Women in Formula 1?

[PolePosition_1]

This has probably been done before, and will be done in the future.

But what do you all think of women in F1 as drivers?

Its possibly as has already been proven, but can they be successful?

Discuss :)

[Knock-on]

This has probably been done before, and will be done in the future.

But what do you all think of women in F1 as drivers?

Its possibly as has already been proven, but can they be successful?

Discuss :)

Very, very unlikely they will ever be more than a gimmick.

All good fun and all that but pardon the pun, they just don't have the balls.

<Ducks>

[ShiftingGears]

This has probably been done before, and will be done in the future.

But what do you all think of women in F1 as drivers?

Its possibly as has already been proven, but can they be successful?

Discuss :)

I don't see why its impossible for a woman to be a successful F1 driver.

[Knock-on]

I don't see why its impossible for a woman to be a successful F1 driver.


I suppose it depends on how you measure success but it's not impossible, just highly unlikely.

Women are starting at a disadvantage because of their physical build and stamina.

A small example of physical issues such as seat belts would also make a woman coming into F1 feel very uncomfortable I would have thought.

In a sport where 1/1000th of a second matters, it is unlikely that a woman would be able to outperform all the men and be WDC unless it was contrived.

Besides which, with all the household chores that need doing, were would they find the time?

[Rollo]

In all honesty, because women are usually on the whole physically smaller than men, then there should be a minor advantage. Certainly there isn't a difference in the way their brains operate in this department.

The reason why you don't see all that many in the sport generally is that quite frankly in a lot of cases it bores the tears out of them, let alone wanting to actually drive in the sport.

[555-04Q2]

Well they make great pit ladies, especially the ones with the tight little mini ski..... :p :

[Knock-on]

Besides which, with all the household chores that need doing, were would they find the time?

Seriously, I cannot see any reason why a woman couldn't be competitve in series like Tourning cars or lower Formula but the extreems of exertion and pressure in F1 would not lend itself to the female body.

I appreciate that people will accuse me of being sexist etc but I'm just being realistic.

Anyway, I'm not sexist. Some of my best friends are Women :D

[Knock-on]

In all honesty, because women are usually on the whole physically smaller than men, then there should be a minor advantage. Certainly there isn't a difference in the way their brains operate in this department.

The reason why you don't see all that many in the sport generally is that quite frankly in a lot of cases it bores the tears out of them, let alone wanting to actually drive in the sport.

It's the age old issue about sport.

If men and women were the same, why not unisex football matches, running, swimming, golf, tennis, cycling etc.

I appreciate that more men are fascinated by Motorsport than Women as the whole thrill of speed and danger in inherently part of the male psyche and makeup. At the age of puberty, Testosterone flows from out bodies like some sort of thrill magnet.

But again, that is not to say that a woman cannot succeed but that women are not predisposed to the sport and are not as suited to the extremes that F1 inflicts on the body as men are.

Seriously, I cannot see any reason why a woman couldn't be competitve in series like Tourning cars or lower Formula but the extreems of exertion and pressure in F1 would not lend itself to the female body.

I appreciate that people will accuse me of being sexist etc but I'm just being realistic

Don't worry, I'd never call you sexy.

And I'm not particularly looking for an argument, but wasn't the same thing said about women astronauts? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Israeli's have female fighter pilots too, although that might have just been some sordid fantasy of mine......I'm certain, however, that in terms of multi-tasking information, the MOD (or the Pentagon, not sure which) has run tests which show that female pilots have the edge in terms of operating complex fighter jets.

[ChrisS]

If we compare the number of young boys with the number of young girls that go into motorsport I think its easy to see why its harder to find a woman in top level motorsport.

Out of all the young boys that start Karting a number will drop out because of lack of talent/interest/money the rest will move to junior formulae where the same apply and as they move up the development ladder they become fewer and fewer until there are the only 1-2 left each season that are good enough for F1.

The same elimination process applies for girls but since much fewer girls go into racing to begin with the chances of finding 1 woman that can go all the way to F1 are much less.

I think its possible that the most naturally talented woman driver may never sit in a racing car (and the same also applies for men)

[PolePosition_1]

If we compare the number of young boys with the number of young girls that go into motorsport I think its easy to see why its harder to find a woman in top level motorsport.

Out of all the young boys that start Karting a number will drop out because of lack of talent/interest/money the rest will move to junior formulae where the same apply and as they move up the development ladder they become fewer and fewer until there are the only 1-2 left each season that are good enough for F1.

