It's time to screw Russia over

[jim mcglinchey]

Aid in return for deploying US missiles.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Just keep on being nice to Russians and see them appreciate it:

"David Miliband four-letter abuse from Russian foreign minister"

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/andrew_porter/blog/2008/09/09/david_miliband_fourletter_abuse_from_russian_forei gn_minister

[Hondo]

I think one has to draw the line somewhere. More important, surely, is whether the likes of Quebec, Scotland, Corsica, etc are actually being disadvantaged by being part of the countries to whom they belong.


From the outside, looking in, it does seem that everyone in Europe and Africa with more than 2 acres of land thinks they ought to be their own country.

[janneppi]

Fiero 5.7 , just wait a couple hundred years and some of your your bigger states that can manage on their own will want to leave the union as some sense of nationalist feelings begin to form. ;)

[Hondo]

Don't have to wait. A bunch of them tried it legally in the 1860's and more than a few would leave now if they could. I believe Texas can still "legally" leave the United States and or separate into 4 states. Of course, it would never be allowed.

[Eki]

Palin wants war with Russia:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/11/palin.abc/index.html

The interview comes just over a month after Russian troops invaded Georgia in support of separatist governments in two Georgian territories -- a step that led to widespread condemnation from the West and a tit-for-tat freeze in Russia-NATO ties.

"We have got to show the support, in this case, for Georgia. The support that we can show is economic sanctions perhaps against Russia, if this is what it leads to," she said.

"It doesn't have to lead to war and it doesn't have to lead, as I said, to a Cold War," Palin said, "but economic sanctions, diplomatic pressure, again, counting on our allies to help us do that in this mission of keeping our eye on Russia and [Russian Prime Minister Vladimir] Putin and some of his desire to control and to control much more than smaller democratic countries."
Don't Miss

When Gibson pointed out that NATO membership would require the U.S. to come to Georgia's aid in case of war, Palin said: "Perhaps so."

[Daniel]

Palin want war.

and at the end it says "perhaps so"

Nice bit of non-journalism.

[Hondo]

I missed where she said she wanted war with Russia.

[Eki]

I missed where she said she wanted war with Russia.
It was earlier in the article:

"Palin said she supported NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia -- a move Russia strongly opposes. "

The Russians could interpret that in the way that she wants war with Russia. At least she's hostile towards Russia, no matter how you interpret that.

[Daniel]

It was earlier in the article:

"Palin said she supported NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia -- a move Russia strongly opposes. "

The Russians could interpret that in the way that she wants war with Russia. At least she's hostile towards Russia, no matter how you interpret that.
I'm still missing the part where she says she wants war with Russia.

[Eki]

I'm still missing the part where she says she wants war with Russia.

Look between the lines.

[Daniel]

Look between the lines.
Still can't see it :confused:

[Drew]

Assumptions assumptions assumptions..

[TOgoFASTER]

Look between the lines.

I'm still trying to see if there is anything between her ears.
So far her 'image' doesn't seem to be holding water.

[Eki]

Sarah Palin believes the Iraq war is God's plan. Who knows what other wars she's plotting with God. If some Mullah said that the war against the US and Israel is God's plan, he'd be in Guantanamo Bay in no time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-btXPfhGs

[Daniel]

Sarah Palin believes the Iraq war is God's plan. Who knows what other wars she's plotting with God. If some Mullah said that the war against the US and Israel is God's plan, he'd be in Guantanamo Bay in no time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-btXPfhGs
Might be news to you Eki but Iraq and Russia are totally different places :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia

[Eki]

Might be news to you Eki but Iraq and Russia are totally different places :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
It's not news to me, but how do you know God doesn't hate Russia as much as he hated Iraq? After he has turned gays straight, he might tell Palin to invade Russia.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/08/1360508.aspx

"“Gov. Sarah Palin's church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer. ‘You'll be encouraged by the power of God's love and His desire to transform the lives of those impacted by homosexuality,’ according to the insert in the bulletin of the Wasilla Bible Church, where Palin has prayed for about six years. … Focus on the Family, a national Christian fundamentalist organization, is conducting the ‘Love Won Out’ Conference in Anchorage, about 30 miles from Wasilla."

Is this a petition??

