A Thread for the Sensible Seven

[Tazio]

Seven people on this forum backed Max in believing his private life, and "personal life"
can peacefully, coexist with his professional utilitarian Life. I'm one!
I would like to here from the rest of "Us" I will elaborate my reflections when
I'm not so pressed for time.
Cheers Mates!

Flamers stay away please.
Thanks!

[elinagr]

who cares about a porn-old man's sexual anomalities...? :P

hehe

[ioan]

It's good to know that there is still justice out there, especially against this brutal blood sucking press.

[bontebempo]

who cares about a porn-old man's sexual anomalities...? :P

hehe

totally agree. Sure many of you masturbate in the shower. Does it mean you can't perform your daily responsibilities? Course not.

[Dave B]

totally agree. Sure many of you masturbate in the shower. Does it mean you can't perform your daily responsibilities? Course not.
It does for my mate. Then again, he is a plumber...

[tinchote]

I'm also one of those.

I'll never cease to be amazed at the level of hypochrisy one can see these days. Private life is that, private life - even if you are a public person - and people who make a living on showing famous people's intimacy should be harshly punished.

[leopard]

I'd rather have my opinion detached on this matter that being a prominent figure Max should behave anything carefully scrutinized as every single mistake media would exploit it blasted more than he ever think before. A mistake could be trivial for averages but it could be a disaster for person like him.

It might never cross in his mind that they will ever want to follow him until such his personal life. I'd rather to criticize others performance from aspect other than their personal life.
We needn't had to know what others are doing in bedroom or bathroom, unless you are a window cleaner. :)

[gloomyDAY]

Sorry to ruin this jolly old thread fellas.

Max doesn't deserve the seat at the helm of the F1 let alone the FIA.
I'm not one to care over his personal life, but his track record is an embarrassment.

[leopard]

I do not say what he's done with his personal life deserves of defense nor the win on the lawsuit, but Yeah ... I think it would earn more praise to put aside personal life to measure standard of performance.
We are free to decide he shouldn't be at any place in F1 if we think he has poor performance and potentially put F1 in gloomy day. :)

[gloomyDAY]

I do not say what he's done with his personal life deserves of defense nor the win on the lawsuit, but Yeah ... I think it would earn more praise to put aside personal life to measure standard of performance.
We are free to decide he shouldn't be at any place in F1 if we think he has poor performance and potentially put F1 in gloomy day. :) :D

Look at the direction of the WRC.
Do you really want that to happen to F1?

[leopard]

:D

Look at the direction of the WRC.
Do you really want that to happen to F1?
Does it have correlation with having five girls in bed? :)

[MAX_THRUST]

severn sensible................WTF!!!!

You are without doubt either very blind ir stupid if you think he can carry on with his job. Wake up and smell the coffee boys. Your like sheep following the wolf to his cave for dinner. Blinkered, by the bull that Max spouts.

He can not continue, end of.....he's a joke!!!!!

No ones privacy should be invaded, but when it is you have to deal with the consequences. So if he was down loading child porn, by your reckoning he can still do his job? Your odd!!!!

[leopard]

Yeah, the seventh of seven senses is joke, humor. :)

[MAX_THRUST]

Oh that and everyone is still calling for his resignation. The man has no self respect or that of any members of his family. Great figure he is for the FIA.

What we get instead maybe worse for the sport, who knows, but at least they can meet with the people with the money that make the decisions.

No ones privacy should be invaded, but when it is you have to deal with the consequences. So if he was down loading child porn, by your reckoning he can still do his job? Your odd!!!!

Except that somebody downloading child porn is committing an offence, whereas Mosley hasn't been charged with anything.

But why let knowledge of the law get in the way of a pre-determined viewpoint?

[Bagwan]

The magnificent sensible seven .
Who were those masked men ?

Expose yourselves !
No , wait , I didn't put that right .

We should build a clubhouse .
It wouldn't have to be big , as we'll never get any new members from this forum unless new people join up .

[Robinho]

whilst i would rarely sit on the side of the press in most matters, i still maintain the stance that if you are doing something illegal then your privacy rights don't really apply - and seeing as Prosititution is illegal where does that leave Max, reagrdless of whether it was in private or not.

he may not have been charged with anything, but he has admitted to the consensual sex acts with multiple prositutes.

we can argue all day whether he has a right to privacy, but for me thats not the point, its the questionable and illegal acts a person with a high public profile has been involved in. if he was just having an affir that might be morally wrong to some, but not illegal and i would agree private.

which laws do you feel you can break, as long as its "in private"?

[Bagwan]

whilst i would rarely sit on the side of the press in most matters, i still maintain the stance that if you are doing something illegal then your privacy rights don't really apply - and seeing as Prosititution is illegal where does that leave Max, reagrdless of whether it was in private or not.

he may not have been charged with anything, but he has admitted to the consensual sex acts with multiple prositutes.

we can argue all day whether he has a right to privacy, but for me thats not the point, its the questionable and illegal acts a person with a high public profile has been involved in. if he was just having an affir that might be morally wrong to some, but not illegal and i would agree private.

which laws do you feel you can break, as long as its "in private"?

Do tell .
What is illegal about cavorting with a dominatrix ?

[Robinho]

nothing, its the prostitute part thats illegal. cavort away, with whoever you choose, but if you can be arrested for picking up prostitues and proststutes can be arrested for Soliciting then surely what Max did was illegal.

the case would never hold up as there is probably no evidence of money changing hands, and at worst it would involve a caution rather than a sentence, but as far as i know its still an illegal act, and as a high profile public figure you should be a little more carfeul IMO.

at the end of the day i have no particular issue with what he was up to, its his bald red ass, but if you take chances like that i think its a bit rich to complain about privacy - supposing there was a police sting into vice and sex trafficking and they had exposed this and Max was caught up in the middle of it, would we be defending his right to privacy then?

[Tazio]

Sorry to ruin this jolly old thread fellas. . No! I don't believe you are! There is another thread on this forum to express you dissenting opinion on this matter!



You are without doubt either very blind ir stupid .That goes for you too!
This is a thread I started for those of us who are of an opinion that differs from yours.
This is for the open minded that believe that F1 is no worse off than it was before this story broke.
Please leave!


Tamb', 'Boat, Tinch', leopard', Bags', and Ioan
I commend you all for recognizing what this means, and what it is :up:

[Tazio]

The magnificent sensible seven .
Who were those masked men ?
Tamb', 'Boat, Tinch', leopard', Bags', Taz' and Ioan!
My guess!

Please correct me if your name shouldn't be on this list!

[PolePosition_1]

severn sensible................WTF!!!!

You are without doubt either very blind ir stupid if you think he can carry on with his job. Wake up and smell the coffee boys. Your like sheep following the wolf to his cave for dinner. Blinkered, by the bull that Max spouts.

He can not continue, end of.....he's a joke!!!!!

No ones privacy should be invaded, but when it is you have to deal with the consequences. So if he was down loading child porn, by your reckoning he can still do his job? Your odd!!!!

Well, downloading child porn is illegal in the UK. Whereas having consenting sex with hookers is not.

Max said if he broke the law, he would have quit on the spot, even if it was just for speeding, but his position was it's his private life, it was legal and didn't harm anyone (apart from himself ;) ). So shouldn't affect his job. Its not his fault people are judging him on something totally subjective. And its not his fault his privacy was invaded.

I don't like the guy much, but feel people just aint objective about their opinions on this. They want him out, and using this as an excuse.

Personally, I'm glad he didn't leave over this. Because it'd just bring us one day closer to judgement by media.

[Tazio]

Well, downloading child porn is illegal in the UK. Whereas having consenting sex with hookers is not.

Max said if he broke the law, he would have quit on the spot, even if it was just for speeding, but his position was it's his private life, it was legal and didn't harm anyone (apart from himself ;) ). So shouldn't affect his job. Its not his fault people are judging him on something totally subjective. And its not his fault his privacy was invaded.

I don't like the guy much, but feel people just aint objective about their opinions on this. They want him out, and using this as an excuse.

Personally, I'm glad he didn't leave over this. Because it'd just bring us one day closer to judgement by media.Welcom to the "Enlightened Eight" :p :

There is still room on the Band Wagon!
Cheers

[harsha]

even if it's not the Private Life of Max Mosely that should be the cause for him to be sacked...his dubious decisions in ruining F1 should have really been enough

[BDunnell]

I should point out to those who think that what Max did was illegal that, if I remember correctly, the 'gathering' was classed as some kind of private party and therefore fell outside the scope of laws governing prostitution. Apparently, part of the News of the World's case was based on the fact that an assault charge could have been brought, because blood was drawn during the 'activities'.

[Bagwan]

nothing, its the prostitute part thats illegal. cavort away, with whoever you choose, but if you can be arrested for picking up prostitues and proststutes can be arrested for Soliciting then surely what Max did was illegal.

the case would never hold up as there is probably no evidence of money changing hands, and at worst it would involve a caution rather than a sentence, but as far as i know its still an illegal act, and as a high profile public figure you should be a little more carfeul IMO.

at the end of the day i have no particular issue with what he was up to, its his bald red ass, but if you take chances like that i think its a bit rich to complain about privacy - supposing there was a police sting into vice and sex trafficking and they had exposed this and Max was caught up in the middle of it, would we be defending his right to privacy then?

Evidently , from your "bald red ass" comment , you don't like Max .

But , I'm sorry that it doesn't change the fact that Max wasn't doing anything illegal .
Postulate all you wish about whether we would see it in a different light , had something else happened , but don't try to paint Max as a sex trafficker in the midst of it .

And , about taking chances , it was revealed during this whole episode , that Max has been at this for years .
He rented an apartment specifically for this use , and used a service he had used many times before . He also had consultation on how to lose a tail on his way there .

This has been called a "sting" .
Max was told he was being watched , and took measures to keep his activities secret .
A "sting" implies that it was set up to burn him , and given that he was being covert enough that his wife of 30 plus years didn't know , he was being pretty quiet .

It seems that it took an MI5 agent and his wife to get the goods on Max .
That would cost money , presumably at this point , enough to make a 13,000 quid reduction in the cost of the picture , chicken feed .

[tinchote]

If it was illegal, then I would like an explanation as to why neither MM nor the prostitutes were charged.

[ioan]

Tamb', 'Boat, Tinch', leopard', Bags', Taz' and Ioan!
My guess!

Please correct me if your name shouldn't be on this list!

Thanks Taz'!
I'm happy to be part of it, I'm honored to be cited in such company! :)

Cheers!

[BDunnell]

Thanks Taz'!
I'm happy to be part of it, I'm honored to be cited in such company! :)

Cheers!

Thank goodness the list doesn't take into account the reasons some of those on it have, in my opinion, come to their views about Max's private life.

[ioan]

Thank goodness the list doesn't take into account the reasons some of those on it have, in my opinion, come to their views about Max's private life.

Pardon me, but what do you exactly know about why we thought that a person has a right to have his own private life?!

Is it maybe that we value such things as privacy? :rolleyes:

[ioan]

If it was illegal, then I would like an explanation as to why neither MM nor the prostitutes were charged.

I doubt you will get a logical answer. The endless pages about this tema only brought to surface the incredible hate people around here feel in regard with Max Mosley's person.

[Tazio]

Thank goodness the list doesn't take into account the reasons some of those on it have, in my opinion, come to their views about Max's private life.Not sure who you are referring to. I have a very basic reason.
In fact it's been a mantra of mine for for a very long time.
I believe ones personal life is exactly that. Personal!

[tinchote]

Thank goodness the list doesn't take into account the reasons some of those on it have, in my opinion, come to their views about Max's private life.

:confused:

[ShiftingGears]

even if it's not the Private Life of Max Mosely that should be the cause for him to be sacked...his dubious decisions in ruining F1 should have really been enough

Exactly. That's why I didn't vote for Mosely staying.

[Tazio]

:rolleyes:
Thank goodness the list doesn't take into account the reasons some of those on it have, in my opinion, come to their views about Max's private life.

[markabilly]

Thank goodness the list doesn't take into account the reasons some of those on it have, in my opinion, come to their views about Max's private life.
Unfortunately appears all too true.

And this verdict vindicates what?

Let us see, my views were and remain Max's privacy was clearly violated. It never should have been made public. That violation was incapable of truly being disputed in a court of law, so the court verdict was no surprize.

However, someone in Max's position should be above reproach. That includes his private and public life. If he is not willing to meet such standards, then he has no business being where he is.

Only a very very few people are in such a position.

Nevertheless, Max manages to escape with his job by the vote. Be that as it may, he should have quietly dropped the lawsuit.

Instead, he publicly describes all this stuff, while denying he was playing the nazi, and thanks to his own witnesses, some more new stuff about him pimping for some "theater".

Saying in open court that I may have been a pervert and a pimp, a liar to my family, pretending to be something to them and to the public that i was not, but you can not prove I was playing a nazi. Make no mistake: max only proved and the court agreed that NOTW presented no substantive evidence in court of Max playing the Nazi.
Does it make you proud to know that the head of the FIA that governs the sport that each of you love so dearly, has admitted to all this stuff about being a pervert, consumer of the services of prostitutes and a pimp for some theater in Euston?

If that is your "vindication", then congratulations to each of you!!!

[MadDan]

how do we know that it was not RD that set max up

[ShiftingGears]

how do we know that it was not RD that set max up

How do we know it wasn't you?

[cosmicpanda]

how do we know that it was not RD that set max up

guilty until proven innocent, right?

[MadDan]

How do we know it wasn't you?


I WAS after his money

Ron Dennis denies link with Max Mosley affair

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2299070/Ron-Dennis-denies-link-with-Max-Mosley-affair.html


McLaren Formula One team principal Ron Dennis has categorically rejected accusations connecting him with an involvement in the tabloid investigation of FIA president Max Mosley.

Dennis has been forced to make his position clear following comments made by Radovan Novak, the general secretary of the Czech Automobile Association and an ally and friend of Mosley, on a Prague radio station
Novak is said to have suggested that the tabloid expose of Mosley's private life may have been linked to the spying scandal that made headlines last year involving McLaren.

[gloomyDAY]

Thank goodness the list doesn't take into account the reasons some of those on it have, in my opinion, come to their views about Max's private life. :D Yes, thank goodness!

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.ozelink.com/natures_energies/images/img78.jpg

Dedicated to the benighted 7!

[Tazio]

Unfortunately appears all too true.

And this verdict vindicates what?

Let us see, my views were and remain Max's privacy was clearly violated. It never should have been made public. That violation was incapable of truly being disputed in a court of law, so the court verdict was no surprize.

However, someone in Max's position should be above reproach. That includes his private and public life. If he is not willing to meet such standards, then he has no business being where he is.

Only a very very few people are in such a position.

Nevertheless, Max manages to escape with his job by the vote. Be that as it may, he should have quietly dropped the lawsuit.

Instead, he publicly describes all this stuff, while denying he was playing the nazi, and thanks to his own witnesses, some more new stuff about him pimping for some "theater".

Saying in open court that I may have been a pervert and a pimp, a liar to my family, pretending to be something to them and to the public that i was not, but you can not prove I was playing a nazi. Make no mistake: max only proved and the court agreed that NOTW presented no substantive evidence in court of Max playing the Nazi.
Does it make you proud to know that the head of the FIA that governs the sport that each of you love so dearly, has admitted to all this stuff about being a pervert, consumer of the services of prostitutes and a pimp for some theater in Euston?

If that is your "vindication", then congratulations to each of you!!!

My vindication is the man who happens to have a high profile position in motor racing, has the entire rest of time he spends in his pursuit of happiness exposed! This "Fish wrap" speaks to the bourgeois that are so simpleminded, it is with no doubt and in no uncertain terms that they are and always will be "declasse". I couldn't possibly imagine any better resolution of this issue if I could write the script myself. While people are demonizing Max they are momentarily relieved of their own guilt, as if by comparison their miserable little lives are not so meaningless, and disturbed

Nathaniel Hawthorne spoke of this human condition in "The Haunted Mind":

"In the depths of every heart, there is a tomb and a dungeon, though the lights, the music, and revelry above may cause us to forget their existence, and the buried ones, or prisoners whom they hide. But sometimes, and oftenest at midnight, those dark receptacles are flung wide open. In an hour like this, when the mind has a passive sensibility, but no active strength; when the imagination is a mirror, imparting vividness to all ideas, without the power of selecting or controlling them"

"Fatality, an emblem of the evil influence that rules your fortunes; a demon to whom you subjected yourself by some error at the outset of life, and were bound his slave forever, by once obeying him. See! those fiendish lineaments graven on the darkness, the writhed lip of scorn, the mockery of that living eye, the pointed finger, touching the sore place in your heart! Do you remember any act of enormous folly, at which you would blush, even in the remotest cavern of the earth? Then recognize your Shame."


I'm out of here chief!
Pleasant dreams :beer:

[Azumanga Davo]

http://www.ozelink.com/natures_energies/images/img78.jpg

Dedicated to the benighted 7!

A golden cock... erel, how apt...

[Bagwan]

Unfortunately appears all too true.

And this verdict vindicates what?

Let us see, my views were and remain Max's privacy was clearly violated. It never should have been made public. That violation was incapable of truly being disputed in a court of law, so the court verdict was no surprize.

However, someone in Max's position should be above reproach. That includes his private and public life. If he is not willing to meet such standards, then he has no business being where he is.

Only a very very few people are in such a position.

Nevertheless, Max manages to escape with his job by the vote. Be that as it may, he should have quietly dropped the lawsuit.

Instead, he publicly describes all this stuff, while denying he was playing the nazi, and thanks to his own witnesses, some more new stuff about him pimping for some "theater".

Saying in open court that I may have been a pervert and a pimp, a liar to my family, pretending to be something to them and to the public that i was not, but you can not prove I was playing a nazi. Make no mistake: max only proved and the court agreed that NOTW presented no substantive evidence in court of Max playing the Nazi.
Does it make you proud to know that the head of the FIA that governs the sport that each of you love so dearly, has admitted to all this stuff about being a pervert, consumer of the services of prostitutes and a pimp for some theater in Euston?

If that is your "vindication", then congratulations to each of you!!!

Quick , someone get the Koolaid . This one's going critical .

What if all of the numbered supporters here were to be shown to be into the same activities that Max has been up to ?

Would you still answer our posts ?

Would you shake Max's hand if he offered ?

even if it's not the Private Life of Max Mosely that should be the cause for him to be sacked...his dubious decisions in ruining F1 should have really been enough

Whilst I have defended Mosley in the News of the World debate, I'm quite happy for anyone to feel that he should resign or be sacked due to his failures, real or perceived, in his professional capacity.

What I found unacceptable is that the very same people who expressed the opinion that Mosley was indulging in a 'Witch-Hunt' with the Spygate affair were themselves happy to do the same in relation to the News of the World story.

[markabilly]

Quick , someone get the Koolaid . This one's going critical .

What if all of the numbered supporters here were to be shown to be into the same activities that Max has been up to ?

Would you still answer our posts ?

Would you shake Max's hand if he offered ?
What if all of the numbered supporters here were to be shown to be into the same activities that Max has been up to ?Would you still answer our posts ?



I assume none of you are in high positions of trust, such as having the job of keeping the sport from being brought into disrepute or similar matters, so as to whether you are a liar to your family and a liar to everyone else, etc and so forth, just does not matter to me or to the general public.

tis the position and job held that matters, pure and simple.

Plus I would like to think that most of you would have the good sense not to ignore a couple of warnings, the good sense not to sit in open court and sprew forth......




