling he was going to be good also, but to match Loebs pace so early in his WRC career? That took me by surprise!!

[Plan9]

I had a feeling he was going to be good also, but to match Loebs pace so early in his WRC career? That took me by surprise!!

Yes he has been a revalation. I did not think much of any of the drivers in the Citroen Junior Team during the 2009 season expect for him. I was really worried that Mr Zimbabwe of Mr Russia would end up in the second Citroen seat for awhile there. I would say that it will be unlikely that any of the current young drivers in customer cars will end up in a M1 team (unless they change the 2 car rule). I think that VW, Citroen, Ford & Mini have in their best interest to take up the Tanaks, Mikkelsens, Kruudas, Neuvilles asap. It would be nice to have drivers to earn things on merit again, if you get my drift.

[wildboar]

Here is more on the "WRC Rallye du Valais": 2014 World Championship - Rallye du Valais (http://www.riv.ch/fr/news/26-2014-world-championship.html)
A press conference on the topic is under way right now.

I just looked at the 3D maps. Such a great event! http://www.riv.ch/fr/le-rallye.html?download=57:carte-3d

[Mirek]

Rallye du Valais starts today at 4 p.m. Results will be here: Rallye du Valais 2011 - Results - Rally-Base (http://rally-base.com/2011/rallye-du-valais-2011/)

There was some snow during recce (last year also on stages) plus they put some more gravel roads in the rally than usually.

I personally find Valais stages as absolutely awesome. Here one of my favorite onboards :)
Onboard Rally du Valais 2009 Th. Neuville - N. Klinger Citroen C2R2 Max - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2xo2ZnyPL4)

[AndyRAC]

Rallye du Valais starts today at 4 p.m. Results will be here: Rallye du Valais 2011 - Results - Rally-Base (http://rally-base.com/2011/rallye-du-valais-2011/)

There was some snow during recce (last year also on stages) plus they put some more gravel roads in the rally than usually.

I personally find Valais stages as absolutely awesome. Here one of my favorite onboards :)
Onboard Rally du Valais 2009 Th. Neuville - N. Klinger Citroen C2R2 Max - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2xo2ZnyPL4)


When it was in the IRC in 2008 and was the first Live event for Eurosport – I thought it was a fantastic event. Great stages, awesome scenery – what more do you want? I’d rather have Valais in the WRC than another dry, dusty gravel Rally….

[Juha_Koo]

I personally find Valais stages as absolutely awesome. Here one of my favorite onboards :)
Onboard Rally du Valais 2009 Th. Neuville - N. Klinger Citroen C2R2 Max - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2xo2ZnyPL4)

That was really excellent... Great rhytm. :up:

[Juha_Koo]

Would be great to see Rallye du Valais in the WRC. Nobody questions the "positions" of the asphalt events? It's only 250kms South of the most Southern stage of Rallye de France-Alsace, while Rallye de France is only 200kms South of Rallye Deutschland...
.

Good question. Personally I'd like to see Ireland back (especially in it's 2007 form)...

[bluuford]

The only problem is that everything was very expensive on that region (I think I visited it in 2009), but there are always many solutions. It is not too far to drive to France (for accomodation) or you can always use your tent :-)

[6789]

The only problem is that everything was very expensive on that region (I think I visited it in 2009), but there are always many solutions. It is not too far to drive to France (for accomodation) or you can always use your tent :-)

My uncle lives in that region :D

[Barreis]

Kimi in Williams F1.

[skarderud]

petter and henning is close to a team together in fords next season, rumours in norway says. its only one last discusion with vw away.
andreas mikkelsen is 90% ready for a vw drive as a 2. or 3. driver, with hänninen and one more (i heard the name but cant remember, maybe a german?) close to ready.

[Mintexmemory]

Kimi in Williams F1.