I'm in :)

Thank God Russia doesnt have great cars to race in the HMSA Historic Modsports and Saloon Association events,that gives us the excuse of putting two fingers up to them. :D

[gadjo_dilo]

It's not news to me, but how do you know God doesn't hate Russia as much as he hated Iraq?

There could be 2 reasons:
1. Russia is a christian country, Iraq is not.
2. Russians are very faithful. I bet they have a special relation with God.
:laugh:

[Tomi]

Sarah Palin believes the Iraq war is God's plan. Who knows what other wars she's plotting with God. If some Mullah said that the war against the US and Israel is God's plan, he'd be in Guantanamo Bay in no time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-btXPfhGs

Makes one wonder how many rocks they have to turn until they find people like this.

[Rudy Tamasz]

We're talking Russia and then comes Eki and turns this into yet another U.S. bashing thread. Somebody clearly needs to get a life. :/

[Azumanga Davo]

There could be 2 reasons:
1. Russia is a christian country, Iraq is not.
2. Russians are very faithful. I bet they have a special relation with God.
:laugh:

Maybe God doesn't want to be poisoned...

Er, um, doing a great job, Mr Vladimir sir... :s

[Eki]

We're talking Russia and then comes Eki and turns this into yet another U.S. bashing thread. Somebody clearly needs to get a life. :/
Is life bashing Russia then?

We haven't screwed over the US yet, IMO, we could do that before moving on to Russia. The US hasn't paid yet for mooning the UN and the World in 2003.

[Daniel]

Is life bashing Russia then?

We haven't screwed over the US yet, IMO, we could do that before moving on to Russia. The US hasn't paid yet for mooning the UN and the World in 2003.
yeah... the fact that the US economy is screwed doesn't hurt them at all?

[leopard]

Maybe God doesn't want to be poisoned...

The genuine one never hate certain people nor treat them, Russia, Iraq differently ...

[gadjo_dilo]

The genuine one never hate certain people nor treat them, Russia, Iraq differently ...

He never hates but sometimes he punishes ( in a fatherly way :laugh: ) some people. See the Sodoma and Gomora episode..... :laugh:

[Rudy Tamasz]

Is life bashing Russia then?

We haven't screwed over the US yet, IMO, we could do that before moving on to Russia. The US hasn't paid yet for mooning the UN and the World in 2003.

You have a chance to do so in a dedicated thread, well, if you can do that. There's no need to litter other threads.

[Daniel]

You have a chance to do so in a dedicated thread, well, if you can do that. There's no need to litter other threads.
Thanks Rudy :) For me it's come to the point where I hope the US does well just to piss Eki off......

[Drew]

Thanks Rudy :) For me it's come to the point where I hope the US does well just to piss Eki off......

Anybody would think that US government policy for the last 100 years was directly just to piss off Eki :p :

[schmenke]

...
1. Russia is a christian country, ...

Last I checked Russia is mostly Orthodox, with quite a large population of both Jews and Muslims :mark:

[gadjo_dilo]

Last I checked Russia is mostly Orthodox, with quite a large population of both Jews and Muslims :mark:

Quod erat demonstrandum. Orthodoxes are christians.

[gloomyDAY]

Not this crap again...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/23/AR2008122302442.html

When is Europe going to stand up against an adversary?
Keep sitting on your hands and see what happens.

[Tomi]

Not this crap again...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/23/AR2008122302442.html

When is Europe going to stand up against an adversary?
Keep sitting on your hands and see what happens.

Looks like the germans might be short on gas soon.

[DonJippo]

When is Europe going to stand up against an adversary? Keep sitting on your hands and see what happens.

What are you proposing Europe should do?

[markabilly]

What are you proposing Europe should do?

They will do the usual once again, oh please usa save us again, so we can live to bash you again....... :bigcry:




Well Putin, Stalin, :love: the difference is ----Putin has not started starving them again, but it will not be long now......

oh please can we have some anti-missiles.... :rotflmao:

[Tomi]

They will do the usual once again, oh please usa save us again, so we can live to bash you again....... :bigcry:




Well Putin, Stalin, :love: the difference is ----Putin has not started starving them again, but it will not be long now......

oh please can we have some anti-missiles.... :rotflmao:

or maybe ask them who screw up the economy to pay the bill.

