For all you who want Scott Speed to come over...

[MDS]

He's not coming, and he doesn't respect your series.


Speed — who calls the IRL IndyCar Series "not a challenge at all" and says he's "as good as" every other F1 driver — has been labeled arrogant by some critics.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2008-08-13-scott-speed_N.htm

[call_me_andrew]

There's no such thing as bad publicity.

[bravefish]

Pity ,would be good to see him come over to the IRL full of confidence only to be sent back to tintops with his tail between his legs - just like his F1 and A1GP efforts

Fast name, thats about it

Terribly overated.

[F1boat]

Whoa, I read the article. What an a$$.

[jimispeed]

Whoa, I read the article. What an a$$.

Love how you worded that!! Perfect!

[ShiftingGears]

He isn't the only F1 driver with a similar opinion about IndyCar.

[speeddurango]

Be arrogant or whatevery, you like it or not, what he said was right unfortunately, and AOWR has got a long way to go to get everything back to its glory days.

[MAX_THRUST]

This is from the man that got penalised for driving the wrong way round a track once I believe.

The IRL is a bigger challenge now than it has ever been. Yep I think Scott is arrogant, if he was so great in F1 why has no one picked him up, probably because he is arrogant and most of all not very good.

So you guys don't want him and neither do we..

[Komahawk]

He isn't the only F1 driver with a similar opinion about IndyCar.

Arrogance and ingnorance go in hand. It's easy sitting on the fence and running your mouth, knowing you'll never going to have to actually step up.

I liked how the article seems to focus more on his painted toenails and clothing preferences than on his racing abilities. Guess that puts things in perspective.

- "I've accomplished everything I wanted to in life!" LOL, scoring zero points in F1 and getting fired after an altercation with his boss?

- "I have no goals." Wow, just the type of guy a racing team needs and the fans like to cheer for.

- "IndyCar no challenge at all." Easy to say when cruising practically the same venues with circa 60 mph less speed.

- "I'm just as good as any F1 driver". Probably why all other teams over there couldn't wait to sign him.

- "I'm not just gonna sit around and make money, I'll quit when I stopped learning." Yea rite.



Seriously guys. If Scott Speed was available, does anybody really believe Roger Penske or Chip Ganassi would pick this nut over any of their established drivers? Come on. He'd probably wreck more cars than Marco and Graham combined, not counting those cars of other teams he'd collect.

[MDS]

This is from the man that got penalised for driving the wrong way round a track once I believe.

The IRL is a bigger challenge now than it has ever been. Yep I think Scott is arrogant, if he was so great in F1 why has no one picked him up, probably because he is arrogant and most of all not very good.

So you guys don't want him and neither do we..

He did have finish 3rd in GP2 in a field that included Nico Rosburg, Heiddki Kovalainen, E.J. Viso, Neel Jani, Nelson Piquet, and EJ Viso. He's will likely win the ARCA championship and he's already won a CTS race. So he has chops.

He failed in F-1 because he was with a bad team, and there is a lot of anti-American sentiment in Europe once you get outside of England. There was a lot of people who wanted Scott to fail.

[ShiftingGears]

Arrogance and ingnorance go in hand. It's easy sitting on the fence and running your mouth, knowing you'll never going to have to actually step up.

I suppose you are going to apply that statement to Michael Schumacher, who also made similar remarks about the challenge of IndyCar.

[Ranger]

Seriously guys. If Scott Speed was available, does anybody really believe Roger Penske or Chip Ganassi would pick this nut over any of their established drivers? Come on.

If there was a reason to replace one of those drivers, he would be #1 choice. His CV is better than any US-oriented driver since Montoya and Villeneuve.

[F1boat]

Sorry, Mallen, but to me zero poiints in F1 does not equal IRL or CCWS wins and titles.

[Ranger]

Sorry, Mallen, but to me zero poiints in F1 does not equal IRL or CCWS wins and titles.

True. If he had just one F1 point, on the other hand...

;)

[F1boat]

Matter of opinion, I guess. To me victories in IRL are more precious than several points in F1. But, matter of opinion.

[Ranger]

Matter of opinion, I guess. To me victories in IRL are more precious than several points in F1. But, matter of opinion.

...

