[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

[ste898]

Stobart are still logistics supplier to MSport and Ford so I guess its a downscaling, but still enough to warrant exposure on the car.

Tes you are right in what you say

[Plan9]

why is Matthew Wilson still part of M-Sport Stobart? Weren't we promised that he would not be here???? At least he is not part of Monster....btw do we know who will be driving the second car next to Block? In other news I looked at the M-sport website and there is not Castrol mentioned at the bottom of the site...i was very surprised!!!

[alleskids]

yesterday the Castrol Edge logo was on the site, now it is gone. Abu Dhabi 's logo is a lot bigger

[6789]

why is Matthew Wilson still part of M-Sport Stobart? Weren't we promised that he would not be here???? At least he is not part of Monster....btw do we know who will be driving the second car next to Block? In other news I looked at the M-sport website and there is not Castrol mentioned at the bottom of the site...i was very surprised!!!

I don't think there is a second Monster car.

[Roy]

yesterday the Castrol Edge logo was on the site, now it is gone. Abu Dhabi 's logo is a lot bigger

Well all logo's are bigger now, and Michelin logo are gone too. I think today they are back. Official announcement is today.

[Roy]

Craig Breen will test a Mini Country man WRC today

http://twitter.com/#!/Craig_Breen/status/25261139772317696

[GallardoGT]

Btw, what sort of gear lever has the new WRC car. I presume again one big paddle shifter on the right behind the wheel.

Are there already some pictures of the new cockpits around?

[Sulland]

Btw, what sort of gear lever has the new WRC car. I presume again one big paddle shifter on the right behind the wheel.

Are there already some pictures of the new cockpits around?

Paddle shift is not allowed in 2011, maybe they come back later, if the teams can agree on one comon box.

[RICARDO75]

Btw, what sort of gear lever has the new WRC car. I presume again one big paddle shifter on the right behind the wheel.

Are there already some pictures of the new cockpits around?

No padle shift

http://autoten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Mini-Countryman-WRC-concept-4.jpg

[GallardoGT]

Wow, that will be a big BIG challenge for all those wrc stardrivers. Don't tell me that they have to use the clutch too ;)

[Rallyper]

No padle shift

http://autoten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Mini-Countryman-WRC-concept-4.jpg

Is this the new Mini WRC 1,6T?

In that case they do not follow the safety roll cage mount regulations taken by FIA Safety Academy. Look at the door-bars. One is full lengt. Two are welded in the full lenght bar.

Ford and Citroen use two full lenght hooked bars which are welded together in the middle.

[6789]

They don't need the clutch for changing gears but?

[GigiGalliNo1]

So it's Automatic?! :D

[logic]

Is this the new Mini WRC 1,6T?

In that case they do not follow the safety roll cage mount regulations taken by FIA Safety Academy. Look at the door-bars. One is full lengt. Two are welded in the full lenght bar.

Ford and Citroen use two full lenght hooked bars which are welded together in the middle.

That is only a show car .

[noel157]

Is this the new Mini WRC 1,6T?

In that case they do not follow the safety roll cage mount regulations taken by FIA Safety Academy. Look at the door-bars. One is full lengt. Two are welded in the full lenght bar.

Ford and Citroen use two full lenght hooked bars which are welded together in the middle.

That's just a show car mock-up, not the real WRC car. I imagine Prodrive know what they are doing.

Edit- beaten to it by Logic.

[RICARDO75]

Is this the new Mini WRC 1,6T?

In that case they do not follow the safety roll cage mount regulations taken by FIA Safety Academy. Look at the door-bars. One is full lengt. Two are welded in the full lenght bar.

Ford and Citroen use two full lenght hooked bars which are welded together in the middle.

It's a show car.
GallardoGT asked for a photo to see if the gear sistem was with padle shift.
It was the only one that I have found ;)

[Rallyper]

OK. Seems a bit sloppy though. :D

[Juha_Koo]

Wow, that will be a big BIG challenge for all those wrc stardrivers.

This is always very funny stuff. :D To read how people think that WRC drivers can only drive fast with top-notch cars. They aren't best in the world by chance. Once you are able to reach the certain level in driving skill, everything else except you and your driving skill are meaningless. Loeb can do incredible things in standard road-going C4 which can be found in thousands of garages. I've seen a video of him playing with standard C4 somewhere.

Jari-Matti drives rallies with historic cars (Escort Mk2 BDA, Sunbeam Avenger, etc) in which any kind of driver aids are nonexistant. Somehow he wins those rallies always by margin of minutes. Mikko also has many historic cars which he drives just for fun. Doesn't really matter what the car is as long as the driver is called Driver with a capital D. :)


Is this the new Mini WRC 1,6T?

In that case they do not follow the safety roll cage mount regulations taken by FIA Safety Academy. Look at the door-bars. One is full lengt. Two are welded in the full lenght bar.

Ford and Citroen use two full lenght hooked bars which are welded together in the middle.

Even though I presume that this is a show car, I wouldn't be too surprised if Prodrive would use some roll cage desings from the 90s. Whatever car they have built, the rollcages look always very dull. Phil Mills almost lost his life because of the funny roof roll cage desing in Germany. Subarus were the only modern rally cars which I know that had only one diagonal roof tube in 2000s. Also the tube diameter was smaller than Ford/Citroen/etc. In that rather harmless, even though high-speed, crash in Japan, Atkinson's Subaru's roll cage weldings failed terribly. Stephane Prevot was happy to be alive... Then came the new Impreza and the ancient door cage desings. .

I'm not an engineer but I do consider myself having atleast some vision towards rally safety.

[JRodrigues]

Even though I presume that this is a show car, I wouldn't be too surprised if Prodrive would use some roll cage desings from the 90s. Whatever car they have built, the rollcages look always very dull. Phil Mills almost lost his life because of the funny roof roll cage desing in Germany. Subarus were the only modern rally cars which I know that had only one diagonal roof tube in 2000s. Also the tube diameter was smaller than Ford/Citroen/etc. In that rather harmless, even though high-speed, crash in Japan, Atkinson's Subaru's roll cage weldings failed terribly. Stephane Prevot was happy to be alive... Then came the new Impreza and the ancient door cage desings. .

I'm not an engineer but I do consider myself having atleast some vision towards rally safety.

Well... It seems to me that Subaru never had a driver/co-driver with a serious injury, unlike Ford that had their drivers with some serious injuries: McRae, Galli, the unfortunate Michael PArk (RIP)...

[MJW]

Michael was in a 307. Also its a testimony as to how well the Subaru's safety that it stood up to that impact with a hinkelstein without any seroius injury to the crew.

[Rallyper]

Well... It seems to me that Subaru never had a driver/co-driver with a serious injury, unlike Ford that had their drivers with some serious injuries: McRae, Galli, the unfortunate Michael PArk (RIP)...

Beef was killed in a 307.

[JRodrigues]

Beef was killed in a 307.

Sorry for the incorrection. Although Latvala's crash in Portugal showed how the Focus has improved.

[Juha_Koo]

Well... It seems to me that Subaru never had a driver/co-driver with a serious injury, unlike Ford that had their drivers with some serious injuries: McRae, Galli, the unfortunate Michael PArk (RIP)...

Are you serious?

Rollcage isn't a magic tool that can twist and bend the laws of physics. All those Ford accidents (and Park in Peugeot btw.) were crashes where the level of speed was high and the area to which all forces were dissipated was very small. Adding the fact, that impacts were side or roof orientated.

I think that the best testimony of Ford's rollcages being actually robust are the Galli incident in Germany and Mikko's semi-crash in GB in 2006. Galli had a fifth gear (165+kph) side orientated crash to solid objects and the only injury was? A broken femur! :eek: That's one helluva achievement! Ofcourse the "200 mm rule" also helped in the situation. Mikko hit a big stone sideways with speed of about 100 kph. The "funny" thing about the crash was that Mikko wasn't hurt at all - but then again Jarmo, who was sitting on the opposite side of the impact suffered a rib fracture. Because of the car body being so tough.

A very special case was Duval's off in Japan back in 2008. Patrick Pivato received life-threatening injuries but luckily survived. The surviving is solely because of a special rigid-steel beam which was incorporated to Focus' hemline (<- don't know the right autotechical word, called "helma" in Finnish). There's an article somewhere about this where Loriaux tells about it but I can't find it now...

I also don't understand what are these "serious injuries" you are talking about... Since when has a standard bone fracture been categorized as a serious injury? They are not inherently dangerous but they can lead to more severe injuries like in case of rib fracture to a pneumothorax or severe internal bleeding due to broken bone damaging internal organs.

The loss of Beef was a terrible tragedy but as far as I know, there wasn't involved anykind of rollcage failure. It did excatly what it was supposed to do - only the high speed, mass and the small force dissipating area were too strong opponents to the 307. What I have heard, the injuries leading to the terrible loss were head/neurological/neck orientated and there's very little what a rollcage can do against those kind of injuries - sadly. :(

[RICARDO75]

Well... It seems to me that Subaru never had a driver/co-driver with a serious injury, unlike Ford that had their drivers with some serious injuries: McRae, Galli, the unfortunate Michael PArk (RIP)...

