Kicked Off Espn

[ChicagocrewIRL]

this is depressing as all hell.... does Versus have HD programming ?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080807/SPORTS0107/808070411/1004/SPORTS

I loved Versus for their Tour de France and America's Cup coverage but to relegate IndyCar to this "specialty" channel is devastating.

There is a news conference today to announce the sad news. Kicked off of ESPN. One good thing, maybe we get better announcers.

[MDS]

So is everyone who wanted Tony George to have complete control of American open wheel happy with this?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

To say that anyone who was an IRL fan during the split was a Tony George fan is hugely unfair. I supported the IRL because it had the Indianapolis 500 and oval racing. That's it. I could care less about Tony George running the freakin' thing. It's not about Tony George, it's about the 500 and oval racing. If CART/CCSW had the Indianapolis 500, I would have been a CART/CCWS fan.

So lay off the TG support bs. Let me wallow in my depression over not being on ESPN next year.

[SarahFan]

. It's not about Tony George, it's about the 500 and oval racing. .

if it was only that easy

[Osiris333]

This is a bad move. In fact, it's a disaster. They should have paid to stay on ESPN. The sponsors will dry up with the miniscule ratings. I don't even have Vs. on my cable system. They'd have even been better off with a time buy on Speed.

You can't be a major league sport with a minor league TV package.

Let's face it. TG HAS driven the sport into the ground with the senseless split. At least he's now the one stuck trying to clean it up.

And I might remind you that CART HAD oval racing. Indy, Phoenix, NH, Michigan, Millwaukee, Nazareth. And they were ALL sucessful events. Imagine adding Vegas, Fontanta and Texas to that line-up, instead of splitting the sport in two and ending up where we are today....

Oh well, that's all in the past now. I guess I'll be stuck watching 4 races next year. I can't even get DirecTV in my apartment complex.

Bad, bad move.

[pits4me]

So much for the Honda, Firestone and Indy 500 leverage. Another season of no televised qualifying.

My confidence in the future of American Open Wheel Racing has just hit an all time low.

[Rex Monaco]

I've been trying to remain hopeful that the mergification would lead to a strong AOWR series. But this shows me that AOWR will continue to suffer under the leadership of TG.

Honda and the top IRL teams actually deserve this treatment. But the new CCWS migrants could have done as good if not better under CC.

There is only one way this can lead to something positive, and that's if the IRL puts together a GREAT broadcast team. Because a mediocre broadcast on a second tier station will lead to obscurity faster that you can say "it's my sand box".

[Pat Wiatrowski]

I've been trying to remain hopeful that the mergification would lead to a strong AOWR series. But this shows me that AOWR will continue to suffer under the leadership of TG.

Honda and the top IRL teams actually deserve this treatment. But the new CCWS migrants could have done as good if not better under CC.

There is only one way this can lead to something positive, and that's if the IRL puts together a GREAT broadcast team. Because a mediocre broadcast on a second tier station will lead to obscurity faster that you can say "it's my sand box".

It will be very funny to watch the .irl supporters try to spin this ****.

[SarahFan]

It will be very funny to watch the .irl supporters try to spin this cra*.


http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112390&page=1&pp=25

[booger]

This move is more than a disaster, it's Champ Car tv all over again! Versus will not draw flies to these race b'casts and worse yet, it sure won't draw in any new sponsors. If I were Subway, I'd tear up whatever agreement's on the table after this news and run like hell. And what are they to do? Make major buys on Versus to sell subs? It'll be Subway franchisees (the ones who really pay the bills) "versus" Subway corporate if they decide to sponsor this dog.

[Rex Monaco]

There is only one way this can lead to something positive, and that's if the IRL puts together a GREAT broadcast team.

From the announcement:
"Officially, all races are produced by ESPN Inc."

Not exactly what I was hoping to hear.

[Old3Fan]

Who gets Versus? Even Spike TV has a tremendous advantage viewer wise than Versus. A really DUMB MOVE. Tony being Tony.

[coogmaster]

This is a complete disaster. I've never even heard of this channel! And I live in central Indianapolis. How the hell is IndyCar supposed to grow if half the people who watch it now won't be able to watch it next year and beyond?

ABC was the NAME of IndyCar coverage and now its gone.. except for the 500 thank God. Things just keep getting worse with all this it seems. I don't know what to think of this deal, except that it sucks. FSN, like IRL had in '99 would have been better than this.

In Tony's defence, I'm sure he did all he could to get the best deal possible. If this was the best channel IndyCar could get, it says alot about the popularity of the series... bleh. Time to watch the 1989 500 on VHS and cry myself to sleep again.

[Chris R]

The more I think about tis the more I realize that Rush had it all right "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose" (pardon my poor French) "the more things change, the more they stay the same".....

I think disaster is probably an understatement unless this is accompanied by a dynamite broadcast team, tons of promotion, a wicked internet presence and 500% more promotion in general...

Me thinks this is the return of the "nothing matters but Indy" mentality since Indy is taken care of...

Is there anyone out there with the respect to write another white paper and have it mean anything??

[Gluaistean]

TF

Ken, this move reminds me of CHAMP CAR on Spike. It intrigues me that they signed such a long term contract. If they have any chance of gaining a foothold in the market they should at least try to wait out the season to see how the ratings fare.
I will say one thing, Versus, the old Outdoor netwrok covers the Tour De France and they do a great job. They have two Americans former riders and two Brits Phil Liggett possibly the most respected jounalist in cycling along with Paul Sherwin. If Versus follows that trend then it may be good. Getting people to find out what and where Versus is ,now that's a challenge.

[ykiki]

this is depressing as all hell.... does Versus have HD programming ?



The answer to this is YES, they do (thank goodness). I get Versus in HD as part of my cable package in the Seattle area, and their Standard-Def channel is part of the "basic" channel lineup (just after FSN, ESPN, espn2 and Speed). One thing in their defense, while others have mentioned their good coverage of the Tour de France, I've been watching the Versus coverage of the NHL the last couple years - and I think they've done a good job of it.

As many of you have stated, the real question is how does this improve the visibility of IndyCar racing, especially if you're trying to attract sponsors??

[harvick#1]

Who gets Versus? Even Spike TV has a tremendous advantage viewer wise than Versus. A really DUMB MOVE. Tony being Tony.

I get Versus, its a good channel, there sports coverage is fantastic, Hockey is way better on VS. than NBC anyday

[The instant classic]

i dont care much what has HD or not, im just glad indycar got off ESPN i hated them

[garyshell]

Versus is not on Time Warner. That seems like a LARGE issue to me.

Gary

[jimispeed]

I agree with all of this. FX Network seems to be the new network that everyone is watching. I don't know if they would cover Indycar, but I would go somewhere like that long before VS.


Big step down........ Former Champcar fans speak from experience. How many people even have VS.??

The worst!!

[domaza]

Vs. is supposedly 60 million dollars for 10 years deal, which is suberb. ABC will also pay for Indy 500, which is probably also worth millions.

No the questions is, can anybody see it in US?

[fugariracing]

I'm probably one of the few here that has Versus at the moment, but even still it's absolutely pathetic. Then again, it is TG in charge so frankly I'm not surprised he would stoop to this level.

What are all the trickle-down effects of this? By losing ESPN you can rest assure espn.com coverage will be even less, Oreo could be gone, no SportsCenter highlights which I stress is important because any casual fan will tune into that. No bottom line results.

