Why So Serious? (Dark Knight)

[Hazell B]

The Dark Knight.
Who's seen it?

[Dave B]

Not me, I'll wait until the DVD is out. I've gone right off the cinema recently. Unless I venture into the West End (and shell out silly money) I can get better picture and sound quality at home; plus I don't have to put up with idiots eating sweets or chattering, don't have to pay a fiver for a drink, and can pause the film anytime for a cheeky wee.

I've a feeling that the new Batman may be somewhat over-hyped due to the Heath Ledger factor. I take it you've seen it - what's your verdict?

[Eki]

I can't take Batman seriously. I always remember the episode of Friends where Chandler and Ross rented tuxedos worn by actors of Bond and Batman. Ross said, "James Bond gets all the women" and Chandler said, "Batman lives in a cave with a young boy, oh...".

[Hazell B]

Hey Dave, I'm with you on the whole cinema going thing these days, but I would strongly recommend shelling out for the ticket and taking a drink with you for this one :up:

It needs to be seen BIG.

Put it this way, I've had the week from hell, (my vehicle died expensively, the horses were semi nicked, the trailer and half my stock taken, etc.) then to cap it all a film I've waited a year or more for happened to star a man who may be a woman beater - and you know my dislike of men who belt women after assorted words about a certain ex-forum member ;)

Anyway, with Heath Ledger gone, I wasn't ready to sit through seeing him on screen just yet. He was a favourite of mine.

But I was dragged along this morning. I have to say it's just about as good as cinema can be. The talk of Ledger gaining an Oscar nomination isn't wrong, and I'd be praying for it if he was still alive and acting in Shakespeare.

Two mild niggles are - that Bale's accents being altered for every role/series of interviews is wearing on me. He refuses to use his real voice for anything other than homelife and that's just pretentious. Also, I just didn't care either way for the last two minutes. I know I will once I see it again on DVD, but just didn't first time around.

Besides that, it's a full 2 1/2 hours of damned good film, with not a single minute wasted. Ledger's best work, too.

[Daniel]

can pause the film anytime for a cheeky wee.

You don't just piss on the floor over here? Weird :p

[RaceFanStan]

The Dark Knight.
Who's seen it?
I will also wait for the DVD to watch it ...
(I liked Val Kilmer as Batman, he was the best Bruce Wayne/Batman so far IMO..)

Batman has always been somewhat "dark", Bruce Wayne is a millionaire that is screwed-up mentally ...
a young boy witnessing his parents being murdered almost has to make him a bit deranged ...
it makes for some wild story lines when they add in foes also with mental disorders. :D

[Storm]

Not me, I'll wait until the DVD is out. I've gone right off the cinema recently...plus I don't have to put up with idiots eating sweets or chattering, don't have to pay a fiver for a drink, and can pause the film anytime for a cheeky wee.



Same here really...so it's all the same whatever country you are in.
There just aren't enough good movies to enjoy at a cinema thesedays (last movie I watched was American Gangster at the hall)

As for Batman, I never liked him also the fact that I don't like any of the actors playing him either...Actually come to think of it I can only bear to watch Spiderman and dislike all other superhero or animated stuff.

[gloomyDAY]

Watched it when it first came out in California.

Midnight showing, packed crowd, and don't regret a thing.

Amazing movie! I hope you guys like pencil tricks....

[ShiftingGears]

Phenomenal movie. I thought it was utterly fantastic.

[jim mcglinchey]

[quote="Dave Brockman"]
I've a feeling that the new Batman may be somewhat over-hyped due to the Heath Ledger factorQUOTE]

Hype!? I havent noticed any hype, and what about the Black Knight slapping his mum and sis about, is that part of the hype, I wonder.

You know what they say, theres no such thing as bad publicity!

[jim mcglinchey]

Ahem , that should of course be The Dark Knight.

[Hazell B]

... and what about the Black Knight slapping his mum and sis about, is that part of the hype, I wonder.

You know what they say, theres no such thing as bad publicity!

No way is that part of the planned hype - hitting women is NOT in any way good publicity! Ask Max Mosley :p : Anyway, it seems a shove is all it boils down to, over a long running family problem, and nobody directly involved called the police - an 'outsider' in the media's employ blew it all up.

Daniel, you can't just do anything on the floor in cinemas here. Somebody always bottles it and sells it on ebay ..... or is that just me? :p :

[Simmi]

The whole Bale family thing does seem massively overblown and he seems to have a family of pikeys or something who he didnt even grow up around. As far as I know theres no evidence to even suggest he raised a hand to either of them, and I think it speaks volumes about them that they go to the police to report their own flesh and blood for something that would appear to be a private family issue.

As for the more important issue of the film itself. I cant wait I've been excited all year for it and look forward to going to see it at the IMAX (the only good thing about living around the Bradford area) next week.

[Hazell B]

... he seems to have a family of pikeys .... it speaks volumes about them that they go to the police to report their own flesh and blood .....

They didn't - that's the point :mark:

The press said that the mother and sister had reported it, but it was actually a person outside the family and the mother and sister was forced under UK law to report to a police station as in all domestic disputes. They issued a statement saying they had not wanted the police involved and had not been hit, but the UK media didn't report that bit. They wouldn't, would they? :rolleyes:

These days it's the police who take out cases in domestic disputes, not the person being hit, most of the time. It was brought in to protect wives who are beaten from having to bring their own charges to the police.