"Possum" Bourne co-driver.

Bourne also died on a Subaru Forester on a road accident

[Juha_Koo]

"Possum" Bourne co-driver.

Rodger Freeth. He wasn't any average Joe, held a Ph.D. in (astro)physics and was a distinguished academic. AFAIK he desinged and built some rather crazy cars while studying in the university.

[cali]

Markko had a very nasty off in Argentina driving Ford (speed 170-180 kmh), destroyed the car completely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2vOv63oNL4&has_verified=1

[JRodrigues]

Markko had a very nasty off in Argentina driving Ford (speed 170-180 kmh), destroyed the car completely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2vOv63oNL4&has_verified=1

And Solberg the destroyed the Subaru in Germany.. Makinen in Argentina.. McRae's multiple crashes both in Legacy and Impreza..

[Hartusvuori]

Markko had a very nasty off in Argentina driving Ford (speed 170-180 kmh), destroyed the car completely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2vOv63oNL4&has_verified=1

Not completely... We saw that car in NORF 2010 driven by Jouni Arolainen. It've also been in use by Andreas Mikkelsen.

http://www.jouniarolainen.com/jone/english/kalusto08.htm

[GINE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEtMi9RrFAE

David Richards talks about mini and reveals fourth manufacturer ( skoda) in wrc

[RS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEtMi9RrFAE

David Richards talks about mini and reveals fourth manufacturer ( skoda) in wrc

He says VW (and not Skoda) but we will see..

[GINE]

He says VW (and not Skoda) but we will see..

YOU ARE RIGHT. IWAS IN A NOISY PLACE AND THOUGH HE SAID UNDER SKODA BRAND. BUT ACTUALLY SAID VW RATHER THAN SKODA. EITHER WAY, GREAT NEWS!!!!

[JRodrigues]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEtMi9RrFAE

David Richards talks about mini and reveals fourth manufacturer ( skoda) in wrc

Italians that bought 3 cars! Is it Ralliart with one car for Armindo?! :D

[Roy]

Wilson not sure for full 2011 season

http://www.wrc.com/news/wilson-waiting-on-full-wrc-programme/?fid=14033

[Zeakiwi]

"Possum" Bourne co-driver.

Bourne also died on a Subaru Forester on a road accident

the Subaru Legacy in the 'Freeth' accident had the seat belts not attached to the roll cage.

Was the Lovell / Freeman Subaru Impreza a Prodrive or Vermont Sports car constructed machine ?

[OldF]

When I listened to the interview of DR and when he was saying something like

“it’s the first time for a long time that people, private teams and drivers buying a Mini, will have an identical car compared to the car that Chris and Dani have…..”

Don’t knowing what the homologation regulations says about the ECU, but reading the specific regulations I interpret this as there can be only one mapping software for the ECU, which means the same mapping software must be used in every car.

Knowing that the ECU has several different modes (road mode, safety mode, very slow stage, slow stage etc.) there could be for some reason some buttons not working at the control panel in the car but I don’t think that would be possible in practice.

Maybe it’s the first time for a long time works drivers and privateers are driving equal cars with no down tuning by mapping. At least let’s hope so.

From Article 255A Specific Regulations for Super 2000 (Rallies) / WRC

5.1 Engine
e) Engine electronic control system
Any electronic driving aid system is prohibited (ABS / ASR / EPS…).
Only the homologated electronic control unit (ECU), actuators, and data acquisition systems may be used. The homologated ECU and engine control software must be used.

[PLuto]

Dont believe it. Maybe in first year, when all cars will be serviced by manufacturer teams...

[dimviii]

Dont believe it. Maybe in first year, when all cars will be serviced by manufacturer teams...

impossible to control the softwear inside ss.

[sollitt]

Rodger Freeth. He wasn't any average Joe, held a Ph.D. in (astro)physics and was a distinguished academic. AFAIK he desinged and built some rather crazy cars while studying in the university.

Not to mention an internationally renowned champion motorcycle racer. Rodger was one out of the box.

[MJW]

the Subaru Legacy in the 'Freeth' accident had the seat belts not attached to the roll cage.

Was the Lovell / Freeman Subaru Impreza a Prodrive or Vermont Sports car constructed machine ?
True, after Rodger's death it became more the norm to attach harnesses to the cage. When Rodger was killed the mounting point was at the floor, like in the old days. His death was the catalyst to re-locating harness mounting points..
Marl Lovell and Roger Freeman would possibly have lived if they had HANS devices.

[bubbaontour]

I'm not an engineer

You not wrong there!

I virtually never never post on here for profesonal reasons but i can't hold my tounge on this one...

I built and striped most of the smashed up cars your slagging off here including the germany car Tommys argentina car, all of Chris's numurous cars and you are talking total b****ks

[MJW]

You not wrong there!

I virtually never never post on here for profesonal reasons but i can't hold my tounge on this one...

I built and striped most of the smashed up cars your slagging off here including the germany car Tommys argentina car, all of Chris's numurous cars and you are talking total b****ks
Good on ya Bubba!!! well said. Prodrive Ralliart and Hyundai cars were WELL put together.

[OldF]

impossible to control the softwear inside ss.

The software (operating system) controls the operation of the ECU, i.e. in which situations depending on the inputs what data is output to the controlled devices (fuel injectors, ignition timing etc.). When there’s a set of mode options to choose from, the mode can be changed during the stage. All these modes (modes = memory data blocks) options have been homologated.

The software in an ECU is in a permanent flash/ROM memory (comparable to the hard disk of a PC) and is loaded into the RAM memory during start up.

In the ECU are all the software and necessary data (mapping) needed. If all of these bytes of data are homologated, it’s no problem reading it and compares it with the homologated ones. All the checking program has to do is to scan true the memory addresses and compare the data in every memory address to the homologated ones.

[Juha_Koo]

You not wrong there!

I virtually never never post on here for profesonal reasons but i can't hold my tounge on this one...

I built and striped most of the smashed up cars your slagging off here including the germany car Tommys argentina car, all of Chris's numurous cars and you are talking total b****ks

And I don't normally respond to messages that are purely based on ad hominem circumstantiae but I couldn't hold my fingers on this one. :)

In what way I'm talking "total b****ks"? Subarus had only one diagonal roof tube in 2005. That's a fact. No other WRC car in 2005 had one diagonal roof tube. I admit, I was a bit harsh in my words, but the facts were correct. Also the 2008 Impreza didn't have "modern" two V-shaped tubes in the door - it had one diagonal tube to which two additional diagonal tubes were attached and the connection area was reinforced with steel plate construction.

I also may ask - why wasn't there ANY exterior photos or videos made available from Atkinson's car after the 2007 crash in Japan? With hard work I was able to obtain four bad-quality photos taken with a cameraphone by a marshall.

First and foremost; I'm not alone with my observations. I don't have any intentions to bash certain persons and/or companies. Just saying out loud my sightings an/or things which have been told to me.

[dimviii]

The software (operating system) controls the operation of the ECU, i.e. in which situations depending on the inputs what data is output to the controlled devices (fuel injectors, ignition timing etc.). When there’s a set of mode options to choose from, the mode can be changed during the stage. All these modes (modes = memory data blocks) options have been homologated.

The software in an ECU is in a permanent flash/ROM memory (comparable to the hard disk of a PC) and is loaded into the RAM memory during start up.

In the ECU are all the software and necessary data (mapping) needed. If all of these bytes of data are homologated, it’s no problem reading it and compares it with the homologated ones. All the checking program has to do is to scan true the memory addresses and compare the data in every memory address to the homologated ones.

I know all these mate but.......you cant identify if a map is different(ie.allow more boost,more timing etc) inside a rom. Million maps inside,and is something that can t measure like a wishbone,or a brake rotor.It is easy to cheat especially for a works team.Different maps can change even without touching the car.

[OldF]

I know all these mate but.......you cant identify if a map is different(ie.allow more boost,more timing etc) inside a rom. Million maps inside,and is something that can t measure like a wishbone,or a brake rotor.It is easy to cheat especially for a works team.Different maps can change even without touching the car.

The data in a ROM (read only memory) memory can’t be changed; it’s permanently there forever (or at least for the lifetime of the ROM memory). It’s no matter if there’s million or billion bytes of data, all the data can be compared to a “homologated” one.

But as I said in my first post on this issue, I don’t know how the homologation procedure works regarding the ECU but concerning the S2000 cars that have the rev limiter in the ECU (and also the 2011 WRC cars have an absolute intake manifold pressure control), and somehow that can be controlled.

The problem is of course that there can be a mapping that not allow full boost (below 2,5 bar absolute) for the privateers but if the only boost control that’s allowed is the same for both works team and privateers, isn’t should be a problem.

[bretddog]

Modern ECUs are much more advanced than this; use flash memory, cpu's and dynamic parameters that is not possible just with ROM. I see nothing in the regulations that suggest that one car shall have equal settings to another. If this was the case it would be explicitly noted. It's just the software logic and hence use of parameters/sensor input that seems to be the target of the homologation. Which gives them ability to control what type of sensors are allowed to be used, and what they control. This is the central part of article 5.1.e, and makes perfect logical sense. It's the only way they can enforce those rules.