And talks for Subway as title sponsor, I think are almost caput at this juncture. Why would anyone sponsor a series that will have no exposure? Or for that matter will any sponsor commit to a team? It's like the end of CC all over again...

It is sad that given the keys to all of open-wheel racing in this country, TG has once again managed to outdo himself in levels of stupidity. TV exposure was probably the most important part of the unification and now that will be reduced to the absolute bare minimum.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Well ok I am over my mourning of the loss of ESPN. The one great thing about Versus is they did have fantastic coverage of last year's America's Cup . The technical challenges inherent to televising yacht racing and making it interesting to the viewer are enormous but Versus did a fantastic job of it. Here's to giving them a chance. My only worry now is that the darn shows will still be produced by ESPN. UGH.

Another upside to Versus is that they have more airtime to fill than ESPN so dedicated open wheel shows such as a Robin Miller or IndyCar weekly show throughout the year are possibilities. Get rid of the bull riding and put on some IndyCar news shows, IndyCar tech shows, IndyCar call in and feature programs. Dedicated "niche" shows that ESPN didn't want to put on.

[downtowndeco]

Vs. is supposedly 60 million dollars for 10 years deal, which is suberb. ABC will also pay for Indy 500, which is probably also worth millions.

No the questions is, can anybody see it in US?

You're saying that Vs. is PAYING the IRL 60 million over ten years? And ABC will PAY seperately for the 500?

Can no one see the difference between this deal and the TIME BUY that CCWS did w/Spike?

The IRL has been spinning it's wheels for 10 years w/ESPN. Let's try something new. There will be consistancy and steady INCOME. IMO this is going to turn out much, much better than any of you are giving it credit for.

[MDS]

The America's Cup was last year? And it was Televised? I had to check this morning. I have Verses, and had I known the America's Cup was on last year I probably would watched part of it, but that's kind of my point, no one knew because Verses is on the end of the cable box. On DirectTV its channel 608, ESPN is channel 206. Say goodbye to the casual fan and hello to .4 ratings again.

For all of you whom are shocked I suggest you look back to 1996. I've said it before and I'll say it again. All of those teams who stayed with CART didn't do so out of spite, or even financial concerns, it was a huge vote of no-confidence in Tony George, and his recent actions -- the ho-hum schedule and invisible TV deal -- justifies that vote.

All of you***** followed TG blindly out of loyalty to the Indy 500 should have listened to what the rest of us were saying. The man is not qualified to lead American Open Wheel. The split wasn't about oval racing, American drivers, or any of that crap. It was about a silver spoon born kid who thought he should have total control of teams fighting his efforts to bleed teams dry during their stay at Indy.

I haven't ever wanted Champ Car back until today.

[fugariracing]

They have more airtime to fill than ESPN so dedicated open wheel shows such as a Robin Miller or IndyCar weekly show throughout the year are possibilities. Get rid of the bull riding and put on some IndyCar news shows, IndyCar tech shows, IndyCar call in and feature programs. Dedicated "niche" shows that ESPN didn't want to put on.

It doesn't matter if no-one has the channel :rolleyes:

[ChicagocrewIRL]

This from IndyCar.com all positive bullet points....

--- All races in HD

--- 13 races with committed minimum 3 hour time slots including extensive pre-race coverage, i.e. NO MORE TIMED RACES

--- Will air a one-hour race preview show the day before each event that will feature qualification highlights and relevant IndyCar Series stories of the weekend. Actual live qualification coverage is in the mix as well.

--- the network will feature extensive coverage of all Indianapolis 500 qualification days among other Month of May activities.

--- VERSUS also initially will feature at least 10 hours of IndyCar Series ancillary programming each season, re-air all IndyCar Series races the week after original broadcast, and feature a weekly Firestone Indy Lights show.

--- Additional programming, along with international distribution, a breakdown of network race affiliations and expanded digital platforms, is being discussed. The 18-race schedule for 2009 was released last week.

Seems to me that this could actually be GOOD. VERSUS is a network in expansion mode so just because you don't get it now doesn't mean you won't get it soon. The 2009 season is still far off and there is plenty of time for IMS productions and Versus to hammer out an international deal which is what the article says.

And as a previous post pointed out.... the IRL is getting PAID to be on Versus .

ESPN, I may not miss you so much after all.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

MDS you are better off with the pathetic losers at CCF. Leave the name calling in that forum not this one. I'm sure you will be very happy there being unhappy about the state of open wheel racing. Most of the forum members here have class enough to leave name calling out of their posts.

[SarahFan]

This from IndyCar.com all positive bullet points....

--- All races in HD

--- 13 races with committed minimum 3 hour time slots including extensive pre-race coverage, i.e. NO MORE TIMED RACES

--- Will air a one-hour race preview show the day before each event that will feature qualification highlights and relevant IndyCar Series stories of the weekend. Actual live qualification coverage is in the mix as well.

--- the network will feature extensive coverage of all Indianapolis 500 qualification days among other Month of May activities.

--- VERSUS also initially will feature at least 10 hours of IndyCar Series ancillary programming each season, re-air all IndyCar Series races the week after original broadcast, and feature a weekly Firestone Indy Lights show.

--- Additional programming, along with international distribution, a breakdown of network race affiliations and expanded digital platforms, is being discussed. The 18-race schedule for 2009 was released last week.

Seems to me that this could actually be GOOD. VERSUS is a network in expansion mode so just because you don't get it now doesn't mean you won't get it soon. The 2009 season is still far off and there is plenty of time for IMS productions and Versus to hammer out an international deal which is what the article says.

And as a previous post pointed out.... the IRL is getting PAID to be on Versus .

ESPN, I may not miss you so much after all.

60 mil 10 years

6 mil per year..

13 races...4.6 mil per race...

espn is doing the production....so who pays? V or the IRL..

becuase if you factor in highlight show, lights etc your talking 5 to 7 hours per race......whats production cost?

this might be a break even deal at best.....











with that said.....as a diehard....I'll find the coverage, and enjoy the increase.....but can't I just cant get excited about this from a biz standpoint.....

[ChicagocrewIRL]

60 mil 10 years

6 mil per year..

13 races...4.6 mil per race...

espn is doing the production....so who pays? V or the IRL..

becuase if you factor in highlight show, lights etc your talking 5 to 7 hours per race......whats production cost?

this might be a break even deal at best.....











with that said.....as a diehard....I'll find the coverage, and enjoy the increase.....but can't I just cant get excited about this from a biz standpoint.....

Oh leave no doubt Ken, I'm not jumping up and down over this, I'm just trying to see the positives. Not having timed races will be huge. I wanted to see how Edmonton would have played out because the leaders were running out of fuel, but no, air time ran out and it went to the clock. I wanted to throw a brick through my TV.

[SarahFan]

Oh leave no doubt Ken, I'm not jumping up and down over this, I'm just trying to see the positives. Not having timed races will be huge. I wanted to see how Edmonton would have played out because the leaders were running out of fuel, but no, air time ran out and it went to the clock. I wanted to throw a brick through my TV.


totally agree...

I guess where I sit....this is a good thing.....but big picture stuff I gotta question it...

this just smells alot like 'over promise and underdeliver' stuff to me

time will tell.....

