American Talent

[rolinchicane]

If there were more successful American drivers, wouldn't American interest increase within the IRL? Nothing against foreign drivers! I just feel the need for American interest in order for the series to thrive.

1. The league should offer the winning teams $50-$100k bonus for each event their American driver wins.

2. Offer the teams a $1 million bonus if an American wins the series!

3. Offer incentives for teams to develop young drivers in the Mazda and Atlantic series. It wouldn't be out of the question, and probably intellient, for teams to start signing young drivers in the BMW Formula and Skip Barber series and working with them at 14 and 15 years old. There has got to be open-wheel talent that gets lost to fender racing at this stage?

[nigelred5]

Start paying drivers a decent saary in open wheel and maybe they won't all be pining for a ride in nascar from the time they are 10 years old.

[ShiftingGears]

If there were more successful American drivers, wouldn't American interest increase within the IRL? Nothing against foreign drivers! I just feel the need for American interest in order for the series to thrive.

1. The league should offer the winning teams $50-$100k bonus for each event their American driver wins.

No need to get selective.


2. Offer the teams a $1 million bonus if an American wins the series!

See above point.


3. Offer incentives for teams to develop young drivers in the Mazda and Atlantic series. It wouldn't be out of the question, and probably intellient, for teams to start signing young drivers in the BMW Formula and Skip Barber series and working with them at 14 and 15 years old. There has got to be open-wheel talent that gets lost to fender racing at this stage?

Good idea.


Although the main solution is for IndyCar to somehow transform itself into the pinnacle which all the drivers aim for. Or at least try and get close to that. And thats not easy. CART didn't manage to do that, which is why drivers who were out of F1 for 10 years were still winning in IndyCar.

[ykiki]

1. The league should offer the winning teams $50-$100k bonus for each event their American driver wins.

2. Offer the teams a $1 million bonus if an American wins the series!


But what's in it for the driver??? Nice that the team will get a little extra change, but what's the financial incentive for the American driver to pick Indy over NASCAR?

Also, how does this plan help the small teams that really NEED the money a foreign ride-buyer brings just to survive from year to year? It's not like we're going to see Dale Coyne or PCM win a championship any time soon, regardless of the nationality of their drivers.

[speeddurango]

That's not going to happen even if it is logically correct for the series to grow, you would get huge amount of racist complaints alone and really bad publicity I'm afraid, you have to remember the diversity and interest of foreign people in America is possibly higher than anywhere in the world.

[Jag_Warrior]

Although the main solution is for IndyCar to somehow transform itself into the pinnacle which all the drivers aim for. Or at least try and get close to that. And thats not easy. CART didn't manage to do that, which is why drivers who were out of F1 for 10 years were still winning in IndyCar.

CART (and the Indy 500 of that era) managed to attract internationally known, A list drivers... even a current World Driving Champion. In 1993, there were four World Driving Champions in the Indy 500, with 7 WDC titles among them. The final race rating was a 9.3 (barely half that now). IMO, that was pretty badass. If Mika Hakkinen and/or Michael Schumacher ever decide to come to the IRL, I doubt that them winning Indy would be considered a problem by Tony George or any fan of AOWR.

I understand where you're coming from. But I'm not sure it's so much about needing to be perceived as "the pinnacle", as just being a place where racing fans can see world class drivers competing. And right now, that's not the perception. The perception seems to be one of drivers trying to get out, rather than get in.

[Breeze]

Although the main solution is for IndyCar to somehow transform itself into the pinnacle which all the drivers aim for. Or at least try and get close to that. And thats not easy. CART didn't manage to do that, which is why drivers who were out of F1 for 10 years were still winning in IndyCar.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the FACT that the likes of Foyt, Fittipaldi, Andretti, Mansel, etc., were some the of best drivers to EVER get behind the wheel of a race car. :dozey:

[Chris R]

The more I think about it, I am not sure F-1 and AOWR really compare in terms of driving capabilities. Formula 1 is a much more political environment and I think is a much better indicator of a driver's ability to manage his (or her) driving talent in an atmosphere with lots of political pressure....