In such case the rpm limit and boost should be fixed parameters. And the software logic should not permit those to be exceeded. However that doesn't mean though that you can't have other parameters/settings that can be tuned. It doesn't make sense as it would be too technically limiting, and nothing either indicates such to be the case. So to me it looks clear that every car can be set up differently.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Rodger Freeth. He wasn't any average Joe, held a Ph.D. in (astro)physics and was a distinguished academic. AFAIK he desinged and built some rather crazy cars while studying in the university.

He also developed the pace note system of identifying corners by the steering angle required

[alleskids]

PSA is develloping a 1.6T engine to fit also in the Peugoet 207 S2000? I read on different sites the news of Peugeot homologatong in 2011 a 1.6T version of the Peugoet 207 S2000/207 SP.
ORECA is the developper of Skoda's 1.6T engine?

[Juha_Koo]

He also developed the pace note system of identifying corners by the steering angle required

Wow, I didn't know this... Do you have any additional information about the system? Sounds a bit like Loeb's special system.

[Mirek]

PSA is develloping a 1.6T engine to fit also in the Peugoet 207 S2000? I read on different sites the news of Peugeot homologatong in 2011 a 1.6T version of the Peugoet 207 S2000/207 SP.
ORECA is the developper of Skoda's 1.6T engine?

I don't think that we'll see 1.6T 207.

[OldF]

Modern ECUs are much more advanced than this; use flash memory, cpu's and dynamic parameters that is not possible just with ROM. I see nothing in the regulations that suggest that one car shall have equal settings to another. If this was the case it would be explicitly noted. It's just the software logic and hence use of parameters/sensor input that seems to be the target of the homologation. Which gives them ability to control what type of sensors are allowed to be used, and what they control. This is the central part of article 5.1.e, and makes perfect logical sense. It's the only way they can enforce those rules.

In such case the rpm limit and boost should be fixed parameters. And the software logic should not permit those to be exceeded. However that doesn't mean though that you can't have other parameters/settings that can be tuned. It doesn't make sense as it would be too technically limiting, and nothing either indicates such to be the case. So to me it looks clear that every car can be set up differently.
Wow, new look of the best forum in the world.

CPU’s has been used for decades already. Intel introduced their first CPU (4004, 4 bit processor) in 1971 and few years later the 8008 (8 bit processor).

Dynamic parameters yes but there’s have to be a program to change these parameters and that should be able to homologated i.e. what is the program allowed to do.

[FabiaFan]

Wow, new look of the best forum in the world.


But not the best look ... I cannot get used to it and it's already day two...
It is really less pleasant to read the monitor, it's too light!! :-(((

[darkstar]

i also dont like it yet. but i think we´ll get used to it soon.

[alleskids]

i mis the oppertunity to skip easily form world rally to IRC. It is more complicated with the new forum :(

[pettersolberg29]

i mis the oppertunity to skip easily form world rally to IRC. It is more complicated with the new forum :(

How come? Just below the page numbers there is a little 'quick navigation' menu which leads to every subforum on here.

[HaCo]

I prefer username and avatar left from the post instead of above it. You loose way to much scrollspace.

[alleskids]

I had read an article, that Citroen will have difficulties getting the fith DS3 WRcar available for Rally Sardinia. I can't dfind it anymore, only a French article. Has someone a link to the Englisch version of the article? thanks

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8005/equipeds3.jpg

[Barreis]

Don't know what happened but new forum design looks terrible..

[FabiaFan]

Don't know what happened but new forum design looks terrible..

+1

[Francis44]

I dont think it looks terrible, most users were used to the old setup and it might take a while before we get used to this.

[PuddleJumper]

It's a work in progress. Revised colour schemes will be set up once everything else is working as we would like. The priority was getting the whole forum moved to a new server. If you wish to voice an opinion on how the forum looks, or how you would like it to look, please visit the Forum Feedback section and post there. There is already a discussion in progress.

[pino]

I dont think it looks terrible, most users were used to the old setup and it might take a while before we get used to this.

Don't get used to it because we will probably change it again soon ;)

[Mitch555]

Wow, I didn't know this... Do you have any additional information about the system? Sounds a bit like Loeb's special system.

From what I have read from a few sources, the noting system is derived from the angle of the steering wheel in the corner. Drivers which use this system, have a disk of some material on their steering wheel with different angles marked on it, which are then graded (1-6, 1-10 etc.). The corner grade is the number that appears at the top of the steering wheel when the wheel has been turned. So by moving the wheel 10 degrees, you might get a 10 right/left, moving it 20 degrees you get a 9 right/left etc. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more to it than that though!

[Rally Hokkaido]

Wow, I didn't know this... Do you have any additional information about the system? Sounds a bit like Loeb's special system.

Mitch555 has explained it quite well. In my experience the numbers are usually on pieces of tape stuck on the recce car's steering wheel so they can be adjusted to what the driver deems to be a '4 Right', etc. When satisfied with the number positioning the crew then do their first pass of the stages with the driver calling out the number at the top of the wheel as he's turning into the corner. I imagine it took a bit of practice before Rog and Possum were confident enough to use this pace note system in a rally. It now seems to be in common usage, at least in the Asia-Pacific region.

[Karukera]

I had read an article, that Citroen will have difficulties getting the fith DS3 WRcar available for Rally Sardinia. I can't dfind it anymore, only a French article. Has someone a link to the Englisch version of the article? thanks

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8005/equipeds3.jpg

From what i can understand from your article, Quesnel explains to the journalist (probably asking why there are 8 Fiestas in Sweden and only 4 DS3) that they want to be world champion and don't race with MSport as to who will deliver more cars. The meaning is rather to tell the differences between them and a customer's outfit, not a criticism. Quesnel says they have good relationships with both KR and PS, the meaning can be interpreted as friendly relationships.

Again the journalist insists on the fact that Citroën was asked to build cars for customers. Van Merksteijn who was set to drive 10 rallies accepted a compromise and let Solberg drive (Van M's car) in Sweden (Quesnel) and probably later in the season because the 5th DS3 won't be ready before Sardinia. (journalist).

Then Quesnel says there will no longer be a Junior team, (no youngster), PS and KR will run their own teams. Season's program for both isn't yet determined (date of the article).
It's all a matter of last minute deals, lots of details to be arranged due to budget issues. Customers will have tests during the season but will run their own teams, engineers and mechanics with official support from Citroën. Cars are the full property of Citroën and will be overhauled at the factory between rallies (Quesnel).

[bluuford]

From what i can understand from your article, Quesnel explains to the journalist (probably asking why there are 8 Fiestas in Sweden and only 4 DS3) that they want to be world champion and don't race with MSport as to who will deliver more cars. The meaning is rather to tell the differences between them and a customer's outfit, not a criticism. Quesnel says they have good relationships with both KR and PS, the meaning can be interpreted as friendly relationships.

Again the journalist insists on the fact that Citroën was asked to build cars for customers. Van Merksteijn who was set to drive 10 rallies accepted a compromise and let Solberg drive (Van M's car) in Sweden (Quesnel) and probably later in the season because the 5th DS3 won't be ready before Sardinia. (journalist).

Then Quesnel says there will no longer be a Junior team, (no youngster), PS and KR will run their own teams. Season's program for both isn't yet determined (date of the article).
It's all a matter of last minute deals, lots of details to be arranged due to budget issues. Customers will have tests during the season but will run their own teams, engineers and mechanics with official support from Citroën. Cars are the full property of Citroën and will be overhauled at the factory between rallies (Quesnel).

So, practically he says that they are not interested in any privateers. Their limit is PS and KR. So, I assume they do not have proper maintenance crew as well to service the car properly (well, they didn't want to let people outside the team close to the car). So, If I would be PVMjr I would change to Mini or Fiesta. At least you are king as the clients normally are. Citroens as a multiple world champions can afford such kind of arrogance. Two other teams depend much on clients and must take into account their wishes.

[AndyRAC]

Citroen are a well funded proper factory team - they're not dependent on selling customer cars to make money. Whereas Ford/M-Sport and Prodrive/BMW-Mini are dependent on customers for the continuation of their programmes. One wins lots of championships, the other sells lots of cars and makes money.
Maybe things might change if and when VW join - they have far more money and resources than Citroen.

[Motorsportfun]

Yeah, VW budget for Dakar 2011 was about 80m euros... =)

[Bobcat]

So, practically he says that they are not interested in any privateers.

They're not dependent on selling customer cars to make money.
This isn't true. Firstly, their R2 and R3 cars. Secondly, their WRC customers with strong budgets.


In fact, Citroen not on time with their WRC development and their WRC/R3 production. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/za-malo-czasu-na-testy,33587

[dimviii]

This isn't true. Firstly, their R2 and R3 cars. Secondly, their WRC customers with strong budgets.

Dont be confused.Citroen/Peugeot with r2-r3 cars make much more money than from ford with wrc clients.Just count how many r2-r3 exist in France and Italy only.





In fact, Citroen not on time with their WRC development and their WRC/R3 production. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/za-malo-czasu-na-testy,33587

In fact who is going to be 2011 champion haven t got to do something with your link.

ps why you hate so much the frogs?

