The unluckiest retirement ever?

[stevie_gerrard]

After Massa lost out on a well deserved victory with just 3 laps to go thanks to a blown engine, i was trying to think of the last time a racing driver had performed so well and retired unfortunately. There was obviously Sutil this year when he reached 4th place before being shunted out by Raikkonen so close to the end. The last time i can think of a driver retiring from leading a race so convincingly was Mika Hakkinen in Spain quite a few years ago i believe.

Im sure someone has a much better memory than me, anyone else care to suggest an incident like the cases of Massa and Mika?

[ioan]

Hakkinen retired in the last lap or so.
There was also Alesi (I think) running out of fuel in the closing stages in one race.

In fact there were quite a few such retirement before 2000.

But in the era of super duper reliability when an engine should easily go 2 races, this certainly was the biggest blow I can think about.

[ChrisS]

Raikkonen retired on the last lap of the 2005 European Grand Prix while in the lead due to a suspension failure

[yodasarmpit]

Mansell accidentally hitting the power cut-off switch whilst waving to the crowd on the last lap.
Canada 91 I think.

[VkmSpouge]

Eric van de Poele in the Modena-Lamborghini at Imola in 1991 was running in 5th on the last lap of the race when his car ran out of fuel in sight of the flag was heart breaking.

Luca Badoer's Minardi break downing while in 4th place at the Nurburgring in 1999 was very sad. Poor Luca was crying beside the track.

While not a retirement Damon Hill losing power in the Arrows in 1997 at the Hungaroring to cost him a brilliant victory was very unlucky.

[Nikki Katz]

Luca Badoer's Minardi break downing while in 4th place at the Nurburgring in 1999 was very sad. Poor Luca was crying beside the track.
Definately, I think that was the most upsetting retirement I've seen. I know Minardi got a point anyway, but Badoer's would've been much more deserved. He never did score any points did he? Has to be some sort of record.

[jso1985]

Yep Badoer held's the record for most starts and no points(although with the current points system he'd have score points)

While I think Mansell's retirement in Canada 91 wasn't the unluckiest, it was the most stupid one!

[Mikeall]

Badoer probably has the the record for most miles driven in an F1 car without a win if you include testing.

[Valve Bounce]

I seem to remember Mansell losing a race in Adelaide (and possibly the championship) when his tyres blew. Not sure tho' as my memory is not that good these days. :(

[jonny hurlock]

Mika Hakkinen, Barcalona, in 2001, last lap, 40 seconds ahead of Michael Schumacher Ferrari, earn the race, until hydraulics failure ( or a engine failure )

[Rollo]

I seem to remember Mansell losing a race in Adelaide (and possibly the championship) when his tyres blew. Not sure tho' as my memory is not that good these days. :(

Yes indeedy - Adelaide 1986
Mansell's tyre exploded going down Dequetteville Terrace (or however the hell you spell that) in the most spectacular fashion which cost him not only the race but also the World Championship.

[Valve Bounce]

Yes indeedy - Adelaide 1986
Mansell's tyre exploded going down Dequetteville Terrace (or however the hell you spell that) in the most spectacular fashion which cost him not only the race but also the World Championship.

Yeah!! that sounds pretty unlucky :(

[Storm]

Hakkinen on the last lap in Spain 2001 (?).

Raikkonen a few years ago with suspension failure & Massa this year, especially as someone said in reliability era of post 2003/4 as it was quite common to see huge blowups in the mid/late 90s.

As for Mansell accidentally shutting of the engine?, sounds incredibly stupid rather than unlucky..

[ArrowsFA1]

While not a retirement Damon Hill losing power in the Arrows in 1997 at the Hungaroring to cost him a brilliant victory was very unlucky.
That gets my vote simply because Hill got that Arrows to the front of the field. It's so rare that we get to see a driver haul a car like that into that position.

Also I'd been waiting almost 20yrs for Arrows to get another shot at victory, and for the second time a win was snatched away from them :bigcry:

[Ranger]

Felipe's is up there in terms of recent unlucky retirements, but they were a hell of a lot more common before the re-introduction of re-fuelling in 1994.

Jim Clark lead from a lap down only to run out of fuel on the last lap at Monza, 1967. He also lost the championship in 1964 after a fuel leak on the last lap of the last race, so I've read.

A couple of people at Monaco, 1982.

Mansell blowing out of the lead at Adelaide in 1986 just after Rosberg did so a lap earlier.

Hakkinen at Spain, 2001.

Kimi at Hockenheim, Nurburgring and Imola 2005. All from the lead, all with maximum points going to Alonso.

