Kentucky Sellout Update

[Wilf]

6:15 and we are short 30K people, but traffic is still heavy trying to get in.

[Wilf]

Command to start engines and there is still an abundance of aluminum in attendance.

No traffic backup anymore.

[MDS]

But a track would never lie about being sold out would they?

No IRL track operator would ever resort to giving out massive amounts of free tickets and calling it a sell out.

[Wilf]

25 laps in an they might pull this sellout off

Marco is driving like the old man doesn't like him anymore.

[Wilf]

It's close to a sell out crowd frommy vantage point. Not every seat taken but turn four is the only area showing aluminum.

The crowd includes Bruton Smith and Eddie Gossage.

[Wilf]

uh oh the ladies are not playing nice

[Miatanut]

Command to start engines and there is still an abundance of aluminum in attendance.


25 laps in an they might pull this sellout off.


It's close to a sell out crowd frommy vantage point. Not every seat taken but turn four is the only area showing aluminum.


For me (part of the old watch qualifying in the rain crowd), this speaks volumes.

[MDS]

This race is pretty much what the IRL is known for, a yawn of an oval in front of an empty grandstand. I'm officially calling "BS" on the "Only aluminum in turn 4." The stands are clearly half full at best.

I'd say its about 45 percent full. Looks to me like the track owners pulled the old trick of their that of saying "It's going to be a sellout get your tickets now" when only about 40 percent of the seats were sold. Either that the ticket brokers they wholesaled a lot of the their seats to fell down on the job.

[indycool]

MDS, I don't think you were watching the same grandstand on TV as my set showed. And the indication is that Wilf was there. IMO, your post is CW-style, little-informed sour grapes.

[Alexamateo]

I don't know what race you watched, but I saw a race with plenty of action throughout the field, green flag passes for the lead by Marco and Meira, good racing off pit road, Helio trying to steal a race on fuel mileage only to be passed on the last turn of the last lap. It was a fun race.

[indycool]

Amen, Alex. Me too.

[MDS]

What I saw was when a leader got to the low line he was able to stay infront of a faster car for 30-40 laps. It looked good because someone was able to "Fly in formation" but it was really a lot lot of single file racing with a bit of fanning out in the turns.

[Miatanut]

MDS, I don't think you were watching the same grandstand on TV as my set showed. And the indication is that Wilf was there. IMO, your post is CW-style, little-informed sour grapes.

http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/build_photo.php?photo_id=74818&size=med&time=1.7461339365690947

[Chris R]

The race was decent - the crowd was far from a sellout. I admit the side by side running lap after lap is a little contrived - but I also have to admit I jump a little every time they show the cars move oh so close on the in car cameras....

[FormerFF]

I thought that was a very entertaining second half. I wish that Vitor had won, though.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I'm calling MDS the reincarnation of Sanguin and Hayden Fan ... his posts are good for entertainment value only.

[downtowndeco]

I'm calling MDS the reincarnation of Sanguin and Hayden Fan ... his posts are good for entertainment value only.

It was a decent race where the winner was determined on the last lap.

Glad MDS watched. I get a feeling he'll never be happy though unless he has 14 DP1's are following each other around parade style at about 35 mph at San Jose.

[Wilf]

It was a decent race where the winner was determined on the last lap.

Glad MDS watched. I get a feeling he'll never be happy though unless he has 14 DP1's are following each other around parade style at about 35 mph at San Jose.

They both have to be great touch typist because they aren't using their eyes for anything.

I like the idea of promoting a race by telling people in the market the day before the race that all of the tickets are sold out. I'm sure that improved the walkup.

I was concerned about some of their posts before, but no longer; they have demonstrated they don't value their credibility.

[SarahFan]

solid race....enjoyed it

but anyone claiming anything near full grandstands is full of BS

[SarahFan]

http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/build_photo.php?photo_id=74817&size=med&time=1.5988822761820582

http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/build_photo.php?photo_id=74818&size=med&time=0.026212082425200123

[garyshell]

This race is pretty much what the IRL is known for, a yawn of an oval in front of an empty grandstand. I'm officially calling "BS" on the "Only aluminum in turn 4." The stands are clearly half full at best.