[Roamy]

Beware of a man carrying a bag of Mortgages!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Eki]

What are you proposing Europe should do?
Maybe pay the 2 billion debt for Ukraine?

It's funny that the US puts sanctions on countries like Cuba, Iran and North Korea for whatever reason and then if Russia puts sanctions on Ukraine for unpaid debts, it's the Great Satan. You don't pay your gas bill, your gas will be cut, doesn't it work like that also in the US?

[Roamy]

yea and what really pisses me off is the tax and ban on cuban cigars. just think if you could buy a cohiba robusto for 3 bucks

[Tomi]

yea and what really pisses me off is the tax and ban on cuban cigars. just think if you could buy a cohiba robusto for 3 bucks

why dont you buy haitian or dominican cigars, just as good and the price is not bad either.

[Camelopard]

Russia has oil and gas, the Ukraine wants oil and gas, in this capitalist society of ours I believe the term is 'user pays'.

So what is there to screw 'Russia over' about, for being good capitalists?

[markabilly]

Maybe pay the 2 billion debt for Ukraine?

It's funny that the US puts sanctions on countries like Cuba, Iran and North Korea for whatever reason and then if Russia puts sanctions on Ukraine for unpaid debts, it's the Great Satan. You don't pay your gas bill, your gas will be cut, doesn't it work like that also in the US?


You mean Great Stalin....Go ahead, laugh and use the internet while u can, u will be next.....

[markabilly]

[quote="Camelopard"]Russia has oil and gas, the Ukraine wants oil and gas, in this capitalist society of ours I believe the term is 'user pays'.

quote]


As your hero Chamberlain said, "peace in our time", when he sold out the Czechs
But he did get peace, for about five months....

[Camelopard]

As your hero Chamberlain said, "peace in our time", when he sold out the Czechs
But he did get peace, for about five months....

Ummm, chamberlain (he was a pom) isn't and never was my hero, I'm just making a point that the free market and free trade are fine as long as it is your rules that everyone plays by.

Seeing as you brought chamerlain into it, do I have to remind you of how much money US companies made by dealing with hitler in the thirties and forties?

[markabilly]

Ummm, chamberlain (he was a pom) isn't and never was my hero, I'm just making a point that the free market and free trade are fine as long as it is your rules that everyone plays by.

Seeing as you brought chamerlain into it, do I have to remind you of how much money US companies made by dealing with hitler in the thirties and forties?


U mean IBM whose german managers decided to sell their talents to Hitler, after the war started??
Or all those brits, including such as the parents of max mosley, celebrating weddings with Sir Adolf as the guest of honor??

[Camelopard]

just a quick search showed up these (it's probably all jewish propaganda) but makes for interesting reading!

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_06.htm

quote: "It was Henry Ford who in the 1930s built the Soviet Union's first modern automobile plant (located at Gorki) and which in the 50s and 60s produced the trucks used by the North Vietnamese to carry weapons and munitions for use against Americans. At about the same time, Henry Ford was also the most famous of Hitler's foreign backers, and he was rewarded in the 1930s for this long-lasting support with the highest Nazi decoration for foreigners."

"Although there is evidence that European plants owned by Wall Street interests were not bombed by the U.S. Air Force in World War II, this restriction apparently did not reach the British Bombing Command. In March 1942 the Royal Air Force bombed the Ford plant at Poissy, France."

Some more from http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/llt/51/pauwels.html

"In 1939, on the eve of the war, the chairman of Alfred P. Sloan, publicly justified doing business in Hitler's Germany by pointing to the highly profitable nature of GM's operations under the Third Reich. "

(Cited in Michael Dobbs, "Ford and GM Scrutinized for Alleged Nazi Collaboration," The Washington Post, 12 December 1998.)

