Close down Northern England

[Mark]

Apparently Liverpool, Sunderland and Bradford shut be abandoned and everyone should go and live in the south east.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7556937.stm

[GridGirl]

Well I can definately see why people would want to leave Bradford. :p

[gadjo_dilo]

Come on guys, leave your towns! The gipsies from eastern Europe are eager to occupy your homes. :laugh:

[Rudy Tamasz]

Truth needs to be told and people deserve to know it. If a town is beyond regeneration, it's a harsh reality and one has to face it. However, I do not think that government should assist with relocation. It should be a natural process and people should be moving at their own initiative and responsibility. Otherwise it will be yet another voilation of natural course of life accompanied by a huge waste of public money.

[Hazell B]

Okay, so the underclasses are starting to simply take over areas within towns and make them no-go for the law abiding - but isn't London facing a slight gang and murder problem of its own? :mark:

As for regeneration, it can't ever work while morons are allowed to run (and ruin) the streets stopping the rest of us enjoying it peacefully.

And no, I somehow don't think above ten families would want to move down south from their homes!

[BDunnell]

Truth needs to be told and people deserve to know it. If a town is beyond regeneration, it's a harsh reality and one has to face it. However, I do not think that government should assist with relocation. It should be a natural process and people should be moving at their own initiative and responsibility. Otherwise it will be yet another voilation of natural course of life accompanied by a huge waste of public money.

Have you ever been to any of the places mentioned recently? I would contend that nowhere is beyond some form of regeneration, even if it isn't obvious to the outside observer.

I hate to be so immediately dismissive of something, but while I'm sure there must be some worthwhile stuff in it, this report strikes me as absolute nonsense. Particularly simplistic is the notion, as suggested by its author on the radio this morning, that London could simply be expanded 'by a mile in each direction' to cope with the influx of people. Does he have no concern for our remaining green belt at all, or realise how the infrastructure of the south-east of England is already creaking under the strain of the existing populace?

[Daniel]

The problem is class.

Bring the lazy scummy idiots down to the South and they'll just have the very same effect on these other places. The problem is not the place, it's the people. A country will only ever be as great as it's underclasses and there was once a time where the underclasses were powering Britain onward but now they're just weighing it down.

[BDunnell]

The problem is class.

Bring the lazy scummy idiots down to the South and they'll just have the very same effect on these other places. The problem is not the place, it's the people. A country will only ever be as great as it's underclasses and there was once a time where the underclasses were powering Britain onward but now they're just weighing it down.

And we have quite enough such people in the south-east, thank you very much!

[Simmi]

As my nearest city I would be inclined to agree that Bradford is beyond all repair. Most people I know stay well away and go to Leeds which is a much nicer city. It's a shame because ideally you would like to feel pride in your home city, but when I drive through Bradford it just feels alien like it doesn't belong to me. I think everyone in the area is under no illusions as to why this is.

A mass migration is going a bit far but I for one do not plan to stick around here a moment longer then I have to.

[Daniel]

And we have quite enough such people in the south-east, thank you very much!

I didn't say there was a need to move ;) Like I said if people moved it would solve nothing at all, it would just move the problem

[MrJan]

Don't come to the South West, it's rubbish and you wouldn't like it here

[Dave B]

The problem is class.

Bring the lazy scummy idiots down to the South and they'll just have the very same effect on these other places.
Quite the opposite: these proposals are designed to make social mobility easier; the net effect will be those who are willing and able to move will desert their hometowns, leaving the poor and disaffected behind and making the problem even worse.

Those towns would become ghettos for the underclass; devoid of talented people, investment, potential, and hope.

In short, stupid idea.

[BDunnell]

Quite the opposite: these proposals are designed to make social mobility easier; the net effect will be those who are willing and able to move will desert their hometowns, leaving the poor and disaffected behind and making the problem even worse.

Those towns would become ghettos for the underclass; devoid of talented people, investment, potential, and hope.

Exactly. :up: Social mobility is all very well, and many take advantage of it, but it does have consequences that people working for right-wing think tanks who reckon that you can just add a bit more onto London don't seem to grasp.