Sadly the media take advantage of it at times :mark:

[Simmi]

Thanks for explaining that Hazell. In the end its just a shame it had to overshadow the release of the film. Cant imagine it will put anyone off seeing it which is good.

[Sleeper]

I've been getting disillusioned with US films of late, but The Dark Knight shows that there are still a few people over there that know how to produce an absolute corker.

Bloody amazing film.

[F1boat]

I've been getting disillusioned with US films of late, but The Dark Knight shows that there are still a few people over there that know how to produce an absolute corker.

Bloody amazing film.
I second that. The movie was amazing and not like a superhero movie at all. Very moving and sometimes terrifying picture.

[CaptainRaiden]

People who haven't seen it in a theater, need to get off their high horses and GO see it! And please don't categorize it with other campy and stupid superhero flicks. I have seen it twice already, and quite possibly this is the best adult superhero movie made EVER, period. Maybe even one of the best movies ever made.

Although a warning, this movie is NOT for kids, seriously. I have been a Batman fan all my life, and people who think he lives in a "cave with boys" clearly have read all the wrong comic books and all the wrong movies. Please stay off the rubbish Adam West 70's TV show and the two horrible movies made by Joel Schumacher starring Val Kilmer in Batman Forever and George Clooney in Batman and Robin. Two extremely rubbish movies.

The Dark Knight explains the dark and troubled personality of Bruce Wayne/Batman perfectly. Nothing is over the top, it's all very serious. Heath Ledger is the best Joker ever. He has delivered truly a masterclass. I don't say that because he is dead or something, I can even kiss his hand for that performance and I'm not gay. I can never run out of praises for this movie.

Storytelling cannot get better than this. The movie was two and a half hours long, and at the end the people got up and gave it a standing applause. Even I didn't want the movie to end. I have NO idea how the **** are they gonna top this perfection in the third movie.

[Sleeper]

Who says theres going to be a third movie? Heck, Chris Nolan didnt even want to make a second film at first.

[Simmi]

Who says theres going to be a third movie? Heck, Chris Nolan didnt even want to make a second film at first.

There will be a third whether Nolan is on board or not. Box office figures dictate and this has gone beyond all possible expectations for what was, until recently, a laughing stock franchise. I dont think there should be another Batman without Nolan/Bale but this is not always the way.

Christopher Nolan is by far my favourite director and it would be a shame to see him turn his back on smaller films to just concentrate on a franchise. But tellingly he has no other projects in production after Dark Knight, so nothing that will immediately stand in his way. It shouldn't be overlooked he hasn't just directed the last two Batmans but has written them too.

[Sleeper]

What other films has Nolan done?

If they make a third Batman without Nolan and Bale, it'll go the same way as the last franchise did after Tim Burton and Michael Keaton stoped, not good.

[BTCC Fan#1]

As a Batman fan I guess I was always going to be biased, but I thoroughly enjoyed TDK. Taking out the fact it was Batman, it was the only lengthy mainstream movie i've been able to sit through without being bored in a few years. :up:

I hope they make a 3rd one, but i'm praying theres no change of direction.. The Joel Schumacher Batman films from the 90's are just awful, Batman and Robin is without doubt the WORST film i've ever seen. It totally destroys the characters, is terribly directed, and has a diabolical script. Case in point:

"Vot killed ze dinosaurs? .....ZE ICE AGE!" *Cringe* Makes me feel ill just remembering it.

[F1boat]

Third movie will be a huge mistake. In the TDK \SPOILER ALERT)....



the Joker told Batman that they are destined to meet again and again. So only possible and logical sequel will be with the Joker, but Heath is no longer among us and there is no actor who can replace him.

[Garry Walker]

I can`t take batman seriously after that tv-series where when Batman hit someone there were things like powww etc shown. It was so hilarious it still makes me laugh.

[Hazell B]

the Joker told Batman that they are destined to meet again and again.

To be fair, and without spoiling the film for anyone, I think we all know bad guys in films tend to say something and then do something else ;)
I mean, did any movie bad guys ever come back and take over the world like they said they would? The Joker's the same.

Nolan directed Momento, among other things, Sleeper. He also made the last Batman, of course, and is nailed on to be offered the next if he and his team can come up with another story. If he can't (though he clearly can) Paul Greengrass is another favourite to get offered Batman. Another Brit who's action films are superb :)

[Tshbez]

Put it this way, I've had the week from hell, (my vehicle died expensively, the horses were semi nicked, the trailer and half my stock taken, etc.)

Probably someone from this forum did that who was sick of you constantly droning on about your farmyard lifestyle.

[A.F.F.]

I haven't seen it yet but I'm waiting for it.

Those who relate Batman to merry chap with young boy in a cave are stuck to the 60's. DC comics was this close ( nah, you can't see my fingers ) to sink back in 80's until almost all the heavy players from Marvel comics jumped in and saved the firm. Alan Moore, Frank Miller and John Byrne all helped to rescue the company with renewing the DC world. Especially Frank Miller and his ORIGINAL Dark Knight turned Batman into a dark, cruel and almost twisted character. That Batman was the role model to Tim Burton's fairly good Batman. Then joel Schumacher came aboard and the rest is history. I completely agree with BTCC FAN#1. Schumacher killed the franchise and Batman an Robin is one of the worst movies in whole movie history. Heck, even George Clooney hates that movie.