Would you shake Max's hand if he offered ?
no but i would offer him a cool glass of the reverend jimmi jones kool aid, the special mixture of the "Jonestown special" if max was so inclined :beer:

of course then the problem would become of who would protect the sport from bernie, maclaren, yaddaadda :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

And just as suely as night follows day:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69448

I hope Max shoves it so far up their collective @$$E$,
they won't know whether to blink or go sailing :eek:

[markabilly]

My vindication is the man who happens to have a high profile position in motor racing, has the entire rest of time he spends in his pursuit of happiness exposed! This "Fish wrap" speaks to the bourgeois that are so simpleminded, it is with no doubt and in no uncertain terms that they are and always will be "declasse". I couldn't possibly imagine any better resolution of this issue if I could write the script myself. While people are demonizing Max they are momentarily relieved of their own guilt, as if by comparison their miserable little lives are not so meaningless, and disturbed


I'm out of here chief!
Pleasant dreams :beer:


if it were ron dennis, kimi, hamilton, or some unknown member of a pit crew, your argument would hold up far better..but it ain't

..as to script writing, I do not know of anyone crazy enough to have written out this script, and if they had written it, it would have been dismissed as totally unrealistic, nothing like this could ever happen...

[Tazio]

What if all of the numbered supporters here were to be shown to be into the same activities that Max has been up to ?Would you still answer our posts ?



I assume none of you are in high positions of trust, such as having the job of keeping the sport from being brought into disrepute or similar matters, so as to whether you are a liar to your family and a liar to everyone else, etc and so forth, just does not matter to me or to the general public.

tis the position and job held that matters, pure and simple.

Plus I would like to think that most of you would have the good sense not to ignore a couple of warnings, the good sense not to sit in open court and sprew forth......




Would you shake Max's hand if he offered ?
no but i would offer him a cool glass of the reverend jimmi jones kool aid, the special mixture of the "Jonestown special" if max was so inclined :beer:

of course then the problem would become of who would protect the sport from bernie, maclaren, yaddaadda :rolleyes: So in other words you believe in selective protection of civil rights!
You got yourself hooked on your own 'shine :p :
It happens to the best of them!
Salute! :beer:

[Tazio]

..as to script writing, I do not know of anyone crazy enough to have written out this script, and if they had written it, it would have been dismissed as totally unrealistic, nothing like this could ever happen...

Which is just one more reminder that
life at times can truely be stranger than fiction ;)

[markabilly]

And just as suely as night follows day:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69448

I hope Max shoves it so far up their collective @$$E$,
they won't know whether to blink or go sailing :eek:


Great stuff: more max explaining he was being kinky and sick, maybe even pimping with my little theater, but I ain't no nazi, as though it really serves any purpose, except to constantly remind people of what he really is......

But the good thing is that lawyers and buzzards got to eat too.

[Bagwan]

What if all of the numbered supporters here were to be shown to be into the same activities that Max has been up to ?Would you still answer our posts ?



I assume none of you are in high positions of trust, such as having the job of keeping the sport from being brought into disrepute or similar matters, so as to whether you are a liar to your family and a liar to everyone else, etc and so forth, just does not matter to me or to the general public.

tis the position and job held that matters, pure and simple.

Plus I would like to think that most of you would have the good sense not to ignore a couple of warnings, the good sense not to sit in open court and sprew forth......




Would you shake Max's hand if he offered ?
no but i would offer him a cool glass of the reverend jimmi jones kool aid, the special mixture of the "Jonestown special" if max was so inclined :beer:

of course then the problem would become of who would protect the sport from bernie, maclaren, yaddaadda :rolleyes:


Well , we should get to the gist of it all then .
Exactly how public does the position need to be to make Max's not illegal activities untenable ?
Cigar Bill ran a country whilst taking the stick from the moral majority .
I remember the locals down in Arkansas bragging about the time he told them he had carpet in the bed of his pickup truck for those precious moments in the parking lots .

The good ol' boy got elected , kept the faith , and now runs the lecture circuit , collecting large sums for reminiscing .



Now , if Max had the girls in McLaren crew uniforms , and was counting in $1,000,000 increments , you might have a case .

[markabilly]

So in other words you believe in selective protection of civil rights!
You got yourself hooked on your own 'shine :p :
It happens to the best of them!
Salute! :beer:


"civil rights"??

One thing to protect them and another thing to sprew forth so as to constantly remind everyone what you really are

and all this debate about nazi as though that matters at all.....worrying over the the small detail while ignoring the big picture...

Sort of like out in LA where all these people were trying to tilt the coke machines to steal money, but after it fell over on them, they would collect large damages for failing to warn of the danagers----and the reson why one sees all those little labels warning of same.

Or someone suing a newspaper, saying that he was a mass serial killer, when all he did was murder his parents (and having killed them, they were not likely to do that again....)

Speaking of hypocrisy, no better words can be found then these:
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."

[Roamy]

severn sensible................WTF!!!!

You are without doubt either very blind ir stupid if you think he can carry on with his job. Wake up and smell the coffee boys. Your like sheep following the wolf to his cave for dinner. Blinkered, by the bull that Max spouts.

He can not continue, end of.....he's a joke!!!!!

No ones privacy should be invaded, but when it is you have to deal with the consequences. So if he was down loading child porn, by your reckoning he can still do his job? Your odd!!!!

Now here is a guy from the sensible million. I don't need my kids watching the head of F1 whipping whores. He has enough money to keep his private life private. He is sloppy and arrogant and needs the Das Boot right up the place where the sun don't shine. Send me over his bank account and I will show you how to do whores without getting caught!! Any Bagwan will be my tour guide!! Where the hell is recoleta???

[Tazio]

And just as suely as night follows day:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69448

I hope Max shoves it so far up their collective @$$E$,
they won't know whether to blink or go sailing :eek:
It appears that Max is a rather clever fellow!

This is going to be like shooting fish in a barrel! :p :

"While admitting that she did approach the News if the World with her story in return for money,
she claims that in addition to not realizing the much of what appeared in the tabloid
in the April 6 issue – when she talked of the Nazi theme to the orgy – was written by a third party,
and that she was “put under massive pressure to put her name on it."
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35514

I wonder if she has already signed a book deal?
Bild, and NotW are in a heap o' trouble!
It appears to this onlooker that in respect to these publications
Max is employing a "Scorched Earth" policy, and not taking any prisoners.
Good on you Max! :up:

[markabilly]

It appears that Max is a rather clever fellow!

This is going to be like shooting fish in a barrel! :p :

"While admitting that she did approach the News if the World with her story in return for money,
she claims that in addition to not realizing the much of what appeared in the tabloid
in the April 6 issue – when she talked of the Nazi theme to the orgy – was written by a third party,
and that she was “put under massive pressure to put her name on it."
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35514

I wonder if she has already signed a book deal?
Bild, and NotW are in a heap o' trouble!
It appears to this onlooker that in respect to these publications
Max is employing a "Scorched Earth" policy, and not taking any prisoners.
Good on you Max! :up:
Like I said laywers and buzzards got to eat....

better hope no lawyer figures out what is "Nazi-theme" in the world of S and M

or what I said in another post:

Sooner or later, one of these defense lawyers are going to wake up, hire a shrink, and point out the very obvious: The clear connection between sadisitic behavior of wearing a uniform while engaging in sadistic abuse and a nazi behavior

what do you think is the connection between Jonestown, Aushwitz, and the type of behavior that max engaged in with the uniforms?

That little quote of max will come back in the hands of the right lawyer..."unerotic"

Sure, and pigs fly

https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/dsp...6+3_11_OCR.pdf (https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/dspace/bitstream/1794/1634/1/Diss_6_2+%26+3_11_OCR.pdf)

a easy to find starting place, and then there was the "Aryan" comment, with Max and others saying “Sieg heil” and other responding “We are Aryan, the blondes.” All of course in German, with a military jacket.....

another is http://www.holocaust-history.org/lif...ftonT377.shtml (http://www.holocaust-history.org/lifton/LiftonT377.shtml)

[Roamy]

My daughter became involved in auto racing at around 10 years old to include reading F1 news. She has been to several F1 races as well as many other series here it the states. While I am confident I could have still guided her down the path to self respect, professionalism, and self made success I really didn't have whipping whores by the leader of the "Pinnacle" on the curriculum at age 10.

[BDunnell]

Pardon me, but what do you exactly know about why we thought that a person has a right to have his own private life?!

Is it maybe that we value such things as privacy? :rolleyes:

Because, to put it bluntly, I find the idea that certain people would have been as concerned about a similar invasion of, for example, Ron Dennis' privacy a bit hard to accept.

[ioan]

if it were ron dennis, kimi, hamilton, or some unknown member of a pit crew, your argument would hold up far better..but it ain't

Because in your opinion RD, Hamilton and Raikkonen are as much public figures representing F1 as an unknown member of a pit crew?! :s

Go get some of that koolaid.

[BDunnell]

I think the best and fairest comment on this whole case was made by Mr Justice Eady in his summing-up — if I remember the quote correctly, he described it as being 'interesting to the public, but not in the public interest'.

[ioan]

Because, to put it bluntly, I find the idea that certain people would have been as concerned about a similar invasion of, for example, Ron Dennis' privacy a bit hard to accept.

Did you see any of us dissecting RD recent divorce? I don't think so. :rolleyes:
I'm not interested about the private life of anyone else but me. :)

[BDunnell]

Did you see any of us dissecting RD recent divorce? I don't think so. :rolleyes:
I'm not interested about the private life of anyone else but me. :)

Wasn't exactly as high-profile a matter, though, was it?

I'm sure you can understand my slight scepticism on this point.

[BDunnell]

And now even the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr George Carey, has weighed in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7527319.stm

Personally, I think the Church has enough to worry about in its own ranks without moralising over what others get up to in their private lives. Carey's comments aren't really about privacy laws — they're just a way of saying that he doesn't like people having private lives that don't conform to some sort of norm.

[ioan]

Wasn't exactly as high-profile a matter, though, was it?

It was reported in the press, so I knew about it. But that was all, never felt the urge to make a storm out of it, and neither did anyone else.


I'm sure you can understand my slight scepticism on this point.

Not really. As far as I'm concerned I can't remember commenting about the private life of anyone around here.

[ioan]

And now even the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr George Carey, has weighed in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7527319.stm

Personally, I think the Church has enough to worry about in its own ranks without moralising over what others get up to in their private lives. Carey's comments aren't really about privacy laws — they're just a way of saying that he doesn't like people having private lives that don't conform to some sort of norm.

Oh , the church should first take care of their own image, the hypocrites. And yeah I'm not a believer, certainly not in the way the church sees it, in case anyone was wondering.

[BDunnell]

It was reported in the press, so I knew about it. But that was all, never felt the urge to make a storm out of it, and neither did anyone else.



Not really. As far as I'm concerned I can't remember commenting about the private life of anyone around here.

Fair enough. In that case, I take it back.

[markabilly]

Because in your opinion RD, Hamilton and Raikkonen are as much public figures representing F1 as an unknown member of a pit crew?! :s

Go get some of that koolaid.

No,

None of them head up the FIA, the regulatory body responsible for seeing to fair enforcement of the rules, determining who has brought the sport into disrepute, and so on......and continuing with his litigation only makes it worse.

If a man's own family can not trust him, because he lied to them for forty years, spent his family's money for his own special entertainment under false pretense, all just another form of stealing, then why should anyone else?

And all of you should read up on sadistic abuse, especially where it gets tothe nature of making one's butt bleed. It is a mental disorder, and far more of a indicator of very serious mental issues than just some sex behind closed doors

[Tazio]

And all of you should read up on sadistic abuse, especially where it gets tothe nature of making one's butt bleed. It is a mental disorder, and far more of a indicator of very serious mental issues than just some sex behind closed doors Yes but it's jolly good after a spot of tea ;)
Right as rain old bean! Now go thither governor!
I fear you’re ripe for an aneurysm.
:rotflmao:

[markabilly]

Yes but it's jolly good after a spot of tea ;)
Right as rain old bean! Now go thither governor!

:rotflmao:

Tis the old man himself who said he has been "enjoying" S & M for forty years....and once you understand the connection and psychological disorders associated with such behaviors, it is more than a a little frightening. For example

"The Sadistic Personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of gratuitous cruelty, aggression, and demeaning behaviors which indicate the existence of deep-seated contempt for other people and an utter lack of empathy. Some sadists are "utilitarian": they leverage their explosive violence to establish a position of unchallenged dominance within a relationship. Unlike psychopaths, they rarely use physical force in the commission of crimes. Rather, their aggressiveness is embedded in an interpersonal context and is expressed in social settings, such as the family or the workplace.

This narcissistic need for an audience manifests itself in other circumstances. Sadists strive to humiliate people in front of witnesses. This makes them feel omnipotent. Power plays are important to them and they are likely to treat people under their control or entrusted to their care harshly: a subordinate, a child, a student, a prisoner, a patient, or a spouse are all liable to suffer the consequences of the sadist's "control freakery" and exacting "disciplinary" measures.

Sadists like to inflict pain because they find suffering, both corporeal and psychological, amusing. They torture animals and people because, to them, the sights and sounds of a creature writhing in agony are hilarious and pleasurable. Sadists go to great lengths to hurt others: they lie, deceive, commit crimes, and even make personal sacrifices merely so as to enjoy the cathartic moment of witnessing someone else's misery.

Sadists are masters of abuse by proxy and ambient abuse. They terrorize and intimidate even their nearest and dearest into doing their bidding. They create an aura and atmosphere of unmitigated yet diffuse dread and consternation. This they achieve by promulgating complex "rules of the house" that restrict the autonomy of their dependants (spouses, children, employees, patients, clients, etc.). They have the final word and are the ultimate law. They must be obeyed, no matter how arbitrary and senseless are their rulings and decisions.

Most sadists are fascinated by gore and violence. They are vicarious serial killers: they channel their homicidal urges in socially acceptable ways by "studying" and admiring historical figures such as Hitler, for instance. They love guns and other weapons, are fascinated by death, torture, and martial arts in all their forms."

No wonder that Maxie and his "best" contact have wiped their hardrives, trying to hide emails and such......

[ShiftingGears]

Tis the old man himself who said he has been "enjoying" S & M for forty years....and once you understand the connection and psychological disorders associated with such behaviors, it is more than a a little frightening. For example

"The Sadistic Personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of gratuitous cruelty, aggression, and demeaning behaviors which indicate the existence of deep-seated contempt for other people and an utter lack of empathy. Some sadists are "utilitarian": they leverage their explosive violence to establish a position of unchallenged dominance within a relationship. Unlike psychopaths, they rarely use physical force in the commission of crimes. Rather, their aggressiveness is embedded in an interpersonal context and is expressed in social settings, such as the family or the workplace.

This narcissistic need for an audience manifests itself in other circumstances. Sadists strive to humiliate people in front of witnesses. This makes them feel omnipotent. Power plays are important to them and they are likely to treat people under their control or entrusted to their care harshly: a subordinate, a child, a student, a prisoner, a patient, or a spouse are all liable to suffer the consequences of the sadist's "control freakery" and exacting "disciplinary" measures.

Sadists like to inflict pain because they find suffering, both corporeal and psychological, amusing. They torture animals and people because, to them, the sights and sounds of a creature writhing in agony are hilarious and pleasurable. Sadists go to great lengths to hurt others: they lie, deceive, commit crimes, and even make personal sacrifices merely so as to enjoy the cathartic moment of witnessing someone else's misery.

Sadists are masters of abuse by proxy and ambient abuse. They terrorize and intimidate even their nearest and dearest into doing their bidding. They create an aura and atmosphere of unmitigated yet diffuse dread and consternation. This they achieve by promulgating complex "rules of the house" that restrict the autonomy of their dependants (spouses, children, employees, patients, clients, etc.). They have the final word and are the ultimate law. They must be obeyed, no matter how arbitrary and senseless are their rulings and decisions.

Most sadists are fascinated by gore and violence. They are vicarious serial killers: they channel their homicidal urges in socially acceptable ways by "studying" and admiring historical figures such as Hitler, for instance. They love guns and other weapons, are fascinated by death, torture, and martial arts in all their forms."

No wonder that Maxie and his "best" contact have wiped their hardrives, trying to hide emails and such......

Luckily Max isn't a serial killer, then.

Off your high horse!

[markabilly]

Luckily Max isn't a serial killer, then.

Off your high horse!
Does not mean that is not his dream come true....."vicarious serial killers" was the quote,--they live through others or act it out in their mind

"Sadists classically are believed to seek social positions that enable them to exercise their need to control others and dole out harsh punishment or humiliation. For this reason, some have postulated that there is a higher prevalence of sadism among individuals who work in such settings as law enforcement, correctional facilities, the military, government, and the justice system" (Kaminer D, Stein DJ: Sadistic personality disorder in perpetrators of human rights abuses: a South African case study. J Personal Disord 15:475–86, 2001)

And I could add the sex status nature of his role playing, where in the party that Max ordered, the others were exclusively women, in the two parties so causually, even with pride, described by max as being ordered by him.

Max should keep his mouth shut.

Indeed the continuation of the lawsuits represents the "control freakery" nature of the disorder---In his mind, Max will control the press, seek his revenge and inflict humiliation on them, indeed for such a small matter as suggesting max was on a witch hunt......


So what does this have to do with Formula one? Plenty, given his role in F1. These lawsuits are an example. The reference to JYS as a certified half-wit. Another very easy example is that One can now never answer the question about his leading role in the drive to ban Mac for two years, impose the 100 million fine as to whether it was driven by a sense of fairness or by sadism, excercising the "need to control others and dole out harsh punsihment or humilation".

And max just keeps on digging.......and max is exactly what formula one needs as its leader. And did I mention the terms used for black people in the role playing when inflicting some humiliation on two of the participants? Max tried to claim it meant brunette, but in the German language, the term is actually used as the chief means to describe black people

But max is happy, for "we are the Aryans and the blondes"

[Tazio]

Does not mean that is not his dream come true....."vicarious serial killers" was the quote,--they live through others or act it out in their mind

"Sadists classically are believed to seek social positions that enable them to exercise their need to control others and dole out harsh punishment or humiliation. For this reason, some have postulated that there is a higher prevalence of sadism among individuals who work in such settings as law enforcement, correctional facilities, the military, government, and the justice system" (Kaminer D, Stein DJ: Sadistic personality disorder in perpetrators of human rights abuses: a South African case study. J Personal Disord 15:475–86, 2001)

And I could add the sex status nature of his role playing, where in the party that Max ordered, the others were exclusively women, in the two parties so causually, even with pride, described by max as being ordered by him.

Max should keep his mouth shut.

Indeed the continuation of the lawsuits represents the "control freakery" nature of the disorder---In his mind, Max will control the press, seek his revenge and inflict humiliation on them, indeed for such a small matter as suggesting max was on a witch hunt......


So what does this have to do with Formula one? Plenty, given his role in F1. These lawsuits are an example. The reference to JYS as a certified half-wit. Another very easy example is that One can now never answer the question about his leading role in the drive to ban Mac for two years, impose the 100 million fine as to whether it was driven by a sense of fairness or by sadism, excercising the "need to control others and dole out harsh punsihment or humilation".

And max just keeps on digging.......and max is exactly what formula one needs as its leader. And did I mention the terms used for black people in the role playing when inflicting some humiliation on two of the participants? Max tried to claim it meant brunette, but in the German language, the term is actually used as the chief means to describe black people

But max is happy, for "we are the Aryans and the blondes"
:laugh:

[markabilly]

Does not mean that is not his dream come true....."vicarious serial killers" was the quote,--they live through others or act it out in their mind

"Sadists classically are believed to seek social positions that enable them to exercise their need to control others and dole out harsh punishment or humiliation. For this reason, some have postulated that there is a higher prevalence of sadism among individuals who work in such settings as law enforcement, correctional facilities, the military, government, and the justice system" (Kaminer D, Stein DJ: Sadistic personality disorder in perpetrators of human rights abuses: a South African case study. J Personal Disord 15:475–86, 2001)

And I could add the sex status nature of his role playing, where in the party that Max ordered, the others were exclusively women, in the two parties so causually, even with pride, described by max as being ordered by him.

