Joe Gibbs Racing - Nationwide Series TROUBLE !!!

[harvick#1]

cheating cheating is the name of the game and they finally got caught

http://www.thatsracin.com/247/story/17560.html

This is something that Nascar kicks them out for the rest of the season if they are serious enough to hold their integrity in motorsports. to cheat under a dyno is a new low, and serious actions have to be taken on this one

[jslone]

when the penalties come down they well be justified,but Jack needs to shut the hell up,he has no room to talk considering his history.The best I can think of is his team cost Mark martin hte cup title a couple of years ago.

[MD24]

Magnets on the cars' accelerator pedals, how low can you get

[jslone]

does anyone remembe a certain Waltrip last year for a siubstance in the fuel??????

[Sparky1329]

Yes, John. I do remember that issue with MWR very well. The penalties handed down on that infraction will probably be peanuts compared to the penalties JGR will suffer and justifiably. I'm sorry to say that this is a huge black eye for the Gibbs organization.

[harvick#1]

yeah, MWR never won 14 races in a season.

you got to wonder if they've been doing it at every dyno test, This is Nascars time to step up to the plate and see if they actually have balls to suspend JGR from the track in the NWS, or if there greed will keep them in

[jslone]

where were the inspectors if that was the case?If the penalties do happen,I dont have a problem with Nascar doing the maximum(sp) for the nationwide series.his is not cup,so as far as I know this is a first.Ban the guy who did the dirty deed done dirt cheap(Had to go there),and fine the crew chiefs and all that stuff.

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Makes you wonder if they've been doing the same on the cup dyno tests.

[RaceFanStan]

where were the inspectors if that was the case?If the penalties do happen,I dont have a problem with Nascar doing the maximum(sp) for the nationwide series.his is not cup,so as far as I know this is a first.Ban the guy who did the dirty deed done dirt cheap(Had to go there),and fine the crew chiefs and all that stuff.
The modifications were made AFTER the race, the inspectors did their jobs very well.
I wouldn't expect a ban for JGR, points penalties & money fines are the norm.

[carracing]

Anxious to see the official word/result from NASCAR. I'm a Tony Stewart fan and will be the happiest person in the world (next to Tony) to see him leave JGR and Toyota next year. It can't happen soon enough IMO!

[jeffmr2]

I'm wondering how long has this been happening?All season or just since nascar unfairly penalised the toyota teams for doing a better job than chevrolet etc with their engines.
At least they come clean and admited to it unlike that whining Jack Roush earlier in the year.

[Rapier Racer]

I hope the cup cars are clean...

[jslone]

I hope the cup cars are clean...

your right on that,so fars its just the nationwide teams,now the inspectors may take a look at the cup cars a lot more closer then in the past.

[Hotlavaaaa]

Can someone explain what the function of the magnets was? I haven't found an article to explain it and I can't figure out in my mind what they were there to do.

[colinspooky]

Can someone explain what the function of the magnets was? I haven't found an article to explain it and I can't figure out in my mind what they were there to do.

Yep - ditto - linko deado

Here we go

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/17/AR2008081702439.html

[colinspooky]

So, have I got this right - it's not the fact it's a magnet, it is basically a 'shim' to reduce the distance the pedal goes down before hitting the car floor which means the gas is not wide open and will register less on the dyno?

The magnet bit is just to allow super-speedy sly fitment after a race. Is that right?

:eek:

[Hotlavaaaa]

So, have I got this right - it's not the fact it's a magnet, it is basically a 'shim' to reduce the distance the pedal goes down before hitting the car floor which means the gas is not wide open and will register less on the dyno?

The magnet bit is just to allow super-speedy sly fitment after a race. Is that right?

:eek:

Makes sense. If they're so worried about NASCAR finding out how much power they're making is it possible that the power is coming from something illegal too? Just the conspiracy theorist in me thinking out loud.

[Sparky1329]

This is big.


Gibbs Penalties Announced: NASCAR announced that the #18 and #20 teams in the Nationwide Series have been penalized due to rule violations discovered by NASCAR inspectors prior to post-race testing on the chassis dynamometer Aug. 16 at Michigan International Speedway.