Sorry is this a random 'unworthy champions' nomination?
Because if so then Denny Hulme and Mike Hawthorne need to be mentioned

[VFTS]

petter and henning is close to a team together in fords next season, rumours in norway says. its only one last discusion with vw away.
andreas mikkelsen is 90% ready for a vw drive as a 2. or 3. driver, with hänninen and one more (i heard the name but cant remember, maybe a german?) close to ready.

I dont know about Petter/Henning, but the info about Mikkelsen is not correct....

[skarderud]

I dont know about Petter/Henning, but the info about Mikkelsen is not correct....

ok. my source is close to mikkelsen, and a very realible source. but its from 2013, 2012 he doing irc for skoda uk, and maybe some swrc also for skoda/vw. but no testing.

[pettersolberg29]

I dont know about Petter/Henning, but the info about Mikkelsen is not correct....

You can't leave it on that cliffhanger!

[Tomi]

andreas mikkelsen is 90% ready for a vw drive as a 2. or 3. driver, with hänninen and one more (i heard the name but cant remember, maybe a german?) close to ready.

complete bull?hit, and pure guessing.

[sollitt]

Sorry is this a random 'unworthy champions' nomination? There is no such thing as an "unworthy champion".

[BDunnell]

There is no such thing as an "unworthy champion".

I couldn't agree more. So long as victory has been achieved by fair means, then a championship is a championship is a championship.

[skarderud]

complete bull?hit, and pure guessing.

Well, my source is so close to both the driver and manufacturer, that i belive in him.
And, Mikkelsen is one of the most interesting talent across europe, alredy driving a Skoda, done his vw-outing in Finland with a very happy teamboss. Maybe not to far away?
Time will show.

[Tomi]

Well, my source is so close to both the driver and manufacturer, that i belive in him.
And, Mikkelsen is one of the most interesting talent across europe, alredy driving a Skoda, done his vw-outing in Finland with a very happy teamboss. Maybe not to far away?
Time will show.

So you think that the manufacturer decides drivers more than 1 year ahead even there is no hurry what so ever, sounds a bit similar to the rumours about petters works team deals in the past few years, complete nonsence.

[mousti]

Good news for the Matty Wilson fans :)

M-Sport Junior Team pro sezonu 2012 se rýsuje | RallyLife.cz (http://www.rallylife.cz/m-sport-junior-2012)

Nice for Mads :)

[Mintexmemory]

@Sollitt and BDunnell - all motor sport has suffered from scoring systems that value consistency above trying to win and occasionally failing. Moss should have been 58 champ (and would have been if he'd been less of a gentleman). Jim Clark in 67 was at the peak of his powers and even when let down by machinery could perform exceptional feats like the 67 Italian GP. I wouldn't have been prompted to bring this up but I was puzzled why Keke Rosberg's name suddenly cropped up.
My personal opinion is that Mikko is going to have to win WRGB and the Power stage; and if he manages that (against the odds) he'll deserve the title.

[BDunnell]

@Sollitt and BDunnell - all motor sport has suffered from scoring systems that value consistency above trying to win and occasionally failing. Moss should have been 58 champ (and would have been if he'd been less of a gentleman). Jim Clark in 67 was at the peak of his powers and even when let down by machinery could perform exceptional feats like the 67 Italian GP. I wouldn't have been prompted to bring this up but I was puzzled why Keke Rosberg's name suddenly cropped up.

Of course, but the champion in any given series is the one who scores the most points under the prevailing rules. Whether we like those rules or not is immaterial, in my view — the word 'undeserving' doesn't come into it.

[focus206]

Good news for the Matty Wilson fans :)

M-Sport Junior Team pro sezonu 2012 se rýsuje | RallyLife.cz (http://www.rallylife.cz/m-sport-junior-2012)

Nice for Mads :)

A M-Sport Junior Team made of Wilson and Ostberg in 2012... did I understand right?

[sollitt]

@Sollitt and BDunnell - all motor sport has suffered from scoring systems that value consistency above trying to win and occasionally failing. Nobody would suggest that there are not competitors who may have been deserving of success but fell short due to some misfortune. The sport is riddled with such examples. But anyone who wins a championship on the back of another's misfortune must still have been in contention and therefore is still worthy.
My personal opinion is that Mikko is going to have to win WRGB and the Power stage; and if he manages that (against the odds) he'll deserve the title.Agreed.