The only way to return was to make Batman what it suppose to be. Serious and dark and god for bid Nolan made that. Batman Returns was good. Not five star material but good. I'm waiting for Dark Knight to at least par that movie. There will be third movie like some have mentioned but it's not sure if Nolan is at helm. The cast has signed for three movies.

But, if you liked The Dark Knight, just wait a little bit more. Watchmen is just around the corner and it looks frigging GOOD :bounce:

[lilmelvschilton]

i have seen it and thought it was amazing film, i loved the lorry fall bit, was ace

[Dave B]

Hey Dave, I'm with you on the whole cinema going thing these days, but I would strongly recommend shelling out for the ticket and taking a drink with you for this one :up:

It needs to be seen BIG.

Okey dokey, we're going to see it at the o2 on Saturday as it's arguably the best quality AV in London. We've booked the latest possible showing so hopefully there won't be many kids, and gold seats to be as far as possible from the chavs!

After all that, the film had better be bloodygood otherwise you know who I'm going to blame! :p

[GridGirl]

As for the more important issue of the film itself. I cant wait I've been excited all year for it and look forward to going to see it at the IMAX (the only good thing about living around the Bradford area) next week.

Was any of the film shown in 3D? I was working at an Imax a few months ago and they were really hoping The Dark Knight and the new Harry Potter film were going to do well for them this year. Well reduce loses anyway.

[Hazell B]

Probably someone from this forum did that who was sick of you constantly droning on about your farmyard lifestyle.


I hope you get things valuable to you stolen.
Now stop replying to ANY of my posts, please.

[veeten]

The 3rd movie of the present Batman Saga is looking as a go. Casting is still open, but the hot word is that Angelina Jolie may be cast as Catwoman and...

(steady, Hazell B... ;) )

Johnny Depp as the Riddler.

[harsha]

it's Nolan's brother who's written them

[Hazell B]

... Angelina Jolie may be cast as Catwoman and...

Johnny Depp as the Riddler.


Um, just loose talk at the moment - a wish list for buffs more than anything, I fear. It was the original Catwoman who (rightly) said Jolie would be perfect, while a journalist with no new news put forward Depp and Philip Seymore Hoffman (Penguin) as suitable.

I'd rather see Toby Jones as Penguin and some new bad guys myself :)

[Sleeper]

it's Nolan's brother who's written them They're both credited with writting them I believe.

[F1boat]

The 3rd movie of the present Batman Saga is looking as a go. Casting is still open, but the hot word is that Angelina Jolie may be cast as Catwoman and...

(steady, Hazell B... ;) )

Johnny Depp as the Riddler.

Hell, no, Riddler and Catwoman are veryu cheesy and stupid characters IMO. I don't want a third one, but if there is such, the Joker + the Scarecrow would be the best option.

[Dave B]

Hazell: I was impressed. Very impressed. :)

[Bezza]

I enjoyed the film - 7.5/10. Sadly it was spoilt by Christian Bale, who is really poor Batman.

[Hazell B]

Hazell: I was impressed. Very impressed. :)

Clearly you don't mean by me :p :
Glad you liked it - and it does need that big screen first time, doesn't it?

Bezza's right. Bale's part in the film was made smaller to allow a longer series of Ledger scenes (that had been filmed but were due to be dumped) to be put back in. That's why Bale's bits are the weak link this time.

By this time next year there will be at least two different longer versions out on DVD I'm willing to bet. One for the Christian Bale fans, one for Ledger fans. That's film making these days, I'm afraid :mark:

[SEATFreak]

To be fair, and without spoiling the film for anyone, I think we all know bad guys in films tend to say something and then do something else ;)
I mean, did any movie bad guys ever come back and take over the world like they said they would? The Joker's the same.

Especially the Joker. I mean I thought Mr Napier met a grizzly ecclesiastical end in the very first Batman movie? How could they meet again (sounds like a Very Lynn song) when Mr Napier's alter-ego is dead?

Unless The Dark Knight (or the Knight Rider as one BBC correspondent refered to it :uhoh: ) is set in an altogether different Gotham City which frankly is a better way of looking at it. I mean in Burton's Batman films not just Mr Napier but Mr Cobblepot also sung with the choir invisible. :laugh:

[jim mcglinchey]

Heath Ledger and now Morgan Freeman, is this film cursed?

[A.F.F.]

Jesus jim, you got me there big time :eek: God for bid he didn't die in that accident.

[Daniel]

Jesus jim, you got me there big time :eek: God for bid he didn't die in that accident.
Well they say it's a broken arm and shoulder so he sounds OK :)

[Hazell B]

Heath Ledger and now Morgan Freeman, is this film cursed?

Have the papers already been saying it is?

