[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[Mirek]

Sardinia - Crap

I have never met anyone who was there and didn't like the event. Almost all return every year there saying it's just great. I even know quite many people who prefer it from NORF...

[Daniel]

I have never met anyone who was there and didn't like the event. Almost all return every year there saying it's just great. I even know quite many people who prefer it from NORF...

The people you know who prefer it to Finland should be shot. There's a reason why the Finns on here are proud of their rally.

[Daniel]

I visited Rally Sardinia this year. And yes I was looking forward to it. Great stages, especially the new ones on friday. Of course if you stay on Lago Omodeo, which was the most boring stages, you had a disappointing day... The Grighini stages were great ;) Scenary and landscapes... Not bad at all, many nice places with a nice landscape. I think that the Gallura powerstage was one of the best power-stages so far this year ;) And I haven't seen anyone crying because they went to a stage and they never heard the name of it before...

What I don't understand: moving last day to tuscany... Who came up with that plan? Move the whole service park, let all drivers, media, mechanics etc do a 8 hours boat trip for one day?? And what about the spectators, what is their real benefit of it?

It's a stupid move for sure. I didn't go to Sardinia, but a few people on here have and none have raved about it.

[Mitch555]

I have never met anyone who was there and didn't like the event. Almost all return every year there saying it's just great. I even know quite many people who prefer it from NORF...

Yep, it's great if you can get there... Remember WRC is broadcast to way over 500 million people (it's way bigger but I can't be stuffed finding a quote, you guys get the idea though). Yes spectating is a huge part of rallying, and the experience is second to none. However, we also need to keep in mind the much larger majority who have to make do with TV and Internet coverage. Any fan who visits an event is usually going to like it to a degree (unless you are going to Rally Aus this year :P). This doesn't automatically translate back to the TV. Which is where we lose out at the moment.

We can defend events like Sardinia. But at the end of the day, if they are doing nothing for the sustainment and growth of rallying, then it doesn't have as big a place in our calendar. I would more readily accept a US event with the stage in some large stadium complex like the old X-Games and broadcast live, because it brings something to the table. I want to be excited by the challenges, adventures, and suspense of each rally every year. At the moment this has only happened for Monte, Sweden and Finland.

[Mirek]

Sardinia was live in TV in 2010 when it was IRC with I think six complete long stages broadcasted on Eurosport (that was also first time they run the so called new stages of 2011 around Gringhini). Ask ISC why with them and much bigger name of WRC it was only the power stage...

[cali]

Saying the Safari isn't unique is just mad, even if you don't like the event.
I meant the "interesting" part of that sentence, not "unique".

[cali]

It's a stupid move for sure. I didn't go to Sardinia, but a few people on here have and none have raved about it.
If you care to dig in to Sardinia thread then most of the people who went there were more than thrilled ... at least that is what I remember

[Mirek]

Anyway the real problem of public interest is not the name of the event or its nature. It's the work of promoter. A real promoter makes a global superstar from a teenage guy who sings two songs of Michael Jackson. There's so much potential in rallying but wasted.

[Red bull]

thats what the wrc calender is missing,the safari
Safari Rally 1990 Kenya - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKLT2hDUwsA)

[cali]

thats what the wrc calender is missing,the safari
Safari Rally 1990 Kenya - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKLT2hDUwsA)

Yes, that's what I'm saying, in this vid the part which I dislike the most about Safari starts around 1:10 when the cars barely get out from the mud. I like to see speed test not surviving test, no spectactle whatsoever .. just my two cents

[Daniel]

Yes, that's what I'm saying, in this vid the part which I dislike the most about Safari starts around 1:10 when the cars barely get out from the mud. I like to see speed test not surviving test, no spectactle whatsoever .. just my two cents

I've not watched the video but the Safari hasn't been like that for ages......

[Josti]

I meant the "interesting" part of that sentence, not "unique".

Uniqueness makes interesting.

[I am evil Homer]

Anyway the real problem of public interest is not the name of the event or its nature. It's the work of promoter. A real promoter makes a global superstar from a teenage guy who sings two songs of Michael Jackson. There's so much potential in rallying but wasted.

^^^ this is the major problem for WRC right now. Forget which events could or should be in, there is time for that to change. What WRC needs is proper promotion to get people watching it whether that's on TV, over the web streamed or in the flesh. The 500m figure is false...sure it's potentially broadcast to that many but how many actually watch it, compared to say when the BBC used to follow the RAC rally? I used to love getting up early to see Steve Rider tell me someone had been "got" by Keilder.

Without that coverage, the argument over whether X rally should be in are moot. WRC needs more manufacturers teams, more sponsors looking to be involved and right now there's very little to justify that investment - very few people know about WRC and it's a shame because it is a fantastic sport.

I would agree that in recent years there's been too many identikit rallies, anonymous gravel and tarmac roads that really could in any of about 20 places. But right now the modern WRC has to get people interested, new followers who don't know the history have no idea what you mean by "the yellow house" or "turini". Then we can start talking about bringing back those events

[Josti]

Yes, that's what I'm saying, in this vid the part which I dislike the most about Safari starts around 1:10 when the cars barely get out from the mud. I like to see speed test not surviving test, no spectactle whatsoever .. just my two cents

Apart from Finland, I think the highest average speeds were always set in Safari. Going through mud is just one of many elements.

[Barreis]

Anyway the real problem of public interest is not the name of the event or its nature. It's the work of promoter. A real promoter makes a global superstar from a teenage guy who sings two songs of Michael Jackson. There's so much potential in rallying but wasted.

Agree.

[Tomi]

Why no Safari Tomi? It's an iconic rally and I think the WRC needs some icons.

Simply because they would not run it like safari in old days, its too dangerous and also too expensive and allso rally I think is a spectator sport, I dont remember seen many in Kenya.
Im quite sure no team support that it would be back, and if it will be it will be samekind of gay version, they have been running it lately, it's just as amusing like it is to call a endurance event run in Argentina Paris-Dakar.

[Barreis]

World Rally Championship - News - Hirvonen aims for Ford extension (http://www.wrc.com/news/hirvonen-aims-for-ford-extension/?fid=15285)

[tfp]

Safari and SanRemo should be back.

YES.
And swap Alsace for corsica :) And more mixed gravel/tarmac events like catalunya.

[Allyc85]

World Rally Championship - News - Hirvonen aims for Ford extension (http://www.wrc.com/news/hirvonen-aims-for-ford-extension/?fid=15285)

Ah you beat me to it. Did you get my PM?

[Motorsportfun]

Amen brother. A-f***ing-men to that.

I think a rally should almost always bring something unique to the party.

For instance I think Rally Australia should be in Perth (with its ball bearing gravel) or not in Australia at all.

I'll give

my thoughts on the current calendar
Sweden - Superb as ever, but it really should be the 2nd round, after the Monte.
Mexico - Sorry, boring.
Portugal - Seems OK, but I preferred it where they used to have it back in 2001.
Jordan - Sorry, it's crap.
Sardinia - Crap
Argentina - OK
Greece - Good rally
Finland - FANTASTIC!
Rallye Deutschland - I actually quite like it.
Rally De France - Having seen some footage I think this could be a good event. But I'll wait till it's run. Would prefer Corsica if I'm honest.


Anyone who says "quite like" about Germany, which is straights-hairpin-straight-90° corner-straight, can't talk anymore.
France? It's unbelievable that TWO slots of the world calendar are 150 km away each other. Unbelievable, scandalous. One of them MUST be sacrificed, or have to merger.

[Motorsportfun]

Sorry, but the landscape in Sardinia seems boring. I think new stages are a more or less worthless thing. Rally fans love having big name stages. Say Muresk, Bunnings, Langley Park or York Railway and most hardcore fans will say "Ah!!!! Rally Australia!!!!" say Lago Omodeo and people will say Lago Omodeo you too asshole!!!!!! :angryfire Ouninpohja, Turini and so on are just epics, you don't need new crap stages when you have epic stages....

Whilst Turkey and Cyprus are gone (thank god) we still have Jordan which is another crapfest which has even less scenery than Sardinia.


Ask for Monte Lerno, ask for Crastazza Jump, ask for Emerald Coast's (where James Bond's "The Spy who loved me" was filmed) LISCIA RUJA stage (back in 2008, live broadcasted). Ask about them, not about the new one.

First pic seen googling "monte lerno".

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/1384776.jpg

That's all.

[wildsir]

World Rally Championship - News - Hirvonen aims for Ford extension (http://www.wrc.com/news/hirvonen-aims-for-ford-extension/?fid=15285)

Think he'll be hung out to dry.

[focus206]

World Rally Championship - News - Hirvonen aims for Ford extension (http://www.wrc.com/news/hirvonen-aims-for-ford-extension/?fid=15285)

I have a feeling that nothing will change in Ford for 2012, if they decide to continue... neither the drivers or the car :rolleyes:

[Gregor-y]

Is the Sno* Drift rally a viable option for WRC? It isn't really close to much in the way of towns. Then again, what rally in the US is? Olympus is good as it is next to Seattle. Plus international airport. Again, we are heading back to the 'commercialised' format of rallying, however that is the way USA would have to start I think in order to get the people. Though California has some magnificent tarmac road as well.
I like to say Chicago is convenient because it's central to everything and inconvenient because it's close to nothing. Sno*Drift is only about 400 miles away so the same rule applies. It's close to some olympic training areas and summer towns so there is some capacity for spectators flying in to Chicago or Detroit. I'd say the main advantages are it's a long established event, has good relations with local government, is relatively compact and still has excellent organization that ensures stages are up and running on time. Outside of Detroit the roads in Michigan are pretty well maintained and in the winter the snow is groomed to make the roads very pleasant.