[Lousada]

Some people are quite delusional here. Indycar gets horrible ratings already. I don't think this switch will have much of an impact.
From what I understand Versus is a channel that wants to grow and create a specific audience for themselves. This is exactly what Indycar is trying to do too. Indycar will get first class treatment on this network, which means promotions and more time devoted. It could be a bit like ESPN in the '80's was.
I think Indycar should not aim for the ESPN crowd anyway. Those are the people that already watch NASCAR. The Versus crowd is different and I think more suited to what Indycar should target.

This is not a disaster but an opportunity to reinvent Indycar back to something relevant.

[Wilf]

So is everyone who wanted Tony George to have complete control of American open wheel happy with this?

It sure beat the alternative. I think there is a race in ANSAN you can watch!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

" It's time that ESPN gives up its IndyCar broadcasts to someone who wants to do the job right."

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=nytimes&page=auto/news/newstest.aspx?id=4155772

This was written in a sports editorial by Stephen Schwarz, motosports editor for the NY Times on June 9, 2008 after the Texas Race broadcast fiasco.

ESPN deserves to be fired for their shoddy treatment of the IndyCar Series.

It's still puzzling to me though that ESPN will still be producing the telecasts for Versus. WEIRD.

[Lousada]

It's still puzzling to me though that ESPN will still be producing the telecasts for Versus. WEIRD.

ESPN still has a one year contract, maybe that has something to do with it. Or it is a mistake, as I thought IMS productions did the production?

[bennybigb]

Let me try to give this thing a spin.

By the time the IRL has a TV package that people can actually see, they might be using better race cars.

On the other hand, maybe they'll just be out of business.

[MDS]

This is exactly what Indycar is trying to do too. Indycar will get first class treatment on this network, which means promotions and more time devoted.

First class treatment + fourth rate network = Third rate product

[-Helix-]

Kicked off?

More like went into rehab and made a full recovery.

The IRL is making $50 Million more off this deal than they would have gotten from ESPN.

The coverage will undoubtedly be better.

How is this a bad thing?

[-Helix-]

First class treatment + fourth rate network = Third rate product

I'm a hockey fan and absolutely love Versus.

So for me it's:

First class treatment + first rate network = first rate product.

It's all a matter of opinion. And I wouldn't expect any better from an IRL hater such as yourself.

[chuck34]

I'm not all that thrilled about this. The optimist in me wants to think that this is going to end up being a really good thing. But then I think about CC and Spike, and I just don't know.

You know something just occured to me. Vs has the America's Cup, and The Tour de France (plus some other cycling stuff), now they have the IRL. Add a plane race or two, some CORR stuff, etc. and Vs will get back to the old SpeedVision days. That could work out to be awesome! We've all been wanting a Speed2 that has MOTORSPORTS on it not NASCAB, right?

[jimispeed]

I still think it stinks, because it probably won't help much in the area of sponsorship, but who knows.

I always watch PBR with my daughter on VS though!

It's just not nearly as frequented as ESPN is by viewers.

[ykiki]

As a racing fan....

I'm ok with it. As I said earlier, my cable provider carries Vs. as part of its basic package in a block with the other sports programming - plus I also get Vs. in HD.

I've enjoyed their coverage of the NHL (which looks spectacular in HD by the way).

More programming (longer time slots, pre-race coverage, Lights, specialty programs, etc) is something every fan hopes for. I'm excited that IndyCar will have a network partner that's looking to grow with the series and I won't have to join a race "in progress" once espn2's coverage of the Cheerleading Nationals conclude.

Business-wise, there are a couple things that I wonder about. Versus is a LOT smaller than ESPN and even though I can see it, there's a lot of fans who won't be able to. $6 Mil/year is about $461K/race. I don't know squat about the cost of production on a race by race basis. Is this a good amount? (Yes, I know it's better than nothing). While I like the idea of a long-term deal and the security it may bring, I get flashbacks to Northern Light and PepBoys. Weren't those deals supposed to also run longer than they did? That brings me to Title Sponsorship. I'm feeling a little nervous about the decrease in saturation that Vs. brings to the table relative to ESPN/espn2. Will this have an adverse effect on finding a Title Sponsor for the IndyCar series, or will it all just come down to the Indy 500 ratings anyway?

All in all, while there are elements to this that make me nervous, as a fan I just plan to sit back and enjoy the increase in coverage while it lasts. The potential certainly is there for good things going forward.

[indycool]

That $6m/year for Versus apparently doesn't includde what ABC pays for the "500." which one business story estimates at $4 million. So that's $10 million a year is the story is right.

[downtowndeco]

60 mil 10 years

6 mil per year..

13 races...4.6 mil per race...

espn is doing the production....so who pays? V or the IRL..

becuase if you factor in highlight show, lights etc your talking 5 to 7 hours per race......whats production cost?

this might be a break even deal at best.....











with that said.....as a diehard....I'll find the coverage, and enjoy the increase.....but can't I just cant get excited about this from a biz standpoint.....

Leave it to you to take a 60 million dollar deal and call it "...break even at best...".

Again. CC had to PAY to get on Spike. The IRL is getting PAID to be on Vs.

[MDS]

You guys are going to have to speak louder. I can't hear anything over the noise of all these people carrying water for Tony George.

[gofastandwynn]

All of you gomers who followed TG blindly out of loyalty to the Indy 500 should have listened to what the rest of us were saying. The man is not qualified to lead American Open Wheel. The split wasn't about oval racing, American drivers, or any of that crap. It was about a silver spoon born kid who thought he should have total control of teams fighting his efforts to bleed teams dry during their stay at Indy.

I haven't ever wanted Champ Car back until today.

So you would have rather had tape delayed broadcasts on cable and 1 hour highlights shows on ABC? That was what champcar would have given you had they went Tango Ultimate.

If the IBJ article was accurate than this was the best offer on the table as far an actual promotion partner went.

Am I happy about it? Indifferent really, it won't affect me since I have both VS. & VS. HD. Is it the end of the world as a bunch of people want to think it is? Not at all.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

You guys are going to have to speak louder. I can't hear anything over the noise of all these people carrying water for Tony George.

What is your obsession with Tony George ??? of the some 40 odd posts on this topic, you're the ONLY one that keeps writing his name ? Is this healthy ?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

The more I think about it, the more this is like IndyCar getting it's OWN exclusive network that carries nothing but IndyCar. This is the closest thing to that. What FAN would begrudge that ????

[DBell]

Kicked off?

More like went into rehab and made a full recovery.

The IRL is making $50 Million more off this deal than they would have gotten from ESPN.

The coverage will undoubtedly be better.

How is this a bad thing?

Two things: I've heard The Irl was getting 10 mil a year from the current contract. How is 6 a year a better deal? ESPN is still producing all the races, according to the news release. So why should we expect the race coverage to be better?

I still don't see how this is anything but a downgrade in the TV package.

[garyshell]

The more I think about it, the more this is like IndyCar getting it's OWN exclusive network that carries nothing but IndyCar. This is the closest thing to that. What FAN would begrudge that ????


Oh maybe a fan who has Time Warner Cable and no access to Versus. Arghhhhhhhh!

<sigh>

Gary

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Oh maybe a fan who has Time Warner Cable and no access to Versus. Arghhhhhhhh!

<sigh>

Gary

Sorry to hear that Gary. Time to fire them. (Hopefully you can) .

In Chicago we have 2 evil cable companies Comcast and RCN. Their main competition is AT&T, Direct TV and DISH. All of them carry Versus, also all in HD.