I wondered how long it would take :mark:

It was filmed forever ago, so by the time it came out the odds were at least two nasties would have befallen the stars, etc. It's about time the curse profits were asked "why so serious?" :p :

[angie1313]

As long as nothing happens to Christian Bale. he's a hottie!! :)

[Simmi]

The film has broken a few box office records, most recently becoming the fastest film to ever to reach $400million at the US box office (after 18 days). They reckon it isn't going to beat Titanic but as far as films go it could possibly become the second biggest of all time.

Having now seen it I agree with most people on here and can say it is a truely exceptional film. Not a throwaway comic book film but a serious piece of work that just oozes class. Beautifully shot, very tense throughout, but at the same time also very funny when Ledger is on screen. His performance was rightly given a lot of screen time. I was cynical about all Oscar mentions before I saw the film but after seeing it I dont think anyone could deny he threw everything into that role.

On a side note did anyone else think that film was seriously a 12A? It's not an issue to me how they classify it but I think it is interesting how mainstream films often push the very limits of their certificate. You can imagine parents taking a young child to that if they enjoyed Spiderman and having them scared witless.

[Hazell B]

As long as nothing happens to Christian Bale. he's a hottie!! :)


American Psycho ;) :up:

The 12A bothered me a bit in a few scenes too, Simmi. But the little lads sat near us somehow knew it was comic book, fantasy violence and lapped it up. It wasn't glorified like some violent films, somehow. Nolan's got a talent for getting adult and child entertainment in just the right balance, I think.

I disagreed more with ITV showing Jaws on TV in the afternoon at weekends.

[A.F.F.]

I finally got to see the movie and I was abit disappointed. It was a bit too long and too boring. All the characters were great, especially Harvey Dent and how he turned to Two Face. But it lacked any humour, even the dark and the plot was all over, like it was two movies combined. It wasn't bad but I fail to see how it managed to hit such a box office. Or is this world so cruel that death sells, even movie tickets :mark: Anyway, I liked Batman Begins better.

[CaptainRaiden]

I finally got to see the movie and I was abit disappointed. It was a bit too long and too boring.

To each his own I guess. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but the story needed that much time. How do you propose the director squeeze the rise of the Joker, Batman's struggles and the origin of Harvey Dent, all in under one and a half hour? The movie wouldn't have been as good as it is now.

This kind of storytelling needed this much time. I personally didn't want the movie to end, because I liked it so much. But then some people worship a movie like Star Wars and some can't stand it, I for one love all of them. Same could be said about Lord of the Rings, that was a long movie too, because the storytelling needed that much time, but I fell asleep during those three.


But it lacked any humour, even the dark and the plot was all over, like it was two movies combined.

You are the first person I have met so far who has a problem with the plot. Even the people who didn't like the movie much said that it was very well directed and had an amazing storyline/plot.

About the humor, it wasn't supposed to have any humor, this is an adult superhero movie, and isn't supposed to provide giggles, but still I heard myself and the whole theater laughing whenever Heath delivered one of his funny lines. Again, probably some people's sense of humor is selective I guess.


It wasn't bad but I fail to see how it managed to hit such a box office. Or is this world so cruel that death sells, even movie tickets

I would say that is unfair of you to say that. The movie would have been a mega hit even if Heath was alive. It just doesn't matter and it's wrong to see it in that light. This movie was exceptional and VERY well made with such a strong story and all actors acting out of their skin, something that was absent in SO many movies from the past 10 years.

As for why you didn't like the movie, see my Star Wars comment. :-D

[A.F.F.]

To each his own I guess. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but the story needed that much time. How do you propose the director squeeze the rise of the Joker, Batman's struggles and the origin of Harvey Dent, all in under one and a half hour? The movie wouldn't have been as good as it is now.

This kind of storytelling needed this much time. I personally didn't want the movie to end, because I liked it so much. But then some people worship a movie like Star Wars and some can't stand it, I for one love all of them. Same could be said about Lord of the Rings, that was a long movie too, because the storytelling needed that much time, but I fell asleep during those three.


Thanks for a good reply. Everybody got their own taste and this, like I said, wasn't my thing. I think Harvey Dent and the TwoFace origin would have earned an own movie. When a superhero movie introducing many characters, it can easily step on a mine which IMO happened with Dark Knight. Now there were pointless scenes which made the more longer but weren't important for the movie. For instance that ( SPOILER ALERT ) ferry scene. Apparently Nolan just had to bent the barbwire for the viewers that people of gotham aren't as crazy as Joker and there's some good in every one of us.



You are the first person I have met so far who has a problem with the plot. Even the people who didn't like the movie much said that it was very well directed and had an amazing storyline/plot.

About the humor, it wasn't supposed to have any humor, this is an adult superhero movie, and isn't supposed to provide giggles, but still I heard myself and the whole theater laughing whenever Heath delivered one of his funny lines. Again, probably some people's sense of humor is selective I guess.


I have read comics over twenty years now and in that twenty years I have bumped to far better Batman stories than this plot. I certainly know Batman is dark and mature character... or it suppose to be. It doesn't need clumsy or stupid humour like Schumacher helmed it. It needs witty and dark humour but only in certain places. Anyway, I didn't laugh once and what comes to Joker's punchlines, well... they just weren't funny. They were Joker lines, pretty much what they were suppose to be. Another thing is that I went to see a Batman movie and didn't get to see much of Batman. IMO there should have been a balance with those characters, now Batman was just a supporting one. The problem was that they had to consentrate on Joker and Harvey Dent.