Max should keep his mouth shut.

Indeed the continuation of the lawsuits represents the "control freakery" nature of the disorder---In his mind, Max will control the press, seek his revenge and inflict humiliation on them, indeed for such a small matter as suggesting max was on a witch hunt......


So what does this have to do with Formula one? Plenty, given his role in F1. These lawsuits are an example. The reference to JYS as a certified half-wit. Another very easy example is that One can now never answer the question about his leading role in the drive to ban Mac for two years, impose the 100 million fine as to whether it was driven by a sense of fairness or by sadism, excercising the "need to control others and dole out harsh punsihment or humilation".

And max just keeps on digging.......and max is exactly what formula one needs as its leader. And did I mention the terms used for black people in the role playing when inflicting some humiliation on two of the participants? Max tried to claim it meant brunette, but in the German language, the term is actually used as the chief means to describe black people

But max is happy, for "we are the Aryans and the blondes"


:laugh:

glad to see you are happy like max.....funny how so many became outraged because of some Spanish folks trying to make fun of Lewis Hamilton dressed themselves up, as Dunnel put it, "blackened up", and went to the practice in Spain. was met with indignate outrage...FIA started a whole campaign of anti-racism

The ones involved said it was all in good fun......True, that started as a public event, but now MAx has chosen to make his stuff far more public than sitting in some stands at a race track during a non-race practice event and has sued for slander in several countries......

if degrading women in private is just fun, the references to blacks (or brunettes??? :rotflmao: what a joke of an excuse that) while degrading some participants, a few "sieg heils", a German military jacket (not a police jacket) and some "we are the Aryans and the blondes",and all of the rest are just fun games for some old man and his old judge.....you don't have to be a believer, but the words still ring true for hypocrites:
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

[ioan]

glad to see you are happy like max.....funny how so many became outraged because of some Spanish folks trying to make fun of Lewis Hamilton dressed themselves up, as Dunnel put it, "blackened up", and went to the practice in Spain. was met with indignate outrage...FIA started a whole campaign of anti-racism

The ones involved said it was all in good fun......True, that started as a public event, but now MAx has chosen to make his stuff far more public than sitting in some stands at a race track during a non-race practice event and has sued for slander in several countries...... [/I]

I think you are mixing apples with bananas at this moment.

[Tazio]

Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy, Horatio-abilly"

[Bagwan]

I think the only one whipped whilst inside the paddock recently has been your friend Scott not Speed .
Max tried to keep his whipping under wraps .

Was it Willy or Andy that went to a party a few years ago in Nazi garb ? He still has his position .


Some might say , in regards to Max's showing all in court , that since it's out , he might as well have it all out .
Easily understood is the fact that what people might imagine could be worse .

If one looks to those psychiatric ideas of yours , one just might find that Max , if he is as you say , may have found the perfect outlet for these tendencies in his forays into the S&M thing .
What you use for diagnosis might also then be interpretted as therapy .

Taken as such , one might postulate that without this "therapy" , Max might not have been capable of being irreplaceable , as he was not long before this came out .

[markabilly]

I think you are mixing apples with bananas at this moment.
Yes you are right, the so-called "fans" were not humilating and degrading women in Spain, not one good spanking at all....so much for therapy

Max should keep his mouth shut, celebrate while he can. Where the real issues are not privacy but truthfulness and being into nazi themes in a court case, sooner or later things will only get worse for max and the FIA.....and all the kool aid will not be enough to save him :beer:

[BDunnell]

I am sure that some sort of psychological 'issue' does lie behind Max's appetite for S&M, and I'm sure that a psychologist would have a field day with him. But this, in my view, doesn't make the whole story any less amusing, because it seems to be only one part of his character and hasn't affected his work (unlike many mental illnesses that can consume one's entire life and make you unable to function properly), and it has no bearing on the outcome of the court case.

[markabilly]

I am sure that some sort of psychological 'issue' does lie behind Max's appetite for S&M, and I'm sure that a psychologist would have a field day with him. But this, in my view, doesn't make the whole story any less amusing, because it seems to be only one part of his character and hasn't affected his work (unlike many mental illnesses that can consume one's entire life and make you unable to function properly), and it has no bearing on the outcome of the court case.

While i felt that mac got what it deserved at the end over the spying saga, there are those that were not so convinced, and it certainly was far less than what max urged. As it was said above, "Sadists classically are believed to seek social positions that enable them to exercise their need to control others and dole out harsh punishment or humiliation."

So much for being able to project a personna of being fair.....and that is fundamental to his position

So much for vindication.....

[ioan]

Yes you are right, the so-called "fans" were not humilating and degrading women in Spain...

:rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

While i felt that mac got what it deserved at the end over the spying saga, there are those that were not so convinced, and it certainly was far less than what max urged. As it was said above, "Sadists classically are believed to seek social positions that enable them to exercise their need to control others and dole out harsh punishment or humiliation."

So much for being able to project a personna of being fair.....and that is fundamental to his position

So much for vindication.....

I simply don't agree that the two things are connected in this case. Plenty of people would act in exactly the same way even without being S&M enthusiasts.

[markabilly]

max and the fia and bernie along with the fans who tolerate his behavior that he intends to continue to proclaim from open court, all deserve each other.
now repeat after me, "we are the Aryans and the blondes", and proud of it.

Color me gone from the stinking mess.

[ioan]

I simply don't agree that the two things are connected in this case. Plenty of people would act in exactly the same way even without being S&M enthusiasts.

Exactly.

[MAX_THRUST]

So Max did nothing ilegal. Not quite!!! He just hasn't been caught yet.....

[Tazio]

Color me gone from the stinking mess.

Ba-bye! ;)
:beer:

[Tazio]

So Max did nothing ilegal. Not quite!!! He just hasn't been caught yet.....
:rolleyes:

[Dzeidzei]

Tamb', 'Boat, Tinch', leopard', Bags', Taz' and Ioan!
My guess!

Please correct me if your name shouldn't be on this list!

Can you add my name? I like girls in uniforms too. Especially French maids...

[Tazio]

Can you add my name? I like girls in uniforms too. Especially French maids...You are either one who voted for Max to step down. you voted for him to stay, or you didn't vote!! How sayith ye?

[Dzeidzei]

You are either one who voted for Max to step down. you voted for him to stay, or you didn't vote!! How sayith ye?

I didnt vote. Couldnt care less if he bangs sheep on his speartime, but I hate what he´s done to the sport.

Max is sick and he´s stupid, but these are not crimes. And sometimes you wish stupidity was illegal.

[ShiftingGears]

So Max did nothing ilegal. Not quite!!! He just hasn't been caught yet.....

I agree - You haven't been proved to have massacred dozens of people, but you still did it, and just haven't been caught yet.

[MAX_THRUST]

What ever he has done will be investigated until the person or persons who

[MAX_THRUST]

set out to cause this grief to MAX by uncovering his little games finds something. If anything Max has made things a whole lot worse for himself. Everyone has broken the law at some point, intentionally or otherwise, but you can guarantee he is being watched and investigated. Some one will sink the ship of hapy arrogance.......

I still can't believe how many of you think he has been hard done by? Your a strange fickle bunch....

[Knock-on]

Sensible Seven?

SS for short!

NEWSFLASH!!

Max is being supported by the SS

:laugh:

(Joke Pino, joke ;) )

[PolePosition_1]

Unfortunately appears all too true.

And this verdict vindicates what?

Let us see, my views were and remain Max's privacy was clearly violated. It never should have been made public. That violation was incapable of truly being disputed in a court of law, so the court verdict was no surprize.

However, someone in Max's position should be above reproach. That includes his private and public life. If he is not willing to meet such standards, then he has no business being where he is.

Only a very very few people are in such a position.

Nevertheless, Max manages to escape with his job by the vote. Be that as it may, he should have quietly dropped the lawsuit.

Instead, he publicly describes all this stuff, while denying he was playing the nazi, and thanks to his own witnesses, some more new stuff about him pimping for some "theater".

Saying in open court that I may have been a pervert and a pimp, a liar to my family, pretending to be something to them and to the public that i was not, but you can not prove I was playing a nazi. Make no mistake: max only proved and the court agreed that NOTW presented no substantive evidence in court of Max playing the Nazi.
Does it make you proud to know that the head of the FIA that governs the sport that each of you love so dearly, has admitted to all this stuff about being a pervert, consumer of the services of prostitutes and a pimp for some theater in Euston?

If that is your "vindication", then congratulations to each of you!!!

All due respect here, but its because of comments like that that we have laws.

Laws in place to make sure people aren't judged by stereotypes and given a fair chance.

To you, what he did was wrong, despite it being legal. But what you see as wrong is totally subjective to how you view life. Personally, its not my cup of tea, but I'm not one to judge him on it. I believe what he does in his private time is up to him. As long as its in line with the law.

In other societys, its frowned upon what women are allowed to drive on public roads, in others they think its weird women have equal rights, in others they think its wrong to eat bacon.

All different parts of the world have different cultures (despite globalisation :) ). And people brought up in these varying cultures, in some respects with good reason, form incredibly different opinions on certain issues to culture. So for example, someone brought up in Iran, is bound to have different stereotypes to us purely on the society (which are foundations for who we are) they’re from.

And I think people who say ‘blah blah should be sacked for this and that because I think its sick and wrong’ is dangerous. And I’m glad that we have laws in place which disregard personal views as to what is right and what is wrong. They have tendency to just take black and white issues into account. And that’s important, and your post above reinforces my opinion on this matter. With all due respect, what right have you got to say what’s sick and perverted?

That’s your opinion, and your more than entitled to it, but your opinion shouldn’t have any physical or material impact on someone else’s life. Which is how it is, and why we have laws in place like they currently are.

You also mention people in his position should be above getting caught etc. But once again, with all due respect, we’re all entitled to a private life, sure people in certain positions should be more careful if what they get up to is not the ‘norm’. But he did that, he hired out an apartment etc etc just for this. That’s more than good enough for taking care in activities. But considering he had people especially after him to catch him out, whatever he does, he was going to get caught no how careful he was. And in that respect that argument doesn’t stand.

[PolePosition_1]

"civil rights"??

One thing to protect them and another thing to sprew forth so as to constantly remind everyone what you really are

and all this debate about nazi as though that matters at all.....worrying over the the small detail while ignoring the big picture...

Sort of like out in LA where all these people were trying to tilt the coke machines to steal money, but after it fell over on them, they would collect large damages for failing to warn of the danagers----and the reson why one sees all those little labels warning of same.

Or someone suing a newspaper, saying that he was a mass serial killer, when all he did was murder his parents (and having killed them, they were not likely to do that again....)

Speaking of hypocrisy, no better words can be found then these:
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."

Your examples don't really transfer over to Max's case, since stealing money from a vending machine and killing your parents are illegal activities.

[PolePosition_1]

No,

None of them head up the FIA, the regulatory body responsible for seeing to fair enforcement of the rules, determining who has brought the sport into disrepute, and so on......and continuing with his litigation only makes it worse.

If a man's own family can not trust him, because he lied to them for forty years, spent his family's money for his own special entertainment under false pretense, all just another form of stealing, then why should anyone else?

And all of you should read up on sadistic abuse, especially where it gets tothe nature of making one's butt bleed. It is a mental disorder, and far more of a indicator of very serious mental issues than just some sex behind closed doors


Erm, Ron Dennis is responsible for the McLaren Group, a multi million pound business. The drivers are role models for millions of youngsters around the world.

Your view on this, I find slightly disturbing. You come across as if you'd happily judge and trial this man on your beliefs.

[PolePosition_1]

Tis the old man himself who said he has been "enjoying" S & M for forty years....and once you understand the connection and psychological disorders associated with such behaviors, it is more than a a little frightening. For example

"The Sadistic Personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of gratuitous cruelty, aggression, and demeaning behaviors which indicate the existence of deep-seated contempt for other people and an utter lack of empathy. Some sadists are "utilitarian": they leverage their explosive violence to establish a position of unchallenged dominance within a relationship. Unlike psychopaths, they rarely use physical force in the commission of crimes. Rather, their aggressiveness is embedded in an interpersonal context and is expressed in social settings, such as the family or the workplace.

This narcissistic need for an audience manifests itself in other circumstances. Sadists strive to humiliate people in front of witnesses. This makes them feel omnipotent. Power plays are important to them and they are likely to treat people under their control or entrusted to their care harshly: a subordinate, a child, a student, a prisoner, a patient, or a spouse are all liable to suffer the consequences of the sadist's "control freakery" and exacting "disciplinary" measures.

Sadists like to inflict pain because they find suffering, both corporeal and psychological, amusing. They torture animals and people because, to them, the sights and sounds of a creature writhing in agony are hilarious and pleasurable. Sadists go to great lengths to hurt others: they lie, deceive, commit crimes, and even make personal sacrifices merely so as to enjoy the cathartic moment of witnessing someone else's misery.

Sadists are masters of abuse by proxy and ambient abuse. They terrorize and intimidate even their nearest and dearest into doing their bidding. They create an aura and atmosphere of unmitigated yet diffuse dread and consternation. This they achieve by promulgating complex "rules of the house" that restrict the autonomy of their dependants (spouses, children, employees, patients, clients, etc.). They have the final word and are the ultimate law. They must be obeyed, no matter how arbitrary and senseless are their rulings and decisions.

Most sadists are fascinated by gore and violence. They are vicarious serial killers: they channel their homicidal urges in socially acceptable ways by "studying" and admiring historical figures such as Hitler, for instance. They love guns and other weapons, are fascinated by death, torture, and martial arts in all their forms."

No wonder that Maxie and his "best" contact have wiped their hardrives, trying to hide emails and such......

You honestly believe that Max Mosley fits that description?

[PolePosition_1]

While i felt that mac got what it deserved at the end over the spying saga, there are those that were not so convinced, and it certainly was far less than what max urged. As it was said above, "Sadists classically are believed to seek social positions that enable them to exercise their need to control others and dole out harsh punishment or humiliation."

So much for being able to project a personna of being fair.....and that is fundamental to his position

So much for vindication.....

You seem to be basing all youir opinions on one book by one author - maybe read several books, and get knowledgable in the topic (if your that interested in it) and then form your own opinions :)

[Tazio]

What ever he has done will be investigated until the person or persons who set out to cause this grief to MAX by uncovering his little games finds something. If anything Max has made things a whole lot worse for himself. Everyone has broken the law at some point, intentionally or otherwise, but you can guarantee he is being watched and investigated. Some one will sink the ship of hapy arrogance.......
Like I said in an earlier post, get used to disapointment




I still can't believe how many of you think he has been hard done by? Your a strange fickle bunch....
Sorry to interrupt you’re little fantasy, but

that "group" includes the judge, Sir David Eady,
Who awarded Mr. Mosley, damages equivalent to about $120,000 and legal costs estimated to be at least $850,000 in his lawsuit against The News of the World.

[ioan]

All due respect here, but its because of comments like that that we have laws.

Laws in place to make sure people aren't judged by stereotypes and given a fair chance.

To you, what he did was wrong, despite it being legal. But what you see as wrong is totally subjective to how you view life. Personally, its not my cup of tea, but I'm not one to judge him on it. I believe what he does in his private time is up to him. As long as its in line with the law.

In other societys, its frowned upon what women are allowed to drive on public roads, in others they think its weird women have equal rights, in others they think its wrong to eat bacon.

All different parts of the world have different cultures (despite globalisation :) ). And people brought up in these varying cultures, in some respects with good reason, form incredibly different opinions on certain issues to culture. So for example, someone brought up in Iran, is bound to have different stereotypes to us purely on the society (which are foundations for who we are) they’re from.

And I think people who say ‘blah blah should be sacked for this and that because I think its sick and wrong’ is dangerous. And I’m glad that we have laws in place which disregard personal views as to what is right and what is wrong. They have tendency to just take black and white issues into account. And that’s important, and your post above reinforces my opinion on this matter. With all due respect, what right have you got to say what’s sick and perverted?

That’s your opinion, and your more than entitled to it, but your opinion shouldn’t have any physical or material impact on someone else’s life. Which is how it is, and why we have laws in place like they currently are.

You also mention people in his position should be above getting caught etc. But once again, with all due respect, we’re all entitled to a private life, sure people in certain positions should be more careful if what they get up to is not the ‘norm’. But he did that, he hired out an apartment etc etc just for this. That’s more than good enough for taking care in activities. But considering he had people especially after him to catch him out, whatever he does, he was going to get caught no how careful he was. And in that respect that argument doesn’t stand.

Excellent post! :up:

[MAX_THRUST]

Like the judge hasn't been doing the same sort of thing as Max for years and just happens to be a like minded depraved sado. Sorry I'm clearlt too synical for you guys who believe in truth and justice, whilst the rest of us can see how corrupt the FIA is and MAX.

Even Flavio "can't keep it in my trousers" Briatorie thinks the recent events have damged F1.

MAx will be fondly remembered as the NAZI, prostitute buying leader of the FIA, whilst Bernie will be known as the greedy dwarf....

I'm not trying to wind anyone up, and I'm not trying to be shocking. But I do not know a single high profile, personallity, business man that has ever gotten away with being caught out. Regardless what the judges say people have formed their own opinions. Many of those people are far more influential than SMACKS MOSLEY!!!!

[Tazio]

Like the judge hasn't been doing the same sort of thing as Max for years and just happens to be a like minded depraved sado. :eek: You have some evidence to back up that absurd statemen ;)

Sorry I'm clearlt too synical for you guys who believe in truth and justice, whilst the rest of us can see how corrupt the FIA is and MAX. Separete issue my man :down:


MAx will be fondly remembered as the NAZI, prostitute buying leader of the FIA. Only by his detractors! You can't get those silver tinted glasses off can you? :p :

.
Regardless what the judges say people have formed their own opinions. Many of those people are far more influential than SMACKS MOSLEY!!!! Yea why get the legal system invoved?
:dozey:

[ioan]

Like the judge hasn't been doing the same sort of thing as Max for years and just happens to be a like minded depraved sado. Sorry I'm clearlt too synical for you guys who believe in truth and justice, whilst the rest of us can see how corrupt the FIA is and MAX.

Even Flavio "can't keep it in my trousers" Briatorie thinks the recent events have damged F1.

MAx will be fondly remembered as the NAZI, prostitute buying leader of the FIA, whilst Bernie will be known as the greedy dwarf....

I'm not trying to wind anyone up, and I'm not trying to be shocking. But I do not know a single high profile, personallity, business man that has ever gotten away with being caught out. Regardless what the judges say people have formed their own opinions. Many of those people are far more influential than SMACKS MOSLEY!!!!

:rolleyes:
You're clearly lost! Looks like your hate for Max Mosley is driving you nutts. Can you sleep at night, or are you dreaming about him?! :p :

[MAX_THRUST]

No not at all..... I just can't believe you are all standing up for him, most people in the industry want him gone, yet you guys think he's great. Do any of you by daily papers????

You have a lovely rose coloured pair of glasses that you view the world through. The man makes my skin crawl evety time I see that face.......uuurrgghh!!! He must of paid alot of money to get women to sleep with him, something I never had a problem with, maybe thats why I think he's such a looser.

I think the FIA has made a complete arse of itsself to be honest by keeping him. There are many people within the FIA that want him out as they aware of the corruption with in. Viva la France.......

All due respect here, but its because of comments like that that we have laws.

Laws in place to make sure people aren't judged by stereotypes and given a fair chance.

To you, what he did was wrong, despite it being legal. But what you see as wrong is totally subjective to how you view life. Personally, its not my cup of tea, but I'm not one to judge him on it. I believe what he does in his private time is up to him. As long as its in line with the law.

In other societys, its frowned upon what women are allowed to drive on public roads, in others they think its weird women have equal rights, in others they think its wrong to eat bacon.