I'd say its about 45 percent full. Looks to me like the track owners pulled the old trick of their that of saying "It's going to be a sellout get your tickets now" when only about 40 percent of the seats were sold. Either that the ticket brokers they wholesaled a lot of the their seats to fell down on the job.


Bull excrement, I just came from the race and WILF is correct only turn 4 had any significant signs of empty seats. I'd say the place was 75 to 80 percent full. What really surprised me was the number of folks who stuck around for the Indy lights race.

Gary

[garyshell]

This race is pretty much what the IRL is known for, a yawn of an oval in front of an empty grandstand. I'm officially calling "BS" on the "Only aluminum in turn 4." The stands are clearly half full at best.

I'd say its about 45 percent full. Looks to me like the track owners pulled the old trick of their that of saying "It's going to be a sellout get your tickets now" when only about 40 percent of the seats were sold. Either that the ticket brokers they wholesaled a lot of the their seats to fell down on the job.


Bull excrement, I just came from the race and WILF is correct only turn 4 had any signs of empty seats. I'd say the place was 80 to 90 percent full. What really surprised me was the number of folks who stuck around for the Indy lights race.

Gary

[CARTDM15]

It was a decent race where the winner was determined on the last lap.

Glad MDS watched. I get a feeling he'll never be happy though unless he has 14 DP1's are following each other around parade style at about 35 mph at San Jose.
At least driving around San Jose take some driving skill.The 100 percent throttle racing makes Ed Carpentier look good.

[indycool]

SKILL? At San Jose?

[AGRfan]

If you don't like the racing or anything else about, GO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. The new united Indycars series doesn't need fans like you. I was hoping once the two series got together , all the whining, bashing would stop. But i guess some poeple are bashing addicts and have made a lifestyle of it. I'm not saying that someone can not point out stuff that needs improving or stuff that is just awful. But to just bash and bash and bash. Do we really need to here the negitves all the time. We've heard them for 12 years. Please Stop!!!!!!!!!!!! I did say ,PLEASE!!!!!!

[SarahFan]

SKILL? At San Jose?


remember what this thread is about...staircases

http://www2.indystar.com/autofocus/photos/standard/2008/08/128554.jpg

[SarahFan]

If you don't like the racing or anything else about, GO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. The new united Indycars series doesn't need fans like you. I was hoping once the two series got together , all the whining, bashing would stop. But i guess some poeple are bashing addicts and have made a lifestyle of it. I'm not saying that someone can not point out stuff that needs improving or stuff that is just awful. But to just bash and bash and bash. Do we really need to here the negitves all the time. We've heard them for 12 years. Please Stop!!!!!!!!!!!! I did say ,PLEASE!!!!!!

I enjoyed the racing....very much

but this thread is about Kentucky and the IRL announceing a sellout and the stands only being 1/2 full

that's silly

[indycool]

Ken,

I'll answer you here as I answered you elsewhere. First, read Wilf's posts. He was there. Second, the pictures some have posted certainly indicate some empties throughout the place. They weren't that obvious on TV, which I watched, and I didn't turn the TV on primarily to check the crowd out, but to watch what was a good race.

Your statement that the IRL announced it as a sellout is inaccurate. The TRACK announced it as a sellout and announced in advance that it would sell SROs. The linked story below indicates the track announced 300 over capacity which indicates to me that there must've been 300 SROs.

How do we know, as another poster pointed out elsewhere, that the tickets weren't sold for the empties? I don't know and I submit that you don't know, either. Where did they put the SROs? I don't know and I submit that you don't, either.

http://nky.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=blog13&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&U=fc805abd-a7c7-4207-a644-4a19fa2812ed&plckPostId=Blog%3afc805abd-a7c7-4207-a644-4a19fa2812edPost%3ae8e8a4b2-ab50-44a9-b756-3a402e144fc8&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

[SarahFan]

Ken,

I'll answer you here as I answered you elsewhere. First, read Wilf's posts. He was there. Second, the pictures some have posted certainly indicate some empties throughout the place. They weren't that obvious on TV, which I watched, and I didn't turn the TV on primarily to check the crowd out, but to watch what was a good race.