[Pinto]

You cant knock Citroen for looking after Kimmi and Peter after all peter has been a customer of theres for two years and kimi for one,doesnt every one know in business you look after your best and longest customers first.

[Daniel]

ps why you hate so much the frogs?
Because he obviously works for Ford.

[Bobcat]

Because he obviously works for Ford. Yeah, obviously as French AUTOhebdo: http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/article-26-1-5766/281210-citroen-en-retard-avec-ses-essais

[Daniel]

Yeah, obviously as French AUTOhebdo: http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/article-26-1-5766/281210-citroen-en-retard-avec-ses-essais

Huh?

[6789]

Yeah, obviously as French AUTOhebdo: http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/article-26-1-5766/281210-citroen-en-retard-avec-ses-essais

You can't seriously be trying to say that Citroen are under prepared compared to Ford? At least Matt Wilson wasn't their test driver for some period..

[Daniel]

You can't seriously be trying to say that Citroen are under prepared compared to Ford? At least Matt Wilson wasn't their test driver for some period..

If you were am M-Sport employee it's what you'd want to believe :)

[Karukera]

It's not only Auto Hebdo or Sven Smeets. Persistent and solid rumours coming from Citroën Racing stating the DS3 WRC isn't yet up to their "standards", whatever it means.

[Sulland]

Yeah, VW budget for Dakar 2011 was about 80m euros... =)

The return for VW for those euros, can not be that high. Their PR in WRC would be dramatically much higher !

[René]

About Citroen,
The methods of communication pre-event by manufacturer impose to remain careful and to wait at the very least for the verdict after the Swedish rally which will be more reliable than any strategical speech of circumstance.

Give a horse to the one who says the truth, it will need it to run away. (Persian Proverb)

[sindroms]

WRC in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland in 2013?
http://translate.google.lv/translate?hl=lv&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fuudised.err.ee%2Findex.php%3F062228 48

[Allar]

Looks interesting idea, but very expensive for privateer's. Allso quite hard for drivers and car's. I'm not worried about driver's, but i think car's need special preapration's for this event and car price's will be high in cloud's. Makeing pacenotes will take about a week for that.
i would prefer Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland takeing turn's of organizeing rally's.

[bluuford]

Well. This idea is heavily supported by Jean Todt as well. It means completely different event in WRC. He said that all events should not be the same and this is the first step. Most of the organizers have told that to increase the stage distance is very expensive. But if you share it between 4 countries then it is not so expensive and its commercial value is enormous compared to the rally that takes place only in one country.

This idea is that the stage distance will be something like 600-700km, it lasts at least four days. Each day, different country. Starting from Poland and ending in Estonia or vice versa. It should take place close to the NORF, so it is like continuous trip from south to north. Rally totals will be something like 2500km. Every day new service. There is a possibility that rallycars can be carried from one location to the other but the preferred version is they drive it their own.
In addition to the fact that you can have new spectators each day and new car market, you have the possibility to choose the best stages for each day.

So, that means 8 days in total. 3 days for recce, one day for shake and etc 4 days full of stages. Starting from Sunday and ending on Sunday:-)

[Bobcat]

http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/renault_considers_wrc/

[br21]

FIA have choosen candidates for Young Driver Excellence Academy.
http://www.fiainstitute.com/news/Pages/article-84.aspx
5 rally drivers on the list: Abbring, Gould, Kaur, Mikkelsen, Taylor.

[FabiaFan]

5 rally drivers on the list: Abbring, Gould, Kaur, Mikkelsen, Taylor.

strange combination...

[6789]

iRally reports Sordo with Carlos Del Barrio in 2011. 3rd co driver in 12 months

[mm1]

I hear Tanak has signed a 5 year deal with m-sport.

[Raini]

I hear Tanak has signed a 5 year deal with m-sport.

http://www.motorstv.com/car/rally/wrc/21012011/tanak-given-five-year-m-sport-deal

[Salist]

New copilot for Sordo: Carlos Del Barrio
It is on its Facebook page that Dani Sordo advertisement: it changes copilot again. Following a financial dissension with Diego Vallejos, Dani Sordo will be copilot in 2011 per Carlos Del Barrio. The program of Spanish is tiny room in 2011 with a participation of the Mini WRC that starting from Sardinia, the remuneration of BMW must certainly be much less important than that of Citroen, of the conditions which could not make it possible the duet of 2010 to get along for 2011. Sordo had already separated from its copilot Marc Marti last August, it changes 6 months again later. Carlos Del Barrio was in particular seen at the sides of Xavier Pons in WRC in 2006 on board Xsara. Diego Vallejos becomes the copilot of Albert Llovera.

Source: http://wrc.is.free.fr/

[Julle69]

Oliver Quesnel confirmed today that Petter Solberg is going to drive all 13 WRC rallies this year. Kimi is doing ten rallies.

[Walach]

Perfect! :-)
Source?

[ProRally]

It was confirmed at the launch of the Citroën Racing season launch.... so directly from Mr Quesnel

[Walach]

Ok, thanks. All the best for Petter!

[alleskids]

Does this mean that PSWRT wil start the team championship in Sweden?

[alleskids]

I found this on Petter Solbergs site. Under the calender is written:

"It is awarded points for every World Cup round. The first 10 of the result list are World Cup points, which will join them for the rest of the season. It is not necessary to attend all the World Cup rounds. The one with the highest score after the last race is named as World Champion".

Wil there be a seperated teams championship, the World Cup, first 10 results count? Or is the Manufacturers championship , which is bull sh*t with only 2 manufacturers, renamed Wolrd Cup?

[pettersolberg29]

No - I believe it just means that the top 10 in each rally get points with the new 25-18-15 system.

[jbmarcus21]

Itinerary and program Rally Argentina is out http://planetemarcus.free.fr/argentine11.htm

[pettersolberg29]

Anyone know where/when this is from? http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=p.79326681144#!/photo.php?fbid=79326681144&set=t.752875394&pid=2535955&id=598531144

For those who can't view it, its a set of pictures of Marcus Gronholm and Ola Floene driving a Citroen C4. Surely they never tested together as Ola is Mikkelsen's co-driver, and surely Ford wouldn't let Marcus drive a C4. Weird.

[pettersolberg29]

Colin Clark said that its almost certain that Al-Attiyah and Solberg will drive for the official VW Scirocco team in the 2012 World Rally Championship. Seems very early to say this, but Petter is definately talking to Volkswagen at the moment so it may be true?

[Josti]

Anyone know where/when this is from? http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=p.79326681144#!/photo.php?fbid=79326681144&set=t.752875394&pid=2535955&id=598531144

For those who can't view it, its a set of pictures of Marcus Gronholm and Ola Floene driving a Citroen C4. Surely they never tested together as Ola is Mikkelsen's co-driver, and surely Ford wouldn't let Marcus drive a C4. Weird.

Well, if there are pictures (I can't see them), there's evidence that they did of course. Grönholm still had a contract with M-Sport throughout 2008 I think.



Colin Clark said that its almost certain that Al-Attiyah and Solberg will drive for the official VW Scirocco team in the 2012 World Rally Championship. Seems very early to say this, but Petter is definately talking to Volkswagen at the moment so it may be true?

Hmm, I don't think Al-Attiyah is the way to go. He's over 40 and frankly, despite a PWRC title, hasn't been that impressive in WRC imo. I know he won Dakar, but that was with a dominant car and little competition. Maybe in a 3rd driver role, but VW should really get Hänninen in that seat.

[6789]

I'd imagine Nasser as a 3rd driver as well. Some great news but, just have to download the podcast.

[alleskids]

Hmm, I don't think Al-Attiyah is the way to go. He's over 40 and frankly, despite a PWRC title, hasn't been that impressive in WRC imo. I know he won Dakar, but that was with a dominant car and little competition. Maybe in a 3rd driver role, but VW should really get Hänninen in that seat.

+1

[pettersolberg29]

They were saying on TotalRally that Hanninen should get the VW seat, but apparently Al-Attiyah is preferred for their first season. And as I say, Petter is currently in talks with VW too.

[AndyRAC]

I'm another to agree, Al-Attiyah would be a decent 3rd driver, but is nowhere near a top line driver. If VW are serious, then they want two top notch drivers. Solberg/ Hanninen would be a good pairing.

[jbmarcus21]

it was total rally postcast tonight not ?

[pettersolberg29]

it was total rally postcast tonight not ?

It was.

[jbmarcus21]

thanks ;)

[bluuford]

Hmm, I don't think Al-Attiyah is the way to go. He's over 40 and frankly, despite a PWRC title, hasn't been that impressive in WRC imo. I know he won Dakar, but that was with a dominant car and little competition. Maybe in a 3rd driver role, but VW should really get Hänninen in that seat.

Nasser is 40 exactly (+1 month). But he is more like a third driver indeed. Maybe some kind of Middle East deal is in the game? However, VW should have enough money to run their program and three drivers.

[N.O.T]

Solberg-Hanninen and Al-attyah keeping the team wealthy...sound like a good plan.