California is a wonderful place to drive and I can think of many areas just to the north and south of San Francisco that could make for a world class tarmac rally in terms of challenge and scenery, but getting permission would be a nightmare. Still I can just imagine a starting point in Golden Gate Park with a transit across the bridge to stages in Marin County. That would be worth the 35 hour drive. ;)

[MJW]

I have a feeling that nothing will change in Ford for 2012, if they decide to continue... neither the drivers or the car :rolleyes: Or the results......

[SubaruNorway]

I went to Sardinia this year and i didn't expect it to be as good as it was! You could not go to a stage and not find a good place, the stages have everything! jumps, water splashes, dips, bumps, fast corners, tricky hairpins and not least nice scenery with the mountains. Loved bashing the little Micra up and down mountains on San Remo like roads going to saturday mornings first stage i think it was ;) Weather was perfect with a little breeze usually so not too hot. Friendly people who offered beer and food, loved it! :)

Then Finland... didn't really have such a good time even if i got a couple of very good places. So hot and extremely humid, tons of marshals even in remote places, tons of drunk fins, very hard to find good places without recce and rude people. Even ended up not bothering to film at two stages cos of bad places.

Knowing how hard it is to just get into Russia i wouldn't bother with an event there, at least not a mix with Finland as you can end up sitting at the border for 5 hours before you can go across....

[Red bull]

I've not watched the video but the Safari hasn't been like that for ages......
check these ones out: No one is sure of a win as in the sprints thats what makes the safari tough.
WRC Daily Highlights: Safari 2002 Day 1: 26 Minutes - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DJUOzIStC_sI):
WRC Safari Rally 2001 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUqK0pJGR_w&feature=fvwrel)

[Barreis]

Or the results......

Agree. They need P.Solberg for next season.

[Miika]

Knowing how hard it is to just get into Russia i wouldn't bother with an event there, at least not a mix with Finland as you can end up sitting at the border for 5 hours before you can go across....

Then again there one could spectate anywhere one likes, since it would be the other way around, marshals being drunk and spectators running the show. I´m of course kidding, just being sad that it so uptight here in NORF these days, trying to maintain Grand Prix -like safety levels in the woods.

[focus206]

Agree. They need P.Solberg for next season.

I don't think Petter would do better than Jari-Matti and Mikko, or at least not much better. Anyway, the problem of the drivers is secondary, if the car remains the one of this year... absolutely too fragile.

[AndyRAC]

^^^ this is the major problem for WRC right now. Forget which events could or should be in, there is time for that to change. What WRC needs is proper promotion to get people watching it whether that's on TV, over the web streamed or in the flesh. The 500m figure is false...sure it's potentially broadcast to that many but how many actually watch it, compared to say when the BBC used to follow the RAC rally? I used to love getting up early to see Steve Rider tell me someone had been "got" by Keilder.

Without that coverage, the argument over whether X rally should be in are moot. WRC needs more manufacturers teams, more sponsors looking to be involved and right now there's very little to justify that investment - very few people know about WRC and it's a shame because it is a fantastic sport.

I would agree that in recent years there's been too many identikit rallies, anonymous gravel and tarmac roads that really could in any of about 20 places. But right now the modern WRC has to get people interested, new followers who don't know the history have no idea what you mean by "the yellow house" or "turini". Then we can start talking about bringing back those events

Yeah, quite agree. Question, what is Promotion?? What does it mean, what does it involve? Put it this way, it's not just TV coverage....
What about radio, newspapers, magazines, and then all newer media. Fact is the WRC is poorly promoted, however, it would help if there was a great deal to promote.

As for the Steve Rider and Kielder comment - I think you mean William Woollard...but I agree, that type of coverage is unimaginable nowadays.

[Barreis]

WRC has Ken Block and Kimi Raikonen as two global stars and cannot do something more to promote the sport. It's NorthOne or ISC's mistake, they're promoters. THey don't care. From the day when David Richards took the TV rights in his hands, sport started to fall down.

[OldF]

We have a saying here that ”some guys like the daughter and other ones the mother and some ones like their both”. It’s the same with different rallies. Of course everyone have the right to defend his or her opinions.

But anyway if I would be a sponsor for a team or a driver I would rather take my customers to rallies where there are lot of spectators and thereby also usually a good feeling.

Jean Todt has also said that WRC should go more away from Europe to countries with growing car markets like Russia, China and India. The car markets in Russia has already been growing for years judging by the trucks on Finnish roads (above 700 000 cars in 2008).

If there where a WRC rally, lets say in India, would it get any spectators and would the manufacturers get their desired visibility among potential car buyers in a country where rally (I assume) have no heritage. It would IMO demand a huge TV campaign showing some spectacular clips of rallying on free TV channels during prime time.

[AMSS]

I like to say Chicago is convenient because it's central to everything and inconvenient because it's close to nothing. Sno*Drift is only about 400 miles away so the same rule applies. It's close to some olympic training areas and summer towns so there is some capacity for spectators flying in to Chicago or Detroit. I'd say the main advantages are it's a long established event, has good relations with local government, is relatively compact and still has excellent organization that ensures stages are up and running on time. Outside of Detroit the roads in Michigan are pretty well maintained and in the winter the snow is groomed to make the roads very pleasant.

California is a wonderful place to drive and I can think of many areas just to the north and south of San Francisco that could make for a world class tarmac rally in terms of challenge and scenery, but getting permission would be a nightmare. Still I can just imagine a starting point in Golden Gate Park with a transit across the bridge to stages in Marin County. That would be worth the 35 hour drive. ;)

Or they could have just one long stage, the pacific coast highway from, say, San Fransisco-Los Angeles... GREAT road!

[Mirek]

Then again there one could spectate anywhere one likes, since it would be the other way around, marshals being drunk and spectators running the show. I´m of course kidding, just being sad that it so uptight here in NORF these days, trying to maintain Grand Prix -like safety levels in the woods.

Maybe I was extremely lucky but I had absolutely no problem with marshals in NORF. Sometimes there were none in the woods where I was, sometimes we found some good compromise with them in rather friendly talk. It was my first time in NORF, next year another attempt, so maybe I won't be so lucky again...

[Tomi]

Maybe I was extremely lucky but I had absolutely no problem with marshals in NORF.

Normal spectators usually dont have, usually it's the big headed amateur photographers who get in trouble.

[mm1]

This year I was almost surprised how liberal the attitude from marshals was.

[Red bull]

What about this??
Kenya plans to run the 2012 Safari Rally as a WRC candidate event | RallyBuzz (http://www.rallybuzz.com/safari-rally-2012-wrc-candidate/) :s mokin:

[Daniel]

What about this??
Kenya plans to run the 2012 Safari Rally as a WRC candidate event | RallyBuzz (http://www.rallybuzz.com/safari-rally-2012-wrc-candidate/) :s mokin:

:D

[GigiGalliNo1]

India for WRC to target buyers of cars? I don't think so. There is an extreme difference between the poor and wealthy classes. And the wealthy won't buy a Citroen or Ford, more like Lexus, BMW and Mercedes etc.

US rally in California or Michigan would be silly. They need a good Forrest/Woods rally with Maple leaf stages! Oh, Canada would do! :D

The thing is having Kimi and Block in the WRC yes it's big names but these names have to pay to be in tv regardless of what position they are in the rally.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Daneil, I would go to Kenya for WRc in an instant!

[AndyRAC]

India for WRC to target buyers of cars? I don't think so. There is an extreme difference between the poor and wealthy classes. And the wealthy won't buy a Citroen or Ford, more like Lexus, BMW and Mercedes etc.

US rally in California or Michigan would be silly. They need a good Forrest/Woods rally with Maple leaf stages! Oh, Canada would do! :D

The thing is having Kimi and Block in the WRC yes it's big names but these names have to pay to be in tv regardless of what position they are in the rally.

Sad thing is that both Kimi & Block were 'parachuted' into the WRC - they made their names in other series - the WRC can't generate global stars.

[Daniel]

Daneil, I would go to Kenya for WRc in an instant!

J4mie has been and loved it. I would definitely go too.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Deal! We're off

But I hear there would be a WRC event in South Africa before the return of a Kenyan Safari ;)

[Plan9]

We may have to get used to stars that are parachuted into the WRC. Rumor has it that a certain MotoGP star and a reasonably popular f1 driver may also be making the leap of faith in the next 2-3 years.

On potential events: having India, China, USA/Canda, Russia and Brazil is less about selling cars in the short term. I think they would be included as they have a huge potential fan base for the series itself. We also need an event in the Middle East as it looks like we will be seeing a lot of investment from there into the car industry itself. But this will depend on peace of course.

[focus206]

We may have to get used to stars that are parachuted into the WRC. Rumor has it that a certain MotoGP star and a reasonably popular f1 driver may also be making the leap of faith in the next 2-3 years.

On potential events: having India, China, USA/Canda, Russia and Brazil is less about selling cars in the short term. I think they would be included as they have a huge potential fan base for the series itself. We also need an event in the Middle East as it looks like we will be seeing a lot of investment from there into the car industry itself. But this will depend on peace of course.

A bit too much. I don't want the WRC to lose some great Europeans events to go to run rallies like Jordan but, of course, money "talks"...

[tfp]

We may have to get used to stars that are parachuted into the WRC. Rumor has it that a certain MotoGP star and a reasonably popular f1 driver may also be making the leap of faith in the next 2-3 years.

On potential events: having India, China, USA/Canda, Russia and Brazil is less about selling cars in the short term. I think they would be included as they have a huge potential fan base for the series itself. We also need an event in the Middle East as it looks like we will be seeing a lot of investment from there into the car industry itself. But this will depend on peace of course.