[jim874]

VERSUS is a wholly owned company of Comcast Corporation ...

I just checked Time Warner in Cincinnati and they do not list Versus. Why would they carry a competitor's channel, even if they could?
Ten Years... hmm ... oh well, I guess there is always F1 on Speed. Ten years of 4-5 races a year doesn't turn me on as a fan. I can skip it all, and catch the highlights on Speed Report on Sunday night or read about it on AR1.

Way to go, Tony. Obviously you could care less about fans and growing the sport. Some one needs to take his hammer away, before he does anymore damage!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

VERSUS is a wholly owned company of Comcast Corporation ...

I just checked Time Warner in Cincinnati and they do not list Versus. Why would they carry a competitor's channel, even if they could?
Ten Years... hmm ... oh well, I guess there is always F1 on Speed. Ten years of 4-5 races a year doesn't turn me on as a fan. I can skip it all, and catch the highlights on Speed Report on Sunday night or read about it on AR1.

Way to go, Tony. Obviously you could care less about fans and growing the sport. Some one needs to take his hammer away, before he does anymore damage!

RCN, AT&T, DIRECTTV, DISH in Chicago all carry Versus and Comcast Sportsnet. AND they are all direct competitors to Comcast. Programming is programming no matter where the money eventually ends up. Comcast Corp provides these competitors in the Chicago market with their programming because they are competitiors who happen to also be customers.

Sounds to me like Time Warner just doesn't want to pony up the cash to keep their customers happy.

[jackmart]

Some people are quite delusional here. Indycar gets horrible ratings already. I don't think this switch will have much of an impact.
From what I understand Versus is a channel that wants to grow and create a specific audience for themselves. This is exactly what Indycar is trying to do too. Indycar will get first class treatment on this network, which means promotions and more time devoted. It could be a bit like ESPN in the '80's was.
I think Indycar should not aim for the ESPN crowd anyway. Those are the people that already watch NASCAR. The Versus crowd is different and I think more suited to what Indycar should target.

This is not a disaster but an opportunity to reinvent Indycar back to something relevant.

This post is so positive and makes me happy thanks!

I think this does seem to be a bit of hit but like many have said it could be great. I can tell you that Insight cable in Columbus doesn't have Vs. either which is sad but I'm moving to LA anyways. Will they still have stuff online where you can see it? Will they also still air the commentary on the xm radio station?

[SarahFan]

Leave it to you to take a 60 million dollar deal and call it "...break even at best...".

Again. CC had to PAY to get on Spike. The IRL is getting PAID to be on Vs.



So how much is production cost?

[indycool]

Time Warner is hooked up with several cable networks carried by Comcast. There is probably some room for discussion there.

Sure, this isn't the right deal for those who don't/can't get Versus and I feel badly for them. It would seem that DirecTV is the technology of the future, though. I admit I have Versus on Comcast in Indy but only watched the Tour de France there and the coverage was excellent.

But I think Lousada makes some good points, too.

Ken, according to an SBJ story, it's not $6 million, it's $10 million -- $6 from Versus and $4 from ESPN/ABC in some form. Nothing has been said about who pays production costs.

[CCWS77]

To say that anyone who was an IRL fan during the split was a Tony George fan is hugely unfair. I supported the IRL because it had the Indianapolis 500 and oval racing. That's it. I could care less about Tony George running the freakin' thing. It's not about Tony George, it's about the 500 and oval racing. If CART/CCSW had the Indianapolis 500, I would have been a CART/CCWS fan.

So lay off the TG support bs. Let me wallow in my depression over not being on ESPN next year.

Think about your own statement and then consider how much better everything would have worked out by adding the Indy 500 to the Champ Car schedule. You are living in the twilight zone if you think the current merger is better. I don't care about the man Tony George but he is the only one to blame for that not happening.

You have just highlighted why there is no real momentum after the merger and hence where this TV deal came from. From the point of view of a fan who just wants better coverage of the IRL there is nothing wrong with this deal at all. The problem is that all those people were already IRL fans during the split. There is no reason to expect growth from an organization that is focused on those specific fans and cuts deals that limits exposure to the rest of the outside world. That is what this deal is.

For comparision lets note the potential 2008 Champ Car TV deal was exactly the opposite. It pissed off hardcore fans with non-indepth coverage in exchange for as much exposure as possible.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

In the Chicago market, just driving the expressways and interstates in the area, Versus has made considerable marketing efforts on behalf of their NHL coverage with extensive billboard signage.

I think IndyCar CAN catch the casual race fan with the right marketing and promotion efforts by the network. This is all about growth. As stated before, Versus is a cable network that is in serious GROWTH mode and I would think they would do what it took to grow their viewership. IndyCar would be a PRIME PROPERTY on Versus, not relegated to secondary status as it is in ESPN behind NASCAR.

FYI : : How has the NHL benefited from being on VERSUS?

In the 2007-08 season, its third on VERSUS, NHL regular season ratings were up 50 percent, conference finals up 71 percent and the Stanley Cup finals up 138 percent over the previous year.

The main reason this ISNT SPike TV all over again is that Spike's coverage of ChampCar wasn't a prime property for Spike. It was secondary and a time buy.

In this instance, Versus is committing a substantial financial stake in this endeavor. IndyCar is a PRIME PROPERTY. With all due respect, I don't think this deal is limiting exposure at all. Look how quickly ESPN grew in it's first 10 years. Versus is in it for the next decade and shows great signs for potential growth and is currently in only 20 million less homes than ESPN.

[ezhop7]

Versus also carries college football (Mtn West and Pac-10) in the fall. They have some good football announcing crews

[FormerFF]

From a fan's standpoint, having the races on Versus is a good thing, provided of course you can get it. From a series financial standpoint, it's probably a wash. From a team owner's standpoint, it's a train wreck. It's also, unfortunately, probably all the ICS could get without resorting to time buying. Bummer.

[SarahFan]

Ken, according to an SBJ story, it's not $6 million, it's $10 million -- $6 from Versus and $4 from ESPN/ABC in some form. Nothing has been said about who pays production costs.


Versus is 60mil over 10 years.....thats 6 mil for 13 or so races

the article stated expanded coverage

it also stated espn was doing the production...someone is paying for it...

[MDS]

As someone who has worked for coprorate and automotive marketing let me tell you how this is more than likely going to play out:

Of the five races on ABC only one of them is going to be pre-Indy 500, and that will not help ratings of the main event. My bet are they will continue to slip, reaching 3.5 or so in the next three years.

The promotion needed to draw people to a small market production, ads during primetime events such as Monday night football, NASCAR races, bowl games, the 8 to 10 p.m. shows with strong demos will not happen without strong support from a title sponsor. If they had a title sponsor close they would have held the schedule for the same time as the sponsor annoucnement.

ESPN will cut back its rather extensive promotion and sweatheart deals for IRL partners. This will lower the sport's profile as a whole. Versus will of course do cross-promotion, but events like the Tour de France and Dakar Rally coverage will not attract enough viewers.

Versus, no matter how much money they spend rebranding themselves, will not create significant pentetration against ESPN. They are too well established, have a massively successful multi-platform brand that Versus cannot compete without massive infusion of capitol.

The media views Versus, and anything it broadcasts, as an afterthought. The IRL will not recieve the same amount of coverage from mainstream outlets because their TV deal will be considered a third-teir.