The same elimination process applies for girls but since much fewer girls go into racing to begin with the chances of finding 1 woman that can go all the way to F1 are much less.

I think its possible that the most naturally talented woman driver may never sit in a racing car (and the same also applies for men)

Yeah, I think this is one of the biggest reasons why we haven't got women in motorsport, simply because not many want to be in it.

Its all down to society and the stereotypes which society provides us with.

Thats the 'social' reasons why women aren't in F1.

Then we have the physical reasons why women aren't in F1. Which is exactly what Knock On states in his posts.

Men and women are different. Thats not sexist, its fact. Men and women are segregated in most physical sports, highlighting the difference. With F1, there no rule which says women aren't allowed in, so no women category, which makes it near impossible for women to succeed, when you take into account he social reasons, with lack of women interested in it, so already not many to pick from, and on top of that the physical disadvantage they have.

So in my opinion, its very unlikely to see a woman succeed in F1.

[carracing]

Yeah, I think this is one of the biggest reasons why we haven't got women in motorsport, simply because not many want to be in it.

Its all down to society and the stereotypes which society provides us with.

Thats the 'social' reasons why women aren't in F1.

Then we have the physical reasons why women aren't in F1.

I agree with you 100%. Just look at the success rate (or lack thereof) of women in other categories of motorsports. When they win people think it was a "gimme" (like Danicka and Ashley Force) and when they don't the media starts up with the "women drivers" B.S. that probably makes them wonder why they signed up for this punishment in the first place.

There are lots of things women do better... but there are just some things that will always remain a male-dominated sport/activity.

[Knock-on]

Yeah, I think this is one of the biggest reasons why we haven't got women in motorsport, simply because not many want to be in it.

Its all down to society and the stereotypes which society provides us with.

Thats the 'social' reasons why women aren't in F1.

However, ironically that's why if it were possible for a woman to become a Champion, she would be.

F1 has been gagging for a Black role model for years. The marketing potential is huge and although Lewis has demonstrated his ability without artificial help, the marketing opportunity is massive.

Same with Tiger in Golf. He is the best of the best but look at the new market it has opened to the sport. Golf is sexy again.

The temptation to engineer a female F1 Champion is huge and if there was any way it could have been done, it would have been, make no bones about it.

Golf is sexy again.

Impossible, as it never was in the first place.

Unless, of course, you're into men wearing long neck jumpers and slacks.

[Rollo]

If men and women were the same, why not unisex football matches, running, swimming, golf, tennis, cycling etc.

<snip>

But again, that is not to say that a woman cannot succeed but that women are not predisposed to the sport and are not as suited to the extremes that F1 inflicts on the body as men are.

The argument is reasonably sound in most circumstancs, but women can actually stand the extremes as shown by the fact that there are women astronauts and fighter pilots.

With a motor car, the difference in performance is not determined by the physical strength of the driver or otherwise Gerhard Berger should have beaten most competitors most of the time. Rather the strength of the motor car itself is a bigger factor.

[raphael_2]

The argument is reasonably sound in most circumstancs, but women can actually stand the extremes as shown by the fact that there are women astronauts and fighter pilots.

With a motor car, the difference in performance is not determined by the physical strength of the driver or otherwise Gerhard Berger should have beaten most competitors most of the time. Rather the strength of the motor car itself is a bigger factor.

Rollo, are you therefore saying women can compete to a high standard in F1? :dozey:

I'm all for stamping out sex discrimination, but if a woman can not actually do as good a job as a male can then they shouldn't be hired. This applies to F1 surely!!

[speeddurango]

Are racing drivers athletes? If your answer is yes then the reason is quite obvious, it's only worth discussion if your answer is no.

[PolePosition_1]

Are racing drivers athletes? If your answer is yes then the reason is quite obvious, it's only worth discussion if your answer is no.

Thats a very good way of looking at it!

To me, F1 drivers are athletes.

For a women to succeed in F1, it'd be like a woman succeeding in a mens Tennis Tournament, not impossible, but highly unlikely.

[PolePosition_1]

The argument is reasonably sound in most circumstancs, but women can actually stand the extremes as shown by the fact that there are women astronauts and fighter pilots.

With a motor car, the difference in performance is not determined by the physical strength of the driver or otherwise Gerhard Berger should have beaten most competitors most of the time. Rather the strength of the motor car itself is a bigger factor.