"Even after Pearl Harbor, Ford retained its 52 per cent of the shares of Ford-Werke in Cologne, and GM remained Opel's sole proprietor. (Billstein et al., 74, and 141)"


"After the war, it would become customary in the West to claim that the unexpected Soviet success against Nazi Germany had been made possible because of massive American assistance, provided under the terms of a Lend-Lease agreement between Washington and Moscow, and that without this aid the Soviet Union would not have survived the Nazi attack. This claim is doubtful. First, American material assistance did not become meaningful before 1942, that is, long after the Soviets had single-handedly put an end to the progress made by the Wehrmacht and had launched their first counteroffensive. Second, American aid never represented more than four to five per cent of total Soviet wartime production, although it must be admitted that even such a slim margin may possibly prove crucial in a crisis situation. Third, the Soviets themselves cranked out all of the light and heavy high-quality weapons — such as the T-34 tank, probably the best tank of World War — that made their success against the Wehrmacht possible. 34 Finally, the much-publicized Lend-Lease aid to the was to a large extent neutralized — and arguably dwarfed — by the unofficial, discreet, but very important assistance provided by American corporate sources to the German enemies of the Soviets. In 1940 and 1941 American oil trusts increased the lucrative oil exports to Germany; large amounts delivered to Nazi Germany via neutral states. The American share of Germany's imports of vitally important oil for engine lubrication (Motorenöl) increased rapidly, from 44 per cent in July 1941 to 94 per cent in September 1941. Without US-supplied fuel, the German attack on the Soviet Union would not have been possible, according to the German historian Tobias Jersak, an authority in the field of American "fuel for the Führer." 35" 34 Clive Ponting, Armageddon: The Second World War (London 1995), 106; and Stephen E. Ambrose, Americans at War (New York 1998), 76–77.


35 Jersak, "Öl fürden Führer." Jersak used a "top secret" document produced by the Wehrmacht Reichsstelle für Mineralöl, now in the military section of the Bundesarchiv (Federal Archives), File RW 19/2694. See also Higham, Trading With the Enemy, 59–61.

"Even after Pearl Harbor, Ford retained its 52 per cent of the shares of Ford-Werke in Cologne, and remained Opel's sole proprietor. (Billstein et al., 74, and 141)"



"Other firms contracted strategic partnerships with German companies. Standard Oil of New Jersey — today's Exxon — developed intimate links with the German trust Farben. By the early 1930s, an élite of about twenty of the largest American corporations had a German connection including Du Pont, Union Carbide, Westinghouse, General Electric, Gilette, Goodrich, Singer, Eastman Kodak, Coca-Cola, IBM, and ITT. Finally, many American law firms, investment companies, and banks were deeply involved in America's investment offensive in Germany, among them the renowned Wall Street law firm Sullivan & Cromwell, and the banks J. P. Morgan and Dillon, Read and Company, as well as the Union Bank of New York, owned by Brown Brothers & Harriman. The Union Bank was intimately linked with the financial and industrial empire of German steel magnate Thyssen, whose financial support enabled Hitler to come to power. This bank was managed by Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W. Bush. Prescott Bush was allegedly also an eager supporter of Hitler, funnelled money to him via Thyssen, and in return made considerable profits by doing business with Nazi Germany; with the profits he launched his son, the later president, in the oil business. (Webster G. Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin, "The Hitler Project," chapter 2 in George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (Washington 1991). Available online at < http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm>.)

and so on....

[gloomyDAY]

I'm not sure if any of you read the article, but pipelines passing through Ukraine supply Europe with fuel. If there is a cut off that could have negative implications in Europe.


What are you proposing Europe should do?Stop bending over and getting shafted? Oil is being used as a tool of manipulation, so Europe should give Russia the finger, preferably the middle one.

Russia's currency has been devaluing at a steadfast pace.
I'm sure there has to be a way to see another collapse of the USSR.

[Eki]

You mean Great Stalin....Go ahead, laugh and use the internet while u can, u will be next.....
I don't think we owe Russia anything.

[DonJippo]

I'm not sure if any of you read the article, but pipelines passing through Ukraine supply Europe with fuel. If there is a cut off that could have negative implications in Europe.

Stop bending over and getting shafted? Oil is being used as a tool of manipulation, so Europe should give Russia the finger, preferably the middle one.

Russia's currency has been devaluing at a steadfast pace.
I'm sure there has to be a way to see another collapse of the USSR.


Are you sure you have understood what you read?

[Daniel]

I'm not sure if any of you read the article, but pipelines passing through Ukraine supply Europe with fuel. If there is a cut off that could have negative implications in Europe.