MotoGp star and F1 driver? Who are those?

[MJW]

Moto GP star is Valentino Rossi, as for reasonably popular F1 driver? Mark Webber?

[tfp]

Moto GP star is Valentino Rossi, as for reasonably popular F1 driver? Mark Webber?

I might have guessed Rossi:-) I doubt Mark webber though, he's just signed another contract with RBR, they wouldn't want a repeat of Kubica...

[MJW]

Anyone else picked up on the proposal for recce changes in 2012? According to autosport (printed version not the .com) FIA plan to reduce recce passes to a single pass. Loeb and co not happy. Also teams v FIA thing kicking off about endurance, teams want to retain the 'featured service park format"

[Plan9]

The rumors I read a few months ago was Rossi, Kubica & Hekkie Kovalainen. Rossi in a Stobart/Monster venture and the other two self-funding drives for a few years if they cannot make any progress in F1. I would bet that Kubica was about ready to jump ship in a few years regardless of how good Renault was (before his accident he was in a rally car every few weeks mucking around). Kovi owns many rally cars as well but I am not sure how good either would be in the WRC.

[Mirek]

Anyone else picked up on the proposal for recce changes in 2012? According to autosport (printed version not the .com) FIA plan to reduce recce passes to a single pass. Loeb and co not happy.

That's plain stupid and moreover it would make entrance into WRC for new drivers even more difficult...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Think Webber is sticking with the F1 Redbull.... Kubica would be great to see in the WRC.... Rossi... he was interesting and will bring more publicity to the WRC then Kimi I think...

I can see those two (Kubica and Rossi) improving in the WRC as drivers where as Kimi.... where is his improvement?!

[mm1]

Anyone else picked up on the proposal for recce changes in 2012? According to autosport (printed version not the .com) FIA plan to reduce recce passes to a single pass. Loeb and co not happy. Also teams v FIA thing kicking off about endurance, teams want to retain the 'featured service park format"
That would be super stupid. Two passes for a first timer is allready dangerous, but one would be plain silly.

[AndyRAC]

While I’m a fan of what JT is trying to do, I can’t understand this move. Isn’t the reason we have 2 passes is so that on the 1st pass the crews write the notes, then on the 2nd pass they check them? Or is this the ‘safe’ way of having almost ‘blind’ events? What does need to return are gravel crews for all events.

[Mitch555]

While I’m a fan of what JT is trying to do, I can’t understand this move. Isn’t the reason we have 2 passes is so that on the 1st pass the crews write the notes, then on the 2nd pass they check them? Or is this the ‘safe’ way of having almost ‘blind’ events? What does need to return are gravel crews for all events.

Very dangerous if people are driving with the same level commitment and trying to find extra speed in comparison to those who have already written notes. Absolutely stupid. The only other option is to run a decent roadbook such as what we do in Australia for a fair amount of state championship events (Legana Tyres & More Rally 2011 - SS6 Narwantapu Reverse Walkem/Kulhanek Evo IX - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKY8YsJDDJY)) when we don't run pacenotes. This would be a better option on the endurance events to also help slow down the drivers as well.

Also good news about Kenya :)

However before we talk about Kimi, Kubica, Rossi, Kovalainen etc. we need to address that our own drivers in the WRC have no charisma. Gone are the days of the great personalities of Tommi, Colin, Carlos, Marcus, Richard, Gilles, Francois D, Juha etc. Only Petter has that same edge, though Sebastien Ogier is 'trying', but is coming across as a spoilt whiny brat (my opinion, not right or wrong)

I think a good step forward might be to drop North One and create a new marketing department within the WRC, who know what the stakeholders (FIA, Teams, Drivers and Fans) want, and then also engage Eurosport in to help out.

[wildsir]

Very dangerous if people are driving with the same level commitment and trying to find extra speed in comparison to those who have already written notes. Absolutely stupid. The only other option is to run a decent roadbook such as what we do in Australia for a fair amount of state championship events (Legana Tyres & More Rally 2011 - SS6 Narwantapu Reverse Walkem/Kulhanek Evo IX - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKY8YsJDDJY)) when we don't run pacenotes. This would be a better option on the endurance events to also help slow down the drivers as well.

reverse the stages, and allow one pass recce.

[Daniel]

While I’m a fan of what JT is trying to do, I can’t understand this move. Isn’t the reason we have 2 passes is so that on the 1st pass the crews write the notes, then on the 2nd pass they check them? Or is this the ‘safe’ way of having almost ‘blind’ events? What does need to return are gravel crews for all events.

and tyre choice!!!!!

[Plan9]

1. Can we have a Rallycross topic?
2. Can anyone explain how ERC, Global Rallycross & the American "RallyCar" work together, are they separate?
3. Know any good Rallycross websites?

I think this sport is going to become quite popular in the years ahead.

[raybak]

Single pass recce is dangerous, unless they offer something like the Jemba system.

Ray

[MJW]

1. Can we have a Rallycross topic?
2. Can anyone explain how ERC, Global Rallycross & the American "RallyCar" work together, are they separate?
3. Know any good Rallycross websites?

I think this sport is going to become quite popular in the years ahead.
Rallycrossworld.com - just gone from subscription to free yesterday.

[Barreis]

Thx, good to know.

[AndyRAC]

If Ford are so keen on keeping the central service park, maybe they should go to Global Rallycross.....
Rallying is meant to be a test of speed AND Endurance.....

Can you imagine Sportscars and LeMans 24 Hours cutting their races to make them more popular and TV friendly??? No, so WRC shouldn't have done the same thing.

[Viking]

1. Can we have a Rallycross topic?
2. Can anyone explain how ERC, Global Rallycross & the American "RallyCar" work together, are they separate?
3. Know any good Rallycross websites?

I think this sport is going to become quite popular in the years ahead.


ERC24 - European Rallycross Championship (http://www.erc24.com)
Rallycross Online (http://www.rallycross.com)

[Mirek]

Very dangerous if people are driving with the same level commitment and trying to find extra speed in comparison to those who have already written notes. Absolutely stupid. The only other option is to run a decent roadbook such as what we do in Australia for a fair amount of state championship events (Legana Tyres & More Rally 2011 - SS6 Narwantapu Reverse Walkem/Kulhanek Evo IX - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKY8YsJDDJY)) when we don't run pacenotes. This would be a better option on the endurance events to also help slow down the drivers as well.

Off topic... The name of co-driver in the video is Czech. Could be interesting to know his family history because there aren't so many Czechs living in Australia :)

[focus206]

2011 might be the last WRC season for Block
Google PYeklada (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/)

[N.O.T]

good news...with him departing along with raikonen our sport will become far more "pure".

[Barreis]

Google PYeklada (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/)

[janvanvurpa]

2011 might be the last WRC season for Block
Google PYeklada (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/)

You call "this" a "season"?

[focus206]

You call "this" a "season"?

Call it how you want to call it. The point is: maybe no Block in WRC in 2012.

[Mirek]

good news...with him departing along with raikonen our sport will become far more "pure".

Good news for You. For people on stages another car less and that's no good news in any way.

[Daniel]

Good news for You. For people on stages another car less and that's no good news in any way.

Anyone who judges the health of a sport by how many WRCars go by is an idiot.

[N.O.T]

i prefer to see rally drivers on stages...but ok that is my opinion.

[Motorsportfun]

i prefer to see rally drivers on stages...but ok that is my opinion.

Wouldn't it be better to see "rally drivers" and also many privateer drivers on the stages?

IMHO yes!

[N.O.T]

no i prefer rally drivers in the penicle of the sport... i go to see a rally, not a parade of cars.

If i want to see car parade i go to village events in my country...for the WRC i want only the top to compete in all classes.

[darkstar]

block was/is nice to watch on some places, there are defenetly worse drivers around.

[Barreis]

All rally drivers should and must be welcome.

[Daniel]

Anyone who judges that less competitors (no matter how good or bad they are) means a better competition, is an idiot...
Quality, not quantity.

If the WRC becomes a series full of gentlemen drivers then the series dies.

[Mirek]

Anyone who judges the health of a sport by how many WRCars go by is an idiot.

Blabla... How can a one driver more do the competition worse? Will Sebs, JML etc. drive worse because Block is there with them? No. So the only difference is that Block is not there and there is one less car to watch. If You go watching stages live just because of three or four drivers and than You come home, ok, it's You choice but I'm absolutely sure, You and NOT are in very very small minority.

[Daniel]

Blabla... How can a one driver more do the competition worse? Will Sebs, JML etc. drive worse because Block is there with them? No. So the only difference is that Block is not there and there is one less car to watch. If You go watching stages live just because of three or four drivers and than You come home, ok, it's You choice but I'm absolutely sure, You and NOT are in very very small minority.

You're missing what i was saying. I am saying that losing a driver who is never going to win isn't exactly going to kill the series. If we lost the two WORKS Citroen drivers then that would really harm the WRC.

[cali]

Quality, not quantity.

If the WRC becomes a series full of gentlemen drivers then the series dies.

Yes, I would LIKE to go to see WRC Neste Oil Rally with 6 drivers. Would be very cool

[Daniel]

Yes, I would LIKE to go to see WRC Neste Oil Rally with 6 drivers. Would be very cool

What is it about this thread that means no one on here can understand a rather simple post? I never said I wanted to see less cars, I simply said that losing 2 drivers who weren't exactly competitive isn't really the biggest loss. I'd MUCH rather see someone in a lower class car which is more competitive than a couple of famous also rans in WRCars.

[Allyc85]

Quality, not quantity.