In marketing you compare similar events to determine the likely success. The closest comparasion is the Craftsman Trucks on Speed, which averages .73 or so. The CTS has the advantage of the NASCAR marketing matchine, higher profile drivers like Kyle Bush and Kevin Harvick, and arguably the best racing of any major series in the country.

The IRL doesn't have the NASCAR marketing machines, drivers that get as much coverage as Kyle Bush, doesn't have the penetration in top markets, or media coverage, and the racing isn't as good. Looking at Champ Car numbers I have would have to say the ceiling for the first year or two two is probably in the .6 to .8 range. Is that, combined with slipping ratings for the Indy 500 enough to justify $7 million a car for an 18 race season? Well that depends on the company I guess.

That .6 would be double the .3 the NHL games saw, and that average included playoff games, can it be done? Probably, but I think it would take a lot of work to get to that.

Essentially this contract is one big fat gamble that Verses can grow into a premire cable network capable of routinely pulling in 2.0 ratings on a given Sunday. Honestly I don't see that happening. I don't think Comcast will pour the money needed to promote the sport. I don't think there are enough marquee events, there are two, both will be on ABC and there should be at least five on the schedule right now. I don't think the IRL will be able to land a major title sponsor like Sprint, Nationwide or Kobalt.

The best case scenario is they land a title sponsor for at least $10 million a year; Comcast steps up to the plate, promtes the hell out of Versus and sponsors a car similar to what they do in NASCAR; Direct TV comes with a Hot Pass option for the ICS. Qualifying, Indy Pro and the Atlantics are televised lived, which help grow future stars while promoting races and the IRL and their partners promote the hell of the sport, bringing higher ratings and stable home to the series.

More needs to be done to promote the sport. Some kind of Triple Crown bonus program, live, significant coverage in Canada and possible Mexcio and Brazil and build more marquee events, like an All Star Race, more 500 mile races and/or Paul Newman's race in Brooklyn. But the problem is, all that requires inspiration and vision, and lets face it, TG and Krew hasn't shown much of that.

I see this playing out as a failure and the IRL trying to bail by the 5 year mark. I'd like to believe the spin that this is somehow good, that a dedicated partner small partner is better than a disinterested big partner, but I'm pretty sure this is relegating the IRL to obscurity.

[nigelred5]

The America's Cup was last year? And it was Televised? I had to check this morning. I have Verses, and had I known the America's Cup was on last year I probably would watched part of it, but that's kind of my point, no one knew because Verses is on the end of the cable box. On DirectTV its channel 608, ESPN is channel 206. Say goodbye to the casual fan and hello to .4 ratings again.

.


It's not like that everywhere. VS has very good placement and is standard basic cable on my Comcast lineup. VS. is channel 2, grouped with all of the other National and regional sports and network television stations. VS.HD is sandwiched between one of our Fox HD channels and ESPN/ESPN2. Speed is 65, all by it's lonesome with E! and MTV.

Will Advertisers care though? Well, it's already got a home page ad on the VS. Website. That's more than Champcar could buy from ESPN.
I will say, at least being in Comcast Country, they certainly promote the teams and venues they own, which around here, is a LOT.They also have their own ticketing agency to avoid Ticket massa. Comcast does know how to promote itself, especially on it's cable systems and on the networks they own. They run commercials for VS. on damn near every channel I watch at some point of the day.

[Wilf]

As someone who has worked for coprorate and automotive marketing let me tell you how this is more than likely going to play out:

Of the five races on ABC only one of them is going to be pre-Indy 500, and that will not help ratings of the main event. My bet are they will continue to slip, reaching 3.5 or so in the next three years.

The promotion needed to draw people to a small market production, ads during primetime events such as Monday night football, NASCAR races, bowl games, the 8 to 10 p.m. shows with strong demos will not happen without strong support from a title sponsor. If they had a title sponsor close they would have held the schedule for the same time as the sponsor annoucnement.

ESPN will cut back its rather extensive promotion and sweatheart deals for IRL partners. This will lower the sport's profile as a whole. Versus will of course do cross-promotion, but events like the Tour de France and Dakar Rally coverage will not attract enough viewers.

Versus, no matter how much money they spend rebranding themselves, will not create significant pentetration against ESPN. They are too well established, have a massively successful multi-platform brand that Versus cannot compete without massive infusion of capitol.

The media views Versus, and anything it broadcasts, as an afterthought. The IRL will not recieve the same amount of coverage from mainstream outlets because their TV deal will be considered a third-teir.

In marketing you compare similar events to determine the likely success. The closest comparasion is the Craftsman Trucks on Speed, which averages .73 or so. The CTS has the advantage of the NASCAR marketing matchine, higher profile drivers like Kyle Bush and Kevin Harvick, and arguably the best racing of any major series in the country.

The IRL doesn't have the NASCAR marketing machines, drivers that get as much coverage as Kyle Bush, doesn't have the penetration in top markets, or media coverage, and the racing isn't as good. Looking at Champ Car numbers I have would have to say the ceiling for the first year or two two is probably in the .6 to .8 range. Is that, combined with slipping ratings for the Indy 500 enough to justify $7 million a car for an 18 race season? Well that depends on the company I guess.

That .6 would be double the .3 the NHL games saw, and that average included playoff games, can it be done? Probably, but I think it would take a lot of work to get to that.

Essentially this contract is one big fat gamble that Verses can grow into a premire cable network capable of routinely pulling in 2.0 ratings on a given Sunday. Honestly I don't see that happening. I don't think Comcast will pour the money needed to promote the sport. I don't think there are enough marquee events, there are two, both will be on ABC and there should be at least five on the schedule right now. I don't think the IRL will be able to land a major title sponsor like Sprint, Nationwide or Kobalt.

The best case scenario is they land a title sponsor for at least $10 million a year; Comcast steps up to the plate, promtes the hell out of Versus and sponsors a car similar to what they do in NASCAR; Direct TV comes with a Hot Pass option for the ICS. Qualifying, Indy Pro and the Atlantics are televised lived, which help grow future stars while promoting races and the IRL and their partners promote the hell of the sport, bringing higher ratings and stable home to the series.

More needs to be done to promote the sport. Some kind of Triple Crown bonus program, live, significant coverage in Canada and possible Mexcio and Brazil and build more marquee events, like an All Star Race, more 500 mile races and/or Paul Newman's race in Brooklyn. But the problem is, all that requires inspiration and vision, and lets face it, TG and Krew hasn't shown much of that.

I see this playing out as a failure and the IRL trying to bail by the 5 year mark. I'd like to believe the spin that this is somehow good, that a dedicated partner small partner is better than a disinterested big partner, but I'm pretty sure this is relegating the IRL to obscurity.

I guess that will give you your chance to run and fund your league the way you want. But while you are wanting for your opportunity, tell us what was your opinion of NASCAR when we could only see one or two races a month on some start up network called ESPN. It seems they both succeeded growing from little or nothing to being 800 lbs gorillas. Along they way NASCAR got a little help from a small company that had something to do with tobacco even though they weren't on broadcast networks and less than 35 million homes had access to ESPN.

I really believe we need a thread on how you would run and develop your league and where the funds would originate.

[nigelred5]

VS. also has Video OnDemand and does usually make their events avalable on the website as well as on the comcast OnDemand feature, so it could mean a lot more opportunities to actually see the race for those of us saddled up like a show pony by comcast.