[GINE]

I would like to see Hanninen, Sordo, and Solberg in a three car team

[atsiotras79]

I would like to see Hanninen, Sordo, and Solberg in a three car team

I would like to see you with something good in Acropolis! :)

[Mitch555]

Makeing pacenotes will take about a week for that.
i would prefer Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland takeing turn's of organizeing rally's.
How about letting them drive off roadbook? Why should they pacenote for a marathon rally? It just takes up way too many resources to do. Keep the route a secret so there's no illegal recce, and let them go on the roadbook.

[mm1]

How about letting them drive off roadbook? Why should they pacenote for a marathon rally? It just takes up way too many resources to do. Keep the route a secret so there's no illegal recce, and let them go on the roadbook.

Are you serious, this is no Dakar.

[dimviii]

I would like to see you with something good in Acropolis! :)

+1 :D

[GINE]

Me too!!!!! :D :D
But still nothing set

[GINE]

I would like to see Hanninen, Sordo, and Solberg in a three car team

Some deeper thinking would be:

Solberg, hanninen and Sordo ( since Sainz will probably be in the team ) swapping places for point scoring, while mikkelsen does SWRC with skoda to gain experience.
And the year after they keep the best drivers in the first team and mikkelsen in the second team. But the future should be Hanninen - Mikkelsen for VW

[AP-Racing]

Novikov returned in WRC. Source here.

http://www.almrally.ru/english/info/4524/

I think that probably in the Ford Fiesta

Mikhail Lepekhov: "This decision was unexpected for me. Like a lightning bolt from the blue sky. I can't find another comparison. I understand Zhenya. Career and job are the main things in young man's life but one shouldn't miss opportunity to participate in the World Championship driving a WRC car. And I'm proud that I succeeded in persuading him and arranged some moments - in this year Evgeny will drive a WRC car under an intensive programme!"

[dimviii]

good news!!

[Juha_Koo]

Novikov returned in WRC. Source here.

http://www.almrally.ru/english/info/4524/

I think that probably in the Ford Fiesta

Mikhail Lepekhov: "This decision was unexpected for me. Like a lightning bolt from the blue sky. I can't find another comparison. I understand Zhenya. Career and job are the main things in young man's life but one shouldn't miss opportunity to participate in the World Championship driving a WRC car. And I'm proud that I succeeded in persuading him and arranged some moments - in this year Evgeny will drive a WRC car under an intensive programme!"

Now this is interesting and good news. :)

Just wondering who will codrive for him...

[J.Lindstroem]

NICE. Now i have someone to cheer for in the championship!!

[bluuford]

Now this is interesting and good news. :)

Just wondering who will co drive for him...

Maybe he drives alone :-P

Good news indeed. He has grown older and last year in Russian Championship it looked like he is mentally stronger as well. He will become 21 years old in this September, hopefully few more years of age also helps. Entry list for Mexico will be closed in a few days, so, we might expect something by Portugal at earliest.
This year in WRC looks better right now that last year looked in December :-P

[J.Lindstroem]

I cant describe how glad i am that Novikov is returning to the Wrc. He is what the sport needs. Raw talent, raw speed. I don't think we have seen anything like it for a long time. Again good news!

[N.O.T]

very good news about novikov....a guy with huge potential in my opinion if he manages to control his pace somehow.

[RS]

They were saying on TotalRally that Hanninen should get the VW seat, but apparently Al-Attiyah is preferred for their first season. And as I say, Petter is currently in talks with VW too.

If they prefer Al Attiyah to Hanninen then they are already making mistakes...

[Barreis]

He's far from the best drivers but let we see..

[J.Lindstroem]

very good news about novikov....a guy with huge potential in my opinion if he manages to control his pace somehow.

I think there is more than one reason to compare him with a certain Colin McRae. I rather have a fast and spectacular driver like Novikov or Latvala than a driver like Mikko who can say things like "lets settle for 2nd" already the first day.

[Mitch555]

Are you serious, this is no Dakar.
I am very serious! It may be no Dakar, but you can still rally without pacenotes. Australia does at least half of their rallies as roadbook, and RAC Rally in the UK had no pacenotes for many years. It's just an additional challenge they can have, and saves a lot of time and money with having no recce. Can be a new challenge, and we can see which driver is the most committed, read the road and drive to the conditions the best.

[Hartusvuori]

I definitely hope Novikov would manage to few jumps I'm planning to spectate at in NORF. And like said, he must've matured over the past year.

[ProRally]

If they prefer Al Attiyah to Hanninen then they are already making mistakes...

But the backers of Nasser Al Attiyah owns at least already 20% of VW..... and getting more shares.... so Nasser will be there and they can find a extra driver who is younger

[Juha_Koo]

I am very serious! It may be no Dakar, but you can still rally without pacenotes. Australia does at least half of their rallies as roadbook, and RAC Rally in the UK had no pacenotes for many years. It's just an additional challenge they can have, and saves a lot of time and money with having no recce. Can be a new challenge, and we can see which driver is the most committed, read the road and drive to the conditions the best.

Being Finn, I understand that rallying is possible without pacenotes but I've always seen that pacenotes are a inseparable part of world rallying.

Modern drivers are familiar with long recce days, everytime there's a new rally/new stages they do over 12-hour days.

[RICARDO75]

I am very serious! It may be no Dakar, but you can still rally without pacenotes. Australia does at least half of their rallies as roadbook, and RAC Rally in the UK had no pacenotes for many years. It's just an additional challenge they can have, and saves a lot of time and money with having no recce. Can be a new challenge, and we can see which driver is the most committed, read the road and drive to the conditions the best.

I don't agree with you.
I had some experience in both ways in very small amateur events but, I can assure you that with only roadbook is very dangerous.
There's always a rock or ditch on a corner that isn't on roadbook, or bumps, jumps, if a corner is long, short.
With pacenotes you can put everything to help on driving but it is also much safer.

[bluuford]

Being Finn, I understand that rallying is possible without pacenotes but I've always seen that pacenotes are a inseparable part of world rallying.

Modern drivers are familiar with long recce days, everytime there's a new rally/new stages they do over 12-hour days.

Well Todt-s idea was that rallying should not be a work from 9 to 17. And every event must have its own face. It looks pretty different to all other events. Imagine recce day from 8 in the morning until 23 in the evening, sounds like my normal working day on the fieldwork season ;-) This is very nice step to make something different, very different and brings back more the endurance side of the sport!

[RS]

But the backers of Nasser Al Attiyah owns at least already 20% of VW..... and getting more shares.... so Nasser will be there and they can find a extra driver who is younger

He would certainly be a better third driver than the one Ford have. I was sure Juho was being groomed for a VW seat though, maybe Malcolm would like to have him if one of his current two Finns don't perform this year.

[pettersolberg29]

Hanninen isn't being groomed by VW at all - the opposite if anything. They are trying to force him out of Skoda so Kopecky can win the IRC, but that won't happen, while another manufacturer is very interested in Juho for 2012 and the future. Skoda/VW are resting their hopes on Petter and another young Norwegian. Al-Attiyah would be a sufficent driver for the first year of development I think.

[rp]

Hanninen isn't being groomed by VW at all - the opposite if anything. They are trying to force him out of Skoda so Kopecky can win the IRC, but that won't happen, while another manufacturer is very interested in Juho for 2012 and the future. Skoda/VW are resting their hopes on Petter and another young Norwegian. Al-Attiyah would be a sufficent driver for the first year of development I think.

We will see, but Juho has already during the last year showed what he is able to do... And there is no doubt that he is ready for the fight with the big boys. There is no sense for Skoda to send him to drive S-WRC unless there is a plan. During this year he and the BRR Skoda collect the information of the WRC events and this data will be the base of the VW´s WRC effort. Their planned Word Rally Car must be based to Polo and it will be rather easy to modify current Fabia Super 2000 to be this VW`s World Rally Car.

They can have some talks with Petter and Andreas is coming, but it will take many years before Mikkelsen is able to beat WRC top drivers. Monte Carlo showed that he has still much to learn and during this year in the IRC series he is able to develop as a driver. We can not know yet what his ultimate level will be, but if he is able to achieve that level he can be VW´s works driver with Hänninen and Al Attiyah...

[Mirek]

Hanninen isn't being groomed by VW at all - the opposite if anything. They are trying to force him out of Skoda so Kopecky can win the IRC, but that won't happen, while another manufacturer is very interested in Juho for 2012 and the future. Skoda/VW are resting their hopes on Petter and another young Norwegian. Al-Attiyah would be a sufficent driver for the first year of development I think.

I would not exaggerate so much. Juho always wanted to go back to WRC and after he took the title in IRC, he has nothing more to prove there. For sure it suits Mr. Kopecký sen. to have Juho outside IRC as Jan will be more visible and have more chances to win the title (in my opinion it won't happen anyway) but I don't think that it's the main reason for Juho in SWRC. For sure people in Škoda know that THE DRIVER is Juho. Now we just have to wait for the future. 1.6T prototype already exists and so far it has had Fabia bodyshell...

[WRC1]

We will see, but Juho has already during the last year showed what he is able to do... And there is no doubt that he is ready for the fight with the big boys. There is no sense for Skoda to send him to drive S-WRC unless there is a plan. During this year he and the BRR Skoda collect the information of the WRC events and this data will be the base of the VW´s WRC effort. Their planned Word Rally Car must be based to Polo and it will be rather easy to modify current Fabia Super 2000 to be this VW`s World Rally Car.