I think one of the reasons that so many drivers from AOWR fail in F-1 is that they are not used to handling the pressure of the F-1 circus. It is not like daMatta, Zanardi, Bourdais, Michael Andretti, etc. suddenly got slower - they just went from a warm fuzzy environment to a cut-throat one and they were not ready or able to deal with it....

Someone like Schumacher really succeeded not only because of immense driving talent -but also because of a mental toughness than many US based drivers never have to develop because at the end of the day Americans (righty so) see racing as just a sport and not "life" - in F-1 it is "life"....

Anyway, my point is that we do have and have had great drivers - they might not be quite the ultimate drivers that some F-1 guys are - but I suspect they are much better rounded people...

So the key to building driver talent is providing a stable series that gives young drivers a definite goal and a potential life-time home while still allowing some drivers to move"up" to a series that more suits their needs and others to move "down" for the same reason.... People like Montoya and Villeneuve did exactly what they should have in moving to F-1 - but if AOWR had been in better shape they should have felt free to come back once they realized that it better suited them....

We should never have to make apologies for what AOWR is - it is a great sport that offers a unique combination of challenges in an environment of interesting technology with a far more human element than F-1 and a less contrived atmosphere than NASCAR.... You get the balance right (I would argue that CART circa 1992-1994 had the balance right) and who would not want to race there?????

[bones]

I think there is quality talent in the Silver Crown series/sprint cars. But, most of those drivers have visions of NASCAR.

[MDS]

First of all what you're offering is chicken feed compared to Nextell Cup salaries. Second of all where is the money going to come from?

The far bigger problem though is number of seats. Right now there are 25 full time seats of that six drivers brought some or all of their backing. So that's 19 seats that can be had by talent alone? (17 if you discount Marco and Danica). Compare that to NASCAR where there are 40 top seats 40 Nationwide seats and 30 seats in the truck series, so there's 120 drivers potentially all earning at least $50,000 a year and up. This year Jason Leffler will out earn most of the IRL while driving in the Nationwide series with only spot starts in Cup.

In AOWR right now where you have 19 paying seats and at most you can spend two or three years in a feeder series before you're seen as dead weight. If you don't make it to the IRL by say 25 the best you can likely hope for is a Grand Am, ALMS or some low-teir Euro touring series. Not a bad life, one I would be happy with, but if you look at it realistically youc chances are just soo much better of making a living if you go the NASCAR route right now.

[Cart750hp]

Incentive would probably a good idea but still, it's huge market out there. CART tried it, CC tried and IRL been trying to do it. You also have to understand that these drivers are not just in it for the sport. This is their job and they will go where they are getting paid. Unfortunately, IndyCar doesn't have the same pay as NASCAR to keep good drivers so this trend of losing drivers going to NASCAR will continue on until IRL pays better than NASCAR. When and how that would happen? If I know, I would be billing Tony George for it. But sure, I don't know.

[Mad_Hatter]

Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher decide to come to the IRL.


You heard it here first! [/mirage]

:laugh:

[FIAT1]

American talent? Like who? Why not best talent period. Thank you Mario,Emerson, Nigel and Aleks for all great years of real racing.

[bblocker68]

Jonathon Summerton.

[pits4me]

If there were more successful American drivers, wouldn't American interest increase within the IRL? Nothing against foreign drivers! I just feel the need for American interest in order for the series to thrive.

1. The league should offer the winning teams $50-$100k bonus for each event their American driver wins.

2. Offer the teams a $1 million bonus if an American wins the series!

3. Offer incentives for teams to develop young drivers in the Mazda and Atlantic series. It wouldn't be out of the question, and probably intellient, for teams to start signing young drivers in the BMW Formula and Skip Barber series and working with them at 14 and 15 years old. There has got to be open-wheel talent that gets lost to fender racing at this stage?

When Tony George first established the IRL he had the same thinking, American drivers, yah-dah-yah-dah-yah! Sports is very global in fans base and participation, thinking an Amercian driver-themed bonus will be of any benefit to improve things, especially in open wheel, was a very narrow vision. We could use more Americans but how we get them is another story. Too bad TG didn't find a way to get Travis Pastrana in an Indy 500 race after his 2006 Race of Champions performance in Paris.