Alonso's wheel falling off in Hungary 2006. He was still in the effective race lead from 15th on the grid (he was on slicks, Button still had to pit again), and he got diddly squat from his brilliant drive. That's still Alonso's best ever GP performance IMO.

Michael Schumacher's crash at the Belgian GP was very unlucky (note: please do NOT open this can of worms!) considering Hakkinen wasn't scoring any points, and he was in the lead by 40 seconds.

But there are many more.

[PolePosition_1]

Michael Schumacher's crash at the Belgian GP was very unlucky (note: please do NOT open this can of worms!) considering Hakkinen wasn't scoring any points, and he was in the lead by 40 seconds.



Indeed, very unfortunate for him to have made a mistake at such a vital point in the championship.

For me, not the last lap, but Adelaide 1994, after Schumacher accidently drove into the side of him when Damon had the inside line. Seeing Damon crawling the car back to the pits, and mechanics trying to bend the suspension back into place all in vain.

Breaks my heart, I got the DVD of that race, and I literally cannot watch it knowing what happens next.

That and Hungary 1997 are my two saddest moments watching F1.

[ioan]

Indeed, very unfortunate for him to have made a mistake at such a vital point in the championship.

DC owned up for that mistake, so you are just talking rubbish.

[Valve Bounce]

DC owned up for that mistake, so you are just talking rubbish.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! thems pretty harsh words. Attacking another poster will be frowned by janeppi!! :eek:

[PolePosition_1]

DC owned up for that mistake, so you are just talking rubbish.

Source it.

[ioan]

Source it.

Take a look to his comments around the 2003 French GP, it's all in there.

[PolePosition_1]

Take a look to his comments around the 2003 French GP, it's all in there.

Yep found some quotes, he says he was partly to blame, he shouldn't have lifted in the spray on the racing line.

But should Schumacher have been racing full speed with no vision when he knew a car (he was not racing and going to let him past in next few corners)was infront of him?

I guess thats a subjective (thanks for correcting me on works :) )opinion. To me it was a racing incident.

Though of course your welcome to think differently :)

[ShiftingGears]

Michael Schumacher's crash at the Belgian GP was very unlucky (note: please do NOT open this can of worms!)

Hah! :p :

[SGWilko]

DC owned up for that mistake, so you are just talking rubbish.

DC hit the back of his own car, while possesing the spirit of MS in the Ferrari?

The truth is out there, man. :s mokin: ;)

[Bezza]

If you crash into the back of a car on the road, you don't blame the guy in front. MS was too hasty and not careful. DC didn't do anything wrong.

[PolePosition_1]

If you crash into the back of a car on the road, you don't blame the guy in front. MS was too hasty and not careful. DC didn't do anything wrong.

Nah, thats not fair, DC was partly to blame.

You make a good real life example, but what if its pouring down with rain on motorway, your in the fast lane, and car infront just lifts off the throttle, ok, you should be more careful, but car infront should take some blame as well.

[SGWilko]

Nah, thats not fair, DC was partly to blame.

You make a good real life example, but what if its pouring down with rain on motorway, your in the fast lane, and car infront just lifts off the throttle, ok, you should be more careful, but car infront should take some blame as well.

If you are that close to the car in front on the motorway you are either;

A tw*t
White Van man (AKA a Tw*t)
A BMW Driver (See above)
A Merc Driver (see BMW driver above)

In the MS/DC scenario, why get so clse? Just pull off the racing line, out the spray from the car in front and overtake - he was after all that much quicker?

[ShiftingGears]

If you are that close to the car in front on the motorway you are either;

A tw*t
White Van man (AKA a Tw*t)
A BMW Driver (See above)
A Merc Driver (see BMW driver above)

In the MS/DC scenario, why get so clse? Just pull off the racing line, out the spray from the car in front and overtake - he was after all that much quicker?

He was lapping DC for gods sake. When you lap someone (especially when there is little visibility) you expect them to be predictable and
A) Pull off the racing line and slow to let you through.
B) continue driving at full speed until it's a safe area for them to pull over and slow to let you through.

NOT stay on the racing line and slow down anyway.

Unluckiest retirement - Webber at Fuji, closing in on Hamilton before the safety car, looking for his first win before becoming a victim of a Vettel brain fart.

[PolePosition_1]

If you are that close to the car in front on the motorway you are either;

A tw*t
White Van man (AKA a Tw*t)
A BMW Driver (See above)
A Merc Driver (see BMW driver above)

In the MS/DC scenario, why get so clse? Just pull off the racing line, out the spray from the car in front and overtake - he was after all that much quicker?