Stop bending over and getting shafted? Oil is being used as a tool of manipulation, so Europe should give Russia the finger, preferably the middle one.

Russia's currency has been devaluing at a steadfast pace.
I'm sure there has to be a way to see another collapse of the USSR.

Didn't I kinda cover this in my first post in this thread? :confused:

[ShiftingGears]

I do not want to see a return to power for Russia at all. Europe should act immediately to stop it happening.

[Roamy]

I do not want to see a return to power for Russia at all. Europe should act immediately to stop it happening.

Now here is a smart Euro :p

[gloomyDAY]

Are you sure you have understood what you read?Yes. Do you understand the threat posed by Russia to Finland?

I remember one of you Finn's didn't mind the fact that Russia would intrude into your airspace. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Don't sit around and wait for that to happen.

Also, Putin recently stated that cheap oil was a thing of the past. This reminds me of the energy scandal here in California with Enron. The State of California was almost ran into the ground through arbitrage. The same can happen to Europe because of Gazprom.


Didn't I kinda cover this in my first post in this thread? :confused: LOL! I guess you did. No one seems to listen.


I do not want to see a return to power for Russia at all. Europe should act immediately to stop it happening. :D

[Tomi]

Yes. Do you understand the threat posed by Russia to Finland?

I remember one of you Finn's didn't mind the fact that Russia would intrude into your airspace. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Don't sit around and wait for that to happen.

Also, Putin recently stated that cheap oil was a thing of the past. This reminds me of the energy scandal here in California with Enron. The State of California was almost ran into the ground through arbitrage. The same can happen to Europe because of Gazprom.

LOL! I guess you did. No one seems to listen.

:D

Boo terrorist!!!



How deep in the ground are you by now?

Since when has Putin been in charge of putting the price on oil?
Maybe you should be more worried about your own countrys intruding in foreign countries airspace, then maybe you dont have to wonder why,
when someone arrange again something simular that did happen in ny a few years ago.

[Camelopard]

Since when has Putin been in charge of putting the price on oil?
Maybe you should be more worried about your own countrys intruding in foreign countries airspace, then maybe you dont have to wonder why,
when someone arrange again something simular that did happen in ny a few years ago.

Exactly, well said.

No one seems to have replied to what I said, ie, Russia has the oil, Europe wants it, what's the problem?

[gloomyDAY]

Boo terrorist!!!



How deep in the ground are you by now? :confused:


Since when has Putin been in charge of putting the price on oil?
Maybe you should be more worried about your own countrys intruding in foreign countries airspace, then maybe you dont have to wonder why,
when someone arrange again something simular that did happen in ny a few years ago.Putin has a lot of influence on the price of oil. Have you not noticed that he's trying to setup another OPEC style cartel? Russia will have more power to influence the price of oil regardless of demand.


Exactly, well said.

No one seems to have replied to what I said, ie, Russia has the oil, Europe wants it, what's the problem?Europe keeps getting manipulated by Russia because of oil. Europe pays up and then Russia uses that money to take over former Soviet states. Does that not seem like a problem?

[Camelopard]

Europe keeps getting manipulated by Russia because of oil. Europe pays up and then Russia uses that money to take over former Soviet states. Does that not seem like a problem?

No different to how the US and their multinationals have over the years used their power to get what they want.

Free trade, free enterprise and no government intervention, isn't that what you guys want?

[Tomi]

:confused:

Putin has a lot of influence on the price of oil. Have you not noticed that he's trying to setup another OPEC style cartel? Russia will have more power to influence the price of oil regardless of demand.

Europe keeps getting manipulated by Russia because of oil. Europe pays up and then Russia uses that money to take over former Soviet states. Does that not seem like a problem?

Dont know about the OPEC style cartell, but the idea about a second market place for oil using some other currency than USD, i offcourse think is a good idea.
Most countrys has to buy their oil, everyone can not steal, still I think the price of oil is put somewhere else but in russia.

[Eki]

Now here is a smart Euro :p
An Australian Euro. It seems that the further away from Russia you are, the more you're afraid of them.

[ShiftingGears]

An Australian Euro. It seems that the further away from Russia you are, the more you're afraid of them.