If the WRC becomes a series full of gentlemen drivers then the series dies.

Isnt it dead anyway in anything but the enthusiasts eyes?

Id rather go see loads of WRC cars with a few quality drivers, rather than a handful of top drivers and then just group N, R3 stuff etc!

[focus206]

block was/is nice to watch on some places, there are defenetly worse drivers around.

It's not that I'm happy if Block leaves WRC, but I juge him as one of the slowest WRC drivers of the last years. Sure, it may be nice to watch, but the speed isn't there...

[Daniel]

It's not that I'm happy if Block leaves WRC, but I juge him as one of the slowest WRC drivers of the last years. Sure, it may be nice to watch, but the speed isn't there...

Sadly some people don't seem to care. As long as there's a WRCar on the stage they seem to mindlessly think that this is good for the sport.

[Mirek]

You're missing what i was saying. I am saying that losing a driver who is never going to win isn't exactly going to kill the series. If we lost the two WORKS Citroen drivers then that would really harm the WRC.

I never said it's going to kill the series or anything like that. Why do You answer something what was never said?

[AndyRAC]

Isn't it dead anyway in anything but the enthusiasts eyes?

I'd rather go see loads of WRC cars with a few quality drivers, rather than a handful of top drivers and then just group N, R3 stuff etc!

I rather think it is. Quite often, the sport and everything connected with it are mocked if you go on various websites, forums, podcasts, etc

[Josti]

I don't mind him competing as there should always be a place for privateers in WRC, but his team shouldn't have been a registered manufacturer, at least if WRC takes itself seriously. Likewise for most other sole privateers.

[OldF]

Quality, not quantity.

If the WRC becomes a series full of gentlemen drivers then the series dies.

Actually the rallying started with gentlemnen drivers.

[N.O.T]

I want to see the WRC to have only the best drivers...and by best i mean those that have to offer something apart from their name...not necessary to be winners but at least to manage and offer good stage times and give their best, for example solberg cannot win an event but the sport will be poorer next year because of his departure.

Kimis,Blocks,Slowsons,Oliveras,Araujos ects ects do not have something to offer for me they are just time wasters since we could see the top guys from each class go and then have time to see more stages rather than wait for them to cruise through, maybe they are good to see who of the lesser class drivers are good and can be faster than them.....

I would not mind an entry of 30-40 cars of the absolute best from each class.

There are village events to go and see the local heros who pretend to be rally drivers, no need for the WRC to become like that....it should have an aura that only the best can be there.

But that is my opinion.

[cali]

What is it about this thread that means no one on here can understand a rather simple post? I never said I wanted to see less cars, I simply said that losing 2 drivers who weren't exactly competitive isn't really the biggest loss. I'd MUCH rather see someone in a lower class car which is more competitive than a couple of famous also rans in WRCars.

Nothing to cheer about either

[MJW]

So you guys who want to get rid of Ken Block, and Kimi, and Van Merksteins and anyone else who are not "top class" - do you want to tell the MSport and PH guys that they are redundant? and I don't mean Malcolm and Benoit Nogier, the ordinary guys on low money both in the factory and on event. Because if you get your wish they wont be needed.

[OldF]

Anyone who judges the health of a sport by how many WRCars go by is an idiot.

- ~ 1000

There should be a dislike button also.

Don’t forget that many of these “quantity” drivers paying the entry feee etc. enables the running of rallies.

The so called lower level WRC drivers is not doing so spectacular driving but IMO it’s nicer to spectate a bad WRC driver than these boring N4 cars. Even N3, R2 and R3 cars are nicear to spectate. Ok, I’ve some spectacular driving with N4 cars also but the sound is so LAME.

[Mirek]

Actually the rallying started with gentlemnen drivers.

Amen

Whole motorsport was founded by wealthy gentlemen. While gentleman drivers has been natural part of the sport since the very first days, professional drivers were delivered by factory teams much later. And the fact is that rallying without gentleman drivers would just die. Simple as that. Some people must wake up from dreams about 50 professional robots on stages. That will never happen and a handful of them can not keep the sport alive. No-one would organize a rally for less than a dozen of cars and no-one would come to watch except N.O.T. and Daniel who would fly to the other side of the globe to see two Sebs alone.
Loss of any driver shall never be considered good news and cheering that is just stupid.

[N.O.T]

i think that its because of sebs some people are travelling to the other side of the world not to see Slowsons,kimis ects...otherwise we would visit any local village event on the map.

The WRC should have the best or at least competent people, the rest of the rally events including the IRC ERC APRC can have whoever wants to call himself a rally driver because that is their purpose.

[tfp]

Ken Block last year scored just 2 points in the season. Loeb scored 270 or something. But Loeb winning another title was never going to attract any more fans. Ken Block is well known world wide from his gymkhana videos and will have brought the attention of the sport to many more new fans.

Rallying is a unique sport where the rookie new drivers in lower classes get to compete at the same event alongside the worlds best, that is rallying for you. And one less car on a stage is never a good thing.

[sollitt]

Rallying is a unique sport where the rookie new drivers in lower classes get to compete at the same event alongside the worlds best, that is rallying for you. And one less car on a stage is never a good thing. You're onto it tfp. Rallying is an inclusive sport. Take that away and it ceases to be what it is and will lose appeal.

[N.O.T]

Maybe the fact that everyone can jump in the same league as the big boys if they have the money made it lost its appeal as well.... its a double razor knife i think, and that is why i believe that the WRC must set a few standards to make it appealing to a larger public...since most people are fascinated when something is difficult to get into and has high standards.

[Motorsportfun]

no i prefer rally drivers in the penicle of the sport... i go to see a rally, not a parade of cars.

If i want to see car parade i go to village events in my country...for the WRC i want only the top to compete in all classes.

So, according to you, we should have WRC events with just 20 or 30 crews running thru the weekend?

What do the spectators think about it? And what about the organizers?

IMHO they'll want you dead, if such a thing would happen! :D

[danon]

Everybody is entitled to have their chance and try to reach the top.

If he/she/it - fails, he/she/it - gives up. As simple as that.

A process, called - Natural Selection.

[N.O.T]

IMHO they'll want you dead, if such a thing would happen! :D

there is a looong line for that....

I do not care what organisers and spectators think....i care about what is the proper thing to do in my opinion. If getting rid of tourists makes organisers of WRC events angry so be it the candidates are numerous to take their place. And if spectators who value numbers above quality leave the sport then its going to be a better place for sure.

As i said...there is a place for everyone who thinks he is a rally driver...

[N.O.T]

Everybody is entitled to have their chance and try to reach the top.

If he/she/it - fails, he/she/it - gives up. As simple as that.

A process, called - Natural Selection.

not when it comes to rallying unfortunately...in EVERY other sport/motosport must prove yourself to reach he top, and if you fail at the top then "they quit" you....in the WRC you just spend more money (like slowson).

And that is where my objection lies...we need to have standards at the TOP of the sport.

[Josti]

As I said earlier, they shouldn't have allowed teams like Monster WRT or Brazil WRT (and a few more) be registered as manufacturers, and with that pretend like they're serious competitors. But if they want to compete in WRC events, let them. It's been like that since its incarnation, and only now some people suddenly see it as a problem.

[janvanvurpa]

Anyone who judges that less competitors (no matter how good or bad they are) means a better competition, is an idiot...

Anybody not impressed with Raikonenenen's spped right out of the gate in the "old" cars and his good transition to the "new' 1.6 cars is an idiot..

Seems we have proven beyond reasonable doubt that NOT is NOT too bright.

And Hello! Neighbor Tommeke_B! My family comes from right by Roeselare. Well we would have been neighbors up to about 1634....
I did chase some cute girls in Roselare and Westerroozebeke many years ago...boy did I like the local lamcic beers and fritjes!
We guess the whole beer, fritjes and falling in "lurv" with the 2 girls---best friends---was some genetic throwback.

Jan v L

[janvanvurpa]

Actually the rallying started with gentlemnen drivers.

Sure it did. But well into the late 80s or even early 90s, (with the exception of some crazy years of 200 total, and 10% ''Evolution'' models under Group B times) indeed up to the arrival of the "Wörld Rally Car'' rules the cars the heroes, the really fast cays were in the basic car wasn't DRASTICALLY different in terms of the most basic thing about a car : the body shell.... and the suspension that bolts to it...

I owner and rallied a Saab, built at a higher spec because of our free-er rules, only 7 years after it won itäs last WRC event---and good drivers, not me!!! but good drivers could still make them go well.

I own a Sierra Cosworth 4x4 thing had it only 6-7 years after they were a reasonable car at the highest levels.
Me. A mechanic and machinist.

I will never SIT in any car built under the Wörld rally Car rules..
I will never be able to afford Reiger or whatever söspendös at 4000 euros per corner and giving 33+35 cm travel

Back when the CARS were imaginable, identification, imagining doing what those Gentlemän Draivers was possible, so they weren't in the least annoying.

Now at most national levels the cost of the car alone has created a ''auto- um ) va fan är ordet för 'gallering''_? Utslag process? ) limited ''gene-pool'' so to speak.
basically in most countries the sport is insanely expensive for any current car and only people with lots of money from somewhere can afford the CURRENT CARS dvs homologated cars...
The higher the class the more the money needed.

Its clear at some point the ability to rasie money becomes far more important than driving ability.

Then Vörlds Sampiönship rally becomes become no longer a time for watching being blown away at the top 20 and ''identifying' with those other guys, it becomes only for use to ''admire'' and''adore'' the 'heroes'..

Besides, the entry isn't a zero-sum game.....one rich guy out, another rich guy in, not a lot of difference.