They can have some talks with Petter and Andreas is coming, but it will take many years before Mikkelsen is able to beat WRC top drivers. Monte Carlo showed that he has still much to learn and during this year in the IRC series he is able to develop as a driver. We can not know yet what his ultimate level will be, but if he is able to achieve that level he can be VW´s works driver with Hänninen and Al Attiyah...

+1!!!

[pettersolberg29]

I would not exaggerate so much. Juho always wanted to go back to WRC and after he took the title in IRC, he has nothing more to prove there. For sure it suits Mr. Kopecký sen. to have Juho outside IRC as Jan will be more visible and have more chances to win the title (in my opinion it won't happen anyway) but I don't think that it's the main reason for Juho in SWRC. For sure people in Škoda know that THE DRIVER is Juho. Now we just have to wait for the future. 1.6T prototype already exists and so far it has had Fabia bodyshell...

Fair enough - I'm sure you know more than me about the internal politics of Skoda! However the Scirocco is also being developed, and surely the VAG group wouldn't allow a Fabia 1.6T WRC to fight against a Scirocco 1.6T WRC would they?
And lets make it clear that I agree that Juho is easily good enough to be a WRC driver, however from what I've been told and what Colin Clark said, Juho is wanted more by another manufacturer than he is by Skoda/VW.

[J.Lindstroem]

I suppose that would be Ford then. Cant see Citroen being interested in anything else than a frenchman.. =)

[Tomi]

however from what I've been told and what Colin Clark said, Juho is wanted more by another manufacturer than he is by Skoda/VW.

Lol what have you been told, what team? and who is colin clark?

[rp]

I suppose that would be Ford then. Cant see Citroen being interested in anything else than a frenchman.. =)

Ford/M-Sport have already Ott Tänak and he has a five year plan. Hirvonen is good enough second driver and Latvala will lead the team, so I doubt that Hänninen or Ford are interested each others. But maybe some other manufacturer is coming...

[Tomi]

I suppose that would be Ford then. Cant see Citroen being interested in anything else than a frenchman.. =)

Dont belive everything you read, why would Skoda skip the only one who can drive a rallycar in their team?

[MJW]

Too soon to speculate what happens in 2012 before 2011 starts. Who knows maybe if Loeb is not comfortable in Citroen this year, he and the Red Bull sponsorship maybe VW bound. If VW come in what better way of short circuiting their learning curve than offering big money to Loeb and buy his knowledge and experience? Maybe Loeb wont feel so comfortable in "his team" this year and a big top up to the retirement fund by signing a two year VW deal could be in the offing.
Whoever else is at VW I think Hanninen will be there.

[pettersolberg29]

Lol what have you been told, what team? and who is colin clark?


Dont belive everything you read, why would Skoda skip the only one who can drive a rallycar in their team?

I'm not forcing you to believe me - it's up to you. And Colin Clark is probably the most famous rally journalist in the world - does stage end reports for WRR and does TotalRally and occasionally writes in Motorsport News. I think he knows his stuff.
And you are obviously just giving us some bait to bite onto - Juho is a good driver, but Mikkelsen and Kopecky aren't novices and they can both handle a rallycar. Skoda would be foolish to pass over Juho, but then again Ford would be foolish to pass over Petter but it happened anyway. Politics are a bigger part of motorsport than most like to think.

[bluuford]

Yes, Juho has proved that he can fight only against himself in IRC. In MC he also proved that when the conditions are stable, then there is no match for him. Like I said at the end of last year, the only match for him in IRC was Meeke. Meeke also left to WRC and I cannot see anyone as fast and STABLE as Juho in IRC.

[Tomi]

I'm not forcing you to believe me - it's up to you. And Colin Clark is probably the most famous rally journalist in the world - does stage end reports for WRR and does TotalRally and occasionally writes in Motorsport News. I think he knows his stuff.
And you are obviously just giving us some bait to bite onto - Juho is a good driver, but Mikkelsen and Kopecky aren't novices and they can both handle a rallycar. Skoda would be foolish to pass over Juho, but then again Ford would be foolish to pass over Petter but it happened anyway. Politics are a bigger part of motorsport than most like to think.

So what is the team you are talking about then, please tell?

[dimviii]

Too soon to speculate what happens in 2012 before 2011 starts. Who knows maybe if Loeb is not comfortable in Citroen this year, he and the Red Bull sponsorship maybe VW bound. If VW come in what better way of short circuiting their learning curve than offering big money to Loeb and buy his knowledge and experience? Maybe Loeb wont feel so comfortable in "his team" this year and a big top up to the retirement fund by signing a two year VW deal could be in the offing.
Whoever else is at VW I think Hanninen will be there.

Ιn this scenario Ogier will be alone in Citroen? maybe Juho?

[Hartusvuori]

And Colin Clark is probably the most famous rally journalist in the world.

Martin Holmes, anyone? But I know Colin too.

[RS]

We will see, but Juho has already during the last year showed what he is able to do... And there is no doubt that he is ready for the fight with the big boys. There is no sense for Skoda to send him to drive S-WRC unless there is a plan. During this year he and the BRR Skoda collect the information of the WRC events and this data will be the base of the VW´s WRC effort. Their planned Word Rally Car must be based to Polo and it will be rather easy to modify current Fabia Super 2000 to be this VW`s World Rally Car.

Exactly, I don't think Juho is in sWRC this year to learn how to drive or for the competitiveness of that series. In fact I think he rather has his eyes on some strong overall finishes in WRC rallies this year and of course learning those WRC events for the future.

Whether or not the future VAG WRCar is a Skoda or a VW, Fabia Polo or Scirocco the Fabia is a great test mule for the 1.6T engine.

[pettersolberg29]

Martin Holmes, anyone? But I know Colin too.

I suppose - I was thinking more along the lines of radio journalists, but I suppose not everyone listens to WRR or TotalRally. Holmes is probably the best journalist though, you're right.

[pettersolberg29]

So what is the team you are talking about then, please tell?

You will know if/when it happens. If true then it won't stay quiet for too long!

[BDunnell]

Whether or not the future VAG WRCar is a Skoda or a VW, Fabia Polo or Scirocco the Fabia is a great test mule for the 1.6T engine.

Well, Malcolm Wilson has said quite categorically that VW will be entering as VW.

[MJW]

Well, Malcolm Wilson has said quite categorically that VW will be entering as VW.
I think you will find it was DR who said that at Autosport show.

[BDunnell]

I think you will find it was DR who said that at Autosport show.

And Wilson when asked on the Motor Sport magazine podcast in November.

[AndyRAC]

I read/ heard that VW were actually keen on a 1.4T engine formula - however, it would be good to see them in. Provided it was done properly - it's no good doing things on the cheap - you would hope the budget would be pretty big, the VW Group is in another league compared to PSA. (Although money doesn't guarantee success) I'm not sure about Al-Attiyah as a main driver mind you
The more marques the better - more drivers, more competition, hopefully more interest, etc
I also hope they seriously think about 3 car teams.

[grugsticles]

I also hope they seriously think about 3 car teams.

Amen. I seriously understand why they moved away from 3 car teams in the first place.
Money can be the only answer, but if someone, driver or sponsor is paying, whats the problem?

[grugsticles]

I also hope they seriously think about 3 car teams.

Amen. I seriously understand why they moved away from 3 car teams in the first place.
Money can be the only answer, but if someone, driver or sponsor is paying, whats the problem?

[Daniel]

Martin Holmes, anyone? But I know Colin too.

What he said! Colin might be well known, doesn't mean he's a good journalist.......

[N.O.T]

good journalist.......

LOL...all journalists without exceptions are propaganda tools and nothing more.

[Tomi]

What he said! Colin might be well known, doesn't mean he's a good journalist.......

Forum member Sami would be a good rally journalist, his rally reports and analyses is outstanding reading, VM should employ him right away.

[cali]

Forum member Sami would be a good rally journalist, his rally reports and analyses is outstanding reading, VM should employ him right away.
Where is he nowadays, haven't seen him here for ages or have I missed something?

[Francis44]

Bruno Magalhães confirmed more 7 rally's on IRC this year, next is Canarias, Corsica, Belgium and the Portuguese rounds.

The rest of the program will be decided later.

[RICARDO75]

I read/ heard that VW were actually keen on a 1.4T engine formula - however, it would be good to see them in. Provided it was done properly - it's no good doing things on the cheap - you would hope the budget would be pretty big, the VW Group is in another league compared to PSA. (Although money doesn't guarantee success) I'm not sure about Al-Attiyah as a main driver mind you
The more marques the better - more drivers, more competition, hopefully more interest, etc
I also hope they seriously think about 3 car teams.

Soon Volkswagen will have a 1600 turbo engine in the market, in the new Audi A1 S1
Maybe, it´s possible that they use this engine on wrc.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/261925/audi_a1_quattro_details.html?CMP=NLC-Newsletters&uid=05f89bb4fa0bef4e12114f66e6766ca5

[Mirek]

If I'm not mistaken WRC engine currently tested in Fabia is race-purpose unit built by Oreca.

