Honda status in 2004

[AndySpeed]

This is a very simple question but its just bugged me, probably a really easy answer as well.

Everywhere I've looked, Honda have been listed as second in the 2004 Manufacturers Standings. However Tom Chilton was the only 'works' Honda that year, alongside the two TD cars which weren't works cars.

Tom Chilton alone can't have amassed 548 points, so why have Honda been listed as second? Special dispensation?

[#1JamesThompsonFan]

Perhaps TD were listed as Manufacturers aswell, considering they ran away with the Independents Title

[AndySpeed]

Perhaps TD were listed as Manufacturers aswell, considering they ran away with the Independents Title

Not in 2004 they didn't; they were third and fourth. WSR 'ran away' with the Independents title that year.

[Alfa Fan]

Independent car's can be nominated to score for a manufacturer, well they could in 2004, not sure if they still can.

[SEATFreak]

2004 was the year Honda pulled out of preparing the famous red & black Honda Racing Civic Type R's and Tom Chilton was the driver to race the Team Honda Civic Type R with the 'Star Wars Lego' sponsorship.


Not in 2004 they didn't; they were third and fourth. WSR 'ran away' with the Independents title that year.

Reid won it with 312 from team-mate Turks with 300. TD were indeed 3rd (Eaves) and 4th (Neal). With Eaves one point better of than Neal with Eaves on 254 and Neal on 253.


Independent car's can be nominated to score for a manufacturer, well they could in 2004, not sure if they still can.

Don't know. Does it not first surely depend on whether a marquee has a works entry to begin with?

I mean Turks and Jackson have been practically scoring points for fun lately I feel. They have been really strong racers. But going on the possibility that the idea that a manufacturer does indeed have to have a works entry first for Independent entries to score points for the manufacturer of their cars may be true, because BMW don't have a works entry I can't see how WSR, Motorbase Peformance and BMW Dealership UK can score points for BMW.

I think in the current era where theirs only two manufacturers, if Independent entries can score points for the manufacturer of their cars, only Arkas for Vauxhall and Team Air Cool/GR Asia & BTC Racing for SEAT can score points.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Doesn't the manufacturer just select two cars to score points? Or is that just for the teams championship?

[VkmSpouge]

Independent car's can be nominated to score for a manufacturer, well they could in 2004, not sure if they still can.

I guess since the works SEATs and Vauxhalls are generally far ahead of privateers running their cars, they don't have to. You're right in 2004 independents could be nominated to score points for works teams. Matt Neal and Dan Eaves therefore helped Honda a lot but James Kaye, Richard Marsh, John George and Jay Wheals could all have been nominated as well.

[LiamM]

Don't know. Does it not first surely depend on whether a marquee has a works entry to begin with?

I've never seen marquee racing before is it any good?

[SEATFreak]

I've never seen marquee racing before is it any good?

I think you know what I mean by "marquee". I have heard others talk about it. Not just me. I think it is the name given to the brand the manufacturer has. All manufacturers have it.

[Alfa Fan]

I think you know what I mean by "marquee". I have heard others talk about it. Not just me. I think it is the name given to the brand the manufacturer has. All manufacturers have it.

So all manufacturer's are tents now....marque might be the word your looking for.

[SEATFreak]

Yes it is. I just didn't know how it was spelt that's all. Whether their was one "e" or two. It is just some words are spelt the same and is pronounced the same but mean different things. I was wary of it being any different so I just spelt it with two.

[VX_Rules]

Tent Racing would be amazing. haha. Not very quick though.

So your saying technically. If Vauxhall wanted to, they could ignore their works drivers and nominate Erkut and Martin to score the points on their behalf?

And at the rate Seats going at probably better to nominate Jones instead of Turner...

[Martin-MC]

Tent racing is no good, sadly its dominated by Poles!!!!!!!

[SEATFreak]

So your saying technically. If Vauxhall wanted to, they could ignore their works drivers and nominate Erkut and Martin to score the points on their behalf?

Where on earth do I imply that! I say nothing of the kind absolutely nowhere! I am really offended that you could think I could make that absolutely absurd remark. Because it is. You think I don't know the rules in the BTCC. You really think I think it is in the regs for VXR to be able to leave Arkas to score points for them.

How did you turn the comment that sated "I think in the current era where theirs only two manufacturers, if Independent entries can score points for the manufacturer of their cars, only Arkas for Vauxhall........can score points" into "I think in this current era where theirs only two manufacturers Arkas can only score points for Vaxhall"? Maybe in my statement I should have inserted "aswell" in a place where it would have made sense.

But it would have been sad if I did because I really didn't think you had to have it pointed out to you that I have a very good, if not perfect, grasp of the allocation of points in the Manufacturers Championship. That I am aware an Independent aswell as the manufacturer themselves are eligible to score points. Providing of course the Independent runs a make and model belonging to said manufacturer. I don't understand how you could entertain the notion I think WSR are eligible to score points for Vauxhall.