All different parts of the world have different cultures (despite globalisation :) ). And people brought up in these varying cultures, in some respects with good reason, form incredibly different opinions on certain issues to culture. So for example, someone brought up in Iran, is bound to have different stereotypes to us purely on the society (which are foundations for who we are) they’re from.

And I think people who say ‘blah blah should be sacked for this and that because I think its sick and wrong’ is dangerous. And I’m glad that we have laws in place which disregard personal views as to what is right and what is wrong. They have tendency to just take black and white issues into account. And that’s important, and your post above reinforces my opinion on this matter. With all due respect, what right have you got to say what’s sick and perverted?

That’s your opinion, and your more than entitled to it, but your opinion shouldn’t have any physical or material impact on someone else’s life. Which is how it is, and why we have laws in place like they currently are.

You also mention people in his position should be above getting caught etc. But once again, with all due respect, we’re all entitled to a private life, sure people in certain positions should be more careful if what they get up to is not the ‘norm’. But he did that, he hired out an apartment etc etc just for this. That’s more than good enough for taking care in activities. But considering he had people especially after him to catch him out, whatever he does, he was going to get caught no how careful he was. And in that respect that argument doesn’t stand.


Excellent post! :up:

I second that.

He must of paid alot of money to get women to sleep with him, something I never had a problem with

You never had a problem with paying money to get women to sleep with you?

Sunday, 27 July 2008
Jul.27 (GMM) FIA president Max Mosley is considering setting up a legal fund to enable less wealthy people to sue newspapers for breaches of privacy.

The 68-year-old Briton last week won his high-profile pursuit of the scandal publication News of the World following its expose earlier this year about his unconventional sex life.

Speaking for the first time since the High Court victory, Mosley told the Sunday Telegraph that he also intends to take action against media outlets across Europe, particularly in France, Germany and Italy.

He also wants less wealthy people to have access to money with which to pursue newspapers for similar exposes.

"I feel very strongly that some newspapers literally ruin people's lives and more has to be done to stop this," Mosley said.

Also in the interview, Mosley settled speculation that events triggered by the News of the World expose had led to estrangement from his two sons and wife.

"My wife and I have been together for 50 years and we are staying together," he said.

Meanwhile, Mosley said he is "keeping an open mind" about whether his enemies in F1 are connected with the attempt to destroy his reputation, image and career"

http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/9600/900/

[ioan]

Cheers for that!

[ioan]

No not at all..... I just can't believe you are all standing up for him, most people in the industry want him gone, yet you guys think he's great. Do any of you by daily papers????

You have a lovely rose coloured pair of glasses that you view the world through. The man makes my skin crawl evety time I see that face.......uuurrgghh!!! He must of paid alot of money to get women to sleep with him, something I never had a problem with, maybe thats why I think he's such a looser.

I think the FIA has made a complete arse of itsself to be honest by keeping him. There are many people within the FIA that want him out as they aware of the corruption with in. Viva la France.......

Your hatred towards someone with whom you have no direct relation is unbelievable!
Did he run over your dog or what?!

[ioan]

You never had a problem with paying money to get women to sleep with you?

Good question! :D

[MAX_THRUST]

haha ha, I think you know what I meant? I'm not an ugly old git with to much time on my hands, and too much money.

If only Max had been caught before Diana died then he could have saved her, saint bloody Mosley..........and still people want him out.

Third of the FIA have no confidence, and they are the ones with the guts to say it. The rest are thinking promotion.

I'm glad we have Jackie Stewart around to again call for Smacks to resign.

So with all this anti media work, when will he get time to run the FIA????
Oh ofcourse now he can't go getting spanked by hookers he's got to fill his time with something. He loves a fight doesn't he and humilating himself. This is all part of his little game. Lets hope his wife doesn't come forward and tell the NOTW about several domestic violence cases at home. Hes clearly very controlling, which is a huge part of an abuses character. I'm not saying he is abusing his wife ofcourse...

[ioan]

haha ha, I think you know what I meant? I'm not an ugly old git with to much time on my hands, and too much money.

You can still become one! It's never too late! :laugh:


If only Max had been caught before Diana died then he could have saved her, saint bloody Mosley..........and still people want him out.

And your point being?! :rolleyes:


Third of the FIA have no confidence, and they are the ones with the guts to say it.

As far as I know A third is not majority, not in a democratic world! SO what exactly was your point? :\


I'm glad we have Jackie Stewart around to again call for Smacks to resign.

You can keep him, it's all yours! :D


So with all this anti media work, when will he get time to run the FIA????

We shall see!


Oh ofcourse now he can't go getting spanked by hookers he's got to fill his time with something.

At least he found something intelligen to do with his spare time!


He loves a fight doesn't he and humilating himself.

He wasn't humiliated, he won over those who wanted to humiliate him. Go read again the sentence.


Lets hope his wife doesn't come forward and tell the NOTW about several domestic violence cases at home. Hes clearly very controlling, which is a huge part of an abuses character. I'm not saying he is abusing his wife ofcourse...

It is obvious that your favorite "passe temps" is others personal life!
You might be next on his list of defamatory people! :laugh:

[MAX_THRUST]

Hes keeping an open mind as to who stiched him up in F1,

Here we go, who's gonna get a riddiculous fine now.....not Ferrari or is it????

Well they did not get what they wanted which is McClaren kicked out. Would Ferrari do such a thing? Who knows. There is clearly more to this case than any of us realise and this is why I find your defense of him so surprising. One : hes never done anything that directly benefited you and never will, Two : there is so much more you don't know. Hence I tend to believe no smoke without fire. It doesn't mean I believe the media, I am capable in this free world to make my own decisions and to judge people on those decisions.

I think it would be naive of any one to think he is beyond reproach for his actions and this whole court case is MAx showing us his strength. Hes an old man and in time the truth will emerge, by which point it'll be to late for the FIA. F1 has washed its hands of Max in many ways, no one wants him at he races and no wants to be seen talking to him, he's back to being the smelly kid at school that no one liked.

[MAX_THRUST]

SandM is all about humiliation.

If Max had sorted the Media out then Diana would never have died, I was extracting the urine out of his attempts to help poor people. Insulting Bar***** he is. He's real class at upsetting the lower classes with comments like that, next he'll be trying to find Madeline.

[MAX_THRUST]

I like Max would revel in the chance to go face to face with him in court. Tear him a new one......

[MAX_THRUST]

What happened to Freedom of speech. Oh yes Max son of Oswald is all for that unless its about him.

[MAX_THRUST]

I'm bored now as you only disected part of my thread so the bits you didn't I assume you have no answer to. Its a shame you have to answer everything with a question it shows a lack of argument. WE don't have to justify what we say here, we can say it.

Seriously though, I enjoyed that this afternoon. CAtch you guys later, come and visit me in jail.

[PolePosition_1]

No not at all..... I just can't believe you are all standing up for him, most people in the industry want him gone, yet you guys think he's great. Do any of you by daily papers????

You have a lovely rose coloured pair of glasses that you view the world through. The man makes my skin crawl evety time I see that face.......uuurrgghh!!! He must of paid alot of money to get women to sleep with him, something I never had a problem with, maybe thats why I think he's such a looser.

I think the FIA has made a complete arse of itsself to be honest by keeping him. There are many people within the FIA that want him out as they aware of the corruption with in. Viva la France.......


No offence Max, but when you say “don’t you read daily papers” – followed by us wearing our rose tinted glasses (despite me being a so called anti-ferrari fan) I find hard to take serious.

Surely we’re not following the crowd, the media doesn’t present us with the news, especially daily newspapers. They present us with THEIR version of the news, which 9 times out of 10 can be viewed from more than one angle.

Presumably you have been reading the daily papers, and hence your enable to understand Max Mosley point of view.

I’m not a reader of daily newspapers, but I’m sure if you invested in a copy of the Guardian or another ‘respectful’ (albeit they all change their stories to fit their views on the world) paper instead of The Sun and Mirror .

With regards to most of the industry – it would be interesting to see what the Motorsport Associations who called for him to quit now think on this matter. Has anyone got a source about their reaction to all of this?

[PolePosition_1]

Hes keeping an open mind as to who stiched him up in F1,

Here we go, who's gonna get a riddiculous fine now.....not Ferrari or is it????

Well they did not get what they wanted which is McClaren kicked out. Would Ferrari do such a thing? Who knows. There is clearly more to this case than any of us realise and this is why I find your defense of him so surprising. One : hes never done anything that directly benefited you and never will, Two : there is so much more you don't know. Hence I tend to believe no smoke without fire. It doesn't mean I believe the media, I am capable in this free world to make my own decisions and to judge people on those decisions.

I think it would be naive of any one to think he is beyond reproach for his actions and this whole court case is MAx showing us his strength. Hes an old man and in time the truth will emerge, by which point it'll be to late for the FIA. F1 has washed its hands of Max in many ways, no one wants him at he races and no wants to be seen talking to him, he's back to being the smelly kid at school that no one liked.


Max - tell me to get lost if you don't want to answer.

But can I have some information about yourself? I don't understand where your coming from whatsoever.

Where you from? How Old are you? What job do you do / study at school? How long you been watching F1, who you support? etc etc

I just want to try understand where these opinions come from.

[ioan]

Max - tell me to get lost if you don't want to answer.

But can I have some information about yourself? I don't understand where your coming from whatsoever.

Where you from? How Old are you? What job do you do / study at school? How long you been watching F1, who you support? etc etc

I just want to try understand where these opinions come from.

Seconded!

[Tazio]

I just want to try understand where these opinions come from.
He's been chasing Darth Maximus across three galaxies, over the last 3.12 billion Earth years.
Rumor has it his latest quest sprung from Uranus! :eek:

[PolePosition_1]

Seconded!

Strange thing he hasn't replied, he's been on since and presumably seen our posts. Maybe he realises he's wrong :)

[ioan]

Strange thing he hasn't replied, he's been on since and presumably seen our posts. Maybe he realises he's wrong :)

You never know, prepare for the worse! :D

"The truth of the matter is this – that no grown up person gives the slightest damn about what other people do in their sex lives. It is not even a subject for discussion. It used to be 50 years ago that if someone was gay then it was a big drama. In England it was illegal and you could go to prison. But all that is now finished – people don't care.

"So as long as it is adults and it is consensual and it is private and, as they say, you don't frighten the horses, then nobody cares. The grown ups simply don't care and the people who do care are not worth talking to."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69514

Wonder to whom he could be referring?

[Tazio]

"The truth of the matter is this – that no grown up person gives the slightest damn about what other people do in their sex lives. It is not even a subject for discussion. It used to be 50 years ago that if someone was gay then it was a big drama. In England it was illegal and you could go to prison. But all that is now finished – people don't care.

"So as long as it is adults and it is consensual and it is private and, as they say, you don't frighten the horses, then nobody cares. The grown ups simply don't care and the people who do care are not worth talking to."


W-O-R-D!! ;)

[Knock-on]

"The truth of the matter is this – that no grown up person gives the slightest damn about what other people do in their sex lives. It is not even a subject for discussion. It used to be 50 years ago that if someone was gay then it was a big drama. In England it was illegal and you could go to prison. But all that is now finished – people don't care.

"So as long as it is adults and it is consensual and it is private and, as they say, you don't frighten the horses, then nobody cares. The grown ups simply don't care and the people who do care are not worth talking to."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69514

Wonder to whom he could be referring?


Max is being a little simplistic here.

People DO care about what goes on behind closed doors otherwise he would have told his family he likes having orgies where prostitutes dress as German Guards and order him around in German while claiming they are of Aryan race.

The fact Max does not subscribe to this opinion is up to Max but he cannot dictate how others should consider his actions.

What is even more disturbing is his statement that people who find his behaviour depraved are not worth talking to. As has been seen, quite a few high profile people and country rulers find his actions abhorrent and Max is further alienating them with such statements.

Hardly diplomatic and the w-o-r-d-s of the President of the FIA!

[Dave B]

"The people who do care are not worth talking to"

Which presumably includes Prince Albert of Monaco (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3941640.ece) and Shaikh Salman Bin Hamad Al-Khalifa, Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Bahrain (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3671144.ece). :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Which presumably includes Prince Albert of Monaco (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3941640.ece) and Shaikh Salman Bin Hamad Al-Khalifa, Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Bahrain (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3671144.ece). :rolleyes:

Well to be honest to the last 2 of them I wouldn't talk either. Maybe you would be happy to talk to them knowing that in their countries womens have almost no rights at all?! :rolleyes:

On the other hand these people only declined Mosley's visits because the NOTW lied and sait that there were "Nazi connotations to Mosley's activities, something that has been ruled against by a High Court of Justice!

Next year they will all happily want to shake Mosley's hand, and you will have nothing to ramble about.

[ioan]

Max is being a little simplistic here.

People DO care about what goes on behind closed doors otherwise he would have told his family he likes having orgies where prostitutes dress as German Guards and order him around in German while claiming they are of Aryan race.

The fact Max does not subscribe to this opinion is up to Max but he cannot dictate how others should consider his actions.

What is even more disturbing is his statement that people who find his behaviour depraved are not worth talking to. As has been seen, quite a few high profile people and country rulers find his actions abhorrent and Max is further alienating them with such statements.

Hardly diplomatic and the w-o-r-d-s of the President of the FIA!

:laugh:

You are talking as if you knew more about his family than Max himself. :laugh:

[Knock-on]

:laugh:

You are talking as if you knew more about his family than Max himself. :laugh:

:confused:

Just going on what Max has already been quoted on as saying.

Have you anything constructive or was there no point to your post?

What is even more disturbing is his statement that people who find his behaviour depraved are not worth talking to. As has been seen, quite a few high profile people and country rulers find his actions abhorrent and Max is further alienating them with such statements.

Can you please provide the evidence that Max was asked not to attend some events on the basis that it was his sex-life, and not the 'Nazi' claim, that was the problem?

If not, then you are the one being simplistic.

Are you sure you're not Jackie Stewart?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69519

"FIA president Max Mosley still thinks it 'more likely than not' that the News of the World story about his private life was a set-up to try and get him out of office.

Mosley has suspected from the start that the breaking of the story could be part of a conspiracy from someone involved in either Formula One or road cars to weaken his position and force him to resign.

Although there are ongoing investigations into the matter, especially since Mosley was warned earlier in the year that he was being followed, there has not yet been any confirmation of a plot to get him out.

However, speaking this week at length for the first time since the stories of his sex life broke, Mosley said he still believes that there is more to the case that it being a simple 'kiss and tell' story.

"I think there is a strong probability that the News of the World did not just chance on it," said Mosley, speaking to a select few journalists including autosport.com in Monaco this week.

"That is being investigated very carefully and in great detail at the moment, and sooner or later we will know exactly what happened."

When asked whether he believed he was set-up, Mosley said: "I think it is more likely than not. Yes."

His feelings about the nature of a conspiracy against him have been fuelled by the fact that Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone has even put forward the identity of the individual who could be behind a scheme.

"Well, Bernie gave me a name," he said. "But with Bernie, you have got to be a little bit cautious, shall we say.

"I still don't know for sure who it was yet, and I am not going to blame anybody until I am certain. I think it is probably a subject I better draw a veil over."

Mosley did elaborate, however, and say the individual concerned was 'not unconnected' with Formula One - but has made it clear that he will not take the matter further until he has final proof he was set up"

Anybody wanting to condemn Max for his bedroom activities also want to condemn the activities of the un-named individual?

After all, it gives you the perfect chance to provide evidence that you are not a hypocrite.

[ioan]

Anybody wanting to condemn Max for his bedroom activities also want to condemn the activities of the un-named individual?

After all, it gives you the perfect chance to provide evidence that you are not a hypocrite.

Knowing how judgement is passed around here I guess it will depend on the name of the person! ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Anybody wanting to condemn Max...also want to condemn the activities of the un-named individual?
What activities of who? Who is making the claims of a "set-up"? Where is any evidence of such a "set-up"? The Judge found no evidence to suggest that the surveillance he was warned against had any connection with Woman E or the News of the World.

That's the thing with this "set-up" theory. Much is made of it, largely because it can be seen to earn Max some sympathy (as victim of a "set-up"). It also assumes Max has "enemies" within F1, and those "enemies" would have chosen this particular route to discredit him. That in itself then enables Max to argue (as he did) there are those who want to destroy F1 and that only he can "save" it. Fairly compelling.

Despite all of that Max says "it is probably a subject I better draw a veil over." Why?

[ioan]

What activities of who? Who is making the claims of a "set-up"? Where is any evidence of such a "set-up"? The Judge found no evidence to suggest that the surveillance he was warned against had any connection with Woman E or the News of the World.

That's the thing with this "set-up" theory. Much is made of it, largely because it can be seen to earn Max some sympathy (as victim of a "set-up"). It also assumes Max has "enemies" within F1, and those "enemies" would have chosen this particular route to discredit him. That in itself then enables Max to argue (as he did) there are those who want to destroy F1 and that only he can "save" it. Fairly compelling.

Despite all of that Max says "it is probably a subject I better draw a veil over." Why?


1. You were fast to throw stones at Max, because you said McLaren were not at fault. You were proved wronged.
2. You were fast to throw stones at Max because the Nazi claims, and those were proved wrong too.

You are at it again, never learn from your mistakes. Why don't you simply wait and see what happens?
Do you hate him so much that you can't just wait what is the outcome before jumping to his throat?

[Knock-on]

Can you please provide the evidence that Max was asked not to attend some events on the basis that it was his sex-life, and not the 'Nazi' claim, that was the problem?

If not, then you are the one being simplistic.

Are you sure you're not Jackie Stewart?

I didn't make the differentiation.

However, if you believe that I'm being simplistic, can you point out examples where those that have shunned Max over this debarcle have retracted their stance and apologised?

We shall see ;)

[PolePosition_1]

Max is being a little simplistic here.

People DO care about what goes on behind closed doors otherwise he would have told his family he likes having orgies where prostitutes dress as German Guards and order him around in German while claiming they are of Aryan race.

The fact Max does not subscribe to this opinion is up to Max but he cannot dictate how others should consider his actions.

What is even more disturbing is his statement that people who find his behaviour depraved are not worth talking to. As has been seen, quite a few high profile people and country rulers find his actions abhorrent and Max is further alienating them with such statements.

Hardly diplomatic and the w-o-r-d-s of the President of the FIA!

To be fair, it shouldn't be his problem if people have trouble with what he gets up to in his private life.

So I can see where he is coming from. Though I agree the wording of his interview isn't ideal.

[PolePosition_1]

What activities of who? Who is making the claims of a "set-up"? Where is any evidence of such a "set-up"? The Judge found no evidence to suggest that the surveillance he was warned against had any connection with Woman E or the News of the World.

That's the thing with this "set-up" theory. Much is made of it, largely because it can be seen to earn Max some sympathy (as victim of a "set-up"). It also assumes Max has "enemies" within F1, and those "enemies" would have chosen this particular route to discredit him. That in itself then enables Max to argue (as he did) there are those who want to destroy F1 and that only he can "save" it. Fairly compelling.

Despite all of that Max says "it is probably a subject I better draw a veil over." Why?

Well fact that Bernie and someone else (a Lord forgot his name) warned him before hand - would suggest he was set up.

[Knock-on]

To be fair, it shouldn't be his problem if people have trouble with what he gets up to in his private life.

So I can see where he is coming from. Though I agree the wording of his interview isn't ideal.


It shouldn't be a problem but in reality it is for some people.

Now, if I choose to bash one out over a pair of old women's shoes I bought from Oxfam*, it's nobodies business but my own. However, I wouldn't want it to become public as it would ruin my credibility in the Business I work in.

Max's credibility has been severely damaged in this instance and by making inflammatory remarks like these, he is hardly making steps to resolve this issue.

( * For the purposes of this example, the name of the Charity shop has been changed to protect the identity of the real one I buy my Ladies shoes from :D )

[PolePosition_1]

It shouldn't be a problem but in reality it is for some people.