[RICARDO75]

If I'm not mistaken WRC engine currently tested in Fabia is race-purpose unit built by Oreca.

But the engine built by Oreca could be based on the future engine that wiil be on Audi A1 S1.
Is it possible?

[Mirek]

Why would they start development of new stock-based engine when they already have special racing unit? (maybe my info is wrong though)

[MJW]

The 1.6 T engine you are refering to is a diesel.

[OldF]

I read/ heard that VW were actually keen on a 1.4T engine formula

The WRC regulations says that “the nominal cylinder capacity of the car equipped with the kit
(Super 2000 Rally Kit Variant) is limited to a maximum of 1600 cm3 (turbocharged engine) and group R regulations that:

“R3T : jusqu’à / up to 1.600 cm3
(pas de coefficient de calcul de cylindrée / no cylinder capacity calculation coefficient).”

By this I see a smaller cylinder capacity engine than 1600 cc is allowed in WRC but I think you meant that 1400 cc would have been the max capacity.



I also hope they seriously think about 3 car teams.

Yes, very seriously.

[Plan9]

I think the VW Scorocco and Golf has a much too high center of gravity...ultimately i think it would make more sense for VW to enter the Polo into the wrc...

[Barreis]

+1

[Juha_Koo]

I think the VW Scorocco and Golf has a much too high center of gravity...

VW Scirocco and high center of gravity don't even fit into the same sentence...

[N.O.T]

I think the VW Scorocco and Golf has a much too high center of gravity...ultimately i think it would make more sense for VW to enter the Polo into the wrc...

LOL....nice...

[pucky54]

Ogier crashed DS3 WRC during tests today?!?!?!

[dimviii]

source?!!

[6789]

source?!!
Paddocknews on twitter said he crashed, no hyperlink at all

[Barreis]

Found this on Twitter..

[dimviii]

Lets wait to be confirmed from somebody genuine

[N.O.T]

you guys consider crashing in testing rare and post it ??

[pettersolberg29]

No, but if its badly damaged it may mean one less DS3 for Sweden?

[nr7wave]

No, but if its badly damaged it may mean one less DS3 for Sweden?

Probably not. I think they have one dedicated test car, so it should'nt be a problem.

[dimviii]

you guys consider crashing in testing rare and post it ??

no its not rare,but 10 days before start for the 1st rally and without a test car is not the best.

[PLuto]

Henning Solberg heavily crashed (VIDEO) - http://bit.ly/e9lTW9

:D

[Daniel]

Henning Solberg heavily crashed (VIDEO) - http://bit.ly/e9lTW9

:D

I was incredible!

[RICARDO75]

Henning Solberg heavily crashed (VIDEO) - http://bit.ly/e9lTW9

:D

LOL

[Juha_Koo]

Henning Solberg heavily crashed (VIDEO) - http://bit.ly/e9lTW9

:D

Ahahahaha fakken hell! :D I'm cracking up so bad! Look at the body language of Petter and the presenter after the crash. :D

[Salist]

Henning is not a sprinter! :)

[tfp]

Ahahahaha fakken hell! :D I'm cracking up so bad! Look at the body language of Petter and the presenter after the crash. :D

Haha! That looked painful!!!

[Camelopard]

Henning Solberg heavily crashed (VIDEO) - http://bit.ly/e9lTW9

:D


Ouch!

[Brother John]

Ogier crashed DS3 WRC during tests today?!?!?!

Yes already before a real rally, it will be not his last time! And many have thought already since previous year that he becomes the future WRC champion.
http://serve.mysmiley.net/sign/sign0142.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/)

[Mirek]

If I were You, I wouldn't laugh before the battle begins. That often turns wrong. By the way Monte Carlo winner crashed three times on pre-event tests...

[Brother John]

If I were You, I wouldn't laugh before the battle begins. That often turns wrong. By the way Monte Carlo winner crashed three times on pre-event tests...


I will laugh next week as a live witness in Swedes still more. http://serve.mysmiley.net/animated/anim_63.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-adult-smileys.php)

[cali]

I will laugh next week as a live witness in Swedes still more. http://serve.mysmiley.net/animated/anim_63.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-adult-smileys.php)
This coming from a guy who thinks this forum is not serious enough anymore ... strange hypocrisy :rolleyes:

[Motorsportfun]

Henning Solberg heavily crashed (VIDEO) - http://bit.ly/e9lTW9

:D

Yeah, Henning is a tv-man, he's guest to lots of tv shows... it's because of this that he got lots of sponsors without problems ;)

take a look here

Z0O-OeXYZuo

[Hartusvuori]

Kubica to race Fabia S2000 in a rallysprint in Andorra on Sunday? Googlish! (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=fi&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://www.rajdy.v10.pl/Ronde,di,Andora,Kubica,zgloszony,w,Skodzie,Fabii,S 2000,55537.html&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhg5BTt_W2Kvq3mOWXu1WECIbVCIWA)

[Motorsportfun]

I shared Henning's crash in the hamster wheel 3 days ago on Facebook... and since that, in 3 days time, through blogs and social, came to WRC.com too!

Now I understand how powerful is the internet for Ken Block :)

[cercle]

Any news yet about the program from Novikov?

Any news about Conrad Rautenbach?

[Hartusvuori]

In the latest issue of Vauhdin Maailma Tommi Mäkinen keeps the rumours alive that he has negoatiated with two marquees about the possibility to build a new World Rally Car. He doesn't tell which those makes are.

Mikko Hirvonen feels also confident about the new season. On the technical side, he said that the new Fiesta engine must be kept around or above 7000 rpm to give the best performace. Limiter is at 8500 rpm. That should be audible.

Jarmo Lehtinen underwent a minor surgery during the off season. He hurt his shoulder and bicep in the crash in Finland. It was not due to any impact but G-forces, that torn some of the bicep muscles off his shoulder. During the tests Mikko Hirvonen drove with Scott Martin.

[grugsticles]

In the latest issue of Vauhdin Maailma Tommi Mäkinen keeps the rumours alive that he has negoatiated with two marquees about the possibility to build a new World Rally Car. He doesn't tell which those makes are.

Mikko Hirvonen feels also confident about the new season. On the technical side, he said that the new Fiesta engine must be kept around or above 7000 rpm to give the best performace. Limiter is at 8500 rpm. That should be audible.

Jarmo Lehtinen underwent a minor surgery during the off season. He hurt his shoulder and bicep in the crash in Finland. It was not due to any impact but G-forces, that torn some of the bicep muscles off his shoulder. During the tests Mikko Hirvonen drove with Scott Martin.

Love the Tommi rumour! :D

As for what Miko said.... that worrys me about the Fiesta's performance. To me if an engine needs to rev at about 80% of its rev limit it means there isnt a lot of torque available.
I would suspect the Citroen to be ahead of the Ford in terms of torque.

[Motorsportfun]

In the latest issue of Vauhdin Maailma Tommi Mäkinen keeps the rumours alive that he has negoatiated with two marquees about the possibility to build a new World Rally Car. He doesn't tell which those makes are.

Mikko Hirvonen feels also confident about the new season. On the technical side, he said that the new Fiesta engine must be kept around or above 7000 rpm to give the best performace. Limiter is at 8500 rpm. That should be audible.

Jarmo Lehtinen underwent a minor surgery during the off season. He hurt his shoulder and bicep in the crash in Finland. It was not due to any impact but G-forces, that torn some of the bicep muscles off his shoulder. During the tests Mikko Hirvonen drove with Scott Martin.

Can guess Saab...

[AP-Racing]

Novikov starts in Mexico on Ford Fiesta WRC (source Official site)

[ProRally]

Novikov starts in Mexico on Ford Fiesta WRC (source Official site)

More work for M-Sport body shop :hot:

[AP-Racing]

More work for M-Sport body shop :hot:

Ahahahahahaha
I hope Zhenya like distroyed only french cars

[Sulland]

Can guess Saab...

Would be coool, with a SAAB made in Finland back on the rally roads !

[mm1]

I`ve heard rumours from close persons to Russian Saab owners, that the Saab project will be made.

[Xsara Fan]

Novikov starts in Mexico on Ford Fiesta WRC (source Official site)

...and with co-driver Stephane Prevot :)

[6789]

...and with co-driver Stephane Prevot :)

Full face helmet and neck brace required lol. Be good to see his pace actually, going to be an interesting rally.

Just on the numbers, they could do a WRC USA round and probably get the same numbers?

[PLuto]

New base car for Skoda WRC? photo (http://forum.autosport.cz/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=67&p=46640#p46639)

[HaCo]

New base car for Skoda WRC? photo (http://forum.autosport.cz/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=67&p=46640#p46639)
Sciroco?

[Juha_Koo]

Sciroco?

Joyster.

[AndyRAC]

Hmm, it does look very 'Scirocco-ish' but then that's normal for VW Group cars. Could they get away with having virtually the same car badged as a VW and Skoda?? Meaning sharing the costs??

[Mirek]

This is just photoshop, don't get it too serious ;)

[Barreis]

New base car for Skoda WRC? photo (http://forum.autosport.cz/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=67&p=46640#p46639)

They can **** theirself after Kubica show..

