Qualifying Issues

I’ll stick my neck out by raising this topic and expressing the opinion that purpose made "qualifying" tyres should not be used to determine grid positions for a race and that grid positions should be determined according to the combined times achieved during the two official qualifying sessions using tyres of the same design and compound as those included in the range of tyres approved for the actual race.

On the same issue, I see no point in even having a Superpole or similar shootout apart from the spectacle itself given that these sessions are not representative of actual race conditions.


Opinions, criticism and abuse below please! :grenade:

[The Phantom]

There's a fair bit of sense in that Rod. Why qualify at the front if your race tyres are going to send you backwards when the flag drops?

I think qualifying has risen in importance because of the spectacle - getting the punters in on the Saturday, getting rights for the footage, having a sponsor onboard for best qualifier (eg. Briel in WSB)... it's become a part of the gravy train.

WSB are dropping Superpole for 09, I don't know anything about it yet, but perhaps it's a step in the right direction.

Perhaps Dorna should look at ditching qualifying tyres in their bid for parity between the teams/riders?

[markabilly]

There's a fair bit of sense in that Rod. Why qualify at the front if your race tyres are going to send you backwards when the flag drops?

I think qualifying has risen in importance because of the spectacle - getting the punters in on the Saturday, getting rights for the footage, having a sponsor onboard for best qualifier (eg. Briel in WSB)... it's become a part of the gravy train.

WSB are dropping Superpole for 09, I don't know anything about it yet, but perhaps it's a step in the right direction.

Perhaps Dorna should look at ditching qualifying tyres in their bid for parity between the teams/riders?


I agree about the qualifying tires, but actually like the superpole idea
Added something to the spectalce

[patnicholls]

I can't help but think that qualifying tyres unnecessarily push costs up and don't have any impact on viewing figures - the people who watch qualifying sessions on TV would be doing so whatever tyres the riders are on, surely?

Superpole has one benefit - that you get a good look at some of the riders who in a race you won't see on TV (the Muggeridges, Nakatomis, etc of this world) but to be honest that's about it for me.

A conventional session (like what happened at Brands after the weather intervened) or an F1-style elimination - which is what is going to happen - are far more appealing in my humble opinion. [As I understand, the WSB session will take the top 20, then four riders will be eliminated, then eight more to leave eight battling for pole]

[MrJan]

I also don't see the point in qualy tyres, apart from to let crowds see the fastest laps possible. However it might be something to do with the riders who feel safer and more comfortable with pushing only on tyres which they feel they can trust (I don't believe that comment BTW, just trying to think of the point of super-softs :) )

I located a May 2006 interview relating to this particular topic on Crashnet in which Michelin’s motorcycle racing director Nicolas Goubert provided the following responses.......(complete article should be read to put comments in context).

I was surprised to find that (as at May 06) Michelin wasn't producing a front qualifying tyre. Don't know whether they do now.

“…………..The extra grip available maybe improves corner entry a little, but the main differences are grip at maximum lean angle and, most of all, corner-exit traction.

We have never wanted to put too much emphasis on qualifying tyres. In fact we’ve never really been happy with the whole concept of qualifying tyres. They may improve lap times during qualifying but they also reduce the amount of time available to riders to work on race set-up, which is much more important.

We use qualifiers because to be competitive we have to, but they don’t improve the show for the fans and they do raise safety issues; if a rider is out on a qualifier which he knows will only do one good lap, he will do just about anything to overtake any slower riders on that lap…………..

We first started using them in World Superbike, after the introduction of Superpole (which allows riders just one qualifying lap). We didn’t need them in GPs until some of our rivals started using them. We started using qualifiers in 500s in 1999……….”

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/feature/9314-0/qa_michelin_qualifying_tyres.html

[neninja]

It would be very hard to eliminate Qualifying tyres unless a rule was introduced that you had to race on the tyres with which you set your fastest lap in the Qualifying session (except wet sessions)

That way riders could spend the 3 free practise sessions deciding which tyre would give the best race set up and then use that tyre in Qualifying. It would give a representative grid and could mean a few surprises in the race with some teams gambling on tyre choice during qualifying or changes in track temp coming in to play on race day. It would mean that the manufacturers would need to develop tyres that perform well over a wide temp range.

[The Phantom]

Agreed Neninja - how could they police a 'no qualifiers' rule?

I guess the upside of qualifiers is the ongoing intense development of tyre technology in trying to get an edge - even one-lappers give important feedback to the technicians and engineers who design all of the tyres.

[NinjaMaster]

I guess I see pro's and cons to Q tyres. I really find the MotoGP qualifying session exciting as the qualifiers come out and the times start to tumble at the sessions end. Whether or not that would happen without them, I don't know. On the flipside, it can screw up the race for some riders because their race setup doesn't suit the qualifiers so they qualify bad.
Also, I don't think they add to costs because the teams are limited on the quantity of tyres they can use which I believe includes the qualifiers.
I guess, overall, I'm in favour of 'em.

[ArmchairBikeFan]

I think it's fair enough to have qualifiers because there are no points for the grid, all you get is a few metres closer to turn one. If you run the whole thing on race tyres then the guy who's quickest on race tyres will be quickest in every session and the race. Best to have the possibility of shaking stuff up a bit with a balls-out fast lap on stickies.

[leopard]

Provided single tyres manufacturer is not implemented and and they still want to supply qualifying tyres, I think qualifiers still have their place. They may see qualifiers as competition, the weaker tyres at the race can have benefit from being superior during qualification.

I see some riders like RdP have a bit this characteristic, their performance at the race aren't strong as that of during qualification. In the same manners as any other competition, I have a bit extreme opinion on points reward for qualifying. Hence, rider and tyres which are fast particularly in qualifying I think deserve appreciation.