I would say that is unfair of you to say that. The movie would have been a mega hit even if Heath was alive. It just doesn't matter and it's wrong to see it in that light. This movie was exceptional and VERY well made with such a strong story and all actors acting out of their skin, something that was absent in SO many movies from the past 10 years.

As for why you didn't like the movie, see my Star Wars comment. :-D

Sorry, I just hate disagree. If you watch closely movies from superhero genre, you can see they are not for everybody. Normally the fans take the biggest responsibility for the box office figures and if the movie is good, they go to see it many times. Hence, the first of Spider-Man. Huge success but how meny peole REALLY saw it?? And how many saw it several times.

I'm saying that Ledger's death and the huge hype for his "brilliant" performance in this movie, combined to a marketing it's not a children's movie got people curious. God for bid, it's second in all-time US box office. That's a little bit more than just a fans can deliver.

Don't get me wrong though. there's nothing wrong in that. People ought to see good movies, like Dark Knight. But if you read the first sentence of my previous post, I said I was a bit disappointed. It just wasn't worth of all the hype it have gotten. I can see you liked the movie very much and that's a good thing :) I hoped I would have liked it too. But from a movie fan to another, I don't have to like it just because you say so and you don't have to get upset, because I didn't like it ;)

Let's hope Watchmen bring it home :up:

[A.F.F.]

To each his own I guess. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but the story needed that much time. How do you propose the director squeeze the rise of the Joker, Batman's struggles and the origin of Harvey Dent, all in under one and a half hour? The movie wouldn't have been as good as it is now.

This kind of storytelling needed this much time. I personally didn't want the movie to end, because I liked it so much. But then some people worship a movie like Star Wars and some can't stand it, I for one love all of them. Same could be said about Lord of the Rings, that was a long movie too, because the storytelling needed that much time, but I fell asleep during those three.


Thanks for a good reply. Everybody got their own taste and this, like I said, wasn't my thing. I think Harvey Dent and the TwoFace origin would have earned an own movie. When a superhero movie introducing many characters, it can easily step on a mine which IMO happened with Dark Knight. Now there were pointless scenes which made the more longer but weren't important for the movie. For instance that ( SPOILER ALERT ) ferry scene. Apparently Nolan just had to bent the barbwire for the viewers that people of gotham aren't as crazy as Joker and there's some good in every one of us.



You are the first person I have met so far who has a problem with the plot. Even the people who didn't like the movie much said that it was very well directed and had an amazing storyline/plot.

About the humor, it wasn't supposed to have any humor, this is an adult superhero movie, and isn't supposed to provide giggles, but still I heard myself and the whole theater laughing whenever Heath delivered one of his funny lines. Again, probably some people's sense of humor is selective I guess.


I have read comics over twenty years now and in that twenty years I have bumped to far better Batman stories than this plot. I certainly know Batman is dark and mature character... or it suppose to be. It doesn't need clumsy or stupid humour like Schumacher helmed it. It needs witty and dark humour but only in certain places. Anyway, I didn't laugh once and what comes to Joker's punchlines, well... they just weren't funny. They were Joker lines, pretty much what they were suppose to be. Another thing is that I went to see a Batman movie and didn't get to see much of Batman. IMO there should have been a balance with those characters, now Batman was just a supporting one. The problem was that they had to consentrate on Joker and Harvey Dent.



I would say that is unfair of you to say that. The movie would have been a mega hit even if Heath was alive. It just doesn't matter and it's wrong to see it in that light. This movie was exceptional and VERY well made with such a strong story and all actors acting out of their skin, something that was absent in SO many movies from the past 10 years.

As for why you didn't like the movie, see my Star Wars comment. :-D

Sorry, I just have disagree. If you watch closely movies from superhero genre, you can see they are not for everybody. Normally the fans take the biggest responsibility for the box office figures and if the movie is good, they go to see it many times. Hence, the first of Spider-Man. Huge success but how meny peole REALLY saw it?? And how many saw it several times.

I'm saying that Ledger's death and the huge hype for his "brilliant" performance in this movie, combined to a marketing it's not a children's movie got people curious. God for bid, it's second in all-time US box office. That's a little bit more than just a fans can deliver.

Don't get me wrong though. there's nothing wrong in that. People ought to see good movies, like Dark Knight. But if you read the first sentence of my previous post, I said I was a bit disappointed. It just wasn't worth of all the hype it have gotten. I can see you liked the movie very much and that's a good thing :) I hoped I would have liked it too. But from a movie fan to another, I don't have to like it just because you say so and you don't have to get upset, because I didn't like it ;)

Let's hope Watchmen bring it home :up:

[CaptainRaiden]

I think Harvey Dent and the TwoFace origin would have earned an own movie. When a superhero movie introducing many characters, it can easily step on a mine which IMO happened with Dark Knight. Now there were pointless scenes which made the more longer but weren't important for the movie. For instance that ( SPOILER ALERT ) ferry scene. Apparently Nolan just had to bent the barbwire for the viewers that people of gotham aren't as crazy as Joker and there's some good in every one of us.