[AMSS]

not when it comes to rallying unfortunately...in EVERY other sport/motosport must prove yourself to reach he top, and if you fail at the top then "they quit" you....in the WRC you just spend more money (like slowson).

And that is where my objection lies...we need to have standards at the TOP of the sport.

Really, what about 75% of all F1 drivers...?

[N.O.T]

i do not bother with F1 since 1999 so i really do not know the situation there...are there pay drivers there ? who are they ?

[Brother John]

In EVERY other sport/motosport must prove yourself to reach he top, and if you fail at the top then "they quit" you....in the WRC you just spend more money (like slowson). And that is where my objection lies...we need to have standards at the TOP of the sport.

From me, may all factory teams disappear from WRC as race participants and there were more factories that build cheaper rallycars that are equivalent for all!
If you do not have to pay expensive drivers and may sell cheaper rallycars. Those who would sell many cars have the best chance of winning the factory championship!
With all cars sold, similar tuned for all the same, there would be more top drivers that can win a wrcrally as you can see on IRC!
I guess nobody would likely have the chance to be so many years in a row wrcchampion as we saw in recent years.

[mm1]

Could we get back to topic?

[Mirek]

Sorry, I couldn't resist :D

http://www.toptopic.cz/files/Image/produkty/ego.png

[mm1]

:)

[tolis]

Craig Breen will drive his Fiesta S2000 in Rally Catalunya. He'll be eligible for SWRC points.

[Daniel]

You're onto it tfp. Rallying is an inclusive sport. Take that away and it ceases to be what it is and will lose appeal.

Certainly.

I think people are missing the point though.

I have nothing against people being in the WRC spending their own money how they like. But the true indication of a healthy WRC is when there are loads of top drivers in well prepared cars rather than just a few cars with a few top drivers


Compare the list of drivers and cars here -> RallyBase (http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?type=result&rallyid=25) to how it is at the moment. If you look at the retirement list, it seems like there's a greater depth of talent there than in the field at the moment. There are 3 WORLD CHAMPIONS in the retirement list with top cars.

I won't say I'm happy that Block or Kimi is gone, but I won't be crying myself to sleep over it tonight, there are far greater issues than losing them that we should be worried about.

[Daniel]

Anyone who judges that less competitors (no matter how good or bad they are) means a better competition, is an idiot...

Anyone who shoves a bottle of tomato sauce up his nose has a bottle of tomato sauce up his nose. What point are you badly attempting to make?

[Barreis]

Paddon in with chance to secure PWRC title in Australia | RallyBuzz (http://www.rallybuzz.com/hayden-paddon-pwrc-rally-australia/)

[OldF]

Press release - Citroën WRC (http://www.citroen-wrc.com/en/season/2011/rally/australia/press-release)

“Because of the technical regulations we can’t update the car as quickly as in the past. But we still have a few areas left and we can have options homologated every three months. We’ve already used two of the five jokers granted by the FIA for the car’s first year. These modifications have been made to the suspension and the steering. Where the engine’s concerned, we’re now working more in view of 2012. We have evolutions aimed at improving the overall performance and reliability as we’ll have to do six rallies with the same engine!”

Engineers doing recce.

“As in all the rallies the race engineers will go through the stages to assess the difficulties of the route from a purely technical point of view. If necessary, we can make some adjustments during the preparation of the cars.”

[Allyc85]

Craig Breen will drive his Fiesta S2000 in Rally Catalunya. He'll be eligible for SWRC points.

Excellent news, I look forward to seeing how he gets on :D

[tfp]

You're onto it tfp. Rallying is an inclusive sport. Take that away and it ceases to be what it is and will lose appeal.

Thankyou :) Maybe people who only want to watch top drivers at the pinnacle of motorsport should watch F1 instead ;) Thats not what rallying is all about!

[bluuford]

Picems for Australia? Any news or rumours?

[focus206]

Meanwhile, 2 times WTCC Champion Yvan Muller will do Rally Alsace again, this time with a 207 S2000
Google Traduttore (http://translate.google.it/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallyemotion.it%2Fnews%2F1023-wrc-yvan-muller-al-via-del-rally-alsaziano-su-207)

[AndyRAC]

Thankyou :) Maybe people who only want to watch top drivers at the pinnacle of motorsport should watch F1 instead ;) Thats not what rallying is all about!

Problem is, that is what the 'powers that be' wanted at the start of the 2000's - and look where that has got us.

The Greatest Years of Rallying: The Noughties; The decade Rallying lost the plot!!!

[tfp]

Problem is, that is what the 'powers that be' wanted at the start of the 2000's - and look where that has got us.

The Greatest Years of Rallying: The Noughties; The decade Rallying lost the plot!!!

Too right :p
The early 2000's? I really miss Burnsy :(

[janvanvurpa]

Problem is, that is what the 'powers that be' wanted at the start of the 2000's - and look where that has got us.

The Greatest Years of Rallying: The Noughties; The decade Rallying lost the plot!!!
Personally I spell it "naught", therefore the decade following the "Nineties" should be all rights be the "Naughties"...

[Plan9]

+1 I miss 3 car teams and 15 event calendars. Bring back Hyundai and Seat all is forgiven!!!!! =p

[jbmarcus21]

Sebastien Ogier enters to French National Rally Vosgien -17th sept-to prepare tarmac round News Rallyes 2011 (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/newsrallyes2011.htm)

[cali]

No rumours or gossip for a while, so I'll give you one.

Basically, when Mlcolm Wilson was asked about next years drivers, he did not want to give any names, but gave some hint - It could be Ott Tänak

More here (in finnish): Wilson haluaisi virolaiskuljettajan tiimiinsä - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/09/1386412/wilson-haluaisi-virolaiskuljettajan-tiimiinsa)

[Rallyper]

No rumours or gossip for a while, so I'll give you one.

Basically, when Mlcolm Wilson was asked about next years drivers, he did not want to give any names, but gave some hint - It could be Ott Tänak

More here (in finnish): Wilson haluaisi virolaiskuljettajan tiimiinsä - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/09/1386412/wilson-haluaisi-virolaiskuljettajan-tiimiinsa)

So then JML goes to VW.

[Miika]

In that case, poor Ott. I´d prefer to see him at VW also. Judging by that news bit it still sounds like Malcolm believes it is all about the drivers, surely the 0-8 losing streak has nothing to do with the cars breaking down in every possible way.

[AndyRAC]

Poor Ott, what has he done to deserve that?... ;)

If one of Ford's Finns goes to VW, surely they won't go with Hanninen then.....??

[focus206]

Judging by that news bit it still sounds like Malcolm believes it is all about the drivers, surely the 0-8 losing streak has nothing to do with the cars breaking down in every possible way.
Nah, it must be bad luck :D

[Barreis]

"Kostet, aber beeindruckt"*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/09/01/kostet-geld-aber-beeindruckt/index.html)

[N.O.T]

"Kostet, aber beeindruckt" :: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/09/01/kostet-geld-aber-beeindruckt/index.html)

nice interview but he forgot the part where the managers have to pay the teams to sustain their drivers...i wonder why.

[Barreis]

it's their only secret. :D

[MJW]

So then JML goes to VW.
Autosport report today growing rumours of a direct swap between Ogier and Hirvonen for 2012. Tanak is on a long term contract to Ford. I guess its some kind of succession planning because if JML and Ogier do end up as VW's drivers when they start in 2013, Ford will need the likes of Tanak and Ostberg.

[Viking]

nice interview but he forgot the part where the managers have to pay the teams to sustain their drivers...i wonder why.

He also forgot Petter Solberg in his list of "wrc champs under 30 years"

[N.O.T]

indeed...maybe the lack of champions he represents as rally drivers the last few years tickle his brains....

[DonJippo]

nice interview but he forgot the part where the managers have to pay the teams to sustain their drivers...i wonder why.

Sponsors do that not the managers.

[AndyRAC]

He, like Malcolm Wilson, thinks that to win, you need a Finn.......

[AP-Racing]

He, like Malcolm Wilson, thinks that to win, you need a Finn.......

you need a Seb

[Mise]

you need a Seb

to go to web?

[denkimi]

you need a Seb
just a citroen car and a french paspoort. :p :

[Mintexmemory]

Autosport report today growing rumours of a direct swap between Ogier and Hirvonen for 2012. Tanak is on a long term contract to Ford. I guess its some kind of succession planning because if JML and Ogier do end up as VW's drivers when they start in 2013, Ford will need the likes of Tanak and Ostberg.
JML's best chance of winning WRC is with the 'unproven' but hopefully properly resourced VW. I just hope that Ott has good advice from Markko on how to derive max benefit from his time in a Fiesta. Both moves are going to be hugely interesting if they occur.

[Mirek]

just a citroen car and a french paspoort. :p :

So I'm going to change my citizenship tomorrow and to buy a Citroën. Call me a rallying legend starting from tomorrow. Thank You!

[N.O.T]

stay out of hamburger shops also...it helps.

[tfp]

stay out of hamburger shops also...it helps.

:laugh:
That was quite funny, for you ;)
I take it you're referring to Duval? Just because you've got a beer belly, doesn't mean you cant win, see Daniel Elena :D

[N.O.T]

:laugh:
That was quite funny, for you ;)
I take it you're referring to Duval? Just because you've got a beer belly, doesn't mean you cant win, see Daniel Elena :D

maybe in the old days...but the sport evolved and is far harder and far more demanding today so every little counts.

[Mintexmemory]

maybe in the old days...but the sport evolved and is far harder and far more demanding today so every little counts.
So how much quicker would Loeb be if he had Ilka Minor (Henning's proxy diet!) beside him?