Does anybody else want to have a go at interpreting my comment before I have to reveal the full degree of its inherent wit? :p :

[DBell]

Scott does have some talent, but his mouth is always going to be an issue. He can keep his pedicured blue toenails with the cabs, we already have Weldon. :p

[indycool]

Guess the IRL's "Big Three" teams could've signed him for big bucks if they wanted to. Guess if he was so marketable that sponsors couldn't resist him, he would have some backing for an IRL ride. But it's "no challenge." So he's a pretty decent ARCA and truck driver. ohhhhhhh-KAY.

[garyshell]

Guess the IRL's "Big Three" teams could've signed him for big bucks if they wanted to. Guess if he was so marketable that sponsors couldn't resist him, he would have some backing for an IRL ride. But it's "no challenge." So he's a pretty decent ARCA and truck driver. ohhhhhhh-KAY.


For that matter if the motormouth is sooooooooo freakin' good, someone in NASCAR would have picked him up by now. He wasn't even called on to be a road course ringer.

Yep, he is just as good as and of the other F1 drivers, in his dreams. I was sort of hoping he would come to the IRL, it would be nice to have someone to boo, like I used to do Mikey the Whiner. Gotta have a black hat cowboy to go with the white hat ones, don't ya know.

Gary

Gary

[bblocker68]

He's not coming, and he doesn't respect your series.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2008-08-13-scott-speed_N.htm


If this is "our" forum and not "yours", why are you here?

SS is either ignorant or arrogant.........maybe even a little of both. He must really think he is not accountable for anything that spills out of his pie hole.

Anyway, this is old news. The article has been already ripped apart on Speed and TF.

He's not coming, yippie. Not sure if the majority wants here in the first place. I stopped rooting for him after his GP2 antics. Goofy guys with painted toe nails are not really my thing, lol.

I'd rather have the other Red Bull driver back. Our friend, "The Focker" (AJ Allmendinger).

[-Helix-]

I suppose you are going to apply that statement to Michael Schumacher, who also made similar remarks about the challenge of IndyCar.

I don't remember him saying anything along the lines of IndyCar not being challenging, just that it was dangerous and insane.

Anyone that doesn't think a series that requires the running of superspeedways, mid-size, and short ovals, and road and street courses is challenging has obvious issues...

[Chris R]

I suppose you are going to apply that statement to Michael Schumacher, who also made similar remarks about the challenge of IndyCar.

Yeah, but with Schumacher at least you could see his point - Speed isn't Schumacher..... :D

[Chris R]

For what it is worth, not sure any of us should care what an F-1 flunky turned tin-top racer has say... especially when he never (to the best of my knowledge) set foot in any top-line AOWR car - let alone the current IRL car....

I would be somewhat bothered if (when??) Montoya, Hornish or Franchitti said/say such things - might even be bothered if Allmendinger said it - but not this turkey...

That being said - perception is 99% of reality and the IRL has to fix the perception if not the actual reality that it is an inferior career destination....

[weeflyonthewall]

.... the IRL has to fix the perception ..... that it is an inferior career destination....

Hard to battle the truth when drivers have to bring money. I was hoping they would adopt some of Champ Cars progress in that department.

[MDS]

If this is "our" forum and not "yours", why are you here?

I was clearly refering to a small group of people who keep pining away from Speed everytime I mention Red Bull.

[indycool]

Not to change the subject, weefly, but you did and exactly what progress did CC make in that area?

[garyshell]

Hard to battle the truth when drivers have to bring money. I was hoping they would adopt some of Champ Cars progress in that department.


Ride buyers exist in just about every form of racing these days. Even F1.

Gary

[ykiki]

Ride buyers exist in just about every form of racing these days. Even F1.

Gary

Always have. Back in the days before sponsorship there were lots of guys racing on a rich dad's dollars or a royal family's heritage. Nowadays it just happens to be a corporate sponsor's check.

[nigelred5]

Red Bull drivers don't drive anywhere Redbull doesn't allow them to drive. Redbull has a roadcourse dinger.

[ShiftingGears]

I don't remember him saying anything along the lines of IndyCar not being challenging, just that it was dangerous and insane.


He specifically said that he thought of IndyCar as a step down from F1.

[Ranger]

...