This is also being labelled a collaborative effort by Versus and ABC/ESPN, so it may not mean that the mouse is totally hostile to VERSUS and Comcast even with a competing sports network. Comcast carries the ABC/ESPN family to one hell of a lot of TV's nationally. We've seen what happened with Fox programming in the past on Comcast when the didn't see eye to eye.

[Miatanut]

What is your obsession with Tony George ??? of the some 40 odd posts on this topic, you're the ONLY one that keeps writing his name ? Is this healthy ?

There's a lot of us who thought the sport was better when it was run by the gearheads. After the forums got merged, anytime any of us would try to point that out, we would get shouted down with 'This is the IRL forum.' Just because some of us are reaching the point of giving up on pointing it out doesn't mean we don't still feel this way.

I, for one, think this is a great move. It's Tony continuing to protect his race, making sure it stands tall above all the other races on the schedule, and bringing us a little closer to the day when the gearheads who make the sport go say "Enough!"

We keep hearing that ratings are dropping because there's more options now. Don't kid yourself. The ratings are dropping because the racing isn't what it used to be. The gearheads know that, and will either take their teams to where the racing is cheaper (Grand Am), or where it has better exposure and manufacturer support (ALMS), or will decide they want to stay in open wheel and will draw a line in the sand, demanding they get a seat on the Board or they will start their own series. Sound familiar?

I have faith that the sport will not continue to decline forever ("forever" being defined for me by how much longer I will be around to enjoy this sport, which is 40 years or less). It will reach a bottom and things will change. The only question is how much longer it will be before we reach that bottom.

[Wilf]

ESPN still has a one year contract, maybe that has something to do with it. Or it is a mistake, as I thought IMS productions did the production?


IMS productions provides the technical facilities and staffing for the production short of on air talent, producer and director. I almost wish they had those responsibilities also. I said almost; great freelance producers and directors are almost as hard to come by as great on air talent and when you can only promise them 16 to 18 shows a year, money become a big issue. Heck, Wells and Goldberg both bolted from ESPN when the big networks called.

[Jag_Warrior]

Kicked off?

More like went into rehab and made a full recovery.

The IRL is making $50 Million more off this deal than they would have gotten from ESPN.

The coverage will undoubtedly be better.

How is this a bad thing?

I'm not sure how you're getting "$50 million more"... but $6 million a year is a far cry from the $40-$50 million a year you seemed to think was realistic a few days ago.

http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=512687&postcount=51

But hey, if the IRL can make this dog with fleas hunt, best of luck. Stay strong brother. There could be some rough sailing ahead.

[indycool]

Ken, yes, production costs hafta be paid for. No, I don't know who pays for 'em.

For the record, one team has already come out in favor of the package. Rahal issued a statement supporting it right after the announcement.

[Jess]

Oh maybe a fan who has Time Warner Cable and no access to Versus. Arghhhhhhhh!

<sigh>

Gary


I have Time Warner in here Columbus and I get both Versus and VersusHD... Its a pretty high numbered channel though so I'm not sure if its only offered on digital cable, it might not be on the regular cable package.

[icehammer97]

I posted this on the other board talking about this but wanted to make sure everyone saw this

Talking about the ratings. There is a difference between Spike and VS. VS is a sports channel while Spike has almost all scripted shows. I will give you one thing to think about with this whole thing. The NHL. It was on ESPN had a lockout and then went to VS. http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-...TV-Ratings.htm
Versus's regular season coverage of the NHL is down about 170,000 viewers from games that ran on ESPN and up about 60,000 viewers from games that ran on ESPN2. And this is including the fact that many fans were driven away by the fact they had a whole year canceled. VS has the NHL and college football including games from BCS conferences the Pac 10 and Big 12 and fringe sports like bull riding. It is also growing every year ie thier football coverage has gone from 9 games 2 years ago to 23 this year. Also when Spike did their coverage they did not have any pre or post race shows like VS is going to have or a weekly Firestone Indy Lights telecast, at least 10 hours of ancillary programming each season, extensive coverage of all Indianapolis 500 qualification days, and more yet to be worked out. This is not going to a nothing station for no reason other then no one wants you. This is going to a network that is willing to give you more exposure on thier station then if you were on an ESPN or Speed station.

And for those who don't get VS here is an article for you http://mvn.com/irl/2008/08/07/to-ind...ew-tv-package/

This part is new

As for the thought that VS will never be able to compete with ESPN there was a time not too long ago that the same thing was said about FOX being able to compete with ABC, NBC, and CBS. http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site/Public/menuitem.43afce2fac27e890311ba0a347a062a0/?vgnextoid=9e4df9669fa14010VgnVCM100000880a260aRCR D Last week FOX had two shows in the top 7 and NBC had 1 (although it was the number 1 show) and ABC had none.

[SarahFan]

Ken, yes, production costs hafta be paid for. No, I don't know who pays for 'em.

For the record, one team has already come out in favor of the package. Rahal issued a statement supporting it right after the announcement.

could you link that statement i would love to read it

[SarahFan]

I keep reading alot of comparisons between V and ESPN....

and 93m v 75m....and V being a growing network etc


lets not forget that the ratings on espn and espn2 suck on a regular basis....


we have seen over the past 3 or so years more and more races regulated to cable...and have seen the ratings on average drop dang near across the board

what are the #'s for Network v Versus*

or USA/TBS/FX v Versus*

* i have no idea, honest question

[Wilf]

There's a lot of us who thought the sport was better when it was run by the gearheads. After the forums got merged, anytime any of us would try to point that out, we would get shouted down with 'This is the IRL forum.' Just because some of us are reaching the point of giving up on pointing it out doesn't mean we don't still feel this way.

There was frustration on all sides. For many it was because some continued to point out how great it was racing in the CCWS and how much better the DP01 was than the Dallara. The time to debate those points has passed, a decision had been made. Your and others' dislike for anything to do with TG is acknowledged. But, just because you can't stand someone is not a convincing argument that anything TG does will surely fail.


I, for one, think this is a great move. It's Tony continuing to protect his race, making sure it stands tall above all the other races on the schedule, and bringing us a little closer to the day when the gearheads who make the sport go say "Enough!"

Why is it so difficult to understand why TG thinks of TG and his race first? As I have mentioned numerous times, his race is the reason the other races exist. While that is what I believe, I don't believe this television package is doomed to fail]We keep hearing that ratings are dropping because there's more options now. Don't kid yourself. The ratings are dropping because the racing isn't what it used to be.[/quote]

No, the racing isn't what it used to be. For the last 6 months or so, there have been more teams with more competition and 8 different winners. How long has it been since there were eight different winners in the first 14 races of a season?


The gearheads know that, and will either take their teams to where the racing is cheaper (Grand Am), or where it has better exposure and manufacturer support (ALMS), or will decide they want to stay in open wheel and will draw a line in the sand, demanding they get a seat on the Board or they will start their own series. Sound familiar?

I think I said this not long ago but maybe I needed to be more emphatic: "E N O U G H!!!!!!"


I have faith that the sport will not continue to decline forever ("forever" being defined for me by how much longer I will be around to enjoy this sport, which is 40 years or less). It will reach a bottom and things will change. The only question is how much longer it will be before we reach that bottom.

Sad to say we all share the same personal certainty. Fortunately, I don't share your prediction regarding the sport; actually, mine is the opposite of yours.