Now, if I choose to bash one out over a pair of old women's shoes I bought from Oxfam*, it's nobodies business but my own. However, I wouldn't want it to become public as it would ruin my credibility in the Business I work in.

Max's credibility has been severely damaged in this instance and by making inflammatory remarks like these, he is hardly making steps to resolve this issue.

( * For the purposes of this example, the name of the Charity shop has been changed to protect the identity of the real one I buy my Ladies shoes from :D )


Yeah I agree it may cause discomfort for some people. But why should he step down? Its not his fault his privacy was invaded.

I agree its naive of him IF he believes this should not have any impact on his job at all.

But if you read the full transcript on ITV-F1.com of an interview, he does respond to this, and acknowledges people may think of this incident - but in more of a funny matter than serious - which I think is true.

At end of day, he won vote of confidence by a huge margin, and though some may be against him still - majority still want him.

So in many respects, his position hasn't changed. His enemies will dislike him because of this rather than his ideas. Though I feel majority of Anti-Max's are using this as an excuse to dislike him, and in reality dislike him for other reasons.

[Knock-on]

Yeah I agree it may cause discomfort for some people. But why should he step down? Its not his fault his privacy was invaded.

It isn't his fault. I agree that his privacy was invaded wrongly but it has happened. We cannot turn back the clock but deal with the here and now.

Should he have to step down because of this? No.

Should he step down because of this? I think he should because he has been compromised and his credibility is as a joke rather than a statesman.


I agree its naive of him IF he believes this should not have any impact on his job at all.

Not just naive but a serious error of judgement.


But if you read the full transcript on ITV-F1.com of an interview, he does respond to this, and acknowledges people may think of this incident - but in more of a funny matter than serious - which I think is true.

Possibly, but what good can the FIA do with their prescient being seen as an object of humour?[/quote]


At end of day, he won vote of confidence by a huge margin, and though some may be against him still - majority still want him.

This is where I disagree with you. You are correct that he won the vote because of the way he has structured the FIA. The members that control the vast majority of motoring public want him out and he effectively bought the vote against them. I find it incredible that these groups have put up with this?


So in many respects, his position hasn't changed. His enemies will dislike him because of this rather than his ideas. Though I feel majority of Anti-Max's are using this as an excuse to dislike him, and in reality dislike him for other reasons.

This is true.

I want Max out because of the damage he has done to F1 (and other Motorsports). Ferrari fans have stuck by him because he has favoured them historically but now Ferrari themselves have decided that enough is enough, then I expect support for him will dwindle over the next 12 months from these people.

This incident is just another reason why he's unfit for his position but I agree that this incident shouldn't be a reason.... But it still is.

[ArrowsFA1]

Why don't you simply wait and see what happens?
You'll note that in my post there were a number of questions. That's because I don't believe those questions have been answered. I certainly don't know the answers to them. Do you? When/if we get answers then we may see how valid or significant the idea of a set-up was.

Until then 1) I am waiting to see what emerges, 2) Max was where he was filmed by choice so was not set-up in that sense and 3) he does have prior 'form' form making a lot of noise about something i.e. the Brundle court case and OTT F1 proposals, only for it to disappear off the radar after it has served it's purpose.

Well fact that Bernie and someone else (a Lord forgot his name) warned him before hand - would suggest he was set up.
Possibly, or was under surveillance, but the Judge found no evidence of that surveillance related to Max's private life being exposed by the NOTW.

[PolePosition_1]

It isn't his fault. I agree that his privacy was invaded wrongly but it has happened. We cannot turn back the clock but deal with the here and now.

Should he have to step down because of this? No.

Should he step down because of this? I think he should because he has been compromised and his credibility is as a joke rather than a statesman.



Not just naive but a serious error of judgement.



Possibly, but what good can the FIA do with their prescient being seen as an object of humour?



This is where I disagree with you. You are correct that he won the vote because of the way he has structured the FIA. The members that control the vast majority of motoring public want him out and he effectively bought the vote against them. I find it incredible that these groups have put up with this?



This is true.

I want Max out because of the damage he has done to F1 (and other Motorsports). Ferrari fans have stuck by him because he has favoured them historically but now Ferrari themselves have decided that enough is enough, then I expect support for him will dwindle over the next 12 months from these people.

This incident is just another reason why he's unfit for his position but I agree that this incident shouldn't be a reason.... But it still is.[/QUOTE]


------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------

Before I start - good post :) . We disagree but its nice to see the other side of the argument put across maturely :) .

I'll answer each point in turn from my point of view:

a) Its happened, its too late as you say. But I don't think he should quit for that, simply because its not his doing. You shouldn't punsih someone for being a victim - your just giving more power to the tabloid media - which has to much already in my opinion.

b) I don't think his credibility is too affected - I can see your point of view of why he would be. But I think the high level he works at, people will have a joke about it, but don't think it would affect his capabilities to do his job compared to before his incident. Even Max has made a few joking remarks about the issue (found at ITV-F1 Q&A) - and I think thats the nature it will appear when he does his job.

c) Agreed, he won the vote through all nations having equal power when it came to voting which is why he won. Which in a way is good, as it gives a better global representation (i.e taking into account lots of different cultures, rather than just 1 or 2). So in that respect, it gives a better overview of global opinion, not just i.e the American view.

But even with that said, I think majority of members were against the Nazi connections. Now this has been squashed - I'd be suprised if many still wish for him to resign. I haven't actually seen any news regarding the members who wanted him out since the hearing. Does anyone have news on this?

d) I personally not a fan of Max, though would say his overall performance is above satisfactory purely for his work on safety. That said - if Jean Todt is his repacement, I would like him to stay.

Interesting take......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/apr/03/comment.sport

"I don't doubt Cole has personal flaws, as have Mosley, Richards and Jewell, but the next time you feel tempted to snigger at their personal discomfort it might be worth remembering their role is not to serve as the nation's moral compass but to provide the sporting diversions that make life for the rest of us bearable"

[markabilly]

What a joke--you guys are still at it :rotflmao:

Only a few seem to get the concept that just cause it ain't illegal, it does not make it right.

That when you must look to a sadistic old man for the excercise of justice and fair play, a man who likes to play dress up, and flog and be flogged until his butt bleeds, in fun and games where people are labelled "brunette" (when all that is a German word or slang for black people and we all know it), "Aryan" (but of course, a term that has absolutely no Nazi connotation whatsoever :monkeedan ), indeed, not even the "seig heil" that rang out at his parties has no Nazi connotation whatsoever...........what a sick joke!!!

When you expect honesty from someone who admitted under oath to decieving his wife and children for forty years, what a sick joke.

So much for credibility

And speaking of hypocrisy, where are all you when Max starts degrading women, and through the use of the labells of "Schwarez" when domionanting two of the women.....

Illegal?? this judge Eady (who don't think the hookers were hookers, merely young women (paragragh #121)) but who does, in fact, note that the spanking is, in fact, a crime, but since it does not get prosecuted enough for his taste, then it is not enough illegal behavior to justify the intrusion....(pp.112 to 119)

and the brothel would be a brothel that max was keeping, if more than one man went there visiting..or so da judge do say.........and in paragrapgh 151, da judge notes the theater in or near Euston station but conviently ignores the unchallegned testiomny from one of the hookers about max 's financial investment in the show where 30 men pay to have sex with ten women on a stage...sounds like a well reasoned opinion of an old fool of a judge, out to take care of one of his own...... :s mokin:

But oh yeah, since it was not really that illegal according to the judge, ole maX be vindicated

Drink up mates :beer: and lay on McDuff, and damned be he who first cries, hold, enough

[Tazio]

Interesting take......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/apr/03/comment.sport

"I don't doubt Cole has personal flaws, as have Mosley, Richards and Jewell, but the next time you feel tempted to snigger at their personal discomfort it might be worth remembering their role is not to serve as the nation's moral compass but to provide the sporting diversions that make life for the rest of us bearable"


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/apr/03/comment.sport
A sensible editorial.
Well done.
Cheers,
Tamb' ;)

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/apr/03/comment.sport
A sensible editorial.
Well done.
Cheers,
Tamb' ;) Go to bed. :o

[ShiftingGears]

What a joke--you guys are still at it :rotflmao:
The fact that you are still attacking him over happenings of his private life instead of the hypocrisies obviously apparent in his decisions concerning FIA policies is a joke.


Only a few seem to get the concept that just cause it ain't illegal, it does not make it right.

Right and wrong is a matter of personal judgement.

And in my personal opinion (and it seems, one shared by many on this board) is that what Max does in his spare, private time is infinitely more harmless than a gross invasion of privacy without any other justification than a search for sensationalist headlines.

[ArrowsFA1]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/apr/03/comment.sport
A sensible editorial.
The writer makes quite a good case. Part of the job of the likes of Paul Jewel, Ashley Cole and Micah Richards is to provide the sporting diversions that make life for the rest of us bearable, just as the likes of Christian Horner, Heikki Kovalianen and Timo Glock do for F1.

[markabilly]

The writer makes quite a good case. Part of the job of the likes of Paul Jewel, Ashley Cole and Micah Richards is to provide the sporting diversions that make life for the rest of us bearable, just as the likes of Christian Horner, Heikki Kovalianen and Timo Glock do for F1.

....and to serve as role models for the rest of us in terms of honesty, fair play and justice, where good triumphs and evil perishes, especially for youngsters who dream to walk those shoes....

[ioan]

What a joke--you guys are still at it :rotflmao:

Only a few seem to get the concept that just cause it ain't illegal, it does not make it right.

That when you must look to a sadistic old man for the excercise of justice and fair play, a man who likes to play dress up, and flog and be flogged until his butt bleeds, in fun and games where people are labelled "brunette" (when all that is a German word or slang for black people and we all know it), "Aryan" (but of course, a term that has absolutely no Nazi connotation whatsoever :monkeedan ), indeed, not even the "seig heil" that rang out at his parties has no Nazi connotation whatsoever...........what a sick joke!!!

When you expect honesty from someone who admitted under oath to decieving his wife and children for forty years, what a sick joke.

So much for credibility

And speaking of hypocrisy, where are all you when Max starts degrading women, and through the use of the labells of "Schwarez" when domionanting two of the women.....

Illegal?? this judge Eady (who don't think the hookers were hookers, merely young women (paragragh #121)) but who does, in fact, note that the spanking is, in fact, a crime, but since it does not get prosecuted enough for his taste, then it is not enough illegal behavior to justify the intrusion....(pp.112 to 119)

and the brothel would be a brothel that max was keeping, if more than one man went there visiting..or so da judge do say.........and in paragrapgh 151, da judge notes the theater in or near Euston station but conviently ignores the unchallegned testiomny from one of the hookers about max 's financial investment in the show where 30 men pay to have sex with ten women on a stage...sounds like a well reasoned opinion of an old fool of a judge, out to take care of one of his own...... :s mokin:

But oh yeah, since it was not really that illegal according to the judge, ole maX be vindicated

Drink up mates :beer: and lay on McDuff, and damned be he who first cries, hold, enough

So the "Thread for the sensible 7" turned into "The thread where the 1001 hater can vent their frustrations"!
What a "surprise", not! :rolleyes:

[Dave B]

Ioan, if you'd like to see threads where the content is strictly controlled you are pefectly free to start your own forum and moderate it as you see fit. Fortunately here discussion is positively encouraged.

[markabilly]

Right and wrong is a matter of personal judgement.

And in my personal opinion (and it seems, one shared by many on this board) is that what Max does in his spare, private time is infinitely more harmless than a gross invasion of privacy without any other justification than a search for sensationalist headlines.
Unlike some (or many) I never viewed the NOTW garbage except once for about five seconds when the story first broke and saw that it was garbage, and it remains garbage.

All my info comes from maX pursuing these claims, sitting in open court, all pompous and arrogant, talking about his forty year "hobby" and so on......that was his volunteering the info, a choice he made when he decided to pursue litigation, his denial that there was anything wrong or illegal about such escapades. And since he made his own bed when he went to court and continues to go to court, then he should sleep in it alone or with his hookers.

And so you say: "The fact that you are still attacking him over happenings of his private life instead of the hypocrisies obviously apparent in his decisions concerning FIA policies is a joke." As noted by some others (but nobody around here) the personal life illustrates the professional life quite well. A person who breaks his vows to his own family, who lies steals and cheats on them (admissions from his own testimony under oath), is NOT someone to be trusted professionally--it is the hypocrisies of his personal life that now give credence to the argument and evidence of "hypocrisies obviously apparent in his decisions concerning FIA policies". For example, maX' comments: "My wife and I had been married for 48 years and together for more than 50 years . . . We met as teenagers and she never knew of this aspect of my life so that headline in the newspaper was completely totally devastating for her and there is nothing I can say that could ever repair that.”--well he could have started with "please forgive me for being a liar and a cheat....".but since the authoritarian sadist does not admit to wrongdoing, that would be out of the question...

Or perhaps you mean this which would be consistent with his maX's personal life that he has come forward to so graciously give us in court;

The BBC TV Panorama programme had been very critical of the 15-year commercial rights deal Mosley had done with Ecclestone. When it interviewed Mosley for the programme, the FIA president was very surprised by the interviewer, Mark Killick’s knowledge of the secret agreements. In a famous exchange on television, Killick asked Mosley whether he was “trying to defend the indefensible”. Quick as a flash Mosley told him “quite the reverse, you’re attacking the unattackable”.
After the programme aired, Mosley told Terry Lovell: “I wanted to sue, but Bernie said it wasn’t worth it.” For whatever reasons Mosley didn’t sue. In reality he couldn’t take the chance of all these secret agreements being brought out into the open.
All in all the FIA lost US$1.7 billion from 1992 to 2007. One observer says: “Only a halfwit with no financial knowledge would have signed those three deals. They handed Ecclestone and McNally nearly US$2 billion of the FIA’s cash."
Mosley was never open and truthful about any of these deals and had it not been for the BBC journalists from Panorama they would never have become publicly known.
Despite all this largesse towards Ecclestone, Mosley was re-elected with ease in the FIA presidency elections of 1997, 2001 and 2005.
His re-election gave him confidence to push the boundaries of proprietary

http://www.sportspromedia.com/mosley.htm



"Right or wrong is a matter of personal judgement" oh really? And why do we have laws, and we do we have standards that would require people to be treated equally and be intolerant towards racism (You do remember max wanting the FIA to play a lead role in the war race against racism, all the while he was playing games where the Schwarze get dominanted.....)

So let us turn to the law as outlined by the judge--where he says well, spanking to the extent as noted by MaX's own testimony is technically illegal, but no one gets prosecuted often enough to make it a big enough crime for me....and since the hooker says she really did not mean Schwarze to be a race term, only a hair color term, the same as Aryan, the old judge believes her, after all, she is hooker-an honorable woman, indeed they are all honorable hookers.....and a brothel is not a brothel when only visited by maX notwithstanding the testimony as to the other women servicing one another as it was all fun....or the undeniable fact that sadistic abuse of women (be it based on hair color or skin color :rolleyes: ) indicates far greater problems.

No, now we have maX himself sprewing forth in more trials than ever...

[ioan]

Ioan, if you'd like to see threads where the content is strictly controlled you are pefectly free to start your own forum and moderate it as you see fit. Fortunately here discussion is positively encouraged.

Does it look to you like a discussion?!

[markabilly]

"Had I wanted a Nazi scene, I would have said I wanted one and A would have got some of the inexpensive Nazi stuff from the joke shop that provides uniforms and would not have gone to Marks and Spencer and got quite expensive jackets." - Max

and for maX's fans, all that matters.......

[Tazio]

The writer makes quite a good case. Part of the job of the likes of Paul Jewel, Ashley Cole and Micah Richards is to provide the sporting diversions that make life for the rest of us bearable, just as the likes of Christian Horner, Heikki Kovalianen and Timo Glock do for F1. :up:

[PSfan]

Ioan, if you'd like to see threads where the content is strictly controlled you are pefectly free to start your own forum and moderate it as you see fit. Fortunately here discussion is positively encouraged.

Shame on you Dave, you've been here long enough to have seen threads where "opposition" is frowned upon, need I remind you we had a Ferrari supporters thread, and a thread for only Mark Webber fans, just to name 2 off the top of my head.

[ioan]

We also got a thread about Max's recent adventures, that was rightly closed by pino, still the haters jumped on the first possibility to continue the bashing, even though they were clearly not welcome in the thread.

[Knock-on]

We also got a thread about Max's recent adventures, that was rightly closed by pino, still the haters jumped on the first possibility to continue the bashing, even though they were clearly not welcome in the thread.

Sorry, last time I checked this was an open forum.

If you are looking for something more restrictive where you can control who has access, can I suggest you follow Dave's advice.

Lastly, please stop using such terms as "hater" as it sounds so immature. The fact that some don't like what Max has done at the FIA does not make us "hate" him the same as you approving of his actions does not make you a "Max Lover".

Bit of civility, oui?

[PolePosition_1]

What a joke--you guys are still at it :rotflmao:

Only a few seem to get the concept that just cause it ain't illegal, it does not make it right.

That when you must look to a sadistic old man for the excercise of justice and fair play, a man who likes to play dress up, and flog and be flogged until his butt bleeds, in fun and games where people are labelled "brunette" (when all that is a German word or slang for black people and we all know it), "Aryan" (but of course, a term that has absolutely no Nazi connotation whatsoever :monkeedan ), indeed, not even the "seig heil" that rang out at his parties has no Nazi connotation whatsoever...........what a sick joke!!!

When you expect honesty from someone who admitted under oath to decieving his wife and children for forty years, what a sick joke.

So much for credibility

And speaking of hypocrisy, where are all you when Max starts degrading women, and through the use of the labells of "Schwarez" when domionanting two of the women.....

Illegal?? this judge Eady (who don't think the hookers were hookers, merely young women (paragragh #121)) but who does, in fact, note that the spanking is, in fact, a crime, but since it does not get prosecuted enough for his taste, then it is not enough illegal behavior to justify the intrusion....(pp.112 to 119)

and the brothel would be a brothel that max was keeping, if more than one man went there visiting..or so da judge do say.........and in paragrapgh 151, da judge notes the theater in or near Euston station but conviently ignores the unchallegned testiomny from one of the hookers about max 's financial investment in the show where 30 men pay to have sex with ten women on a stage...sounds like a well reasoned opinion of an old fool of a judge, out to take care of one of his own...... :s mokin:

But oh yeah, since it was not really that illegal according to the judge, ole maX be vindicated

Drink up mates :beer: and lay on McDuff, and damned be he who first cries, hold, enough


I can't believe you seemly think that your opinion of what is right and what is wrong shouldn't be challenged.

You are more than entitled to your opinion, but why should your opinion have more right than anothers.

If Max enjoys being spanked, so what? Its not hurting you? Where is the harm in it?

I'll admit, its not my cup of tea, but its his private life, I respect that and don't think any less of him. I don't like football, its not my cup of tea, I find it boring, but I'm not going to judge guy on this.

I've replied to your post, and you seem to have not read / ignored it. And I want to find your opinion. So I'll be lazy and just copy and paste it here.

-------------

All due respect here, but its because of comments like that that we have laws.

Laws in place to make sure people aren't judged by stereotypes and given a fair chance.

To you, what he did was wrong, despite it being legal. But what you see as wrong is totally subjective to how you view life. Personally, its not my cup of tea, but I'm not one to judge him on it. I believe what he does in his private time is up to him. As long as its in line with the law.

In other societys, its frowned upon what women are allowed to drive on public roads, in others they think its weird women have equal rights, in others they think its wrong to eat bacon.

All different parts of the world have different cultures (despite globalisation ). And people brought up in these varying cultures, in some respects with good reason, form incredibly different opinions on certain issues to culture. So for example, someone brought up in Iran, is bound to have different stereotypes to us purely on the society (which are foundations for who we are) they’re from.