Thats why I'm saying its not DC's fault, its a racing incident, where both MS and DC should share the blame.

There is no set rules for overlapping cars, but the etiquette does seem to be to move off the racing line to let leaders past.

DC slowed down on the racing line in impossible conditions. Though not his fault, it wasn't the best action he could have done. And he should and fair play to him has acknowledged his role in the incident.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/06/1057430084085.html

[SGWilko]

He was lapping DC for gods sake. When you lap someone (especially when there is little visibility) you expect them to be predictable

If there is little visibility, do you expect DC to have seen MS behind him.

You assume the team told him about his closeness, so DC slowed to let him make an easy pass.

As we know, MS was in such a hurry he just kept the boot in......

[ChrisS]

You make a good real life example, but what if its pouring down with rain on motorway, your in the fast lane, and car infront just lifts off the throttle, ok, you should be more careful, but car infront should take some blame as well.

unless the car in front is moving below the motorway minimum speed for no good, then no it should not take the blame

[ShiftingGears]

If there is little visibility, do you expect DC to have seen MS behind him.

You assume the team told him about his closeness, so DC slowed to let him make an easy pass.

See point B)

[Andrewmcm]

So much for not opening that can of worms!

[PolePosition_1]

unless the car in front is moving below the motorway minimum speed for no good, then no it should not take the blame

Yeah, theres not much point comparing F1 with real life racing lol, too many rules on the road.

but the principles can still be applied :) .

[ChrisS]

Yeah, theres not much point comparing F1 with real life racing lol, too many rules on the road.

but the principles can still be applied :) .

Yes I know theres no point in comparing the two. I just said that because I'm speaking from experience.

About 2 weeks ago I ran into the back of a Mercedes on the motorway. I wasnt following to close either but as we both went hard on the brakes the Benz's ABS stopped the car while my old Toyota's brakes just locked the wheels and sent me sliding into the rear of the Mercedes. It was nothing serious fortunately, some scratches on his rear bumper and a broken grill for me.

[PolePosition_1]

Yes I know theres no point in comparing the two. I just said that because I'm speaking from experience.

About 2 weeks ago I ran into the back of a Mercedes on the motorway. I wasnt following to close either but as we both went hard on the brakes the Benz's ABS stopped the car while my old Toyota's brakes just locked the wheels and sent me sliding into the rear of the Mercedes. It was nothing serious fortunately, some scratches on his rear bumper and a broken grill for me.

Aw I'm sorry to hear that, glad you both escaped without too serious injuries.

Though I would point out to original scenario, the driver shouldn't be in fast lane if he is holding up faster driver behind him.

[gm99]

To get back to the original topic, one of the more unlucky retirements that have not yet been mentioned was Gerhard Berger three laps from the end of the 1996 Hockenheim race, which he had been leading from Damon Hill at that point. Of course, Gerhard came back to win the race one year later.

[ioan]

So much for not opening that can of worms!

:rotflmao:

[jens]

Jim Clark lead from a lap down only to run out of fuel on the last lap at Monza, 1967. He also lost the championship in 1964 after a fuel leak on the last lap of the last race, so I've read.


Yes, I personally consider 1964 Clark's retirement at the Mexican Grand Prix the unluckiest retirement in the history of F1, because... what can be unluckier than losing the WDC on the last lap?! It's way worse than losing "just" a win.

However, Jim didn't retire at Monza in 1967, but rolled over the line in third. Arguably his relentless driving in taking the full lap back was the reason of fuel shortage in the closing stages of the race.

In 1980's it happened several occasions that the leader lost the win in the closing stages after running out of fuel (like both Senna and Johansson at Imola in 1985).


If there is little visibility, do you expect DC to have seen MS behind him.

You assume the team told him about his closeness, so DC slowed to let him make an easy pass.

As we know, MS was in such a hurry he just kept the boot in......

If you're talking about visibility, then in the same way MS couldn't see anything, hence if DC had pulled off the racing line, it would have been a safer solution. Maybe (unconsciously or not) didn't quite have enough will to do it?

[MAX_THRUST]

Max's retirement will hopefuly be the unluckiest in history.....

Don't think DC could be blamed for that incident. He did what the blue flags said and slowed down. MS should have had the sense to be a little more cautious. After all the highway code says approach with caution. Mind when has race driver ever done that, they wouldn't be race drivers if they did.