Your statement that the IRL announced it as a sellout is inaccurate. The TRACK announced it as a sellout and announced in advance that it would sell SROs. The linked story below indicates the track announced 300 over capacity which indicates to me that there must've been 300 SROs.

How do we know, as another poster pointed out elsewhere, that the tickets weren't sold for the empties? I don't know and I submit that you don't know, either. Where did they put the SROs? I don't know and I submit that you don't, either.

http://nky.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=blog13&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&U=fc805abd-a7c7-4207-a644-4a19fa2812ed&plckPostId=Blog%3afc805abd-a7c7-4207-a644-4a19fa2812edPost%3ae8e8a4b2-ab50-44a9-b756-3a402e144fc8&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

and I'll answer you here as well..

I don't care if they were sold....to announce a sellout and have the stands 1/2 full is silly and looks bad

photo's and video don't lie.....posters sitting in stands have no vantage point

good racing.....I was at work, tivoed it....not that hard to hit rewind and watch the blue and yellow as the cars go by and zero actioon....so please don't act superior about 'watching' the racing...thats silly also

Indycar linked the story and had it on the front page of there website....

35k is a decent crowd....problem is everyone appears happy with it....why not strive for a true blue packed to gills sell out....rather than some silly 'package' deal

[indycool]

I acknowledge your high-tech approach with a rewind button to check attendance on tape.

Don't you think that Kentucky Speedway management was NOT "striving for" a set of buns on every board? Financially, they said they sold the tickets. I'd imagine whatever was done was proprietary enough that we'll never know.

So Indycar linked the story. Indycar did NOT announce the attendance data. Indycar PROBABLY doesn't know much more in the way of detail than we do here. The IRL doesn't price the tickets. The IRL doesn't sell the tickets. The IRL does not take in the money for the tickets. And what a promoter has to say about attendance is up to the promoter. Many (smart ones) don't announce anything about attendance.

[SarahFan]

I acknowledge your high-tech approach with a rewind button to check attendance on tape.

Don't you think that Kentucky Speedway management was NOT "striving for" a set of buns on every board? Financially, they said they sold the tickets. I'd imagine whatever was done was proprietary enough that we'll never know.

So Indycar linked the story. Indycar did NOT announce the attendance data. Indycar PROBABLY doesn't know much more in the way of detail than we do here. The IRL doesn't price the tickets. The IRL doesn't sell the tickets. The IRL does not take in the money for the tickets. And what a promoter has to say about attendance is up to the promoter. Many (smart ones) don't announce anything about attendance.

bottomline: stands were 1/2 full

the rest: just spin and staircases

[indycool]

Half-full. Link?

[SarahFan]

Half-full. Link?

photos don't lie

[SarahFan]

SnakePitLounge
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,290
I was there and the stands were barely half full. I had a nice view as I was located across the track in the camper area right after turn two.

^and clearly neither does SnakePitlounge

[MDS]

photos don't lie

Yeah, here's the thing. There are those who are so blindly loyal they will ignore the clear truth in favor of a lie. Unless you get a series of photographs showing every seat in the at track they won't believe you, they just won't. It kinda kills their credibility, and so as a result they attack the credibility of others who dare to point out the state of the Emperor's wardrobe.

[Chris R]

Were we all watching the same race and event?

1. The stands had a very notable amount of empty space. There is no point is arguing over the exact number - it was an very obvious amount.

2. Whoever announced it was a near sellout is also irrelevant (as long as it was an apparently credible source) - it was a supposedly credible source (the speedway) and the number of people who actually showed up relative to that announcement was an embarrassment.

3. I am not sure which is worse , not selling seats or "selling" them and having people not bother to come. Either way the lack of fans in the stands, relative to the announcement was very notable and in no way can be seen as "good".....

4. Lets not get all up in arms about the race either. It was fine. It was not great, it was not bad - certainly nothing worth getting all worked up one way or the other about..... It is not like your opinion is going to change someone's mind as to whether or not they liked the race.....

5. Overall, what this race did show to me is the both the speedway and the IRL need to do a better job if they want to "move to the next level" - the event was nothing to be ashamed of but it was also nothing to be proud of.....