If you are looking for a proven development model, take a look at what Gerald Forsythe did for Canadian drivers with support from Player's. Drivers sponsored from Canadian FF1600, Atlantic's, Indy Lights to CART.

Just before the tobacco pullout, the KOOL driver development program via subsidiary Brown & Williamson got started for Amercians. Alex Gurney was one of the first generation drivers but the system got too political when it came to driver selection and support. It lost credibility and eventually was replaced by the Red Bull program.

A few large team sponsors jumped on the bandwagon in 97-99, (Derek Hill via PacWest and Motorola) but not much meat on the bone. There were a few philanthropists who funded American drivers in Atlantic teams like Lynx, DSTP, RuSport for Barron, Gidley, Rice, Allmendinger, etc., but the split made it hard to get outside corporate support and a defined career path.

Several Atlantic stars and champions had no place to go (Jon Fogarty, Michael Valiente, Joey Hand, Hoover Orsi, Jonothan Macri, Aaron Justus, et al).

Forsythe and Pettit are working on expanding the Red Bull Development program in 2009. I just don't see teams like TCGR taking 10% of their annual racing budget and fostering development programs on behalf of sponsors like Target, Energizer, Hanes, etc. Prime sponsorship on a development series car and associate on an IRL car isn't much different to what NASCAR sponsors and teams are doing with ARCA, NCTS, Nationwide, and Sprint Cup.

Like they say, if you don't take care of the seeds, there'll be no fruit to harvest.

[Rex Monaco]

Myopia is what lead to the downward spiral of AOWR. Myopia is not what it needs right now.

[MAX_THRUST]

The series just needs good talented entertaining drivers with personallity.

Sadly not all are American. There is a world out there. This is almost rascist.

I think this is why CCWS were looking more at Europe the past few years and why CART looked at Europe. I know Mr Penske wasn't too keen on going to Europe though.

[MAX_THRUST]

The problem with driver development you are still getting non US drivers in it. At the end of the day you want your team to win, and if Billy Bob aint as quick as Tim Nice but Dim, then you are gonna have Tim. However if you have a girl racer then she might bring more sponsor dollars, although the novelty is starting to wear off there now I think.

[Osiris333]

One thing TG should do is buy out the contracts of Scott Speed and AJ Almendinger. Both are languishing with backmarker NASCAR teams and both would add a lot of interest to the Indycar series. Almendinger is really fast, and Speed helps create international interest with his F-1 experience. How about putting them in at Vision with Paul Tracy (now an American citizen) running out of the Walker stable.

An Indycar series with Speed, Almendinger, Hunter-Reay, Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti could stir my interest, especially once they get the cars fixed. Sadly, I don't really see any other American drivers out there that deserve a shot right now (this means you Danica), but these guys are all good enough to make for an interesting grid.

[weeflyonthewall]

Speed languishing? http://www.arcaracing.com/points.cfm
He's leading the points. 3 wins, 8 top 5's and 11 top 10's.
TG couldn't afford him except for the Indy 500

[ykiki]

Speed languishing? http://www.arcaracing.com/points.cfm
He's leading the points. 3 wins, 8 top 5's and 11 top 10's.
TG couldn't afford him except for the Indy 500

Yes he's winning in ARCA, but I suppose some would consider it languishing since he isn't competing every week in the Nextel Cup Series, the Nationwide Series, or even the Craftsmen Truck Series. He's a former Formula 1 driver in...well... ARCA!!!

[Osiris333]

Yeah, ARCA is such a top end series...

[rolinchicane]

If you were looking to put a list together of the top 2 American prospects for a developmental program, which series' would you look at on the ladder?

example:
2 drivers from each of the following series:
Star Mazda
Atlantics
Barber
Pacific F2000
Formula BMW
Formula TR is done
any others?

[Placid]

Well the aspirations for American talent are on the shoulders of Eddie Cheever's nephew Richard Antinucci who has a 1 point advantage over
Raphael Matos with Kentucky up ahead. I might expect Richard to race
at Surfer's if he wins the title. Or maybe at least have a team to place
an entry at Belle Isle. By 2009, young guns like Bobby Wilson and JR Hildebrand will move up.