Russia regaining power won't affect me, pal.

[ShiftingGears]

Now here is a smart Euro :p

Well, no more European than you are. :p :

[Mark in Oshawa]

16 Pages of Anti-Russian/Anti-American tripe. I knew there was a reason I was thinking I was missing something when I wasn't online much this last year.....

The Russians are just typical bullies with evil intentions. The Americans are accidental bullies with good intentions but maybe misguided notions of what everyone else wants. The Chinese will cheat/borrow/steal if they can but they are quite happy to make lots of money if you don't tell them how to run their country. It seems one cannot be a superpower without annoying someone somewhere.

Listen. As someone who has lived 45 miles from the US, I would rather have the Yanks misunderstand me than Vlad Putin and his puppet playing hardball with my gas and oil supply.......

[Eki]

Russia regaining power won't affect me, pal.
Why do you care then?

[Daniel]

Why do you care then?

Why do you care about what the US does in Iraq then? :rolleyes:

[Eki]

Why do you care about what the US does in Iraq then? :rolleyes:

Good point. I don't like "Superpowers" be they the US, Russia or someone else. I'd rather see the US go the same way as the Soviet Union, but since it doesn't look like doing that, I think the US at least needs a counter balance, be it Russia or someone else.

[Daniel]

Good point. I don't like "Superpowers" be they the US, Russia or someone else.

So alright for you to care but not others? :) How noble of you :up:

[Eki]

So alright for you to care but not others? :) How noble of you :up:
I didn't say it's not alright for thesquirrel to care, I just asked why does he care because it doesn't affect his immediate well-being.

[Roamy]

well it is not always about your "immediate" well being unless you are terminal without family !!

[Eki]

well it is not always about your "immediate" well being unless you are terminal without family !!
Yeah, but maybe we living nextdoor to the Russians know better when they are about to become dangerous than someone living 5000-10000 miles away from them. Right now they seem to be happy celebrating New Year in Finnish skiing-resorts and spending their money in our after Christmas sales. We'll tell you when they're about to become dangerous.

[gloomyDAY]

Yeah, but maybe we living nextdoor to the Russians know better when they are about to become dangerous than someone living 5000-10000 miles away from them. Right now they seem to be happy celebrating New Year in Finnish skiing-resorts and spending their money in our after Christmas sales. We'll tell you when they're about to become dangerous.Would this be before or after the air raid?

[Tomi]

Would this be before or after the air raid?

After the last one, but before the next one, It's understandable that you are so scared, but seriously you can sleep your nights without too much worrying.

[Roamy]

yep EKI - I don't give a sh!t my new deal is stay home and stay put until you have to press the big red button with the code on it!! Then press it firmly. We are going to have enough fun popping islam cell members who have smuggled their way in.

[ShiftingGears]

Why do you care then?

I dislike totalitarianism.

[Eki]

Would this be before or after the air raid?
Before. They didn't attack without a warning the last time, so I don't think they'll do it without a warning the next time either.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Just for your reference guys, Putin has personal stakes at oil/gas companies. Over the years of his presidency he became one of the richest men in Russia. Ditto for Sechin, Medvedev and his other cronies. Now go figure if they will hesitate for a second before screwing another country. Wasn't Georgia enough?

[Eki]

Just for your reference guys, Putin has personal stakes at oil/gas companies.
That's good news to Ukranians then. As long as they pay their gas bill, they'll be OK. I doubt Putin wants to kill his money maker.

[Garry Walker]

but since it doesn't look like doing that, I think the US at least needs a counter balance, be it Russia or someone else.
We had a fun 50 years of cold war. Is that what you want to see again?


Yeah, but maybe we living nextdoor to the Russians know better when they are about to become dangerous than someone living 5000-10000 miles away from them. Right now they seem to be happy celebrating New Year in Finnish skiing-resorts and spending their money in our after Christmas sales. We'll tell you when they're about to become dangerous.

Seems that despite living so close to russia, you still have no understanding of Russia and russians.

[Rudy Tamasz]

That's good news to Ukranians then. As long as they pay their gas bill, they'll be OK. I doubt Putin wants to kill his money maker.

