Mansell, Prost or Senna

[Cozzie]

Ok here is a question that will cause much debate. It has no doubt been discussed in the past but I am re-opening it. Who is the better of these three? My vote is for Mansell! :)

[GJD]

Speed is something undoubtedly had in spades but something tells me most historians would find it difficult to concur with your assessment.

[ShiftingGears]

I thought Prost outgunned Mansell at Ferrari...?

I'd say Senna due to his ability in the wet and his raw speed, especially in qualifying.

[K-Pu]

Poll please?

My vote goes for Senna because his "concentration" abilities in qualifying. And because he was my favourite when I started watching F1. Sadly it was in 1993-1994, and I dind´t see too much of him.

[Cozzie]

Poll please?

My vote goes for Senna because his "concentration" abilities in qualifying. And because he was my favourite when I started watching F1. Sadly it was in 1993-1994, and I dind´t see too much of him.

How do you make a poll?

[harsha]

i can't see how Mansell can be included in the same league as Senna and Proust......but my choice will always be Aryton Senna

[Mifune]

Mansell brought something different, something less tangible to F1, he had something special that drew people to him (though not me).
He inspired devotion from fans, with his (melo) dramatic persona and antics.
I think he was as important to F1 as Senna or Prost because of the interest he created and following he drew.
Greatness is a strange thing to qualify, i think Senna and Prost made each other greater by how they affected each other psychologically and physically, i guess to a lesser extent that was mansells contribution to that era too.

As for his relative abilities compared to the other 2, I am not sure he could entirely match up, though on his day he could take the race to both of them.

[ArrowsFA1]

Poll

[Valentino Rossi Boy]

I chose Senna because he die as great racing driver in F1 :)

[futuretiger9]

Mansell had the aggression and the racing instincts, Prost the tactical acumen and finesse. It could be argued that Senna successfully combined all of these elements, together with great charisma, to make a true legend who transcended his sport.

[captin 1 VXR]

hard one this. senna just so fast from the off . mansell bulldog grit prost thinks about it and thinks till he finished the race . ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what one mmmmmm

mansell as he tryed to beat up senna and few others along the way

[jens]

Tough call between Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost. Senna's raw speed was more impressive, but Prost was more "strategical" and scored more points than Ayrton, when they drove together.

[akv89]

Statistically speaking, Senna is the best and Mansell doesn't compare. Senna raced in about 40 races less than Prost but still had many more poles than him, and was also only ten victories and one championship short. If Senna was able to finish his career alive and participate in as many races as Schumacher, then his records would be on par with MS's (that's a scary thought).

[Cozzie]

Mansell was very unlucky to not win about four titles and he was not at his best when he was up against Prost at Ferrari.
IMO Senna wouldn't be rated half as great if it wasn't for Imola 94.

[futuretiger9]

Yes, Senna's legend has been inflated slightly due to Imola '94, but you have to say he was rated as one of the greats even before then.

On the other hand, Alain Prost's stock has fallen in recent years.

Mansell definitely deserved a world title, for the drama and excitement which he contributed to F1. However, he sometimes lacked the wily political skills of Senna and Prost.

[jens]

Death of course makes a driver more legendary (without Imola'94 Ratzenberger would be as unknown as for example Luiz Perez Sala), but I still voted for Senna. From those three I'd say Senna's raw speed was most impressive, especially in qualis and wet conditions. By raw speed in 1988 Prost and Senna were quite close, but in 1989 Senna was more clearly faster, just having several mechanical gremlins that prevented him to win the title. He also scored more wins on both seasons than Prost. At the same time from those three I'd say Prost was the most consistent racer as Senna and Mansell both made stupid mistakes sometimes.

Mansell was unlucky not to win more titles, but his reputation suffers due to quite clearly losing to Prost in 1990, despite having more experience with the team as Alain was new to the team. It was said that Ferrari favoured Prost, but we might expect that a team wouldn't start concentrating on someone without a good reason, which means that this #1 should be better as a driver to deserve being favoured.