[downtowndeco]

Have you guys never heard of a little ballyhoo? Pumping things up? Exaggerating a bit to get attention? It's been going on since Ben Hur first did a lap in a chariot. It's called promotion, PR. Fluff.

And it doesn't hurt anyone. It doesn't hurt anyone UNLESS you tell a city council that 160k people came in for the weekend street race when in reality you counted the same 28k locals 3x & then puffed the number up a bit more after that. And then you ask the city for money. And then you go out of business and are unable to fufill your contract. Then it hurts. Then it is wrong. But a little puffery? Give me a break. I think you giuys need to find a hobby.

Again. Good race last night. Good crowd. Thanks for watching. : )

[downtowndeco]

Were we all watching the same race and event?

1. The stands had a very notable amount of empty space. There is no point is arguing over the exact number - it was an very obvious amount.

2. Whoever announced it was a near sellout is also irrelevant (as long as it was an apparently credible source) - it was a supposedly credible source (the speedway) and the number of people who actually showed up relative to that announcement was an embarrassment.

3. I am not sure which is worse , not selling seats or "selling" them and having people not bother to come. Either way the lack of fans in the stands, relative to the announcement was very notable and in no way can be seen as "good".....

4. Lets not get all up in arms about the race either. It was fine. It was not great, it was not bad - certainly nothing worth getting all worked up one way or the other about..... It is not like your opinion is going to change someone's mind as to whether or not they liked the race.....

5. Overall, what this race did show to me is the both the speedway and the IRL need to do a better job if they want to "move to the next level" - the event was nothing to be ashamed of but it was also nothing to be proud of.....


The IRL got paid. The track got paid. The fans in the stands were standing and cheering at the finish. A good time was had by one and all. Why don't you leave it at that?

[indycool]

Amen.

[SarahFan]

The IRL got paid. The track got paid. The fans in the stands were standing and cheering at the finish. A good time was had by one and all. Why don't you leave it at that?

why can't you honestly discuss this biz aspect of the sport

[SarahFan]

Amen.

staircases

[Chris R]

The IRL got paid. The track got paid. The fans in the stands were standing and cheering at the finish. A good time was had by one and all. Why don't you leave it at that?

uh - me??? why don't you go ahead and give that same advice to nearly everyone who has posted here - oh, and by the way - this IS my HOBBY.....

Frankly I am fine with what your last post - a goo time was had by all and everyone got paid (I assume). I do have an issue that there are several folks who seem to think that both the race and crowd was terrible and several who want to deny that it was not a perfect event - it was NEITHER. It was a decent race and a decent crowd - nothing to write home about one way or the other....

What transpired at a poorly run series that is now defunct is not any more relevant to this conversation than the actual seat count at Indy. I, for one, realize that attendance figures are typically over-stated and I do not appreciate it no matter who does it ..... One would also hope that the powers that be might learn from the past - inflated attendance figures clearly did not help CCWS........

The point of this thread is that the announcement and the reality were obviously different - take away the (very un-necessary)announcement and this all is a non-issue....

[downtowndeco]

why can't you honestly discuss this biz aspect of the sport

What part of my statement is untrue?

"The IRL got paid. The track got paid. The fans in the stands were standing and cheering at the finish."

[SarahFan]

What part of my statement is untrue?

"The IRL got paid. The track got paid. The fans in the stands were standing and cheering at the finish."

your blindly accepting a claim of 'sold-out' when the stands were clearly 1/2 full


that's dishonest IMO....

[garyshell]

your blindly accepting a claim of 'sold-out' when the stands were clearly 1/2 full


that's dishonest IMO....


It was not a full house, but it was more than 1/2 full. The photos I have seen thus far seem to be hand picked to back the claim of 50%, but there were also sections that were totally filled. I am still guessing it was closer to 75% than 50%.

But nonetheless that does NOT mean it was not sold out. There is a very big difference between filling the house and selling out the house.

Gary

[downtowndeco]

your blindly accepting a claim of 'sold-out' when the stands were clearly 1/2 full


that's dishonest IMO....


I didn't mention one way or another whether the stands were full.