[Rex Monaco]

Along they way NASCAR got a little help from a small company that had something to do with tobacco even though they weren't on broadcast networks and less than 35 million homes had access to ESPN.

NASCAR was far more popular than the IRL is now when ESPN started up, and far more popular when they used the same tactic to get ESPN2 to grow.

If NASCAR went to Versus, this would be a different discussion because NASCAR has enough fans that would follow them there.

The IRL still needs to build that fan base. And doing so on an obscure channel might not be the easiest way to do so.

Those 5 races on ABC have to deliver more than spec cars running Honda engines and cat fights in the pits for people to search for the other 13 races.

[indycool]

Ken, it was on TSO and passed along to me from there....I'm not a TSO subscriber, but here is what was said:

What follows is a quote from Rahal Letterman Racing co-owner and three-time IndyCar champion Bobby Rahal concerning today's Indy Racing League announcement regarding its future television package.

The Indy Racing League, the sanctioning body for the IndyCar Series in DIRECTV HD and Firestone Indy Lights, today announced multi-year media partnerships with ABC and VERSUS. The Indianapolis 500-Mile Race will remain on ABC, continuing one of the longest partnerships in television sports, while the move to VERSUS, home to the National Hockey League, the NHL Stanley Cup playoffs, college football, Davis Cup and Tour de France, will give the IndyCar Series a new cable television partner beginning in 2009.

"Anything we can do to show more of the excitement of IndyCar racing benefits all of us," said Rahal. "I've seen what Versus has done for the Tour de France and if they do the same kind of job for us then I can only think it will be much better for the IRL. RLR also welcomes the financial and programming commitment Versus will make to tell the story about the drivers, teams and series to the public. In addition to the new programming, we are pleased that the Indianapolis 500 will continue to appear on ABC/ESPN, maintaining a long Memorial Day tradition."



==========

[MDS]

I guess that will give you your chance to run and fund your league the way you want. But while you are wanting for your opportunity, tell us what was your opinion of NASCAR when we could only see one or two races a month on some start up network called ESPN. It seems they both succeeded growing from little or nothing to being 800 lbs gorillas. Along they way NASCAR got a little help from a small company that had something to do with tobacco even though they weren't on broadcast networks and less than 35 million homes had access to ESPN.

You cannot compare the ICS of today to NASCAR of the 80s for one reason, money. NASCAR was dirt cheap to run back in the day and had a super loyal fan base. A base far more loyal than the ICS. I have a great-uncle who still won't drink Mountain Dew because "They backed that punk kid Waltrip." NASCAR fans have always been, to a lesser extent than today, incredibly loyal, would switch beers for their driver, would buy a interstate batteries because they backed Dale Jarrett, would smoke Camels because Jimmy Spencer drove for them. ICS fans are not nearly that loyal, and there aren't as many of them.

[SarahFan]

Ken, it was on TSO and passed along to me from there....I'm not a TSO subscriber, but here is what was said:

What follows is a quote from Rahal Letterman Racing co-owner and three-time IndyCar champion Bobby Rahal concerning today's Indy Racing League announcement regarding its future television package.

The Indy Racing League, the sanctioning body for the IndyCar Series in DIRECTV HD and Firestone Indy Lights, today announced multi-year media partnerships with ABC and VERSUS. The Indianapolis 500-Mile Race will remain on ABC, continuing one of the longest partnerships in television sports, while the move to VERSUS, home to the National Hockey League, the NHL Stanley Cup playoffs, college football, Davis Cup and Tour de France, will give the IndyCar Series a new cable television partner beginning in 2009.

"Anything we can do to show more of the excitement of IndyCar racing benefits all of us," said Rahal. "I've seen what Versus has done for the Tour de France and if they do the same kind of job for us then I can only think it will be much better for the IRL. RLR also welcomes the financial and programming commitment Versus will make to tell the story about the drivers, teams and series to the public. In addition to the new programming, we are pleased that the Indianapolis 500 will continue to appear on ABC/ESPN, maintaining a long Memorial Day tradition."



==========

not sure id hang my hat on that 'canned' response...but whatever you need to do to make this sit well is fine by me....



I think it's pretty clear that as an established fan we are going to see extended and hopefully better coverage in the short term...

my concern: initial low ratings will result in a down turn in commitment from V and in year 3 or so all the warm and fuzzies and promises will dwindle

[indycool]

Oh, sure, it's a prepared statement....but they probably wouldn't make it if they were against it.

I think you're right that we're going to have more programming, significantly so, plus programming on the Lights Series and it'll be uncluttered from NASCAR.

The ratings? Who really knows. They're not huge on the Mouse networks, so they really don't hafta have a lot to remain at least even. IMO, the fanbase grows much more from permanent courses than street courses, both road and oval, and it'll be the first full year of everyone together (well, at Long Beach, they're together everywhere else). Time will tell.

[bblocker68]

Kicked off?

More like went into rehab and made a full recovery.

The IRL is making $50 Million more off this deal than they would have gotten from ESPN.

The coverage will undoubtedly be better.

How is this a bad thing?

Easy.

I watch ESPN every day.

I've never turned the channel to Versus.

A few other may be in the same boat.

I have a feeling the TV ratings may drop just a tad :(

[garyshell]

Easy.

I watch ESPN every day.

I've never turned the channel to Versus.

A few other may be in the same boat.

I have a feeling the TV ratings may drop just a tad :(


So what's the matter, is your remote broken? Are you saying that even if you have Versus and know the races are on that channel, you are not go switch channels to watch? I am not sure I follow this logic.

I think the ratings may drop a bit because of folks not having Versus. But I sure don't see any affect in the markets where Versus is available.

Gary

[-Helix-]

So how much is production cost?

Why does it matter? It's not like the IRL is paying for the production. Versus just bought the rights to do just that.

If ESPN does the production, it will probably only be for the first year. Versus hasn't covered IndyCar before so they'll obviously need the help of people who do have experience producing IndyCar coverage. At least until they can handle it themselves.

When Versus got the NHL deal they relied heavily on local networks and their production crews to get things started because they obviously didn't have any experience with hockey broadcasts either.

[-Helix-]

I'm not sure how you're getting "$50 million more"... but $6 million a year is a far cry from the $40-$50 million a year you seemed to think was realistic a few days ago.

http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=512687&postcount=51

But hey, if the IRL can make this dog with fleas hunt, best of luck. Stay strong brother. There could be some rough sailing ahead.

That's funny, I don't see "a year" anywhere in my post. But you can keep trying to put words in my mouth.

And $60 Million is a lot higher than the rumored $10 Million contract ESPN was offered to re-up. And nobody ever said that was $10 Million A YEAR either. That's total payment.

The $10 Million A YEAR contract is what we have now, and ESPN said they would not be offering that much again. So this new $10 Million a year contract with Versus/ABC is a better deal. Try to keep up.

As for this "rough sailing", all I see is calm seas ahead. A great new TV contract with extended coverage and airtime? Great time to be an IndyCar fan.

Things finally look promising for once, now that we aren't trapped with crappy coverage being treated like second class citizens on ESPN where IndyCar would've ultimately died. IndyCar is a niche sport and will never be more than one. Not sure why everyone thinks IndyCar was going to become the next big thing by staying on ESPN and get treated like crap.

Will ratings suffer? Probably. But it's not like ratings were any better on ESPN. IndyCar's small hardcore fanbase will find ways to tune in and the difference in ratings probably won't be that big at all anyway.