[akv89]

Mansell was very unlucky to not win about four titles and he was not at his best when he was up against Prost at Ferrari.
You could say that all three of them were unlucky to win more titles. They all had their moments in 2nd place, Prost especially. And who knows how many more titles Senna would have won if he was not killed at Imola.

[wedge]

Senna, but only just!

As we all know they were unique in way or another and had their own driving styles, race-craft and tactics.

Prost was the ultimate tactician - hardly anyone would mention him after the race even though he won it!

Mansell was the underdog who used every grit and determination during the race with stunning overtaking manoeuvres. Mr Entertainment - which was why he was adored by many.

Senna was stupidly quick. I think his trump was that he turned racing/driving into a science and artform.

Piquet deserves a mention as well. He was a mixture of Prost and Senna, quick on his day but often drove whilst thinking of the Championship.

[Bezza]

Its Senna easily. All of them were absolute geniuses behind the wheel, in different ways, but Senna is the one who stood out above the rest. Unbelievable charisma, dogged determination, fiery temper, and blindingly fast in both the dry and the wet! Rain is a great leveller, and Senna was untouchable.

Donington 93 is the finest example of driving skill I have ever seen.

[fly_ac]

Senna - 1st (only just)
Prost - 2nd
Mansell - 3rd (only because there are no other options)

[ArrowsFA1]

Senna for me, but only just over Prost. They were two very different drivers who achieved similar results. Senna was absorbed by racing, totally committed and blindingly quick.

Prost never seemed that quick, and yet he clearly was. In comparison with Senna he showed little emotion, rarely seemed rattled, and simply got on with the job of winning races and championships.

Competing against eachother brought out the best in both, even more so as we got to see them race the same car in the same team for two years.

IMHO Mansell does not belong in the same company as these two. Yes he could be exciting to watch at times, and yes he could be quick when everything was going his way, but in the same car he wouldn't have been able to live with Prost or Senna over a season.

[fly_ac]

Senna for me, but only just over Prost. They were two very different drivers who achieved similar results. Senna was absorbed by racing, totally committed and blindingly quick.

Prost never seemed that quick, and yet he clearly was. In comparison with Senna he showed little emotion, rarely seemed rattled, and simply got on with the job of winning races and championships.

Competing against eachother brought out the best in both, even more so as we got to see them race the same car in the same team for two years.

IMHO Mansell does not belong in the same company as these two. Yes he could be exciting to watch at times, and yes he could be quick when everything was going his way, but in the same car he wouldn't have been able to live with Prost or Senna over a season.

Agree 100% :up:

[Georgeboi999]

Senna was fast and he had a good personality

Senna for me, but only just over Prost. They were two very different drivers who achieved similar results. Senna was absorbed by racing, totally committed and blindingly quick.

Prost never seemed that quick, and yet he clearly was. In comparison with Senna he showed little emotion, rarely seemed rattled, and simply got on with the job of winning races and championships.

Competing against eachother brought out the best in both, even more so as we got to see them race the same car in the same team for two years.

IMHO Mansell does not belong in the same company as these two. Yes he could be exciting to watch at times, and yes he could be quick when everything was going his way, but in the same car he wouldn't have been able to live with Prost or Senna over a season.

If you had put Alain above Senna, I'd agree 100%.

I know that there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics, but.....

My problem with Senna's statistics is a simple one but one that I never hear anyone else mention. Twice as many poles as wins, or thereabouts. Alain's stats are pretty much the exact opposite.

That, my dear boys, means Alain has much better stats from race day....and race day is when it matters.

[ArrowsFA1]

That, my dear boys, means Alain has much better stats from race day....and race day is when it matters.
Very true. Senna "only just" edges it for me over Prost largely because for the fans in the stands I think he was more exciting to watch. I have the feeling that Prost's success was founded on preparation (getting the car set up to win the race as you point out) rather than outright speed. I suspect he was similar to Stewart in that sense, and I don't see Stewart as a 'spectacular' driver.

