Are we expecting too much from Olympians?

[Hazell B]

The International Olympic Committee has said that all people entered in the next Games must qualify in their sport to represent their country.

Now, for some sports that is fine - you can compete often and stay fully fit for years on end at, for example, shooting and things like that. However, when it comes to the serious, physical sports there's only so many times a competitor can do his or her best. I'm thinking of marathon runners and the like.

Zara Phillips, World and European Eventing Champion, is having to qualify along with all the rest to get to the next Olympics for the Individual event. Problem is, she only has one horse and they can't stay fit long enough or run in many Events before dropping dead. She'll have to decide if she wants to be at the Olympics or enter Events that offer prize money and other Championships. That's not fair on her, and certainly not fair on the rest of the UK! We need that medal chance :mark:

Don't know how many other sports will be affected by this, but I guess anything that has both financially rewarding and Olympic qualifiers as separate competitions will pose a problem if it's physically demanding. Distance running? Swimming? Sailing?

I think we're expecting a bit too much of our Olympians if we make them choose between prize competitions and qualifiers.

[walrus81]

I'm not 100% sure at what you're getting at? Do you mean that athletes can only qualify for the Olmypics by way of a single qualifying event?

Matthew Ryan missed the 3 day event at the Atlanta Olympics because he wasn't qualified on his second horse (his first was injured).

[Rollo]

What happens in an event like the marathon when people at best only have about 3 or 4 top performances in their entire life? If someone has been nominated by their country as being good enough then why not?

Also, what happens about those people like Eddie the Eagle or the Jamaican bobsled who had no hope of ever doing any good at all? Where's the Olympic ideals of fair play fall in with them?

[Eki]

Also, what happens about those people like Eddie the Eagle or the Jamaican bobsled who had no hope of ever doing any good at all?
They could still compete if there wasn't a better ski-jumper from the UK and a better bobsled team from Jamaica. The idea is that every nation sends the best athletes they have. If someone doesn't do well in national qualifyings, he/she won't compete in the Olympics.

[walrus81]

They could still compete if there wasn't a better ski-jumper from the UK and a better bobsled team from Jamaica. The idea is that every nation sends the best athletes they have. If someone doesn't do well in national qualifyings, he/she won't compete in the Olympics.
Has the UK had any ski jumpers apart from Michael Edwards?

[Ian McC]

I thought there was some sort of process already to get into the English or British teams.

[Hazell B]

What happens in an event like the marathon when people at best only have about 3 or 4 top performances in their entire life? If someone has been nominated by their country as being good enough then why not?



That's the point, the International Olympic Committee is now saying (for example) that Zara Phillips must qualify against her country mates for the Individual Event, even though she cannot be expected to keep a horse fit for both the qualification and actual Olympics. All countries are the same, of course. It means the Olympics will no longer be seen as the very best of each sport, it'll be the best from whenever somebody qualified. A fluke could see the best competitors watching from the sidelines while an utter no hoper represents us :(

Team events are remaining the same - a team is allowed from each nation like it has always been.

I think it's because there's too many competitors and they simply need to cut down numbers.

[janneppi]

I'm having trouble believing that a horse is in it's peak for a week every four years How did she get into olympics before? because her name has the letter z?
Team members qualify to the olympics every time they play with their teams.
You're right about too many competitors wanting to participate, but it would be absolute shambles if there were 4500 horses competing in a single event.

[EuroTroll]

If Zara is so important for the Brits, maybe they should have a national fund raiser to get her another horse! :erm: :p :

[Hazell B]

I'm having trouble believing that a horse is in it's peak for a week every four years

Where did I say it was? :p :

The point is that (and again, Phillips is just an example) competitors are now faced with choosing between a qualification competition and a competition that offers better prize money. It's as if we're expecting them to give up the real world of paying bills and just get out there to represent us. That's not fair on them.

In the case of Eventing, a horse can easily spend a full season fit, even two if you're lucky, but in that season there's only a few top competitions. Imagine a marathon runner having to run four times in a month and you'll see what I mean. But at some point there are just too many miles on the clock or the animal gets bored with the job - then it won't offer a good show at all.

By the way, simply buying another horse is a) not as easy as it sounds b) hard to get a partnership with quickly and c) about a half million quid! Much like f!, you can't just go out and buy a new car in a showroom :p :
She may end up on a borrowed horse, but we're very short of three star eventers in the UK. A few weeks of no rain and they all go lame like cars on a track covered in glass.