Does anybody else want to have a go at interpreting my comment before I have to reveal the full degree of its inherent wit? :p :

Gah. Fact of the matter is, Alex Zanardi scored just one point in his whole F1 career, went to CART, became an AOWR legend, went back to F1 and was rubbish against Ralf Schumacher. Proof positive that an average F1 driver (like Scott Speed) could win titles in top IRL/CART machinery.

[jso1985]

Yeah, but with Schumacher at least you could see his point - Speed isn't Schumacher..... :D

Exactly, for Schumacher, IndyCar certainly aren't much of a challenge.


He specifically said that he thought of IndyCar as a step down from F1.

newsflash Scott!!!! you're not part of F1 anymore! so you're already a step down(or two or three) driving in ARCA

[ShiftingGears]

newsflash Scott!!!! you're not part of F1 anymore! so you're already a step down(or two or three) driving in ARCA

As I've said, you've got to learn stock car oval racing somewhere. And that place isn't the sprint cup.

[F1boat]

Gah. Fact of the matter is, Alex Zanardi scored just one point in his whole F1 career, went to CART, became an AOWR legend, went back to F1 and was rubbish against Ralf Schumacher. Proof positive that an average F1 driver (like Scott Speed) could win titles in top IRL/CART machinery.

Mallen, in the same year F1 World Champion Damon Hill was also pathetic - only a year after his spectacular victory in the 1998 Belgiom GP. Obviously grooved tryes proved to be tough for some, including some excellent ones, as Hill and Zanardi.
Using your argument, obviously Sprint Cup is much stronger than F1 as Montoya struggles big time in it. Same about DTM, which saw Hakkinen being average and RS tragic.
BTW, I believe that F1 has better drivers than the IRL, but I wouldn't rate Speed, Friesacher or Sutil above Dixon, Wheldon or TK.

[Chris R]

Gah. Fact of the matter is, Alex Zanardi scored just one point in his whole F1 career, went to CART, became an AOWR legend, went back to F1 and was rubbish against Ralf Schumacher. Proof positive that an average F1 driver (like Scott Speed) could win titles in top IRL/CART machinery.

this goes back to another recent thread - there is a large component of F-1 that has a lot to do with attitude and not so much to do with pure skill... It is a much more mental "war" than AOWR because the Europeans take it so much more seriously...

Guys like Zanardi were great drivers - but not so much into the mentality of the F-1 game. Also, his cars in F-1 pretty much stunk....

That being said - the average F-1 driver is probably significantly better than the average IRL driver - but that could easily change in a year or two as it has gone back and forth in the past....

[Ranger]

Mallen, in the same year F1 World Champion Damon Hill was also pathetic - only a year after his spectacular victory in the 1998 Belgiom GP. Obviously grooved tryes proved to be tough for some, including some excellent ones, as Hill and Zanardi.
Grooved tyres (which were also used in 1998), had nothing to do with it. Hill, sadly, just ran out of motivation.


Using your argument, obviously Sprint Cup is much stronger than F1 as Montoya struggles big time in it. Same about DTM, which saw Hakkinen being average and RS tragic.
IndyCar and F1 (especially in the late 1990s) were pretty comparable, a comparison with 2-tonne, 4-speed dinosaurs that run on 95% ovals is not really appropriate.
Also, Montoya is ahead of his team-mate in the NASCAR standings. Ralf Schumacher is in 3-year-old machinery in DTM. Neither are being smashed by their team-mates like Zanardi did in 1999. Zanardi was also beaten by Johnny Herbert in Lotus 3 years before coming to IndyCar.


BTW, I believe that F1 has better drivers than the IRL, but I wouldn't rate Speed, Friesacher or Sutil above Dixon, Wheldon or TK.
Given the same equipment as those people I think Scott Speed would at least match them. That's just based on the fact that Zanardi, who wasn't the best driver in an average F1 team, became an AOWR legend in the space of three years.
Although as a rule of thumb, if you stick a driver into the best car in any series for more than a year and you're bound to get at least something in return.

[ShiftingGears]

but that could easily change in a year or two as it has gone back and forth in the past....

I completely disagree, because to get the best drivers, you need them seeing your series as the ultimate challenge, the pinnacle. And more often than not, you need the biggest paychecks.

I can say with certainty that the IndyCar series will definitely not be the pinnacle in the eyes of the drivers within the next 2 years. And nor will it offer the same money as a career in Formula One or NASCAR.



And that, is the rut IndyCar is stuck in.

