NASCAR to drop horsepower in Toyotas ?

[jslone]

I saw it on Nascar now and do not have a link yet,but bascially Marty Smith is saying that effective this weekend Nascar well drop the horsepower from toyotas to make them more level.Also he has said that the new engine on toyotas were approved by Nascar at the start of the year.If they new about the increase in hp,then why have not Chevy,Ford and DOdge upped their horsepower?

[RaceFanStan]

The adjustment is for the Nationwide Series ONLY.
NASCAR ordered all the Toyota motors to use a smaller restrictor that will knock down 15 horsepower in the motors ...

http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/bg/07/23/engine.rule.amendment/index.html

(This ruling should be called the Joe Gibbs Rule) ;)

[Jonesi]

I saw it on Nascar now and do not have a link yet,but bascially Marty Smith is saying that effective this weekend Nascar well drop the horsepower from toyotas to make them more level.Also he has said that the new engine on toyotas were approved by Nascar at the start of the year.If they new about the increase in hp,then why have not Chevy,Ford and DOdge upped their horsepower?

Current Chevy, Ford and Dodge NW engines are at the end of their development life. Chevy has a new motor in Cup but aren't able to run it in NW yet. Dodge has a new motor that should be on track in a couple of months. Roush's Ford motors were 3rd & 4th best of the 10.When their new motors get to NW they too will have the limiter.
Some/most of that hp advantage that Toyotas have, may have been gained in the last few months since the season started, since it's still early in the deveopment cycle.

[jslone]

Right on Stan.Thats what it should be called.

[Sparky1329]

The adjustment is for the Nationwide Series ONLY.
NASCAR ordered all the Toyota motors to use a smaller restrictor that will knock down 15 horsepower in the motors ...

http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/bg/07/23/engine.rule.amendment/index.html

(This ruling should be called the Joe Gibbs Rule) ;)

If Mark Cronquist could be cloned everybody could have one. :D

[jeffmr2]

Why didnt nascar do a similar thing in last years nextel cup series to the Hendrick COT when it had a significant performance advantage?
What will they do next week make Kyle Busch drive one handed because he is the best driver?
It seems wrong to me for toyota to be penalised when they havent broken any rule,is the problem that it is a toyota and not a chevy winning?

[call_me_andrew]

I think this is the dumbest move NASCAR has made since the common template. Limiting downforce is one thing, but now they're essentially making a horsepower cap. They're literally penalizing Toyota for building a more efficent engine than anyone else can build. I want to see the brands compete, not the flunkies at the wheel.

And for the record, this is comming from a Ford fan.

[colinspooky]

how about limit speeds to a safe-ish 100mph and tie all the cars together so they can't overtake keeping them in grid order picked from a hat each week.

Mind you if one driver get picked for pole a lot, they may need a change in hat design so ensure the pick is fairer.

Maybe

[RaceFanStan]

NASCAR has set a bad president ...
research & develop your engines but don't get them too strong ...
NASCAR implemented the common template car ...
can a common template engine be from behind ? :s
(I fear that would mean a "crate engine" furnished or strictly controlled by NASCAR.) :s

(It has always been to build a car better than the competiton but now the rules are changing) :s

I say good for Toyota, they got a short-lived horsepower edge on the competition.
Ford & Chevy would have caught up but now they don't have to. :s

[Sparky1329]

NASCAR does a lot of stupid things. This is one of the most stupid things they've ever done.

[RaceFanStan]

"Build a better mousetrap & the world will beat a path to your door" (unless you are in NASCAR !!!) http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Toyota just got SCREWED :!: http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/eek.gif http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif

[harvick#1]

NASCAR does a lot of stupid things. This is one of the most stupid things they've ever done.

no, putting Brian in charge was the dumbest thing they've ever done :mark:

[Sparky1329]

no, putting Brian in charge was the dumbest thing they've ever done :mark:

Yeah, that would rank right up at the top.

[tkg26 96789]

You only have to look at what happened to CART during the Plenum issue when Honda got pissed off used it as a excuse to pull-out. In hindsight, maybe this is Toyota bad karma coming back to bite them in the arse.

Back in 1994....Honda was upset in June when, after Toyota lodged a complaint, CART ruled that an airflow design in the engine plenum, used by both Honda and Ford to increase horsepower, was not in the spirit of the rules, and implemented the infamous pop-off valve spacer.

Which caused Honda to leave CART...."Over the past months CART has implemented engine rules changes that run counter to long established regulations that govern engine rules stability," Elliott said. "These actions are a clear indication that Honda can no longer put its trust in the CART rule book or those who administer it."

[Lee Roy]

You only have to look at what happened to CART during the Plenum issue when Honda got pissed off used it as a excuse to pull-out. In hindsight, maybe this is Toyota bad karma coming back to bite them in the arse.

Back in 1994....Honda was upset in June when, after Toyota lodged a complaint, CART ruled that an airflow design in the engine plenum, used by both Honda and Ford to increase horsepower, was not in the spirit of the rules, and implemented the infamous pop-off valve spacer.