Both the #18 and # 20 cars were found to be in violation of Sections 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 8-9 (competitive analysis - from time to time, NASCAR may determine, in the interest of competition, that it is necessary or appropriate to undertake an analysis of the performance capabilities of a car, car part, component or equipment. The Competitor shall take whatever steps are requested by NASCAR Officials for this purpose. NASCAR also has the right to seal or impound cars, car parts, components and/or equipment for this purpose); 12-4-Q (1): (car, car parts, components and/or equipment used that do not conform to NASCAR rules, detailed in Section 20A of the 2008 NASCAR Rule Book, or has not been approved by NASCAR prior to the event, or is not required for the normal functional operation of the race car, or has been altered to detract from or compromise its integrity or effectiveness, whether operational or not); 12-4-K: (when NASCAR Officials mandate inspection during the Event, if any car, car parts, components, and/or equipment which have been used in the Event are taken from the racing premises without permission of a NASCAR Official, or are tampered with by any member of the team or anyone associated with the team: Magnetic spacer attached under the gas pedal with the intent of compromising the chassis dynamometer test). Both of the drivers - Joey Logano of the #18 and Tony Stewart of the #20 - have been penalized with the loss of 150 championship driver points and placed on NASCAR probation until Dec. 31, 2008. Joe Gibbs, owner of both of the cars, has likewise been penalized 150 championship owner points for each of those entries.

Both crew chiefs - Jason Ratcliff of the #18 and Dave Rogers of the #20 - have been fined $50,000 and indefinitely suspended from NASCAR.

From the No. 18 team, car chief Dorian Thorsen; engine tuner Michael Johnson; and crew member Toby Bigelow have been placed on indefinite suspension from NASCAR. From the #20 team, car chief Richard Bray and engine tuner Dan Bajek have been indefinitely suspended from NASCAR.

In addition, the entire # 18 and No. 20 Nationwide Series teams have been placed on NASCAR probation until Dec. 31, 2008.(NASCAR PR)(8-20-2008)

[harvick#1]

IMO, all of them should never have a job again in Nascar.

although I don't know why Stewart and Lagano are placed on probation

[harvick#1]

JGR's response and their actions being taken on the men at fault

http://www.thatsracin.com/news/story/17651.html

[carracing]

IMO, all of them should never have a job again in Nascar.

although I don't know why Stewart and Lagano are placed on probation

Agreed 100% - and if the drivers didn't know what the crew had done to the cars, I agree there as well - no need to place them on probation.

Pretty ironic that 1) it was Tony's last Nationwide Series race; and 2) that Kyle wasn't in the #18. I know they moved Logano-the-wonder-boy up, but it would've been nice to see Baby Busch get slapped for once - lol

[Sparky1329]

JGR's response and their actions being taken on the men at fault

http://www.thatsracin.com/news/story/17651.html

I don't know how much crew chiefs earn but this will hurt in a very big way. I'm hearing some pink slips could be involved as well.

[RaceFanStan]

The magnets were added to the cars AFTER the race was over ...
the guilty party(s) should face the charges of making illegal modifications ...
however the drivers did their job during the race & the race was OVER ...
the drivers should not be penalized for something someone on the crew(s) did AFTER the race :!:

I find it hilarious that the Nationwide Series Joe Gibbs Racing #20 still leads the NNS Owners Points. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/evil.gif

[Sparky1329]

I don't think the drivers should be penalized either, Stan. I hope NASCAR makes some consideration for the fact that the drivers handed off the cars to crew members who had the time and opportunity to add the magnets before taking the cars to the dyno test.

From what I understand a NASCAR inspector accompanies every car to the post-race inspection. I'd like to know at what point the inspector hands the car off to crew members prior to the dyno test and why do they.

[jslone]

I am not e penalties surprised at the harshness of the penalties but did not like the fact the drivers got them as well.Now were they in the car when the inspectors did their job?Who knows.Me thinks that the coach wll fire all or most of the guilty parties involved,according to him,if and when they do their own discipline.Now I hope Childress and Roush well shut the hell up.

[jslone]

some of you were wondering why the drivers got penalties,here is 1 answer,they know how far a pedal goes to the floor,dont tell me they dont,if a magnet of there to restrict movement,the driver should feel it.