Worst retirement I saw was in CART with MArk Blundell. Ran out of fuel whilst leading 400 yards max from the line gifting the win to Greg Moore. Detroit Bell Ilse Park, 1997 I think. He was driving a Mercedez, Reynard, for Pacwest racing, Motorola sponsored car. He had just past Muricio Guglemen (his team mate) not half a lap prior also due to running out of Fuel. Gregmoore won three races on the trot from that. I'm an anorak, I'm an Anorak.!!!

[ioan]

Max's retirement will hopefuly be the unluckiest in history.....

Yep, maybe Jean Todt will be the next FIA president! :rotflmao:



Don't think DC could be blamed for that incident. He did what the blue flags said and slowed down.

The blue flags mean that a driver that is being lapped has to get off the racing line, not to lift on the racing line.

[yodasarmpit]

So is this thread about the DC/MS incident or most unfortunate retirements?

[Knock-on]

The blue flags mean that a driver that is being lapped has to get off the racing line, not to lift on the racing line.

Wrong again.

During practice, it means to give way.

In the race, it is to allow someone to pass at the earliest moment.

You do not have to move off the racing line but merely let them pass.

:rolleyes:

[ioan]

It means the same thing during practice and during race.

[Knock-on]

It means the same thing during practice and during race.

Stop talking rubbish.

Find the regulations at http://www.fia.com

I cant be bothered

[Knock-on]

It means the same thing during practice and during race.


Go on, I feel sorry for you. Here it is in one of those Foreign languages you like so much.


Drapeau bleu clair :
Il devrait normalement être agité, pour indiquer à un pilote qu’il
est sur le point d’être dépassé. Il n’a pas la même signifi cation
pendant les essais et la course.
A tout moment :
- Un drapeau immobile devrait être présenté à un pilote quittant
les stands si une ou des voitures s’approchent sur la piste.
Pendant les essais :
- Cédez le passage à une voiture plus rapide qui s’apprête à
vous doubler.
Pendant la course :
- Ce drapeau devrait normalement être présenté à une voiture
sur le point d’être dépassée par une voiture qui par cette
manoeuvre comptera au moins un tour d’avance sur ce véhicule
et, lorsqu’il est présenté, le pilote concerné doit permettre à la
voiture qui suit de le dépasser à la première occasion.

For everyone else:


Light Blue flag:
This should normally be waved, as an indication to a driver that
he is about to be overtaken. It has different meanings during
practice and the race.
At all times :
- A stationary fl ag should be displayed to a driver leaving the pits
if traffi c is approaching on the track.
During practice :
- Give way to a faster car which is about to overtake you.
During the race :
- The fl ag should normally be shown to a car about to be
lapped and, when shown, the driver concerned must allow the
following car to pass at the earliest opportunity.

Sorry to burst your bubble old fruit but wrong again :p

[ioan]

Go on, I feel sorry for you. Here it is in one of those Foreign languages you like so much.



For everyone else:



Sorry to burst your bubble old fruit but wrong again :p

And what part of


the driver concerned must allow the following car to pass at the earliest opportunity.

didn't you understand?

I stay by my opinion, it means he has to move of the racing line as soon ASAP, not to slow down, thus the use of the word "opportunity".
I hate it when English speakers don't (or don't want to) understand their own language. :p :

[ioan]

Go on, I feel sorry for you. Here it is in one of those Foreign languages you like so much.

Oh you sensible little...whatever you would like to be called! :D

I can read it in plain English too, but you're right I have a penchant for French, among other languages! ;)

[BDunnell]

It means the same thing during practice and during race.

Might be nice were you to acknowledge the fact that you got this bit wrong. I'm not saying that I knew this before Knock-on posted it, merely that sometimes it's best not to carry on an argument for the sake of it.

[BDunnell]

Anyway, to take this back to the original topic, and without mentioning Spa 1998...


Yes, I personally consider 1964 Clark's retirement at the Mexican Grand Prix the unluckiest retirement in the history of F1, because... what can be unluckier than losing the WDC on the last lap?! It's way worse than losing "just" a win.

I would agree with that. As the voiceover of a period British TV or newsreel (I don't know which it was) report said, 'Cor, what a finale!' Nowadays, it would doubtless have been a 'disaster' or a 'tragedy'.

[ozrevhead]

Mark Webber last year (malaysia i think) Where Seb V ran into him whiest they were 2nd and 3rd

Wouldnt of happend if Lewis handnt squahsed them up like sardines under safety car - cant believe he got away with NOTHING!! :mad:

typical though - hes worse than MS when it comes to being 'punnished' (if you can call it that!!) by the FIA

[PolePosition_1]

Knock On wins this one.