Which caused Honda to leave CART...."Over the past months CART has implemented engine rules changes that run counter to long established regulations that govern engine rules stability," Elliott said. "These actions are a clear indication that Honda can no longer put its trust in the CART rule book or those who administer it."

CART sucked and was destined to die no matter what happened.

[SoCalPVguy]

CART sucked and was destined to die no matter what happened.

That may (or may not) be true, but if you do not think Toyota wil bail out after a few more things like this happen in NASCAR, you are kidding yourself.

[Lee Roy]

So I guess that folks here must also not like the ALMS, Le Mans, The Speed Touring and GT Series and the various European Touring Car series, eh?

[call_me_andrew]

So I guess that folks here must also not like the ALMS, Le Mans, The Speed Touring and GT Series and the various European Touring Car series, eh?

There's a difference here. The engines here are already built with idential displacement, cylinder head flow rates, and combustion chamber size. It's a fine line between trying to produce similar horsepower by handicapping engines of differentdesign, and handicapping engines of similar design.

[Lee Roy]

There's a difference here. The engines here are already built with idential displacement, cylinder head flow rates, and combustion chamber size. It's a fine line between trying to produce similar horsepower by handicapping engines of differentdesign, and handicapping engines of similar design.

I agree, to a point. And I'm also glad that someone here understands that adjusting between manufacturers in sedan and sports car series is standard practice.

But from what I'm reading, the problem is that the Toyota engine block is a later evolution than the other manufacturers are allowed to use in the Nationwide Series (with a wider bore which allows the engine to spin a little higher). If NASCAR would let the Fords and Chevy's use their Cup blocks (which, unless I'm mistaken Toyota uses) instead of restricting the Toyota engine, that would probably be a better solution.

[Jag_Warrior]

CART sucked and was destined to die no matter what happened.

I think destiny is like luck, you tend to make your own. Only when it thumbed its nose at its TV partner at that time, its manufacturers, sponsors, promoters and fans was it "destined" to die. All that CART had to do was the same thing that NASCAR has to do: satisfy the expectations of its stakeholders. CART imploded only when it stopped doing that.

As for "sucking", including Formula One, no open wheel series has ever produced the TV ratings and sponsor value in the U.S. that CART did. If the IRL could manage to suck as well as CART did, its TV ratings would be season average of 2.0+, rather than .95 (where it was last year).

Considering the shape that GM, Ford and Chrysler are in, if I was Brian France, I wouldn't pee on Toyota too much. Destiny isn't known to play favorites. ;)

[harvick#1]

So I guess that folks here must also not like the ALMS, Le Mans, The Speed Touring and GT Series and the various European Touring Car series, eh?

of course not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXrsmH_qXOY

ahh, the delicate sound of thunder :D

[RaceFanStan]

NASCAR attempted to squelch the Toyotas in the Nationwide Series ...

Kyle Busch jumped in his Joe Gibbs Racing Toyota & said "in your face NASCAR !"

.
Nationwide Series Race 22 @ IRP Winner
01. Kyle Busch #18 Toyota http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

[Lee Roy]

If I were Toyota, I'd get some ads out there right away saying we won with one arm tied behind our back.

[RaceFanStan]

I have to admit that I enjoyed Kyle Busch taking his TOYOTA to the front. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif
Not only did Kyle Busch win the Nationwide Series race @ IRP, he DOMINATED it ! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif
Kyle Busch started 2nd & led 197 of the 200 laps scoring his 6th Nationwide Series victory of 2008. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif
Kyle Busch is 7th in Nationwide Series points even with running a partial schedule !

(NOTE : Kyle Busch also has 7 wins in Cup & currently leads the Cup points standings ...
Kyle Busch has 2 wins in Trucks running a partial schedule ...
that is a total of 15 wins in the top 3 NASCAR series so far in 2008 ...
ALL of them in TOYOTAS !!!) http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif

The Toyotas are good & they have one hellofa driver in Kyle Busch !!! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif

[jslone]

As much as I respect Jack ROush,hes an ass on this and got what he deserved,which is Kyle winning,hopefully he will win the nationwide title this year just to rub it in.

[pdalbey]

As much as I respect Jack ROush,hes an ass on this and got what he deserved,which is Kyle winning,hopefully he will win the nationwide title this year just to rub it in.

I agree. After reading this article: http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/nationwide-roush-happy-with-nascars-decision-on-toyota-engines/, I think Roush got exactly what he deserved.

[harvick#1]

actually if not for the 18, the field was leveled, it was great to see new faces up there at ORP, and while cautions fell to Busch way, Carl had the best car and would've won, to come from 3 down, passing Kyle twice, and to finish 11th in under 100 laps, about 20 under caution is pretty damn good

[pdalbey]

That was pretty impressive to see Carl fight back from 3 laps down, I think with something like 60 laps to go, to almost get a top 10. Kudos to him.