It was a bit of loud mouth promotion in the grand American tradition. What's next? Arguing whether Barnum & Bailly really do have " The Greatest Show on Earth"?. Starting a class action suit against Burger King over their "We have the best tasting Fries" claim? Contacting the Attorney General because NASCAR claims to the "THe Best Drivers in the World"?

Let it go already. Your bitterness is clouding your vision.

[CARTDM15]

If you don't like the racing or anything else about, GO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. The new united Indycars series doesn't need fans like you. I was hoping once the two series got together , all the whining, bashing would stop. But i guess some poeple are bashing addicts and have made a lifestyle of it. I'm not saying that someone can not point out stuff that needs improving or stuff that is just awful. But to just bash and bash and bash. Do we really need to here the negitves all the time. We've heard them for 12 years. Please Stop!!!!!!!!!!!! I did say ,PLEASE!!!!!!
I'm not bashing and I'm not whining.I watch the race last night and I will always prefer a street or road course race any day.There are Indycar fans out here that do not like the ovals.I will watch because of the drivers and teams but do not get excited about when track is flat out all the way around.Downtowndeco took a cheapshot at San Jose.So I defended a race that I would much rather see.

[CARTDM15]

SKILL? At San Jose?
Braking and turning

[SarahFan]

I didn't mention one way or another whether the stands were full.

It was a bit of loud mouth promotion in the grand American tradition. What's next? Arguing whether Barnum & Bailly really do have " The Greatest Show on Earth"?. Starting a class action suit against Burger King over their "We have the best tasting Fries" claim? Contacting the Attorney General because NASCAR claims to the "THe Best Drivers in the World"?

Let it go already. Your bitterness is clouding your vision.


I didn't start the thread...simply contributed to it

if your not interested in discussing the biz aspect of AOWR then I suggest you stick to just the 'racing' threads..

nothing wrong with that...

[SarahFan]

I, but there were also sections that were totally filled. I am still guessing it was closer to 75% than 50%.



Gary

post a couple or three (showing totally filled )just for reference

[SarahFan]

It was not a full house, but it was more than 1/2 full. The photos I have seen thus far seem to be hand picked to back the claim of 50%, but there were also sections that were totally filled. I am still guessing it was closer to 75% than 50%.

But nonetheless that does NOT mean it was not sold out. There is a very big difference between filling the house and selling out the house.

Gary


page 4...a 1/2 dozen photos showing the entire grandstands..

50% might just be generous

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Some who were forced to buy tickets don't show up and childish Indy fans jump at each others' throats. Arguing about stupidities whether it takes driving skills to drive around a challanging street circuit or race with 25 other cars at 350 kph. Congrats.

[indycool]

CARTTDM:

Over railroad tracks? At less than 100 mph average per lap?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

It was announced on the Yahoo IRL page that the race was an official sellout that is FACT.

It is also FACT that 2000 standing room only tickets were made available on race morning to accommodate any walk up traffic.

That being said, all those ticket holders DID NOT show up for this race for one reason or another. There were no cameras located in turn 4 showing how full turn 1 and the finish line seats were. There were, however many cameras showing vast open spaces in the turn 4 grandstands. I was extremely disappointed when the cars rolled off pit road and I could see A LOT of yellow and purple painted benches. However at the start of the race, the huge amount of waving white towels on the front stretch, turn 1, and the tower terrace lead me to conclude that despite a lot of no shows for turn 4, there was still a sizable crowd, probably on par with past attendance but no record breaker like we were lead to believe from the reports of a sell out.

Echoing previous posts, fantastic racing in front of a good, not great crowd.
My best guesstimate 57,000.....

[MDS]

It was announced on the Yahoo IRL page that the race was an official sellout that is FACT.

It is also FACT that 2000 standing room only tickets were made available on race morning to accommodate any walk up traffic.

Here's what probably really happened. They realized they overpriced the actuall interest and so in order to gin up some excitement they announced they were approaching a sellout when they clearly weren't. So then the claim there is a "Sellout" but there are still SRO tickets available, which are never sold at NASCAR races btw, which allowed them to save face by selling tickets without having to "officially" lower their prices while claming an "Sellout" too. They probably sold 30 percent of their tickets at face value, the rest were probably dead seats, giveaways and wholesaled on the cheap to ticket brokers.