[futuretiger9]

Particularly during the turbo years, Prost was a master at judging things like tyre wear, fuel consumption and general set-up, and was great at preserving his car. His strength was "finding a way to win". Senna combined many of these attributes with his passion,ambition and outright pace. This was what made him such a unique talent.

[Simpson RX1]

No great debate from me; from the minute I saw him at a wind and rain swept Brands Hatch in the early 80s, the shy, retiring and barely English speaking Ayrton Senna Da Silva was always going to be one of the sport's greats; even my Altzheimer's afflicted Dad remembers the day I came home and told him I'd witnessed possibly the best driver I'd ever seen don helmet and overalls.

He was never my favourite person, and his tactics were sometimes questionable, but in an age where column inches meant as much as track performance, Senna was a tour de force with no equal; I will admit Prost comes a close second, but Mansell wasn't fit to tie Senna's shoelaces.

[EuroTroll]

My problem with Senna's statistics is a simple one but one that I never hear anyone else mention. Twice as many poles as wins, or thereabouts. Alain's stats are pretty much the exact opposite.

That, my dear boys, means Alain has much better stats from race day....and race day is when it matters.

What sort of logic is that? :confused:

Senna won 25.5 % of the races he started, Prost won 25.9 %. "Much better stats from race day"? :confused:

[EuroTroll]

In case you're wondering, Mansell won 16.6 % of his races..

[ArrowsFA1]

Senna:
Poles - 65 (40.4%)
Wins - 41 (25.5%)
Podiums - 80 - (49.7%)
Fastest Laps - 19 (11.8%)

Prost:
Poles - 33 (16.6%)
Wins - 51 (25.6%)
Podiums - 106 (53.3%)
Fastest Laps - 41 (20.6%)

Mansell:
Poles - 32 (17.1%)
Wins - 31 (16.6%)
Podiums - 59 (31.6%)
Fastest Laps - 30 (16%)

For someone who didn't look very fast Prost certainly set a lot of fastest laps, which supports tamburello's point that Prost got it right on raceday.

[raphael123]

Prost.

Senna is a legend, but his death has made him idolised, and people are biased towards him because he died from racing.

If Senna was still alive, I think it would be pretty even. And if it was Alain who was a loud character, I think people wouldn't even think twice about placing Alain as the No1 over Senna. Personality has a larger role in influencing people's opinion even though personality shouldn't be part of the equation.

Also, Senna was a poor sportsman. It's only because he's dead we seem to overlook it, or put it aside, or blame it on passion. However Schumacher continued to do it, and got blasted for it (and rightly so I think!). Because Senna was such a religious person, he believed he would never die racing, no matter what he did. This was very dangerous for other drivers around him, and resulted in him doing some pretty unsporting thing! But he's dead, so R.I.P and let's forget it all :S

[ArrowsFA1]

...Because Senna was such a religious person, he believed he would never die racing, no matter what he did....
This comes from a comment made by Prost, as is not something Senna actually said he believed AFAIK.

[ShiftingGears]

Prost.

Senna is a legend, but his death has made him idolised, and people are biased towards him because he died from racing.

If Senna was still alive, I think it would be pretty even. And if it was Alain who was a loud character, I think people wouldn't even think twice about placing Alain as the No1 over Senna. Personality has a larger role in influencing people's opinion even though personality shouldn't be part of the equation.