And I think people who say ‘blah blah should be sacked for this and that because I think its sick and wrong’ is dangerous. And I’m glad that we have laws in place which disregard personal views as to what is right and what is wrong. They have tendency to just take black and white issues into account. And that’s important, and your post above reinforces my opinion on this matter. With all due respect, what right have you got to say what’s sick and perverted?

That’s your opinion, and your more than entitled to it, but your opinion shouldn’t have any physical or material impact on someone else’s life. Which is how it is, and why we have laws in place like they currently are.

You also mention people in his position should be above getting caught etc. But once again, with all due respect, we’re all entitled to a private life, sure people in certain positions should be more careful if what they get up to is not the ‘norm’. But he did that, he hired out an apartment etc etc just for this. That’s more than good enough for taking care in activities. But considering he had people especially after him to catch him out, whatever he does, he was going to get caught no how careful he was. And in that respect that argument doesn’t stand.

-----------------

I'd be interested to hear your opinion. Your obviously quite an intelligent person, with high standing morals. But you seem to lack an open mindedness to other cultures.

[PolePosition_1]

....and to serve as role models for the rest of us in terms of honesty, fair play and justice, where good triumphs and evil perishes, especially for youngsters who dream to walk those shoes....

He is the head of the FIA. He said if he was caught speeding, he'd have quit on the spot.

Your expecting him to quit on something totally objective. Its the equivilant of asking him to quit for getting drunk on a night out. As some people may disapprove, despite it being totally legal.

[PolePosition_1]

Unlike some (or many) I never viewed the NOTW garbage except once for about five seconds when the story first broke and saw that it was garbage, and it remains garbage.

All my info comes from maX pursuing these claims, sitting in open court, all pompous and arrogant, talking about his forty year "hobby" and so on......that was his volunteering the info, a choice he made when he decided to pursue litigation, his denial that there was anything wrong or illegal about such escapades. And since he made his own bed when he went to court and continues to go to court, then he should sleep in it alone or with his hookers.

And so you say: "The fact that you are still attacking him over happenings of his private life instead of the hypocrisies obviously apparent in his decisions concerning FIA policies is a joke." As noted by some others (but nobody around here) the personal life illustrates the professional life quite well. A person who breaks his vows to his own family, who lies steals and cheats on them (admissions from his own testimony under oath), is NOT someone to be trusted professionally--it is the hypocrisies of his personal life that now give credence to the argument and evidence of "hypocrisies obviously apparent in his decisions concerning FIA policies". For example, maX' comments: "My wife and I had been married for 48 years and together for more than 50 years . . . We met as teenagers and she never knew of this aspect of my life so that headline in the newspaper was completely totally devastating for her and there is nothing I can say that could ever repair that.”--well he could have started with "please forgive me for being a liar and a cheat....".but since the authoritarian sadist does not admit to wrongdoing, that would be out of the question...

Or perhaps you mean this which would be consistent with his maX's personal life that he has come forward to so graciously give us in court;

The BBC TV Panorama programme had been very critical of the 15-year commercial rights deal Mosley had done with Ecclestone. When it interviewed Mosley for the programme, the FIA president was very surprised by the interviewer, Mark Killick’s knowledge of the secret agreements. In a famous exchange on television, Killick asked Mosley whether he was “trying to defend the indefensible”. Quick as a flash Mosley told him “quite the reverse, you’re attacking the unattackable”.
After the programme aired, Mosley told Terry Lovell: “I wanted to sue, but Bernie said it wasn’t worth it.” For whatever reasons Mosley didn’t sue. In reality he couldn’t take the chance of all these secret agreements being brought out into the open.
All in all the FIA lost US$1.7 billion from 1992 to 2007. One observer says: “Only a halfwit with no financial knowledge would have signed those three deals. They handed Ecclestone and McNally nearly US$2 billion of the FIA’s cash."
Mosley was never open and truthful about any of these deals and had it not been for the BBC journalists from Panorama they would never have become publicly known.
Despite all this largesse towards Ecclestone, Mosley was re-elected with ease in the FIA presidency elections of 1997, 2001 and 2005.
His re-election gave him confidence to push the boundaries of proprietary

http://www.sportspromedia.com/mosley.htm



"Right or wrong is a matter of personal judgement" oh really? And why do we have laws, and we do we have standards that would require people to be treated equally and be intolerant towards racism (You do remember max wanting the FIA to play a lead role in the war race against racism, all the while he was playing games where the Schwarze get dominanted.....)

So let us turn to the law as outlined by the judge--where he says well, spanking to the extent as noted by MaX's own testimony is technically illegal, but no one gets prosecuted often enough to make it a big enough crime for me....and since the hooker says she really did not mean Schwarze to be a race term, only a hair color term, the same as Aryan, the old judge believes her, after all, she is hooker-an honorable woman, indeed they are all honorable hookers.....and a brothel is not a brothel when only visited by maX notwithstanding the testimony as to the other women servicing one another as it was all fun....or the undeniable fact that sadistic abuse of women (be it based on hair color or skin color :rolleyes: ) indicates far greater problems.

No, now we have maX himself sprewing forth in more trials than ever...


All due respect Max, but the title of the article you use for your information says it all..... "The guile of President Mosley" - its hardly a biased piece.

We have laws to stop people judging people by their personal views like yourself.

You say "judge believes her, after all, she is hooker-an honorable woman". Implying because she is a hooker, her testimony has no valuable meaning.

You go on about being treated equal, then judge a woman on her profession.

I'm sorry Mark, but I can honestly say I find your judgemental attitude to this slight disturbing.

Can I ask if your a relgious man?

[speeddurango]

Max Mosley has done a great job being the president of FIA, a lot of people would disagree, but as much as I've seen, not a lot of people from inside the business had many troubles with him really. Rather most of the opposites are just random complaints on internet forums, for instance during the last few years, the ideas FIA had come up with like run off areas did not particularly meet the taste of crashes lovers. But he's done a good job nonethelss, like I said, rarely anybody from inside of the business have a big issue with him.

But the thing is, meanwhile I'd say the nazi accusation was rather stupid, and the exposure of personal life by the tabloids were rather low, I can't stand on Max's side on this issue either, his personal life style is just a shame on him, and in the business like this, a high credibility is so important.

[Knock-on]

Max Mosley has done a great job being the president of FIA, a lot of people would disagree, but as much as I've seen, not a lot of people from inside the business had many troubles with him really. Rather most of the opposites are just random complaints on internet forums, for instance during the last few years, the ideas FIA had come up with like run off areas did not particularly meet the taste of crashes lovers. But he's done a good job nonethelss, like I said, rarely anybody from inside of the business have a big issue with him.

1. Can you give us an idea of why you think Mosley has done a good job? Are you talking about Max or the FIA?
2. There are numerous referencable examples of people having issues with Max and very few articles of support in comparison.
3. Few random complaints? I would say it was rather the other way and a few people support Max whereas the overriding majority of fans want him to leave. Just look at the polls on every site. Not just this one.
4. CRASH Lovers? Perhaps you don't appreciate what racing is all about. Keeping a car on the Island and not inventing new racing lines through the middle of what should be a gravel trap and getting away with it time, after time, after time. Remember PdlR?
5. and 6. Please refer to 1. and 2.


But the thing is, meanwhile I'd say the nazi accusation was rather stupid, and the exposure of personal life by the tabloids were rather low, I can't stand on Max's side on this issue either, his personal life style is just a shame on him, and in the business like this, a high credibility is so important.

Totally agree with everything in there. Exactly what I think :up:

1
2. There are numerous referencable examples of people having issues with Max and very few articles of support in comparison.

Very few? Maybe just after the NOTW published their now proven-to-be-fictitious allegation, but now the ones in support of Mosley outweigh the ones that don't. Other than Stewart & Stoddart, nobody has voiced anything approaching a lack of support since the verdict.

Very few? These were easy to find....

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/163711-0/berger_backs_max_against_angels.html

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20222.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/motorsport/2008/04/04/kimi-raikkonen-supports-max-mosley-115875-20372428/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/column ... chief.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/andrewbaker/2296987/Max-Mosley-has-'full-support'-of-UAE-chief.html)

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23819534-23770,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2452652/Max-Mosley-Talented-man-with-tainted-name.html

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42342

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67986

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67971

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67616


1
3. Few random complaints? I would say it was rather the other way and a few people support Max whereas the overriding majority of fans want him to leave. Just look at the polls on every site. Not just this one.


To be quite honest, the FIA Presidents job isn't to appeal to the 'fans', whatever that amorphous undefined group is. His job is to run international motorsport, not win a popularity contest amongst the great unwashed, of which I count myself as a member.

The "fans" all despised Balestre, and most were happy (maybe even ecstatic in some quarters) when he was booted out in favour of Max.

It's therefore pretty clear that the Presidency of the FIA isn't one that is going to make the incumbent Mr Popular.

Besides which, a 'popular' President could also be seen as one who it is easy to please, which a strong leader should never be.

In conclusion, it is therefore necessary for somebody in a position of authority, especially one who oversees the "Piranha Club", to be nothing short of an absolute twat if he or she is to have any positive outcome.

The statement that Mosley has been bad for F1 is valid, but so is the statement that without someone like him, with his belligerence and personality, it could well be an awful lot worse.

If anyone thinks that having somebody who wanted to be liked and who the fans and the team-owners could push around because of that would have been better for the sport, they are fooling themselves.

Yes, Mosley has made mistakes, has done things I don't particularly like and so on....but he has not been unsuccessful, not by a long way.

Oh, and it looks like the invites are starting again....

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080730161403.shtml

[Garry Walker]

I have supported Mosley since this started and it is good that justice has prevailed.

[ioan]

Your expecting him to quit on something totally objective.

Make that subjective, not objective! ;)

[PolePosition_1]

Make that subjective, not objective! ;)

Indeed, many thanks on that :) .

[Knock-on]

Very few? Maybe just after the NOTW published their now proven-to-be-fictitious allegation, but now the ones in support of Mosley outweigh the ones that don't. Other than Stewart & Stoddart, nobody has voiced anything approaching a lack of support since the verdict.

Very few? These were easy to find....

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/163711-0/berger_backs_max_against_angels.html

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20222.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/motorsport/2008/04/04/kimi-raikkonen-supports-max-mosley-115875-20372428/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/column ... chief.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/andrewbaker/2296987/Max-Mosley-has-'full-support'-of-UAE-chief.html)

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23819534-23770,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2452652/Max-Mosley-Talented-man-with-tainted-name.html

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42342

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67986

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67971

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67616



I read the first line of the first URL you posted and didn't need to read any further.


Gerhard Berger has become one of the few Formula One individuals to speak openly about the ongoing Max Mosley sex scandal saga, and came out in support of the under-fire FIA president on the eve of the Monaco Grand Prix.


I believe I posted this:


There are numerous referencable examples of people having issues with Max and very few articles of support in comparison.

Thank you very much for spending the time to back up my point. :D




To be quite honest, the FIA Presidents job isn't to appeal to the 'fans', whatever that amorphous undefined group is. His job is to run international motorsport, not win a popularity contest amongst the great unwashed, of which I count myself as a member.

The "fans" all despised Balestre, and most were happy (maybe even ecstatic in some quarters) when he was booted out in favour of Max.

It's therefore pretty clear that the Presidency of the FIA isn't one that is going to make the incumbent Mr Popular.

Besides which, a 'popular' President could also be seen as one who it is easy to please, which a strong leader should never be.

In conclusion, it is therefore necessary for somebody in a position of authority, especially one who oversees the "Piranha Club", to be nothing short of an absolute twat if he or she is to have any positive outcome.

The statement that Mosley has been bad for F1 is valid, but so is the statement that without someone like him, with his belligerence and personality, it could well be an awful lot worse.

If anyone thinks that having somebody who wanted to be liked and who the fans and the team-owners could push around because of that would have been better for the sport, they are fooling themselves.

Yes, Mosley has made mistakes, has done things I don't particularly like and so on....but he has not been unsuccessful, not by a long way.

I'm sorry, I cannot accept the arguement that because he makes mistakes, is belligerant and is bad for F1 means he is the right person to head the FIA.

I would like someone that is honest, positive for motorsport and represents the members effectivly.

[PolePosition_1]

Knock On - the man has not lied, has made F1 incredibly safe in his time in office and general health and safety issues.

And today he is progressing with his green campaign, making F1 relevant to road issues.

And more importantly, he is representing the members effectively, and they seem to like him, he won the vote of confidence by a mile. Showing GLOBAL support for him.

[ArrowsFA1]

the man...has made F1 incredibly safe in his time in office and general health and safety issues.
This is something that is frequently credited to Max, and yet JYS, with the help of the likes of Louis Stanley, began the process of improving safety in the sport against which there was a great deal of opposition at the time. Then, in the late 70's Max was not in office when Bernie Ecclestone brought Prof Sid Watkins into F1 and the Prof has done more than anyone to improve medical care and facilities. Also, the introduction of new materials such as carbon fibre did much to make the cars themselves stronger and safer.

Max's major contribution to safety was in the immediate aftermath of Ayrton Senna's death when the sport needed to be seen to act to prevent such a tragedy happening again. Cars and circuits were changed as a result.

Obviously, just as it is unfair (IMHO) to single out Max's contribution to F1 safety, it is equally unfair to over-emphasise the contribution of others. As with many things, a combination of people and events have brought us the the safe cars we have today.

[Knock-on]

Knock On - the man has not lied, has made F1 incredibly safe in his time in office and general health and safety issues.

And today he is progressing with his green campaign, making F1 relevant to road issues.

And more importantly, he is representing the members effectively, and they seem to like him, he won the vote of confidence by a mile. Showing GLOBAL support for him.

Lied? Lied to who?

F1 is a lot safer now. That I cannot deny. In fact, there have been quite a few successes since Max has been in office.

With his proposed green issues I have no problem as long as it isn't at the detriment to the racing.

I have also many times said that he is entitled to a personal life and should not resign because of the Newspaper article.

I also agree that he has global support within the FIA.

So, why do I think Max is bad for F1 and should go?

He does not have proportional representation from the FIA members. It's a farce and the members that represent the vast majority of motoring members are against him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIA_member_organisations

Look at most of them. They're 2 bit countries that have no relevance to motorsport but as much power within the FIA as Germany, France, UK and America.

Does that make sense?

My other reasons for wanting Max to leave have been documented many times and no need to repeat them :D

[ioan]

Knock On - the man has not lied, has made F1 incredibly safe in his time in office and general health and safety issues.

And today he is progressing with his green campaign, making F1 relevant to road issues.

And more importantly, he is representing the members effectively, and they seem to like him, he won the vote of confidence by a mile. Showing GLOBAL support for him.

Right! :up:

However you will see that this means nothing in the way of bias and hatred some people have against Max, and all this because he dared to hit the cheaters last season. It's like some of the forum members had to pay the bill instead of McLaren and Mercedes. :confused:

[ioan]

This is something that is frequently credited to Max, and yet JYS, with the help of the likes of Louis Stanley, began the process of improving safety in the sport against which there was a great deal of opposition at the time. Then, in the late 70's Max was not in office when Bernie Ecclestone brought Prof Sid Watkins into F1 and the Prof has done more than anyone to improve medical care and facilities. Also, the introduction of new materials such as carbon fibre did much to make the cars themselves stronger and safer.

You see, we are talking about the period when Max was president of the FIA, not what happened before that! :rolleyes:

[PolePosition_1]

This is something that is frequently credited to Max, and yet JYS, with the help of the likes of Louis Stanley, began the process of improving safety in the sport against which there was a great deal of opposition at the time. Then, in the late 70's Max was not in office when Bernie Ecclestone brought Prof Sid Watkins into F1 and the Prof has done more than anyone to improve medical care and facilities. Also, the introduction of new materials such as carbon fibre did much to make the cars themselves stronger and safer.

Max's major contribution to safety was in the immediate aftermath of Ayrton Senna's death when the sport needed to be seen to act to prevent such a tragedy happening again. Cars and circuits were changed as a result.

Obviously, just as it is unfair (IMHO) to single out Max's contribution to F1 safety, it is equally unfair to over-emphasise the contribution of others. As with many things, a combination of people and events have brought us the the safe cars we have today.

Agreed, I don't think anyone is trying to say Max single handedly made F1 as safe a sit is today.

But his contribution has to be acknowledged. And when people talk of how bad he has been to F1 etc etc, people are bound to point out his role in improving safety.

[ioan]

I have also many times said that he is entitled to a personal life and should not resign because of the Newspaper article.

What?

And all the posts about how his personal life makes him not fit to be head of the FIA, and how this is hurting the sport and so on, who posted all that?! :rolleyes:

[Knock-on]

What?

And all the posts about how his personal life makes him not fit to be head of the FIA, and how this is hurting the sport and so on, who posted all that?! :rolleyes:

Whay is this so difficult to understand.

He shouldn't have to resign because of what he does behind closed doors.

However, the very fact that it has come out has been damaging for the FIA and F1 and he should resign for the benefit of both.

It's a bit like me saying that you don't have to retract your claim that I'm a Massa hater as you refuse to provide any evidence but it would be the right thing to retract your lie because it's the right thing to do :)

See the difference? ;)

[PolePosition_1]

Lied? Lied to who?

F1 is a lot safer now. That I cannot deny. In fact, there have been quite a few successes since Max has been in office.

With his proposed green issues I have no problem as long as it isn't at the detriment to the racing.

I have also many times said that he is entitled to a personal life and should not resign because of the Newspaper article.

I also agree that he has global support within the FIA.

So, why do I think Max is bad for F1 and should go?

He does not have proportional representation from the FIA members. It's a farce and the members that represent the vast majority of motoring members are against him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIA_member_organisations

Look at most of them. They're 2 bit countries that have no relevance to motorsport but as much power within the FIA as Germany, France, UK and America.

Does that make sense?

My other reasons for wanting Max to leave have been documented many times and no need to repeat them :D


You said you wanted someone honest.....presumably implying Max had lied?

I'm not against proportional representation, but I am against it in this case.

As presumably you'd want it carried out, where every member of the members (e.g. AAA has 6 million odd members), therefore a lot more power than a smaller nation.

But I think thats a terrible idea. It would for me defeat the object of equality.

Say we had this as a political structure, where London has 6 million people, and Wales only 3 million, despite Wales being so much bigger than London.

With a democratic system, the leaders would fight to win, to do this they'd have to appeal to the areas with more people, and in effect totally abandoning the areas with low political voting power, creating huge inequality.

And the same applies to the FIA. Just because the AAA has so many more people, it definately shouldn't have more voting power, because it doesn't represent global opinion proportionally (ironic in a sense).

Everyone should have an equal say.

And I think democracy agrees with this, look in America, each state has equal rights when electing a president ( Al Gore had more votes than Bush, but Bush still won), and in UK even, we have different areas all representing same amount in elections.

[ArrowsFA1]

You see, we are talking about the period when Max was president of the FIA, not what happened before that! :rolleyes:
ioan, PolePosition_1 made the point that Max has made F1 incredibly safe in his time in office. I didn't and I don't deny that the sport has made enormous strides in that area during his time in office. However, and the point I was making was, concern and action over F1 safety did not begin with the current FIA President.

A number of people - JYS, Louis Stanley, Bernie Ecclestone, Prof Watkins - have been very influential in this area - and their contributions should be acknowledged.

I'm sorry, I cannot accept the arguement that because he makes mistakes, is belligerant and is bad for F1 means he is the right person to head the FIA.

I would like someone that is honest, positive for motorsport and represents the members effectivly.

I see, you want somebody who will never make mistakes, will always be positive (presumably at the expense of making the right decision, which is not always the same thing) and will represent every member effectively, thereby logically neutering his ability to make any tough decisions.

And I'm sorry that you are wanting a saint to be the head of the organisation, because you'll be in for a long wait.