[Barreis]

:D

[tfp]

So how much quicker would Loeb be if he had Ilka Minor (Henning's proxy diet!) beside him?

:laugh:

[N.O.T]

So how much quicker would Loeb be if he had Ilka Minor (Henning's proxy diet!) beside him?

Gallis old co-driver is lighter than Mrs Petrasko...it doesn't have to do so much with weight more with the stamina and the endurance when it comes to drivers...for co-drivers doesn't really matter much but since he started to compete at high level Elena lost around 15 kg.

[Plan9]

Autosport report today growing rumours of a direct swap between Ogier and Hirvonen for 2012. Tanak is on a long term contract to Ford. I guess its some kind of succession planning because if JML and Ogier do end up as VW's drivers when they start in 2013, Ford will need the likes of Tanak and Ostberg.

Source for this????

I think that a JML & Ogier Ford team would be more intense than Sainz - McRae Subaru & Ford!!! If this is true they will challenge eachother (have ALOT of crashes), but it will be great for the sport!
Poor old Hirvonen will become the Massa of the WRC at Citroen, I cannot imagine he would be given joint number 1 status that both Sebs currently have.
I am not sure if Ogier or JML would want to change teams so often, if 1 goes to VW it will be ASAP and they wouldn't waste time. I still think that Petter Solberg, Hanninen & Mikkelsen are the most likely VW drivers at this stage.
Tanak & Ostberg will be also another intense fight to watch in the years ahead ;)

[N.O.T]

I do not think Ford has the money to pay Ogier...the 5 year plans needs all the help he needs when it comes to funding with zero personal sponsors.

[MJW]

Source for this????

I think that a JML & Ogier Ford team would be more intense than Sainz - McRae Subaru & Ford!!! If this is true they will challenge eachother (have ALOT of crashes), but it will be great for the sport!
Poor old Hirvonen will become the Massa of the WRC at Citroen, I cannot imagine he would be given joint number 1 status that both Sebs currently have.
I am not sure if Ogier or JML would want to change teams so often, if 1 goes to VW it will be ASAP and they wouldn't waste time. I still think that Petter Solberg, Hanninen & Mikkelsen are the most likely VW drivers at this stage.
Tanak & Ostberg will be also another intense fight to watch in the years ahead ;)
source for the Ogier /Hirvonen swap is the paper (not online) Autosport magazine published thursday in UK. There is a risk for anyone with a contract for 2012 to effectively sit out the season, and the sharpness that competing not testing gives you could work against someone like JML having a test and development year with VW. Petter is in a different position as he has no contract with a team for 2012, and faces the huge task of raising the budget and competing as a privateer. Even for Petter (who will be 37) a VW test and development season wont be ideal. You need to be doing the recce and rallies to be at the top in WRC, every year.

[Plan9]

Hmm in light of Loeb's recent accident there may be much more movement for next year than maybe we were expecting?

[Plan9]

source for the Ogier /Hirvonen swap is the paper (not online) Autosport magazine published thursday in UK. There is a risk for anyone with a contract for 2012 to effectively sit out the season, and the sharpness that competing not testing gives you could work against someone like JML having a test and development year with VW. Petter is in a different position as he has no contract with a team for 2012, and faces the huge task of raising the budget and competing as a privateer. Even for Petter (who will be 37) a VW test and development season wont be ideal. You need to be doing the recce and rallies to be at the top in WRC, every year.

I read that VW will do all of the rallies next year with s2000 Fabias. So we will also need to think about someone who is willing to give up a WRC car for a year. I don't see many hands. Not even Al-Yattah. I think it will be a IRC boys.

[rallyfiend]

I do not think Ford has the money to pay Ogier...the 5 year plans needs all the help he needs when it comes to funding with zero personal sponsors.

If Ogier is contracted to Citroen next year, yet they want to get rid of him for the good of the team harmony, then Malcolm may not need to pay for him - Citroen would!
Malcolm may even have to be paid to accept him.

Stranger things have happened.

[RS]

Autosport report today growing rumours of a direct swap between Ogier and Hirvonen for 2012.

What's in the deal for Citroen? Have they become bored of winning too easily?

[COD]

What's in the deal for Citroen? Have they become bored of winning too easily?

They get a nice, obeying, reliable no.2 driver who is the next Sordo for them. Can't win, but can take points for the team.

[Barreis]

Kimi Raikkonen excluded from World Rally Championship standings for skipping Australia - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94352)

[AndyRAC]

Kimi Raikkonen excluded from World Rally Championship standings for skipping Australia - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94352)

Hmm, ridiculous, that's the way to attract more privateers.......

[Franky]

Hmm, ridiculous, that's the way to attract more privateers.......

I'm pretty sure it's about excluding the IceOne from the manufactures standings, so it really doesn't make much difference for a privateer who scores only drivers points.

[Barreis]

Kubica set to test in simulator or high-performance car - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94388)

[Plan9]

Did Citroen ever make a road going variant of the Xsara WRC car?

[Zeakiwi]

Do you mean four wheel drive with a turbo engine ?

Citroën Xsara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Xsara)

[Barreis]

World Rally Championship - News - Q&A: Hayden Paddon (http://www.wrc.com/news/qa-hayden-paddon/?fid=15392)

[sollitt]

More speculation about Ogier to Ford ...
RallySport Magazine - EXCLUSIVE: Ogier set to join Ford for 2012 WRC (http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6157&Itemid=2)
Not saying it's accurate.

[N.O.T]

LOL...

Good for him...

LOL...

[traxx]

New shots of the "real" Polo R WRC from Franckfurt Motor Show :
La Polo R WRC est prête (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2011/09/13/la-polo-r-wrc-est-prete/)

[6789]

New shots of the "real" Polo R WRC from Franckfurt Motor Show :
La Polo R WRC est prête (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2011/09/13/la-polo-r-wrc-est-prete/)
I get an error on the link :(

[Mirek]

Looks like Fabia inside (for example steering rack looks same) :)

[mousti]

Same joystick also :)

[JTGANG]

New shots of the "real" Polo R WRC from Franckfurt Motor Show :
La Polo R WRC est prête (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2011/09/13/la-polo-r-wrc-est-prete/)

Nice looking !!!!!

[AndyRAC]

Frankfurt show: Lotus Exige rally - Autocar.co.uk (http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/259102/)

Lotus Exige R-GT.....seerms a shame it's limited to 298BHP...and 1200kg...

[cali]

Markko Märtin will test Fiesta ahead of coming tarmac rounds
Ford-pomo keventää suomalaiskuskiensa taakkaa - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/09/1390578/ford-pomo-keventaa-suomalaiskuskiensa-taakkaa)

[tfp]

Markko Märtin will test Fiesta ahead of coming tarmac rounds
Ford-pomo keventää suomalaiskuskiensa taakkaa - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/09/1390578/ford-pomo-keventaa-suomalaiskuskiensa-taakkaa)

Finally, a step in the right direction!!

[mousti]

Has this been posted yet?

World Rally Championship - News - Father’s praise for Wilson (http://www.wrc.com/news/fathers-praise-for-wilson/?fid=15398)

If I saw the title I already stopped reading, just a waste of time..

[N.O.T]

Has this been posted yet?

World Rally Championship - News - Father’s praise for Wilson (http://www.wrc.com/news/fathers-praise-for-wilson/?fid=15398)

If I saw the title I already stopped reading, just a waste of time..

what a disgrace....

[focus206]

Has this been posted yet?

World Rally Championship - News - Father’s praise for Wilson (http://www.wrc.com/news/fathers-praise-for-wilson/?fid=15398)

If I saw the title I already stopped reading, just a waste of time..

and I see he talks about budget for next year... so it would be the 7th year of the 5-year-plan :D

[N.O.T]

Slowson makes me physically sick.....

[Josti]

Has this been posted yet?

World Rally Championship - News - Father’s praise for Wilson (http://www.wrc.com/news/fathers-praise-for-wilson/?fid=15398)

If I saw the title I already stopped reading, just a waste of time..

Dirty stuff.

[wildsir]

He would be deserving of that praise....
If he'd done the rally in reverse...
He was feck*ng 9 minutes back!

[sollitt]

That's a good article. Justifiable praise for the young fella but not over the top. Hopefully he can get funding to continue.

[cali]

Finnish news site MTV3.fi - Uutta koko ajan (http://www.mtv3.fi) reports today that according to french news agency France24 contract between Ford & Ogier is done and waiting for signatures from both sides.

Ranskalaisväite: Ogierin Ford-sopimus jo valmiina - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/09/1390923/ranskalaisvaite-ogierin-ford-sopimus-jo-valmiina)

[Francis44]

Wow I guess this Ogier Ford deal is really going to happen, there's no smoke without fire.

[6789]

Latvala and Ogier at Ford?? Awesome!

[focus206]

It would be great if it really happens... great for Ford at least, I don't know how can be great for Ogier...

[Barreis]

Maybe he's stupid. He got his chance this weekend but crashed out. What does he want now?! Ford is not good as citroen. He can go.

[Hartusvuori]

I would treat this information still more on the "rumours" part rather than "news". First I'd like to see the original piece from France24, and secondly we don't get to know about these deals until they're signed. If Ogier signs with Ford, fine, it would move things around a bit, but really - is he that dissatisfied with Citroen at the moment. We will know by Christmas.

However, MTV3 has interviewed Latvala (http://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtv3.fi%2Furheilu%2Fralli%2Fuut iset.shtml%2F2011%2F09%2F1391076%2Flatvala-citronista-ei-helppo-paikka-suomalaiselle&act=url) on the possible move to Citroen. But this all is just talk to keep you warm.