[Doon]

If Mikko wins Rally GB, and the Power Stage, and Loeb is 2nd on both, Mikko still loses. He needs Latvala to be 2nd on the rally, and him 1st, or be between him an Loeb on the PS. Mikko can't do it, so lets all stop dreaming. Loeb will win if he has no problems. This is coming from a Hirvonen fan.

[focus206]

If Mikko wins Rally GB, and the Power Stage, and Loeb is 2nd on both, Mikko still loses. He needs Latvala to be 2nd on the rally, and him 1st, or be between him an Loeb on the PS. Mikko can't do it, so lets all stop dreaming. Loeb will win if he has no problems. This is coming from a Hirvonen fan.

Quite agree... no problems for Loeb = no chances for Mikko

[tfp]

Quite agree... no problems for Loeb = no chances for Mikko

Dont write him off yet, for him, its all or nothing now!

[Plan9]

Kimi in Williams F1.

Has this been confirmed?

[focus206]

Dont write him off yet, for him, its all or nothing now!

I really wish he could go flat out in GB... but I doubt he will really do it :(

[Rallyper]

Dont forget 2009 in Gb when Mikko pushed like no o ne ever on Port Talbot 2, when his bonnet opened. Remember his jump at the 400m straight...
I we see that again Mikko can very well be the winner. But SL is favourite of course. But he mustn´t do any mistakes and his car must work all the rally.... Else MH wins.

There´s so many ifs...

[jbmarcus21]

finally massive rumours this year...

100% Loeb stay to Citroen

and all others drivers can move other team !!!

[ridder]

Dont forget 2009 in Gb when Mikko pushed like no o ne ever on Port Talbot 2, when his bonnet opened. Remember his jump at the 400m straight...
I we see that again Mikko can very well be the winner. But SL is favourite of course. But he mustn´t do any mistakes and his car must work all the rally.... Else MH wins.

There´s so many ifs...

Before the stage (2 stages from finish) he was 18 seconds behind Loeb, after being consistently behind him all weekend, loosing most time in rain on saturday morning. Though yes at the SS before he took 10 secs from Loeb who was taking it easy.

Results:
eWRC-results.com - archive and online results from WRC and rally (http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=399&s=7580&t=Rally-of-Great-Britain-2009)

The on Port Talbot 2 he was 0.7 seconds ahead of Loeb at split 2 before his bonnet opened on a jump between split 2 and 3 (~1:23 is the normal driving time between the splits)).

Stage splits:
World Rally Championship - Results - Rally GB (http://www.wrc.com/results/2009/wales-rally-gb/split-times/?stageno=15)

It comes up again and again at numerous places how Hirvonen would have been champion if it weren't for the bonnet opening, when in fact he was beaten and had no chance when it happened.

[Rallyper]

Before the stage (2 stages from finish) he was 18 seconds behind Loeb, after being consistently behind him all weekend, loosing most time in rain on saturday morning. Though yes at the SS before he took 10 secs from Loeb who was taking it easy.

Results:
eWRC-results.com - archive and online results from WRC and rally (http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=399&s=7580&t=Rally-of-Great-Britain-2009)

The on Port Talbot 2 he was 0.7 seconds ahead of Loeb at split 2 before his bonnet opened on a jump between split 2 and 3 (~1:23 is the normal driving time between the splits)).

Stage splits:
World Rally Championship - Results - Rally GB (http://www.wrc.com/results/2009/wales-rally-gb/split-times/?stageno=15)

It comes up again and again at numerous places how Hirvonen would have been champion if it weren't for the bonnet opening, when in fact he was beaten and had no chance when it happened.

Yeah, I have no problem with your quote. It was probably so. My point is that Mikko showed he really wanted to push. And 18 secs after 9/10 ths of the rally isn´t much. Just a missed junction would have ended Loeb championship.