[GridGirl]

If we assume people who lived in the deprived areas of the north live there through force rather than choice, how are they supposed to afford to live in the much more expensive south? Then again, why should I care. Us Midlander's, who also have our own deprived areas will just have top stay put as the Thinktank in question doesnt appear to have wasted a whole lot of money thinking of a solution for us. :p

If it came down to a personal choice, and indeed it might for me. I would much rather live in the North than the South. In fact I would rather live anywhere but the South East. :)

[Mark]

If we assume people who lived in the deprived areas of the north live there through force rather than choice, how are they supposed to afford to live in the much more expensive south? Then again, why should I care. Us Midlander's, who also have our own deprived areas will just have top stay put as the Thinktank in question doesnt appear to have wasted a whole lot of money thinking of a solution for us. :p

If it came down to a personal choice, and indeed it might for me. I would much rather live in the North than the South. In fact I would rather live anywhere but the South East. :)

Quite, Leeds / York kind of area isn't a bad place to be :p

[Daniel]

Quite the opposite: these proposals are designed to make social mobility easier; the net effect will be those who are willing and able to move will desert their hometowns, leaving the poor and disaffected behind and making the problem even worse.

Those towns would become ghettos for the underclass; devoid of talented people, investment, potential, and hope.

In short, stupid idea.

That's what I mean. The people are their own problem. Move them around and you just move the problem around.

Regeneration is a fine thing to talk about though. Can you actually regenerate people or are you just regenerating an area to the point where it becomes attractive for people of a higher class to move into?

I'll be the first to admit I have no ideas on how to improve the situation.

[SOD]

Thatcherism Part 2.

[BDunnell]

That's what I mean. The people are their own problem. Move them around and you just move the problem around.

Regeneration is a fine thing to talk about though. Can you actually regenerate people or are you just regenerating an area to the point where it becomes attractive for people of a higher class to move into?

You can, including through regeneration. In Berlin, where I studied urban regeneration, there are some areas where there is a very high immigrant (largely Turkish) population and quite a bit of depravation - low incomes, a bit of crime, poor housing, a lack of integration and so on. Efforts were made first of all to improve the housing, combined with social initiatives, and the positive effects started to occur. It's not easy but it is worthwhile, if you're imaginative about it. Another good example is the Broadwater Farm estate in London, which was a notorious trouble spot - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4308018.stm

[Drew]

Don't come to the South West, it's rubbish and you wouldn't like it here

Yeah it's rubbish here, don't come. I fear for my life everytime I have to leave the house and you thought knife crime was bad your way.

Beyond regeneration? What a load of crap, look at Grozny, Chechnia and tell me Bradford's beyond regeneration. Why do these think tanks exist anyway, they always seem to be spouting up rubbish.

[Daniel]

Yeah it's rubbish here, don't come. I fear for my life everytime I have to leave the house and you thought knife crime was bad your way.

Beyond regeneration? What a load of crap, look at Grozny, Chechnia and tell me Bradford's beyond regeneration. Why do these think tanks exist anyway, they always seem to be spouting up rubbish.
Take a trip to Rhyl and you'll see the definition of beyond regeneration

[GridGirl]

I am having take take a day off from swooning over footballers and take a trip to Llannelli tomorrrow. :( Daniel, is that as bad as Rhyl? Maybe there is a North South divide in Wales.

[Daniel]

I am having take take a day off from swooning over footballers and take a trip to Llannelli tomorrrow. :( Daniel, is that as bad as Rhyl? Maybe there is a North South divide in Wales.

Not seen much of South Wales :) North Wales is OK. Just some not so nice bits.

[Hazell B]

I'll be the first to admit I have no ideas on how to improve the situation.

Police. Simple enough, on the whole.

Seriously, the local council has regenerated my street in the past two months. We are all owner occupiers, yet they've asked us what we want and come along Sarah Beeny style with paintbrushes and new doors, all to make a matching line of Victorian terraces with a riverbank at the end. It's pretty damned good, and completely free to us.

However, with no police the scummy kids from council houses have arrived and written all over the clean painted walls ... until I went to the police and demanded an officer along the street every damned day. I got one (after a struggle) and the graffitti stopped, the litter stopped, the drunks stopped (or left after I got the dodgy neighbour to move) and everyone's happy.

Hard graft, but worth it. One CSPO a day, one gobby resident and an area is lovely again :up:

Can't work without a resident standing up for him or herself, but police made the real difference. Put them in newly regenterated precincts and they'd be better places - but it just never happens :(

[Daniel]

Police. Simple enough, on the whole.

Seriously, the local council has regenerated my street in the past two months. We are all owner occupiers, yet they've asked us what we want and come along Sarah Beeny style with paintbrushes and new doors, all to make a matching line of Victorian terraces with a riverbank at the end. It's pretty damned good, and completely free to us.

However, with no police the scummy kids from council houses have arrived and written all over the clean painted walls ... until I went to the police and demanded an officer along the street every damned day. I got one (after a struggle) and the graffitti stopped, the litter stopped, the drunks stopped (or left after I got the dodgy neighbour to move) and everyone's happy.