[Daniel]

That's a good article. Justifiable praise for the young fella but not over the top. Hopefully he can get funding to continue.

Are you serious? I'm not going to going to start being rude or get to using emotive language, but if Matthew wasn't Malcolm's son then he wouldn't be where he is and wouldn't get so much testing time to help him improve. Heck, Matty was involved in the development of the Fiesta S2000 and WRCar. I'm sorry, but a professional team just wouldn't have a driver who is as poor as Matthew developing their cars.

[GigiGalliNo1]

he wouldn't be where he is and wouldn't get so much testing time to help him improve.

Sorry, did Daniel say Mateusz Wilsonowisz "Help him improve"????

[focus206]

Sorry, did Daniel say Mateusz Wilsonowisz "Help him improve"????

Oh, I heard about this Polish driver, seems like next year Malcolm wants him to join the Stobart team to replace Matthew, to start a new 5-years-plan :D

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sorry, spelling mistake Wilsonowicsz

[Daniel]

Sorry, did Daniel say Mateusz Wilsonowisz "Help him improve"????

Well there's lot of scope for it!

[Daniel]

Oh, I heard about this Polish driver, seems like next year Malcolm wants him to join the Stobart team to replace Matthew, to start a new 5-years-plan :D

I hear there's a Finnish guy called Wilsonninnenoninnen waiting in the wings to take Wilson's place if he gets snapped up by a big team.

[tfp]

Seriously guys, these Wilson bashing threads are getting really boring.

[tfp]

Finnish news site MTV3.fi - Uutta koko ajan (http://www.mtv3.fi) reports today that according to french news agency France24 contract between Ford & Ogier is done and waiting for signatures from both sides.

Ranskalaisväite: Ogierin Ford-sopimus jo valmiina - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/09/1390923/ranskalaisvaite-ogierin-ford-sopimus-jo-valmiina)

Hmmm....Could we have a translation? :D

Maybe these werent rumours!

[Daniel]

Seriously guys, these Wilson bashing threads are getting really boring.

Not more boring than reading praise for Matty.

[tfp]

Not more boring than reading praise for Matty.

There's already plenty of threads bashing him, raikkonen or block, etc etc, cant see the point in ruining another thread.

[Daniel]

There's already plenty of threads bashing him, raikkonen or block, etc etc, cant see the point in ruining another thread.

Perhaps the internet is not for you. This thread is for news, someone considered it news and we commented on it.

[Barreis]

Riedemann mit zweiter VW-Chance*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/09/15/riedemann-mit-zweiter-vw-chance/index.html)

[N.O.T]

Riedemann mit zweiter VW-Chance :: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/09/15/riedemann-mit-zweiter-vw-chance/index.html)

wrong choice.

[Mirek]

For me it's interesting the second name - Yeray Lemes :)

[darkstar]

wrong choice.

defenetly...i mean, for me of course its nice to see a german driver again and riedemann is a very kind and fast guy too, but others also had deserved a chance. i dont really understand what´s that good for. i think, if they want a german, they should also have an eye on sepp wiegand and build him up till 2013 for a 2nd team car. he´s very talented, at least i hope so. let´s see what rallye de france will bring...

[pino]

Perhaps the internet is not for you. This thread is for news, someone considered it news and we commented on it.



Daniel I agree with tfp, so please lets use this thread for news and rumours only, thank you :)

[MJW]

lots of stuff buzzing on the wrc set's twitter pages tonight about "exciting stuff and driver moves"

[sollitt]

Are you serious? Absolutely!

[AndyRAC]

lots of stuff buzzing on the wrc set's twitter pages tonight about "exciting stuff and driver moves"

To be honest, the sport needs a good shake up......one day Ford might employ non Finns....... ;)

[mousti]

I expected Abbring for Catalunya damn :(

[6789]

Paddon for GB with Skoda?

[rallyfiend]

Paddon for GB with Skoda?

He can't.

He must take the start in PWRC to be confirmed as Champion.

[sollitt]

I think you'll find that he is contracted to begin the event but free to change category.

[6789]

I think you'll find that he is contracted to begin the event but free to change category.

That's what I thought, he was talking about doing Spain in PWRC and then looking at options for GB. Hope VW give him a Skoda! He has contacts at Ford as well, so maybe Fiesta

[Maui J.]

Are you serious?

I think it's called Irony? It's like goldy and brassy but it's made from iron!


He can't.

He must take the start in PWRC to be confirmed as Champion.

My understanding is that the team must enter but that doesn't mean Hayden has to drive. This happened at Rally NZ 2010 when local driver Kingsley Thompson took over the drive for the Czech National Team usually driven by Marten Semerad. It happened also last weekend at Rally Austarlia when Brendon Reeves took over the entry for the Bilbutikken AS World Rally Team usually driven by Anders Grondal. They must enter as the team to keep the FIA happy and not be fined or excluded from the championship, the driver and car can be different.
Often this happens on 'away' events when teams haven't got the finances to travel to the other side of the world.
It seems like a team must commit to the championship, not the driver.

One thing that may keep him doing the PWRC in GB is his contract with Symtech.

[WRCfan]

He can't.

He must take the start in PWRC to be confirmed as Champion.

Incorrect, Paddon himself has stated he would like to tackle GB in a different class preferably WRC. He is obliged to compete but not in PWRC only.

[Plan9]

Paddon for GB with Skoda?
Maybe a Mini ST2000???

[Hartusvuori]

Add fuel to the fire: Finnish newspaper Turun Sanomat is quoting Italian Auto Sprint magazine (http://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ts.fi%2Fmoottoriurheilu%2Fralli %2F257548.html), saying M-Sport would be having deals ready for Latvala and Tänak for 2012 - and drumroll - Malcolm's offering Hirvonen a pay seat at Stobart!

According to Auto Sprint Hirvonen's drop from Ford would make him more likely a VW driver. VW is set to test for 20-25 weeks in 2012.

I think I'll be dissappointed after all these rumours when we see JML/Hirvonen and Loeb/Ogier starting in their usual cars next year...

Funny thing too, that apparently someone has made Google's translator tool believe that Mikko Hirvonen in English language spells Petter Solberg...

[N.O.T]

the sad thing is that all these rumours come from either Finnish or British media... their frustration is up to an extend justifiable since the french managed to totally wipe them of the rally map the last decade...

As for Latvala/tanak team i think for at least 2 years ford will be out of contention of any titles. Hirvonen at WV would be a solid choice.

[Hartusvuori]

the sad thing is that all these rumours come from either Finnish or British media... their frustration is up to an extend justifiable since the french managed to totally wipe them of the rally map the last decade...

Please do note that Finnish media is only quoting French and Italian sources on this, not making their own scoops.

And if you consider two world championship titles, four 2nd places and two 3rd places in the last decade "totally wiping of the rally map".... oh.

[N.O.T]

And if you consider two world championship titles, four 2nd places and two 3rd places in the last decade "totally wiping of the rally map".... oh.

2nd and 3rd places have absolutely no value in the car market, and almost no value in driver market as well....so yup they wiped them off the rally map. COMPLETELY.

[Bobcat]

the sad thing is that all these rumours come from either Finnish or British media...
lol

You are wrong again.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/147877-sebastien-ogier-5.html#post964439
http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/147877-sebastien-ogier-5.html#post964571

[Barreis]

Yeray Lemes latest to get VW World Rally Championship audition - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94562)

[Plan9]

Kia Rio as the basis of a WRC program is looking to become a stronger possibility, according to this article:

Kia Rio: Small car sector gets complicated - Motoring - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10752258)

I am not sure if I am ready to believe it just yet.

[Plan9]

Add fuel to the fire: Finnish newspaper Turun Sanomat is quoting Italian Auto Sprint magazine (http://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ts.fi%2Fmoottoriurheilu%2Fralli %2F257548.html), saying M-Sport would be having deals ready for Latvala and Tänak for 2012 - and drumroll - Malcolm's offering Hirvonen a pay seat at Stobart!

According to Auto Sprint Hirvonen's drop from Ford would make him more likely a VW driver. VW is set to test for 20-25 weeks in 2012.

I think I'll be dissappointed after all these rumours when we see JML/Hirvonen and Loeb/Ogier starting in their usual cars next year...

Funny thing too, that apparently someone has made Google's translator tool believe that Mikko Hirvonen in English language spells Petter Solberg...

I think Wilson would be silly to drop Hirvonen, he is far less accident prone. Latvala and Tanak are not yet the kind of drivers that could help Ford secure the Manufacturers crown yet. Although they would generate a lot of hits on Youtube for crashes due to their intense rivalry.

It's looking a bit crowded at VW now isn't it? I'd be keen on a Hirvonen-Hänninen team but I'm not sure where that would leave all the young drivers they are assessing, unless a stobart b team is being considered.

[bretddog]

Wilson can impossibly have any desire to get rid of or demote Hirvonen. He got a consistency on par with Loeb, if given a reliable competitive car. Crucial in fight for a Manu-title.

But Hirvonen would have a fantastic opportunity if he can take the VW spot for 2012. Sure he will lose a season, but if it's a 2 or 3 year contract, that route will be his best chance of getting a driver's title, and simply for his future in the sport. To wait one season and potentially being jumped by other drivers is too risky. He gotta take this opportunity although it's not the perfect one. 2012 with Ford is still not going to give him any realistic title chance, so the loss is really not that significant.

I'm sure the Stobart-rumor now is simply Wilson trying to make him uneasy about his seat, to press on an extension for 2012.

[AndyRAC]

the sad thing is that all these rumours come from either Finnish or British media...


It's definately not the British media.....99.9% of the British media wouldn't know the WRC if it hit them in the face......