Crowd was nowhere near capacity. The TV did several sweaping shots showing the entire grandstands. Lots of empty seats from turn four all the way to turn 1.

[garyshell]

page 4...a 1/2 dozen photos showing the entire grandstands..

50% might just be generous


Page 4???? Page 4 where? I want to take a look. When I walked around it looked more than half full. This was echoed by a friend in the media center where he had a better vantage point than I did.

I was sitting at the start finish line and the adjoining sections were filled. One row in front of me was empty but that was all I saw in that section. It was clear that there were lots of empty seats at both ends of the grandstands.

Gary

[Wilf]

Some who were forced to buy tickets don't show up and childish Indy fans jump at each others' throats. Arguing about stupidities whether it takes driving skills to drive around a challanging street circuit or race with 25 other cars at 350 kph. Congrats.

Sorry Doc.; Kentucky doesn't force their NASCAR fans to buy IRL tickets like Chicago and Kansas. A person can buy a ticket to a single race. Once Speedway Motorsports Inc. takes over later this year I would be willing to bet that will change.

However, I will agree with the rest of your post.

[Miatanut]

If you don't like the racing or anything else about, GO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. The new united Indycars series doesn't need fans like you. I was hoping once the two series got together , all the whining, bashing would stop. But i guess some poeple are bashing addicts and have made a lifestyle of it. I'm not saying that someone can not point out stuff that needs improving or stuff that is just awful. But to just bash and bash and bash. Do we really need to here the negitves all the time. We've heard them for 12 years. Please Stop!!!!!!!!!!!! I did say ,PLEASE!!!!!!

Could it be there is a large block of the former American openwheel fanbase that is still pretty *** off about what has happened the last few years?

In 1994 we were informed by Tony George (undoubtedly after exhaustive market analysis) that there was a huge un-met demand in the US for a top-level open wheel racing series focused on oval racing and that if CART didn't reverse their direction, he was going to start a series to meet that demand. CART didn't change direction and Tony did. At that time we had four or more different chassis designs in every race, four basic engines (with lesser funded teams running older versions) and two different tires. Lots of potential combinations. Ganassi was the only one who made all the best selections and reaped the benefits. We had other formerly top teams struggling.

In other words, we had great racing!

At the peak, we also had teams getting sent home before the main event, half the races of the season, because there wasn't enough room for them on the track.

After all these years, it's clear there was no burning demand for an all-oval racing series, we have a single chassis, a single engine, a single tire. We have most teams either living out of the owner's pockets or Tony George's. Nearly all the household name sponsors that helped create the big-time racing atmosphere are gone. Yesterday about 40% of the sold out tickets went to people who didn't show up because they were giveaways or sold very cheap. Folks didn't have the commitment to them they would have with a $35.00 ticket.

When we get back to four or more chassis, four or more engines, two tires, and household name sponsors are interested in sponsoring teams, so the teams can get back to being able to buy a new package every year to be competitive and there is enough team interest that there is 24 or more cars on the track, week in, week out, then we will be back where we were in 1994. We will be back where there is no need to complain or criticize. The stands at Kentucky will be packed to where folks will be in their seats half an hour before the race, so they know they can get to their seats, and nobody will have a space to put their beer down.

As it should be.

Until then, the folks wanting things back to the way they were before Tony George took the sport on a detour through the wilderness are going to have a hard time accepting what now passes for the top level of open wheel auto racing in the US.

[CARTDM15]

CARTTDM:

Over railroad tracks? At less than 100 mph average per lap?
Racing isn't always about speed.Its about out breaking some one it a tight turn, its about pressuring some into a mistake.Unlike last night where Dixon & Marco ran side by side for laps on end.Only being able to pass when they used a backmarker as a pick.You may love that but I never will, but I will always watch regardless where they race.

[downtowndeco]

Could it be there is a large block of the former American openwheel fanbase that is still pretty ***off about what has happened the last few years?