[indycool]

Oh, money decides the drivers' talents? Come back, King Hiro.

[Ranger]

That being said - the average F-1 driver is probably significantly better than the average IRL driver - but that could easily change in a year or two as it has gone back and forth in the past....

Nup. The average F1 driver has always been significantly better than the average IRL driver.

[Chris R]

It is hard to argue about the salary issue and that will make it tough for the IRL to draw and maintina top line drivers relative to otehr series.. my 2 years is probably over optimistic - but my point was that AOWR has had a very comparable talent pool to F1 at many times over history and will again sometime....

As far as talent vs. F1 - we are really talking about something that there is no way to prove one way or the other AND we are pretty much comparing apples and pears - they are pretty similar but not the same and everyone likes one better than the other....

My personal opinion is that CART had as good or better drivers - on average - than F-1 through most of the 1980's and even into the early 1990's - hands down it has been F-1 since 1995/1996.....

Yes F-1 had two of its best during that time - but CART had 5-7 top drivers most of the time while F-1 had 2 to 4 top drivers at any given time.... the rest of the field in either series were pretty average in most respects and with the exception of a few flashes of brilliance....

Anyway - it does not matter - I can no more prove my point than you can prove yours - so we can respectfully disagree ;)

[F1boat]

Nup. The average F1 driver has always been significantly better than the average IRL driver.
Than the average IRL driver yes, but than the average Indy Car driver, I am not sure.
About your other arguments. I don't know about Hill's motivation. I know that he struggled big time in 1999 and was a former champion. So obviously the rule changes and the whole situation about the team can influence a driver.
About Alex, he was a rookie when Herbert bested him.
And about Speed I just disagree. He was average in F1 because he is average, not because F1 is so much greater. Check A1.
I repeat - I believe that F1 has probably the strongest grid, but I don't think that every single F1 driver is better than champions in other series.

[Ranger]

Than the average IRL driver yes, but than the average Indy Car driver, I am not sure. This bit is quite confusing...

About your other arguments. I don't know about Hill's motivation. I know that he struggled big time in 1999 and was a former champion. So obviously the rule changes and the whole situation about the team can influence a driver.There was no major rule changes between 1998 and 1999, during which time he just 'lost it'. Grooved tyres were introduced at the start of 1998.

About Alex, he was a rookie when Herbert bested him. No he wasn't - he'd made 6 starts in 1991 and 1992. Which isn't many... but it doesn't classify you anymore as a rookie.

And about Speed I just disagree. He was average in F1 because he is average, not because F1 is so much greater. Check A1.
I repeat - I believe that F1 has probably the strongest grid, but I don't think that every single F1 driver is better than champions in other series.
Neither. But it has been proven in the past that even average F1 drivers can sweep CART/Indycar given top machinery. Which was the point of the argument.
Ganassi or Penske wouldn't be disappointed if they put Scott Speed in one of their cars to replace one of their drivers (should that need arise).

[Chris R]

Neither. But it has been proven in the past that even average F1 drivers can sweep CART/Indycar given top machinery. Which was the point of the argument.
Ganassi or Penske wouldn't be disappointed if they put Scott Speed in one of their cars to replace one of their drivers (should that need arise).[/QUOTE]

There are a lot of drivers from a lot of series' that would do really well in a top flight car in any other series. You can bet that if you put Dixon, Castro-neves or Kanaan in Hamilton's ride they would do well just as he would in one of theirs.... You put Hamilton in the PCM car and he will not be winning races even if he does impress....

Big thing is, you know Hamilton would get a fair deal in an American team, you cannot say the same of an Indycar driver in an F-1 team.....

Also, Speed seems to have a pretty bad attitude - not sure he is the right former F-1 guy to be touting as a "would not disappoint" sort of driver....

[Ranger]

There are a lot of drivers from a lot of series' that would do really well in a top flight car in any other series. You can bet that if you put Dixon, Castro-neves or Kanaan in Hamilton's ride they would do well just as he would in one of theirs....


They are the top drivers in the IRL so that analogy is not comparable to Zanardi's move to CART in 1996. I'm pretty sure if you put someone like Danica Patrick or Oriol Servia in a top F1 car, they would get pretty swallowed.

[indycool]

Who cares? I'd just as soon have Danica Patrick and Oriol Servia than Scott Speed in the IRL.