It's only my opinion, but I think having a mainstream superhero movie with the kind of scale and magnitude that it had, having only one main villain wouldn't have garnered that much interest and fan following. Also, how the Joker gave birth to the character of Two-face couldn't have been left for a third movie, because that would have meant ending the movie on a peak of interest from audience, which PROBABLY wouldn't have been a good ending for it to be so successful as it has become.

The ferry scene was needed to cement the Joker's anarchic and twisted psychology towards the end of the movie. I know it was already well established, but it needed an exclamation point and also for Batman to show his skills, which I think was at plenty in this movie. Definitely much more than Batman Begins, which is a movie I love as well.


I have read comics over twenty years now and in that twenty years I have bumped to far better Batman stories than this plot. I certainly know Batman is dark and mature character... or it suppose to be. It doesn't need clumsy or stupid humour like Schumacher helmed it. It needs witty and dark humour but only in certain places. Anyway, I didn't laugh once and what comes to Joker's punchlines, well... they just weren't funny. They were Joker lines, pretty much what they were suppose to be. Another thing is that I went to see a Batman movie and didn't get to see much of Batman. IMO there should have been a balance with those characters, now Batman was just a supporting one. The problem was that they had to consentrate on Joker and Harvey Dent.

I am a huge comic book fan myself, and I firmly believe that if we compare a motion picture to a comic book, the movie would always look bad. The same way with a movie made on a book. The reason? It's only seldom when your imagination would match that of the director's. Agreed that we can see the happenings in a graphic novel, but then we do imagine the voices and how it happens in our head. Not even Tim Burton's 1989 Batman was much like how I imagined it to be, because I compared it to the comics.

I mean can you seriously believe that anyone can capture the essence of Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" in a motion picture? I don't think so. They are only gonna end up ruining it probably.

I guess I was so happy to see the Dark Knight, because after watching Joel Schumacher's catastrophic, hideous and absolutely repulsive Batman and Robin, this was like a new life. I really can't find anything bad about Batman Begins and The Dark Knight after watching Schumacher's depiction of Batman and Robin attending a function in city hall inaugrating something by cutting a ribbon and using Bat credit cards in that absolute pig of a movie. (shudders) :(


Sorry, I just have disagree. If you watch closely movies from superhero genre, you can see they are not for everybody. Normally the fans take the biggest responsibility for the box office figures and if the movie is good, they go to see it many times. Hence, the first of Spider-Man. Huge success but how meny peole REALLY saw it?? And how many saw it several times.

I'm saying that Ledger's death and the huge hype for his "brilliant" performance in this movie, combined to a marketing it's not a children's movie got people curious. God for bid, it's second in all-time US box office. That's a little bit more than just a fans can deliver.

Don't get me wrong though. there's nothing wrong in that. People ought to see good movies, like Dark Knight. But if you read the first sentence of my previous post, I said I was a bit disappointed. It just wasn't worth of all the hype it have gotten. I can see you liked the movie very much and that's a good thing :) I hoped I would have liked it too. But from a movie fan to another, I don't have to like it just because you say so and you don't have to get upset, because I didn't like it ;)

Let's hope Watchmen bring it home :up:

Oh, believe me I'm not upset that you didn't like it, really. I was just curious as to why. I do still think that this movie was a sure shot biggest blockbuster of the decade, whether Heath had passed away or not. People didn't have to go watch it a second time, just to pay respect to Heath.

I'm sure the hype got people to the movie theaters the first time, but what about the second or the third time? I've seen it thrice, and I know a couple of people who have seen it even more times.

Anyway, I love the new direction the Batman franchise has taken, and I guess Nolan proved that a superhero movie doesn't have to be campy or cheesy and child friendly for it be a huge success. It can be just as dark and realistic and still be one huge blockbuster.

[A.F.F.]

I mean can you seriously believe that anyone can capture the essence of Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" in a motion picture? I don't think so. They are only gonna end up ruining it probably.


Not necessarily. Zack Snyder proved his loyalty with 300 and I'm anxious to see The Watchmen. He could be our guy ;) Or Frank himself ?

On the other hand, The Dark Knight Returns is one of the greatest graphic novels ever and I don't mind it would be left that way :)

[A.F.F.]

Oh, btw.

I would love to hear your view about Marvel franchise, especially now that they have their own studio and clear plans what they are going to do in the future.

[CaptainRaiden]

Oh, btw.

I would love to hear your view about Marvel franchise, especially now that they have their own studio and clear plans what they are going to do in the future.

I didn't like Spiderman 3 at all. Venom was a character that I really liked from the start, and they probably could have made him better in the movie if they wanted to, but again, they lost the plot trying to make the movie appeal to both children and adults. There are talks of introducing Carnage in the 4th, I just hope they don't ruin him as well.

I am looking forward to Wolverine's spinoff from them, but don't see how it's gonna attract a lot of audience. Everyone knows Wolverine from the three movies now already, maybe they could make a fourth installment of X-men by maybe exploring Nightcrawler more and introducing Gambit. But well....

I have high hopes from Watchmen, if 300 was anything to go by. I have to agree that Snyder did a very good job with 300 by sticking to the graphic novel.

BTW, what do you think about Bane, probably one of THE best Batman villains of all time from the comic books, again the character brutally destroyed by Mr. Schumacher. I really felt bad watching that. I hated the way such a complex and intelligent character was made to look....well, like a complete idiot.