But Rollo, F1 is more demanding than being an astronaut or fighter pilot, women may well be able to easily cope with those roles, and could I am sure cope with driving an F1 car.

But they wouldn't be able be as competitive as a man in those conditions.

[call_me_andrew]

I agree with you 100%. Just look at the success rate (or lack thereof) of women in other categories of motorsports. When they win people think it was a "gimme" (like Danicka and Ashley Force) and when they don't the media starts up with the "women drivers" B.S. that probably makes them wonder why they signed up for this punishment in the first place.

There are lots of things women do better... but there are just some things that will always remain a male-dominated sport/activity.

I don't know anyone that called Ashley Force's win a "gimme". Shirley Muldowney won 3 Top Fuel championships. Angelle Sampey won 3 Pro Stock Motorcycle championships. Clearly there is a notable success rate.

[ShiftingGears]

I think its possible that the most naturally talented woman driver may never sit in a racing car (and the same also applies for men)

I totally agree.

As far as women being athletes are concerned, depends how much physical training they do. And on top of that, racing is more of a mental sport than most (all?) Olympic sports.

[ArrowsFA1]

I don't know anyone that called Ashley Force's win a "gimme". Shirley Muldowney won 3 Top Fuel championships. Angelle Sampey won 3 Pro Stock Motorcycle championships. Clearly there is a notable success rate.
I think that's the thing that got me over DP's win in Motegi. Many say she lucked into it on fuel strategy, but that's a central feature of racing. Of course there was an element of luck, but why should DP be criticised for that simply because of her sex.

The fact is she's a competitve Indycar driver. That doesn't prove that a woman could do the same in F1, but it doesn't disprove the theory either.

[Knock-on]

I think that's the thing that got me over DP's win in Motegi. Many say she lucked into it on fuel strategy, but that's a central feature of racing. Of course there was an element of luck, but why should DP be criticised for that simply because of her sex.

The fact is she's a competitve Indycar driver. That doesn't prove that a woman could do the same in F1, but it doesn't disprove the theory either.


Agreed.

Heikki lucked into a win because the 2 people that had the best strategy to win suffered car related issues.

However you have to be in the right place at the right time whatever your sex.

Put DP in the dominant Ferrari of the early decade for example and have a clear #2 supporting her and she would win the championship. However, not on merit because the car and strategy is almost fool proof.

It's not too hard to engineer a woman Champion but on a level playing field, I suggest men are more disposed to suceed in F1.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

I think that's the thing that got me over DP's win in Motegi. Many say she lucked into it on fuel strategy, but that's a central feature of racing. Of course there was an element of luck, but why should DP be criticised for that simply because of her sex.

The fact is she's a competitve Indycar driver. That doesn't prove that a woman could do the same in F1, but it doesn't disprove the theory either.

A win is a win, no matter how you get it. It doesn't make me rate Danica (or Heikki) higher than Chris Amon, though. Danica isn't a bad driver, but I don't think she's done enough to warrant her place at AGR. That is, however, true for three of their four drivers.

There will always be harder to find a good woman driver than a male one simply because women in general aren't as interested in motorsport as men. The pool of potential candidates is thus much smaller. I don't care if we get a woman driver in F1, just as I didn't care when we got a black driver or an Indian driver. They're all "just" drivers, and they're here to race.

[ArrowsFA1]

They're all "just" drivers, and they're here to race.
:up: :s mokin:

[Easy Drifter]

What most people are forgetting, or didn't know, is that there have been several women racing in F1. Lella Lombardi and Davinia Galicia probably being the best. Neither were very successful but both were competent.
I personally think it has more to do with numbers racing than skill and sooner or later there will be a top line female F1 driver.
I have worked for two women drivers and known several others during my 50 odd years around the sport and percentage wise they were as good as the men.

[ArrowsFA1]

What most people are forgetting, or didn't know, is that there have been several women racing in F1. Lella Lombardi and Davinia Galicia probably being the best. Neither were very successful but both were competent.
I would suggest that Desiré Wilson was possibly the best female F1 driver. Her record shows one DNQ but she did race in the 1981 South African GP which was a victim of the FISA/FOCA war of the time. She might have raced a third Brabham for that race, but instead raced for Tyrrell.