[-Helix-]

Easy.

I watch ESPN every day.

I've never turned the channel to Versus.

A few other may be in the same boat.

I have a feeling the TV ratings may drop just a tad :(

Sounds more like a personal problem than the IRL's problem.

You must not be a very big fan if you're too lazy to change the channel.

If you have Versus and know that the race is on there, what excuse do you have?

It might take a while for some of the more casual fans to realize the IRL changed stations, but I honestly don't think the IRL has many casual fans to begin with. The majority of IndyCar fans are pretty hardcore race fans that will know what station to tune into.

[nigelred5]

To be honest, I rarely watch any of the ESPN channels any more. Waht happened to the days of Tom Mees, Aussie Rules football and real racing coverage?. Oh Yeah, ABC and Disney took over.

[indycool]

Nevermind. Helix already suggested to the poster that he change channels. 'Nuff said....but I really did have a good inappropriate one. :) :)

[Jag_Warrior]

That's funny, I don't see "a year" anywhere in my post. But you can keep trying to put words in my mouth.


So you believe that this obscure network will pay the IRL $40-$50 million a year ($30-$40 million above what ABC pays now), without Indy?

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You need to better spell out your meaning. That crooked thingie at the end indicates that I was asking a question. Since you didn't answer, I assumed that you knew what you meant, since I didn't. I guess you didn't either. :)



And $60 Million is a lot higher than the rumored $10 Million contract ESPN was offered to re-up. And nobody ever said that was $10 Million A YEAR either. That's total payment.

That's the first I've heard of $10 million being offered by ESPN, for a year or any other period. If not for a year, then what did this rumor have the contract length being?



The $10 Million A YEAR contract is what we have now, and ESPN said they would not be offering that much again. So this new $10 Million a year contract with Versus/ABC is a better deal. Try to keep up.

$10 million a year with Versus/ABC? So you're saying that Versus is paying $6 million a year (for 10 years) and ABC/ESPN is paying $4 million a year?



As for this "rough sailing", all I see is calm seas ahead. A great new TV contract with extended coverage and airtime? Great time to be an IndyCar fan.

Things finally look promising for once, now that we aren't trapped with crappy coverage being treated like second class citizens on ESPN where IndyCar would've ultimately died. IndyCar is a niche sport and will never be more than one. Not sure why everyone thinks IndyCar was going to become the next big thing by staying on ESPN and get treated like crap.


Keep the faith, brother. Keep the faith. Until you see the first race, I'm not sure how you know that the new coverage won't also be crappy. But like I said, keep the faith.



Will ratings suffer? Probably. But it's not like ratings were any better on ESPN. IndyCar's small hardcore fanbase will find ways to tune in and the difference in ratings probably won't be that big at all anyway.

Not exactly a vote of confidence there, Helix.

"That's right. We're going to move most of our races to a network that most people have never heard of... that reaches about 25% fewer homes than ESPN. Ratings will probably suffer. And this may only appeal to our small, hardcore fanbase. Other people may not be able to find the races and it's doubtful that anyone will stumble across them. But if they can't, that's their problem.

So... would you be interested in a multi-year primary sponsorship or a major associate sponsorship with full activation? Hey, where are you going?! Hey, stop! For $10 million, you can be the title sponsor of the entire series. Stop laughing! No, I don't know Joyce Julius, but I like the smoothies at Orange Julius. Do you think they'd want to sponsor the series? Dammit! Stop laughing!!! How about $5 million and a free autograph from Danica???"

Helix, you're looking at this from the perspective of a fan. If you're happy, that's all that matters (to you). How this will turn out, I'm not certain. But I believe I have read this book before.

[Jag_Warrior]

Two things: I've heard The Irl was getting 10 mil a year from the current contract. How is 6 a year a better deal? ESPN is still producing all the races, according to the news release. So why should we expect the race coverage to be better?

I still don't see how this is anything but a downgrade in the TV package.

It's the "new math". Don't try to figure it out.

For years, IRL fans said that the IRL's deal with ABC/ESPN was in the $20 million range annually. I always heard it was closer to $14 million. But whatever... the cash value of the deal was actually $10 million. But now, to make this puppy look better, some claim that (based on a rumor that I never heard) the "proposed" ABC/ESPN deal must have been no more than $10 million for multiple years, in order for this thing to be worth $50 million more than what ESPN was offering. Ten years under the current ABC/ESPN deal would be $100 million. This one is $60 million. However you spin it, that looks like a 40% pay cut to me.


Originally Posted by -Helix- http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=514463#post514463)

The IRL is making $50 Million more off this deal than they would have gotten from ESPN.



:confused: It's either new math or Enron accounting. Take yer pick. :D

[SarahFan]

Why does it matter? It's not like the IRL is paying for the production. .

cool...

now if you could just provide a link to back that up I'm sure it would support your position as well as ease a few minds about the finances of this deal...

thanks in advance

[BobbyC]

Versus is a Comcast (NASDAQ : CMCSA) channel. Comcast's national sports properties include partnerships with all broadcast networks (PBR with Fox and NBC, Le Tour in the past with CBS, PGA Tour FedEx Cup with CBS and NBC, America's Cup, NHL with NBC, WEC, Mountain West Conference with CBS (CCS*, Versus, and MWC jointly work on their own conference channel.).

Versus doesn't have their own HD channel at this time. Our local TWC outlet (Midlands SC) states Comcast has one HD sports channel that is split between The Golf Channel and Versus, both of which are Comcast channels.

Versus also has highlights packages of the USAR Hooters ProCup.

* CBS College Sports (fka CSTV).

[Jag_Warrior]

Versus is a Comcast (NASDAQ : CMCSA) channel. Comcast's national sports properties include partnerships with all broadcast networks (PBR with Fox and NBC, Le Tour in the past with CBS, PGA Tour FedEx Cup with CBS and NBC, America's Cup, NHL with NBC, WEC, Mountain West Conference with CBS (CCS*, Versus, and MWC jointly work on their own conference channel.).

Versus doesn't have their own HD channel at this time. Our local TWC outlet (Midlands SC) states Comcast has one HD sports channel that is split between The Golf Channel and Versus, both of which are Comcast channels.

Versus also has highlights packages of the USAR Hooters ProCup.

* CBS College Sports (fka CSTV).

Bobby, you'd mentioned a year or so ago that you believed that ABC/ESPN would make the IRL its "franchise" racing series. What do you think happened to prevent that?

[DBell]

Bobby, you'd mentioned a year or so ago that you believed that ABC/ESPN would make the IRL its "franchise" racing series. What do you think happened to prevent that?

LOL I know you asked Bobby, but I think it would have to be that NASCAR didn't vanish from the face of the earth.

I'd like to forget about the money for a moment. The races on Versus will probably pull ratings under .5, maybe half that. Why lock the series into a 10 year deal? If this was the best they could do, then why not a shorter deal?

To me, this is saying that they have a lack of confidence that the series can see the kind of growth to be attractive to a major network in 3-5 years.

To those that say Versus can grow into a powerful cable channel, well that's a possibility, but the odds are against it. Looking at the programing, it seems to be a channel of niche sports. And it just added another one.

[Wilf]

To me, this is saying that they have a lack of confidence that the series can see the kind of growth to be attractive to a major network in 3-5 years.

or

We are going to make a considerable investment in promoting this programming and we want be around to reap some of the rewards be that continued programming or a buy out.