Do you think he could be resurrected by Nolan and crew if they decide to make a third one? Would fit in well in this new realistic direction of the franchise. I just hope the damage done by Schumacher on that character doesn't prove to be too much, and I hope Nolan handles it with care.

[A.F.F.]

BTW, what do you think about Bane, probably one of THE best Batman villains of all time from the comic books, again the character brutally destroyed by Mr. Schumacher. I really felt bad watching that. I hated the way such a complex and intelligent character was made to look....well, like a complete idiot.

Do you think he could be resurrected by Nolan and crew if they decide to make a third one? Would fit in well in this new realistic direction of the franchise. I just hope the damage done by Schumacher on that character doesn't prove to be too much, and I hope Nolan handles it with care.


For me Schumacher's movies simply didn't happen. It's strange as he has done some good movies for instance Falling Down and Tigerland. For Batman he had a totally wrong approach and didn't just rape what Burton did but also killed the franchise for a decade :down: Bane wasn't the only character which he destroyed and it shows he just didn't have the slightest respect to the whole Batman theme. IMO he really underestimated and disrespected the viewers too.

After The Dark Knight's HUGE success, I'm pretty sure WB will do anything to get Nolan direct the third one. And as you said, they have an option for the third movie so I think it'll come.

And just as sure I am that Nolan will save any character from DC, should they choose Bane or not. He did wonderfull job with Scarecrow already at Batman Begins and now Joker and especially Twoface were brilliant. He brings the characters to modern day but doesn't forget that realistic touch with them and therefore they won't end up like complete clowns. :up:

[CaptainRaiden]

And just as sure I am that Nolan will save any character from DC, should they choose Bane or not. He did wonderfull job with Scarecrow already at Batman Begins and now Joker and especially Twoface were brilliant. He brings the characters to modern day but doesn't forget that realistic touch with them and therefore they won't end up like complete clowns. :up:

I think that's because Nolan and Burton actually did their homework on Batman through the comics and studied the origin and essence of each character and understood what each character was or stood for, unlike Schumacher, who it seems didn't have any idea of what in the blue heaven he was making. I mean if he had read even one comic book with Bane in it, he wouldn't have raped that character like he did.

*SPOILER ALERT* About Scarecrow though, I didn't like how he was treated in TDK. He was shown as nothing more than a drug peddler easily captured by Batman. I think this destroys any interest in fans of him returning in the future as the main villain. Scarecrow is actually one of my favorite Batman baddies. Cillian Murphy is great as Scarecrow, it's a damn shame that he was only there for one scene in TDK.

[F1boat]

X, you said that you are fan of Star Wars. Don't you find some similarities between the Dark Knight and the Revenge of the Sith? I mean how Two Face and Vader fell to the Dark Side and how there was a villain who twisted everything around himself (Darth Sidious and the Joker)?
I am not saying that tDK copied RotS or something I am just curious about your opinion.

[CaptainRaiden]

X, you said that you are fan of Star Wars. Don't you find some similarities between the Dark Knight and the Revenge of the Sith? I mean how Two Face and Vader fell to the Dark Side and how there was a villain who twisted everything around himself (Darth Sidious and the Joker)?
I am not saying that tDK copied RotS or something I am just curious about your opinion.

You know, that is a very good analysis. I'd say they are slightly similar, but with lots of big differences. I guess you would find a similar plot in many heroic movies.

Now, whereas Anakin was the main protagonist in RotS, Harvey Dent wasn't, although both were supposed to or destined to do great things. Also, Anakin becomes the accomplice/student of Darth Sidious, but Two-Face is his own separate villain. Joker only corrupts Harvey, whereas Anakin is forced by his love for Padme to join the dark side to save her.

Batman in this case would be compared to Obi Wan Kenobi, maybe some similarities as being incorruptable, but then a completely different ballgame. Now, I'm sure the Joker gets MUCH more screen time than Darth Sidious if you compare them. :p

Slightly similar storyline, yes, but only slightly. There are huge differences in characters and how they pan out to be. There is no one similar to Jim Gordon or Alfred or Rachel in RotS. So, these little nitty gritties change the whole equation I guess. I'd say for all the people who have seen both movies, it would be hard for them to make the comparison. :D

[F1boat]

Thanks for the answer. To me the differences which you mention are very important and I think that the main one is the fact that the Joker is a chaotic villain and the Emperor is "lawful evil" as you'd say if you are into DnD ;)
But there are some similarities and the main one to me is that hope survives, no matter how grim the situation is. To me these makes both movies very beautiful.

[ShiftingGears]

To me these makes both movies very beautiful.

I thought Revenge of the Sith was a dreadful movie. All SFX, and a very unconvincing dialogue.

[F1boat]

Matter of taste, pal ;) It's one of my favorite movies.

[CaptainRaiden]

Yep, a matter of taste. One of my friends likes Revenge of the Sith more than the other 5 episodes. I argued with him that The Empire Strikes Back is the best episode of them all, but he was fascinated by the fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

I personally liked Revenge of the Sith, but not as much as some of the other episodes.