The story of her DNQ is an interesting one. In an interview (http://www.f1rejects.com/interviews/wilson/index.html) she said:

The 1980 British GP was the most disappointing weekend of my life. I could not believe it at the time, and to this day still cringe when I think of the events that took place. Two weeks prior to the British GP, during the tire test days, I had an absolutely wonderful race car. I was 9th fastest of the 21 cars at the test day (the first time I had ever driven a "skirted" ground effects car). I was so confident in qualifying for that race. I did not know that the car was owned by Emilio de Villota at the time, and also unaware that Emilio did not know I was driving his "borrowed" car.

So for the British GP, one of Eliseo Salazar's recently crashed Aurora FW07s was put together, and delivered to the British GP for me to qualify. The car was evil! The qualifying tires/wheels did not fit the uprights, so I had no qualifying rubber, the issues go on and on. I will never forget that awful weekend and will never forget the con job. A lot of very good people were hurt in many ways on that weekend.
A very talented lady who will be back at the Goodwood Revival again this year.

[Easy Drifter]

Arrows: You may be right. My feeble old memory had forgotten Desire.
My only excuse is I saw Lella race and was a bit of a fan of Davinia after she ran an Atlantic car at the fiasco in Hamilton. No practice to speak of (nobody had any) and never sat in the car before and finished 4th. Keke won.
Last year she ran in the F1 revival at Mosport in the 2nd oldest car and finished 2nd.

[ArrowsFA1]

My only excuse is I saw Lella race and was a bit of a fan of Davinia after she ran an Atlantic car at the fiasco in Hamilton. No practice to speak of (nobody had any) and never sat in the car before and finished 4th. Keke won.
Last year she ran in the F1 revival at Mosport in the 2nd oldest car and finished 2nd.
You have the advantage on me of seeing those two race. I guess my view is coloured slightly by seeing Wilson (and maybe Galica - my memory fails me!) in the British Aurora F1 series of the late 70's where she was up against the likes of David Kennedy, Guy Edwards, Rupert Keegan and Emilio Villota. Not Keke-level, but still a competitive field, and she performed well. Certainly well enough to deserve her chance in F1, which made what happened at the 1980 British GP such an injustice.

[harsha]

if they can set a competitive lap time,i don't see why Women shouldn't be in Formula 1....

[Knock-on]

if they can set a competitive lap time,i don't see why Women shouldn't be in Formula 1....


No reason whatsoever.

I think it would be great to see women in F1 if they are there on merit but I would hate to see a female driver promoted into F1 because of her sex and not her ability.

[Valve Bounce]

Great Sponsorship potential - anything from cosmetics (a billion dollar industry) to sunglasses. I say: give women a go!

[harsha]

I think it would be great to see women in F1 if they are there on merit but I would hate to see a female driver promoted into F1 because of her sex and not her ability.

that would be something like the ideal case scenario.

But Sponsors would rather sponsor a woman driver in F1 (if she can do the fast laps ofcourse) rather than the other drivers....

[jens]

I've thought for some time that maybe women should have their own racing series. In other sport disciplines men and women don't compete together, so why shouldn't motorsports follow the same direction too?

[ArrowsFA1]

I've thought for some time that maybe women should have their own racing series. In other sport disciplines men and women don't compete together, so why shouldn't motorsports follow the same direction too?
Formula Woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Woman) tried but failed a few years ago :dozey:

[Knock-on]

Formula Woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Woman) tried but failed a few years ago :dozey:

The problem is that womens sport in general is not paticulaly well supported.

Womens football is the most popular female sport in this country with a recorded 60,000 participants and affiliates yet the top teams struggle to get more than a couple of hundred spectators.

If a woman were to break into F1, it would give a lot of exposure to women in motorsport but a womans series just doesn't seem to draw the crowds.

[Valve Bounce]

The problem is that womens sport in general is not paticulaly well supported.

Womens football is the most popular female sport in this country with a recorded 60,000 participants and affiliates yet the top teams struggle to get more than a couple of hundred spectators.

If a woman were to break into F1, it would give a lot of exposure to women in motorsport but a womans series just doesn't seem to draw the crowds.

I have to agree with this. Women do partake in many sports here including football and hockey, but they do not attract the same spectators. Personally, I'd like to see women succeed in sports directly against men, like Michelle Mouton did; that would be sensational.

[MrJan]

Men and women are different, there is no avoiding that.