It clearly states letting a driver past, not how it should be done, whether it be going offl line or not.

Though the etiquette is to move off the racing line.

[ioan]

Though the etiquette is to move off the racing line.

Because if they stay on the racing line they are impeding the faster driver, instead of letting him through.

[PolePosition_1]

Because if they stay on the racing line they are impeding the faster driver, instead of letting him through.

The rule doesn't make a mention of not allowed to slow down the driver behind.

If it did, about 90% of overlappers would get penalised over the course of the race.

Its reasonable, you let driver past at first possible opportunity, whether that be on or off racing line.

Surely you've seen the leaders go off line in the past as the slower cars refuse to go off line. Theres never been penalty.....because its not against the rules, but the etiquette is to move off racing line - but thats not a must. Its up the the car being overlapped.

[52Paddy]

A very recent one which hasn't been mentioned was Webber at Silverstone this year. Just a few corners in and he spins off, right to the back end of the field. I really thought he could have put Red Bull on the podium but my heart sank when he spun so early. Not unlucky but still worth mentioning.

[ioan]

Surely you've seen the leaders go off line in the past as the slower cars refuse to go off line. Theres never been penalty.....because its not against the rules, but the etiquette is to move off racing line - but thats not a must. Its up the the car being overlapped.

A link would help support your point.

[PolePosition_1]

A link would help support your point.


How about a fact?

NEVER has a driver been penalised for not moving off the racing line when letting a leader through.

I been watching F1 since 1994, and I've never seen it happen.

And theres no mention of it in the rule book that a driver has to move off the line.

I honestly don't know what else it takes to show you your incorrect.

We're not arguing about an opinion over here, which is subjective to the individual.

Your actually trying to argue a fact! I honestly cannot believe it.

[Knock-on]

A link would help support your point.

The rules are there in black and white ioan. There is absolutely no merit in your argument.


This should normally be waved, as an indication to a driver that
he is about to be overtaken. It has different meanings during
practice and the race.

2 different meanings for practice and the race. 1st point you are 100% wrong on.


During practice :
- Give way to a faster car which is about to overtake you.

Give way as in move off line. We have seen drivers penalised who have not moved off line in qualifying.


During the race :
- The flag should normally be shown to a car about to be
lapped and, when shown, the driver concerned must allow the
following car to pass at the earliest opportunity.

Drivers to let the cars pass. It does not say they have to give way and specifically states that the 2 uses of the flag are different for use in the race and not in the race.

I posted it in French so you cannot play the language card. Would you like me to get it translated into Finnish?

You are 100% wrong on both points so just accept it or argue with the FIA, not me.

[MAX_THRUST]

Why does every thread turn into the Ioan I know best show? C'mon Ioan sometimes your wrong. Most people admit that they are wrong.

Also are you aware that some of your posts in English can be miss interpreted and come across as being rude and impolite?

I'm not having a go at you I just think you should know some of your posts seem offensive sometimes and a smilley face does not always m,ake it right or polite.

[VkmSpouge]

I think another unfortunate retirement must have been of Andrea de Cesaris in the 1991 Belgium Grand Prix. I think he had been running up in second place and closing in on Senna's McLaren.

[markabilly]

Yes, I personally consider 1964 Clark's retirement at the Mexican Grand Prix the unluckiest retirement in the history of F1, because... what can be unluckier than losing the WDC on the last lap?! It's way worse than losing "just" a win.

However, Jim didn't retire at Monza in 1967, but rolled over the line in third. Arguably his relentless driving in taking the full lap back was the reason of fuel shortage in the closing stages of the race.

?


Finally someone gets it right, amen

[jjanicke]

After Massa lost out on a well deserved victory with just 3 laps to go thanks to a blown engine, i was trying to think of the last time a racing driver had performed so well and retired unfortunately. There was obviously Sutil this year when he reached 4th place before being shunted out by Raikkonen so close to the end. The last time i can think of a driver retiring from leading a race so convincingly was Mika Hakkinen in Spain quite a few years ago i believe.

Im sure someone has a much better memory than me, anyone else care to suggest an incident like the cases of Massa and Mika?

I'm sorry to be so blunt!!!!!

NOT EVEN CLOSE!

"Scumi" ( ;) ) in Japan, I can't count how many races Kimi has had stolen from him, MH, JPM, ... 3 laps or not. It doesn't matter. Clearly leading the race and blowing up well into the race is the same as doing it 3 laps from the finish IMO.