[harsha]

I liked all the star wars movies.I felt the prequel episodes were undermined cause the people already knew the end result.it's like watching movies when you already know what's gonna happen.

[F1boat]

Yep, a matter of taste. One of my friends likes Revenge of the Sith more than the other 5 episodes. I argued with him that The Empire Strikes Back is the best episode of them all, but he was fascinated by the fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

I personally liked Revenge of the Sith, but not as much as some of the other episodes.

I am like your friend :)
I agree with harsha, as well, although I would add that part of the probmelm is that old fans remember their feeling while they were young and watching the old movies and the fact that they fail to feel the same with the new movies makes them to blame the films.

[angie1313]

Yep, a matter of taste. One of my friends likes Revenge of the Sith more than the other 5 episodes. I argued with him that The Empire Strikes Back is the best episode of them all, but he was fascinated by the fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

I personally liked Revenge of the Sith, but not as much as some of the other episodes.

It was ok...Certainly better than those first two disasters but I gotta agree with you about Empire Strikes Back. I think that was the best. No one seen Vader being Luke's father coming.

[harsha]

I didn't like Spiderman 3 at all. Venom was a character that I really liked from the start, and they probably could have made him better in the movie if they wanted to, but again, they lost the plot trying to make the movie appeal to both children and adults. There are talks of introducing Carnage in the 4th, I just hope they don't ruin him as well.

I am looking forward to Wolverine's spinoff from them, but don't see how it's gonna attract a lot of audience. Everyone knows Wolverine from the three movies now already, maybe they could make a fourth installment of X-men by maybe exploring Nightcrawler more and introducing Gambit. But well....

I have high hopes from Watchmen, if 300 was anything to go by. I have to agree that Snyder did a very good job with 300 by sticking to the graphic novel.

BTW, what do you think about Bane, probably one of THE best Batman villains of all time from the comic books, again the character brutally destroyed by Mr. Schumacher. I really felt bad watching that. I hated the way such a complex and intelligent character was made to look....well, like a complete idiot.

Do you think he could be resurrected by Nolan and crew if they decide to make a third one? Would fit in well in this new realistic direction of the franchise. I just hope the damage done by Schumacher on that character doesn't prove to be too much, and I hope Nolan handles it with care.

Gambit's slated to have a part in the Wolverine spinoff movie

you and me think a lot alike..

I dislike how Bane who's actually seen as very intelligent has been depicted in the movie.

Batman was never about skating in the Ice rinks...I just hope that Nolan doesn't get Robin in the picture.That would be killing off the franchise

[F1boat]

Harsha, I dunno about Robin. You keep seeing Joel's Robin, yet remember Joel's Two Face and now Nolan's Two Face is completely different. I think that Nolan can improve Robin a lot, especially if he uses the character not as a teen idol. I think that Daniel Radcliffe would make a good Robin and Nolan can develop interesting conflict.

[harsha]

Maybe

If you are aware of the ill-fated Robin...Jason Todd from the comics.If Chris Nolan uses some elements of his story

[Hazell B]

Nolan's already said he won't be able to get a Robin in his films, if he does more.

[F1boat]

Maybe

If you are aware of the ill-fated Robin...Jason Todd from the comics.If Chris Nolan uses some elements of his story

I liked the story in the animation "Return of the Joker", in which the Joker has tortured one Robin.

[CaptainRaiden]

Even though some of the views by F1boat and harsha are interesting, I don't think Robin has any place in Nolan's Batman saga. He likes to portray Batman as the lone vigilante and that's how it's gonna be.

By comic tradition, he would have to first introduce Dick Grayson as the first Robin, which I don't think viewers would be very thrilled about after seeing Batman Forever. But then again, this is Nolan we are talking about. However, I think he will never go for it if he decides to make a third one. I would not like that to happen personally.

Actually I'm happy with the way Batman is right now. I mean Nolan's Batman has evolved a great deal from his Batman Begins days. He has become faster, more clever, more agile(partly to the new suit) and more powerful, a bit closer to the Batman from comics. Clearly, he doesn't need a sidekick at this moment. There isn't any place for Robin in Nolan's version of the dark Batman in a very much realistic Gotham City.

[A.F.F.]

I agree with X-ecutioner. If we think of teenager, a boy or a girl, alonside with Batman doing what he does, hence kicking ***... it just won't work. it wouldn't be any realistic. IMO in Nolan's Batman, Batman has all the sidekicks he need. However, I don't know what will Fox do in the future?

What comes to Star Wars series, The Empire Strikes Back is the best one although I have a huge love for Return of the Jedi as it was the first Star Wars movie I ever saw :)

[harsha]

Even though some of the views by F1boat and harsha are interesting, I don't think Robin has any place in Nolan's Batman saga. He likes to portray Batman as the lone vigilante and that's how it's gonna be.

By comic tradition, he would have to first introduce Dick Grayson as the first Robin, which I don't think viewers would be very thrilled about after seeing Batman Forever. But then again, this is Nolan we are talking about. However, I think he will never go for it if he decides to make a third one. I would not like that to happen personally.



the name might be Dick Grayson but doesn't mean that he shouldn't have elements lifted from the other Robins around(Tim Drake,Dick Grayson,Jason Todd)

that said,i won't be thrilled to see Robin in a Nolan Movie