The fact is that, generally, women just don't do as well in motorsport as blokes, regardless of funding etc. they usually are near the back of the field. Obviously there are exceptions (Michele Mouton is one) but for the most part I don't think that are equal behind the wheel. The thing is that we have seen women given chances in motorsport; female drivers I can think of in various types of racing include Danica Patrick, Fionna Leggate, Paula Cook, Katherine Legge etc. etc. FOr the most part these are considered to be fast female drivers but when it comes to the crunch they just can't cut it at the top level.

The whole sponsorship/breaks argument is rubbish because right down to the smalles club event women are usually a bit behind (I think it's because they have more sense than blokes and consider the risks more). In addition any fool can see that sponsoring a woman will get you more exposure than a bloke and that there is a whole different market to corner.

Ultimately I think that top level motorsport is desperate for more female drivers because it'll mean more income, sadly they just don't seem to be quick enough.

[LeonBrooke]

I doubt Valerie Vili would lack the strength or stamina.

But I see the point when you look at Danica Patrick running near the front on ovals bu nowhere on the roadcourses...

but if we can have a woman world rally champion (which we almost did), I don't see why we couldn't have a woman F1 champ. Not for a good while though.

[Knock-on]

I doubt Valerie Vili would lack the strength or stamina.

But I see the point when you look at Danica Patrick running near the front on ovals bu nowhere on the roadcourses...

but if we can have a woman world rally champion (which we almost did), I don't see why we couldn't have a woman F1 champ. Not for a good while though.

Rally and Touring cars requires good fitness and stamina but it's still lightyears away from F1.

I hope, and believe that one day we will see some women come through that can challenge but they will always be an exception IMHO.

Football is far more suited for both men and women to compete on a equal basis but it doesn't happen while F1 is not suited to a level playing field between the sexes (pardon the pun)

[call_me_andrew]

But I see the point when you look at Danica Patrick running near the front on ovals bu nowhere on the roadcourses...

Actually, before Danica's win at Motegi, her best finish was 2nd at Belle Isle.

[LeonBrooke]

Actually, before Danica's win at Motegi, her best finish was 2nd at Belle Isle.

Which was very impressive, and indeed she scored a third on another of the road courses that year (I followed Indycar quite closely last year), but this year it just hasn't been there for her. Probably because of all the Champcar people, but she's way down the order on the road courses. I think she'd be great to have in F1, but I hardly think she'd set the world alight on her debut. Maybe in her second season.

[Jag_Warrior]

The more women become involved in motor sports, the more likely it is that one (or more) will make it to Formula One. But unless it's some sort of PR stunt or ride buy, the woman that finds success in F1 will be like the men who have found success in F1: she'll be an exceptional driver. Media hype and teams of PR people don't win the WDC.

If you take gender out of the discussion, Danica Patrick is far from an exceptional driver. Nothing against the Danicamaniacs, but when you're pushing 27, you've won no championships and but one professional auto race in your entire life (on an oval), you're in the IRL (a formula with almost the same hp/weight ratio as GP2) and another driver still has to set up your car for you... you're not exactly Formula One material, IMO. Starting fights and taking off your clothes doesn't make one an exceptional driver. But I do think there are girls out there who are, or will become, exceptional drivers (without the hype). I believe those are the girls who may eventually drive in Formula One.

[ShiftingGears]

Which was very impressive, and indeed she scored a third on another of the road courses that year (I followed Indycar quite closely last year), but this year it just hasn't been there for her. Probably because of all the Champcar people, but she's way down the order on the road courses. I think she'd be great to have in F1, but I hardly think she'd set the world alight on her debut. Maybe in her second season.

I doubt she'd set Gp2 alight in her second season.

[MrJan]

I doubt she'd set Gp2 alight in her second season.

I don't think she'd ever set GP2 alight. It takes a special driver to do that and whilst Danica is undoubtedly quick, she is no world beater. Until we see a woman winning in Formula Renault, F3 or GP2 then I don't think that there will be a decent reason to put a female in an F1 car.

[Knock-on]

Totally agree with Jan and Jag.

[haggle]

But they wouldn't be able be as competitive as a man in those conditions.
Surely this is all to do with the Testosterone that Knock On mentioned above. This strange hormone that encourages us men to go binge drinking and thumping each other on a Friday night is also that vital ingredient that pushes us to be just that little bit faster than the next guy. Without the dreaded Testosterone, women don't quite have that 'competitive edge', or to put it another way, they simply don't see the interest in, or need to be the quickest. Why go to all that effort?

(Maybe they're right...)

H.