If you want to be unhappy today about what happened yesterday, be my guest. Those of us who are enjoying 26 OW cars on a variety or circuits this year will continue to do so. Good Day Sir. : )

[downtowndeco]

Racing isn't always about speed.Its about out breaking some one it a tight turn, its about pressuring some into a mistake.Unlike last night where Dixon & Marco ran side by side for laps on end.Only being able to pass when they used a backmarker as a pick.You may love that but I never will, but I will always watch regardless where they race.

You're right. And that's the beautiful thing about the schedule. It has a variety of circuits. Everyone should be happy.

[indycool]

Well, Miatanut, we'll just take it for granted that you're all POed and lovong in the past and you won't like it till you get what you want, so sayonara and we'll come find you if we think it might meet your esteemed approval again.

[SarahFan]

Page 4???? Page 4 where? I want to take a look. When I walked around it looked more than half full. This was echoed by a friend in the media center where he had a better vantage point than I did.

I was sitting at the start finish line and the adjoining sections were filled. One row in front of me was empty but that was all I saw in that section. It was clear that there were lots of empty seats at both ends of the grandstands.

Gary

Link to another forum deleted as it's against this forum"s rules.


my apologies gary.... I thought i had dropped a link in there...

Page 4 has some screen grabs during the race.....none of them support your claims...

if you could post a pic of a solidly full chunk of grandtsnads that would go along ways to supporting your claims....if not..well you know


T13 and snakepitlounges posts dont jive with yours either

[garyshell]

my apologies gary.... I thought i had dropped a link in there...

Page 4 has some screen grabs during the race.....none of them support your claims...

if you could post a pic of a solidly full chunk of grandtsnads that would go along ways to supporting your claims....if not..well you know


T13 and snakepitlounges posts dont jive with yours either

Thanks for the link. Both of the pit shots are pointing towards the two ends of the grandstands and as I said before there were a lot of empty seats at both ends. The third shot can't be identified as to where it is, except to say it is not in the central sections, which all have a large media center and spotters area above them.

I didn't take any pictures from my vantage point, but if I come across any of the central area I will post a link.

Found a good one, in the thread you sent me to.

http://homepage.mac.com/rotajohn/build_photo.jpg

This one encapsulates pretty much what I saw. The central section, right behind the start finish line, (where I was) was pretty well packed. It trailed off towards both ends with lots of empty seats at each end. Not a full house by any measure. But above 50%, in my estimation.

Gary

[SarahFan]

. But above 50%, in my estimation.

Gary

OK....

looks about 50% to me

[pitwall3]

Could it be there is a large block of the former American openwheel fanbase that is still pretty *** off about what has happened the last few years?

In 1994 we were informed by Tony George (undoubtedly after exhaustive market analysis) that there was a huge un-met demand in the US for a top-level open wheel racing series focused on oval racing and that if CART didn't reverse their direction, he was going to start a series to meet that demand. CART didn't change direction and Tony did. At that time we had four or more different chassis designs in every race, four basic engines (with lesser funded teams running older versions) and two different tires. Lots of potential combinations. Ganassi was the only one who made all the best selections and reaped the benefits. We had other formerly top teams struggling.

In other words, we had great racing!

At the peak, we also had teams getting sent home before the main event, half the races of the season, because there wasn't enough room for them on the track.

After all these years, it's clear there was no burning demand for an all-oval racing series, we have a single chassis, a single engine, a single tire. We have most teams either living out of the owner's pockets or Tony George's. Nearly all the household name sponsors that helped create the big-time racing atmosphere are gone. Yesterday about 40% of the sold out tickets went to people who didn't show up because they were giveaways or sold very cheap. Folks didn't have the commitment to them they would have with a $35.00 ticket.

When we get back to four or more chassis, four or more engines, two tires, and household name sponsors are interested in sponsoring teams, so the teams can get back to being able to buy a new package every year to be competitive and there is enough team interest that there is 24 or more cars on the track, week in, week out, then we will be back where we were in 1994. We will be back where there is no need to complain or criticize. The stands at Kentucky will be packed to where folks will be in their seats half an hour before the race, so they know they can get to their seats, and nobody will have a space to put their beer down.

As it should be.

Until then, the folks wanting things back to the way they were before Tony George took the sport on a detour through the wilderness are going to have a hard time accepting what now passes for the top level of open wheel auto racing in the US.

Great post. Right on the money!