I hope for real fight this year and the best man wins. But- don´t take anything for granted.

[Arwel Davies]

I remember 2009 and was on the jump on the Port Talbot stage, he was on a right mission, all a little to late maybe at that time. However, Loeb was pushing just as much to stay ahead. I was in the Resolven stage I think it was watching on a slight right hander with a ditch on the outside. Loeb was very lucky on that corner as he had 3 wheels in the ditch and hit a big stone. I cant wait for this years Wales Rally GB, it should be epic.

[sete]

Ford isnt pleased with new rollcage in DS3 WRC
Google PYeklada (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php%3Fid%3D18145)

[blownb310]

Ford isnt pleased with new rollcage in DS3 WRC
Google PYeklada (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php%3Fid%3D18145)What are the differences in the frame? It wasn't clear in the article.

Mike

[Barreis]

Kevin Abbring wins FIA Institute Young Driver Excellence Academy Award - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95710)

[BleAivano]

congratulations to PG Andersson: P-G Anderssons Mobilblogg: Då var man Pappa (http://pgandersson.blogspot.com/2011/10/da-var-man-pappa.html)

[Bobcat]

What are the differences in the frame? It wasn't clear in the article.

Mike
Pretty big differences Mike, it is an all-new frame for the DS3 WRC without a new homologation procedure. Konkurrenz hinterfragt DS3 WRC :: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/10/28/konkurrenz-hinterfragt-ds3-wrc/index.html)

[PDS]

I really don't understand why this is visible in the TOURING CAR SECTION????

[Plan9]

I really don't understand why this is visible in the TOURING CAR SECTION????

Just really really really lucky I guess!!!

[Plan9]

finally massive rumours this year...

100% Loeb stay to Citroen

and all others drivers can move other team !!!

I thought that MINI was set for the next 3 years????

[Mitch555]

2 Engine failures over 2 rallies makes me wonder that there might be a weakness in Citroen's armour. Who knows, Loeb could well be hit by another engine failure. Roads are pretty hard packed so sweeping shouldn't be much of an issue unless the weather is really bad, then Loeb will have the advantage on the wet surface.

Quite a few rumours at the moment circulating about Petter taking up a seat at Volkswagen on various websites. Could be just fan talk for now, I'm not sure if Petter can afford to have a full year out of the WRC top cars and comeback in 2013 in a new car and have impact. Who knows though?!

[bluuford]

Well, the talk that Loeb-s engine failiure in France was just a human error sound more and more like I tought. Some sort of miscalculation with their engine durability. Räikkönen also retired due to engine related issue (thay said that it was due to some fuel injection and fire - it might be just a smokescree as well). So, defenitely there are more worries with the engine in Citroen camp than we know, or they want us to know). Remember what happened in Le Mance with all Peugeots... was it last year? Do you remember what happened to Sordo in Monte a few years back? Their engines are good but often it seems that they are just a bit too good.

[Mirek]

Pretty big differences Mike, it is an all-new frame for the DS3 WRC without a new homologation procedure. Konkurrenz hinterfragt DS3 WRC :: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/10/28/konkurrenz-hinterfragt-ds3-wrc/index.html)

Be exact, please.

[Brother John]

Pretty big differences Mike, it is an all-new frame for the DS3 WRC without a new homologation procedure. Konkurrenz hinterfragt DS3 WRC :: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/10/28/konkurrenz-hinterfragt-ds3-wrc/index.html)

Without a new homologation process!!! So what do you think, Citroen and the FIA ​​are neighbors, then it appears that everything is possible between these friends.

[Barreis]

Go Loeb.

[pettersolberg29]

Andreas Mikkelsen has (unsurprisingly) won the Italian Gravel Championship. He led by over a minute in Sicily but a spark plug problem lost them over 3 minutes, dropping them to 6th. A couple of fastest stage times took them back up to 3rd which was enough to win the whole championship.