Given that you are wishing to see somebody with no faults and no chance of ever making a mistake, please, pray tell, who would you recommend for the position, bearing in mind that Francis of Assisi is unavailable due to him being dead?

[ShiftingGears]

Right! :up:

However you will see that this means nothing in the way of bias and hatred some people have against Max, and all this because he dared to hit the cheaters last season. It's like some of the forum members had to pay the bill instead of McLaren and Mercedes. :confused:

Don't make sweeping generalisations.


Many here disliked Mosely and the nature of his hypocritical decisions concerning F1 before that scandal broke out.

So don't act as if anyone who disagrees with your opinion of Mosely does so because they support your least favourite team.

[Knock-on]

You said you wanted someone honest.....presumably implying Max had lied?

I'm not against proportional representation, but I am against it in this case.

As presumably you'd want it carried out, where every member of the members (e.g. AAA has 6 million odd members), therefore a lot more power than a smaller nation.

But I think thats a terrible idea. It would for me defeat the object of equality.

Say we had this as a political structure, where London has 6 million people, and Wales only 3 million, despite Wales being so much bigger than London.

With a democratic system, the leaders would fight to win, to do this they'd have to appeal to the areas with more people, and in effect totally abandoning the areas with low political voting power, creating huge inequality.

And the same applies to the FIA. Just because the AAA has so many more people, it definately shouldn't have more voting power, because it doesn't represent global opinion proportionally (ironic in a sense).

Everyone should have an equal say.

And I think democracy agrees with this, look in America, each state has equal rights when electing a president ( Al Gore had more votes than Bush, but Bush still won), and in UK even, we have different areas all representing same amount in elections.

I see your point of view but don't agree with it as I feel the FIA should ultimatly reflect the majority of it's clients i.e. the motoring public.

However, what you say makes sense as well. :up:

[Knock-on]

I see, you want somebody who will never make mistakes, will always be positive (presumably at the expense of making the right decision, which is not always the same thing) and will represent every member effectively, thereby logically neutering his ability to make any tough decisions.

And I'm sorry that you are wanting a saint to be the head of the organisation, because you'll be in for a long wait.

Given that you are wishing to see somebody with no faults and no chance of ever making a mistake, please, pray tell, who would you recommend for the position, bearing in mind that Francis of Assisi is unavailable due to him being dead?

Tamburello

OK, I maybe being flippant in reply to your post but I think you've outdone me with this post :laugh:

OK, just one reason why Max should have been sacked, not had the option to resign is the gifting of F1 rights to Ecclestone.

Pole position asked me why I consider Max to be dishonest and to have lied is encapsulated in this one event.

Max gave his friend the rights to F1 for a 10th of their worth and didn't go out to tender under European law as he should have.

He then received a personal payment of $300M (in the days when the $$$ was worth something) from Bernie and moved to Monaco saying his emigration was because he would be open to prosecution as President of the FIA under EU rules if a driver was killed and not to avoid paying capital gains tax.

So, we have the payment (some may say bribe) and the lies.

This is just 1 example and I haven't touched on the second deal he struck with a French media company that effectively squanders away the money the FIA gets from F1 to a 10th of it's worth.

Basically, Max has ensured that the FIA receives 1% of the true worth of F1. F**k me, he makes Gordon Brown and Enron look good!

Tamburello

OK, I maybe being flippant in reply to your post but I think you've outdone me with this post :laugh:

OK, just one reason why Max should have been sacked, not had the option to resign is the gifting of F1 rights to Ecclestone.

Pole position asked me why I consider Max to be dishonest and to have lied is encapsulated in this one event.

Max gave his friend the rights to F1 for a 10th of their worth and didn't go out to tender under European law as he should have.

He then received a personal payment of $300M (in the days when the $$$ was worth something) from Bernie and moved to Monaco saying his emigration was because he would be open to prosecution as President of the FIA under EU rules if a driver was killed and not to avoid paying capital gains tax.

So, we have the payment (some may say bribe) and the lies.

This is just 1 example and I haven't touched on the second deal he struck with a French media company that effectively squanders away the money the FIA gets from F1 to a 10th of it's worth.

Basically, Max has ensured that the FIA receives 1% of the true worth of F1. F**k me, he makes Gordon Brown and Enron look good!

So who is the Saint you have in mind to replace him?

[Knock-on]

So who is the Saint you have in mind to replace him?

Do you know what. I haven't a clue who would be the correct replacement.

I'm not too sure it should be someone in F1 either.

My personal view is that it should be a paid role with someone in charge that is accountable.

I also feel the FIA should be more open and transparent as it's like the sodding Masons at the moment. Too many secret deals, wheeling and dealing.

Do you know what. I haven't a clue who would be the correct replacement.

I'm not too sure it should be someone in F1 either.

My personal view is that it should be a paid role with someone in charge that is accountable.

I also feel the FIA should be more open and transparent as it's like the sodding Masons at the moment. Too many secret deals, wheeling and dealing.

I agree that it should be a paid role, since the post would not appeal to many candidates as it stands at the moment.

But the current head of the FIA is accountable....that's what the Extraordinary General Meeting called together in June was all about.

Who else should he be accountable too? Non-members? Why should non-members have a say?

[Knock-on]

I agree that it should be a paid role, since the post would not appeal to many candidates as it stands at the moment.

But the current head of the FIA is accountable....that's what the Extraordinary General Meeting called together in June was all about.

Who else should he be accountable too? Non-members? Why should non-members have a say?

He called the EGM if you remember rightly.

As for accountability, I'm a member and I don't think there's any visibility. So are most people on here.

It's a closed boys club and we all know it.

[PolePosition_1]

Don't make sweeping generalisations.


Many here disliked Mosely and the nature of his hypocritical decisions concerning F1 before that scandal broke out.

So don't act as if anyone who disagrees with your opinion of Mosely does so because they support your least favourite team.


I'm not saying your wrong, but can you explain what you mean when you say he has been hypocritical in his decisions concerning F1?

[PolePosition_1]

I see your point of view but don't agree with it as I feel the FIA should ultimatly reflect the majority of it's clients i.e. the motoring public.

However, what you say makes sense as well. :up:


Yeah, we obviously both have similar approaches to disagreeing which is nice to see.

Though I would stress for you to think about it. Why should American motorists have more say than Japanesse motorists on a world stage?

Sure they should be taken into account, but with your idea, Japanesse motorists could easily be rail-roaded into something negative to them. And American motorists would have a larger global influence over any other.

But I appreciate you disagree.

[Bagwan]

He called the EGM if you remember rightly.

As for accountability, I'm a member and I don't think there's any visibility. So are most people on here.

It's a closed boys club and we all know it.

What would you have thought about it , had there not have been a vote ?

I'm a member , too , through the CAA .
That brings up that issue of the "closed boys club" you mentioned .

Apart from those members who watch F1 , nobody even knew about what Max was doing .
In fact , even those that do watch , from the circle of friends in which I run , few knew that the CAA membership had anything to do with the FIA at all , even though the logo is on the card .

It is from that "closed boys club" that the "sting" came .

Maybe we should just forget the whole thing , because it will definitely bring the sport into dis-repute , knowing who initiated the sting .

[ioan]

Whay is this so difficult to understand.

He shouldn't have to resign because of what he does behind closed doors.

However, the very fact that it has come out has been damaging for the FIA and F1 and he should resign for the benefit of both.

It's a bit like me saying that you don't have to retract your claim that I'm a Massa hater as you refuse to provide any evidence but it would be the right thing to retract your lie because it's the right thing to do :)

See the difference? ;)

You are contradicting yourself continuously, still you want me to try to have a reasonable discussion with you?! :laugh:

[ioan]

ioan, PolePosition_1 made the point that Max has made F1 incredibly safe in his time in office. I didn't and I don't deny that the sport has made enormous strides in that area during his time in office. However, and the point I was making was, concern and action over F1 safety did not begin with the current FIA President.

A number of people - JYS, Louis Stanley, Bernie Ecclestone, Prof Watkins - have been very influential in this area - and their contributions should be acknowledged.

But none of us was denying the contributions those people had to improving the safety of F1.
It was merely pointed out that Max did a lot too.
So why did you feel the need to bring up the others, why else than in an attempt to belittle Mosley's achievements? After all this thread isn't about JYS, BE, Prof Watkins' achievements.

[Knock-on]

Yeah, we obviously both have similar approaches to disagreeing which is nice to see.

Though I would stress for you to think about it. Why should American motorists have more say than Japanesse motorists on a world stage?

Sure they should be taken into account, but with your idea, Japanesse motorists could easily be rail-roaded into something negative to them. And American motorists would have a larger global influence over any other.

But I appreciate you disagree.

Yep, it's nice to have a reasoned debate and agree to disagree rather than the usual "Max hater, Max lover, (insert spurious claim here) and repeat ad infinitum" approach of some members :laugh:

Your point about Japanesse vs American motorists can be taken a little further.

Why should ADAC with 15,000,000 members have the same sway as Burundi, San Marino or Vatican City which they currently do.

[ArrowsFA1]

It was merely pointed out that Max did a lot too.
No, it was pointed out that that Max "has made F1 incredibly safe in his time in office". No-one else was mentioned at that point, a fact I thought worth balancing with a little history. Not, as you suggest, to belittle Max's achievements in this area, but to provide some context and highlight those who are equally deserving of credit and praise for their contribution to F1 safety.

I'm not sure why you have such a problem with that.

[Knock-on]

You are contradicting yourself continuously, still you want me to try to have a reasonable discussion with you?! :laugh:

:laugh:

I gave up trying to have a reasoned debate with you years ago.

You don't know the meaning of it :p

So, your still not going to retract your false accusations or back up your opinions with any fact? How do you live with the hypocrisy of your signature ;)

[ioan]

Why should ADAC with 15,000,000 members have the same sway as Burundi, San Marino or Vatican City which they currently do.

Because if you weigh 300 pounds you don't have twice as many votes to cast as someone weighing only 150!
Also if you earn 3000 £ a month you don't have twice as many votes as those who earn only 1500!
And just because you are British it doesn't mean you have twice as many rights as someone from San Marino! :p :

[PolePosition_1]

Yep, it's nice to have a reasoned debate and agree to disagree rather than the usual "Max hater, Max lover, (insert spurious claim here) and repeat ad infinitum" approach of some members :laugh:

Your point about Japanesse vs American motorists can be taken a little further.

Why should ADAC with 15,000,000 members have the same sway as Burundi, San Marino or Vatican City which they currently do.


I hate to say this, but I'm with Ioan on this one I'm afraid Knock On.

Q: Why should ADAC with 15,000,000 members have the same sway as Burundi, San Marino or Vatican City which they currently do?

A: To ensure equality amongst ALL motorists, not just motorists belonging to powerful bodies.

Without wishing to get too deep here, but look at the world we live in today, its a capitalist society, run by the economy. We have hugely powerful financial insitutions such as the WTO, WB, IMF etc, who basically have a stranglehold of the world economy.

America is the most economic powerful nation at the moment. They have the largest presence in these instituations.

Its no coincidence that the gap between rich nations and poor nations is getting bigger.

Because the powerful nations run the economy, why change it when they getting on well as they are? There is absolutely no incentive to provide equality outside of their areas.

He called the EGM if you remember rightly.

As for accountability, I'm a member and I don't think there's any visibility. So are most people on here.

It's a closed boys club and we all know it.

So you are, by your own admission, a member of the closed boys club.

May I respectively suggest that, if you didn't know how the club works, you either shouldn't have joined or should have already accepted, through your subscription, how the club works.

Terms & conditions.....if you signed a piece of paper confirming your membership application, then you are not the solution but part of the problem.

[Knock-on]

So you are, by your own admission, a member of the closed boys club.

May I respectively suggest that, if you didn't know how the club works, you either shouldn't have joined or should have already accepted, through your subscription, how the club works.

Terms & conditions.....if you signed a piece of paper confirming your membership application, then you are not the solution but part of the problem.

So, you're not a member of a motoring organisation?

I expect the AA to represent my best interests and to recover me when I break down.

Unfortunatly, as one person, I have no sway on detirmining how they deal with the FIA but am quite happy with what I have read in the press.

If I wanted to have a direct influence, I would have to move to the Vatican City or whatever where there is a membership of one man and his dog. Then Max would find my vote expensive to buy ;)

[PolePosition_1]

Quick update for Markability or whoever it was who was going on a moral high ground, saying Max was displaying signs of an axe murderer etc etc (along them lines) because he enjoyed S&M.

Though he has failed to reply to my last few posts, have another interesting fact for him.

In the new UK Sex Report for 2008, 1/3 of people admitted to enjoying this S&M.

Does that mean we have 20 million people who are "perverts" in this country? As you defined Max.

Or your comments such as ""The Sadistic Personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of gratuitous cruelty, aggression, and demeaning behaviors which indicate the existence of deep-seated contempt for other people and an utter lack of empathy. Some sadists are "utilitarian": they leverage their explosive violence to establish a position of unchallenged dominance within a relationship. Unlike psychopaths, they rarely use physical force in the commission of crimes. Rather, their aggressiveness is embedded in an interpersonal context and is expressed in social settings, such as the family or the workplace. "

or

"Sadists are masters of abuse by proxy and ambient abuse. They terrorize and intimidate even their nearest and dearest into doing their bidding. They create an aura and atmosphere of unmitigated yet diffuse dread and consternation. This they achieve by promulgating complex "rules of the house" that restrict the autonomy of their dependants (spouses, children, employees, patients, clients, etc.). They have the final word and are the ultimate law. They must be obeyed, no matter how arbitrary and senseless are their rulings and decisions. "

[Knock-on]

I think with this thread, we should leave sleeping Doms lie ;)

[ShiftingGears]

I'm not saying your wrong, but can you explain what you mean when you say he has been hypocritical in his decisions concerning F1?

The most obvious hypocritical decision is announcing a 2.4L V8 engine formula off the back of his talking of how he's aiming for "cost cutting" within F1. Blatantly contradictory.

[Knock-on]

The most obvious hypocritical decision is announcing a 2.4L V8 engine formula off the back of his talking of how he's aiming for "cost cutting" within F1. Blatantly contradictory.


Or KERS to aid the road car industry :laugh:

It's suggested that the cost is equilivant to about 10% of a teams budget.

[PolePosition_1]

The most obvious hypocritical decision is announcing a 2.4L V8 engine formula off the back of his talking of how he's aiming for "cost cutting" within F1. Blatantly contradictory.

Yeah but there two sides to every story.

The engines were introduced to kerb increasing speeds, as this was presumably a health and safety issue, a focal part of the FIA's role in F1.

And I think long term they are cheaper to build.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it was the right move, and that it backfired in that the move came in as Max was stressing the cost of F1.

But I can understand his reasoning behind it, and see why it was done - albeit I don't particularly agree with the move.

[PolePosition_1]

Or KERS to aid the road car industry :laugh:

It's suggested that the cost is equilivant to about 10% of a teams budget.

Thats a slightly different story.

I agree with KERS, on paper it will improve racing, it will also make F1 more relevant to road car designing.

Sure its an expensive product, but for me it can only be regarded as a positive, not only will it improve F1, and make it more relevent to road cars, but its also encouraging greener technology.

Making not only F1 more sustainable, but motor usage in genreal. What they put in with cost of producing such systems will be made back in savings of fuels in future.

Sure its a short term rise in cost, but its also a long term cost cut among its many other benefits.

[Garry Walker]

Sure its a short term rise in cost, but its also a long term cost cut among its many other benefits.
How will it cut costs in long term?

[PolePosition_1]

How will it cut costs in long term?

Because you not using fuel, your using recycled energy which is free. You pay for fuel.

Sure we're talking long long term here. But take into account how the technology will develop over the years, the cost will easily be covered over the years.

Teams will plough resources into KERS for performance advantage, which can also be passed down to road cars, cutting costs there and making cars greener.

Its a win-win situation really.

[Garry Walker]

Because you not using fuel, your using recycled energy which is free. You pay for fuel.

Sure we're talking long long term here. But take into account how the technology will develop over the years, the cost will easily be covered over the years.

Teams will plough resources into KERS for performance advantage, which can also be passed down to road cars, cutting costs there and making cars greener.

Its a win-win situation really.

We are talking cost-cutting in F1 terms.
How will KERS benefit a team like Williams for example, who has no manufacturer support?

[PolePosition_1]

We are talking cost-cutting in F1 terms.
How will KERS benefit a team like Williams for example, who has no manufacturer support?

Same as reply above.

F1 teams use fuel.

KERS uses recycled energy.

Fuel costs money.

KERS energy is free.

Then on top of that, as KERS technology develops, F1 teams will progress more and more with KERS, ultimately using less fuel, and using recycled energy.

Basically exactly as I said before.

[Garry Walker]

Same as reply above.

F1 teams use fuel.

KERS uses recycled energy.

Fuel costs money.

KERS energy is free.

Then on top of that, as KERS technology develops, F1 teams will progress more and more with KERS, ultimately using less fuel, and using recycled energy.

Basically exactly as I said before.

KERS will cost millions of dollars (probably in the range of starting from 20 million dollars), whereas F1 uses an equal amount of fuel in a year as a boeing 757 does in one trans-atlantic flight. In addition, fuel will not disappear at all and will still be the major energy source in F1.

So your point makes no sense.

[PolePosition_1]

KERS will cost millions of dollars (probably in the range of starting from 20 million dollars), whereas F1 uses an equal amount of fuel in a year as a boeing 757 does in one trans-atlantic flight. In addition, fuel will not disappear at all and will still be the major energy source in F1.

So your point makes no sense.


Yeah but your looking at this short term.

I'm looking at this long term, as I've already stated twice. So I'll start off on the very basics to make myself clear.

Technology evolves. KERS next year will be at its very early stages. But as someone already pointed out, it will cover 10% of some budgets, so obviously quite a big area.

Teams are going to want to develop this as its going to be hugely beneficial. With engine restrictions and areo restrictions, teams are going to be looking at areas to gain advantages, KERS is going to be one of these.

As this technology will evolve, it'll become more efficient, more beneficial to the teams in terms of performance.

I'm not saying it'll replace fuel if thats what you think I was implying, the energy will have to come from somewhere in the first place.

What I'm saying is that its a new area, costing a lot, but who is to say what the situation will be in 15 years time, how much willl it have developed?

Considering its a new technology, it has a full lifespan ahead of it, so going to be totally different in 15 years time. And considering its primary foundations lie on recyclable energy, its not going to be as expensive as fuel.

How much were the teams spending on engines (run by petrol) previous to the restrictions, $20m ? $30? It was a lot.

With KERS there is potential, if you make your system as efficient as possible, you'd be able to lower dependency on that, making car lighter etc etc.

So apologies if I made it sound it was going to save money next year.

When I say long term, I'm talking 10 -15 years, not 10 -15 months :)

[Garry Walker]

Yeah but your looking at this short term.

I'm looking at this long term, as I've already stated twice. So I'll start off on the very basics to make myself clear.

Technology evolves. KERS next year will be at its very early stages. But as someone already pointed out, it will cover 10% of some budgets, so obviously quite a big area.

Teams are going to want to develop this as its going to be hugely beneficial. With engine restrictions and areo restrictions, teams are going to be looking at areas to gain advantages, KERS is going to be one of these.

As this technology will evolve, it'll become more efficient, more beneficial to the teams in terms of performance.

I'm not saying it'll replace fuel if thats what you think I was implying, the energy will have to come from somewhere in the first place.

What I'm saying is that its a new area, costing a lot, but who is to say what the situation will be in 15 years time, how much willl it have developed?

Considering its a new technology, it has a full lifespan ahead of it, so going to be totally different in 15 years time. And considering its primary foundations lie on recyclable energy, its not going to be as expensive as fuel.

How much were the teams spending on engines (run by petrol) previous to the restrictions, $20m ? $30? It was a lot.