[janneppi]

Then how does this Zara get into olympics with the old system?
Just as an example. :)

[EuroTroll]

The point is that (and again, Phillips is just an example) competitors are now faced with choosing between a qualification competition and a competition that offers better prize money. It's as if we're expecting them to give up the real world of paying bills and just get out there to represent us. That's not fair on them.

To some degree, I think that's been the case always. You're saying that athletes now have to make choices? Oh dear, what a tremendous tragedy. :rolleyes:

:arrow: "Now then, Zara. Do you want Olympic glory or a little more money than you'd otherwise have?"
:arrow: "Waaaaa! :bigcry: I want both!" :bigcry:

[jso1985]

I thought every athlete had to qualify for the olympics :s
otherwise all the competitors would be the guys who their national comitee think they're nice

[Hondo]

I had to look at what Eventing was on Wiki to find out what it was. A lot of you know what a complete wuss I am when it comes to the treatment of my dog and I couldn't put Sweetie through something that strenuous. Animals will give their all at the urgings of human beings until they fall over dead. They don't just say "piss on it, I'm taking a break.". There's something wrong about that.

I would think that owning horses and engaging in horse related sports is fairly expensive over there, in other words most who engage in it probably have some extra money at the end of the month. Couldn't the "horse people" put together a private fund to see her through to the Olympics, thereby leaving her free for training and conditioning?

[Knock-on]

I must say, this does sound ludicrous.

My friend competes at a very high standard in Eventing but her horse is no way competent enough to compete at the highest level.

At the end of the season, when the big events come up, she is paid to take other horses out to compete.

Does this mean that to qualify for the Olympics, she would have to use her own horse and thus rule herself out of the running whereas a less able rider with a championship horse will probably get through but not be able to compete as well as my friend?

Will this sham qualification even draw the best horses and riders or will they say:

"Why risk everything on next years Olympics when Badminton is just round the corner?"

[Hondo]

I'd go for the cash. A year after the close of the games, nobody will remember or care who won what.

[Knock-on]

I'd go for the cash. A year after the close of the games, nobody will remember or care who won what.

I don't know.

We all know that Sir Steve Redgrave won numerous Olympic Golds but how many World Championships or other championships did he win?

Jessie Owen, Mark Spitz, Carl Lewis and the British Curling team are all synonymous with Olympic success more than anything else IMHO.

[Hondo]

I understand your point, but your list comes no where near the amount of athletes that have won gold medals since, say, Jessie Owen.

I'd rather have the income. Now perhaps winning the gold would open the door to even more lucrative offers from people in the horse business, but I don't know. I can't remember seeing a horse on the a Wheaties box.

[Knock-on]

I understand your point, but your list comes no where near the amount of athletes that have won gold medals since, say, Jessie Owen.

I'd rather have the income. Now perhaps winning the gold would open the door to even more lucrative offers from people in the horse business, but I don't know. I can't remember seeing a horse on the a Wheaties box.

Fair enough. :up:

[CarlMetro]

We all know that Sir Steve Redgrave won numerous Olympic Golds but how many World Championships or other championships did he win?

His record for World Championships includes 9 golds, 3 silver and 1 bronze. Add to that 3 World Cup golds, numerous medals in Commonwealth and European championships and the World Indoor rowing championship in 1990.

I'll take my anorak off now..........

One thing to remember is that, to use Knockies example of Sir Steve Redgrave, it should not matter how good a sportsman is nor what titles they currently hold, if they want to represent their country then they should have to follow the same qualification rules as everyone else with the same desire.

Sir Steve was at the peak of his sport from 1983 until he retired in 2000 and won 6 Olympic medals, yet he and whoever else he was rowing with at the time still had to go through the qualification procedure as every other rower wanting to represent Team GB.

Whilst I understand the sentiments about Zara Philips having to choose between earning a few quid at the weekend and representing her Grandma's country, I sincerely doubt that a) she can only afford one bloody horse, b) she really has to make that choice for financial reasons & c) the small fact that commercial sponsorship of horses and riders, especially one who is World & European champion, doesn't exist in Eventing as it certainly does in show jumping.