Hirvonen paying for a Stobart seat...???? :mad: He's won 14 WRC events, why should he have to pay for a WRC seat? I hope he gets a VW or Citroen seat and tells Ford/M-Sport were to stick it. Similar to Petter, a former World Champion.....who struggled for a seat last year.....
The sport is a joke sometimes....

[tfp]

It's definately not the British media.....99.9% of the British media wouldn't know the WRC if it hit them in the face......



+1 :up: Autosport proves this, when loeb signed his 2 year agreement, it was overshadowed by a news article on GP2. GP2, For gods sake!

[tfp]

Hirvonen paying for a Stobart seat...???? :mad: He's won 14 WRC events, why should he have to pay for a WRC seat? I hope he gets a VW or Citroen seat and tells Ford/M-Sport were to stick it. Similar to Petter, a former World Champion.....who struggled for a seat last year.....
The sport is a joke sometimes....

+2 :up: Hit the nail on the head there. Ok, so he may not be as quick as he used to be, but he's been second in the title standings for most of the season, and is the only one with an outside chance to stop Loeb with his ongoing continueous reign.

[6789]

I saw Chis Atkinsons Dad flying the team manager from
Brazil WRT around in his helicopter at rally Australia. He droppe into the private land we had on Sat, so did MSP-AU in his helicopter :)

So Atkinsons probably trying for a seat in the Brazil WRT?

[Plan9]

I saw Chis Atkinsons Dad flying the team manager from
Brazil WRT around in his helicopter at rally Australia. He droppe into the private land we had on Sat, so did MSP-AU in his helicopter :)

So Atkinsons probably trying for a seat in the Brazil WRT?
+1 I really hope so too.

[Plan9]

+2 :up: Hit the nail on the head there. Ok, so he may not be as quick as he used to be, but he's been second in the title standings for most of the season, and is the only one with an outside chance to stop Loeb with his ongoing continueous reign.

+3. I agree with what you guys have been saying. If the circumstances were different I am sure that things would be different for Petter, I for one am horrified about what has happened to Petter. Hirvonen's dip in form is understandable considering his team and the main opposition I feel.

The following article has quite an interesting take on the VW driver situation (although it is only a speculation on the author's part) Which WRC Drivers Will VW Sign? (http://www.mudsnowandtar.com/opinion/which-drivers-will-vw-sign)

I suspect that the GFC and loss of car companies has undermined the WRC's cred somewhat. Also there is a much wider variety of skills in the field, in comparision to the 1990's where most front running drivers had a similar level of skill.

[Plan9]

What do you reckon? Should NZ and Oz have a 3 year rotation each?
MaxRally | News | Smeets: let them fight it out (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/smeets_let_them_fight_it_out/)

[OldF]

+3. I agree with what you guys have been saying. If the circumstances were different I am sure that things would be different for Petter, I for one am horrified about what has happened to Petter. Hirvonen's dip in form is understandable considering his team and the main opposition I feel.

The following article has quite an interesting take on the VW driver situation (although it is only a speculation on the author's part) Which WRC Drivers Will VW Sign? (http://www.mudsnowandtar.com/opinion/which-drivers-will-vw-sign)

I suspect that the GFC and loss of car companies has undermined the WRC's cred somewhat. Also there is a much wider variety of skills in the field, in comparision to the 1990's where most front running drivers had a similar level of skill.

Very systematic analysis in that article. If they sign Juho Hänninen I think it would still be possible for him to do some rounds with Skoda and keep the touch with rallying. He’s done lot of testing with Skoda and the suspension of a S2000 and a WRC are similar. I don’t know but I believe the homologation regulations regarding the suspension are same for WRC and S2000.

[GigiGalliNo1]

What do you reckon? Should NZ and Oz have a 3 year rotation each?
MaxRally | News | Smeets: let them fight it out (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/smeets_let_them_fight_it_out/)

No. Just rotate. I'm happy

[Plan9]

Very systematic analysis in that article. If they sign Juho Hänninen I think it would still be possible for him to do some rounds with Skoda and keep the touch with rallying. He’s done lot of testing with Skoda and the suspension of a S2000 and a WRC are similar. I don’t know but I believe the homologation regulations regarding the suspension are same for WRC and S2000.

+1 I agree. What do you think about the role of the junior drivers will be? If they choose Hannien + another WRC regular (Solberg, Hirvonen) it will be a senior and experience based team and not at all youthful.

[Plan9]

No. Just rotate. I'm happy
I hope Mouton and Todt come to the same conclusion. I don't want to wait 3 years for the WRC to come to my town.

[tfp]

What do you reckon? Should NZ and Oz have a 3 year rotation each?
MaxRally | News | Smeets: let them fight it out (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/smeets_let_them_fight_it_out/)

I like both of the rallies, so I dont mind :)

[Barreis]

For me Australia has better roads.

[GigiGalliNo1]

NZ for spectators ;)

[focus206]

I like Australia, but I prefer NZ... if it was for me, I would have them both in the calendar, instead of Jordan or Mexico, but well... just a personal opinion.

[Rallyper]

+1 I agree. What do you think about the role of the junior drivers will be? If they choose Hannien + another WRC regular (Solberg, Hirvonen) it will be a senior and experience based team and not at all youthful.

Don´t forget swedish Henning Solberg stepson Pontus Tidemand who is outpacing Swedish Champion Mats Jonsson in his Fiesta 2000. He would be one of the best choices VW could do among the coming youngsters.

[Mirek]

Problem of Tidemand is almost no international and asphalt experience. Driving fast on home soil is one thing, driving fast elsewhere is the other and it takes time to learn that. I'm sure that for the long term "junior" seat they want German or at least German speaking guy.

[AndyRAC]

+3. I agree with what you guys have been saying. If the circumstances were different I am sure that things would be different for Petter, I for one am horrified about what has happened to Petter. Hirvonen's dip in form is understandable considering his team and the main opposition I feel.

The following article has quite an interesting take on the VW driver situation (although it is only a speculation on the author's part) Which WRC Drivers Will VW Sign? (http://www.mudsnowandtar.com/opinion/which-drivers-will-vw-sign)

I suspect that the GFC and loss of car companies has undermined the WRC's cred somewhat. Also there is a much wider variety of skills in the field, in comparision to the 1990's where most front running drivers had a similar level of skill.

I'm afraid you're right with this - it was, and is meant to be second only to F1 in terms of prestige. Sadly, it's nowhere near......and with the new FiA WEC next year, it will likely fall even more. Unless, some more Manufacturers can be tempted - and when are they going to join???

[dimviii]

Problem of Tidemand is almost no international and asphalt experience. Driving fast on home soil is one thing, driving fast elsewhere is the other and it takes time to learn that..
Agree,we ve seen it plenty of times.


I'm sure that for the long term "junior" seat they want German or at least German speaking guy.
i have the same feeling from their choices,and that remembers me the last time they were in wrc.
Seems that they confuse France system with the German one....

[tfp]

I like Australia, but I prefer NZ... if it was for me, I would have them both in the calendar, instead of Jordan or Mexico, but well... just a personal opinion.

Bugger it, lets just have the lot ;)

[Rallyper]

Problem of Tidemand is almost no international and asphalt experience. Driving fast on home soil is one thing, driving fast elsewhere is the other and it takes time to learn that. I'm sure that for the long term "junior" seat they want German or at least German speaking guy.

I think you´re wrong. Pontus is even a former gocart racing driver, and of course he has been competing in Norway championship as well. More experienced than you think.

[darkstar]

Hirvonen at WV would be a solid choice.

what´s that WV thing about? i just dont get it...

[Mirek]

I think you´re wrong. Pontus is even a former gocart racing driver, and of course he has been competing in Norway championship as well. More experienced than you think.

It's nice to be fast on go karts but that itself doesn't make You good asphalt rally driver. Of course it helps but would You believe that for example Antonín Tlusťák was many years a go similarly fast on karts as Jan Kopecký (if You even know who Tlusťák is :) )? There are many examples like that... The same comes to foreign experience. Sweden, Norway, ok, I know about that. It's two countries but still just two neighboring countries. There are many very different terrains all over the world.

I don't say he won't one day become a world class driver but I'm sure that factory teams are searching prior between drivers who already proved themselves on the roads of WRC or IRC. Hopefully he can get into the world soon because it will take time for him to become more than just a local specialist.

[Rallyper]

It's nice to be fast on go karts but that itself doesn't make You good asphalt rally driver. Of course it helps but would You believe that for example Antonín Tlusťák was many years a go similarly fast on karts as Jan Kopecký (if You even know who Tlusťák is :) )? There are many examples like that... The same comes to foreign experience. Sweden, Norway, ok, I know about that. It's two countries but still just two neighboring countries. There are many very different terrains all over the world.

I don't say he won't one day become a world class driver but I'm sure that factory teams are searching prior between drivers who already proved themselves on the roads of WRC or IRC. Hopefully he can get into the world soon because it will take time for him to become more than just a local specialist.

Why should asfalt experience be the ultimate measure for a good driver? Wouldn´it be gravel and snow that is most important? Having said that doesn´t mean tarmac/asfalt experience shouldn´t be counted out, but in my world it isn´t the way you pick best drivers from. That is I think been proven so many times (except for the two Sebs maybe)

[Mirek]

Including one Seb - Ogier who was long time faster on gravel than on tarmac ;)

I didn't say tarmac driving is all but to be an important world class player You have to be all-rounder. Being fast on gravel and snow is not enough because those like Loeb or Ogier are not slower on gravel and in the same time they make You a clown on asphalt and make Your championship efforts over just by that.

[Barreis]

Finns aren't masters anymore.