Hard graft, but worth it. One CSPO a day, one gobby resident and an area is lovely again :up:

Can't work without a resident standing up for him or herself, but police made the real difference. Put them in newly regenterated precincts and they'd be better places - but it just never happens :(
You stopped graffiti on a wall :p You didn't solve the problems of the UK ;)

[BDunnell]

Police. Simple enough, on the whole.

Seriously, the local council has regenerated my street in the past two months. We are all owner occupiers, yet they've asked us what we want and come along Sarah Beeny style with paintbrushes and new doors, all to make a matching line of Victorian terraces with a riverbank at the end. It's pretty damned good, and completely free to us.

However, with no police the scummy kids from council houses have arrived and written all over the clean painted walls ... until I went to the police and demanded an officer along the street every damned day. I got one (after a struggle) and the graffitti stopped, the litter stopped, the drunks stopped (or left after I got the dodgy neighbour to move) and everyone's happy.

Hard graft, but worth it. One CSPO a day, one gobby resident and an area is lovely again :up:

Can't work without a resident standing up for him or herself, but police made the real difference. Put them in newly regenterated precincts and they'd be better places - but it just never happens :(

I think your example there proves that different strategies work in different places. Community support officers are often great, and clearly helped do the job in your area, but in the area of Berlin I mentioned earlier policing wasn't really an issue (and I wouldn't say policing there is any more visible than anywhere I've known in the UK). I suppose it depends on the level of crime.

On the BBC link about Broadwater Farm that I posted earlier, it says that a special police unit was set up there, but ended up being closed down because crime had decreased so much. I would imagine that this was in part because of the other improvements and not just because of the policing that had been introduced. It's clearly a part of the equation, but not the complete answer.

[Hazell B]

You didn't solve the problems of the UK ;)

I didn't claim to :rolleyes:

[SOD]

Take a trip to Rhyl and you'll see the definition of beyond regeneration

I was in Rhyl in 1989 :)

[Daniel]

I was in Rhyl in 1989 :)
Well I've been told it's got a lot worse since then ;)

[MacRed]

Liverpool?? What would all the Nutty Irish Football fans do if there was no ferry from Dublin???

[V12]

I've lived in Leeds the past 4 or 5 years now, and while far from perfect (where is?) I'd take here over London any day of the week. I like living in a big city while still being able to walk from one end of town to the other, and being able to travel to work without relying on public transport or enduring endless gridlocks. And the fact I have a lower chance of being blown to pieces or stabbed while going about my daily business helps as well!

I will agree that neighbouring Bradford is best given a wide berth though having had to travel through there a few times. Of course I can't say why as I don't want the black helicopters after me!

[Mark]

enduring endless gridlocks.

Oh I don't know, I've driven into Leeds before :p



And the fact I have a lower chance of being blown to pieces or stabbed while going about my daily business helps as well!

The terrorists start out in Leeds tho ;)

PS. I'm staying in Leeds tonight so don't want to get blown to bits either :p

[GridGirl]

And the fact I have a lower chance of being blown to pieces or stabbed while going about my daily business helps as well!

I will agree that neighbouring Bradford is best given a wide berth though having had to travel through there a few times. Of course I can't say why as I don't want the black helicopters after me!

Seriously, have you never been to Dewsbury??? :s I agree with all your other points though. :)

Mark, if your staying at that travel Inn by the TGI's don't eat there, go to Maxi's chinese restraunt! Yummmy!

[V12]

Oh I don't know, I've driven into Leeds before :p


OK the traffic is pretty horrendous here too...but luckily I am able to walk to work in the city centre without having to get up at a ridiculous time. From everything I heard, wherever I lived in London that wouldn't be an option...


Seriously, have you never been to Dewsbury??? :s I agree with all your other points though. :)

Passed through there on the train a few times...wasn't tempted to get off :p :

At the end of the day though, I'm sure the south has it's fair share of 'holes as well, and I'm not just talking about areas of London either. My girlfriend lives in Luton and she hates it, went down to visit her and quickly got where she was coming from! I'm sure there's bound to be more as well!

[BTCC2]

Just so long as the people from Sunderland do not move to Newcastle I'll be fine.

[SOD]

Well I've been told it's got a lot worse since then ;)

The hoodlums from the South of England move there?

The Rhyl waterslide park, weeeee :burnout:

[ChickenMcNugget]

I'm living in the North right now for University, and of course fees and living costs dictate where I actually physically live in part, but of course, things change once that education "anchor" is eventually removed. I dare say that career-wise, there won't be much opportunity to actually really choose to stay anyway.