Also, Senna was a poor sportsman. It's only because he's dead we seem to overlook it, or put it aside, or blame it on passion. However Schumacher continued to do it, and got blasted for it (and rightly so I think!). Because Senna was such a religious person, he believed he would never die racing, no matter what he did. This was very dangerous for other drivers around him, and resulted in him doing some pretty unsporting thing! But he's dead, so R.I.P and let's forget it all :S

Drivers such as Villeneuve and Rosemeyer never believed they would die racing. And they have never been accused of anything unsporting at all. So its not because of that. I think its just down to the fact that Senna would do everything possible to win in his extreme one mindedness. Completely Ruthless. It still angers me how he patronisingly responded to Jackie Stewarts question about how Senna was involved in more accidents than previous champions. Considering that Jackie Stewarts safety campaign was never meant to eventually result in drivers exploiting the safety of the circuits by intentionally punting off your opponents at 200kmh+ his response was just INSULTING.

The fact remains though that he was a brilliant driver and edges ahead of Prost for me due to his wet weather ability.

[raphael123]

ArrowsFA1, so did Senna not believe he would never die from racing? If so I take it back :) However it doesn't really change anything, some of his actions were unsporting, and a danger to other drivers.


theugsquirrel

I don't know enough about Villeneuve and Rosemeyer to comment, but I don't know them to have punted another driver off deliberately.

People defending Senna's unsporting and dangerous moves by saying it was a passion to win a ruthlessness doesn't make it any more wrong or acceptable by any means.

But your right, a great driver, an all time great, but I would have put Prost above :)

[ArrowsFA1]

I don't know enough about Villeneuve and Rosemeyer to comment, but I don't know them to have punted another driver off deliberately.
Keke Rosberg :

"To Gilles, racing truly was a sport, which is why he would never chop you. Something like that he'd look on with contempt. You didn't have to be a good driver to do that, let alone a great one. Anyone could do that. Gilles was the hardest ******* I ever raced against, but completely fair. If you'd beaten him to a corner, he accepted it and gave you room. Then he'd be right back at you at the next one! Sure, he took unbelievable risks - but only with himself - and that's why I get pissed off now when people compare Senna with him. Gilles was a giant of a driver, yes, but he was also a great man."

[raphael123]

Keke Rosberg :

lol so you basically saying I'm right?

[ArrowsFA1]

Just providing food for the mind ;)

[GridGirl]

For me it will always be Mansell. I grew up a Mansell fan and I dont think he can ever be surpassed for me, but he wasnt the greatest driver out of the choices given by any means.

You never know, his sons may eclipse all three of them in the future. Its a long shot, but it could happen.

[EuroTroll]

For me it will always be Mansell. I grew up a Mansell fan and I dont think he can ever be surpassed for me, but he wasnt the greatest driver out of the choices given by any means.

You never know, his sons may eclipse all three of them in the future. Its a long shot, but it could happen.

I guess I, in a way, understand what you're saying. For me it will always be Senna. :) Because I grew up a Senna fan, overwhelmed by the power of his personality.

And even though I've now, in my twenties, grown also to realize the deficient effects of his approach to racing, I'm sure I'll never again be quite so impressed with another driver again. My impressionable youth is gone. And all the current drivers seem simply very successful people to me - not Gods, as Senna once did (and to some degree, always will do).

[ShiftingGears]

Just providing food for the mind ;)


Out of interest, where did you find that quote from Keke?

[xtlm]

Mansell
If for no other reason then the fact that he is the only one to win on oval also (winning on all four types of courses)

[sezix]

All 3 very good.

Mansell great at attacking and fast and coming back. But had too many weaknesses for example being weak at mentality games and other areas. A fantastic driver but not quite as natural as Senna. But Senna was Senna.

Prost a thinking driver who made very few mistakes and smooth and knew how to win titles. A great tactical driver.

But Senna wins it for me. A very natural driver who could win in anything. The fastest driver ever, best at passing and defending, great at mind games. Also very near to the limit, always at the limit so he did make a few mistakes down the line.

Senna and Schumacher (i know off topic) best drivers in the past 40 years.

[futuretiger9]

Mansell
If for no other reason then the fact that he is the only one to win on oval also (winning on all four types of courses)


I suspect though that Senna and Prost would have won on ovals, given the opportunity.