With KERS there is potential, if you make your system as efficient as possible, you'd be able to lower dependency on that, making car lighter etc etc.

So apologies if I made it sound it was going to save money next year.

When I say long term, I'm talking 10 -15 years, not 10 -15 months :)

There is no need to apologize, I understood perfectly what you meant. But the problem is that teams will still need to develop everything else as well and KERS will cost millions and millions in development.
No amount of saving they do throughout fuel saving will get anywhere near equal to that amount.

For teams such as Williams and Force India it is crazy to force it through as they will never benefit from it financially.

[PolePosition_1]

There is no need to apologize, I understood perfectly what you meant. But the problem is that teams will still need to develop everything else as well and KERS will cost millions and millions in development.
No amount of saving they do throughout fuel saving will get anywhere near equal to that amount.

For teams such as Williams and Force India it is crazy to force it through as they will never benefit from it financially.

I disagree, sure short term it won't cover the cost, no where near cover the cost.

But its going to be an area of performance improvement. So rather than teams spending milllions on developing aerodynamics, they'll spend it on KERS. Someone which willl improve racing (unlike aero improvements).

With engine restrictions and aero restrictions, teams will instead divert resources into KERS - something which is positive, its a sustainable technology, improves racing, and as it evolves, has potential to more than earn back money invested. Though it will always cost money, because F1 is a development sport.

Williams don't seem to mind, with Adam Parr Williams CEO saying “I don’t mind saying that our budget for KERS is 10 per cent of our budget for aerodynamics and composite parts, so it’s not a huge amount of money and we see it as a fantastic investment into the future of the sport.”

Also, you say "For teams such as Williams and Force India it is crazy to force it through as they will never benefit from it financially" - well, the statement above from Adam Parr shows they're a true sporting team. The do this for the love of F1, not money.

And who are you to say they won't gain a financial return? In long term (10-15 years) once the technology has grown, who is to say its returns. But then you got to look at it as another area of performance. If they do well with KERS, it'll move them up the grid and higher finishes, more financial winnings.

Do Red Bull make financial money directly from buying Ferrari engines at $15m a year? Do Force India make money from spending millions on aero improvements?

Not directly no, and for time being KERS is the same, only difference is that with KERS it has potential to cut back costs in long term, as well as making F1 relevant to other sectors of the motoring industry. Who knows, Williams (who are rumoured to be well advanced on their KERS system following a different route to majority of teams) could sell their technology on?

Are you against the introduction of KERS?

[ShiftingGears]

Yeah but there two sides to every story.

The engines were introduced to kerb increasing speeds, as this was presumably a health and safety issue, a focal part of the FIA's role in F1.

And I think long term they are cheaper to build.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it was the right move, and that it backfired in that the move came in as Max was stressing the cost of F1.

But I can understand his reasoning behind it, and see why it was done - albeit I don't particularly agree with the move.

How much do restrictor plates cost?

Using both the reasoning of cost cutting and lowering speed (neither of which have worked), Mosely and Purnell should've decided to use restrictor plates on the 3L V10. Then theres relatively no expendature on R&D, and F1 would be equally as safe.

Although, having said that, cornering speeds keep going up, and thats where the cars are going to come undone, not on the straights. So while the engine limitations are the easiest options to regulate, they aren't the best.

And don't get me started on that engine freeze, and Mosely saying "The engines are developed enough anyway".

If KERS becomes like a push to pass system that we saw in Champ Car, then I don't really want to see it in F1.

Doesn't do jack all for the road industry, since the answer to environmental sustainability in automobile isn't hybrid electric cars (powered by smug).

[PolePosition_1]

How much do restrictor plates cost?

Using both the reasoning of cost cutting and lowering speed (neither of which have worked), Mosely and Purnell should've decided to use restrictor plates on the 3L V10. Then theres relatively no expendature on R&D, and F1 would be equally as safe.

Although, having said that, cornering speeds keep going up, and thats where the cars are going to come undone, not on the straights. So while the engine limitations are the easiest options to regulate, they aren't the best.

And don't get me started on that engine freeze, and Mosely saying "The engines are developed enough anyway".

If KERS becomes like a push to pass system that we saw in Champ Car, then I don't really want to see it in F1.

Doesn't do jack all for the road industry, since the answer to environmental sustainability in automobile isn't hybrid electric cars (powered by smug).


Yeah I agree with you, I think it was a bad idea.

I'm just trying to point out there two sides to every story.

I'm not really knowledgable enough on the engine aspect of this to know the reasons of having a V8 or V10 with restrictions.

Maybe a V8 is cheaper to build? I honestly don't have a clue, albeit I'm sure there must be some reason behind it. Whether it be a good reason or not I don't know :) .

[Knock-on]

So, when Max goes on about cost reduction in F1.

Then he lumbers teams with additional development expected to cost up to 10% worth of their budget.

Then he claim he’s looking for cost saving.

Sorry, getting dizzy, need to lay down.

[ShiftingGears]

Yeah I agree with you, I think it was a bad idea.

I'm just trying to point out there two sides to every story.

I'm not really knowledgable enough on the engine aspect of this to know the reasons of having a V8 or V10 with restrictions.

Maybe a V8 is cheaper to build? I honestly don't have a clue, albeit I'm sure there must be some reason behind it. Whether it be a good reason or not I don't know :) .

I don't see how the production of V8 engines, on top of the R&D costs, would be any cheaper than sticking with the V10's. The same reason as I don't think KERS expenditure will be any cheaper than allowing engine developments. Because by competition, the F1 engineers work to have less fuel used up in going as fast as possible, so that their cars will be lighter.


Purnell was pushing a stupid idea and Mosely went with it. So somehow, the FIA managed to take the easy way out, the hard way.

[PolePosition_1]

I don't see how the production of V8 engines, on top of the R&D costs, would be any cheaper than sticking with the V10's. The same reason as I don't think KERS expenditure will be any cheaper than allowing engine developments. Because by competition, the F1 engineers work to have less fuel used up in going as fast as possible, so that their cars will be lighter.


Purnell was pushing a stupid idea and Mosely went with it. So somehow, the FIA managed to take the easy way out, the hard way.

Yeah, but KERS technology can be adapted to roadcars, whereas engine development won't, I can't see normal road cars having V8s producing 800 horsepower or going to 19,000rpm.

But I can see roadcars recycling energy.

So KERS is making F1 more relevant, a greener sport and as I've stated in my disagreement with Mr Walker, KERS is at the very beginning of its lifespan, who knows how it will develop in 10-15 years time.

For example, mobile phones today have a CPU as powerful as laptops did back in the year 2000!!

I'm not making a direct comparison, but who would have thought that about mobile phones 8 years ago.

Or look at battery life of certain technologies, well considering how new KERS is, who is to say how it'll evolve, considering its green credentials and the green global movement, it can only be a positive that F1 will be one of the leading industries in this area.

And sure the costs will be high compared to the returns in the short term. But with restrictions on engines and aero, teams are just going to invest their resources somewhere else. What better than to encourage teams to invest in something so positive and relevant.

The fact that Red Bull is the only team to have been openly negative about it, I think F1 teams, including independent teams realise this. And even then Red Bull haven't said they're against KERS altogether, they've just said its not as relevant to them as some manufactors, but then niether is making F1 cars!!

[ShiftingGears]

Yeah, but KERS technology can be adapted to roadcars, whereas engine development won't, I can't see normal road cars having V8s producing 800 horsepower or going to 19,000rpm.

The rev-limiting rule is also a stupid one that the FIA have introduced.


But I can see roadcars recycling energy.

Yes, but not at the energy levels of Formula one. The same way that engines won't be taken to extremes in road cars as in Formula One.

As long as KERS doesn't take away from the spectacle and descend into push-to pass gimmicks, I will be fine with it.

[PolePosition_1]

The rev-limiting rule is also a stupid one that the FIA have introduced.



Yes, but not at the energy levels of Formula one. The same way that engines won't be taken to extremes in road cars as in Formula One.

As long as KERS doesn't take away from the spectacle and descend into push-to pass gimmicks, I will be fine with it.

Surely the rev limit and restrictor plates are based on same principles?

Yes but I do think KERS will be developed into roadcars, because unlike engines its a new technology.

When traction control first came around in F1, it was eventually passed down to road cars, as was the paddle gear shifting etc.

KERS is a technology which can be adapted to road cars.

[markabilly]

Quick update for Markability or whoever it was who was going on a moral high ground, saying Max was displaying signs of an axe murderer etc etc (along them lines) because he enjoyed S&M.

Though he has failed to reply to my last few posts, have another interesting fact for him.

In the new UK Sex Report for 2008, 1/3 of people admitted to enjoying this S&M.

Does that mean we have 20 million people who are "perverts" in this country? As you defined Max.

Or your comments such as ""The Sadistic Personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of gratuitous cruelty, aggression, and demeaning behaviors which indicate the existence of deep-seated contempt for other people and an utter lack of empathy. Some sadists are "utilitarian": they leverage their explosive violence to establish a position of unchallenged dominance within a relationship. Unlike psychopaths, they rarely use physical force in the commission of crimes. Rather, their aggressiveness is embedded in an interpersonal context and is expressed in social settings, such as the family or the workplace. "

or

"Sadists are masters of abuse by proxy and ambient abuse. They terrorize and intimidate even their nearest and dearest into doing their bidding. They create an aura and atmosphere of unmitigated yet diffuse dread and consternation. This they achieve by promulgating complex "rules of the house" that restrict the autonomy of their dependants (spouses, children, employees, patients, clients, etc.). They have the final word and are the ultimate law. They must be obeyed, no matter how arbitrary and senseless are their rulings and decisions. "

the fact that 33% of brits are just as sick as MaX comes as no surprize....
That would mean there is a 1 out of 3 chance that merry old maXie's judge was just as sick as 33% of the brits :D

In any even the so called "studies" which are just simple surveys and polls, while interesting, have nothing to do with nothing. In high school, at the age of 16, the entire state decided to study the extent of alcohol abuse by my peers. The resultant survey as a result of answers to a quiz, demonstrated beyond contestation, that out of 320 atudents, close to 80% consumed three or more beers in the one hour before we came to school on an average day. Of course we all knew that was not true, but we had fun answering the questions. Nevertheless, despite the fact that such an intake was impossible (and should have been obvious cause none of us had that kind of access or money, or it might well have been true), we had an emergency massive on campus effort to consel all of of us alcoholics. Only problem was no body was showing up with any beer on the breath....

Besides there is so-called s and m involving some gentle bonding and stuff in the bedroom some folks mistakenly think is some perversion, (and being that Brits are a nation of whimps, easy to understand :D )

and then there is the type of sadistic abuse involving beating the butt until it bleeds, complex role play involving an apartment that costs a mere $70k per year to rent, with 5 whores or more at $10k per party, uniforms and stuff, with thermometers up the butt, shaving gentials and the rest of the stuff that comes with a 40 year addiction, all as described by max.......

These painful butt beatings, complex role play and the other behavior is why it is saddistic abuse, where the instigator, from fear of being convicted and imprisoned in a real prison, is acting out stuff that demonstrates what you have in bold quotes ........... :(

[Rollo]

Yeah, but KERS technology can be adapted to roadcars, whereas engine development won't, I can't see normal road cars having V8s producing 800 horsepower or going to 19,000rpm.

This forum came to the collective decision that F1 does not contribute to road technology in this thread:
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120656

:D Blaze away

[ShiftingGears]

Surely the rev limit and restrictor plates are based on same principles?

The rev limit was to stop engines breaking (I believe...), and it inhibits passing opportunities, because the rev limit can't be exceeded when slipstreaming another car. The rev limit was IMO a stupid move.


Yes but I do think KERS will be developed into roadcars, because unlike engines its a new technology.

When traction control first came around in F1, it was eventually passed down to road cars, as was the paddle gear shifting etc.

KERS is a technology which can be adapted to road cars.

Yes, KERS can be adapted to road cars, but so can(could) minor engine technologies/advancements in F1. Like in KERS, the conditions are taken to extremes, so we don't really know how beneficial KERS will be.

Besides, the aim of F1 with the KERS systems is to appear environmentally friendly so the management can justify the existence of a series that expends fossil fuels in the wake of increasing environmental awareness.

[PolePosition_1]

the fact that 33% of brits are just as sick as MaX comes as no surprize....
That would mean there is a 1 out of 3 chance that merry old maXie's judge was just as sick as 33% of the brits :D

In any even the so called "studies" which are just simple surveys and polls, while interesting, have nothing to do with nothing. In high school, at the age of 16, the entire state decided to study the extent of alcohol abuse by my peers. The resultant survey as a result of answers to a quiz, demonstrated beyond contestation, that out of 320 atudents, close to 80% consumed three or more beers in the one hour before we came to school on an average day. Of course we all knew that was not true, but we had fun answering the questions. Nevertheless, despite the fact that such an intake was impossible (and should have been obvious cause none of us had that kind of access or money, or it might well have been true), we had an emergency massive on campus effort to consel all of of us alcoholics. Only problem was no body was showing up with any beer on the breath....

Besides there is so-called s and m involving some gentle bonding and stuff in the bedroom some folks mistakenly think is some perversion, (and being that Brits are a nation of whimps, easy to understand :D )

and then there is the type of sadistic abuse involving beating the butt until it bleeds, complex role play involving an apartment that costs a mere $70k per year to rent, with 5 whores or more at $10k per party, uniforms and stuff, with thermometers up the butt, shaving gentials and the rest of the stuff that comes with a 40 year addiction, all as described by max.......

These painful butt beatings, complex role play and the other behavior is why it is saddistic abuse, where the instigator, from fear of being convicted and imprisoned in a real prison, is acting out stuff that demonstrates what you have in bold quotes ........... :(

Not only are you basing your opinions on assumptions (such as the Official UK Sex Report 2008 is all wrong in its infromation, and your basing that on a survey they carried out at your uiniversity).

But then your also judging people on to the extent in which "beating" is good and bad.

Firstly, comparing an official UK report to a survey carried out at a university campus is slightly inaccurate.

And secondly, you assuming the survey is about light S&M and not hardcore S&M sessions like Max had. That said, I don't particularly understand how you think full on S&M is sadistic, but light S&M is not. At end of the day they all based on domination and pain. Considering they're coming from same principles, surely they should both be sadistic under you theory?

But basically your basing your opinion fully on assumptions, and optimistic ones at that!

Your entitled to your opinion, but as I've said already, your opinion is one opinion, you shouldn't and gladly haven't got any right to decides someones future based on your morals. Because they're totally subjective.

[PolePosition_1]

This forum came to the collective decision that F1 does not contribute to road technology in this thread:
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120656

:D Blaze away

Lol - yeah but all due respect you cannot decide that!

Its totally subjective.

My opinion is that it does. Obviously it doesn't directly follow through to road cars.

But its a developing and evolving process.

Maybe the argument would stand for normal family cars, but with sports cars there is a definate indirect link in my opinion.

And for me KERS is similar, however has potential to impact all roadcars, because all road cars want to become more efficient and greener.

But to be fair, you've all made good arguments and I can definately see why you have these opinions and I respect them, albeit disagree :)

[markabilly]

Not only are you basing your opinions on assumptions (such as the Official UK Sex Report 2008 is all wrong in its infromation, and your basing that on a survey they carried out at your uiniversity).

But then your also judging people on to the extent in which "beating" is good and bad.

Firstly, comparing an official UK report to a survey carried out at a university campus is slightly inaccurate.

And secondly, you assuming the survey is about light S&M and not hardcore S&M sessions like Max had. That said, I don't particularly understand how you think full on S&M is sadistic, but light S&M is not. At end of the day they all based on domination and pain. Considering they're coming from same principles, surely they should both be sadistic under you theory?

But basically your basing your opinion fully on assumptions, and optimistic ones at that!

Your entitled to your opinion, but as I've said already, your opinion is one opinion, you shouldn't and gladly haven't got any right to decides someones future based on your morals. Because they're totally subjective.
fantasies and poeple reporting are not the same as actual role play involving a beating that delivers blood. Engaging in some rough sex play is not the same as rape and i could go on and on. What you obviously don't get, like many with such attitudes, is that laws are just a collection of morals imposed upon a group of people. In a republican form of government, those morals to be imposed are somewhat voted on. In a dictatorship, those morals are made law by the actions of the dictator.

Bottom line is that NO they are not all sadistic abuse, inted to humilate and degrade the person based on race and sex

[markabilly]

Not only are you basing your opinions on assumptions (such as the Official UK Sex Report 2008 is all wrong in its infromation, and your basing that on a survey they carried out at your uiniversity).

But then your also judging people on to the extent in which "beating" is good and bad.

Firstly, comparing an official UK report to a survey carried out at a university campus is slightly inaccurate.

And secondly, you assuming the survey is about light S&M and not hardcore S&M sessions like Max had. That said, I don't particularly understand how you think full on S&M is sadistic, but light S&M is not. At end of the day they all based on domination and pain. Considering they're coming from same principles, surely they should both be sadistic under you theory?

But basically your basing your opinion fully on assumptions, and optimistic ones at that!

Your entitled to your opinion, but as I've said already, your opinion is one opinion, you shouldn't and gladly haven't got any right to decides someones future based on your morals. Because they're totally subjective.
And I would add that it is not merely an opinion based on my morals,. You seem to have forgotten that even the judge had to admit the law was broken, but wormed his way around it in typical lawyer fashion.

And the real question is not whther it was a law but the character and conduct as being an indication of continued future conduct. Upon that basis, Maxie has failed all those expectations held by people who are not engaging in hypocrisy

[Knock-on]

And I would add that it is not merely an opinion based on my morals,. You seem to have forgotten that even the judge had to admit the law was broken, but wormed his way around it in typical lawyer fashion.

And the real question is not whther it was a law but the character and conduct as being an indication of continued future conduct. Upon that basis, Maxie has failed all those expectations held by people who are not engaging in hypocrisy

I must say that Max hasn't failed my expectations, merely confirmed them :D

[PolePosition_1]

fantasies and poeple reporting are not the same as actual role play involving a beating that delivers blood. Engaging in some rough sex play is not the same as rape and i could go on and on. What you obviously don't get, like many with such attitudes, is that laws are just a collection of morals imposed upon a group of people. In a republican form of government, those morals to be imposed are somewhat voted on. In a dictatorship, those morals are made law by the actions of the dictator.

Bottom line is that NO they are not all sadistic abuse, inted to humilate and degrade the person based on race and sex


But who are you to say in the report its about fantasises, and not actual role play?

How do you know this?

Yes at the end of the day, laws are just a set of standards based upon societies acceptance.

But they're also a set of rules which disregard religion, race, sex, cultural differences and most importantly respect everyones humans rights.

So to call them morals I would disagree. Because our morals tend to be based on exactly the things the law disregards.

And at end of the day Max didn't break any laws in the eyes of the court. Technically he did, in same way dropping litter on floor, but matter was so minor, not even worth bringing up, as mentioned by the judge.

[PolePosition_1]

And I would add that it is not merely an opinion based on my morals,. You seem to have forgotten that even the judge had to admit the law was broken, but wormed his way around it in typical lawyer fashion.

And the real question is not whther it was a law but the character and conduct as being an indication of continued future conduct. Upon that basis, Maxie has failed all those expectations held by people who are not engaging in hypocrisy

Markabilly, are you saying that Max should lose his job because technically he broke the law?

Or are you saying he should lose his job because of his actions he done in private and cannot be arrested or even punished for because it was such a minor incident. You can get punished £30 for dropping litter, you can't be punished at all for what Max did, that how minor it was.

And I don't quite understand how you can say he was let people down, he won a vote of confidence, from FIA members around the globe, with varying cultures and views on his actions. And yet he still won.

Also, I must ask but when you say "What you obviously don't get, like many with such attitudes" - what attitudes do you think I have?