[Copse]

some of you were wondering why the drivers got penalties,here is 1 answer,they know how far a pedal goes to the floor,dont tell me they dont,if a magnet of there to restrict movement,the driver should feel it.

Yes, they probably should. But it isn't the drivers running the car on the dyno, is it? I would assume it's a NASCAR official. The magnets/spacers were only added after the race, before the NASCAR inspection.

[e2mtt]

The magnets were added to the cars AFTER the race was over ...
the guilty party(s) should face the charges of making illegal modifications ...
however the drivers did their job during the race & the race was OVER ...
the drivers should not be penalized for something someone on the crew(s) did AFTER the race :!:
...

Because penalizing the drivers is the only way a penalty really counts for anything. Who cares about fines & owner points penalties if the driver is still in it to win it.

By the way, this is a HUGE infraction by Gibbs, and does cast suspicion on their extremely succesful Toyota Cup program as well.

[Old3Fan]

some of you were wondering why the drivers got penalties,here is 1 answer,they know how far a pedal goes to the floor,dont tell me they dont,if a magnet of there to restrict movement,the driver should feel it.

And if he could feel it he would be p----d off big time. Dream up another answer.

[Old3Fan]

BTW Toyota has a new incentive to purchase a new car. When you sign the contract you get a free magnet to place under your cars accelerator to conserve fuel.

[RaceFanStan]

BTW Toyota has a new incentive to purchase a new car.
When you sign the contract you get a free magnet to place under your cars accelerator to conserve fuel.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[jslone]

And if he could feel it he would be p----d off big time. Dream up another answer.
okay then,who does the dyno test after the races?Is it the driver or one of the crew?

[colinspooky]

talk about an incredibly crude way of cheating too. Just having the right size magnets available shows intent to cheat, which is sad.
But surely there has to be a cleverer way to restrict the carb opening? That little 'stop' where the magnet was fixed to could be made to be adjustable in some hidden way rather than sticking something to it.

[RaceFanStan]

The magnets were not an elaborate plan of deception ...
they were a ploy to prevent showing the full horsepower the Gibbs' Toyota engines are producing ...
they stuck the magnets to the floorboards of the Nationwide cars BEFORE they were to be tested ...
(however the magnets were added AFTER the race)
it was a haphazard plan & it depended on the inspectors not doing their jobs properly ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

the guilty parties hoped that the inspectors would overlook the magnets ...
there should have been no surprise to them when the magnets were discovered ...
the NASCAR inspectors are very capable people & take their duties seriously ...
sticking the magnets to the floorboards was a very stupid thing for the guilty parties to do ... http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/smilies/roll_eyes.gif

Joe Gibbs Racing has now been tainted & they are now being cast as cheaters ...
the results that Joe Gibbs Racing has achieved with ALL of their Toyotas now comes into question ...
it also casts the Nationwide Series & NASCAR in a bad light, I fear the ripple effect isn't over. :s

[jslone]

hate to play spoiler on this but what wouod happen if Jeffy or JJ got caught cheating again,JJ was caught a couple of years ago if memory serves right,does that make his team and Chad cheaters for life?I mean if a team gets caught cheating then so be it,the team pays the price.I do wonder though how many Nascar teams have been cuaght cheating in both levels.And show me a team that has yet to be cuaght in either Sprint level or Nationwide level.

[Vez]

http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/bg/09/03/jlogano.tstewart.penalties.overturned/index.html

[carracing]

http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/bg/09/03/jlogano.tstewart.penalties.overturned/index.html

GOOD NEWS - glad to hear it. Gibbs should be taking the blame here, not the drivers.

:D

[Old3Fan]

okay then,who does the dyno test after the races?Is it the driver or one of the crew?

Nascar does the dyno I think. And BTW if the driver could feel the magnet there under the gas pedal he would know that he would not be going as fast as he should be going and he would get anyone fired if he knew who it was. The magnet was applied after the race and before the Nascar inspection I would guess. JGR got off easy on the penalties. I would have shut the whole team down for a minimun of 5 races and if it was a second penalty of the same type, permanent banning from the series.