[CARTDM15]

Who cares? I'd just as soon have Danica Patrick and Oriol Servia than Scott Speed in the IRL.
Your joking right? Patrick & Servia over Speed...Come on man

[F1boat]

I will too prefer Servia and Danica over Speed.

Mallen, I will try to answer to your post although I can't find the quote button, so it will be quite confusing.
When I said the thing about IRL and Indy Car, I tried to say that F-1 had a strongest grid that the Indy-racing league series in 1996. However, I am not sure that F1 drivers were always better than the Indy Car drivers before the split.
About the rule changes - there wasn't and still Hill struggled. So it can happen even to a world champion. What to say about driver who comes from a top-team from a different series? Let's not forget that JV came from CART few years earlier and easily dominated F1 for two years. Actually he had better success in F1 during 1996-7 period, than he had in Indycar in 1994-5. And yet in 1999 he scored big fat zero. Can happen to anyone in any sport. Depends on the car. Alex Zanardi himself was not spectacular in Mo Nunn racing as he was in Chip Ganassi racing.
However, I agree with you that I can imagine David Coulthard winning the IRL championship even now, while I can't see paul Tracy dominating F1 even with a McLaren.
So I agree that a F1 driver who is not champion can dominate Indycar while a driver who wasn't impressive in the Indycar series is unlikely to shock F1.

[markabilly]

Come on guys!!!Scottie not Speed is an interesting character who definetly marches to his own set of music (goofy, yeah a bit true)

much tougher than one might think with a nasty intestine problem that would have left others back home in bed---and when in F1, was doing one of the very best jobs of passing cars on the first lap.

For better or worse, probably the best American open wheel racer of the last couple of years (sorry Marco and Danica hahahaha)And look at SB in the same team.....

OTOH, his real problem was that he never did the best job of being a lap dog for commercial interests, except for Red Bull-the drink company, not the race team of tost and berger.....and even then, not all that great.

[F1boat]

The fact that Speed bested his ilness is admirable. Respect for this!

But I still think that Hornish jr. for example is much, much better.

[markabilly]

The fact that Speed bested his ilness is admirable. Respect for this!

But I still think that Hornish jr. for example is much, much better.


I would have liked to have seen Speed in a much better team, like on the mac team with LH. But that will never happen. SV is lucky to be going somewhere else, and I think if it were not for his german connections and his drives and testing for bEEMER, he would be sufferring the same fate as Speed, VL and probably "seabass" will suffer. Indeed, take hamilton without all of his connections with Mac, put him in that same team, and he probably would have been doomed to be a back of the pack runner, and certainly not in the chase for a WDC

As to Hornish, well if racing ovals were all that there is to it, yeah, perhaps, maybe. But otherwise, he was not racing the same competiton as Speed


Speed's worst problem is his tendency to be weird and the fact that he was an American in a series where being American is MOST uncool. And when it comes to marketing, F1 is a distant third place behind Nascar, IRL and such in the USA at best...
As to F1, he is very ulikley to be replaced anytime soon with another American...perhaps Marco with his Honda connections might make some decent noise if he ever goes, but with all the big dollars to be had here in terms of sponsors, and so forth, he might just stay here and make as much and probably far more..

[Placid]

Speed will be NASCAR bound for sure. Chances are that Red Bull Toyota will
provide him with a 3rd car wil Vickers and "Dingo". Look what Vickers did on Michigan. Even though he finished 7th, at least he got a maiden pole for Red Bull. He will do fine in NASCAR.

Speedcar series? Maybe.

[F1boat]

markabilty, maybe you are right. After all, a driver can improve his performances and if Speed was in competitive team, he would have done better. After all, Massa was considered wild and hopeless at the beginning. He proved that he is at least a race winner.

[DavePI2]

After sitting at michigan yesterday and watching that absurd event they have the nerve to call a race it is not too hard to figure what the challenge is that speed is talking about. It is trying to make a fake race look like a real one. Everyone could see that debris caution comming when busch was leading by 6 seconds and there was no way nascar was going to allow the last pit stop be under green under those conditions. So if speed or anyone else wants to sell their soul for wrastling on wheels, good ridance. The only thing nascar missed yesterday was the guy who received the morning call screwed it up. Give my any racing over those tintops anyday.

david