[Mirek]

Which material do You smoke last few days???

[dimviii]

Which material do You smoke last few days???

Must be elf turbomax lol

[Barreis]

I don't smoke but škoda will, I hope..

[Mirek]

Feel free to elaborate because I have a strong feeling that You live in some different space where there are different laws of physics...

[OldF]

Multiuniverse

[Barreis]

It's shame that nobody started to talk in public about law safety of latest version of cars.. 'Cos if railguard can pass through the car like a cheese then something is wrong.. That's bad..

[JRodrigues]

Found the car you want..

http://www.crainium.net/jdjArchives/armored_car.jpg

[BDunnell]

It's shame that nobody started to talk in public about law safety of latest version of cars.. 'Cos if railguard can pass through the car like a cheese then something is wrong.. That's bad..

I am glad someone has mentioned it, and feel it deserves its own thread, because this was one of the first things to cross my mind.

[Barreis]

Just put škoda on it.. :D

[Barreis]

I am glad someone has mentioned it, and feel it deserves its own thread, because this was one of the first things to cross my mind.

+1

[bluuford]

Feel free to elaborate because I have a strong feeling that You live in some different space where there are different laws of physics...

Direct broadcast from that different space..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4np3_Ib5jw&feature=related

[Mirek]

BDunell, Barreis: Guys, You don't need to be rocket scientists to understand that Your thinking that it's possible to stop railguards with such sharp blade on their end penetrating the car is very naive. That post of JRodrigues is in fact very good because You would really need something like that to do so.

In very simple math You get that a S2000 car with crew and fuel moving 100 km/h has kinetic energy of cca 0,5 MJ. It's 3x more than muzzle energy of 30 mm gun round or 200x more than machinegun bullet. If You would have a one kilogram heavy thing, it would have to fly at 3600 km/h to have such energy...

There is no passenger/race car in the world which would stop those rails. You would need armor plates all around and ten centimeters thick bullet-proof windows. Alltogether it would weight a ton.

[urabus-denoS2000]

I don't understand what does Škoda have to do with that ? It would be the same with any rally car ( not just S2000 ) , and it will take lots of years of safety development to be able to stop that kind of penetration . That rail is technically like a spear , and all of you can use basic physics formulas ( like Mirek noted ) to see for yourselves that current safety from these kind of impacts is VERY far away for current technology and materials .

Sorry for the offtopic ... I saw a similar crash in person , at 4th Carnia Rally Ronde last year . It was also in Italy , the roads were very common , it was also a rally Ronde and the crash was similar , although with lot smaller speeds ( after a hairpin ) . The driver was Nicola Cescutti , he slided too far due to wet road and hit the rail ( although a very old and rusty rail ) directly , with devastating damage to his Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 9 . The rail penetrated the car , although not as much as Kubica luckily . Both crew members were unhurt . At the bottom of the page you can see the car ( http://www.desno4.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=23 )

[Barreis]

You're Chech and I understand that you like škoda but never saw in my life pictures like that.. I saw many accidents on highways but never saw that rails passed through whole car.. That's bad.. What Kubica would say in public after all and if he wasn't hurt in that accident?! Would be interested to hear somebody with authority in public about fabia rails..

[Mirek]

That has nothing to do with Škoda but with laws of physics. When I studied vehicle safety I could see several accidents with rails penetrating whole car (BMW X5 for example). It's just a matter of physics. I have even saw a Mercedes E-Class almost cut into two pieces by motorbike...

Warning, some terrible graphic photos. Don't watch these photos who believe me (many cars penetrated by guardrails) ;)

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/articles/048-audi-r8.shtml

[N.O.T]

yes, the driver lost both his legs...28 years old...drunk driving and high speed.

the car is for sale at 40.000 euros a dealer who specialises in destroyed exotics has it.

[MJW]

BDunell, and Barreis you are missing the point that Kubica was driving a Skoda. A guardrail like that would penetrate and tear open any car. It is not Skoda that should be under the spotlight here, but the highway authority that used that type of guardrail and maybe the organisers for not protecting the end that came into the car with some form of soft protection. I am not some crazy guy who want to put run off areas and make stages into race tracks but to allow a man made hazard is crazy. If it was a tree, or mountain side I would not saw anything, but to allow a can opener on a stage.....

[bluuford]

[quote="MJW"]

Yeah, I have seen in many rallies that such hazards are often eliminated by using hay balls. It does not cost too much but it is very effective. Even if you crash on it, it bounces you off (due to the round shape) and absorbs some of the impact energy. But the problem is that it still costs something and organizers budgets are always quite tight...

[TyPat107]

I can't understand peoples thinking that its the Skoda's fault. Here is an American SUV that has 90 feet of guard rail penetrating it. It was a terrible accident and I wish Robert a quick recovery

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/tag/guard-rail-accident

[N.O.T]

it was a freak accident...in such situations you are unlucky if that happened to you, but very lucky to survive....Skoda has nothing to do with it.

[Dug83]

I posted this on another thread but i'll post it again. You'll never build a car that can stop a guard rail entering a car but you can build a guard rail that doesn't enter a car. Anyone who thinks Skoda is to blame for this clearly lacks common sense. Here is a guard rail that when you crash into bends back on itself to stop it entering the car.http://www.turnerfence.com/guardrails.jpg

[Brother John]

I posted this on another thread but i'll post it again. You'll never build a car that can stop a guard rail entering a car but you can build a guard rail that doesn't enter a car. Anyone who thinks Skoda is to blame for this clearly lacks common sense. Here is a guard rail that when you crash into bends back on itself to stop it entering the car.

The problem is that the piles stand generally not well. In Belgium and the Netherlands the guard rail are generally also build each side of the pile with 30 cm element between the rails!
There are so many different constructions which are for many municipalities or countrys too expensive.
I self has worked 6 years with guard rails and the company is still in my family.

[Barreis]

At least all škoda drivers will now think when they'll see guardraills.. :D

[Nornbugger]

At least all škoda drivers will now think when they'll see guardraills.. :D

Maybe all drivers should, this is not a Skoda problem, but to try to help people like you understand this would be difficult, you appear to have limited interest in learning the reality of the situation.

Hopefully Robert Kubica make a full and speedy recovery

[jerse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Q2MFkiaj8 Kubica crash reconstruction. I think it was all bad luck and nobody should blame Skoda about accidents results.

[Pinto]

They can **** theirself after Kubica show..

the bottom line is the gaurd rail is there to do a job and it failed im presuming that there was a week point let it be the piles or the joint where the rails overlap,this is nothing to do with Skoda you comments are harsh on a matter perhaps you do not understand,
i speak from a perspective of having worked in road construction,this could have happened to car Kubica was in or the last car on the road or a general member of the public,but im sure it will be a matter for the roads authority in Italy to look into.

[Daniel]

the bottom line is the gaurd rail is there to do a job and it failed im presuming that there was a week point let it be the piles or the joint where the rails overlap,this is nothing to do with Skoda you comments are harsh on a matter perhaps you do not understand,
i speak from a perspective of having worked in road construction,this could have happened to car Kubica was in or the last car on the road or a general member of the public,but im sure it will be a matter for the roads authority in Italy to look into.

Sadly some people on here love to make sensationalist statements without putting their brains into gear.

[nr7wave]

Sadly some people on here love to make sensationalist statements without putting their brains into gear.

Thats probably because they lack one, or have'nt used one fore a long while ;)

[Madders5]

Totally agree with nr7wave...people need to learn to put their brains to use! A guy can only dream!

[FabiaFan]

You're Chech and I understand that you like škoda but never saw in my life pictures like that.. I saw many accidents on highways but never saw that rails passed through whole car.. That's bad.. What Kubica would say in public after all and if he wasn't hurt in that accident?! Would be interested to hear somebody with authority in public about fabia rails..

He's Czech.
And you're insane... or undereducated...

[Barreis]

You can suck my dick.. If you pay 265000 euros for car then you want maximum of protection with cevlar material (same as F1).. I have university degree..

[Barreis]

If you pay 265000+VAT euros for car then you want maximum of protection with cevlar material (same as F1).. I have university degree..

[wwbroe]

What a level of discussion. Personally i don't think it would have made any difference if you put kevlar in the car. Maybe in your university laws of physics are different? :D

[Daniel]

Can't believe the rudeness and ignorance some people display. Anyone who has a slight knowledge of physics knows that you'd have needed tank type armour to stop that armco going through the car.....

[FabiaFan]

If you pay 265000+VAT euros for car then you want maximum of protection with cevlar material (same as F1).. I have university degree..
...cevlar...Chech...university degree...any other jokes???

[Mirek]

What I always loved on this forum was the respect of each user to another. I hope it keeps like that with no more posts like that of Barreis...

[Barreis]

Before this I never wrote anything like this but you started with insults about education, etc. I have my opinion and that's it..

[OldF]

An university degree don’t mean anything if one don’t understand simple physics and IMO in this case use of common sense is enough. If a car hit an Armco, all the energy is concentrated in so small area that it would need a very thick cevlar layer to prevent it to penetrate the car.