Tent Racing would be amazing. haha. Not very quick though.

Would be a good series for SEAT tho. They are a team that are about as strong as a tent. And certainly, like a tent, in a heavy storm SEAT are likely to collapse in on you and make everyone miserable.

[VX_Rules]

Oh my god, Chill. It was in response to VKMSpouge, and no way was my response being negative, its genuinely an intrigueing question. In how, he said any of the Honda drivers that year could have been nominated.

But seriously, dont get so bloomin over protective! It wasnt even in response to you! Please give me more credit and read my response clearly too, that at no point I ever said that a team could score points for a whole different manufacturer.

And as for Seat in tent Racing, they might have more of a chance indeed.

[SEATFreak]

It was in response to VKMSpouge.

A quote would have helped heaps.



Please give me more credit and read my response clearly too, that at no point I ever said that a team could score points for a whole different manufacturer.

Welcome to my world.

[VkmSpouge]

So your saying technically. If Vauxhall wanted to, they could ignore their works drivers and nominate Erkut and Martin to score the points on their behalf?

I'm not certain if they can do it now.

[LiamM]

1.6.3. The Manufacturers Championship: Points will be awarded to a maximum of two nominated
S2000 cars (see CR 5.1) of the same make provided they are listed as a classified finisher in the
Final Results. A manufacturer must nominate a maximum of two cars in writing at or before the
Drivers’ Briefing at each Meeting of the Championship. Points will be awarded as per the format
of points scoring for the Drivers Championship except that the additional point for Pole Position
and the additional point for Fastest Lap and the additional point for leading a Race will not be
awarded. The other placings of the same make will be ignored. Only the manufacturers/importers
that have registered for the Championship will be eligible for points

The above is from this years regs

So yes SF VXR could nominate the Arkas cars for Manufacturer points, as long as they are of the same make

The only limitation is BMW cant score manufacturers points as they havent entered (obviously)

So if VXR didnt turn up to a meeting for whatever reason on Friday they could nominate the Arkas cars and still gain points - its a rule that encourages manufacturers to sell on their cars

EDIT: Just read it a second time, they need to be S2000 cars, so Arkas would need some Vectras for this scenario to work, but it is still possible for SEAT to nominate Jones instead of Turner (and maybe a BTC-Racing Toledo too)

[VX_Rules]

I'm not certain if they can do it now.

Look im Quoting SeatFreak! Question answered:


The above is from this years regs

So yes SF VXR could nominate the Arkas cars for Manufacturer points, as long as they are of the same make

The only limitation is BMW cant score manufacturers points as they havent entered (obviously)

So if VXR didnt turn up to a meeting for whatever reason on Friday they could nominate the Arkas cars and still gain points - its a rule that encourages manufacturers to sell on their cars

EDIT: Just read it a second time, they need to be S2000 cars, so Arkas would need some Vectras for this scenario to work, but it is still possible for SEAT to nominate Jones instead of Turner (and maybe a BTC-Racing Toledo too)

Well, maybe Seat should nominate Jones instead, he is finishing races after all...

And I do believe next year that Arkas have Vectras, I think... Not that VX will nominate them...

[SEATFreak]

The only limitation is BMW cant score manufacturers points as they havent entered (obviously)

That I totally agreed with you on. An Independent cannot score points for a manufacturer if they don't have a works entry.

But I think if BMW did enter a smaller works team into the BTCC (could they mount a larger effort given their operation in the WTCC what with supplying cars to ROAL and RBM and helping out Schnitzer?) unquestionably they would have a very good choice of strong Independent teams running the 320si's given the recent performances of Kane, Turks and Jackson.


its a rule that encourages manufacturers to sell on their cars.

Might it also encourage the works cars to sell to teams who have a decent history of preparing cars to run quite strongly?

[LiamM]

If BMW enter the BTCC, it will be a similar set up to SEAT, BMW supply the cars to team X with some support - my bet would be WSR, but this is taking the thread off topic

[Eurotech]

If BMW enter the BTCC, it will be a similar set up to SEAT, BMW supply the cars to team X with some support - my bet would be WSR, but this is taking the thread off topic

Or Mat Jackson.....

[LiamM]

Or Mat Jackson.....

The teams a bit small, no offence to Jacksons team, but WSR are a proven team with a good history - things like that and easily sway decisions

[Eurotech]

but Mat is running very well and is consistantly as fast or quicker than the wsr run cars. and is run by the 'dealer' team which many teams seem to think is a works entry....

[tintin]

So your saying technically. If Vauxhall wanted to, they could ignore their works drivers and nominate Erkut and Martin to score the points on their behalf?

And at the rate Seats going at probably better to nominate Jones instead of Turner...

As has already been explained, yes, although not with the Arkas cars because they are not s2000.

But back in 2004 VX would have scored more points if they had nominated (the independent) Michael Bentwood rather than works driver Luke Hines in some races.