It only means that Russians can use political and military methods in advancing the interests of their companies. BTW, every time there's the issue of Ukrainian gas debt to Russia Russians start speaking of paying that debt with national assets like oil pipes, strategically important companies etc. If it goes on like this, Eki, you may end up being surrounded with countries literally owned by Russians or you may end up being owned by Russians. Bright future, eh?

[Eki]

We had a fun 50 years of cold war. Is that what you want to see again?
No, like I said I'd want to see all "superpowers" disintegrate. But it still seems there's still one "superpower" forcing its own interests, ideology and beliefs on smaller and weaker countries, while mooning the UN, Geneva Convention and other international laws and treaties by letting its war criminals go free and making its own rules as it goes. I wouldn't like to see the Soviet Union return, but at least it could hamper some of the US schemes abroad, just like the US was able to hamper some Soviet schemes abroad.


Seems that despite living so close to russia, you still have no understanding of Russia and russians.
I think I do. What do you think makes you an expert on Russia and Russians?

[DonJippo]

It only means that Russians can use political and military methods in advancing the interests of their companies. BTW, every time there's the issue of Ukrainian gas debt to Russia Russians start speaking of paying that debt with national assets like oil pipes, strategically important companies etc. If it goes on like this, Eki, you may end up being surrounded with countries literally owned by Russians or you may end up being owned by Russians. Bright future, eh?

I'm sure there would not be such talks if Ukrainians would pay their debt on time...

[ShiftingGears]

That's good news to Ukranians then. As long as they pay their gas bill, they'll be OK. I doubt Putin wants to kill his money maker.

Russia can leave them high and dry whenever they please, due to Ukraines dependance on Russia's oil and gas. Good news.

[Rudy Tamasz]

I'm sure there would not be such talks if Ukrainians would pay their debt on time...

Ukrainians have only themselves to blame, I agree. I visit Ukraine about four times a year and their country is totally disfunctional. We are not talking Ukraine, though. We are talking Russia and Russians' willingness to screw everybody given half a chance.

[Tomi]

Russia can leave them high and dry whenever they please, due to Ukraines dependance on Russia's oil and gas. Good news.

On the gas maybe, the oil they can buy from everywhere else too, but im not sure enyone else would give it for free either.

[DonJippo]

Ukrainians have only themselves to blame, I agree. I visit Ukraine about four times a year and their country is totally disfunctional. We are not talking Ukraine, though.

Though some are using case Ukraine as a proof of Russia screwing others when as you say Ukrainians have only themselves to blame.


We are talking Russia and Russians' willingness to screw everybody given half a chance.

That is something I won't argue with you I've been dealing with them enough to have noticed that as well :dozey:

[Daniel]

I've not been to the Ukraine but from my week in Poland earlier this year Eastern Europe does seem a little like the Wild West :mark: I gather Poland is one of the better ones in the East as well.

[Tomi]

I gather Poland is one of the better ones in the East as well. Been to Poland many times, i think like you its one of the better, right behind Czech and Hungary.

[Eki]

We are talking Russia and Russians' willingness to screw everybody given half a chance.
That's why you shouldn't give them half a chance (just like you shouldn't give half a chance to the Americans). The Soviet Union owed Finland so much when it collapsed that it took the Russians until last year or so before they had paid all their debt.

[Roamy]

OMG we are going to lose Sarah Palin !! Well its ok if Cal AZ NM unite and we become Mexifornia

MOSCOW — For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media, who are interviewing him twice a day.

A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Professor Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.

"There's a 55-45 percent chance right now that disintegration will occur," says Panarin. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario — for Russia."

Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces — with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Me thinks the Russians will wait a while yet for the US to fall apart. America only looks confusing to those who refuse to see that that constant turmoil on the surface is America's strength. Of course...it is great fun for you guys to comment on...

[gadjo_dilo]

Europe keeps getting manipulated by Russia because of oil.

If I look back in history I see that Europe took into account Russia's point of view even when oil wasn't an important resource. :laugh:

[Rudy Tamasz]

That's why you shouldn't give them half a chance (just like you shouldn't give half a chance to the Americans). The Soviet Union owed Finland so much when it collapsed that it took the Russians until last year or so before they had paid all their debt.

Gotta agree with you on that one. Is that because of Xmas? :eek: