Kimi's lack to testing

[hatrix]

Hi all, I have been reading here for a long time. First time posting.
I am a loyal Kimi fan since his days in Mclaren. I was a Mclaren fan during the time when Mika Hakkinen was there up until Kimi moved to Ferrari. Then I realized that I am actually a Kimi/Mika fan, and not a manufacture's fan.

Anyways, nevermind my history. It saddens me to see Kimi being slow struggling to get pass other cars. I am not just talking about the last race. Even in his Mclaren days, he usually is not very aggressive (like Alonso/Massa/Hamilton). He usually stays back (or just not fast enough) and attacks only once and make it work. I have a feeling that it is down to set up which himself and many would agree.

My main point is, I have noticed for a long time that he usually has very low number of laps during testing, if not the least of all the driver testing in a testing day. Does anyone know why he tests with so few laps? It seems he always get the set up wrong or imperfect, and make his qualifying and passing bad.

[wedge]

There's a variety of reasons.

It's quite clear he hates testing. He'd rather let the other drivers do the donkey work and if he likes a particular new part after a few laps he'll try it out for GP, let alone testing.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/2304854/Kimi-R%C3%A4ikk%C3%B6nen-life-in-the-fast-lane.html

Dyer worked with Michael Schumacher, who won five of his seven world titles with Ferrari. 'Kimi is more relaxed than Michael, and less concerned about technical details. If we turn up with a new part, Kimi will say, "Let's throw it on and see what happens"; Michael would have wanted to know what the simulation tests said. What you see is what you get with Kimi: he never plays games. But on the track, he is very strong mentally. He is not affected by pressure.'

Essentially Kimi is his own man, there's stories of him saying he's demotivated with the outside pressures of Grand Prix racing such as testing, PR and his privacy, rumours of retiring early from F1.

I'm a huge admirer of Kimi but as with the likes of Mansell (my all time hero) he clearly isn't the full package of Prost, Senna, Schumi et al. As much as I respect that he is his own man I can't help but think if he applies himself a bit better.

[mstillhere]

Hi all, I have been reading here for a long time. First time posting.
I am a loyal Kimi fan since his days in Mclaren. I was a Mclaren fan during the time when Mika Hakkinen was there up until Kimi moved to Ferrari. Then I realized that I am actually a Kimi/Mika fan, and not a manufacture's fan.

Anyways, nevermind my history. It saddens me to see Kimi being slow struggling to get pass other cars. I am not just talking about the last race. Even in his Mclaren days, he usually is not very aggressive (like Alonso/Massa/Hamilton). He usually stays back (or just not fast enough) and attacks only once and make it work. I have a feeling that it is down to set up which himself and many would agree.

My main point is, I have noticed for a long time that he usually has very low number of laps during testing, if not the least of all the driver testing in a testing day. Does anyone know why he tests with so few laps? It seems he always get the set up wrong or imperfect, and make his qualifying and passing bad.

Hi,
I am actually a team fan, mainly because drivers (Ok, pilots) come and go, teams stay (especially Ferrar). I like Kimi too and he puzzles me to see him under performing. To me he seems like the little engine the never could. Last year was the huge exception, but generally speaking he seems to have his little cloud following him around. When he was at McLAren he was not too happy, since his car would often break down. At Ferrari, I think, he is not too happy because he cannot have the car settings the way he likes them. Somebody wrote here, and it could be true, that Massa has a say about the car settings, and when MS shows up, it's even worse Since Massa can adapt better at MS's driving style then Kimi. I think kimi was able to win last year only because Massa was out of the contention and Ferrari must have gone out of their way to ready the car just like Kimi wanted it. I think this year could be the same, provided that Massa would be out contention like last year. I only hope that he would not be too late.

[Valve Bounce]

Big Welcome to this forum. Did you know that you will qualify for the lucky draw for a Ferrari when you reach 1000 posts? The draw will be made when everyone reaches 1000 posts.

[hatrix]

lol, that's nice. What do you mean "when everyone reaches 1000 votes"? You mean every single member of the forum? >: D That's gonna take a looonng time

[Valve Bounce]

lol, that's nice. What do you mean "when everyone reaches 1000 votes"? You mean every single member of the forum? >: D That's gonna take a looonng time

Worth waiting for. :D
Hope to see you posting here a lot more

[leopard]

The lucky draw do not apply for lurker, member should post their message directly once visit forum for the first time.

Not sure that you can claim the prize.

[ioan]

Somebody wrote here, and it could be true, that Massa has a say about the car settings...

Do you really believe that Massa is the one deciding the developpment dirction at Ferrari? You think that Ferrari would put their very highly paid WDC driver at a disadvantage in order to support Massa?!
Could you tell us why do you think this is the case?


and when MS shows up, it's even worse Since Massa can adapt better at MS's driving style then Kimi.

And what has the 2008 season car to do with MS diving style?! :rolleyes:

[ArrowsFA1]

Do you really believe that Massa is the one deciding the developpment dirction at Ferrari?
I don't think anyone believes that. The contribution of all F1 team drivers, including test drivers, is central to development and Ferrari is no different in that respect. (Do they just have Luca Badoer and MS sometimes, or is Marc Gene still with them?)

Where Felipe may have a perceived "advantage" is with MS's help and support within Ferrari, but as ioan says what is the point in employing Kimi only to disavantage him?

The loss of MS as a focus for the team may be having an effect. With a clear #1 driving development, and (importantly) producing the results, confidence is self-perpetuating. The moment there is doubt, or elements of the team question the input of one or more of the drivers, then Ferrari (or any team) may have problems and both Kimi & Massa have certainly had problems in recent races.

Massa didn't seem to know why he struggled so much at Silverstone, and Kimi was at a loss to explain a lack of rear stability at Hockenheim. A lack of answers doesn't inspire confidence for the team or drivers.

There's a variety of reasons.

It's quite clear he hates testing. He'd rather let the other drivers do the donkey work and if he likes a particular new part after a few laps he'll try it out for GP, let alone testing.

Essentially Kimi is his own man, there's stories of him saying he's demotivated with the outside pressures of Grand Prix racing such as testing, PR and his privacy, rumours of retiring early from F1.

I'm a huge admirer of Kimi but as with the likes of Mansell (my all time hero) he clearly isn't the full package of Prost, Senna, Schumi et al. As much as I respect that he is his own man I can't help but think if he applies himself a bit better.



The loss of MS as a focus for the team may be having an effect. With a clear #1 driving development, and (importantly) producing the results, confidence is self-perpetuating. The moment there is doubt, or elements of the team question the input of one or more of the drivers, then Ferrari (or any team) may have problems and both Kimi & Massa have certainly had problems in recent races.

Both posts pretty much echo what I feel.

As a Ferrari fan, I find the percieved lack of direction and lack of leadership from Raikkonen to be the main problem.

Since he is on the same kind of retainer as Schumacher was, he should up his game to match the kind of input Schumi gave.

If not, I would give him his P45 and get Alonso in his seat, current WDC or not.

[Valve Bounce]

Both posts pretty much echo what I feel.

As a Ferrari fan, I find the percieved lack of direction and lack of leadership from Raikkonen to be the main problem.

Since he is on the same kind of retainer as Schumacher was, he should up his game to match the kind of input Schumi gave.

If not, I would give him his P45 and get Alonso in his seat, current WDC or not.

The personalities of the two are totally different. SchM was driven to turn a shyte car into a winner, whatever it took. Kimi is only interested in having a shyte. But both are very fast, and Kimi can be brilliant; once the car is sorted he is very, very fast.

[wedge]

The personalities of the two are totally different. SchM was driven to turn a shyte car into a winner, whatever it took. Kimi is only interested in having a shyte. But both are very fast, and Kimi can be brilliant; once the car is sorted he is very, very fast.

It's not down to personality. Ex-engineer Frank Dernie who's worked with both Senna and Schumi said that they're both introverts. Kimi is definitely introvert! Dernie has a theory that introverts have greater focus - Clark too was introvert.

Kimi can drive any car. The 2005 McLaren had loads of oversteer, how many drivers would've replicated Nurburgring and carried on pushing the car with a huge flat spot? the 06 car had tremendous understeer - that year he scored podiums in a car that probably didn't deserve to be on a podium whilst JPM was sulking, whilst PDLR struggled to keep up with Kimi.

It's down to work ethic. Schumi has greater attention to detail. Irvine and Dernie have blown the myth Schumi was a great test driver.

Schumi had the speed and talent next to Ronnie Peterson in that he could drive round the problem. Ferrari relied more on Badoer and Irvine in testing because if they made huge gains then they knew they were going the right way.

But Schumi had a methodical approach to testing and practice. He would banzai on his first flying lap which would be the benchmark and the rest of the day would be to work on set up and work development parts. If he beat the benchmark at the beginning of the day then he knew the car/team was going in the right direction.

Last year Kimi got the front wing that he wanted and brought back the championship. This year its almost as if its 'I've won a title, what is there left for me to do?'

BTW, I'm currently reading Michael Schumacher/Edge of Greatness by James Allen which is highly recommended. It's currently on a 3 for 2 offer at a well known British High Street bookstore....

[Roamy]

wedge
after you read the book why don't you tell us what it said. that way we won't have to read the book.

It is hard to know what is going on in the team. maybe kimi HAS told them what the problem is and they are getting it fixed. Yes they did spend some time grooming massa but apparently only on the dry tracks. I don't know if the current group has the same clout as brawn, byrne and the toad.

[hatrix]

It seems the downfall might be also related to Stefano Domenicali lack of experience as team boss. The team seems to be making a lot more amature mistakes (wrong tires, wrong strategies, etc). The car might have something to do with it as well. It seems Kimi is always plague with the "car only has a small margin for setup" nightmare where he has to get it perfect in setup each time or it is game over.

Anyone else find that he cannot follow other cars through a turn? For example, Hamilton and Massa are able to follow pretty closely with other cars to make a dive for a pass, whereas Kimi always seems to leave a big gap. I also find it hard to watch Kimi on safety car periods as he would always back off from the car in front of him, making him impossible to pass any car when the safety car pits.

[mstillhere]

Do you really believe that Massa is the one deciding the developpment dirction at Ferrari? You think that Ferrari would put their very highly paid WDC driver at a disadvantage in order to support Massa?!
Could you tell us why do you think this is the case?:

I truly hope not however I am very puzzeld by Kimi's lack of consistent performance, key to win a championship. In trying to cut him a slack, I'd like to think that maybe is Massa's fault. :)


And what has the 2008 season car to do with MS diving style?! :rolleyes:

Well, I have a feeling that Ferrari still leasten to what Schumi has to say (there must be a reason why Ferrari hire him to go to the track), and if that were to be the case, whatever Schumi says does not work for Kimi.

Of course this is all hypothetical, and never stated that what I am sayng are facts. Just trying to find an explanation for Kimi's not so bright performance.

[wedge]

It is hard to know what is going on in the team. maybe kimi HAS told them what the problem is and they are getting it fixed.


The car might have something to do with it as well. It seems Kimi is always plague with the "car only has a small margin for setup" nightmare where he has to get it perfect in setup each time or it is game over.

Very true, it may be that Ferrari have stalled in car development terms, probably a bit like BMW too.

Apologies for jumping the gun Schumi is possibly a one of a kind and has raised the bar.

We know what Kimi's capable of, he got the car to his liking last year and delivered the championship but his laissez-faire attitude isn't inspiring confidence.


Anyone else find that he cannot follow other cars through a turn? For example, Hamilton and Massa are able to follow pretty closely with other cars to make a dive for a pass, whereas Kimi always seems to leave a big gap.

Part of the problem is that he generally prefers to do longer stints, especially the first and then pit pass them. Very Schumi-esque in that he unleashes his raw speed when the car is light, a few laps just before he has to pit


I also find it hard to watch Kimi on safety car periods as he would always back off from the car in front of him, making him impossible to pass any car when the safety car pits.

That was one of Kimi's criticisms last year. I don't know why or what he's trying to achieve with that tactic but he has a habit of falling of asleep on restarts - Bahrain last year being one good example.

[Valve Bounce]

SchM was dedicated to the team. Kimi is dedicated to teh dunny.

[ArrowsFA1]

It's currently on a 3 for 2 offer at a well known British High Street bookstore....
What, you have to buy two copies of that book, and then they give you another one :crazy: :p

[Dave B]

Kimi's only 7 points behind Lewis; Ferrari are 16 points clear of BMW.

Any talk of a crisis at Ferrari or in Kimi's head are somewhat premature. They've had a couple of bum weekends, but I wouldn't be writing them off just yet. Only a few weeks ago people were saying that Lewis had lost the plot, now he leads the Championship, that's how quickly things can turn.

[Valve Bounce]

Kimi's only 7 points behind Lewis; Ferrari are 16 points clear of BMW.

Any talk of a crisis at Ferrari or in Kimi's head are somewhat premature. They've had a couple of bum weekends, but I wouldn't be writing them off just yet. Only a few weeks ago people were saying that Lewis had lost the plot, now he leads the Championship, that's how quickly things can turn.

Once they provide a workable dunny, Kimi will be fine.

[made_in_canada]

Big Welcome to this forum. Did you know that you will qualify for the lucky draw for a Ferrari when you reach 1000 posts? The draw will be made when everyone reaches 1000 posts.

Gosh darnnit, no one told me about the Ferrari draw... i better get started :D

[Jag_Warrior]

Gosh darnnit, no one told me about the Ferrari draw... i better get started :D

Screw the confidentiality agreement that Mark made me sign! I was the Ferrari "big winner" several years ago and here's what I got!
http://www.schumacher-fanclub.com/media/621954+ferrari+550+maranello+pedal+car.jpg

[ioan]

Keep pedaling! :D