[LotusElise]

In other sports such as snooker, golf and tennis, the winners of the biggest tournaments get exemptions from qualifying for blue riband events. In a way it's the same with football in the FA Cup as well - the Premiership and Championship teams enter much later than the qualifiers.
I don't understand why the Olympics are different. If someone is a world champion, surely that's enough qualification?
The biggest names in a sporting discipline are the ones that the spectators want to watch, and also the ones that the other competitors want to prove themselves against. Everyone wants them there. Love her or loathe her, it would be a lacklustre Olympic Eventing competition without the reigning world champion.

[Hazell B]

Whilst I understand the sentiments about Zara Philips having to choose between earning a few quid at the weekend and representing her Grandma's country, I sincerely doubt that a) she can only afford one bloody horse, b) she really has to make that choice for financial reasons & c) the small fact that commercial sponsorship of horses and riders, especially one who is World & European champion, doesn't exist in Eventing as it certainly does in show jumping.

She was just an example (Redgrave's a better one, wish I'd thought of him!) but I'll answer anyhow. Zara Phillips isn't short of cash, but she isn't loaded either. Her living is the sport, there's no other real income. Sponsorship is handy, yes. However, let's use Show Jumping as an example and see how handy. Horse, at least £80k, but more into the £150k+ for decent Grade A with internationsl prospects (not even credentials, just prospects ;) ). Insurance, day to day keep, blah blah, about £200 a week, even if it's not working. Staff to care for it, buildings to house it, a ruddy great big horsebox, overseas travel (do you know what a horse costs to send to France or the US?) and then you've got to pay the show's entry fees (say £50 minimum per class entered) and stable fees (£50 a day at least) and you're still not in the ring and over a single jump! If you do win, the prize money will be an average of £1000 per class, but it's cost you that much to get there - you'd better enter another class quick then! Your sponsors have given you less than £10k for the year, average, and they need you back at their office for a hand shaking session and publicity photos by nine.

Zara Phillips would earn ten times more being that Danielle from Big Brother and just holding up signs saying "buy this ...." - trust me :p :

About previous year's team member picks - in the past Derek Rickets (he's the show jumping Olympic team captain) simply said to his shortlist of a dozen or so riders that he would choose the individual competitors for the Games at a specific show, and that's what he did. If he wanted Robert Smith, he chose Robert Smith so long as he was on form. Now he'll have to pick whoever wins at the IOC's chosen competition - not the best rider! He basically can't pick Individual Olympic competitors as he would like. The possibles all have to be there when the IOC says, or they're out. It'll be the same for other sports.

What if our best tea tray downhill madman/woman has a cold or twisted ankle come qualifyer day? They might be perfectly able to win gold the following week or month, but they can't go ..... it's unfair!

[Hazell B]

To the person who repped me saying I'd made no refs to articles in my posts - I can't! I know about this from a journalist friend who happened to ring me from an international event and only had a few minutes to moan. I won't name him as I have no idea if there's an embargo and no exact details of who's involved or which sports (I was told all of them, but can't prove it)

Why didn't you just post asking me? Thanks anyway :)

[janneppi]

About previous year's team member picks - in the past Derek Rickets (he's the show jumping Olympic team captain) simply said to his shortlist of a dozen or so riders that he would choose the individual competitors for the Games at a specific show, and that's what he did.
To be honest, that's a bad way to choose a participant to represent a country, what if some one good enough has a falling out with the team captain over a bag of steroids the day before he makes the choice, and that affects the decision? There should be a transparency in the process, that's what qualifications are for. Furthermore, if an athelete can't be prepared for a qualification round, how can he/she/it be trusted to perform when it really counts?


What if our best tea tray downhill madman/woman has a cold or twisted ankle come qualifyer day? They might be perfectly able to win gold the following week or month, but they can't go ..... it's unfair!
Tough luck, be better prepared in 2011. :)

[janneppi]

To the person who repped me saying I'd made no refs to articles in my posts - I can't! I know about this from a journalist friend who happened to ring me from an international event and only had a few minutes to moan. I won't name him as I have no idea if there's an embargo and no exact details of who's involved or which sports (I was told all of them, but can't prove it)

You'll propably find information from web at British olympic commitee
or the internation olympic commitee.

I found the basic qualification system explained from Finnish olympic commitee web page.