In the Formula BMW America series, Alexander Rossi (No relation to Valentino)of Nevada City, California has a comfortable 19 point lead. He is the only US driver in the series. Will be 18 in September. He is looking for F1 as is
the other Formula BMW driver and fellow countryman Sean McDonagh of the
Seattle, Washington area currently in 2nd in the Formula BMW Pacific Series
as they head to Singapore this September.

Their websites:
http://www.alexanderrossi.com

http://www.seanmcdonaghracing.com

In the Atlantics - another promising driver is Jonathan Bomarito. I believe that despite being 4th in the standings, his experience may ensure him
a ride.

[ykiki]

Speaking of Alantics, I wouldn't mind seeing Carl "King Taco" Skerlong, who is also from the Seattle area (Mukilteo, WA).

[ShiftingGears]

Yeah, ARCA is such a top end series...

Gotta start oval racing somewhere.

[FORMULA-A]

The more I think about it, I am not sure F-1 and AOWR really compare in terms of driving capabilities. Formula 1 is a much more political environment and I think is a much better indicator of a driver's ability to manage his (or her) driving talent in an atmosphere with lots of political pressure....

I think one of the reasons that so many drivers from AOWR fail in F-1 is that they are not used to handling the pressure of the F-1 circus. It is not like daMatta, Zanardi, Bourdais, Michael Andretti, etc. suddenly got slower - they just went from a warm fuzzy environment to a cut-throat one and they were not ready or able to deal with it....

Someone like Schumacher really succeeded not only because of immense driving talent -but also because of a mental toughness than many US based drivers never have to develop because at the end of the day Americans (righty so) see racing as just a sport and not "life" - in F-1 it is "life"....

Anyway, my point is that we do have and have had great drivers - they might not be quite the ultimate drivers that some F-1 guys are - but I suspect they are much better rounded people...

So the key to building driver talent is providing a stable series that gives young drivers a definite goal and a potential life-time home while still allowing some drivers to move"up" to a series that more suits their needs and others to move "down" for the same reason.... People like Montoya and Villeneuve did exactly what they should have in moving to F-1 - but if AOWR had been in better shape they should have felt free to come back once they realized that it better suited them....

We should never have to make apologies for what AOWR is - it is a great sport that offers a unique combination of challenges in an environment of interesting technology with a far more human element than F-1 and a less contrived atmosphere than NASCAR.... You get the balance right (I would argue that CART circa 1992-1994 had the balance right) and who would not want to race there?????

A very wise and good post. The F-1 thing has been driven home with particular clarity with the whole BOURDAIS non-performance thing. Granted the car ain't great but he is getting tanned on a regular basis by Vettel. That being said I completely agree with being non apologetic about AOWR. I sure do miss ZANARDI, MOORE and even MIKEY Andretti. A whiney, taciturn driver in the best of times but FAST FAST FAST.

I tell you though I am shocked at how excited I feel about the current series. It feels interesting again. The cars are horrible looking ANteaters but I feel a tingle when (especially road course and street) races are happening and ICS will need to build on that "tingle" with BETTER cars and drivers. and OF COURSE MORE TV. Even if it is on VERSUS.

[Chris R]

Gotta start oval racing somewhere.

I would argue that Scott Speed is better off than Dario, Patrick, Jacques, AJ and not much worse off than Sam or Juan - because he is learning his craft out of the limelight and he is WINNING.....

That being said - I am not an ARCA fan - but you can argue he is making the transition to tin tops the right way.....

[ZzZzZz]

I would argue that Scott Speed is better off than Dario, Patrick, Jacques, AJ and not much worse off than Sam or Juan - because he is learning his craft out of the limelight and he is WINNING.....

That being said - I am not an ARCA fan - but you can argue he is making the transition to tin tops the right way.....

I agree. He's positioning himself to be successful.

Anyway, people have complained with selective memory that there weren't enough American drivers in CART. That's more proof that mediocre American drivers (or at least with mediocre results) don't get noticed and don't count for much.

Talent is developed by competing against the best, so we need some of the best from around the world in our ladder series.

From a marketing standpoint, the ideal is a balance of nationalities. Great drivers from the U.S., Mexico and Canada for sure, but the more great drivers the better.

Many of American fans' favorite Indy Car drivers have been foreigners. They prove themselves on the track and with their personalities. Many of these drivers fall in love with the U.S., too.

I really don't think there's a shortage of American talent, either. We may have lost some, having a weakened competitive stance re other series, as well as some brain dead decisions. But there are proven young Americans who could switch over, and promising up-and-comers.

Anyway, I don't see a problem. As the series grows, it will be a more attractive option for these drivers, and there will be more more help from sponsors. They'll still have to fight for the seats. Ultimately, there will be a few more Americans in the series, and that will be fine.

[CARTDM15]

America is to blame for the lack of American talent in open wheel racing.When you have an average driver like Danica being the highest paid driver in the series because of her good looks.While the talent drivers go to NASCAR, AJ,Hornish, Speed.

[rolinchicane]

I find it hard to understand why Panther couldn't find an American driver to compete in the National Guard car? Could you imagine a foreign government subsidizing an American driver in a car?

On the topics of American drivers, I think Marco did a great job in Kentucky last night. His team did an excellent job setting up the car and he didn't put a wheel wrong all night. Maybe just a click too long on the re-fuel cost AGR a win. But, other than, great job!

[nigelred5]

Speed languishing? http://www.arcaracing.com/points.cfm
He's leading the points. 3 wins, 8 top 5's and 11 top 10's.
TG couldn't afford him except for the Indy 500

Beat me to that one. Granted he's in ARCA and Trucks, but he really sounds like he's learning stock cars and enjoying racing. Dinger would have been better served to have been given the same learning curve by Red Bull. Dinger has been doing much better in the trucks and Nationwide rides. I would like to see them both in Indycars, but as teammates, I think that's an oil and water mix. Maybe both have matured, but I know they do not like each other at all. I seem to recall that they genuinely disliked each other in their karting days. Teammates really need to get along in Indycars and in NASCAR

[nigelred5]

Ther have been plenty of talented American drivers coming up through The open wheel ranks, only to be cut off at the top levels in Champcar and the IRL by money toting overseas trained drivers. The proverbial ride buyers. Sure, some have gotten there on talent. I think Ganassi's drivers have always landed their rides on talent, not wallet. Sadly, not the case for most. Sure they end up being decent drivers, however any of the Americans could have been just as good if they could even get their butt in a seat. Sadly, no one has the budgets to make that driver decision.
Sure, people love Helio. He's been here driving in the US for a decade with little overture of pining for an F1 ride, he lives in Florida and is well known in racing, but it still took putting him on a dancing show to make him an accepted household name.
If someone like Montoya was in Kyle Bush's Toyota powered seat, winning as often as he is in NASCAR, Ol Juan would have Nascar fans on fire. I like Juan a lot actually, but I know quite a few taht are glad to see him languishing in NASCAR.

Mainstream Americans want to see Americans beating non-American drivers, especially on American soil. Call it zenophobic if you will, but that's America, and if that doesn't happen often enough, they won't watch. See what happens to the Olympic TV ratings if the gymnasts keep faltering, Teh Basket ball team looses a game or two or Michael Phelps misses a gold or two.

[harvick#1]

wow, not too many people giving RHR much love

[nigelred5]

Well, he's one of the few that actually IS racing in Indycars. He's doing about as well, maybe a touch better than expected in a RLR ride. Rahal is just off the mark against the big guns. He's always ended up getting the shaft, which is a shame cause the kid can drive and he should be exactly whay american companies want in a marketable driver. Again, he would have likely landed good rodes in the past had it been strictly about talent and marketability, not about the size of the wallet he brings. HE should however be able to pull sponsorship on his own to compete with the ride buyers, which is the single biggest factor I have always seen. American drivers just aren't trained or accustomed to bringing the sponsorship on their own, that's the teams job. Unfortunately, the teams seem to have grown accustomed to someone else shopping for the sponsorship for them as well, so I'm not sure who exactly IS looking for the $$. The series can't do it all, however the IRL does seem better at that than CC or CART ever was. They had certainly adopted that aspect of European racing as well.

[ZzZzZz]

Anyway, I don't think people would be complaining right now if Marco and Graham were winning more. AGR hasn't been performing to par, and that seems to be changing. NHL is having problems both coming up to speed, and with reliability. They'll figure it out at some point.